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View Full Version : Running back.....Confusion.


Cyphon
12-13-2012, 03:16 AM
So for a long time now I have been a big fan of the play of Isaac Redman. I think he is easily and without question the best running back we have. Even if you disagree or coaches and experts may disagree, he is still very underrated based on what he has done.

I continue to hear arguments about needing to find our running game and people need to step up and concistency this and that. Yet I never hear much about Redman being the fix. I just want to present some stats here.

Last year when Menenhall went down Redman came in and had 2 big games in his place. One was 90+ if I remember correctly and there was the playoff game vs the Broncos where he ran for 121 on 17 carries with a TD and a long of 32 yards.

So in what amounted to 2 starts he nearly had back to back 100 yard games.

Flash forward to this year and we have fun with the "running back by committee" idea which failed miserably. When our running backs were finally given the chance to start completely if you will, the results happened. Dwyer had back to back 100 yard games and after him Redman started and ran for 147 yards with a TD.

So to review: in 3 games where Redman was more or less the only starter he has had 100 yard games (give or take a few yards in one of them).

A few more things to sweeten the deal.

1. His nickname for years has been Redzone Redman. He has that name for a reason and only now are we deciding to really lean on him for short yardage plays.

2. Along the same path as #1 his short yardage effeciency has been pretty outstanding. This guy never goes down on the first tackle and fights more than most backs in the league.

3. His is our best blocking back.

I could go on all day about this but lets sum some things up.

I do believe Dwyer is a good and capable back, he just isn't as good as Redman.

Speed - Dwyer > Redman. I am basing this on 40 times that I saw but keep in mind Dwyer has had weight issues and is likely slower than his recorded 40 time. I think based on the eye test they are about even and neither is very fast for an RB.

Agility - Redman > Dwyer. Again, not a big gap but still a clear winner. Dwyer has good feet for someone who is heavy, but Redman is just good period. Good side to side movement and a great spin move (see his run vs the Chargers this week).

Blocking - Redman > Dwyer. This is one of the things Tomlin specifically praised Redman on if you haven't come to this conclusion on your own with a simple eye test.

Tackle Breaking - Redman = Dwyer. Both are hard to bring down. Not too much to seperate the 2.

Receiving - Redman = Dwyer. Again, both are pretty good in this area. Can't really pick a winner.


I dunno if any of you will read all of that but answer me some questions.

Am I the only one who has noticed this? Anyone agree with this? Why are the analysts and coaches missing this? Is there something in practice or otherwise I have missed?

(and yes I know Redman has fumbled a few times but so have all of our backs).

Terminator
12-13-2012, 06:04 AM
We have 3 turds at running back. Pick which one has the most tolerable smell, and there ya go.

jiminpa
12-13-2012, 06:18 AM
Sorry, but our best RB by far has been targeted for humiliation and elimination by our personality driven pseudo head coach. But it's all good because Tomlin has a press conference cliché for that situation too. Maybe Redman's not healthy either this year, but it hasn't mattered that he hasn't gone down on the first hit, since he's so slow this year that the he gets hit three times by the time he gets through the line. Maybe that's on the line, or maybe it's on the fact that the only RB we have who can get to the corner before the whole entire opposing defense is in Tomlin's doghouse. I sincerely hope that the Rooney's have their own doghouse, and now that BA's gone there's room for Tomlin in it.

Cyphon
12-13-2012, 10:30 AM
We have 3 turds at running back. Pick which one has the most tolerable smell, and there ya go.

I disagree.

While Mendenhall has went from bad to worse there has been good looks from Redman and Dwyer. The problem has been with our line most of the time or the coaches way of using the backs. As I pointed out, when just 1 back got the big majority of the carries and our line was in sync we ran for over 100 3 games in a row with Dwyer and Redman.

Maybe Redman's not healthy either this year, but it hasn't mattered that he hasn't gone down on the first hit, since he's so slow this year that the he gets hit three times by the time he gets through the line. Maybe that's on the line, or maybe it's on the fact that the only RB we have who can get to the corner before the whole entire opposing defense is in Tomlin's doghouse. I sincerely hope that the Rooney's have their own doghouse, and now that BA's gone there's room for Tomlin in it.

Good point about Redmans health. He has been a bit banged up. Still though, I think you are off about the speed thing. Dwyer and Redman are both fairly slow but we have seen they are both capable of breaking of 20+ gains when the line even gives them just some hole. Because they are both really good on the 2nd level and can break tackles to get the extra yards even when caught.

A lot of the time it has been the line but I think early on it was the too many RB's getting their hands on the ball without letting one get going. That is on the coaches. Same goes for Tomlin taking each of them out for any little mistake they make. A bit immature on his part if you ask me.

SteelersCanada
12-13-2012, 10:39 AM
While Mendenhall has went from bad to worse there has been good looks from Redman and Dwyer. The problem has been with our line most of the time or the coaches way of using the backs. As I pointed out, when just 1 back got the big majority of the carries and our line was in sync we ran for over 100 3 games in a row with Dwyer and Redman.

Mendenhall went from bad to worse? He's been progressing ever since his rookie year and if he hadn't been injured last year, would have put up career statistics. He puts the ball on the ground, granted, but he's definitely the best running back on our roster.

As for Dwyer and Redman - they've had 100 yard games this year. Unfortunately, they hadn't done anything before or after these games even worth mentioning. They're mediocre, average on a good day, running backs. They're not franchise backs and have not flashed anything beyond pure mediocrity. Blame the offensive line if you will, but guys like Forte, McCoy and Peterson all have offensive lines that are just as bad if not worse than our current line. These guys can all make something-outta-nothing and are the definition franchise running backs. They're also not out of shape and, for lack of a better word, fat. Both Dwyer and Redman one-dimensional running backs that can only run it up the middle and don't have the speed or quickness to bounce it to the outside and make a big play.

We need to draft or acquire a running back this offseason. It's one of the biggest glaring holes on our roster at this point.

Fire Arians
12-13-2012, 10:56 AM
dwyer is the starter cause red can't stay healthy

Cyphon
12-13-2012, 11:18 AM
Mendenhall went from bad to worse? He's been progressing ever since his rookie year and if he hadn't been injured last year, would have put up career statistics. He puts the ball on the ground, granted, but he's definitely the best running back on our roster.

Yes, from bad to worse. He choked (fumbled) in big games and continued to have the same problems this year when he came back off of injury. And if those were going to be career statistics that is pretty sad. In 15 games he had 2 (yes, only 2) games of 100 + yards. For a first round "franchise" back that is awful. Compare that to Redman last year who had 1 or 2 counted starts with both being 90 or 100+ games.

The only thing he has on either Dwyer or Redman is speed. He is scared to get hit and for all of that speed he has little in the way of agility or making people miss. He also isn't a great blocker.

As for Dwyer and Redman - they've had 100 yard games this year. Unfortunately, they hadn't done anything before or after these games even worth mentioning.

You are right about Dwyer but wrong about Redman. See the OP for why you are wrong about Redman. Every game he has had a significant amount of carries he has gone for 100 or close enough to count it. Including a playoff game.

They're mediocre, average on a good day, running backs. They're not franchise backs and have not flashed anything beyond pure mediocrity.

Dwyer has more he needs to show in my opinion but I think you are not giving enough credit to Redman. When given his chance he has had all 100 yard games. Some of the best short yardage effeciency in football and is a great blocker and can catch out of the backfield. What more do you need to be considered at least good?

Blame the offensive line if you will, but guys like Forte, McCoy and Peterson all have offensive lines that are just as bad if not worse than our current line. These guys can all make something-outta-nothing and are the definition franchise running backs.

I will have to get back to you on the o line thing as I don't have the numbers on that. But beyond that I want to list a couple of things wrong with your argument:

1. You listed 3 of the best RB's in the NFL. I am not arguing Redman is a top 5 RB. He is still a good/great (potentially) RB given what he has done with limited oppurtunity.

2. Of the 3 you listed, you only really have a legit argument with Peterson. McCoy and Forte haven't done anything this season:

McCoy has a 4.2 yard average and a long of 34 with 2 TD's (7 plays of 20+)
Forte has a 4.3 yard average and a long of 46 with 3 TD's (4 plays of 20+)
Redman has a 3.6 yard average with a long of 28 and 2 TD's (2 plays of 20+)

Keep in mind Redman is under 100 attempts while the other 2 are pushing 200 each. Do you see a major disparity between these numbers?

They're also not out of shape and, for lack of a better word, fat. Both Dwyer and Redman one-dimensional running backs that can only run it up the middle and don't have the speed or quickness to bounce it to the outside and make a big play.

This is a fair argument but keep in mind it is no different than what we had with Jerome Bettis and he worked out just fine for us. Again, I think you need to look to our line and the way the coaches have rotated the backs instead of making 1 a legit starter.

We need to draft or acquire a running back this offseason. It's one of the biggest glaring holes on our roster at this point.

We have more important needs than RB. Ben will need a replacement soon and there is nothing wrong with getting someone now for him to help mold. Troy and Clark are both getting up there in age and could use some replacements. Mundy sucks and Allen is starting to look better but we need to see more from him.

Our RB's are just fine so long as our line blocks and the coaches get their heads out of their asses. I don't blame our line too much because they are fighting through constant injury and changes.

Rotorhead
12-13-2012, 11:21 AM
I agree with the original poster, but i also prefer Redman to Dwyer as well. Arguing for Mendy at this point is moot, hes as good as gone, so mo need to even mention him anymore. I doubt he suits up again.

Cyphon
12-13-2012, 11:36 AM
@Steelers Canada - I just got the grades from a source of mine for the offensive lines of the teams we were discussing. These are run blocking grades only. No pass blocking.

I've got grades for run blocking but not actual numbers. The grades though are based off tape and involve the one on one battles with the opposing lineman. It accounts for double teams in it's grade.

Vikings-3rd
Eagles-4th
Steelers-30th
Bears-17

I also checked football outsiders for some numbers the way they do it.

Vikings - 5th
Bears - 20th
Eagles - 26th
Steelers - 27th

So as you can see, the line numbers support my argument as well.

6RingsAndCounting
12-13-2012, 12:20 PM
We have 2 mediocre backs, Redman is a backup running back, a solid one, but he shouldn't be a starter. Dwyer is just Dwyer, sometimes he runs hard as hell, and other times he makes Rainey look like a power back. Mendenhall is obviously the best back on the roster. If they would have let him play through struggles instead of continuing to pull him and have him look over his shoulder, I think he'd be alright this year.

Cyphon
12-13-2012, 12:35 PM
We have 2 mediocre backs, Redman is a backup running back, a solid one, but he shouldn't be a starter.

Can you explain why you think this given the numbers? I am just curious as to where this perception comes from around the league and such. The guy has proven himself a very capable starter including in the playoffs where it truly counts.

You mention Mendenhall and yet last year Mendenhall (in 15 starts) had 2 100 yard games and Redman matched that total with only 2 chances.

SteelersCanada
12-13-2012, 12:45 PM
Yes, from bad to worse. He choked (fumbled) in big games and continued to have the same problems this year when he came back off of injury. And if those were going to be career statistics that is pretty sad. In 15 games he had 2 (yes, only 2) games of 100 + yards. For a first round "franchise" back that is awful. Compare that to Redman last year who had 1 or 2 counted starts with both being 90 or 100+ games.

From reading your entire post, I can see you love quoting statistics. That's fine, statistics are fine to help an argument. Unfortunately, they can also work against your argument as they do here. Redman has 98 carries for 350 yards this year. While these numbers taken at face value are decent, let's dig a little deeper here.

Redman had 26 carries for 147 yards against the Giants.Those are respectable numbers, no doubt. However, let's take into account the rest of the season, both before and after the Giants game.

If you take away the anomaly that is the Giants game this season for Redman, he has 72 carries for 203 yards. That equates to 2.7 YPC - that doesn't scream underrated back and even using the term 'good' here is a stretch. These are undrafted free agent running back numbers and, well, Ike went undrafted.

The only thing he has on either Dwyer or Redman is speed. He is scared to get hit and for all of that speed he has little in the way of agility or making people miss. He also isn't a great blocker.

In this new NFL, having the speed and agility to bounce it outside as Mendenhall does is absolutely required. While he's not a great blocker, he's an exceptional 'chip-and-out-route' running back which gives Ben a checkdown option in the flat.


You are right about Dwyer but wrong about Redman. See the OP for why you are wrong about Redman. Every game he has had a significant amount of carries he has gone for 100 or close enough to count it. Including a playoff game.

He hadn't been given significant carries in those other games because he wasn't doing anything with the carries he had, so a change had to be made. For a running back to be successful, he can't have one 20+ yard gainer and a couple 10 yard gains here and there, he has to be consistently picking up 4 - 5 yards. Having a couple of big gains here and there isn't good enough, but it sure does inflate statistics. Objectively look at Redman run and tell me he's a "good" running back - you can't.


Dwyer has more he needs to show in my opinion but I think you are not giving enough credit to Redman. When given his chance he has had all 100 yard games. Some of the best short yardage effeciency in football and is a great blocker and can catch out of the backfield. What more do you need to be considered at least good?

This again ties to my original point. Go look at those games again. He was averaging around 3.24 ypc for most of the game, but a 20 yard gain coupled with a 10 yard gain back-to-back inflate these statistics. The problem is he isn't efficient or consistent at all. He's a one-dimensional runner that can't do anything but run forward and fall down. When they decide to load the box, it's game over for Redman.

1. You listed 3 of the best RB's in the NFL. I am not arguing Redman is a top 5 RB. He is still a good/great (potentially) RB given what he has done with limited oppurtunity.

2. Of the 3 you listed, you only really have a legit argument with Peterson. McCoy and Forte haven't done anything this season:

McCoy has a 4.2 yard average and a long of 34 with 2 TD's (7 plays of 20+)
Forte has a 4.3 yard average and a long of 46 with 3 TD's (4 plays of 20+)
Redman has a 3.6 yard average with a long of 28 and 2 TD's (2 plays of 20+)

Keep in mind Redman is under 100 attempts while the other 2 are pushing 200 each. Do you see a major disparity between these numbers?

LeSean McCoy hasn't done anything this year? 750 yards on 177 carries are very good numbers. Forte has put up very similar numbers in terms of production. 834 yards on 192 carries are very, very good. Also, you killed your own argument by quoting the "big play" stats. Forte only has two more runs of 20+, but has a significantly higher YPC average and more yardage. This means that Forte has been consistent in picking up 4 - 5 yards every time he gets the ball, not a couple big plays here and there. While it might be unfair to compare Redman to these guys, I'm asking for greatness at the position - something we should expect. Right now, we're settling for mediocrity which is unacceptable.


This is a fair argument but keep in mind it is no different than what we had with Jerome Bettis and he worked out just fine for us. Again, I think you need to look to our line and the way the coaches have rotated the backs instead of making 1 a legit starter.

No. No. No. We don't want or need another Jerome Bettis. This isn't the 90's - playing "smash mouth football" doesn't work anymore. Instead of looking for the next overweight and out-of-shape glorified fullback to be our running back, let's look for the next Adrian Peterson or Arian Foster. This isn't on the coaches, it's the fact that our running backs can only do one thing - run in a straight line with their heads down. They're Mike Wallace, but at running back.


We have more important needs than RB. Ben will need a replacement soon and there is nothing wrong with getting someone now for him to help mold. Troy and Clark are both getting up there in age and could use some replacements. Mundy sucks and Allen is starting to look better but we need to see more from him.

Ben is fine. We'll get another 4 or 5 years out of Roethlisberger and finding a replacement in this draft class is a mistake. I'm not asking we use a first or second round pick on a running back, but I am asking we use a 5th to grab someone like Gillislee or Davis - guys that are small but quick and speedy.

Our RB's are just fine so long as our line blocks and the coaches get their heads out of their asses. I don't blame our line too much because they are fighting through constant injury and changes.

They're really, really not fine. The OLine has been playing poorly, absolutely. However, that being said, good or "potentially great" running backs don't need elite lines to be efficient, which brings me to my next point.

You're sitting there and telling me that the Bears and Eagles lines have been effective so far at run blocking. Is this a joke? This is where "stats" lie. Go and watch any Eagles or Bears game and tell me those stats are true. I'm not kidding here - go and look at any single one of their games so far and tell me those stats have any shred of truth to them. They're that high because the running backs behind them are making them look very, very good. These are the same lines that got Vick and Cutler fairly serious concussions, and in Vick's case, very serious concussions.

McCoy and Forte are making those lines seem very, very good in run blocking. In reality, if they had someone like Dwyer or Redman, they'd be hovering around 25 - 30 like we are. The simple fact of the matter is, they're good enough to make bad lines seem very good because they are truly great running backs. Dwyer and Redman, however, aren't good enough to put these kinds of stats up and they never will. They simply aren't good enough and don't have the ceiling that those other guys do, and it's time to stop settling for mediocrity and draft a new running back.

6RingsAndCounting
12-13-2012, 12:48 PM
Can you explain why you think this given the numbers? I am just curious as to where this perception comes from around the league and such. The guy has proven himself a very capable starter including in the playoffs where it truly counts.

You mention Mendenhall and yet last year Mendenhall (in 15 starts) had 2 100 yard games and Redman matched that total with only 2 chances.

Actually, Redman only had one 100 yard game last season, and it was the playoff game. His other game that he started was against the Titans and he had 49 yards (Dwyer was the one with 100). This year he had the great game against the Giants. Other than that though, I don't think he can handle a full season workload. He's great when he's called upon, but he should be called upon in a back up role. When they handed him the keys early in the year, it wasn't pretty. 20 yards against Denver, 25 against the Jets, and 27 against Oakland. Dwyer outperformed him in all of those games.

gloydfan
12-13-2012, 01:13 PM
Even mentioning AP with Dwyer or Redman is just wrong. I love the steelers, but they do not have a good rb right now, sorry.

steelfury02
12-13-2012, 01:39 PM
the RB sitch isn't getting fixed this season. plain and simple.

Cyphon
12-13-2012, 01:40 PM
If you take away the anomaly that is the Giants game this season for Redman, he has 72 carries for 203 yards. That equates to 2.7 YPC - that doesn't scream underrated back and even using the term 'good' here is a stretch.

Yes, but that is ignoring the fact we have one of the worst run blocking lines in the league and a dumb rotation at back that lets nobody get a rythm. Those are both pretty significant.

In this new NFL, having the speed and agility to bounce it outside as Mendenhall does is absolutely required.

I guess Bettis ran a 4.2 40 huh?

While he's not a great blocker, he's an exceptional 'chip-and-out-route' running back which gives Ben a checkdown option in the flat.

On the other hand you have Redman who is a great blocker and gives Ben the same option in the flats.

He hadn't been given significant carries in those other games because he wasn't doing anything with the carries he had, so a change had to be made.

Again, you are ignoring significant factors. None of our running backs did anything in those games because our line was playing awful and nobody got the consistent carries.

He was averaging around 3.24 ypc for most of the game, but a 20 yard gain coupled with a 10 yard gain back-to-back inflate these statistics. The problem is he isn't efficient or consistent at all.

A run is a run is a run. And he has been consistent when he has been given the consistent amount of carries. Just look at the numbers I provided. The 3 games he has been the absolute starter with the full load he has had 100 yard games or close. Or something like that. There are 2 games I need to clear something up on.

He's a one-dimensional runner that can't do anything but run forward and fall down. When they decide to load the box, it's game over for Redman.

Not really different than any back in the league but okay.

While it might be unfair to compare Redman to these guys, I'm asking for greatness at the position - something we should expect. Right now, we're settling for mediocrity which is unacceptable.

It is only unfair if you continue to ignore the numbers I provided. Those guys have more yards and a couple more big plays but they also have 50-100 more carries. Not to mention lines rated a lot higher in run blocking than the Steelers.

No. No. No. We don't want or need another Jerome Bettis. This isn't the 90's - playing "smash mouth football" doesn't work anymore.

Actually it does. Time of Possession is a very important part of the game and having runnings that can tire a defense and run out the clock is a big deal. If speed were that significant Mendenhall wouldn't be such a shitty back.

I don't neccessarily want Bettis 2.0 but Bettis 2.0 would work just fine if used right.

This isn't on the coaches, it's the fact that our running backs can only do one thing - run in a straight line with their heads down.

Not just the coaches. The line AND the coaches.

The line we know is shitty. Through the numbers and just a general eye test. The coaches have multiple issues:

1. You can't keep rotating backs in and out. That gives them no chance to find a rythm or get hot. Sure, you can have a back give one a rest once in awhile but they were switching them series by series or quarter by quarter. And I hate to keep harping on numbers but they support the argument. The 3 games in the middle of the year where we had 3 100 yard games were games where the other backs were injured so there was no question as to who was getting the ball.

2. They kill the running backs confidence with this fumble thing. Early in the year they benched Dwyer for a mistake and called him out in front of the team. 1 mistake. Most players don't get that treatment. Move forward to the Browns game where Batch needs some help and consistency and Tomlin benches 3 RB's. Yes, they fumbled but that just kills confidence in the player and the team when shit like that is happening.

Look man. You are making solid points but they don't account for so many relevant things that change the way we should be looking at this.

but I am asking we use a 5th to grab someone like Gillislee or Davis - guys that are small but quick and speedy.

We already have Rainey for that. That would be a wasted pick.

However, that being said, good or "potentially great" running backs don't need elite lines to be efficient, which brings me to my next point.

Nobody said elite lines. But we need better than graded 30th in the league in run blocking.

You're sitting there and telling me that the Bears and Eagles lines have been effective so far at run blocking. Is this a joke?

Not as effective as some but more effective than the Steelers, which was your original argument.

They're that high because the running backs behind them are making them look very, very good.

These statistics are not based on performance of the running back so you are wrong on that. These are the same numbers a lot of NFL teams use to judge there teams. Which looks at game film, weighted averages, each linemens individual performance as well as considering double teams and things like that. You can't find more accurate or telling statistics.

Actually, Redman only had one 100 yard game last season, and it was the playoff game. His other game that he started was against the Titans and he had 49 yards (Dwyer was the one with 100).

It was the game he replaced Mendenhall where he ran for 90+ (that is the other game I was calling 100 give or take....I think I pointed out that it wasn't quite 100 but I say it because it is close enough without needing to type so much).

When they handed him the keys early in the year, it wasn't pretty. 20 yards against Denver, 25 against the Jets, and 27 against Oakland. Dwyer outperformed him in all of those games.

Again, you can't call it handing him the keys when he was basically splitting the carries. And you also can't ignore the fact that our line was awful and none of our backs ran well.

The argument I am making is that when we truly handed Redman the keys, he has had nothing but success and good success at that (barring the Titans game you mentioned).

And as far as who performed better between Redman and Dwyer.....They are 2 and 2 so to speak. In games where they kind of split the load Dwyer ran better twice and Redman ran better twice.

Riddle_Of_Steel
12-13-2012, 02:00 PM
Yes, but that is ignoring the fact we have one of the worst run blocking lines in the league and a dumb rotation at back that lets nobody get a rythm. Those are both pretty significant.

So why doesn't that same rationale apply to Mendenhall as well?



I guess Bettis ran a 4.2 40 huh?

Bettis had an elite offensive line blocking for him a majority of the time he spent with the Steelers, allowing him to just pound it up the gut every play. He was not known for being able to bounce runs to the outside if the middle gets clogged up.



On the other hand you have Redman who is a great blocker and gives Ben the same option in the flats.

But has yet to prove he can carry the load of a full season without the wheels coming off. As another poster already pointed out-- he had one or two good games, but has disappeared otherwise.

Sure he was injured-- but that is why he is not a starting RB.

Neither he nor Dwyer have proven they are the man for 300+ carries per year. Mendenhall already has-- he has brought us multiple 1000+ yard seasons in bonehead's offensive scheme, and was looking to be improving until he got hurt.

Dwyer and Redman both have yet to manage three full games as the starting RB without a wheel breaking.



A run is a run is a run. And he has been consistent when he has been given the consistent amount of carries. Just look at the numbers I provided. The 3 games he has been the absolute starter with the full load he has had 100 yard games or close. Or something like that. There are 2 games I need to clear something up on.

And then he promptly injured his groin and has only just gotten back to near 100% in recent weeks. That does not show us he can carry the rock 300+ times per season and come away with 1000+ yards like Mendy has done.

Riddle_Of_Steel
12-13-2012, 02:05 PM
While I don't have the hatred for Tomlin that JIMINPA has (I think he is a pretty damn good coach, not perfect), I have to agree with his assessment on this Mendenhall situation.

It seems like Tomlin is letting personal feelings get in the way. He benches our most qualified and accomplished RB due to the same mistakes his other RBs also made. Meanwhile, Mike Wallace continues to be the other teams' MVP each game and he hasn't caught any heat at all.

Not having a healthy Mendenhall or feature back is hurting our offense. Dwyer and Redman are a pair of one-hit wonders-- they give a great game here and there, but are not consistent or dependable enough to carry the full load or be the best option in every situation.

Cyphon
12-13-2012, 02:15 PM
So why doesn't that same rationale apply to Mendenhall as well?

It does. I gave many reasons why Mendenhall isn't the best. He doesn't block as well, doesn't run hard, fumbles etc....Those have little to do with the line. If we are talking yards and rythm I agree with you. Part of his problem is our shitty line.

Bettis had an elite offensive line blocking for him a majority of the time he spent with the Steelers, allowing him to just pound it up the gut every play. He was not known for being able to bounce runs to the outside if the middle gets clogged up.

Bettis was able to break off big runs here and there, which is all we need. We have an explosive passing game (sometimes at least) and the running backs do enough when the line doesn't fall to complete shit.

But has yet to prove he can carry the load of a full season without the wheels coming off. As another poster already pointed out-- he had one or two good games, but has disappeared otherwise.

This argument doesn't make any sense. He hasn't proven he can carry the full load because he hasn't gotten the chance to. What I am arguing is that he should get that chance given what the numbers show. In a limited role he has been bad, I won't argue that with you. When he has gotten the main role he has been great though. 4 games with the majority of carries or a definitive starting role. We have 121 game, a 92 yard game, 146 game and the 40 + yard game vs the Titans.

When he has split carries those numbers fall to shit. I don't see what more we need to find out about him.

Dwyer and Redman both have yet to manage three full games as the starting RB without a wheel breaking.

Can't argue that injuries haven't been a problem. It is true.

And then he promptly injured his groin and has only just gotten back to near 100% in recent weeks. That does not show us he can carry the rock 300+ times per season and come away with 1000+ yards like Mendy has done.

True. But he needs the oppurtunity (that he has earned) before we can make a definitive statement.

OX1947
12-13-2012, 02:43 PM
Ben Tate as the number 1 runner next year, Dwyer as 2nd RB and Redman as 3rd down and goaline if you need him. That combo would be perfect.

SteelersCanada
12-13-2012, 02:55 PM
Yes, but that is ignoring the fact we have one of the worst run blocking lines in the league and a dumb rotation at back that lets nobody get a rythm. Those are both pretty significant.

Actually, it's really not one of the worst blocking lines in the NFL when we have everyone up. Here's a shocker: when we have two starting OLinemen down, and then a second string RT goes down, our line hasn't been as productive. Holy shit, who could have seen that coming?

I guess Bettis ran a 4.2 40 huh?

I don't understand the fascination with Bettis. Was he good for his era? Sure. He couldn't succeed in a time where guys like AP and Foster dominate the NFL. He simply wouldn't. He was a glorified fullback playing running back running behind one of the best lines in Steelers history.

Apples and oranges.


On the other hand you have Redman who is a great blocker and gives Ben the same option in the flats.

Redman lacks burst and big play ability, something that would be nice to have in the flat. Just sayin'.

Again, you are ignoring significant factors. None of our running backs did anything in those games because our line was playing awful and nobody got the consistent carries.

I'm ignoring significant factors? Or, maybe the running backs couldn't do anything because they're both bad running backs.

A run is a run is a run. And he has been consistent when he has been given the consistent amount of carries. Just look at the numbers I provided. The 3 games he has been the absolute starter with the full load he has had 100 yard games or close. Or something like that. There are 2 games I need to clear something up on.

No, he hasn't been consistent and that's the point. Again, he runs for 2 yards for 15 carries and then picks up 25 yards on one carry and then 10 more on another. I mean, these are inflated stats. He's not running consistently and he's running inefficiently for the large majority of any given game. He's not an effective running back and he never will be. Out of shape and overweight in an NFL that requires guys his size to also be fast - something he'll never be.

Not really different than any back in the league but okay.

Except, ya know, every single elite back that can bounce it outside and turn it into a 50 yard touchdown. Go watch Adrian Peterson and tell me he runs straight forward and gives up like Redman does if nothing is there. Yeah, every running back is as bad as Redman is. That's sound logic.

It is only unfair if you continue to ignore the numbers I provided. Those guys have more yards and a couple more big plays but they also have 50-100 more carries. Not to mention lines rated a lot higher in run blocking than the Steelers.

For the love of god, for a guy that love statistics you sure love to turn a blind eye to most of them. In the significantly more amount of carries that Forte has, he only has two more "big" runs than Redman. However, he has a significantly higher YPC average. Again, what does this mean? He's a more consistent running back and picks up consistent chunks of yardage, not big gains every so often to inflate his stats.

Read that sentence a couple of times if you have to.

Actually it does. Time of Possession is a very important part of the game and having runnings that can tire a defense and run out the clock is a big deal. If speed were that significant Mendenhall wouldn't be such a shitty back.

What? What does this even mean. Running it up the middle twice and gaining 3 yards, forcing Ben to make magic happen on third down =/= great TOP. Having a guy that can bounce it outside and make a one yard run turn into a five yard run is significant. Redman can't do this and he'll never be able to. Ben is the reason for our TOP, not our shitty running backs and their inability to do anything on first and second down.

Don't condescend me either, please. Mendenhall isn't a franchise running back - no one is arguing that. We're arguing that Redman is garbage too, and we need another running back.

I don't neccessarily want Bettis 2.0 but Bettis 2.0 would work just fine if used right.

No. I want the next AP, please.

1. You can't keep rotating backs in and out. That gives them no chance to find a rythm or get hot. Sure, you can have a back give one a rest once in awhile but they were switching them series by series or quarter by quarter. And I hate to keep harping on numbers but they support the argument. The 3 games in the middle of the year where we had 3 100 yard games were games where the other backs were injured so there was no question as to who was getting the ball.

Do they have a choice? Dwyer has 5 carries and picks up 2 yards, so they turn to Redman. Unfortunately, he has very similar results and they're forced to go back to Dwyer. They're being given chances to be consistent, but again, they're not capitalizing. Why? They're mediocre backs and play like such.

2. They kill the running backs confidence with this fumble thing. Early in the year they benched Dwyer for a mistake and called him out in front of the team. 1 mistake. Most players don't get that treatment. Move forward to the Browns game where Batch needs some help and consistency and Tomlin benches 3 RB's. Yes, they fumbled but that just kills confidence in the player and the team when shit like that is happening.

Redman has fumbled twice in the redzone - that's getting your ass sat. Also, you're all about bringing up how Mendenhall has fumbled, let's talk about how Redman has put the ball on the ground twice in our own redzone.

You fumble, you're getting sat. I don't see a problem with that.

We already have Rainey for that. That would be a wasted pick.

Mike Gillislee is 5'10 210 pounds. Knile Davis is 6'0 235. They're smaller than both Redman and Dwyer, but they're prototypical size for a running back. Chris Rainey is 5'9 180 - there's a distinction here. Gillislee is a smaller guy, but makes up for it with his speed and quickness.

These statistics are not based on performance of the running back so you are wrong on that. These are the same numbers a lot of NFL teams use to judge there teams. Which looks at game film, weighted averages, each linemens individual performance as well as considering double teams and things like that. You can't find more accurate or telling statistics.

They're based on the running backs ability to get yardage. How they do so isn't really ever made clear, but it's a statistic that no one takes seriously. Why? It's one hundred percent subjective. Grading an offensive line that high that allows their quarterback to be sacked more times than Roethlisberger over the last 3 years is ridiculous and it's a garbage statistic. We're not wrong or right here - it's a subjective stat.

edit - you keep talking about how backs that split carries can't get into groove and are ineffective - what about Ben Tate? Ben Tate has about 40 less carries and only 100 less yards than Redman has. He's running behind Arian Foster and averaging 4.5 YPC - a truly impressive stat. He's the kind of running back we should have on this team. He's built strong but has the speed and quickness to bounce it outside to make a big play happen. It's not rocket science, here. Redman can't do anything we need him to and he's proven that in the carries he's been given. He needs to be a cap casualty next year.

Cyphon
12-13-2012, 03:28 PM
Actually, it's really not one of the worst blocking lines in the NFL when we have everyone up. Here's a shocker: when we have two starting OLinemen down, and then a second string RT goes down, our line hasn't been as productive. Holy shit, who could have seen that coming?

I am not arguing that. But our line hasn't been healthy so it is still on them if they suck. We don't blame the running backs for not being able to break 4 tackles in the backfield. Only Barry Sanders can do that.

I don't understand the fascination with Bettis.

Tbh Bettis isn't that important. I was just pointing out you don't need to be fast to be successful.

Redman lacks burst and big play ability, something that would be nice to have in the flat. Just sayin'.

Nice to have but not a neccessity. With 100 less carries he has a comparable amount of 20 + gains to McCoy and Forte that I showed in the stats earlier. I am assuming we are calling 20+ big plays. Which Redman is capable of.

I'm ignoring significant factors?

Yeah. I have pointed them out multiple times already. You have to account for a 30th ranked run blocking line and the coaching decisions to not feature one back in particular when the numbers clearly show when you feature one they have ran better.

No, he hasn't been consistent and that's the point.

You can't be consistent if you are given inconsistent carries.

Let me break down the argument a bit better so we aren't confused on the issue I want to point out.

What I am arguing is that given the full load or major majority of carries (ie the feature back) Redman can be successful. The numbers completely support this stance.

Last year he had 3 games where he was essentially the feature back. He ran for 49, 92 and 121. That is 2 out of 3 strong performances.

This year he had 1 game as the feature back and ran for 146 yards.

So 3 out of 4 times he has been the feature back he has proven he can do it at a high level.

What you are pointing out to counter this is that he has been inconcistent as a running back splitting carries. Those are 2 completely different things. As you said, apples and oranges.

I agree with you 100% that he was bad in a limited role. But no back really is good in such a limited role. Just look how badly Ray Rice has been used this year and he is one of the best in the league. Cam Cameron is now gone because of it.

I am saying, give Redman the full load and see what he can do. He has earned it based on his other performances with the full load. Pointing out that he hasn't been consistent splitting carries doesn't work because it isn't what I am arguing nor is it the same thing.

Now if he gets the chance and fails, fine. You are right. He is fat and can't be successful. But to this point the numbers say you are wrong.

Go watch Adrian Peterson and tell me he runs straight forward and gives up like Redman does if nothing is there. Yeah, every running back is as bad as Redman is. That's sound logic.

There are a couple things wrong with this:

1. You are comparing the best in the NFL and maybe on of the best ever to someone who is more or less a backup. Of course the numbers aren't going to match. You can only compare if Redman is getting similar oppurtunities. What is telling is that some of the other strong backs you mentioned (Forte and McCoy) aren't far removed from Redman even though they have far more chances and better blocking lines.

2. I will pay you a million dollars if you can find a single play where Redman gave up on a run that was stuffed from the beginning. He is one of the hardest fighting backs in the NFL, regardless of success.

For the love of god, for a guy that love statistics you sure love to turn a blind eye to most of them.

I would love for you to give one example of a statistic I have ignored. I'll wait.......

However, he has a significantly higher YPC average.

You are still leaving out key factors here.

First, the YPC difference is far from significant. It isn't even a whole yard more. Second thing is, you are still ignoring the difference in the offensive line as well as what my main argument is. Which is that Redman is better as the feature back. You want YPC averages? Fine.

In games where Redman was the feature back he has averages of 5.7, 7.1, 4.8 and 3.3. That comes out to a 5.2 average. Above Forte.

Redman can't do this

False. See the stats above. As a feature back he did it and did it well. Not to mention his great short yardage efficiency to keep the changes moving.

No. I want the next AP, please.

We all do but it is far from our biggest need.

They're being given chances to be consistent, but again, they're not capitalizing. Why? They're mediocre backs and play like such.

Wrong again. Just see the provided statistics. When one back has been made the feature back (mainly Redman I refer to) they have been consistent.

Redman has fumbled twice in the redzone - that's getting your ass sat. Also, you're all about bringing up how Mendenhall has fumbled, let's talk about how Redman has put the ball on the ground twice in our own redzone.

I honestly don't remember those instances. Can you tell me what games they were? In any case, Mendenhall has a bigger fumble history as well as fumbling in key games at key times. They honestly aren't even comparable.

You fumble, you're getting sat. I don't see a problem with that.

Well, maybe you like the coaching style, I dunno. But that train of thought applies nowhere else throughout the league. 1 mistake doesn't lead to benching and such. You give people a chance to redeem themselves and get hot. You don't crush confidence and basically tell the rest of the team you have no faith in any of your guys.

They're based on the running backs ability to get yardage.

No, they aren't. I have already explained to you how they are determined. They look at individual linemen performances such as things like pancakes and stuff, they look at game tape, account for double teams and things of that nature.

You may be looking at the stats from football outsiders but those aren't the ones I am referring to. I provided those because even on a different scale they have the Steelers O line as the worst of the 4 teams we are discussing. On the Pro Football Focus site (the same stats NFL teams use to judge themselves) it is a completely different scale but still agrees the Steelers are the worst of the 4.

tanda10506
12-13-2012, 03:52 PM
None of our RB's can run behind a terrible O line. When the O line plays well then Redman and Dwyer run the ball well, when we only have 2 or 3 starters on the O line and some of them are out of place then Dwyer and Redman can't run at all. It's not all on the RB or all on the O line, they both have to be doing well for us to have any type of run game. Football is a team sport. Could some other big contract back run it better behind our decimated O line? Maybe a bit, but not that much better and definitely not so much better that they would be worth giving a big contract to. We have WR's, a good TE, and Rainey for big play potential, we don't necessarily have to have a back that can take it to the house, let's just get 5 or 6 when the Oline does there job. 6+ yards per carry will force the defense to change it's approach and will keep the ball moving.

I was reading through kind of quickly since I'm at work, but whoever said Bettis was overrated and just a glorified FB is an idiot. The guy is going in to the Hall of Fame, but forget about that, your more qualified to say whether he was a good RB or not right? :blah:

Riddle_Of_Steel
12-13-2012, 04:21 PM
I was reading through kind of quickly since I'm at work, but whoever said Bettis was overrated and just a glorified FB is an idiot. The guy is going in to the Hall of Fame, but forget about that, your more qualified to say whether he was a good RB or not right? :blah:

That poster can speak for himself, but in his defense, I think in the context of the conversation-- his point was that Bettis was a north-south back and not one to break big plays around the edges or in open space so much. The Bettis comparisons came up because Dwyer is once again being compared to the Bus.

BlockMonsta
12-13-2012, 05:35 PM
We have 3 turds at running back. Pick which one has the most tolerable smell, and there ya go.

Right and we have one guy on the internet who is not in the NFL yet talks trash on people that are. Actully almost everyone on this site is the same way.

BlaZeQuietly
12-13-2012, 06:14 PM
Mendenhall has sucks ever since we passed on chris johnson and took mendy, he has always danced around and ran sideways, his first year I saw some hope for him, but his work ethic or something is wrong because he just got shittier and shittier. Redman does run with power, and is okay for now. Dwyer is a little better than Redman IM, but not much better. Bottome line is all three of the clowns are duds, props to redman and dwyer for actually trying. Mendy can go to hell for not showing up, just because he got benched for sucking so bad. I really think that half back should be out #1 priority to fill in the off season. We should probably use our first draft pick for a good half back, and keep dwyer or redman around for full back, I guess redman would make the better blocker. Anyways we can't have this one dimensional offense any more, its putting to much pressure on Big Ben and our young and talented receiving core, We've all hated on wallace this season, but I really think if we let wallace sanders and brown mature a little more they will be just fine. We just need a running game. Fix that and our offense is much better, yeah our line could use improvement but what good is a line if we have no running back? None of our back are threats for big gains, maybe a 10 yard run here and there but I don;t think any of them can bust for a 50 yard TD run like peterson or some of the better RBs in the league....

teegre
12-13-2012, 07:10 PM
I was reading through kind of quickly since I'm at work, but whoever said Bettis was overrated and just a glorified FB is an idiot. The guy is going in to the Hall of Fame, but forget about that, your more qualified to say whether he was a good RB or not right? :blah:

Dude, Bettis sucked.

He rode on the coat-tails of QBs who used precision passing to spread the field, which forced the SS (and sometimes even a LB) to drop back into coverage. Even I could run in those open running lanes (six in the box will do that for a RB).

The next time that Bettis sees them, Bettis owes Kent Graham, Mike Tomczak, and Jim Miller each a beer.

:wink02:

tony hipchest
12-13-2012, 08:36 PM
1. His nickname for years has been Redzone Redman. He has that name for a reason and only now are we deciding to really lean on him for short yardage plays.



the reason is bacause redzone and redman both start with the word "red". it has as much to do with his redzone production as mendy getting his "nickname" looking like morks girlfriend. na-noo na-noo.

if isaacs last name was Benchworth his nickmname would be "bench warmer benchworth".

:noidea:

Cyphon
12-13-2012, 08:58 PM
the reason is bacause redzone and redman both start with the word "red". it has as much to do with his redzone production as mendy getting his "nickname" looking like morks girlfriend. na-noo na-noo.

if isaacs last name was Benchworth his nickmname would be "bench warmer benchworth".

:noidea:

Lol. That is pretty funny.

But nah. It came from his production in his goal line drills vs the Steelers D and/or from his early years with the team when he scored a bunch in preseason.

ricardisimo
12-13-2012, 09:16 PM
Lol. That is pretty funny.

But nah. It came from his production in his goal line drills vs the Steelers D and/or from his early years with the team when he scored a bunch in preseason.
Your claim was that we were finally starting to lean on him in the redzone, but that doesn't seem to be true. I've seen Dwyer and Rainey getting the call more often.

Cyphon
12-13-2012, 11:09 PM
Your claim was that we were finally starting to lean on him in the redzone, but that doesn't seem to be true. I've seen Dwyer and Rainey getting the call more often.

Did I claim that? Tomlin talked about him being good at short yardage and pass protection so he would get those roles or whatever. The redzone was never mentioned.

In any case, he did get that nickname for a reason so they should rely on him in the redzone.

BlaZeQuietly
12-13-2012, 11:48 PM
DUDE We don't even have a legitimate Halfback. We have two people that could pass for mediocre fullbacks and one guy with a bad attitude that isnt worth 10% of what hes getting paid and has a poorest attitude and makes me sick, it is insulting to the fans. Then weve got one guy that we could run as a half back for 2 plays before he gets splattered all over the field (rainey). We are best off just letting reman and dwyer split carries, thats our only shot at a running game, no way were going anywhere if we make the playoffs with that running game, no way.

Cyphon
12-14-2012, 12:03 AM
Splitting carries hasn't been successful.

One should be featured and Redman having more upside, should get the job.

LayingTheWoodley56
12-16-2012, 08:49 AM
I completely agree with the OP. Dwyer has been effective at times and a pleasant surprise this season, don't get me wrong, but like you I have always been impressed by Redman's refusal to go down easily. He always seems to get every last inch he can and often that translates to 3, 4 extra yards or more. At this point, it should be a Dwyer/Redman platoon in my opinion, with it more weighted towards Red's side.

steelersfan299
12-16-2012, 10:40 AM
The Steelers wouldn't be doing anything with Dwyer right now if he hadn't had those two back to back 100-yard rushing games. Now that Mendenhall's healthy they need to get him back on track. They should be better at running the ball now that they have David DeCastro to help blocking.

The depth chart should be- Mendenhall, Redman, Dwyer, Batch, Rainey

Cyphon
12-16-2012, 06:56 PM
Tonight just further solidifies my point.

Dwyer 9 for 22
Redman 3 for 30


It just can't get any more clear than I have made it already at this point.

steelersfan299
12-16-2012, 08:18 PM
Mendenhall could be a good starter they just haven't given him many chances since he came back from that injury. Just get him back on track and he can start again.

Cyphon
12-16-2012, 08:20 PM
No, Mendenhall should not be are starter. He isn't a good fit for us. He doesn't run hard, he is hesistant and has fumble issues.

steeltheone
12-16-2012, 11:36 PM
Did any of you think this was not an issue in August? Check the prior post!!!

TRH
12-16-2012, 11:41 PM
guess what position will likely be addressed on the offense this off-season??

steelersfan299
12-17-2012, 02:42 PM
No, Mendenhall should not be are starter. He isn't a good fit for us. He doesn't run hard, he is hesistant and has fumble issues.

He played well in the past he just didn't get many chances this year and he was hurt. He's only had 34 attempts this year, and he usually has over 200.

GoFor7
12-17-2012, 02:52 PM
Also keep in mind Mendenhall got upset when half of Bin Laden's head was blown off. How do you think Dan Rooney, someone who serves this country, felt about that?

Cyphon
12-17-2012, 04:11 PM
He played well in the past he just didn't get many chances this year and he was hurt. He's only had 34 attempts this year, and he usually has over 200.

Last year he had 2 100 yard games. That isn't "well" for a feature back drafted in the 1st round.

Redman had about that many in 2 and a half starts.

defence
12-17-2012, 04:12 PM
Also keep in mind Mendenhall got upset when half of Bin Laden's head was blown off. How do you think Dan Rooney, someone who serves this country, felt about that?

Hey. With all due respect, why didn't they get rid of him at the end of last season if this were the case. Reality here is mendy is the best option and Tomlin is giving it to him for the fumbles in the Cleveland game. :hatsoff:

GoFor7
12-17-2012, 04:47 PM
Hey. With all due respect, why didn't they get rid of him at the end of last season if this were the case. Reality here is mendy is the best option and Tomlin is giving it to him for the fumbles in the Cleveland game. :hatsoff:

Had they released him, they wouldn't get complementary draft picks. If he walks in free agency, they could get an extra pick.

austinfrench76
12-17-2012, 09:56 PM
Sorry if this link is already posted but this is odd!!! They break a long standing tradition for Mendenhall????

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/steelers-mendenhall-contract-talks-185004136--nfl.html

Blackout
12-17-2012, 10:06 PM
Also keep in mind Mendenhall got upset when half of Bin Laden's head was blown off. How do you think Dan Rooney, someone who serves this country, felt about that?

Mendenhall was actually right. Saw what happened in Connecticut, this is the exact type of ideology that he is exposing. We live in a violent culture and we glorify it too. When we go on our way with American Imperalism by violent domination throughout the world. How did we repsond to 9/11? With more violence. We love retribution more than we turn the other cheek.

But really to keep going back to this is inane. Start measuring what he does on the field, not by how many tweets you find to be offensive.

GoFor7
12-17-2012, 10:17 PM
Mendenhall was actually right. Saw what happened in Connecticut, this is the exact type of ideology that he is exposing. We live in a violent culture and we glorify it too. When we go on our way with American Imperalism by violent domination throughout the world. How did we repsond to 9/11? With more violence. We love retribution more than we turn the other cheek.

But really to keep going back to this is inane. Start measuring what he does on the field, not by how many tweets you find to be offensive.

Sorry, but no. Bin Laden killed thousands of Americans and many more people in the Middle East that didn't agree with his radical views. And given that Dan Rooney served the county, I've got a feeling he wasn't too happy with Mendenhall's comments.

TheVet
12-17-2012, 10:56 PM
But really to keep going back to this is inane. Start measuring what he does on the field, not by how many tweets you find to be offensive.
We've already been there, already done that. He's been given every chance, but Mendy is our 3rd back based on what he's put on tape.

As Tomlin would say, we acknowledge that.

ricardisimo
12-17-2012, 10:56 PM
Sorry, but no. Bin Laden killed thousands of Americans and many more people in the Middle East that didn't agree with his radical views. And given that Dan Rooney served the county, I've got a feeling he wasn't too happy with Mendenhall's comments.
Bin Laden may have killed thousands of Americans. We have reasons to believe so, some good, some bad. Unfortunately, because it was more important to kill him (for votes and nothing else, make no mistake) than to seek justice, we will never know now. It would have been nice to put him on trial and expose his hatred and religious myopia, but instead we exposed our own to the world.

That's at least partly what Mendenhall was talking about.

Hawaii 5-0
12-17-2012, 11:02 PM
Mendenhall was actually right.

Mendy's tweets about 9/11 were ignorant, did you read any of them?

TheVet
12-17-2012, 11:07 PM
Bin Laden may have killed thousands of Americans. We have reasons to believe so, some good, some bad. Unfortunately, because it was more important to kill him (for votes and nothing else, make no mistake) than to seek justice, we will never know now. It would have been nice to put him on trial and expose his hatred and religious myopia, but instead we exposed our own to the world.

That's at least partly what Mendenhall was talking about.

Bin Laden himself claimed responsibility for 9/11, with specific comments as to why and how, and the internal debate about how things would unfold ... Bin Laden himself believed that the towers would collapse, whereas others in Al Qaeda were not so hopeful.

Anyway, it takes a lots of stupidity, insensitivity and arrogance to blast that crap out on Twitter. And let's not even talk about whether the towers really came down due to airplanes, lol. Anyone who's capable of reading can check out the Popular Mechanics book, which refutes every known moronic belief promulgated by the 9/11 truther movement.

And lest we forget, there's Mendy's great TWITter about the NFL being a slave owners league, and the players being mere slaves.... so insulting to the memory of those human beings who actually were slaves, and their descendants who carry that legacy....

What a fumbling fool. Actually, "Running back.....Confusion" is a great way to describe him!

FrancoLambert
12-17-2012, 11:11 PM
Running back confusion? Not in my mind.
We have 3 very mediocre running backs and one on his way out of Pittsburgh.
Unfortunately, he has the most all around talent by far.

Rotorhead
12-18-2012, 09:47 AM
Back on topic, the original poster was talking about Redman. I think had he not had his hammy issues sll season ling he would hsve been the starter, he showed last game he is capanle of bouncing outside, runs hard, has some cuts and moves and can catch out of the backfield. He does lack the pure speed but obviously has enough to bresk off some good runs. And ge has shown he doesnt fold in the playoffs (he had that great run that knocked the Ravens out). Now if we could solve this injury issue that is killing us!