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desertsteel
12-11-2012, 12:33 AM
What do you think the one thing we lack is?

For me, I'd say PLAYMAKERS. We have Ben, and sometimes AB, but on D... zilch. We have some solid play, like Clark and Timmons, but nothing like when Harrison and Troy were at their peak. I mean, if you think Troy is the same Troy for the past couple years, just youtube his highlights and watch the crazy game-changing plays he made in the past. That's all gone. We need playmakers to change the momentum of games IMO.

SoCalFan
12-11-2012, 12:46 AM
Huh? We have plenty of playmakers! We are lacking leadership to light a fire under these guys asses when we play lesser teams!

tony hipchest
12-11-2012, 12:48 AM
lets be honest...

every team lacks defensive MVP's like troy and harrison in their peak and the 2 SB's they have won us in the past 10 years.

ravens have suggs, reed, and lewis, and only won 1 SB before suggs and ed even got their. giants have won sb's.

after that, who is there?

this year we have lacked luck, health, and a killer instinct when facing the scrub teams.

StainlessStill
12-11-2012, 12:50 AM
Consistency. We lack consistency.

4xSBChamps
12-11-2012, 12:57 AM
Consistency. We lack consistency.

living in Florida, I don't get to see many Steeler games, but what I heard Sunday evening by one of the talking-heads on ESPN when discussing the team's woes is something I have noticed when I do get to watch them play

"... you can't have an ad-lib'd, scramble & throw the ball on every play as an offensive scheme...

... I don't care how-good your QB is at extending-plays, nor how-much pain he can tolerate..."

SteelBobbleHead
12-11-2012, 12:58 AM
Huh? We have plenty of playmakers! We are lacking leadership to light a fire under these guys asses when we play lesser teams!

^ :drink: IMO we have not had anyone step up to fill the void in leadership. The D had that in Pottsy and the O in Hines. I could be wrong on the defensive side as Ryan Clark has done a great job on the field.

desertsteel
12-11-2012, 01:03 AM
Huh? We have plenty of playmakers! We are lacking leadership to light a fire under these guys asses when we play lesser teams!

Really? Tell me, who are the playmaking game-changers on defense? Do you realize where we rank in sacks and takeaways? Give me their names because I don't see them.

tony hipchest
12-11-2012, 01:16 AM
^ :drink: IMO we have not had anyone step up to fill the void in leadership. The D had that in Pottsy and the O in Hines. I could be wrong on the defensive side as Ryan Clark has done a great job on the field.

mike logan cited the leadership in 2005 when the steelers were slumping after their 15-1 season in 2004.

they rode the inspiration of jerome to the SB and delivered a win in his hometown as they sent him off into the sunset.

we then lost players like jerome, von oelhoffen, stc, and there was a void in 2006 as the team started out 2-6 and lost many games similar to the ones lost this season.

i agree there is a leadership void.

as great as players like troy, clark, harrison, are, they are foot soldiers. ben leads as much as he can, but ultimately he has a job to do other than cheerlead and motivate.

we really got nobody to take up the torch players like porter and farrior left behind.

SteelersCanada
12-11-2012, 01:16 AM
The lack of consistent and efficient pressure on the quarterback. That reason alone can be attributed to why we aren't creating turnovers. Lack of pressure = time in the pocket. Time in the pocket = precise throws. Precise throws = no interceptions.

The lack of pressure is killing us right now. Asking Ike to cover for 6 seconds is ridiculous, but he's been doing it for most of the year.

Rockonsteel
12-11-2012, 07:29 AM
Really? Tell me, who are the playmaking game-changers on defense? Do you realize where we rank in sacks and takeaways? Give me their names because I don't see them.

Still no response yet. :noidea:

Not surprised. I imagine he's still scouring the roster with a fine tooth comb and a magnifying glass, trying to find that answer for you. You may be waiting a while.

Troy and Debo are shells of their former selves. Woodley is inconsistent and can't stay healthy. So, really, who is there? Certainly not the likes of Jason Worilds, Ryan Mundy or Curtis Brown.

So, yeah I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that answer.


Rockon

maddog78
12-11-2012, 07:32 AM
We could have playmakers on defense if they weren't coached to "tackle the catch" and play "read and react" contain on the DL.

LeBeau wants to play prevent and limit the big play, which does exactly that for the defense, too. Woodley is hurt and Harrison and Troy have both been hurt and are aging, too. Everyone else is playing scared and trying to wrap up after the catch, like they've been told.

Darkstorm05
12-11-2012, 07:43 AM
If you don't think Clark is a playmaker, there's no hope for you. The perfectly timed hits he's laid in on receivers has changed the course of games. Victor Cruz getting blown up in the Giants game was a huge play for us. Go back and watch the Redskins game, and look at all the dropped balls because the WR's were too busy looking around for the guy that was going to splatter them all over the field. Nobody else remember Clark taking out Wes Welker when he tried to come across the middle?

TRH
12-11-2012, 07:52 AM
we have 'playmakers'. No worries there.
But things we're missing??

1 - special teams play "penalty free" (or close to it)
2 - a "leader of men" on the field (a Ray Lewis, a Joey Porter, a Clay Matthews, etc)
3 - a good, consistent running back (none of the 3 have really excelled)
4 - health (i've never seen so many injuries)
5 - putting pressure on QB's/pass rush (what the hell happened to our pass rush??)
6 - defense "stripping" balls/fumbles (watch other teams try and "claw" and knock the ball out...we don't)
7 - INT's. Ever see so many passes fall right in defenders hands...only to fall to the ground??

We have playmakers. But we're missing all those things....badly. The only area i see us really needing a "playmaker" is on the defensive line. A case could also be made for us having a good LB's crew - but we're getting very few "big plays" out of them, either.

Stairway to 7
12-11-2012, 07:58 AM
Pass rusher and a feature back. Enough of this RBBC crap. You got four RB's you 'aint got one.

We never get TO's these days, that is killing us, every single drive the defense has to make a stop on downs, and with short field it's not always possible, also we never hand the ball to our offense inside their 30 yard line or so.

Punter, this guy stinks man, I watch guys routinely booming it 60 yards and this guy struggles to get it anywhere.

steeltheone
12-11-2012, 08:40 AM
If you don't think Clark is a playmaker, there's no hope for you. The perfectly timed hits he's laid in on receivers has changed the course of games. Victor Cruz getting blown up in the Giants game was a huge play for us. Go back and watch the Redskins game, and look at all the dropped balls because the WR's were too busy looking around for the guy that was going to splatter them all over the field. Nobody else remember Clark taking out Wes Welker when he tried to come across the middle?

Clark is a monster hitter but his coverage skills are very average. Playmakers are game changers...very few are.

desertsteel
12-11-2012, 09:02 AM
If you don't think Clark is a playmaker, there's no hope for you. The perfectly timed hits he's laid in on receivers has changed the course of games. Victor Cruz getting blown up in the Giants game was a huge play for us. Go back and watch the Redskins game, and look at all the dropped balls because the WR's were too busy looking around for the guy that was going to splatter them all over the field. Nobody else remember Clark taking out Wes Welker when he tried to come across the middle?

Yeah I acknowledge Clark's plays. But I'm talking about game changing, momentum turning plays at crucial times in the game. Those are absent.

Stairway to 7
12-11-2012, 09:05 AM
Yeah I acknowledge Clark's plays. But I'm talking about game changing, momentum turning plays at crucial times in the game. Those are absent.


We just don't get that pick SIX, or that TO deep in THEIR half of the field. And we constantly lose the field posi game because the punter is terrible.

Rockonsteel
12-11-2012, 09:15 AM
we have 'playmakers'. No worries there.
But things we're missing??

1 - special teams play "penalty free" (or close to it)
2 - a "leader of men" on the field (a Ray Lewis, a Joey Porter, a Clay Matthews, etc)
3 - a good, consistent running back (none of the 3 have really excelled)
4 - health (i've never seen so many injuries)
5 - putting pressure on QB's/pass rush (what the hell happened to our pass rush??)
6 - defense "stripping" balls/fumbles (watch other teams try and "claw" and knock the ball out...we don't)
7 - INT's. Ever see so many passes fall right in defenders hands...only to fall to the ground??We have playmakers. But we're missing all those things....badly. The only area i see us really needing a "playmaker" is on the defensive line. A case could also be made for us having a good LB's crew - but we're getting very few "big plays" out of them, either.

First off, I think the OP originally said specifically, DEFENSIVE playmakers. We know we have playmakers on offense, they just underachieve for whatever reason.

And second, the above highlighted items, are the exact plays that make DEFENSIVE playmakers, DEFENSIVE playmakers. And since, you acknowledge that said items are missing, that would suggest that the Steelers are lacking in the DEFENSIVE playmakers department. Just sayin'....

Rockon

Steelerfreak58
12-11-2012, 09:26 AM
The last few years the Steelers won most of the close games. We play down to teams levels we have been doing that for years now. It is nothing new or shocking really. The team never puts its foot on other teams throats and keeps them down. This year a lot of games have been playing from behind.

This year we are losing those close games. That is the difference. Loss to Oakland, Titans (OT), Browns, all came down to last minutes of the games. KC (OT win but still a sad game). You keep things close in the 4th quarter in this league with the way the rules have changed to help Offenses you are in trouble.

Injuries have decimated the team.

New offensive system in place.

People dropping passes and picks....

O-Line being a musical chairs guessing game...

So many reasons as to why this is a mediocre team.

TRH
12-11-2012, 09:31 AM
First off, I think the OP originally said specifically, DEFENSIVE playmakers. We know we have playmakers on offense, they just underachieve for whatever reason.

And second, the above highlighted items, are the exact plays that make DEFENSIVE playmakers, DEFENSIVE playmakers. And since, you acknowledge that said items are missing, that would suggest that the Steelers are lacking in the DEFENSIVE playmakers department. Just sayin'....

Rockon


actually, no, thats not really a good 'synopsis' of what i said.......

I'm aware we have "playmakers" on defense. Woodley, Troy, Timmons, Ike...all these guys are playmakers. But there's not much, if any, execution on the field. INT's are not being made. Strip fumbles are not being caused. Beating offensive blockers isn't being done. Etc. Etc. Etc.
There's key things we're missing on both sides of the ball.

madtowndrunkard
12-11-2012, 09:32 AM
When you lose 4 games the likes of the: Chargers, Raiders, Browns, and Titans.. I think the problem is deeper then just players not getting it done... IMO this is probably the worst coaching performance I've seen in Pittsburgh in my life time.... sure we've had worse seasons record wise...but we've never been this bad with so much potential. This is a playoff team that is losing to the worst in the NFL..and doing it on a regular basis.

How do you beat Baltimore, Washington, and Cincinati...but can barely get over the Cheifs..and lose to 4 of the worst teams in the league? If you told me that we'd have 4 losses to these teams when the season started...I'd tell you our record must be near the league bottom. The fact that we have beat decent teams only proves my point... this teams leadership has failed miserable. This doesn't happen in pittsburgh...but it is this season.. Tomlin shoulders 90% of the blame for this season. He should get one more year to right the ship...if he doesn't...find a coach who can. We don't need a HOF coach... all we need is someone who doesn't lose games for us.

This team lacks leadership.

TRH
12-11-2012, 09:37 AM
When you lose 4 games the likes of the: Chargers, Raiders, Browns, and Titans.. I think the problem is deeper then just players not getting it done... IMO this is probably the worst coaching performance I've seen in Pittsburgh in my life time.... sure we've had worse seasons record wise...but we've never been this bad with so much potential. This is a playoff team that is losing to the worst in the NFL..and doing it on a regular basis.

How do you beat Baltimore, Washington, and Cincinati...but can barely get over the Cheifs..and lose to 4 of the worst teams in the league? If you told me that we'd have 4 losses to these teams when the season started...I'd tell you our record must be near the league bottom. The fact that we have beat decent teams only proves my point... this teams leadership has failed miserable. This doesn't happen in pittsburgh...but it is this season.. Tomlin shoulders 90% of the blame for this season. He should get one more year to right the ship...if he doesn't...find a coach who can. We don't need a HOF coach... all we need is someone who doesn't lose games for us.

This team lacks leadership.


Its hard to argue.....I like Tomlin and lets face it : he's going to be here for a LOOOOOOONG time.
The issue i see is that they come out on the field on Sundays and look at them. Even in pre-game warmups, they look slow, non-chalant, kinda just hanging around.....if you look closely, it wouldnt' surprise me to see a few "yawns" as if they just got out of bed.
In contrast i've taken notice of the other side (even the Browns for gods sakes) in many games. And again, even in the pre-games. Chest-bumpin', yelling, high-fiving, fist-pumpin. Is there a reason we're not seeing that on THIS side?? Look no further than the Patriots last night................

madtowndrunkard
12-11-2012, 09:37 AM
Besides the inability to build a disciplined team, Tomlin also struggles with simple game decisions. I was ok with it during his first couple years.... but now there's no excuse. Not going for a 2 point conversion is probably a meaningless mistake...but it's still a simple mistake. Going for it on 4 down at mid field when the game was still relatively close is just stupid... and how many 4th down attempts has Tomlin failed at? How many ill advised moves like that does it take to learn your lesson?

The coaches job is to put the team in position to win. When exactly do you think we were in a position to take over that game? We weren't even ready when the game started.

plenewken
12-11-2012, 10:04 AM
We are lacking a lot of things, starting with leadership, on the field and off the field.

Have you ever seem Tomlin go ballistic at his players on the sideline? Have you ever seem him grab one guy and blast him during the game? He has no reaction.
Look no further why we don't seem to be motivated. He doesn't seem to be either. I can understand that from Lebau who's 75yo but not from Tomlin. We don't need an intellectual of the game, we need a LEADER, kicking @ss when it's deserved, putting fire under the guys' @ss.

Also, who's leader amongst players? Ben? Who else? I don't think we have found a replacement for Farrior, Ward just to name a few.

Next, what else are we lacking? Playmakers, both on offense and defense.

If we were making plays on offense, we wouldn't be ranked 21st in total points scored, 21st in points per game, we wouldn't be ranked 18th in totalyards and we wouldn't be 16th and LAST in the AFC in 1st downs. That's even worse if you consider that based on last year's result, we don't have the strongest schedule Baltimore does.

If we were making plays on D, we wouldn't be ranked 22nd in sacks, 29th in INT, we wouldn't be ranked 14th in the AFC in differential takeaway vs giveaway with -13. (12 vs 25)
Compare that with New England who is 1st in the AFC with +24

We are just a mediocre team all around, no ifs, ands or buts.

Steel_Bus_24
12-11-2012, 10:10 AM
Yep some Alpha Dogs to knock some asses back in line would help

gpOG9K02F_g

Stairway to 7
12-11-2012, 11:13 AM
I think a mediocre team is accurate, that's what we are, sorry but kneeling down and blowing the Chargers at home with your QB back, on the back of a massive performance just says 'mediocre' to me.

Wow just everything set up to roll 4-0 into the post-season and the Steelers lay a huge egg, they were asleep from the get go.

I have let Tomin off far too easily in the past, I said after the Cleveland debacle I had had enough. His teams are poorly prepared, lack discipline, and just failt to show up far too often, his in-game management is laughable, that mumbled BS he gave as an excuse for not being able to add up said it all. Simms was laughing at him, that was unforgivable. The guy is an idiot.


NO-ONE KNOWS WHAT THIS GUY BRINGS - NO-ONE.

That's a problem.

Vis
12-11-2012, 11:52 AM
Health....

bornaSteelersfan
12-11-2012, 12:43 PM
ONE thing we lack is DISCIPLINE! Penalties, fumbles, dropped passes, interceptions...it is all discipline. If we can't get the fundamentals right, we won't go far.

FanSince72
12-11-2012, 12:49 PM
What do you think the one thing we lack is?

For me, I'd say PLAYMAKERS. We have Ben, and sometimes AB, but on D... zilch. We have some solid play, like Clark and Timmons, but nothing like when Harrison and Troy were at their peak. I mean, if you think Troy is the same Troy for the past couple years, just youtube his highlights and watch the crazy game-changing plays he made in the past. That's all gone. We need playmakers to change the momentum of games IMO.

Killer instinct.

We don't have it.

We let teams hang around and more often than not it either bites us in the ass and we lose or at best we end up in some late-game struggle to cling to a 3-point lead.

Did you watch the Pats last night?

THAT is how we should be playing -- foot on the gas and keep pounding and scoring until the refs tell us the game is over - PERIOD!
I've had it with "tactical" bullshit.
We have the QB and the receivers to put 50 points on the board and yet we struggle week in and week out and ESPECIALLY against shitty teams.

We should have STEAMROLLED San Diego and instead they steamrolled us!

WTF is up with THAT?! :noidea:

desertsteel
12-11-2012, 01:25 PM
We are lacking a lot of things, starting with leadership, on the field and off the field.

Have you ever seem Tomlin go ballistic at his players on the sideline? Have you ever seem him grab one guy and blast him during the game? He has no reaction.
Look no further why we don't seem to be motivated. He doesn't seem to be either. I can understand that from Lebau who's 75yo but not from Tomlin. We don't need an intellectual of the game, we need a LEADER, kicking @ss when it's deserved, putting fire under the guys' @ss.

That sounds great, but honestly I watch a lot of NFL games and I don't see too many coaches doing what you describe.

GoFor7
12-11-2012, 01:34 PM
Killer instinct.

We don't have it.

We let teams hang around and more often than not it either bites us in the ass and we lose or at best we end up in some late-game struggle to cling to a 3-point lead.

Did you watch the Pats last night?

THAT is how we should be playing -- foot on the gas and keep pounding and scoring until the refs tell us the game is over - PERIOD!
I've had it with "tactical" bullshit.
We have the QB and the receivers to put 50 points on the board and yet we struggle week in and week out and ESPECIALLY against shitty teams.

We should have STEAMROLLED San Diego and instead they steamrolled us!

WTF is up with THAT?! :noidea:

Haven't you been paying attention? Steelers fans like to call teams that score a lot of points "classless," but they flip shit when the Steelers defense has to win a tight game because the offense didn't do enough. :coffee:

steelfury02
12-11-2012, 01:46 PM
Wait, the ONE thing we lack is:

Fresh bodies, waiting to get injured and not be able to contribute for any stretch of time, leading to yet again, a painfully short season.

The current scene at Steelers locker room:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_hVOW2U7K4-M/S8bRfodBMWI/AAAAAAABSCg/3YZXlvC4RPk/er5yewr5yew543e.jpg

austinfrench76
12-11-2012, 02:10 PM
We do lack consistency and leadership but I agree that HEALTH is this year, and has been the past few, our biggest issue. Need bodies to play NFL caliber games. We did beat the Ravens with some 3rd teamers but they are also banged up so it kind of proves the point. Let's hope we amke the payoffs and Ike and Adams come back, Troy stays healthy and we get Cortez back to play the Nickel DB!

steelfury02
12-11-2012, 02:12 PM
We do lack consistency and leadership but I agree that HEALTH is this year, and has been the past few, our biggest issue. Need bodies to play NFL caliber games. We did beat the Ravens with some 3rd teamers but they are also banged up so it kind of proves the point. Let's hope we amke the payoffs and Ike and Adams come back, Troy stays healthy and we get Cortez back to play the Nickel DB!

yea, I know this is the professional level - but, there is a reason some are starters, and some are backups - there is in fact a drop off - now, I do believe it can be overcome - but not when you are consistently this banged up, all over the place.

desertsteel
12-11-2012, 02:27 PM
We just don't get that pick SIX, or that TO deep in THEIR half of the field. And we constantly lose the field posi game because the punter is terrible.

YES!!! All I want for Christmas is a new Punter!

ZoneBlitzer
12-11-2012, 02:36 PM
YES!!! All I want for Christmas is a new Punter!

He's an improvement over the frail and injury prone Sepulveda. For a young player, he's a pretty solid punter.

sloppyjoe
12-11-2012, 02:42 PM
discipline

TRH
12-11-2012, 02:45 PM
the punter isn't why we're losing the field position battle. Not even close.

steelfury02
12-11-2012, 03:19 PM
THIS, is killer instinct:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmnv1nS87f1qkabk0o1_500.gif

JeromeBetties63
12-11-2012, 03:22 PM
the punter isn't why we're losing the field position battle. Not even close.

Oh, it is a significant part of it. He gets out kicked by 15-20 yards every stinking exchange of possession.

GoFor7
12-11-2012, 03:23 PM
Oh, it is a significant part of it. He gets out kicked by 15-20 yards every stinking exchange of possession.

It's a problem, but I'd be more concerned about lack of turnovers forced by the defense, and I'd be REALLY more concerned about how much of a joke special teams is.

TRH
12-11-2012, 03:28 PM
Oh, it is a significant part of it. He gets out kicked by 15-20 yards every stinking exchange of possession.\

No. It's not.
Butler is averaging i believe 43 point something a kick this year and netting out at 38. The league leaders are at 48-ish and netting around 41. Thats a 3-yard difference from the leaders.
If what you said was true - Butler would be punting 28 yard punts all the time. Which he doesn't. Nobody in the NFL is getting "out-kicked" by 15 or 20 yards.

We're losing the field position battle because our offense isn't moving the ball anymore and we're STARTING beginning of games punting deep inside our own territory (at times even deeper - because we're also committing our most costly penalties while deep in our own territory). This has directly led to extremely poor field position. What makes it worse is the fact its happening at the beginning. So our "poor field position" continues and its like being in quicksand. Very hard to get out of - unless you're moving the ball consistently, of course - which we're not doing.

FanSince72
12-11-2012, 03:45 PM
KILLER INSTINCT

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/JPsuff/Goeasy.jpg

plenewken
12-11-2012, 04:02 PM
Oh, it is a significant part of it. He gets out kicked by 15-20 yards every stinking exchange of possession.

We're currently 27th in punting avg with 43.6 yards That's says it all.
Oh and since we let the opponent return the punt 11 yds on avg., that's a net 32.6 yds.
Pretty lousy if you ask me.

Atlanta Dan
12-11-2012, 04:17 PM
Hines Ward thinks what is lacking is leadership on offense

'The year we won a Super Bowl, we had to win the last four games to make the playoffs, and then we went in as one of the hottest teams,” Ward said in an interview. “They have a lot of guys on the defensive side that experienced that. I don’t think many on the offense — other than Heath Miller and Ben — have. You would think Ben would be the natural leader, but he’s been injured. Who else is in the huddle that if something goes bad, who is the calm before the storm? That plays a major factor.

“I look at the defensive side, they have a nice mix of young and veteran guys. You look at the offensive side of the ball, I don’t see the cohesiveness of the group. When I was there, Kordell Stewart, Jerome Bettis, those were the guys in the huddle. Then it was myself, Alan Faneca — we had a nice nucleus of guys in there who guys could lean on, don’t hit the panic button. I don’t see that balance like I see on the defensive side.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/sports/football/defining-games-coming-for-floundering-teams.html?ref=sports

Well now Ben is back - sounds like Hines thinks Ben will need to lead the way

FrancoLambert
12-11-2012, 04:29 PM
That sounds great, but honestly I watch a lot of NFL games and I don't see too many coaches doing what you describe.

Belichick does it, Coughlin does it, Shanahan does it. Parcells did it. They hold their players accountable, openly.
I'm kinda sick of hearing Tomlin say, "we're cool, we're cool, we're cool" after a mishap.

TRH
12-11-2012, 04:30 PM
Hines Ward thinks what is lacking is leadership on offense

'The year we won a Super Bowl, we had to win the last four games to make the playoffs, and then we went in as one of the hottest teams, Ward said in an interview. They have a lot of guys on the defensive side that experienced that. I dont think many on the offense other than Heath Miller and Ben have. You would think Ben would be the natural leader, but hes been injured. Who else is in the huddle that if something goes bad, who is the calm before the storm? That plays a major factor.

I look at the defensive side, they have a nice mix of young and veteran guys. You look at the offensive side of the ball, I dont see the cohesiveness of the group. When I was there, Kordell Stewart, Jerome Bettis, those were the guys in the huddle. Then it was myself, Alan Faneca we had a nice nucleus of guys in there who guys could lean on, dont hit the panic button. I dont see that balance like I see on the defensive side.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/sports/football/defining-games-coming-for-floundering-teams.html?ref=sports

Well now Ben is back - sounds like Hines thinks Ben will need to lead the way

i agree with HInes to a degree - but what i'd really like to see on this team is that big-time "leader of men" leader on the defense. We don't have it - period.

TRH
12-11-2012, 04:31 PM
We're currently 27th in punting avg with 43.6 yards That's says it all.
Oh and since we let the opponent return the punt 11 yds on avg., that's a net 32.6 yds.
Pretty lousy if you ask me.

oh yeah - that too. Add that point to my above points - and there you have it. It equals LOUSY field position.......almost all the time. It's not the punter himself. He's fine.

LastRide
12-11-2012, 04:31 PM
We are lacking in a few areas, but one thing for sure. Being a Steelers fan from the 70's. I am just not used of seeing pretty much zero pass rush. If its one thing the Steelers always had was a bad ass defense, and a mean pass rush. Knocking QB's out left and right. Pass rush is pretty much non-existent right now. Unless we overload the line. Only then we have a slight chance of getting to the QB. Lack of interceptions and takeaways is killing us too.

TRH
12-11-2012, 04:34 PM
We are lacking in a few areas, but one thing for sure. Being a Steelers fan from the 70's. I am just not used of seeing pretty much zero pass rush. If its one thing the Steelers always had was a bad ass defense, and a mean pass rush. Knocking QB's out left and right. Pass rush is pretty much non-existent right now.



yep. Been a long time since i've seen opposing QB's have so much time back there - almost always.
Rivers was getting the ball - calling in his order for lunch - then calling to check in on his wife - then finally getting around to start looking for a receiver. It was ridiculous.

ZoneBlitzer
12-11-2012, 05:36 PM
Ben isn't the leader that this team needs.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-11-2012, 06:43 PM
I'd say we lack a message board where absurd fans can air their grievances about the team in a knee jerk manner..............uh, never mind.

tanda10506
12-11-2012, 07:14 PM
Ben isn't the leader that this team needs.

I think Ben has become much more of a leader and he started showing it last year in Denver. Even though the O line was below average and our WR's couldn't get open, he still RAN around with a high ankle sprain and made some excellent decisions and great passes while doing it. Also, yesterday he continued to play hard and made some great throws (a few that weren't caught) even though we were getting blown out and nobody gave a crap. That said, I do agree with you. Ben is a great example to the rest of the team about what toughness and competition is all about, but he doesn't seem to be the type to rally the team mentally or make a locker room speech. We haven't had that since Porter and Cowher really. The defense played so well in 2008 that they were always fired up and ready to go. Farrior was the last leader on the defense and nobody has picked it up since he left. I expected Harrison and Timmons to pick it up, especially Timmons, but nobody picked it up.

As for the offense, I don't see who the leader would even be. I don't think Ben is going to be that guy, likely due to his past and not wanting to look like an a******, but I don't see who else it could be. Ward was the last emotional leader on offense and we let him go a bit to early IMO. Either way nobody has filled his spot. Time for someone to step up. It be nice if it was Tomlin, Cowher lit a fire under his team and it would be nice to see Tomlin do the same. Somebody needs to do it!

ZoneBlitzer
12-11-2012, 07:19 PM
I think Ben has become much more of a leader and he started showing it last year in Denver. Even though the O line was below average and our WR's couldn't get open, he still RAN around with a high ankle sprain and made some excellent decisions and great passes while doing it. Also, yesterday he continued to play hard and made some great throws (a few that weren't caught) even though we were getting blown out and nobody gave a crap. That said, I do agree with you. Ben is a great example to the rest of the team about what toughness and competition is all about, but he doesn't seem to be the type to rally the team mentally or make a locker room speech. We haven't had that since Porter and Cowher really. The defense played so well in 2008 that they were always fired up and ready to go. Farrior was the last leader on the defense and nobody has picked it up since he left. I expected Harrison and Timmons to pick it up, especially Timmons, but nobody picked it up.

As for the offense, I don't see who the leader would even be. I don't think Ben is going to be that guy, likely due to his past and not wanting to look like an a******, but I don't see who else it could be. Ward was the last emotional leader on offense and we let him go a bit to early IMO. Either way nobody has filled his spot. Time for someone to step up. It be nice if it was Tomlin, Cowher lit a fire under his team and it would be nice to see Tomlin do the same. Somebody needs to do it!

Couldn't have said it better. He's not that vocal guy and I think this team misses the likes of Ward. This team has to play with some fire in the belly to execute well.

JewniorGong
12-11-2012, 07:20 PM
We lack, in this order of importance:
-Hunger/urgency
-Pass rush
-Explosion at RB/run blocking
-Bigger plays from receivers

I don't know if we lack leadership from players because there are more than a few vocal vets on the squad. I'm not sure that the hunger is there. A lot of the vets have rings already, I'm not sure if some of the young guys are even interested in that, and I'm not sure the coach views each game as equally important

ZoneBlitzer
12-11-2012, 07:41 PM
We lack, in this order of importance:
-Hunger/urgency
-Pass rush
-Explosion at RB/run blocking
-Bigger plays from receivers

I don't know if we lack leadership from players because there are more than a few vocal vets on the squad. I'm not sure that the hunger is there. A lot of the vets have rings already, I'm not sure if some of the young guys are even interested in that, and I'm not sure the coach views each game as equally important

Agreed on your points but when those line items aren't there, that's when leadership is needed to inspire and motivate.

jiminpa
12-11-2012, 07:42 PM
...a head coach.

JeromeBetties63
12-11-2012, 09:27 PM
\

No. It's not.
Butler is averaging i believe 43 point something a kick this year and netting out at 38. The league leaders are at 48-ish and netting around 41. Thats a 3-yard difference from the leaders.
If what you said was true - Butler would be punting 28 yard punts all the time. Which he doesn't. Nobody in the NFL is getting "out-kicked" by 15 or 20 yards.

We're losing the field position battle because our offense isn't moving the ball anymore and we're STARTING beginning of games punting deep inside our own territory (at times even deeper - because we're also committing our most costly penalties while deep in our own territory). This has directly led to extremely poor field position. What makes it worse is the fact its happening at the beginning. So our "poor field position" continues and its like being in quicksand. Very hard to get out of - unless you're moving the ball consistently, of course - which we're not doing.

It was one of the main reasons we lost the first Ravens game. Those yards are about when and where too. Some kickers are putting it out of bounds at the 12 for a 28 yard net. The guy does not have a big leg....period. Did you go to school with him or something?

TRH
12-11-2012, 10:09 PM
It was one of the main reasons we lost the first Ravens game. Those yards are about when and where too. Some kickers are putting it out of bounds at the 12 for a 28 yard net. The guy does not have a big leg....period. Did you go to school with him or something?


No - but there's FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR bigger problems on this team than the f-ing punter.
How many 3-and-outs have we had inside our own 20? And not only that - we commit stupid, idiotic penalties while down there too....further squashing us to our own end zone. Then our punter has to f-ing kick it, if not out of the end zone, than near the goal line - all the while having to play it safe so there's no 'fumbled' long snap or blocked kick (which would be an almost surely automatic TD).
When he gets the kick off, it seems as if the other guys are taking the punts almost near their own 40 - then as someone stated above - getting 10+ yard returns (or once again - our idiotic Special Teams commits some god forsaken penalty).
I've seen this way too many times this year. We don't need to worry about the punter "first" (which thats not even one of the top 3 or 4 reasons we keep getting buried)
It's not the #!*$%! punter thats the issue.

ETL
12-11-2012, 10:52 PM
One thing we lack?


CHEERLEADERS!


http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/659/727/steelers_girl_display_image.jpg?1295816928

Fire Arians
12-11-2012, 10:59 PM
One thing we lack?


CHEERLEADERS!


http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/659/727/steelers_girl_display_image.jpg?1295816928

id buy that for a dollar

hell maybe even a couple hundred for 30 minutes or so

teegre
12-11-2012, 11:50 PM
id buy that for a dollar

hell maybe even a couple hundred for 30 minutes or so

30 minutes... would that be six times? :wink02:

TheVet
12-12-2012, 12:08 AM
One thing we lack: Accountability. And it should start with the coaching staff.

Sure, Tomlin talks about playing above the line, but how about coaching above the line? Lets set a high bar throughout the organization. It's not enough to acknowledge, acknowledge, acknowledge. At some point you need to perform - then demand the same from your players.

I see lots of lip service paid to accountability, but not much in the way of true accountability. Not when the same mistakes keep repeating from top to bottom.

"We acknowledge this, we embrace it, such is life in the NFL." Great attitude for helpless driftwood in the river.

Lady Steel
12-12-2012, 12:54 AM
Yep some Alpha Dogs to knock some asses back in line would help

gpOG9K02F_g


"They shot me in Denver!" :laughing: I had forgotten all about Joey saying that. Thanks for the reminder. Epic.

jiminpa
12-12-2012, 04:01 AM
No - but there's FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR bigger problems on this team than the f-ing punter.
How many 3-and-outs have we had inside our own 20? And not only that - we commit stupid, idiotic penalties while down there too....further squashing us to our own end zone. Then our punter has to f-ing kick it, if not out of the end zone, than near the goal line - all the while having to play it safe so there's no 'fumbled' long snap or blocked kick (which would be an almost surely automatic TD).
When he gets the kick off, it seems as if the other guys are taking the punts almost near their own 40 - then as someone stated above - getting 10+ yard returns (or once again - our idiotic Special Teams commits some god forsaken penalty).
I've seen this way too many times this year. We don't need to worry about the punter "first" (which thats not even one of the top 3 or 4 reasons we keep getting buried)
It's not the #!*$%! punter thats the issue....and not just this season. Our special have been making average returners look great and holding on every return for six seasons straight. That's a trend.

steelerschik
12-12-2012, 06:25 AM
No - but there's FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR bigger problems on this team than the f-ing punter.
How many 3-and-outs have we had inside our own 20? And not only that - we commit stupid, idiotic penalties while down there too....further squashing us to our own end zone. Then our punter has to f-ing kick it, if not out of the end zone, than near the goal line - all the while having to play it safe so there's no 'fumbled' long snap or blocked kick (which would be an almost surely automatic TD).
When he gets the kick off, it seems as if the other guys are taking the punts almost near their own 40 - then as someone stated above - getting 10+ yard returns (or once again - our idiotic Special Teams commits some god forsaken penalty).
I've seen this way too many times this year. We don't need to worry about the punter "first" (which thats not even one of the top 3 or 4 reasons we keep getting buried)
It's not the #!*$%! punter thats the issue.

LOL, so true. I didn't think he was all that bad this season for the most part, thank God. This team has quite a few issues and I know they're not all injury related either. The downward trend is troublesome, but I'm holding on to hope that a lot of them can be fixed for next season. I'm just gonna call this a bad year.

Stairway to 7
12-12-2012, 08:31 AM
I'd say we lack a message board where absurd fans can air their grievances about the team in a knee jerk manner..............uh, never mind.

Nothing knee jerk, we're more than 3/4 through the reg season and the team can't beat a 4-8 outfit with lame-duck coach @ home, even though that team has never beaten the Steelers in Pittsburgh since time began.

Knee jerk my ass, we are maybe only 1 loss away from elimination.

fer522
12-12-2012, 10:45 AM
a BETTER coach
let me ask you guys something if Bill B. was our coach ( I know he's not) do you think we'd be losing to all these mediocre teams almost everytime we play them? I don't think so so yea I'd say a better coach

steelfury02
12-12-2012, 11:28 AM
5 out of his 15 seasons - yes, we could have lost to the bottom feeders.

Tomlin 07 - Playoffs
Tomlin 08 - Champs
Tomlin 09 - No Playoffs
Tomlin 10 - AFC Champs
Tomlin 11 - Playoffs
If we make playoffs again, that's 5 out of first six years, and the 4th season in a row of nothing but injuries to deal with

The_Joker
12-12-2012, 11:45 AM
Where the fuck are Porters of this team? Keisel, Hampton and Harrison sure aren't doing their jobs if laziness is our problem.

steelfury02
12-12-2012, 12:07 PM
Where the fuck are Porters of this team? Keisel, Hampton and Harrison sure aren't doing their jobs if laziness is our problem.

yea, and the other thing is - remember how much pride the Steelers used to take in bein the most conditioned? - I don't see anyone NEARLY as chiseled as Porter. I mean, look at those thuggish abs . . .:sofunny: