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SteelersCanada
12-03-2012, 01:27 PM
I thought about doing another 'Key Things to Take Note of' thread, but doing it weekly seems a little redundant. I'll do one after week 17 and we have our playoff spot all locked up, as well as the AFC North. :wink02:

Instead, I decided to break down a couple of the key players and coaches from last night, including a couple of big surprises - both good and bad.

We Still Don't Have a Legitimate Running Back

Jonathan Dwyer - 16 Carries / 49 Yards - 3.0 YPC.

Those numbers won't cut it. I recognize that they sealed up the middle and didn't allow Dwyer to get any open lanes - but that's the problem in and of itself. Dwyer is a one dimensional runner that can't bounce it outside with any consistency and that showed last night. The Ravens' gameplan to stop our running backs was simple, but effective - clog the middle and make them bounce it outside. This is a team that had trouble stopping the run and yet had great success stopping Dwyer and Redman because they're not franchise running backs.

For our offense to really come together, a legitimate running back needs to be acquired. Whether this comes through the draft or free agency, a running back that Ben can hand off to and can make plays either at the line or behind it is necessary. Dwyer and Redman aren't capable of making these plays and Steelers brass has to recognize this.

Kelvin Beachum's Night Summed Up in One Word - Wow.

This kid - wow. Watching him single block Haloti Ngata three times last night was impressive. He opened lanes for Dwyer on his side, but the ineffective running was a big reason why the score was close. However, moving past that, the kid looked good. He looked as good as Adams did after 3 - 4 starts in the NFL in his first game. He made mistakes and looked like a rookie at times, but that's to be expected. The good outweighed the bad in this game, and he looks like he has a very, very high ceiling. The kid was impressive last night and showed why they kept him on the roster over guys like Ryan Lee, who were signed to the practice squad.

If this kid continues to improve, we're going to have too many good tackles and it'll be a fight for who starts - something that's new for this offensive line.

Ben Who?

Kidding. Come back soon, Ben. That being said ...

Charlie Batch's Night

I can't really put into words what Charlie's night was. All I can do is smile and shake my head. Completing 10 - 11 passes for 110 yards in the fourth quarter are Roethlisberger-like stats and these numbers were put up by a seasoned veteran. He showed that he has heart and the ability to make this team believe, giving them more of a reason to win. Batch's night was simply remarkable. His emotions after the game shows he truly has passion and heart left for this team and will do whatever it takes for them to win, because they're like a family to him. Him getting teary eyed got me a little misty, too.

If this was Batch's final bow, it was a memorable one. Thanks for all you've done, Charlie. Steeler Nation loves you more than you could know.

Mike Wallace, Emmanuel Sanders and Antonio Brown Are Only as Good as Each other

The first thing I'm going to acknowledge is the fact that we have three very good, very young and very explosive wide receivers on this team. The fact that they are together on this team makes this offense what it is and with Ben at the helm, they become the best trio of receivers in the NFL. Period.

That being said, they're only as good as one-another. It seems like if one struggles, the group does what it can to pick up the slack until all three are back on their game. Manny had a couple of drops - one of them was bigger than the other - but Wallace picked up the slack and caught two more balls - consecutively - after that. I don't know how many of you caught this, but on the sidelines Mikey and Brown were both there for Sanders after the open field fumble. They were making sure he didn't get too down on himself and his confidence stayed high and it worked. Sanders made a huge catch in the redzone to help set up Heath's touchdown reception.

These guys work together, and say what you will about Wallace, these guys are a unit. When Wallace had the sideline drop, Brown and Sanders both made big catches to respond.

Signing Mike Wallace and Emmanuel Sanders are absolute musts. Mike has struggled this year and as big as a Wallace fan I am, I won't deny this. He's adjusting to a new system and it's been like teething so far, but eventually he'll get it. Let's not forget the great receiver we have here because of a few drops - he's still great. Call his attitude or effort into question - with merit - but he's young. We can't simply let him go because he's having a tough year. Is he worth "Larry Fitzgerald money"? No, but the only proof we have of him asking this kind of money is ... well, we don't have any. We have no idea what he asked for in his contract, but I very much doubt he'll be turning down a 5 year / 50 million dollar deal should the Steelers offer him one again.

Max Starks is a Pro Bowl Left Tackle

Terrell who? That's what I was asking last night because Suggs was ineffective and quiet all game. He didn't do anything. Attribute this to him being injured, but I think it's much more likely that he was simply shut down by Starks who is in the midst of his best year in his career. I'd go as far to say that he's playing like a top 3 LT in all of football, protecting Charlie's and Ben's blindside all year so far. The fact he's not getting recognition is an absolute travesty. If anyone needs to see why he should get honored like this, throw on the Ravens game film. Horseface didn't do anything.

Our Defense Shut Down and Confused Joey All Night

Thank you, Cam Cameron, for not using Ray Rice. He was averaging 6.5 YPC, but instead thought it was a good idea for Flacco to throw it 34 times. Oh, how wonderful it is when OC's think they can outsmart LeBeau.

Joey had no idea what was going on. Sure, he hit a pretty deep ball to Boldin but one great pass isn't going to win you games. Playing sub-par all night and getting worked by an elite defense exposed Flacco for exactly what he is - an average quarterback that has moments of greatness. He was pressured all night and threw poor passes to receivers.

The next man up mantra in this defense is amazing. Ike goes down, and Cortez Allen has the best night of his career so far. He gave up a PI call (questionable) but made up for it with his great defense all night. Torrey Smith had 3 catches for 33 yards while playing against Allen - impressive numbers for a sophomore working against one of the better receivers in the AFC.

If there was one tiny dark spot on the defense, it was Jason Worilds. Before I get trashed, hear me out. Jason has an impeccable ability to get to the quarterback, but once he's there, he doesn't know what to do. This can be pointed to Joey's big frame (6'6, 245) but he had a clear shot on Joe which he missed and gave up an easy pass play. Mistakes like this can't be made from a second round pick - we expect more from our OLB's. Come back soon, Woodley.

Also, welcome back, Troy. We missed ya'.

Overall, Last Night Showed Me That We're Great

How many teams could beat a 9-2 team that had won 16 straight home games with a third string quarterback while missing their pro bowl OLB and (should be) CB? The Steelers are a resilient team and seem to play best when they're the underdog with everything to prove. This is a team that can achieve greatness, and we're starting to see this team take mold now.

Bring on San Diego. :tt:

steeltheone
12-03-2012, 01:57 PM
Dwyer was arm tackled several times on Sunday. No excuse for that !

ETL
12-03-2012, 02:08 PM
Let me add my 2 cents:

1. It looks as if we are ok even with Ike Taylor out for a few games. Lewis and Cortez Allen played very well yesterday.

2. Worilds looks very good out there. So did Harrison and even Hampton looks ok to play another year. Keisel was also motoring. I just wish I heard Hayward's name called more often. He's not been able to show much.

3. Troy P seemed limited. I feel as if he's only got 2 or 3 games a season where he can play with reckless abandonment. If so - save it for the playoffs

4. One of the reason that Batch was able to play well was because of the excellent performance of the OL. Pouncey was very effective at LG and Beechum was solid as a new starter at RG. Ramon Foster plays angry and max and legs are solid.

5. I hope mendenhall was motivated to get back on the field

6. Suisham - having one of the best season ever as a Steeler kicker

Darkstorm05
12-03-2012, 02:12 PM
Dwyer was arm tackled several times on Sunday. No excuse for that !

Dwyer also had another "I don't see a place to run so I'll just lay down now" thing going on. Not ready for prime time.

I agree with everything except Wallace. He hasn't shown anything to justify a 10 mil a year contract. Sorry, but he hasn't. I'd rate him in solid 4 mil territory. 6+ mil and I expect at a minimum the same effort Brown puts forth, every single game. Mike isn't even close. We can do better for cheaper.

tony hipchest
12-03-2012, 02:32 PM
good post.

steeler hater phil simms called cortez allen the best nickel corner in football. he also said it was probably the best defensive effort he has EVER seen when we thumped baltimore 2 weeks ago. rumors of our defensive demise were premature. theres alot of steelerfans im ashamed of for calling for dick lebeaus head (as if there is someone better we can scrape off the dung heap).

when james harrison is healthy he is worth every penny, and RIGHT NOW he is back to being a game changer that must be reconned with.

i swear, heath miller looks taller, leaner, and faster, than ever before.

if we had lost to the ravens, manny sanders would have been demonized on this board much like mike wallace and ike taylor had (or sweed and plexico in the past). that was a huge mistake. kudos for harrison bailing him out.

tomlin deserves credit for the win. he coached them up all week. it is true the steelers believe they can win every game, every week despite whos missing. they probably expect it to come easilly vs lesser opponents which explains playing flat, mistake ridden football.

very few penalties yesterday.

tony hipchest
12-03-2012, 02:36 PM
We can do better for cheaper.you think jerhico cotchery is better than mike wallace???

cause thats what you get for under 4 mil/year.

i can think of 31 other teams that would gladly pay mike wallace 6 million / year.

the market value is what it is, despite fans personal beefs with a player or "analysis" of their play.

StainlessStill
12-03-2012, 02:37 PM
Dwyer was arm tackled several times on Sunday. No excuse for that !

Kidding? You must have missed the plethora of plays where he steamrolled guys for extra yardage. His totals from last night were yards after contact. Must have missed his elusive touchdown run as well that tied the football game.

Did you see the middle of our offensive line completely FOLD on many occasions? They literally folded like a pancake in many instances. Dwyer broke many arm-tackles and simply doesn't go down after first contact.

Maybe I'm watching a different player.

Rotorhead
12-03-2012, 02:41 PM
Meh, I still like Redman better. I do wish we could run outside the tackles though, that was needed against the Ravens this week. I loved the fake screen to Heath, 2x that play has just killed it, and 2 different versions of it!

Darkstorm05
12-03-2012, 02:50 PM
you think jerhico cotchery is better than mike wallace???

cause thats what you get for under 4 mil/year.

i can think of 31 other teams that would gladly pay mike wallace 6 million / year.

the market value is what it is, despite fans personal beefs with a player or "analysis" of their play.

Uhhh....no? or it would have said "We can do better for cheaper, like Cotchery". If Wallace was fine with 6 mil a year from us, he wouldn't have held out this summer. What does he do that warrants 10 mil when we have Brown and Sanders for much cheaper? Do we really need 3 #1 quality WR's at that pricetag?

Ricco Suavez
12-03-2012, 02:52 PM
I posted in an earlier thread that I had only picked against the Steelers twice, once against Indy in 2005 and then this week. Did I lose faith either time? No. I was just picking what was to me the obvious pick at the time. Indy had spanked us earlier in the year and with the game at Indy and Peyton being Peyton I saw no chance of a win. We know what happened. Likewise this week after the Cleveland game and all the injuries and it being in Baltimore I felt we had no chance. Once again I am glad to say I was wrong. Even though I picked against my Steelers does not mean I had given up on them, I did not belittle in the forum the past few weeks. I feel this team can be dangerous come playoff time if we get healthy (a point I have reiterated several times over the course of this season),

I was reading the game day thread yesterday and I had to put my computer down I was so angry at some of the posts. I like to think I am a realist and while I tend to see the Steelers through B&G glasses I feel I am fair in my assessments. I also know injuries, luck, and momentum play a huge part in a teams success. It is not as simple as Tomlin Coaching harder or better, its not as simple as players playing harder. Every team in the NFL is loaded with the best talent in this game and the difference between the "Best" and the "Worst" is not that much. The Ravens have had more than their share of luck lately and we seem to have the injury bug, but there is no reason that we can't get healthy and turn our luck around. GO STEELERS!!!!:tt04:

Riddle_Of_Steel
12-03-2012, 02:58 PM
Charlie Batch's Night

I can't really put into words what Charlie's night was. All I can do is smile and shake my head. Completing 10 - 11 passes for 110 yards in the fourth quarter are Roethlisberger-like stats and these numbers were put up by a seasoned veteran. He showed that he has heart and the ability to make this team believe, giving them more of a reason to win. Batch's night was simply remarkable. His emotions after the game shows he truly has passion and heart left for this team and will do whatever it takes for them to win, because they're like a family to him. Him getting teary eyed got me a little misty, too.

If this was Batch's final bow, it was a memorable one. Thanks for all you've done, Charlie. Steeler Nation loves you more than you could know.

^^^^THIS.

Darkstorm05
12-03-2012, 03:07 PM
Did you see the middle of our offensive line completely FOLD on many occasions? They literally folded like a pancake in many instances. Dwyer broke many arm-tackles and simply doesn't go down after first contact.

Maybe I'm watching a different player.

I'm thinking you're watching a different player. 9 of Dwyer's runs either went for 1 yard, no gain, or negatives from -1 to -3. On 16 total rushes(Which has been pretty much his physical conditioning upper limit), that really isn't too impressive.

StainlessStill
12-03-2012, 03:16 PM
I'm thinking you're watching a different player. 9 of Dwyer's runs either went for 1 yard, no gain, or negatives from -1 to -3. On 16 total rushes(Which has been pretty much his physical conditioning upper limit), that really isn't too impressive.

You missed the part where most of those negatives were when Balty knew we were in running situations and the offensive line completed FOLDED inward. Sometimes Dwyer barely touched the ball and there were 3 Ravens in his face.

Don't exclude the fact that Dwyer made a helluva run with vision to the outside that tied the football game and when he did have room, was knocking guys over in one on one situations. Can't believe you are taking his overall numbers behind a makeshift o-line and excluding his touchdown run. That was hell of a lot impressive that deserves praise in a game where very few lanes were open.

WVABE
12-03-2012, 03:16 PM
Some of the play calls drove me nuts, 3rd and 3 and Charlie throws it 40 yards down field.
To me it doesn't matter whether it was caught or not, do that crap on 1st or 2nd down,
3rd downs are for attempting to get a 1st down.
I'm all in favor of making the punter a lonely sob.

Riddle_Of_Steel
12-03-2012, 03:18 PM
Charlie Batch's Night

I can't really put into words what Charlie's night was. All I can do is smile and shake my head. Completing 10 - 11 passes for 110 yards in the fourth quarter are Roethlisberger-like stats and these numbers were put up by a seasoned veteran. He showed that he has heart and the ability to make this team believe, giving them more of a reason to win. Batch's night was simply remarkable. His emotions after the game shows he truly has passion and heart left for this team and will do whatever it takes for them to win, because they're like a family to him. Him getting teary eyed got me a little misty, too.

If this was Batch's final bow, it was a memorable one. Thanks for all you've done, Charlie. Steeler Nation loves you more than you could know.

^^^^THIS.

Charlie literally willed his team to a win last night. The emotions at the end of the game were even enough to get me sniffly.

If this was his last dance, I can't think of a better way to send Charlie off to pasture.

Darkstorm05
12-03-2012, 03:25 PM
You missed the part where most of those negatives were when Balty knew we were in running situations and the offensive line completed FOLDED inward. Sometimes Dwyer barely touched the ball and there were 3 Ravens in his face.

Don't exclude the fact that Dwyer made a helluva run with vision to the outside that tied the football game and when he did have room, was knocking guys over in one on one situations. Can't believe you are taking his overall numbers behind a makeshift o-line and excluding his touchdown run. That was hell of a lot impressive that deserves praise in a game where very few lanes were open.

Why not? If someone points out that Mendenhall has had multiple 1000+ yard seasons, the Dwyer fans say that doesn't count because...well, just because. This forum is littered with posts saying Dwyer doesn't need blocking because he's all yards after contact. The very post I was quoting said all of his yards came after contact, so he "Wins", essentially. Yet now here we are, hearing that those other runs don't count, because he was taking contact. mendy was behind that line you say fell apart for his entire career, but everyone wants to discount his accomplishments. So which is it? Which runs count...only the ones where he makes positive yardage?

That's an entire 9 out of 16 total carries or over 50% of his body of work you'd like thrown out to try and prove he's awesome? if he were that great shouldn't he be able to show it without needing to chop apart his numbers to get rid of all the stuff his fans don't like?

Darkstorm05
12-03-2012, 03:26 PM
Some of the play calls drove me nuts, 3rd and 3 and Charlie throws it 40 yards down field.
To me it doesn't matter whether it was caught or not, do that crap on 1st or 2nd down,
3rd downs are for attempting to get a 1st down.
I'm all in favor of making the punter a lonely sob.

That Bomb on 3rd and short, and that silly trick play where we had a WR passing were big head scratchers. No need for either of those plays.

StainlessStill
12-03-2012, 03:40 PM
Why not? If someone points out that Mendenhall has had multiple 1000+ yard seasons, the Dwyer fans say that doesn't count because...well, just because. This forum is littered with posts saying Dwyer doesn't need blocking because he's all yards after contact. The very post I was quoting said all of his yards came after contact, so he "Wins", essentially. Yet now here we are, hearing that those other runs don't count, because he was taking contact. mendy was behind that line you say fell apart for his entire career, but everyone wants to discount his accomplishments. So which is it? Which runs count...only the ones where he makes positive yardage?

That's an entire 9 out of 16 total carries or over 50% of his body of work you'd like thrown out to try and prove he's awesome? if he were that great shouldn't he be able to show it without needing to chop apart his numbers to get rid of all the stuff his fans don't like?

Listen, I seriously don't know what you're talking about in your first couple sentence's to this debate. That looks to be another argument in itself so I'm not even going to try and break it down.

Why are you bringing Mendenhall in the fold and where are you getting we don't appreciate his accomplishments? Again irrelevant to my point.

Since you want to include Mendenhall for whatever reason, was Dwyer's performance against the Ravens ground-breaking last night? No, but he did make a splash play that I've never seen Menenhall make against the Ravens and when he did have the opportunity on one on one circumstances, he welcomes the contact, unlike Mendenhall, who wants to turn his back.

There was LITTLE to NO lanes last night for Dwyer to run through but he did have a handful of one on one's where he didn't go down on first contact situations.

Also, his vision on that T.D run was virtually the difference in the game (arguably) because Ray Rice countered with a long TD run of his own. Dwyer didn't have the stats, but he made the runs he needed to make in key situations and I'll take that all day long.

Darkstorm05
12-03-2012, 05:09 PM
Listen, I seriously don't know what you're talking about in your first couple sentence's to this debate. That looks to be another argument in itself so I'm not even going to try and break it down.

Why are you bringing Mendenhall in the fold and where are you getting we don't appreciate his accomplishments? Again irrelevant to my point.

Since you want to include Mendenhall for whatever reason, was Dwyer's performance against the Ravens ground-breaking last night? No, but he did make a splash play that I've never seen Menenhall make against the Ravens and when he did have the opportunity on one on one circumstances, he welcomes the contact, unlike Mendenhall, who wants to turn his back.

There was LITTLE to NO lanes last night for Dwyer to run through but he did have a handful of one on one's where he didn't go down on first contact situations.

Also, his vision on that T.D run was virtually the difference in the game (arguably) because Ray Rice countered with a long TD run of his own. Dwyer didn't have the stats, but he made the runs he needed to make in key situations and I'll take that all day long.

It comes from all the other Dwyer worshiping threads. Not worth digging up, but they're typically full of people saying Dwyer doesn't need blocking, Mendy's past 3 seasons are irrelevant, etc..

Anyway, to your points, I just don't agree with him coming up in critical situations, or him running anyone over. When we were desperate for a 1st down to seal away the Chiefs game, we came up a yard short on Dwyers run because he got blown up 1 on 1 by a cornerback. The last two games he has deliberately gone to the ground with zero contact and waited to be downed instead of trying to make a run. That doesn't show this desire to hit anyone his fans keep pointing to.

And again, none of his supporters want to explain how we're supposed to have a workhorse #1 back who can only take 17 or so carries a game before he's too worn out too keep going. Not to mention that we've now seen a few times that clogging the middle pretty much puts an end to his day. So, just not seeing him as a #1 guy. Sorry.

StainlessStill
12-03-2012, 05:45 PM
Why are you labeling his fans "supporters"? You act like Dwyer fans have formed a cult, haha. Not sure what you have against the dude, he's just another guy with potential givin an opportunity.

NOBODY within this Steelers running core is the #1 guy just yet. It's no secret that Dwyer is the most consistent out of the bunch and we're willing to give him a shot for the role since he welcomes contact and had the ability to break for big runs, alas the go a-head touchdown against the vaunted Baltimore Ravens defense yesterday. Didn't see anyone else stepping up within our backs and the deactivation of Mendenhall with Dwyer getting the start tells you our coaching staff feels the same.

Got to remember now that EVERY SINGLE ONE of our running backs have been hurt this season, including Dwyer so it's going to take time for him to get going and get use to the workload. Besides, we need to COMMIT to somebody and Dwyer is the guy. Redman got it, Mendenhall got it, now it's Dwyer's turn.

austinfrench76
12-03-2012, 06:05 PM
Disgaree that Dwyer is not ready for prime time or any like that. Baltimore knew we HAD to run the ball. We played a 3rd string, 38 yr old QB, No one, including many on this board, thought Chuck had that game in him. They loaded up against the run, over pursued several times, and stuffed 8 in the box most of the night. Dwyer is not Jerome Bettis but last night is not a good game to say bad things about him. It's just not a good example. Some of the other things are true, him laying down drives me nuts, but he is a power back that CUT BACK last night for a nice, long TD run. The holes weren't there and he had to play his hand. Overall, good game for him but I wouldn't deactivate Mendenhall. That seems silly, considering the backups to Dwyer and Redman is Chris Rainey. That's over board on Tomlin's part, IMO.

lardlad
12-03-2012, 06:05 PM
That Bomb on 3rd and short, and that silly trick play where we had a WR passing were big head scratchers. No need for either of those plays.

They are only silly when they don't work. El to Ward in SB 40 was great because it worked. If it hadn't we'd all be bitching about what a stupid call it was.

JeromeBetties63
12-03-2012, 06:08 PM
I despise this nitpicking. You guys do realize that there were some pretty darn good players on the other side of the ball? No line opens a gaping hole every play. Even Jim Brown got tackled behind the line of scrimmage sometimes. Etc, etc. Of course, if a player is consistently below standard fans can point it out and complain. But busting on Dwyer and the O line after that game is...well, ignorant.

JeromeBetties63
12-03-2012, 06:10 PM
They are only silly when they don't work. El to Ward in SB 40 was great because it worked. If it hadn't we'd all be bitching about what a stupid call it was.

Agree, that play was well designed and the throw was actually on target. Graham made a great read and great play. :hatsoff: That happens sometimes when you play against a professional team in the National Football League.

JeromeBetties63
12-03-2012, 06:16 PM
Disgaree that Dwyer is not ready for prime time or any like that. Baltimore knew we HAD to run the ball. We played a 3rd string, 38 yr old QB, No one, including many on this board, thought Chuck had that game in him. They loaded up against the run, over pursued several times, and stuffed 8 in the box most of the night. Dwyer is not Jerome Bettis but last night is not a good game to say bad things about him. It's just not a good example. Some of the other things are true, him laying down drives me nuts, but he is a power back that CUT BACK last night for a nice, long TD run. The holes weren't there and he had to play his hand. Overall, good game for him but I wouldn't deactivate Mendenhall. That seems silly, considering the backups to Dwyer and Redman is Chris Rainey. That's over board on Tomlin's part, IMO.

Yes, the Ravens were stacking the box all night. Yet we still rushed for just shy of 100 yds and got six first downs on rushes. The "lay down" was a reaction to not wanted to give up an even bigger loss or lose the football. It wasn't great but I can't really criticize it that much. Really, both Dwyer and Redman run hard and fight for yards. Dwyer only has 114 carries, we haven't even seen enough yet to know what he can do. Stand behind the guys! :thumbsup:

Hawaii 5-0
12-03-2012, 06:24 PM
Agree, that play was well designed and the throw was actually on target. Graham made a great read and great play. :hatsoff: That happens sometimes when you play against a professional team in the National Football League.

yup, the guys on the other side of the line of scrimmage are getting paid too.

lardlad
12-03-2012, 06:24 PM
I despise this nitpicking. You guys do realize that there were some pretty darn good players on the other side of the ball? No line opens a gaping hole every play. Even Jim Brown got tackled behind the line of scrimmage sometimes. Etc, etc. Of course, if a player is consistently below standard fans can point it out and complain. But busting on Dwyer and the O line after that game is...well, ignorant.

They did load the box last night. Mendy would have hit the edge better, but overall I bet it would be a wash. Bmore was determined to stop the run. Anyone would have had trouble.

Mendy is a #1 pick and doesn't look like it. Still not sure though he isn't their best back. My biggest beef with mendy is he gets his yards in chunks. If its third and short, I never have a lot of confidence. But he can take it all the way. Redman and Dwyer always seem to fall forward. Mendy stands up so tall when he runs, if you lay a hand on him, it's not hard to bring him down. Regardless of what happened with the browns and the SB against green bay, mendy always worried me with the way he carries the ball. I wouldn't say he has a fumbling problem, but he does not protect the ball well.

Dwyer has bummed me out a bit. Diving, taking himself out etc. not sure what the real issue is there but if he is going to be our #1 guy he still has a way to go. Not saying he can't do it but...

cubanstogie
12-03-2012, 06:38 PM
They did load the box last night. Mendy would have hit the edge better, but overall I bet it would be a wash. Bmore was determined to stop the run. Anyone would have had trouble.

Mendy is a #1 pick and doesn't look like it. Still not sure though he isn't their best back. My biggest beef with mendy is he gets his yards in chunks. If its third and short, I never have a lot of confidence. But he can take it all the way. Redman and Dwyer always seem to fall forward. Mendy stands up so tall when he runs, if you lay a hand on him, it's not hard to bring him down. Regardless of what happened with the browns and the SB against green bay, mendy always worried me with the way he carries the ball. I wouldn't say he has a fumbling problem, but he does not protect the ball well.

Dwyer has bummed me out a bit. Diving, taking himself out etc. not sure what the real issue is there but if he is going to be our #1 guy he still has a way to go. Not saying he can't do it but...

When the game was over I thought to myself both Dwyer and Redman played well. I looked at the stats and saw Dwyers numbers and would never have believed they were that poor. Stats don't tell the whole story. The lay down was more about not losing more yardage with spin move than to avoid contact IMO. The lay down 2 weeks ago did piss me off but this one not so much. I really believe Dwyer has more upsdide than Mendy at this point. And he shouldn't demand nearly as much cash. I am not saying he is the answer for 5 years but he can do a solid job. He has good feet , he needs mental toughness and to get into better physical shape.

Darkstorm05
12-03-2012, 07:39 PM
Saying he's only going to the ground to prevent more loss is bull, given that the two worst times he's done he had at least 2-4 yards clear ahead. He simply tried one gap, failed, and went to the ground. Yesterday was the worst, because it really looked in the replay like he stood there for a good second and a half looking around before flopping. Unacceptable.

I just really don't want to go into next year with only him and Redman as our #1 choice. That means every game our run gets shut down just by clogging the middle. The league is transitioning to speed, because of Goodell and his laws against physical play. Neither of these guys have that speed.

Regarding the trick play, Randel El throwing to Ward is a guy used to throwing passes hitting up our best possession receiver. A WR throwing a bomb to Dwyer, who was waddling his fastest and still couldn't get there, is very different, and silly.

JeromeBetties63
12-03-2012, 08:17 PM
Saying he's only going to the ground to prevent more loss is bull, given that the two worst times he's done he had at least 2-4 yards clear ahead. He simply tried one gap, failed, and went to the ground. Yesterday was the worst, because it really looked in the replay like he stood there for a good second and a half looking around before flopping. Unacceptable.

I just really don't want to go into next year with only him and Redman as our #1 choice. That means every game our run gets shut down just by clogging the middle. The league is transitioning to speed, because of Goodell and his laws against physical play. Neither of these guys have that speed.

Regarding the trick play, Randel El throwing to Ward is a guy used to throwing passes hitting up our best possession receiver. A WR throwing a bomb to Dwyer, who was waddling his fastest and still couldn't get there, is very different, and silly.

Part of why it's a trick play is that Dwyer is the receiver. I'm pretty sure Todd Haley knows what he's doing. :tt03:

StainlessStill
12-03-2012, 08:21 PM
Remember we tried the same type of trick play on the opposite side of the field with Baron Batch in Cincy. Batch dropped it and a trick play wasn't heard from since until last night's opportunity with Dwyer. Regardless, it just seems like Darkstorm has a very bad bias against Dwyer for whatever reason. It's not that he "couldn't get there." He was there, it's just the Ravens weren't fooled and they jumped all over it.

Shit happens.

Darkstorm05
12-03-2012, 09:14 PM
Remember we tried the same type of trick play on the opposite side of the field with Baron Batch in Cincy. Batch dropped it and a trick play wasn't heard from since until last night's opportunity with Dwyer. Regardless, it just seems like Darkstorm has a very bad bias against Dwyer for whatever reason. It's not that he "couldn't get there." He was there, it's just the Ravens weren't fooled and they jumped all over it.

Shit happens.

Haha...yes, I'm anti-fad. Everyone always calls for the backup. In 2010, I think, the official Steelers forums was jam packed with people wanting Leftwich to start over Ben. It's silly. It equally annoys me when people want to disregard Mendenhall's past performance because Dwyer had 2 good games. A healthy Mendy playing hard is 10 times the back Dwyer is.

Everyone is free to love their guy, though, and the current reality is that Tomlin isn't happy with Mendy, and Haley wasn't happy with Dwyer. Big shakeup next year, as we can't bring all these guys back. Mendy almost assuredly leaves, and we'll see how that turns out.

StainlessStill
12-03-2012, 09:18 PM
In 2010, I think, the official Steelers forums was jam packed with people wanting Leftwich to start over Ben.

http://www.memesters.com/images/items/dontWant2.png

Darkstorm05
12-03-2012, 09:34 PM
http://www.memesters.com/images/items/dontWant2.png

Yea, it's ridiculous. It's why this forum is far superior...well, one reason, anyway. We may have some gloom and doomers here, and some of us dislike some players(I hear that Ike sucks), but the majority of us I think like the bulk of the players performances.

bornaSteelersfan
12-04-2012, 01:44 AM
Haha...yes, I'm anti-fad. Everyone always calls for the backup. In 2010, I think, the official Steelers forums was jam packed with people wanting Leftwich to start over Ben. It's silly. It equally annoys me when people want to disregard Mendenhall's past performance because Dwyer had 2 good games. A healthy Mendy playing hard is 10 times the back Dwyer is.

Everyone is free to love their guy, though, and the current reality is that Tomlin isn't happy with Mendy, and Haley wasn't happy with Dwyer. Big shakeup next year, as we can't bring all these guys back. Mendy almost assuredly leaves, and we'll see how that turns out.

I don't disregard Mendenhall's past performance. He dropped the ball way too many times. The question is always, "What have you done for me lately?" Dwyer cannot be the "workhorse" because he gets winded too easily and does not have break away speed. The only back assured of being a Steeler next season is Rainey.

Rotorhead
12-04-2012, 09:44 AM
We arent "disregarding" his past performances, learn some reading comprehension skills. You are comparing his body of work as a starter to, until this season, a third stringers body of work. Then cherry picking the stats that make your argument better. You cant compare them like that for numerous reasons. To restate my point so you may better comprehend it, you simply can not compare stats from a multiyear starter to second and third stringers when you only take into account total yardage and # if TDs, the second snd third stringers simply do not get the amount of opportunities.

Rotorhead
12-04-2012, 09:48 AM
That being said, I have nothing against Mendy, had high hopes for him this season in a better offense. I just prefer a RB that will fight for the tuff yards, Mendy doesnt, and for the record my preference is Redman as I think he is the better back right now.

StainlessStill
12-04-2012, 10:08 AM
I view Mendenhall as an open field runner. I would love to see him come back and be used as a Reggie Bush type player (The Saints version) and try to match him up one on one in space. Fact of the matter, is this offensive line we have now barley opens any crease's and Mendenhall is a bounce it type runner who doesn't like contact. That and he runs with the football very carelessly and away from his body.

We finally saw that when traffic is around him, the ball popped out twice in Cleveland. What a coincidence that Dwyer is a straight ahead, between the tackle runner, bounced it OUTSIDE and got a hat on the football in Cleveland.

Even though Mendy could still be used as a valuable weapon, Dwyer fits this team better the way the offensive line drive-blocks between the tackles. A bruiser to compliment the speed on the outsides.

SteelersCanada
12-04-2012, 11:03 AM
I like that we can disagree but remain civil regarding Dwyer.

Anyway, here's my take on Jonathan. There's better running backs coming out of college this year - rookies - that are more explosive and have more upside than Dwyer. He's simply not the answer for us at running back. The one dimensional run-it-up-the-middle-or-gain-nothing mantra that he seems to have isn't working. Take Martin from the Bucs, for example. He's a rookie and built similarly to Dwyer, but has the speed and explosive play ability to bounce it outside and make things happen. Dwyer just doesn't have the speed or quickness to make something outta nothing - which is a shame. He's very good in down-and-short situations, but he's not the answer at RB.

I don't even know if he'll have a roster spot if the Steelers draft a running back in this years draft. Guys like Davis, Lacy and Barner are just flat out better running backs than Dwyer.

steelfury02
12-04-2012, 12:00 PM
TO ALL YOU RAVENS TROLLS. This is your "situation" :
http://coedbc.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/flacco-girlfriend.jpg