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View Full Version : Pattern: Steelers lose after BB returns from an injury


teegre
12-12-2012, 02:19 PM
I do not know the exact figures and/or the win-loss record (please, someone who is good at Googling & such, help me out), but BB is horrible in his first game back after an injury.

I remember specifically, last season, the 49ers game. LOSS.

Right?

Again, in his first game back, after returning from an inury, BB loses a lot. That is something that has not been brought up in the discussions (which have mostly focused on the defense, WRs, special teams, & others). As in: BB is not "BB" for a game or so, after an injury.

The silver lining in this loss to SD was the fact that BB got a full two quarters of "practice" against real competition... which will iron out the kinks that normally arise after he returns from an injury. In other words, BB came out throwing horribly... and did not play well in the first half... but... in the second half... he had shaken off the dust, and he looked great. (I know that he threw an INT, but he looked less "scared" back there).

With all of that "practice", he should already be back to his MVP form of a month ago.

FanSince72
12-12-2012, 06:59 PM
I do not know the exact figures and/or the win-loss record (please, someone who is good at Googling & such, help me out), but BB is horrible in his first game back after an injury.

I remember specifically, last season, the 49ers game. LOSS.

Right?

Again, in his first game back, after returning from an inury, BB loses a lot. That is something that has not been brought up in the discussions (which have mostly focused on the defense, WRs, special teams, & others). As in: BB is not "BB" for a game or so, after an injury.

The silver lining in this loss to SD was the fact that BB got a full two quarters of "practice" against real competition... which will iron out the kinks that normally arise after he returns from an injury. In other words, BB came out throwing horribly... and did not play well in the first half... but... in the second half... he had shaken off the dust, and he looked great. (I know that he threw an INT, but he looked less "scared" back there).

With all of that "practice", he should already be back to his MVP form of a month ago.

There are two reasons for this:

They bring him back too fast
They are not considering the team as a whole.


In the case of the former, they pay him ungodly sums of money to play this game and the Front Office isn't going to allow him to sit if he can do anything that even remotely resembles playing football. They're more interested in getting their "product" out on the field than in whether or not he's truly healthy enough to play.

In the case of the latter, they are not considering the fact that a certain chemistry was developing with Charlie and with Ben suddenly back, the team knows that the game will be different and that tends to mess up whatever was working.

In terms of the tactical aspect of playing Ben, what it did was take a bottom-feeder like San Diego with a QB who is the forgotten member of the "Class of '04" and instead of game-planning for Charlie, they instead saw it as open season on Ben. Their defense wanted to re-injure him and Rivers wanted to show him that he's just as good. Take that and mix it in with a rusty Ben who played very cautiously at first and was testing the waters in terms of just how ready he was to play and you get what we saw on Sunday.

I think Tomlin should have started Batch and let Ben sit one more week. If he HAD to play Ben, he should have let him go for a quarter or so and if he saw that he wasn't 100% (he wasn't) or if the team in general seemed lost (it did), then pull him and send Charlie out there.

I would have done that right after Ben 'Doinked' Miller in the head with that pass which ultimately ended up as a gimme TD for the bottom-feeders. How Tomlin could have seen that and thought that keeping Ben in the game is beyond me.

But then, after the San Fran debacle last year, nothing Tomlin does surprises me.

teegre
12-12-2012, 11:13 PM
There are two reasons for this:

They bring him back too fast
They are not considering the team as a whole.


In the case of the former, they pay him ungodly sums of money to play this game and the Front Office isn't going to allow him to sit if he can do anything that even remotely resembles playing football. They're more interested in getting their "product" out on the field than in whether or not he's truly healthy enough to play.

In the case of the latter, they are not considering the fact that a certain chemistry was developing with Charlie and with Ben suddenly back, the team knows that the game will be different and that tends to mess up whatever was working.

In terms of the tactical aspect of playing Ben, what it did was take a bottom-feeder like San Diego with a QB who is the forgotten member of the "Class of '04" and instead of game-planning for Charlie, they instead saw it as open season on Ben. Their defense wanted to re-injure him and Rivers wanted to show him that he's just as good. Take that and mix it in with a rusty Ben who played very cautiously at first and was testing the waters in terms of just how ready he was to play and you get what we saw on Sunday.

I think Tomlin should have started Batch and let Ben sit one more week. If he HAD to play Ben, he should have let him go for a quarter or so and if he saw that he wasn't 100% (he wasn't) or if the team in general seemed lost (it did), then pull him and send Charlie out there.

I would have done that right after Ben 'Doinked' Miller in the head with that pass which ultimately ended up as a gimme TD for the bottom-feeders. How Tomlin could have seen that and thought that keeping Ben in the game is beyond me.

But then, after the San Fran debacle last year, nothing Tomlin does surprises me.

3. After time away from the game, BB simply has to work his way back into the fold.

In other words, maybe, no matter when he comes back, BB has to have a bad few series.

Regardless, those few bad series are now out of the way. He got those reps needed, to transform himself from the BB that we saw on Sunday (bad throws, a little timid) into the MVP candidate from earlier in the year (best 3rd down conversion percentage in the league).

Furthermore, think about it this way: keeping BB in at the end of that game (during garbage time) was just what BB needed (to get back into game form).

maddog78
12-13-2012, 07:43 AM
I think the team breathes a collective sigh of relief when Ben returns, and you see the crap sandwich we got last Sunday. Nobody was up for the game, SD took it to us.

FanSince72
12-13-2012, 07:55 AM
3. After time away from the game, BB simply has to work his way back into the fold.

In other words, maybe, no matter when he comes back, BB has to have a bad few series.

True, but he doesn't (shouldn't) need an entire game to do that. He can get his game legs back a little at a time just as a rookie is given short opportunities throughout a series of games to do the same.



Furthermore, think about it this way: keeping BB in at the end of that game (during garbage time) was just what BB needed (to get back into game form).

And of course "garbage time" is the operative phrase. The defense has pretty much wrapped it up for the day and yes, by then Ben seemed to get his chops back, but at what cost? Can no one imagine a garbage-time scenario in reverse; one in which WE had the game in hand and Ben comes in to mop up and work out?

I understand that the only way to get back to game-shape is to play, but we're not in a luxurious position of being able to throw games away just so Ben can get his feet wet. If the goal is to win the game, then I believe Charlie Batch gave us the best opportunity to do that.

maddog78
12-13-2012, 08:02 AM
True, but he doesn't (shouldn't) need an entire game to do that. He can get his game legs back a little at a time just as a rookie is given short opportunities throughout a series of games to do the same.





And of course "garbage time" is the operative phrase. The defense has pretty much wrapped it up for the day and yes, by then Ben seemed to get his chops back, but at what cost? Can no one imagine a garbage-time scenario in reverse; one in which WE had the game in hand and Ben comes in to mop up and work out?

I understand that the only way to get back to game-shape is to play, but we're not in a luxurious position of being able to throw games away just so Ben can get his feet wet. If the goal is to win the game, then I believe Charlie Batch gave us the best opportunity to do that.

Easy on Batch. He was also trailing by ten in the first half the week before, he just had the defense show up for him in the 2nd half.

FanSince72
12-13-2012, 08:08 AM
Easy on Batch. He was also trailing by ten in the first half the week before, he just had the defense show up for him in the 2nd half.

I don't believe that Batch is the equivalent of Ben -- just the better bet at the time since he'd already gotten past the "first-time-back" rust and all that.

teegre
12-13-2012, 08:11 AM
True, but he doesn't (shouldn't) need an entire game to do that. He can get his game legs back a little at a time just as a rookie is given short opportunities throughout a series of games to do the same.





And of course "garbage time" is the operative phrase. The defense has pretty much wrapped it up for the day and yes, by then Ben seemed to get his chops back, but at what cost? Can no one imagine a garbage-time scenario in reverse; one in which WE had the game in hand and Ben comes in to mop up and work out?

I understand that the only way to get back to game-shape is to play, but we're not in a luxurious position of being able to throw games away just so Ben can get his feet wet. If the goal is to win the game, then I believe Charlie Batch gave us the best opportunity to do that.

1. He doesn't need a whole game, but, alas, after the first few series, he's already dug the team into a hole (two passes thrown into the ground, leading to poor field position, and BB having to throw out of his own end-zone, which only exacerbates his timid ness.)

2. I almost mentioned the "garbage time in reverse", but didn't type it. I was thinking that IF the Steelers had already had a good lead, they could have had BB play at the end.

Then again, if BB needs a few series, AND if he threw a few INTs (and blew the lead(, people would reeeally be calling for Tomlin's head.

SO...

How does the team get him those necessary series?... hmmm...

teegre
12-13-2012, 08:13 AM
I think the team breathes a collective sigh of relief when Ben returns, and you see the crap sandwich we got last Sunday. Nobody was up for the game, SD took it to us.

^^This^^

I remember reading that a lot if the players in the Steelers just ASSUME that BB will "pull out a victory at the end of the game."

It's a double-edged sword, because they play less timid/less afraid to make mistakes, because they know that BB will most likely bail them out.

But... they also relax "too much" (just as you said).

maddog78
12-13-2012, 08:17 AM
I don't believe that Batch is the equivalent of Ben -- just the better bet at the time since he'd already gotten past the "first-time-back" rust and all that.

So you'd rather Ben be rusty against Demarcus Ware on the road? We were supposed to be able to beat SD with anybody, but unfortunately, nobody showed up.

steelfury02
12-13-2012, 08:21 AM
I'm glad to hear that he chewed them out at halftime. He should be doing that every single time one of them drops a pass. Please AB, get back to where you were heading - we need ya.

Wallace has one last chance to start helping this team out. He seems to be humbled (I'm thinking seeing Mendy's possible end and Plaxico back might have had something to do with it) but, will he rise to the occasion? I hope so for his sake - whether that means he stays on the cheap, or performs for a future contract.

FanSince72
12-13-2012, 08:24 AM
So you'd rather Ben be rusty against Demarcus Ware on the road? We were supposed to be able to beat SD with anybody, but unfortunately, nobody showed up.

No, I'm suggesting that Charlie could have handled SD and Ben could have played a little, just to get the feel for things. Follow that with a solid week of practice and Ben would likely be in pretty good shape for Dallas.

That way, I believe we could have had everything; a win against SD along with some solid reps for Ben plus the added bonus of the team itself getting accustomed to the idea of Ben returning.

torpedoshell31
12-14-2012, 07:17 AM
You see this a lot in sports when the star player is out the other members of the team step up their effort for at least one game. Then when the star comes back they all breathe a sigh of relief and end up playing flat the next game.
Ben actually didn't play a bad game, 3 TD's to only 1 interception, I'll take that every week. As far as the play that hit the TE in the back, that wasn't Heath that was Paulson who was blown back into the path of the ball by the defender. Even at that we could just gotten a away with only a safety against us, but Brown increduously tried to pick up the ball and run with it, instead of just kicking or batting it out of bounds.

teegre
12-14-2012, 07:28 AM
You see this a lot in sports when the star player is out the other members of the team step up their effort for at least one game. Then when the star comes back they all breathe a sigh of relief and end up playing flat the next game.

^^That^^

True, BB's second half looked good. The three TD drives looked good. The INT was unacceptable (he watched Heath the ENTIRE way), but considering his three-game break, you knew that there'd be at least one INT.

Again, the second half was good.

BUT, the first half, specifically those two horrible throws on the first series, was awful.

Again, I agree: the rest of the team seemed to ease up, but still, how does this team avoid that type if first half performance from BB when he returns from injury?

torpedoshell31
12-14-2012, 07:42 AM
^^That^^

True, BB's second half looked good. The three TD drives looked good. The INT was unacceptable (he watched Heath the ENTIRE way), but considering his three-game break, you knew that there'd be at least one INT.

Again, the second half was good.

BUT, the first half, specifically those two horrible throws on the first series, was awful.

Again, I agree: the rest of the team seemed to ease up, but still, how does this team avoid that type if first half performance from BB when he returns from injury?

You're right Ben was really rusty the first half. Hopefully the way he finished the game will be how he starts the Cowboy game.

steelfury02
12-14-2012, 08:39 AM
You're right Ben was really rusty the first half. Hopefully the way he finished the game will be how he starts the Cowboy game.

yea, the Chargers relinquished the field a little though - let's be honest here. Sure, I want to see Ben and the offense be able to do that out of the gate - but in garbage time? Doesn't mean much. I'm glad he got the feeling back - just need to protect him and the ball, and we have a shot.

CanuckCurtain
12-14-2012, 06:31 PM
What's the pattern one game after injury?

teegre
12-14-2012, 08:50 PM
What's the pattern one game after injury?

Yes... only the first game after he returns. Then, it's back to normal.

So, Yes, only one game.