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View Full Version : Tomlin on why he didn't go for a 2pt-conversion


GoFor7
12-09-2012, 05:07 PM
Good luck making sense of it, per Dejan Kovacevic's Sulia:

Mike Tomlin's odd explanation for not going to two when it was 34-16 ... READ MORE:

Mike Tomlin was asked why he didn't go for two when the Steelers pulled within 34-16. A 34-18 deficit sets up a situation where they can tie with two TDs: "Until we stopped them, it was going to be insignificant. I was holding the two-point plays for that reason and that reason only. Now, we still have them in our hip pocket. Those specialty plays, we didn't want to put on tope unless we had an opportunity to close the gap. As you can see, we didn't." ... Good luck making sense of that.

JewniorGong
12-09-2012, 05:08 PM
I guess he's saying we don't have three 2-pt. conversion plays

Fire Arians
12-09-2012, 05:09 PM
game was already over when the chargers converted that 4th down on the fake punt

maddog78
12-09-2012, 05:10 PM
What a fucking stupid excuse. The emperor has no clothes.

GoFor7
12-09-2012, 05:14 PM
game was already over when the chargers converted that 4th down on the fake punt

Keep this in mind, Tomlin said the reason he kept Ben in the game late was because the Steelers are "competitors." If they are such fierce competitors, why not try and do everything possible to win? If it's 34-26 instead of 34-24 after the Brown TD, the Steelers at least have a chance to recover an onside kick with 58 seconds left to tie the game with a TD and 2pt-conversion. Yes, their chances of even recovering an onside kick are low, but again Tomlin said "we are competitors." Why are they not making every desperate move to try and come back?

zcoop
12-09-2012, 05:26 PM
game was already over when the chargers converted that 4th down on the fake punt

Agreed, game's over at that point. Much ado about nothing. If he had gone for it and missed, he'd have some bitching there too. Damn, can't make this shit up, can we?

GoFor7
12-09-2012, 05:28 PM
Agreed, game's over at that point. Much ado about nothing. If he had gone for it and missed, he'd have some bitching there too. Damn, can't make this shit up, can we?

Don't the good teams do everything possible to win, even if the probability of success is low? Yes, maybe the Steelers would not have gotten either two-point conversion, but it's desperation time. You do whatever it takes. Otherwise, Tomlin shouldn't be giving speeches about how the Steelers are "competitors."

The Curtain's Crusader
12-09-2012, 05:30 PM
Lol! Dumb. If it's that big of a deal, use a "regular play".

zcoop
12-09-2012, 05:35 PM
Don't the good teams do everything possible to win, even if the probability of success is low? Yes, maybe the Steelers would not have gotten either two-point conversion, but it's desperation time. You do whatever it takes. Otherwise, Tomlin shouldn't be giving speeches about how the Steelers are "competitors."

Sometime you have to admit it when you get your ass kicked.

FacemeIke
12-09-2012, 05:36 PM
You can't say it was because the game was over and then in the same breath say "we are competitors" and leave your QB in the game after he just missed three weeks with an injury. By leaving Ben in the game it shows me that Tomlin thought there was at least a marginal chance of winning the game. His reason for not going for two therefore makes no sense.

Anyways, he's never said it was because he thought the game was over. He's basically saying that he didn't want to show his two point conversion plays in a game where it might not make a difference. He wanted to save them for a better opportunity. All he is doing by saying that is saving face because we could have used any play in the playbook to at least make an effort for the 2 and saved the "A+" plays for another time later in the season.

Rowland2110
12-09-2012, 05:37 PM
What a bunch of garbage. I now they might have a couple of plays specifically designed for the two point conversion but you can still run any short yardage pass or running play in the playbook.

GoFor7
12-09-2012, 05:38 PM
Sometime you have to admit it when you get your ass kicked.

So even if you have a chance to narrow the opponent's lead to one possession, you shouldn't do it because you have to accept "you got your ass kicked?"

I guess Ryan Clark shouldn't have punched the ball out of Ray Rice's hand in the Divisional round a few years ago when it was 21-7 Ravens since the Steelers were "getting their asses kicked."

Lady Steel
12-09-2012, 05:41 PM
Tomlin's post-game interview:

http://www.steelers.com/video-and-audio/videos/Mike-Tomlin-Post-game-Interview---vs-Chargers/74d3a7be-2f8a-4b7b-ab36-e63233440826

ZoneBlitzer
12-09-2012, 05:49 PM
Who cares about that? I want to hear if they own it or not? That's the most important thing - do they, as men, own it? It means so much to me to hear that.

GoFor7
12-09-2012, 05:50 PM
You can't say it was because the game was over and then in the same breath say "we are competitors" and leave your QB in the game after he just missed three weeks with an injury. By leaving Ben in the game it shows me that Tomlin thought there was at least a marginal chance of winning the game. His reason for not going for two therefore makes no sense.

Anyways, he's never said it was because he thought the game was over. He's basically saying that he didn't want to show his two point conversion plays in a game where it might not make a difference. He wanted to save them for a better opportunity. All he is doing by saying that is saving face because we could have used any play in the playbook to at least make an effort for the 2 and saved the "A+" plays for another time later in the season.

So what counts as a "better opportunity?" If the Steelers and Ravens both finish 10-6, but Baltimore gets the division based off tie-breakers and the Steelers have to go to New England or Denver in the first round, will we look back and say "that might have been an opportunity to run some 2 pt-conversion plays?"

FacemeIke
12-09-2012, 05:54 PM
Exactly. It's a bs excuse. Tomlin has to come up with some excuse as to why he f'd up though. Twice in the game he went for the extra point when he should have been going for 2.

ZoneBlitzer
12-09-2012, 05:54 PM
Tomlin's post-game interview:

http://www.steelers.com/video-and-audio/videos/Mike-Tomlin-Post-game-Interview---vs-Chargers/74d3a7be-2f8a-4b7b-ab36-e63233440826

Damn, he didn't own it.

WVABE
12-09-2012, 06:03 PM
The failed 4th and a foot got him skeered.

Seahawks know what to do at home, its 51-0.

Raw Steel
12-09-2012, 06:32 PM
That excuse should scare everyone. Either he is not holding himself accountable or he doesn't understand he should have went for two. Either way, bad news.

ChristianKustomz
12-09-2012, 06:37 PM
What a fucking stupid excuse. The emperor has no clothes.

Remember Tomlins usual responses...

1.) well the Standard is the Standard
2.) yeah we own that
3.) we will have to get back to basics
Blah blah blah.

That's all Tomlin has anymore...stupid played out excuses. I used to like him but this season I would be very tempted to fire him as well as the rest of the coaching staff. Wallace is first on my list of players to not just fire but push off the top building of Heinz field stadium.

Just my 2 cents.

zcoop
12-09-2012, 06:52 PM
I thought I heard the man take credit for the loss. He may have had a fucked up response to the 2pt conversion question but he accepted credit for the loss. Am I the only one who heard that?

Darkstorm05
12-09-2012, 06:55 PM
Maybe I'm confused here. We lost by just a bit more than 2 points, making any 2 point conversions purely irrelevant to the outcome of this game. So, who gives a flying rat's ass if we didn't go for conversions that would have done jack shit for us?

Stairway to 7
12-09-2012, 06:56 PM
Tomlin cannot manage a game, end of story.

Stairway to 7
12-09-2012, 06:58 PM
Maybe I'm confused here. We lost by just a bit more than 2 points, making any 2 point conversions purely irrelevant to the outcome of this game. So, who gives a flying rat's ass if we didn't go for conversions that would have done jack shit for us?

What it shows is once again Tomlin can't maneg a game, HE MADE IT A 3 SCORE GAME WITH HIS STUPIDITY. WHEN WITH TWO 2 PT CONS WE COULD HAVE BEEN LEVEL.

What this shows is Tomlins maths 'aint good.

sloppyjoe
12-09-2012, 06:59 PM
hey dipshit, if you win the game and advance to the playoffs you could always come up with a new 2pt play if you need to.
i mean its not like you are working on technique or conditioning or clock management or discipline during the week.

Darkstorm05
12-09-2012, 07:00 PM
What it shows is once again Tomlin can't maneg a game, HE MADE IT A 3 SCORE GAME WITH HIS STUPIDITY. WHEN WITH TWO 2 PT CONS WE COULD HAVE BEEN LEVEL.

What this shows is Tomlins maths 'aint good.

Yes, we play that same rule when we play Madden, too. Mandatory conversions, no punting on 4th downs.

BowCatShot
12-09-2012, 07:03 PM
What a fucking stupid excuse. The emperor has no clothes.

Persactly!

Steel_Bus_24
12-09-2012, 07:18 PM
Tomlin on why he didn't go for a 2pt-conversion


http://images20.fotki.com/v682/photos/0/1685060/8895181/sellxd-vi.png


Yeah they're saving all the good plays for later:doh:

GoFor7
12-09-2012, 07:18 PM
Yes, we play that same rule when we play Madden, too. Mandatory conversions, no punting on 4th downs.

Lets do some math:

After Wallace's second TD, the score is 34-16. Kicking an extra point makes it 34-17, which is still a 3 possession game. Keep in mind, Tomlin said the Steelers are "competitors." Getting a two-point conversion makes it 34-18, which makes it a two possession game. If the Steelers would have gotten a two-point conversion after the Brown TD, it would have been 34-26, which is only a one possession lead. At that point there was 58 seconds left in the game. The Steelers, being the "competitors" that they are, could've gone for an on-side kick. Had they recovered the on-side kick, they may have had time to get the TD and game-tying two-point conversion, thus making it 34-34.

Obviously, two-point conversions and on-side kicks are no certainty. But the Steelers are "competitors." Don't competitors do everything they can to win a game? Or do they concede and not try to narrow the point deficit, but still keep Ben in the game?

OX1947
12-09-2012, 07:21 PM
My favorite was when we needed to do an onside kick, and he still kicked it off. That was the best.

Darkstorm05
12-09-2012, 07:29 PM
Lets do some math:

After Wallace's second TD, the score is 34-16. Kicking an extra point makes it 34-17, which is still a 3 possession game. Keep in mind, Tomlin said the Steelers are "competitors." Getting a two-point conversion makes it 34-18, which makes it a two possession game. If the Steelers would have gotten a two-point conversion after the Brown TD, it would have been 34-26, which is only a one possession lead. At that point there was 58 seconds left in the game. The Steelers, being the "competitors" that they are, could've gone for an on-side kick. Had they recovered the on-side kick, they may have had time to get the TD and game-tying two-point conversion, thus making it 34-34.

Obviously, two-point conversions and on-side kicks are no certainty. But the Steelers are "competitors." Don't competitors do everything they can to win a game? Or do they concede and not try to narrow the point deficit, but still keep Ben in the game?

That's a lot of If's you have there. None of them happened, though, and we lost by 10 points, making all that shit irrelevant. We could have made 3 conversions, and we still lose. Pointless.

GoFor7
12-09-2012, 07:32 PM
That's a lot of If's you have there. None of them happened, though, and we lost by 10 points, making all that shit irrelevant. We could have made 3 conversions, and we still lose. Pointless.

I made clear that two-point conversions and on-side kicks aren't a certainty, but that's not the point. The point is they need to TRY, especially if Tomlin is going to keep his starting QB in under the mantra that the Steelers are "competitors."

BowCatShot
12-09-2012, 09:12 PM
"Until we stopped them, it was going to be insignificant. I was holding the two-point plays for that reason and that reason only. Now, we still have them in our hip pocket. Those specialty plays, we didn't want to put on tope unless we had an opportunity to close the gap. As you can see, we didn't."

This is precisely the sort of thing that Shakespeare was referring to by "A tale told by an idiot".

This guy Tomlin is in over his head and he knows it.

Atlanta Dan
12-09-2012, 09:44 PM
Major rip on Tomlin in the Trib-Review

Kovacevic: Tomlin's tough talk too late

Silent, stone-faced and almost motionless, Mike Tomlin stood inside the double-doors of the Steelers’ locker room to shake hands with every player, as he always does.

Not a syllable exchanged.

And once the last of them crossed — it was Mike Wallace, fittingly, given his late arrival to the game itself:chuckle:Tomlin pulled those doors shut and began barking, loud enough to be heard from here to San Diego.

I don’t know what all he wound up saying and, in all honesty, couldn’t care less

Not after the Steelers had just been … not beaten, but smoked by a 6-8 San Diego outfit, 34-24, on Sunday at Heinz Field....

And most shamefully, smoked in the same season as similar losses to Oakland, Tennessee and Cleveland....

...this is far too many lousy losses to think it could be anyone else’s fault but the man in charge....

This is on Tomlin, front to finish

It starts with preparation, always the coach’s domain. Sure, as I’d heard, Brett Keisel gave a rousing pregame speech in which he warned teammates, “If we don’t come out to play, this team can beat us!” But when a green player such as Curtis Brown confesses afterward that he “probably drunk the wine a little bit” after Baltimore and “didn’t prepare well enough,” the coaching staff must see it and act on it.

That’s not something you find out Sunday.

http://triblive.com/sports/dejankovacevic/dejancolumns/3102976-74/tomlin-steelers-smoked#axzz2EcH5gr5u

:thumbsup:

SteelBobbleHead
12-09-2012, 09:47 PM
Obviously Mike Tomlin likes the word "obviously".

SteeleReign
12-09-2012, 10:45 PM
This Tomlin circus has become tiresome. I'm tired of all the tough talk. Tired of the trite and hollow colloquialisms. His legacy is becoming that of a coach that makes critical mistakes and gets frequently out-coached by "lesser" coaches.

We need a coach that makes the players' assholes pucker when he walks in the room. If that is Tomlin, then that's fine by me. But this players coach crap has got to go.

ZoneBlitzer
12-09-2012, 11:51 PM
@Atlanta Dan. Good read. The more I think about it, the more it becomes clear just how mediocre of a football coach this guy is. I don't see change under him. I just see bad trends that don't seem to get corrected - turnovers, bad offense and getting owned by weaker opponents.

ricardisimo
12-10-2012, 02:33 AM
This Tomlin circus has become tiresome. I'm tired of all the tough talk. Tired of the trite and hollow colloquialisms. His legacy is becoming that of a coach that makes critical mistakes and gets frequently out-coached by "lesser" coaches.

We need a coach that makes the players' assholes pucker when he walks in the room. If that is Tomlin, then that's fine by me. But this players coach crap has got to go.
Other than from each other on this forum and others like it, where does everyone get this idea that Tomlin is a "players coach"? Nothing I have ever read anywhere (except here) leads me to believe that Tomlin is chummy with anyone on the team. And again, do all of you people crawl under your rocks when the team wins? Was Tomlin "in over his head" when he beat a 9-2 Ravens team in Baltimore with his third-string, 80-year-old QB?

How do you people manage to survive during weeks when the team wins? You must feel completely lost when we win. Life is suddenly devoid of meaning. http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/guns/suicide.gif

VictoryFormation
12-10-2012, 04:44 AM
I can't believe this uproar over a two-point conversion. Those in the media are always looking for something to play-up in order to keep people's attention. Don't forget, it wasn't exactly ideal conditions that the Steelers were playing in. It has been raining for several days and we all know that field does not stand up well to inclement weather. If the condition of the field was indeed a factor in his decision, it would be a topic that Tomlin would want to avoid bringing up in the media. There are, also, many other factors that come into play when deciding whether to go for a two-point conversion, or not.
I am more concerned about some of the bad decisions on offense and why the team came out flat.

lotas
12-10-2012, 06:11 AM
What a shitty coach, I bet he's never even taken us to the Superbowl....twice :coffee:

GoFor7
12-10-2012, 06:50 AM
I can't believe this uproar over a two-point conversion. Those in the media are always looking for something to play-up in order to keep people's attention. Don't forget, it wasn't exactly ideal conditions that the Steelers were playing in. It has been raining for several days and we all know that field does not stand up well to inclement weather. If the condition of the field was indeed a factor in his decision, it would be a topic that Tomlin would want to avoid bringing up in the media. There are, also, many other factors that come into play when deciding whether to go for a two-point conversion, or not.
I am more concerned about some of the bad decisions on offense and why the team came out flat.

So when it rains the Steelers can't go for two-point conversions? Got it. :coffee:

What's getting people pissed at Tomlin is that after the game he said he kept Ben in it because the Steelers are "competitors." So if the Steelers are competitors, shouldn't they be doing everything possible to at least try and narrow the lead?

Terminator
12-10-2012, 07:48 AM
The amount of excuses I am seeing for this piss poor performance is really making me want to throw up.

Blind faith/homerism is worse than bandwagoning. At least bandwagoners disappear.

steelfury02
12-10-2012, 07:55 AM
I don't even mind the homering - when you can still be that optimistic after a loss, it shows your love, no matter how insane it seems lol

I just get tired of people telling me I'm not a fan or to "hit the road, fuck off, we don't want you" when I'm pissed for yet again, another underachieving, lack of effort performance by a team that has a ton of potential. If I wasn't a fan, I would just turn off the tv and not comment. It is interesting to me that apparently there is some sort of law that anoints certain fans to judge who is a fan, and who isn't. I suppose it is easier to focus blasting someone else than the issues that face the team.

JeromeBetties63
12-10-2012, 08:16 AM
Agreed, game's over at that point. Much ado about nothing. If he had gone for it and missed, he'd have some bitching there too. Damn, can't make this shit up, can we?

Wrong. Dead wrong. He should have gone for it. Period.

Atlanta Dan
12-10-2012, 08:21 AM
What a shitty coach, I bet he's never even taken us to the Superbowl....twice :coffee:

George Seifert won 2 Super Bowls as the 49ers coach - get back to me when Seifert is inducted into Canton

Many of us slamming Tomlin for some of his actions this year are not saying he is a bad coach - but he has had a number of bad games this year and his stubborn streak that shows on such plays as the failed 4th and 1 from midfield yesterday has been resulting in more costs than benefits lately

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-10-2012, 08:34 AM
Only on message boards like this will there be multiple pages devoted to a 2 point conversion ...................when the team lost by 10 points. Get a grip whiners and step away from the ledge.

Stairway to 7
12-10-2012, 09:12 AM
I can't believe this uproar over a two-point conversion. Those in the media are always looking for something to play-up in order to keep people's attention. Don't forget, it wasn't exactly ideal conditions that the Steelers were playing in. It has been raining for several days and we all know that field does not stand up well to inclement weather. If the condition of the field was indeed a factor in his decision, it would be a topic that Tomlin would want to avoid bringing up in the media. There are, also, many other factors that come into play when deciding whether to go for a two-point conversion, or not.
I am more concerned about some of the bad decisions on offense and why the team came out flat.

This is complete nonsense, the only chance we had to win that game was to get it back to TWO SCORES, the idiot coach the that possibility down the toilet. His excuses were feeblew beyond belief.

Face it, this guy cannot manage a game.

The team always comes out flat against lesser opponents, and that's on Tomlin too.


This is a guy who brings nothing to the table, except cliched nonsense and platitudes, I want a coach who is smart and adds something, Tomlin is a guy who landed on his feet and has been carried by DLB to 2 SB's.


Tell me, what does Mike Tomlin briniging to the party, because he cannot manage a game to save his life.

Stairway to 7
12-10-2012, 09:13 AM
Only on message boards like this will there be multiple pages devoted to a 2 point conversion ...................when the team lost by 10 points. Get a grip whiners and step away from the ledge.


Get a grip and stop making excuses for this fool.

jb500ex
12-10-2012, 09:45 AM
This is complete nonsense, the only chance we had to win that game was to get it back to TWO SCORES, the idiot coach the that possibility down the toilet. His excuses were feeblew beyond belief.

Face it, this guy cannot manage a game.

The team always comes out flat against lesser opponents, and that's on Tomlin too.


This is a guy who brings nothing to the table, except cliched nonsense and platitudes, I want a coach who is smart and adds something, Tomlin is a guy who landed on his feet and has been carried by DLB to 2 SB's.


Tell me, what does Mike Tomlin briniging to the party, because he cannot manage a game to save his life.

He looks good in sunglasses

Stairway to 7
12-10-2012, 09:52 AM
He looks good in sunglasses

That's about it bro.

:doh:

mikegrimey
12-10-2012, 10:13 AM
Tomlin has a history of bad choices with 2 pt conversions, it's one of his weak points. However, the plebes acting like he's a helpless bottom feeder propped up by everyone around him need to come back to reality, they want to pile the teams negatives on Tomlin while attributing its positives to someone else, people frequently did this with Arians too, it's too extreme. It's possible for a coach to be good at some things and bad at others.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-10-2012, 10:50 AM
Get a grip and stop making excuses for this fool.

you are complaining that Tomlin didnt go for a 2 pt conversion and they lost by 10points............and you think I need to get a grip? :screwy:



Read the quote, listen to the man and pretend you have even been on the sidelines coaching a bunch of 8 year olds. His defense showed they could not stop Ellen Degeneres from hitting on men, let alone stop a professional football team from scoring, so he was more worried about getting TD's and not 2 pt conversions.

Lady Steel
12-10-2012, 10:52 AM
I think Tomlin looked really bad in his post-game press conference yesterday. He looked like someone hit him upside the head with a shovel. He had a "what the hell just happened" look about him. I hope he reflects on that.

ricardisimo
12-10-2012, 11:08 AM
George Seifert won 2 Super Bowls as the 49ers coach - get back to me when Seifert is inducted into Canton

Many of us slamming Tomlin for some of his actions this year are not saying he is a bad coach - but he has had a number of bad games this year and his stubborn streak that shows on such plays as the failed 4th and 1 from midfield yesterday has been resulting in more costs than benefits lately
And San Fran has won multiple Super Bowls since firing him. They certainly didn't go through any sort of playoff drought shortly after firing him. :rolleyes:

lasvegasguy
12-10-2012, 11:10 AM
So he gave up on trying two point conversions in a game he knew he couldn't win but tried the onside kick at the end of the game? Please someone end this "Rooney Rule" experiment and get a real head coach in here, now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lasvegasguy
12-10-2012, 11:12 AM
I think Tomlin looked really bad in his post-game press conference yesterday. He looked like someone hit him upside the head with a shovel. He had a "what the hell just happened" look about him. I hope he reflects on that.

He should be used to losing to the botton dwellars of the AFC. It has become his calling card since he arrived in Pittsburgh.

ricardisimo
12-10-2012, 11:12 AM
So he gave up on trying two point conversions but tried the onside kick at the end in a game he knew we couldn't win? Please someone end this "Rooney Rule" experiment and get a real head coach in here, now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, please do elaborate. I can't wait to hear where your brilliant reasoning is going. Do go on...

lasvegasguy
12-10-2012, 11:22 AM
This is complete nonsense, the only chance we had to win that game was to get it back to TWO SCORES, the idiot coach the that possibility down the toilet. His excuses were feeblew beyond belief.

Face it, this guy cannot manage a game.

The team always comes out flat against lesser opponents, and that's on Tomlin too.


This is a guy who brings nothing to the table, except cliched nonsense and platitudes, I want a coach who is smart and adds something, Tomlin is a guy who landed on his feet and has been carried by DLB to 2 SB's.


Tell me, what does Mike Tomlin briniging to the party, because he cannot manage a game to save his life.

Isn't it ironic that the guy we ran out of town (Arians) is having success with a rookie QB but the guy who was handed the keys to a Porsche can't do shit. I think we found the real problem my friends.

Stairway to 7
12-10-2012, 11:26 AM
Tomlin has a history of bad choices with 2 pt conversions, it's one of his weak points. However, the plebes acting like he's a helpless bottom feeder propped up by everyone around him need to come back to reality, they want to pile the teams negatives on Tomlin while attributing its positives to someone else, people frequently did this with Arians too, it's too extreme. It's possible for a coach to be good at some things and bad at others.

so what is captain cliche good at?

jtbsteeler
12-10-2012, 11:36 AM
so what is captain cliche good at?


That cliche crap is wearing thin. Tomlin can't survive many more empty seat Heinz fields...

fansince'76
12-10-2012, 11:40 AM
That cliche crap is wearing thin. Tomlin can't survive many more empty seat Heinz fields...

Please. Get back to me when he actually posts a losing record (or 3 in 6 years like Cowher did yet was still spared).

GoFor7
12-10-2012, 11:57 AM
you are complaining that Tomlin didnt go for a 2 pt conversion and they lost by 10points............and you think I need to get a grip? :screwy:



Read the quote, listen to the man and pretend you have even been on the sidelines coaching a bunch of 8 year olds. His defense showed they could not stop Ellen Degeneres from hitting on men, let alone stop a professional football team from scoring, so he was more worried about getting TD's and not 2 pt conversions.

The point is when Tomlin goes off and says the Steelers are competitors, then he needs to TRY, regardless of their chances of success. When it was 34-16 after the second Wallace TD, making it 34-18 brings it to a two score game. After the Brown TD, 34-26 would have been a one score game, which gives the Steelers a chance to recover an on-side kick and drive for the tying score. Unlikely they get 3 two-point conversions and an on-side kick? Yes. But that doesn't matter. You TRY and show you aren't just full of shit when you call yourself a competitor.

This stuff about how there are special two-point conversion plays that Tomlin holds in his pockets is complete bullshit too. Teams just run short-yardage plays for two-point conversions.

madtowndrunkard
12-10-2012, 12:51 PM
I think there are some flawed ideas of what makes a good coach and what doesn't....

Every coach and every team is judged on their own reality. Meaning ...IF I took over the HC job of the KC Cheifs next year and went 9-7 or even 8-8 I'd be given plenty of accolades... and probably a new contract if I did two years in a row. Heck if I managed to get in the playoffs and get smoked in the first round...I'd be the hero of KC.

Now put the same results in GreenBay, NE, Pittsburgh etc and those results will get you ran out of town... why? Because the talent of your team...(mostly the QB) says you better win...and win playoff games. Most of us agree Ben is a top 5 QB in this league. Most of us agree our defense is easily top 5. So losing to teams like the Chargers, Browns, Titans, and Raiders is failure on so many levels... It's indefensible. BTW...we also just barely beat the 2-11 Chiefs by an OT field goal. That's 5 games against 5 of the worst teams in the league...and we managed to win 1...barely.

You cannot defend this amount of failure... not with this talent.... This is a QB league...we have a great QB. Our players didn't suddenly just start sucking...(well besides Wallace anyway) A good coach does not let this happen 4 or 5 times in a season. Due to past success I'll give Tomlin another year to right the ship.... but if we don't go deep in the playoffs next season... he has to be fired.

lasvegasguy
12-10-2012, 03:00 PM
I guess Tomlin missed the 4th quarter of the Lions/Colts game 2 weeks ago when the Colts came back from two scores very late in the game.

Now that is being a competitor to bad I had to use the guy we fired as the example on how to coach.

sloppyjoe
12-10-2012, 03:05 PM
I think there are some flawed ideas of what makes a good coach and what doesn't....

Every coach and every team is judged on their own reality. Meaning ...IF I took over the HC job of the KC Cheifs next year and went 9-7 or even 8-8 I'd be given plenty of accolades... and probably a new contract if I did two years in a row. Heck if I managed to get in the playoffs and get smoked in the first round...I'd be the hero of KC.

Now put the same results in GreenBay, NE, Pittsburgh etc and those results will get you ran out of town... why? Because the talent of your team...(mostly the QB) says you better win...and win playoff games. Most of us agree Ben is a top 5 QB in this league. Most of us agree our defense is easily top 5. So losing to teams like the Chargers, Browns, Titans, and Raiders is failure on so many levels... It's indefensible. BTW...we also just barely beat the 2-11 Chiefs by an OT field goal. That's 5 games against 5 of the worst teams in the league...and we managed to win 1...barely.

You cannot defend this amount of failure... not with this talent.... This is a QB league...we have a great QB. Our players didn't suddenly just start sucking...(well besides Wallace anyway) A good coach does not let this happen 4 or 5 times in a season. Due to past success I'll give Tomlin another year to right the ship.... but if we don't go deep in the playoffs next season... he has to be fired.

great post.
unfortunately there are enough 'fans' that are happy winning one, losing one and pissing away another couple superbowls opportunity seasons because we have a good 5 year overall record and that's betyer than alot of teams menatlity. as long as those fans continue to fill the seats and keep rooney making big money, tomlin isnt going anywhere for quite some time.

teegre
12-10-2012, 03:06 PM
Please someone end this "Rooney Rule" experiment and get a real head coach in here, now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmmm... you might want to clarify what you mean by that.

Because, without clarification... well... currently... (to be blunt)... you sound like you do not like certain ethnicities.

lasvegasguy
12-10-2012, 03:10 PM
great post.
unfortunately there are enough 'fans' that are happy winning one, losing one and pissing away another couple superbowls opportunity seasons because we have a good 5 year overall record and that's betyer than alot of teams menatlity. as long as those fans continue to fill the seats and keep rooney making big money, tomlin isnt going anywhere for quite some time.


I see the Mark Sanchez, Rex Ryan mess in NY as the same thing that is going on Pittsburgh. Some fans say 'Hey, Mark and Rex took us to back to back AFC Championship games so we have to stick with them."

When in reality they both suck.

Same thing here. Fans are enamored by what Tomlin has done early but they forget to realize he inherited a team one year removed from the mother f-ing Super Bowl. He didn't inherit the Browns. Tomlin has been living off Cowher and the further we pull away from the first 5 years then more pathetic this team is starting to look.

torpedoshell31
12-10-2012, 03:17 PM
I think that the answer is obvious- Tomlin simply couldn't figure out mathematically that going for 2 would make it a 2 possesion game. Phil Simms actually laughed out loud at Tomlin when we kicked the extra point.

Darkstorm05
12-10-2012, 03:24 PM
I see the Mark Sanchez, Rex Ryan mess in NY as the same thing that is going on Pittsburgh. Some fans say 'Hey, Mark and Rex took us to back to back AFC Championship games so we have to stick with them."

When in reality they both suck.

Same thing here. Fans are enamored by what Tomlin has done early but they forget to realize he inherited a team one year removed from the mother f-ing Super Bowl. He didn't inherit the Browns. Tomlin has been living off Cowher and the further we pull away from the first 5 years then more pathetic this team is starting to look.

More of this Cowher shit. Some of Tomlins draft picks...

Woodley, Timmons, Pouncey, Mendenhall, Lewis, Hood, Gilbert, Heyward, Brown, Worilds, Wallace, Sanders. Take note that this list is also the majority of our best performing players. Who exactly is left from Cowher that's been a star? Polamalu plays about 10 quarters a year. Ben, obviously. Clark and Ike. Then there's...well....uhhh....right.

lasvegasguy
12-10-2012, 03:24 PM
Hmmm... you might want to clarify what you mean by that.

Because, without clarification... well... currently... (to be blunt)... you sound like you do not like certain ethnicities.

It's not that I don't like certain ethnicity. When the Rooney Rule was forced upon the league by our brilliant owners we had Bill Cowher as the coach. It was easy for the Rooney's to tell 31 other owners we need to hire more minority head coaches in the NFL because Cowher wasnt' going anywhere, anytime soon.

After Cowher decided to leave it was pretty apparent we were going to hire a minority as the next head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers come hell or high water. The Rooney's were not going to look like hypocrites by hiring some white guy like they did Cowher and Noll.

How else do you explain why we only interviewed Ken Whisenhunt, Russ Grimm, Ron Rivera and Mike Tomlin? Are you kidding me? This is the head coaching job of the Pittsburgh Steelers and this was all you had to choose from? Even the Cowboys with the micro manager Jerry Jones would have 20 guys wanting the job.

Mike Tomlin was a nobody who had one year of defensive coordinator experience and a horrific pass defense to boot. But he was black and he was our guy that's all that mattered. The Rooney's knew with the team we had that they could try and groom someone into the position. It worked early because the players were young, hungry and athletic. Now that they are getting older, lazy and replaced we need a coach and the problem is we never hired one.

lasvegasguy
12-10-2012, 03:28 PM
More of this Cowher shit. Some of Tomlins draft picks...

Woodley, Timmons, Pouncey, Mendenhall, Lewis, Hood, Gilbert, Heyward, Brown, Worilds, Wallace, Sanders. Take note that this list is also the majority of our best performing players. Who exactly is left from Cowher that's been a star? Polamalu plays about 10 quarters a year. Ben, obviously. Clark and Ike. Then there's...well....uhhh....right.

All those "great" draft picks and we haven't won the AFC North in two years. And we just lost to 4 teams this year that will have picks in the top 5 next draft.

fansince'76
12-10-2012, 03:33 PM
It's not that I don't like certain ethnicity. When the Rooney Rule was forced upon the league by our brilliant owners we had Bill Cowher as the coach. It was easy for the Rooney's to tell 31 other owners we need to hire more minority head coaches in the NFL because Cowher wasnt' going anywhere, anytime soon.

After Cowher decided to leave it was pretty apparent we were going to hire a minority as the next head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers come hell or high water. The Rooney's were not going to look like hypocrites by hiring some white guy like they did Cowher and Noll.

How else do you explain why we only interviewed Ken Whisenhunt, Russ Grimm, Ron Rivera and Mike Tomlin? Are you kidding me? This is the head coaching job of the Pittsburgh Steelers and this was all you had to choose from? Even the Cowboys with the micro manager Jerry Jones would have 20 guys wanting the job.

Mike Tomlin was a nobody who had one year of defensive coordinator experience and a horrific pass defense to boot. But he was black and he was our guy that's all that mattered. The Rooney's knew with the team we had that they could try and groom someone into the position. It worked early because the players were young, hungry and athletic. Now that they are getting older, lazy and replaced we need a coach and the problem is we never hired one.

Yeah, it was all a big conspiracy by the Rooneys!

Get a grip.

fansince'76
12-10-2012, 03:34 PM
All those "great" draft picks and we haven't won the AFC North in two years..

Two whole years! That's an ETERNITY!

Darkstorm05
12-10-2012, 03:37 PM
All those "great" draft picks and we haven't won the AFC North in two years. And we just lost to 4 teams this year that will have picks in the top 5 next draft.

2 whole years without a title. Good thing Pittsburgh has all these bridges to choose from!

TheVet
12-10-2012, 03:47 PM
Look guys, this was Tomlin's polite way of saying that he had conceded the game at that point. Obviously, he can't come right out and say that. But it it couldn't be more clear; read the decisions.

Darkstorm05
12-10-2012, 03:51 PM
Look guys, this was Tomlin's polite way of saying that he had conceded the game at that point. Obviously, he can't come right out and say that. But it it couldn't be more clear; read the decisions.

That's probably about true. Ben was a competitor...who badly needed snaps to make sure the rust is gone.

lasvegasguy
12-10-2012, 03:56 PM
Two whole years! That's an ETERNITY!

You guys act like I am talking about the Super Bowl. This coach can't even win more games than the pathetic Ravens, Browns and Bengals and his has all these magnificent draft picks to his name.

lasvegasguy
12-10-2012, 03:59 PM
Yeah, it was all a big conspiracy by the Rooneys!



Now you are getting it:applaudit:

Atlanta Dan
12-10-2012, 05:05 PM
And San Fran has won multiple Super Bowls since firing him. They certainly didn't go through any sort of playoff drought shortly after firing him. :rolleyes:

My point is that the "he has gone to two Super Bowls" is not the definitive metric of coaching greatness - Tom Flores and Seifert both won 2 Lombardis and IMO few regard either of them as great coaches

Part of being a great coach is getting your team ready to be beat the teams they are expected to beat

During the period of the Steelers' playoff run of the '70s, 1972 through '79, their record against teams that eventually finished the season below .500 was -- get ready -- 50-1. They simply did not lose to the bad teams
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/dr_z/news/2003/02/21/drz_mailbag/

For whatever reason Tomlin has had stretches in 2 seasons (2009 and 2012) where his teams dropped multiple games to inferior teams - if Brett Keisel needed to try and fire up the team during pregame yesterday it was because the HC was not getting his message across during the week during the week

As stated before, I am not saying Tomlin is a mediocre coach - but he has had a fair share of mediocre games this season

mikegrimey
12-10-2012, 05:09 PM
You guys act like I am talking about the Super Bowl. This coach can't even win more games than the pathetic Ravens, Browns and Bengals and his has all these magnificent draft picks to his name.

There's never been a season under Tomlin when we haven't won more games than the Browns, outside of 2007 when we tied at 10, but won the division due to head to head victories over them.

The only year under Tomlin we haven't won more than the Bengals was 2009.

As far as the ravens go, in 07 and 08 we won more than them and in 09-11 we tied. You're spouting grossly inaccurate statements. Tomlins winning percentage is around 66.666 maybe a bit higher or lower, we averaged 11 wins a season in his first 5 years. Again with the overreactions, we have weaknesses as a team, always have and always will, but ranting like we're failing to put up winning seasons is just insane.

Darkstorm05
12-10-2012, 05:11 PM
You guys act like I am talking about the Super Bowl. This coach can't even win more games than the pathetic Ravens, Browns and Bengals and his has all these magnificent draft picks to his name.

You're mistaking this for the AFC East. It's not like we're the Patriots playing Brady against the Jets, Phins, and Bills for 6 free wins every season. The AFC North is no shit, man. There's a reason we sent three of our division teams to the playoffs a year ago.

VictoryFormation
12-10-2012, 06:13 PM
They might as well just turn this into the, never-ending, fire Tomlin thread.
If anything, they do give Tomlin more credit than what he is due. They tout him as one of the top head coaches in the league. The truth is, he took over a team that was just one season removed from a Super Bowl victory. The general manager, the scouts, and the front office that built that team were already in place when he arrived. Dick Lebeau was already here. And, I doubt that Tomlin had full control over the hiring of the assistant coaches that were brought in when he took over.
Everything was in place, or put in place for him. It was like somebody gave him the keys to a customized automobile, and all he had to do was drive it. It was not like Tomlin came in here, and took over a team that was 1-15... put in his system, his coaches, and built a winner from nothing. Chuck Knoll did that, but Tomlin hasn't. Therefore, Mike Tomlin is still unproven as a head coach. And, he may never get the chance to prove himself in that manner. With the Steelers, his role as Head Coach seems to be more like that of a field manager in baseball. Under the Rooneys, he is forced to give up much authority to Kevin Colbert, and even his coordinators. So, when this team goes sour, you gotta look at more than just the head coach.

Steel Peon
12-10-2012, 06:20 PM
I'm alright with the decision not to go for 2, because at the time we had enough time to tie the game if you add in a FG. At that point we were barely getting anything done, so I also would've been playing conservative football, and simply trying to tie it.

jb500ex
12-10-2012, 06:21 PM
More of this Cowher shit. Some of Tomlins draft picks...

Woodley, Timmons, Pouncey, Mendenhall, Lewis, Hood, Gilbert, Heyward, Brown, Worilds, Wallace, Sanders. Take note that this list is also the majority of our best performing players. Who exactly is left from Cowher that's been a star? Polamalu plays about 10 quarters a year. Ben, obviously. Clark and Ike. Then there's...well....uhhh....right.

hate to break it to you but thats not a great list after 5 years. timmons average to bottom half ilb, mendy lmfao, lewis is finally showing signs, hood like timmons not worth a 1st rnd pick, worilds are you kidding 2 good games in his career, wallace is good but he is even going down and sanders hasnt done shit. so if this is what you have to defend homeboy it shows why we suck against anyone at anytime

Darkstorm05
12-10-2012, 06:40 PM
hate to break it to you but thats not a great list after 5 years. timmons average to bottom half ilb, mendy lmfao, lewis is finally showing signs, hood like timmons not worth a 1st rnd pick, worilds are you kidding 2 good games in his career, wallace is good but he is even going down and sanders hasnt done shit. so if this is what you have to defend homeboy it shows why we suck against anyone at anytime

Great enough to be the #1 Defense in the league, and going to the playoffs yet again. Also great enough for Tomlin to beat Cowher to the 60 win mark as HC and be on track to have a way better W-L record than Cowher. Haters gonna hate, though.

Steel Peon
12-10-2012, 06:41 PM
^ All that, plus Woodley was a rookie in '06, so that means Cowher was his first coach. If I were to start naming players who absence from our roster is affecting our team, (and drafted during the Cowher years) I'd start with Hines Ward, Aaron Smith, and James Farrior. Then I'd throw in Santonio Holmes for gee whiz's sake.

teegre
12-10-2012, 06:44 PM
It's not that I don't like certain ethnicity. When the Rooney Rule was forced upon the league by our brilliant owners we had Bill Cowher as the coach. It was easy for the Rooney's to tell 31 other owners we need to hire more minority head coaches in the NFL because Cowher wasnt' going anywhere, anytime soon.

After Cowher decided to leave it was pretty apparent we were going to hire a minority as the next head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers come hell or high water. The Rooney's were not going to look like hypocrites by hiring some white guy like they did Cowher and Noll.

How else do you explain why we only interviewed Ken Whisenhunt, Russ Grimm, Ron Rivera and Mike Tomlin? Are you kidding me? This is the head coaching job of the Pittsburgh Steelers and this was all you had to choose from? Even the Cowboys with the micro manager Jerry Jones would have 20 guys wanting the job.

Mike Tomlin was a nobody who had one year of defensive coordinator experience and a horrific pass defense to boot. But he was black and he was our guy that's all that mattered. The Rooney's knew with the team we had that they could try and groom someone into the position. It worked early because the players were young, hungry and athletic. Now that they are getting older, lazy and replaced we need a coach and the problem is we never hired one.

FYI: Ron Rivera was not (& is still not) white.

Darkstorm05
12-10-2012, 06:45 PM
^ All that, plus Woodley was a rookie in '06, so that means Cowher was his first coach. If I were to start naming players who absence from our roster is affecting our team, (and drafted during the Cowher years) I'd start with Hines Ward, Aaron Smith, and James Farrior. Then I'd throw in Santonio Holmes for gee whiz's sake.

Woodley was the 46th pick in 2007. The team seemed to feel Foote was a better choice than Farrior. I solidly disagreed with that. I missed Ward at first, but think Brown will more than replace him. Smith...well, no replacement possible there.

teegre
12-10-2012, 06:52 PM
Great enough to be the #1 Defense in the league, and going to the playoffs yet again. Also great enough for Tomlin to beat Cowher to the 60 win mark as HC and be on track to have a way better W-L record than Cowher. Haters gonna hate, though.

I concur.

I loved Cowher, but if we are going to talk about inheriting a team...

Cowher inhereted Greg Lloyd, Barry Foster, Eric Green, Carnell Lake, Rod Woodson, Ernie Mills, Carlton Haselrig, Dermontti Dawson, John Jackson, Justin Strylzyck, Gary Jones, Jerrol Williams, Gerald Williams, Thomas Everett, Meril Hoge, Hardy Nickerson... and went to the AFCCG in 1994 and the SuperBowl with Noll's players.

steelcity1974
12-10-2012, 07:13 PM
His reasoning goes against his entire coaching philosophy and tells me a lot about why played so bad...poor coaching and lousy preparation.

madtowndrunkard
12-11-2012, 09:27 AM
I concur.

I loved Cowher, but if we are going to talk about inheriting a team...

Cowher inhereted Greg Lloyd, Barry Foster, Eric Green, Carnell Lake, Rod Woodson, Ernie Mills, Carlton Haselrig, Dermontti Dawson, John Jackson, Justin Strylzyck, Gary Jones, Jerrol Williams, Gerald Williams, Thomas Everett, Meril Hoge, Hardy Nickerson... and went to the AFCCG in 1994 and the SuperBowl with Noll's players.


Oddly enough those players shined under the coaching of Bill Cowher... so i'm thinking your point is lost.

IMO a great coach has as much to do with your drafted players success as your scouting dept. There's a reason why many players over the years have found success with new coaches or new teams.

I think your post only supports the opinion of many that Tomlin just isn't a very good coach. He's really struggled to develop pro bowl caliber players..... many of Tomlin's picks have shown flashes of brilliance...but none of them have really been consistently good.

Keisel said it him self... the team was not prepared for that game... they weren't even ready for the fake punt (that the charges have used before) That is a shot right across the bow of Mike Tomlin.... When a player says they weren't prepared - that's a player calling out his coaches. Lets hope they hear the message.

GoFor7
12-11-2012, 09:31 AM
Keisel said it him self... the team was not prepared for that game... they weren't even ready for the fake punt (that the charges have used before) That is a shot right across the bow of Mike Tomlin.... When a player says they weren't prepared - that's a player calling out his coaches. Lets hope they hear the message.

Being that this is the fourth lost to a team the Steelers had no business losing to, I somehow doubt the message will get across. Otherwise, the Steelers would probably be 10-3 or maybe even 11-2.

Steel_Bus_24
12-11-2012, 09:58 AM
Being that this is the fourth lost to a team the Steelers had no business losing to, I somehow doubt the message will get across. Otherwise, the Steelers would probably be 10-3 or maybe even 11-2.


Seriously........I would have thought just this past off-season with all the Tebow Legend telling, that that would piss them off to the point to where they wouldn't be overlooking anybody

But here they are doing it the whole season pretty much.....

In those 4 games, they looked like they didn't practice all week and slept in on Gameday only to be woken up 15 minutes before kickoff and thrown out onto the field dazed and confused.

GoFor7
12-11-2012, 02:52 PM
Double post

GoFor7
12-11-2012, 02:53 PM
Pretty good rant from Dejan Kovacevic about Tomlin's stupidity from his press conference earlier today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SeHw_1fnJsw

teegre
12-11-2012, 02:59 PM
Oddly enough those players shined under the coaching of Bill Cowher... so i'm thinking your point is lost.

IMO a great coach has as much to do with your drafted players success as your scouting dept. There's a reason why many players over the years have found success with new coaches or new teams.

I think your post only supports the opinion of many that Tomlin just isn't a very good coach. He's really struggled to develop pro bowl caliber players..... many of Tomlin's picks have shown flashes of brilliance...but none of them have really been consistently good.

Keisel said it him self... the team was not prepared for that game... they weren't even ready for the fake punt (that the charges have used before) That is a shot right across the bow of Mike Tomlin.... When a player says they weren't prepared - that's a player calling out his coaches. Lets hope they hear the message.

Here is the thing, some people do not want to acknowledge anything that Tomlin has done. Cowher & Tomlin can do the same thing(s), and while Cowher is considered a genius… Tomlin is considered to be a horrible coach.

For example…

FIRST FOUR YEARS
Cowher inhereited a bunch of players from Noll. They went to one SuperBowl, and lost it.

Tomlin inhereited a bunch of players from Cowher. They went to two SuperBowls, winning one & losing the other.

2 SuperBowls > 1 SuperBowl

1 Lombardi > 0 Lombardis

PLAYERS SHINING UNDER THEIR NEW COACH
You state that Cowher got the most out of those players from Noll.

The same can be said about Tomlin. James Harrison was rotting on the bench, until Tomlin inserted him into the starting line-up. Likewise, Troy & Harrison both won the DPOY award, something that neither did (nor ANY player did) under Cowher.

NOT PREPARED
You aver that these losses to bad teams are due to not being prepared.

I remember two of the worst losses in Steelers history were the 1994 AFCCG and the 2001 AFCCG. In 1994, the team made a SuperBowl video, prior to that game. Likewise, in 2001, the team booked their hotel rooms for the SuperBowl, before they actually played in that game, as well. Talk about not “preparing” your team in the proper manner.

COWHER NEVER HAD BIG BEN
…and Cowher never wanted Big Ben. Cowher wanted Shawn Andrews (OT). Maybe the reason that Cowher never had an elite QB, is because he passed on guys like Drew Brees… just as he tried to pass on Big Ben.

Heck, even after drafting BB, Cowher was going to sit BB on the bench until Tommy Maddox retired. Luckily, due to injury, BB was forced to play. Again, maybe Cowher never had an elite QB, because he did not want one (or didn't understand what an elite QB truly was).

fansince'76
12-11-2012, 03:04 PM
COWHER NEVER HAD BIG BEN
…and Cowher never wanted Big Ben. Cowher wanted Shawn Andrews (OT). Maybe the reason that Cowher never had an elite QB, is because he passed on guys like Drew Brees… just as he tried to pass on Big Ben.

Heck, even after drafting BB, Cowher was going to sit BB on the bench until Tommy Maddox retired. Luckily, due to injury, BB was forced to play. Again, maybe Cowher never had an elite QB, because he did not want one (or didn't understand what an elite QB truly was).

Yep. Cowher mismanaged the QB position, no question about it. The Kordell experiment should have ended in 1999. It continued for three years after that.

Fire Arians
12-11-2012, 03:05 PM
Yep. Cowher mismanaged the QB position, no question about it. The Kordell experiment should have ended in 1999. It continued for three years after that.

If he kept O'Donnell he probably would have won another, or couple more.

say what you want about Neil, but he was a good quarterback, the best outside of the ben/bradshaw eras. Keeping neil also would have kept kordell in his 'slash' position, where he was the most dangerous

fansince'76
12-11-2012, 03:14 PM
If he kept O'Donnell he probably would have won another, or couple more.

say what you want about Neil, but he was a good quarterback, the best outside of the ben/bradshaw eras. Keeping neil also would have kept kordell in his 'slash' position, where he was the most dangerous

His 16-23 record as a starter after leaving Pittsburgh suggests otherwise. And saying he was the best QB outside of Bradshaw and Ben isn't really saying much either. He was a middling journeyman QB - nothing more, nothing less.

Stairway to 7
12-11-2012, 03:14 PM
Very accurate portrayal, Tomlin is the 'Peter Principle' personified.

teegre
12-11-2012, 03:14 PM
Yep. Cowher mismanaged the QB position, no question about it. The Kordell experiment should have ended in 1999. It continued for three years after that.

I remember vividly, the discussions before the 2001 draft... and most Steelers fans were raving about Drew Brees. Everyone knew that he'd be good, and that he'd drop in the draft, because he was "under 6 feet tall."

Honestly, I can't argue with the Casey Hampton pick; he solidified that defense (making them #1 immediately)... but... when people try to say that Cowher never had the opportunity to draft a franchise QB (the Steelers always draft too late), I think of Brees.

Fire Arians
12-11-2012, 03:16 PM
His 16-23 record as a starter after leaving Pittsburgh suggests otherwise. And saying he was the best QB outside of Bradshaw and Ben isn't really saying much either. He was a middling journeyman QB - nothing more, nothing less.

Look where he went, to the bottom feeding (at the time) Jets team that wasn't going anywhere and looking to just rebuild.

teegre
12-11-2012, 03:17 PM
If he kept O'Donnell he probably would have won another, or couple more.

say what you want about Neil, but he was a good quarterback, the best outside of the ben/bradshaw eras. Keeping neil also would have kept kordell in his 'slash' position, where he was the most dangerous

There was NO way that Cowher was keeping "unnamed" after he was PAID off to throw those gimme INTs to Larry Brown.

NO way.

That was the best thing that Cowher ever did. Cowher didn't even TRY to re-sign "unnamed."

And, Yes, I am bitter (just as Cowher was).

GoFor7
12-11-2012, 03:19 PM
Would you say the Steelers mismanaged the QB position in the 80's and 90's because they badly misjudged the talent level of guys like O'Donnell and Stewart? Or would you say they just felt they could get by without one by a strong running game and defense?

fansince'76
12-11-2012, 03:20 PM
Look where he went, to the bottom feeding (at the time) Jets team that wasn't going anywhere and looking to just rebuild.

A "bottom feeding" Jets team that all of a sudden went to the AFC title game the year after Parcells ran him out of the Big Apple on a rail and started Testaverde. That's right - Vinny Testaverde.

teegre
12-11-2012, 03:22 PM
Would you say the Steelers mismanaged the QB position in the 80's and 90's because they badly misjudged the talent level of guys like O'Donnell and Stewart? Or would you say they just felt they could get by without one by a strong running game and defense?

Great question... a good debate starter. Hmmm... let me get back to you.

Again, great question.

zcoop
12-11-2012, 07:29 PM
If he kept O'Donnell he probably would have won another, or couple more.

say what you want about Neil, but he was a good quarterback, the best outside of the ben/bradshaw eras. Keeping neil also would have kept kordell in his 'slash' position, where he was the most dangerous

You're kidding, right? C'Mon Man! Thats BS.

jiminpa
12-11-2012, 07:37 PM
Agreed, game's over at that point. Much ado about nothing. If he had gone for it and missed, he'd have some bitching there too. Damn, can't make this shit up, can we?After what he is doing to Mendy but won't do to his pets, I have lost any small amount of respect I may have had for Tomlin, but I won't make up reasons, (I don't need to). There was nothing wrong with taking the field goal there. Like Zcoop said, imagine the hatred if we had gone for two and not made it. That would have been as patently stupid as the fake punt or field goal, or whichever moronic fake that was earlier this year. He did the right thing this time.

maddog78
12-11-2012, 07:45 PM
I remember vividly, the discussions before the 2001 draft... and most Steelers fans were raving about Drew Brees. Everyone knew that he'd be good, and that he'd drop in the draft, because he was "under 6 feet tall."

Honestly, I can't argue with the Casey Hampton pick; he solidified that defense (making them #1 immediately)... but... when people try to say that Cowher never had the opportunity to draft a franchise QB (the Steelers always draft too late), I think of Brees.

Dawson, Unitas, Montana, Marino, Brady. This team has been passing on franchise QB's for decades.

jiminpa
12-11-2012, 07:51 PM
How many of those QB personnel decisions were made by Cowher, and how many were made by the guy who chased Rod Woodson out of town so he could afford the upgrade to Chad Scott?

madtowndrunkard
12-11-2012, 09:26 PM
Here is the thing, some people do not want to acknowledge anything that Tomlin has done. Cowher & Tomlin can do the same thing(s), and while Cowher is considered a genius… Tomlin is considered to be a horrible coach.

For example…

FIRST FOUR YEARS
Cowher inhereited a bunch of players from Noll. They went to one SuperBowl, and lost it.

Tomlin inhereited a bunch of players from Cowher. They went to two SuperBowls, winning one & losing the other.

2 SuperBowls > 1 SuperBowl

1 Lombardi > 0 Lombardis

PLAYERS SHINING UNDER THEIR NEW COACH
You state that Cowher got the most out of those players from Noll.

The same can be said about Tomlin. James Harrison was rotting on the bench, until Tomlin inserted him into the starting line-up. Likewise, Troy & Harrison both won the DPOY award, something that neither did (nor ANY player did) under Cowher.

NOT PREPARED
You aver that these losses to bad teams are due to not being prepared.

I remember two of the worst losses in Steelers history were the 1994 AFCCG and the 2001 AFCCG. In 1994, the team made a SuperBowl video, prior to that game. Likewise, in 2001, the team booked their hotel rooms for the SuperBowl, before they actually played in that game, as well. Talk about not “preparing” your team in the proper manner.

COWHER NEVER HAD BIG BEN
…and Cowher never wanted Big Ben. Cowher wanted Shawn Andrews (OT). Maybe the reason that Cowher never had an elite QB, is because he passed on guys like Drew Brees… just as he tried to pass on Big Ben.

Heck, even after drafting BB, Cowher was going to sit BB on the bench until Tommy Maddox retired. Luckily, due to injury, BB was forced to play. Again, maybe Cowher never had an elite QB, because he did not want one (or didn't understand what an elite QB truly was).

Dude.. you are crazy...

Cowher inherited a BAD team.... He took over a team that was not expected to do anything. He took a bad team and made them a good team...and he did it with his own system, his own people, and his own ideas. Bill Cowher rebuilt the steelers and brought us back to greatness... we had success during that decade that very few teams could match. He showed that team how to win. Most of those players were not so special until Cowher took over the team and started winning. So to say Cowher took over the same thing Tomlin took over is completely crazy. I mean seriously .... go sell that BS to someone else. Wow... to think someone actually believes that BS... it's hilarious.


As for the QB... Cowher didn't do the scouting...he didn't do the drafting... he did not get that kind of pull in the organization till later in his career. He probably made mistakes trying to fill the position out of desperation...but no question for many years he was given a bad QB... and he managed to go deep in the playoffs on a regular basis with a bad QB.

As for worst losses in steelers history? Losing the AFCC game twice? really? You think that's worse then our loss to Denver last season? I think not. worse then losing to the Browns, Chargers, Raiders, and Titans in a matter of a couple months.... I think I'll take an AFCC loss to not winning a single playoff game with the #1 defense and Ben as our QB over this season and last.

Say what you want about Cowher or Tomlin... there is no way you can argue that this team is NOT under achieving (this season and last) ... Nor can you argue that Cowher's teams were under achieving during his first 5-6 years. No one with any football sense would agree.

oh and something else that's worth noting... Bill Cowher had to beat the Tom Brady led patriots during the peak of their cheating scandal that directly led to several Patriots SB births. If I remember correctly the Pats took us down in 3 AFCC games... was it 3 or 2? and they did it by cheating.

madtowndrunkard
12-11-2012, 09:32 PM
How many of those QB personnel decisions were made by Cowher, and how many were made by the guy who chased Rod Woodson out of town so he could afford the upgrade to Chad Scott?


Cowher didn't get that kind of pull with in the organization till later in his career. No matter what you say there are those that will fore ever blame Cowher for a string of bad drafts made by the front office. The funny thing is once Cowher did start having heavy influence in drafts/personnel decisions , the drafts got better and we won 2 SB's because of it.

teegre
12-11-2012, 11:41 PM
Dude.. you are crazy...

Cowher inherited a BAD team.... He took over a team that was not expected to do anything. He took a bad team and made them a good team...and he did it with his own system, his own people, and his own ideas. Bill Cowher rebuilt the steelers and brought us back to greatness... we had success during that decade that very few teams could match. He showed that team how to win. Most of those players were not so special until Cowher took over the team and started winning. So to say Cowher took over the same thing Tomlin took over is completely crazy. I mean seriously .... go sell that BS to someone else. Wow... to think someone actually believes that BS... it's hilarious.


As for the QB... Cowher didn't do the scouting...he didn't do the drafting... he did not get that kind of pull in the organization till later in his career. He probably made mistakes trying to fill the position out of desperation...but no question for many years he was given a bad QB... and he managed to go deep in the playoffs on a regular basis with a bad QB.

As for worst losses in steelers history? Losing the AFCC game twice? really? You think that's worse then our loss to Denver last season? I think not. worse then losing to the Browns, Chargers, Raiders, and Titans in a matter of a couple months.... I think I'll take an AFCC loss to not winning a single playoff game with the #1 defense and Ben as our QB over this season and last.

Say what you want about Cowher or Tomlin... there is no way you can argue that this team is NOT under achieving (this season and last) ... Nor can you argue that Cowher's teams were under achieving during his first 5-6 years. No one with any football sense would agree.

oh and something else that's worth noting... Bill Cowher had to beat the Tom Brady led patriots during the peak of their cheating scandal that directly led to several Patriots SB births. If I remember correctly the Pats took us down in 3 AFCC games... was it 3 or 2? and they did it by cheating.

Here we go again.

I iterate (because, I think that you may have missed this first part): some people do not want to acknowledge anything that Tomlin has done. Cowher & Tomlin can do the same thing(s), and while Cowher is considered a genius… Tomlin is considered a horrible coach.

We all agree that Cowher was effing great… but, some people seem to think that giving Tomlin credit for winning somehow takes away from Cowher. They BOTH can be great; it is not an "either/or" situation. Make sense?

REBUILDING
You keep bringing up how Cowher rebuilt the Steelers… but, then you turn right around & say that he was not responsible for drafting those players in his early years. Which is it?

Furthermore, you keep bringing up that Tomlin inherited a group of good players, and as I've mentioned, Cowher inherited a team rife with talent. Unless… hmmm… do you think that Greg Lloyd, Carnell Lake, Rod Woodson, Thomas Everett, and four-fifths of a 90s O-line were (as you stated) BAD?… maybe those players are (as you also stated) "not so special"???

Both coaches inherited a bunch of talent… yet, you praise Cowher, while saying that Tomlin sucks.

COACHING
You say that Cowher got the best out of players, well, so has Tomlin. Again, it seems as though you missed this part of my post, as well. Hence, I'll say it again.

James Harrison was rotting on the bench, until Tomlin inserted him into the starting line-up. Likewise, Troy & Harrison both won the DPOY award, something that neither did (nor ANY player did) under Cowher.

Both coaches got the most out of their players… yet, you praise Cowher, while saying that Tomlin sucks.

DRAFT
Here is the thing that gets me about Tomlin haters. They continuously flip-flop about the draft.

Mendenspin is a bad pick… blame Tomlin.
Woodley is a great pick… praise Colbert; Tomlin had nothing to do with it.

BUT, these same people say the opposite about Cowher.

Jamain Stephens… blame the GM. Cowher was not responsible for that pick.
Alan Faneca… Cowher is a great evaluator of talent.

BETTER YET…

Casey Hampton in the 2001 draft… Cowher made a great pick.
Passing on Drew Brees in 2001… Cowher didn't have control of draft picks.

You can't have it both ways.

And, of course, the biggest decision of Cowher's career: Big Ben. I repeat: Cowher never wanted Big Ben. Cowher wanted Shawn Andrews (OT).

WORST LOSSES
In one of their championship seasons, Dallas lost TWICE to a 3-13 Washington team. Talk about the best losing to the worst. Two of Dallas's three losses came against the worst team in the league. But, they won the championship.

The following year, the Steelers lost in the AFCCG.

I would much rather lose TWICE to the WORST team in the league and still win the SuperBowl, than to lose ANY play-off game. Honestly, wouldn't you give up two regular season losses for a SuperBowl win???

ANALOGY
Tomlin & Cowher are playing golf. Cowher hits a hole in one, and the Steelers fans praise him. Tomlin hits a hole in one… and Steelers fans say that it was the clubs, or that Cowher went first, or et cetera.

Both coaches hit a hole in one… yet, you praise Cowher, while saying that Tomlin sucks.

All that I am asking for, is that you at least give Tomlin credit for the things that he did the SAME as Cowher. Make sense?

AGREED
The Taperiots stole three SuperBowls from the league (and two AFCCGs from the Steelers). We agree 100% on that. That is why I hate them more than I hate the Ravens.

NavinRJohnson
12-12-2012, 01:44 AM
Good luck making sense of it, per Dejan Kovacevic's Sulia:
Quote:
Mike Tomlin's odd explanation for not going to two when it was 34-16 ... READ MORE:

Mike Tomlin was asked why he didn't go for two when the Steelers pulled within 34-16. A 34-18 deficit sets up a situation where they can tie with two TDs: "Until we stopped them, it was going to be insignificant. I was holding the two-point plays for that reason and that reason only. Now, we still have them in our hip pocket. Those specialty plays, we didn't want to put on tope unless we had an opportunity to close the gap. As you can see, we didn't." ... Good luck making sense of that.


So.... how many super-secret special plays does a team really have for a 4th&G-from-inside-the-5 situation (effectively, what a 2pt try amounts to)
i'd expect to have damned near the entire playbook available there, so what's MT trying to keep under wraps?

Booted
12-12-2012, 02:22 AM
Some of Tomlin's plays are so good, they could only be used on the most special of occasions. Kinda like grandma's fine china.

Stairway to 7
12-12-2012, 08:32 AM
Tomlin's grace period is well and truly over I thin k we can all agree on that, he's going to be watched much more closely by the fans from now on.

His shit 'aint flying any more.

GoFor7
12-12-2012, 09:26 AM
Tomlin's grace period is well and truly over I thin k we can all agree on that, he's going to be watched much more closely by the fans from now on.

His shit 'aint flying any more.

Perhaps these utterly stupid comments from Tomlin aren't stupid at all - they're arrogant. He has job security. No fear about the nonsensical things he says to the media. No fear about not getting the players ready against bad teams. No fear about poor game management. The fact that this has been allowed to go on says the people above Tomlin in the organization aren't paying close enough attention.

fansince'76
12-12-2012, 10:40 AM
As for worst losses in steelers history? Losing the AFCC game twice? really? You think that's worse then our loss to Denver last season? I think not.

Yes, losing to that Stan Humphries-led Chargers team at HOME in 1994 as a one seed was worse. Much worse. Last year's team was a frigging MASH unit that I really had no expectations for going into the postseason. 1994 was different.

fansince'76
12-12-2012, 10:41 AM
Tomlin's grace period is well and truly over I thin k we can all agree on that, he's going to be watched much more closely by the fans from now on.

That's nice, but the fans don't sign his paycheck...

Steel Peon
12-12-2012, 11:14 AM
Woodley was the 46th pick in 2007
Yeah, I guess you're right. I could've sworn I heard his name earlier than that, but it'd be hella nice to have his 2nd year's performance at any future point. And, it actually supports the sentiment proposed that Tomlin has been too soft on his players.

Stairway to 7
12-12-2012, 11:21 AM
That's nice, but the fans don't sign his paycheck...

We don't but that doesn't mean we have to bend over and just accept his nonsense.