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Hawaii 5-0
12-16-2012, 10:24 PM
Roethlisberger Disappointed There Wasn’t More No-huddle Used Against Cowboys

Sunday, December 16th, 2012 by Dave Bryan

Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger took the blame for the 27-24 overtime loss on Sunday to the Dallas Cowboys, but he also made it pretty clear via his post game responses to questions that he was not happy that they didn't get the ball to tight end Heath Miller more and that he was disappointed in not being able to run more no-huddle in the second half.

Roethlisberger was asked if the Cowboys defense did something different in the second half to take away Miller.

"No, I just don't think that we called the right plays to get him the ball," said Roethlisberger. "There were a couple of times we called plays that we didn't execute correctly."

Roethlisberger was also asked about the lack of no-huddle offense used in the second half and he finally responded after an awkward long pause.

"The second half we really didn't do much of it and that's disappointing," said the Steelers quarterback.

It is no secret that Roethlisberger likes to be in control of the offense, and although there has been no real notable blowups between him and offensive coordinator Todd Haley this season, you can tell by his post game comments that he was very unhappy with the play calling on Sunday as well as the lack of use of the no-huddle.

The Steelers can't afford to lose another game if they want to make the playoffs. Should they wind up not making the post season tournament you can expect that you will hear more from Roethlisberger in regard to his dissatisfaction with Haley and his offense. Roethlisberger clearly thinks the offense should have more of his input and this could ultimately lead to a quick exodus of Haley if he gets his wish.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/12/roethlisberger-disappointed-there-wasnt-more-no-huddle-used-against-cowboys/

Darkstorm05
12-16-2012, 10:28 PM
Roethlisberger Disappointed There Wasn’t More No-huddle Used Against Cowboys

Sunday, December 16th, 2012 by Dave Bryan

Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger took the blame for the 27-24 overtime loss on Sunday to the Dallas Cowboys, but he also made it pretty clear via his post game responses to questions that he was not happy that they didn't get the ball to tight end Heath Miller more and that he was disappointed in not being able to run more no-huddle in the second half.

Roethlisberger was asked if the Cowboys defense did something different in the second half to take away Miller.

"No, I just don't think that we called the right plays to get him the ball," said Roethlisberger. "There were a couple of times we called plays that we didn't execute correctly."

Roethlisberger was also asked about the lack of no-huddle offense used in the second half and he finally responded after an awkward long pause.

"The second half we really didn't do much of it and that's disappointing," said the Steelers quarterback.

It is no secret that Roethlisberger likes to be in control of the offense, and although there has been no real notable blowups between him and offensive coordinator Todd Haley this season, you can tell by his post game comments that he was very unhappy with the play calling on Sunday as well as the lack of use of the no-huddle.

The Steelers can't afford to lose another game if they want to make the playoffs. Should they wind up not making the post season tournament you can expect that you will hear more from Roethlisberger in regard to his dissatisfaction with Haley and his offense. Roethlisberger clearly thinks the offense should have more of his input and this could ultimately lead to a quick exodus of Haley if he gets his wish.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/12/roethlisberger-disappointed-there-wasnt-more-no-huddle-used-against-cowboys/

I somehow doubt that a play was sent in calling for Ben to end the game by throwing up an interception. TBH, when an offense is executing as poorly as we were, I don't see why a coach would let the players take more control.

Steel_Bus_24
12-16-2012, 10:33 PM
I want to know who the hell called that PA Pass from under center on 2nd and 18 toward the end of regulation????

That was a sh** call that was obviously going to get Ben sacked

austinfrench76
12-16-2012, 10:34 PM
^^^^ Exactly!!!!!! WTF is he talking about??? He threw the pic. Nothing to do with the play calling.

ZoneBlitzer
12-16-2012, 10:35 PM
Hire Cam.

ZoneBlitzer
12-16-2012, 10:39 PM
^^^^ Exactly!!!!!! WTF is he talking about??? He threw the pic. Nothing to do with the play calling.

And a bad throw at that, short and inside.

Fire Arians
12-16-2012, 10:44 PM
yeah cause the no huddle worked so well in overtime.

KentGraham
12-16-2012, 10:50 PM
Ben has been so passive aggressive with the media all year in regard to Haley.

GoFor7
12-16-2012, 11:11 PM
yeah cause the no huddle worked so well in overtime.

I believe his gripe doesn't have to do with just this game, but in general. The fans have been told there would be more no-huddle this year, and it really hasn't happened. That's probably because the Steelers are enamored with time of possession.

Oh well, no different than any other year.

Hawaii 5-0
12-16-2012, 11:22 PM
yeah cause the no huddle worked so well in overtime.

that's exactly what my first thought was when I read this article.

great minds obviously think alike...:drink:

Stairway2-7
12-16-2012, 11:37 PM
yeah cause the no huddle worked so well in overtime.

I thought this once I read the title. Seems to me like there is maybe a bigger problem between Ben and Haley than we thought. Or maybe Im looking to much into it.

Hawaii 5-0
12-16-2012, 11:39 PM
I thought this once I read the title. Seems to me like there is maybe a bigger problem between Ben and Haley than we thought. Or maybe Im looking to much into it.

no, I think you are correct.

Ben loved Arians and Haley was the one who replaced Arians. as a result, Ben is never going to totally buy into what Haley is selling...

GoFor7
12-16-2012, 11:42 PM
no, I think you are correct.

Ben loved Arians and Haley was the one who replaced Arians. as a result, Ben is never going to totally buy into what Haley is selling...

Part of me has always wondered if this is the offense Todd Haley really wants to run, or if this is the offense Art Rooney is making him run. If the latter is true, some of these comments about the offense might not all be aimed at Haley.

ZoneBlitzer
12-17-2012, 12:00 AM
Whoa.

http://triblive.com/sports/dejankovacevic/dejancolumns/3144653-74/roethlisberger-haley-miller#axzz2FEoiznJ3


Kovacevic: Ben's audible on Haley loud, clear

By Dejan Kovacevic
Published: Sunday, December 16, 2012

ARLINGTON, Texas — Antonio Brown‘s eyes were beet red, bloodshot almost beyond recognition. One could easily hazard a guess why, after his litany of late mistakes loomed so large in the Steelers‘ knife-twisting 27-24 loss to the Cowboys on Sunday.

“It‘s my fault,” Brown fairly whispered.

No, actually, it wasn‘t.

Not entirely, anyway.

Ben Roethlisberger stood equally tall in manning up for his overtime interception, one that not only sealed defeat but also — maybe most crushingly — conjured up nightmares of Neil O‘Donnell and Larry Brown.

“This is on me, 100 percent,” Roethlisberger said. “I let my team down, the fans, everybody.”

Nope. Sorry again, but that‘s just not the whole truth.

Not after this maddeningly inconsistent team has stumbled all season to find an identity even when one is thrust in its collective face.

Not after simple results show again and again how it operates best and, yet, the team still sticks by what it wishes it could do.

Not after Heath Miller is targeted six times in the first half, catches all six for 85 yards and a touchdown, then never has his number called in the second half by offensive coordinator Todd Haley and, ultimately, coach Mike Tomlin. Not once.

That‘s not just stubborn. It‘s stupid.

So good for Roethlisberger for being bluntly candid when I asked if Dallas‘ defense had done something to take away Miller after halftime.

“No,” he replied without hesitation, “I just don‘t think we called the right plays to get him the ball.”

Whoa, right?

You know, there have been occasions going back to Bruce Arians‘ retirement/firing and Haley‘s hiring where Roethlisberger has made veiled — even thinly veiled — criticisms of his newly imposed coordinator. But none came close to this.

And he wasn‘t done.

Roethlisberger was asked about the no-huddle, which the Steelers used Sunday when they looked most fluid — kind of like always — and he said, after a lengthy hesitation: “I don‘t … that‘s tough for me to answer right now. In the second half, we really didn‘t do much of it. And, um, that‘s disappointing.”

Double-whoa, right?

But wait. Even in describing his shining moment, the eternal scramble that led to Miller‘s touchdown, this was his Roethlisberger‘s recap: “The play got called, and they went to a prevent defense, so the play that was called wasn‘t a good play. At all. So we just started making a play, I saw Heath and just tried to get it to him.”

Hat trick of whoas!

Make no mistake: What the Steelers have right here is a 100-percent legitimate, non-manufactured quarterback vs. coordinator controversy.

And I‘ll say it again: Good.

Maybe that‘s what this team needs to regain its identity: Take it by force.

This game wasn‘t lost in overtime. I don‘t even think it was lost with Brown repeatedly losing his mind.

Ask me, and it began to get lost on the Steelers‘ opening drive of the second half, after Brown returned a punt to the 50 and continued all the momentum Miller had generated almost singlehandedly to that point.

Here was your go-for-the-jugular play-calling from Haley:

• Jonathan Dwyer over right guard, 4 yards.

• Dwyer up the middle, 1 yard.

• Roethlisberger incomplete short pass to Dwyer in right flat.

Yeah. Way to step on that Texas rattlesnake, gentlemen.

If it ended there, OK, no big deal. But when play after play kept getting called without No. 83 involved, it became clear that Haley was doing exactly what the Cowboys couldn‘t: He was shutting down Miller.

Miller didn‘t see another ball until the first play of overtime, which, naturally, he caught.

I asked Miller if he was disappointed, and he kept to his low-key profile: “That‘s just the way the game goes. I understand it.”

I‘m not sure why anyone would.

Tomlin‘s got his work cut out for him. His team is spiraling downward at 7-7, he‘s got to get them to show up for a critical showdown with the Bengals next Sunday — hardly a given — and, on top of that, be sure that he‘ll have to deal with the Roethlisberger-Haley situation.

No team can function without its quarterback and offensive coordinator on the same page, and these guys aren‘t in the same library right now.

I don‘t know about you, but I‘m with the quarterback on this. I really don‘t care how smart Haley is, really don‘t care if the Steelers ever find a way to run between the tackles (they‘ve had one outside run the past two games), really don‘t even care if Haley‘s with the team beyond this season or not.

The franchise player, that‘s different.

It‘s well past time the Steelers start hearing what he has to say before he starts calling far more serious audibles.

GoFor7
12-17-2012, 12:02 AM
Uh oh, this looks like a pro-Ben article. Get your pitchforks! Lynch Dejan!

SteelBobbleHead
12-17-2012, 12:08 AM
And a bad throw at that, short and inside.

It doesn't help when a receiver rounds off his out route as oppossed to a crisp, hard cut. I can't put this all on Ben. Bad pass at the worst time? Absolutely. Did Ben make plays on his own that had this team ahead? Absolutely.
He didn't fumble a ball that may have put the game away. AB did. And WTF was AB thinking running out of bounds on the 3rd down play with under 2 minutes to go saving the cowboys a timeout. A lot of these players show the same game situation awareness as their coach. I don't think that is a coicidence.

SteelBobbleHead
12-17-2012, 12:17 AM
[QUOTE][Even in describing his shining moment, the eternal scramble that led to Miller‘s touchdown, this was his Roethlisberger‘s recap: “The play got called, and they went to a prevent defense, so the play that was called wasn‘t a good play. At all. So we just started making a play, I saw Heath and just tried to get it to him.” /QUOTE]

I'm not exactly sure what to make of this, beyond Ben being frustrated. Is it telling us Ben recognized it was a bad play call pre-snap and didn't/is not allowed to audible out of it?
It is telling us after the snap he realized it was a bad play call and went back yard football to make something happen?

Hawaii 5-0
12-17-2012, 12:26 AM
Kovacevic: Ben's audible on Haley loud, clear

By Dejan Kovacevic
Published: Sunday, December 16, 2012

ARLINGTON, Texas — Antonio Brown‘s eyes were beet red, bloodshot almost beyond recognition. One could easily hazard a guess why, after his litany of late mistakes loomed so large in the Steelers‘ knife-twisting 27-24 loss to the Cowboys on Sunday.

“It‘s my fault,” Brown fairly whispered.

No, actually, it wasn‘t.

Not entirely, anyway.

Ben Roethlisberger stood equally tall in manning up for his overtime interception, one that not only sealed defeat but also — maybe most crushingly — conjured up nightmares of Neil O‘Donnell and Larry Brown.

“This is on me, 100 percent,” Roethlisberger said. “I let my team down, the fans, everybody.”

Nope. Sorry again, but that‘s just not the whole truth.

Not after this maddeningly inconsistent team has stumbled all season to find an identity even when one is thrust in its collective face.

Not after simple results show again and again how it operates best and, yet, the team still sticks by what it wishes it could do.

Not after Heath Miller is targeted six times in the first half, catches all six for 85 yards and a touchdown, then never has his number called in the second half by offensive coordinator Todd Haley and, ultimately, coach Mike Tomlin. Not once.

That‘s not just stubborn. It‘s stupid.

So good for Roethlisberger for being bluntly candid when I asked if Dallas‘ defense had done something to take away Miller after halftime.

“No,” he replied without hesitation, “I just don‘t think we called the right plays to get him the ball.”

Whoa, right?

You know, there have been occasions going back to Bruce Arians‘ retirement/firing and Haley‘s hiring where Roethlisberger has made veiled — even thinly veiled — criticisms of his newly imposed coordinator. But none came close to this.

And he wasn‘t done.

Roethlisberger was asked about the no-huddle, which the Steelers used Sunday when they looked most fluid — kind of like always — and he said, after a lengthy hesitation: “I don‘t … that‘s tough for me to answer right now. In the second half, we really didn‘t do much of it. And, um, that‘s disappointing.”

Double-whoa, right?

But wait. Even in describing his shining moment, the eternal scramble that led to Miller‘s touchdown, this was his Roethlisberger‘s recap: “The play got called, and they went to a prevent defense, so the play that was called wasn‘t a good play. At all. So we just started making a play, I saw Heath and just tried to get it to him.”

Hat trick of whoas!

Make no mistake: What the Steelers have right here is a 100-percent legitimate, non-manufactured quarterback vs. coordinator controversy.

And I‘ll say it again: Good.

Maybe that‘s what this team needs to regain its identity: Take it by force.

This game wasn‘t lost in overtime. I don‘t even think it was lost with Brown repeatedly losing his mind.

Ask me, and it began to get lost on the Steelers‘ opening drive of the second half, after Brown returned a punt to the 50 and continued all the momentum Miller had generated almost singlehandedly to that point.

Here was your go-for-the-jugular play-calling from Haley:

• Jonathan Dwyer over right guard, 4 yards.

• Dwyer up the middle, 1 yard.

• Roethlisberger incomplete short pass to Dwyer in right flat.

Yeah. Way to step on that Texas rattlesnake, gentlemen.

If it ended there, OK, no big deal. But when play after play kept getting called without No. 83 involved, it became clear that Haley was doing exactly what the Cowboys couldn‘t: He was shutting down Miller.

Miller didn‘t see another ball until the first play of overtime, which, naturally, he caught.

I asked Miller if he was disappointed, and he kept to his low-key profile: “That‘s just the way the game goes. I understand it.”

I‘m not sure why anyone would.

Tomlin‘s got his work cut out for him. His team is spiraling downward at 7-7, he‘s got to get them to show up for a critical showdown with the Bengals next Sunday — hardly a given — and, on top of that, be sure that he‘ll have to deal with the Roethlisberger-Haley situation.

No team can function without its quarterback and offensive coordinator on the same page, and these guys aren‘t in the same library right now.

I don‘t know about you, but I‘m with the quarterback on this. I really don‘t care how smart Haley is, really don‘t care if the Steelers ever find a way to run between the tackles (they‘ve had one outside run the past two games), really don‘t even care if Haley‘s with the team beyond this season or not.

The franchise player, that‘s different.

It‘s well past time the Steelers start hearing what he has to say before he starts calling far more serious audibles.

http://triblive.com/sports/dejankovacevic/dejancolumns/3144653-74/roethlisberger-haley-miller#ixzz2FHfN9Cet

Wallace108
12-17-2012, 12:31 AM
Long before the season started, a few of us here were concerned about Ben and Haley's relationship, and we warned about what could happen if Ben didn't fully buy into Haley's offense. A couple of us even pointed out the similarities between Ben's comments during the offseason and Bubby Brister's back in the early 90s. We were laughed at and told that the media was just taking Ben's comments out of context and making stuff up. We were told that things would be peachy. As we sit here now at 7-7 and hear of Ben's comments after the Cowboys game, is there a possibility that we were right to be concerned back in the summer?

SteelersCanada
12-17-2012, 12:44 AM
Even as I'm typing this I realize it's not going to sound how I want it to, but I'm glad that AB was that emotional after a loss. It's refreshing to see guys that will get like that and man up to their mistakes. I'm not happy he was physically upset, I'm just happy he was upset.

I don't know how to say it - I hope you guys know what I mean.

madtowndrunkard
12-17-2012, 12:45 AM
This whole thing was doomed before it even started.

The funny thing is Ben was looking better then he's ever looked during the first half of the season. We had at least a resemblance of a running game and Ben was deadly efficient. We had some issues on defense...but it looked like we were just a few games away from finding our stride... then the 2nd half collapse.

The injuries came and the coaching staff started shooting them selves in the foot... now we are losing and Ben is pointing fingers.

Just another piece of evidence that the leadership of this team is weak. Good coaches can have bad years...and when they do, the players don't point fingers. We are starting to implode. We are sloppy and unprepared....and capable of being the best team in the NFL.

The players no longer have faith in the coaching staff... when's the last time you saw that in Pittsburgh?

I do remember Bill Cowher taking over the offense once. anyone think Mike Tomlin is capable?

Hawaii 5-0
12-17-2012, 12:46 AM
Long before the season started, a few of us here were concerned about Ben and Haley's relationship, and we warned about what could happen if Ben didn't fully buy into Haley's offense. A couple of us even pointed out the similarities between Ben's comments during the offseason and Bubby Brister's back in the early 90s. We were laughed at and told that the media was just taking Ben's comments out of context and making stuff up. We were told that things would be peachy. As we sit here now at 7-7 and hear of Ben's comments after the Cowboys game, is there a possibility that we were right to be concerned back in the summer?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Vk5yWWqw_C4/UEkBLpLOyjI/AAAAAAAAAfk/gOUoqsr3VfU/s1600/NostradamusPredicts.jpg

Hawaii 5-0
12-17-2012, 12:47 AM
Even as I'm typing this I realize it's not going to sound how I want it to, but I'm glad that AB was that emotional after a loss. It's refreshing to see guys that will get like that and man up to their mistakes. I'm not happy he was physically upset, I'm just happy he was upset.

I don't know how to say it - I hope you guys know what I mean.

no, we understand.

you like sensitive emotional guys...:chuckle:

SteelersCanada
12-17-2012, 12:52 AM
no, we understand.

you like sensitive emotional guys...:chuckle:

Someone gets it! :hug:

Wallace108
12-17-2012, 12:53 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Vk5yWWqw_C4/UEkBLpLOyjI/AAAAAAAAAfk/gOUoqsr3VfU/s1600/NostradamusPredicts.jpg

Seriously? You think I'm making that up NOW? You wanna test me douchebag? :popcorn:

dez09231
12-17-2012, 12:54 AM
He has been prodded and prodded since the preseason. He needs to shut his mouth and be politically correct. We didn't lose because of play calling, we lost because of silly mistakes. Maybe we should've thrown 6 or 7 more bubble screens to avoid these kind of questions.

You know, if my QB had the 30th QB rating in the league on deep ball throws, I would probably be apprehensive to sling it more, too. I think Haley is doing a fairly solid job. It's not his fault Mike Wallace drop balls. It's not his fault there are O-Line injuries. It's not his fault that Mendenhall was hurt, then forgot to hold onto the ball. It's not his fault that Roethlisberger and Wallace have not been on the same page in terms of the deep ball. Haley is solid, the players are just inconsistent overall.

Hawaii 5-0
12-17-2012, 12:55 AM
Seriously? You think I'm making that up NOW? You wanna test me douchebag? :popcorn:

I was just making a joke, sorry you took it the wrong way

teegre
12-17-2012, 12:55 AM
Even as I'm typing this I realize it's not going to sound how I want it to, but I'm glad that AB was that emotional after a loss. It's refreshing to see guys that will get like that and man up to their mistakes. I'm not happy he was physically upset, I'm just happy he was upset.

I don't know how to say it - I hope you guys know what I mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVY0Hy-D7XE

Lady Steel
12-17-2012, 12:56 AM
Seriously? You think I'm making that up NOW? You wanna test me douchebag? :popcorn:

I believe you, Wallace108, because I remember it. If I remember correctly, you and Tony (can't remember if there were others, sorry) were very vocal and concerned about it at the time.

Hawaii 5-0
12-17-2012, 12:57 AM
I believe you, Wallace108, because I remember it. If I remember correctly, you and Tony (can't remember if there were others, sorry) were very vocal and concerned about it at the time.

I believe you too Wallace, not sure why you took my attempt at a joke so in the wrong way...

Wallace108
12-17-2012, 12:57 AM
I was just making a joke, sorry you took it the wrong way

Well, I'm sorry your joke seemed to be implying that I was full of shit. Perhaps you need to work on your delivery. :drink:

Wallace108
12-17-2012, 12:59 AM
I believe you, Wallace108, because I remember it. If I remember correctly, you and Tony (can't remember if there were others, sorry) were very vocal and concerned about it at the time.

Yep. It was me and Hipchest warning that we could be in the very situation we now find ourselves in. Back then, I was really hoping that we were wrong. I'm still hoping that we're wrong and they right the ship.

Lady Steel
12-17-2012, 01:02 AM
Cool! Then let's chalk it up to a big misunderstanding and all be friends again.

Kumbaya and all that. :laughing:

Lady Steel
12-17-2012, 01:04 AM
no, we understand.

you like sensitive emotional guys...:chuckle:

:laughing:

Wallace108
12-17-2012, 01:06 AM
Cool! Then let's chalk it up to a big misunderstanding and all be friends again.

Kumbaya and all that. :laughing:

Yeah, I like Hawaii. It was just a misunderstanding. I took a lot of crap during the summer for pointing out what I was seeing. So now that it appears that I might have been right, I'm not about to be called a liar for claiming that I called it back then.

Hawaii 5-0
12-17-2012, 01:08 AM
Well, I'm sorry your joke seemed to be implying that I was full of shit. Perhaps you need to work on your delivery. :drink:

and maybe you need to work on not jumping to incorrect assumptions and conclusions...

Wallace108
12-17-2012, 01:09 AM
and maybe you need to work on not jumping to incorrect assumptions and conclusions...
Dude, I'm asking you right now to let it go. :drink:

Hawaii 5-0
12-17-2012, 01:14 AM
Yeah, I like Hawaii. It was just a misunderstanding. I took a lot of crap during the summer for pointing out what I was seeing. So now that it appears that I might have been right, I'm not about to be called a liar for claiming that I called it back then.

I would never call you a liar, why would I ever do such a thing?

Wallace108
12-17-2012, 01:20 AM
I would never call you a liar, why would I ever do such a thing?
A lot of people on the Internet claim they said things long after the fact in order to make themselves look smarter than they really are. Read my post again and read the pic you posted. I assumed that's what you were accusing me of. I apologize if my assumption was wrong, but if you're going to make a joke, it needs to be more clear. I assumed the joke was directed at me. Regardless, I accept that it wasn't, so it's over. Let's not derail the thread any further. :drink:

Oh, and I apologize for calling you the name that I called you. Even if you were taking a shot at me, it was still uncalled for.

lardlad
12-17-2012, 01:39 AM
no, I think you are correct.

Ben loved Arians and Haley was the one who replaced Arians. as a result, Ben is never going to totally buy into what Haley is selling...

And that's a freakin shame. Can't say the offense has run as well as I thought it would, but it's not the coaches. Ben wants to question leadership, he needs to spend some time looking in the mirror. All the heat Wallace has taken, he never threw anyone under the bus. Ben doesn't like they play calling, fine work it out. You do not give the media crap like this. Now this crap is out there floating around and it's going to stew in the team and it came from Ben.

This is not how you lead, I don't care how bad the coaching is.

Atlanta Dan
12-17-2012, 07:54 AM
Agree with the earlier poster that Ben has been peddling passive-agressive messages for months. His latest comments are the latest indication of a team coming apart

Starting with the offseason drama with Arians/Haley, it has been a series of problems other than injuries (Wallace holdout/Mendenhall mind games/Woodley getting even fatter). Hines Ward said several weeks ago that there was not a clear leader on offense, which I suppose goes back to Hines for whatever reason always having issues with Ben. With the Chargers having been blown out at home by the freaking Carolina Panthers after last week's disgrace, it seems to me the offense has tuned out the coaches. Only skill player who has performed at a consistently high level is Heath Miller - too bad his do your job and keep your mouth shut attitude is an outlier on the offense

Ben was having his best year and not getting the crap beat out of him every play until the KC injury - the fact that he clearly preferred the good old days when the offensive scheme was regarded by other players as being more for the benefit of Ben than the benefit of the team (Ward also had some comments on that as well) says a lot

For reasons having nothing to do with its record this is one of my least favorite Steelers teams of the last 20 years.

With all the changes coming up Ben is going to need to lead this team in the coming years - his behavior this year makes me wonder if he is up to the task

plenewken
12-17-2012, 08:01 AM
I somehow doubt that a play was sent in calling for Ben to end the game by throwing up an interception. TBH, when an offense is executing as poorly as we were, I don't see why a coach would let the players take more control.

Poor execution is sometimes due to lack of confidence in the play that's been called. Generally, when players believe it's the right call, they are more cautious about executing it well.

ETL
12-17-2012, 08:14 AM
I wish Ben would just say that as the QB he is responsible for losses and leave it at that. (as he gets the accolades for wins - even if it was the defense that helped him earn that win)

steelfury02
12-17-2012, 08:41 AM
IMO - Ben has earned the right to have more input. However, Ben needs to spend more time building chemistry with the receivers and chewing their asses out for dropping the ball and fumbling than worrying about the play call.

EDIT: If Haley is in fact only here for this year, it is my belief that unless they bring up Ben's friend - you'll see more whining and more inconsistency. The flip side of Ben getting his way, is that he'll go back to getting sacked 6 million times instead of 4 million times. I just don't believe his input is for the sake of progress.

Someone mentioned that his career is evening out - I'm starting to lean that way a little - especially when I see the regression of some of the offensive talent. What does it mean when your top 3 receivers can't be counted on? Looking for receivers AGAIN? Yikes!

EDIT 2: This says it all about Ben's capabilities as a leader. If Ben is saying these things to the media - can you imagine what he is saying to his teammates, to the coaches? For a guy that almost got traded to Siberia - I really expect a lot better. After the 2nd allegation against Ben - some people cautioned about Ben going back to being his old self again after the dust settled. Looks like we might already be at this point. There's only one guarantee about the Steelers. If no one steps up Jermoe, Hines, or even Joey Porter style - this team won't win another SB in a looooong time. Did anyone see the NFL Network FX on Peyton Manning? The guy exudes leader and lifts everyone up around him. He is at the top of his game, and the leader-like qualities compliment his sound football. I love Ben's unorthodox play. However, as a person, and apparently his attitude when he doesn't get his way, is just awful. If I'm wrong, then maybe Ben needs to be more PC so fans like me won't call him out on it. Not that it matters - but it looks like Ben's piss poor attitude is also a factor into the 7-7 record. Go ahead Ben, get your way. It won't get you what you want. (1-2 more rings). So sick of this kind of shit:

"But wait. Even in describing his shining moment, the eternal scramble that led to Miller‘s touchdown, this was his Roethlisberger‘s recap: “The play got called, and they went to a prevent defense, so the play that was called wasn‘t a good play. At all. So we just started making a play, I saw Heath and just tried to get it to him.”

GoFor7
12-17-2012, 09:26 AM
IMO - Ben has earned the right to have more input. However, Ben needs to spend more time building chemistry with the receivers and chewing their asses out for dropping the ball and fumbling than worrying about the play call.

EDIT: If Haley is in fact only here for this year, it is my belief that unless they bring up Ben's friend - you'll see more whining and more inconsistency. The flip side of Ben getting his way, is that he'll go back to getting sacked 6 million times instead of 4 million times. I just don't believe his input is for the sake of progress.

Someone mentioned that his career is evening out - I'm starting to lean that way a little - especially when I see the regression of some of the offensive talent. What does it mean when your top 3 receivers can't be counted on? Looking for receivers AGAIN? Yikes!

EDIT 2: This says it all about Ben's capabilities as a leader. If Ben is saying these things to the media - can you imagine what he is saying to his teammates, to the coaches? For a guy that almost got traded to Siberia - I really expect a lot better. After the 2nd allegation against Ben - some people cautioned about Ben going back to being his old self again after the dust settled. Looks like we might already be at this point. There's only one guarantee about the Steelers. If no one steps up Jermoe, Hines, or even Joey Porter style - this team won't win another SB in a looooong time. Did anyone see the NFL Network FX on Peyton Manning? The guy exudes leader and lifts everyone up around him. He is at the top of his game, and the leader-like qualities compliment his sound football. I love Ben's unorthodox play. However, as a person, and apparently his attitude when he doesn't get his way, is just awful. If I'm wrong, then maybe Ben needs to be more PC so fans like me won't call him out on it. Not that it matters - but it looks like Ben's piss poor attitude is also a factor into the 7-7 record. Go ahead Ben, get your way. It won't get you what you want. (1-2 more rings). So sick of this kind of shit:

"But wait. Even in describing his shining moment, the eternal scramble that led to Miller‘s touchdown, this was his Roethlisberger‘s recap: “The play got called, and they went to a prevent defense, so the play that was called wasn‘t a good play. At all. So we just started making a play, I saw Heath and just tried to get it to him.”

If you think Ben is the biggest problem with this team then you need to get your head checked....

Atlanta Dan
12-17-2012, 09:38 AM
If you think Ben is the biggest problem with this team then you need to get your head checked....

Ben's attitude potentially being "a factor" does not indicate it is the biggest problem with the team

Ben has been pining away for Arians all season and it is not helpful

GoFor7
12-17-2012, 09:42 AM
Ben's attitude potentially being "a factor" does not indicate it is the biggest problem with the team

Ben has been pining away for Arians all season and it is not helpful

When has he been saying he wanted Arians back? Deep down does he want it? Wouldn't surprise me. But openly when has he said "bring back Arians?"

steelfury02
12-17-2012, 09:52 AM
When has he been saying he wanted Arians back? Deep down does he want it? Wouldn't surprise me. But openly when has he said "bring back Arians?"

GoFor7 - I'm not stating that Ben is a leading problem. Matter of fact, I believe Ben is the least of the concerns on the offensive side of the ball. However, do you not find it at least a little worrisome that the one guy that is supposed to be the leader, is taking his time to throw the OC under the bus, in front of the media? This is a trend with Ben. As a fan, I get a little tired of hearing about how the Steelers organization is above all else, and then seeing the QB who represents this team acting like the most hated QB next to the dog murderer. It is especially hard to read his passive aggressiveness after all the things he has been accused of. You would think he would be a lot more humbled, at least in front of the cameras. Then you see the likes of Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, both Mannings, Brady - who yes, while I love to hate because the media drools over them and gives them waaay too much love, acting like leaders and honing their game because they are willing to accept the idea that they can become even better and it is doubly hard to take Ben's BS. He has two rings, but as I've stated before - he won't get another one unless he drops the shit-attitude and embraces change. He needs to accept that he doesn't know best and his ego is getting in the way. What kind of friend do you want - the one that blows smoke up your ass all the time telling you how great you are, and you drink your own bathwater - or the friend that tells it like it is and then you truly know where you stand? Ben can be a lot better than he is right now. Hell - I think he could be the best damn QB in the league, if he only could step up to the plate and be the leader he is capable of. There is a difference between 2x winning Super Bowl QB, and those who were able to help create a dynasty with 3 or 4, and especially as they had to make changes as they aged. Ben needs to drop the shit or his best days are behind him.

Atlanta Dan - very succinct - thank you. IMO - Ben needs to be the one guy who isn't saying things, especially now. That is all I'm calling him out for really. Although, I do have a problem with some of his throws, due to the injury - not totally his fault, and, there is no reason to go with someone else - he is our best chance to win, whether at 60 or 100%.

Atlanta Dan
12-17-2012, 09:59 AM
When has he been saying he wanted Arians back? Deep down does he want it? Wouldn't surprise me. But openly when has he said "bring back Arians?"

Oh please - do you really contend the only way to conclude he has been in mourning is if he flat out says bring back Arians

Dissing the current OC to the news media in a manner that he never dissed his good buddy says it all

Yesterday is not the first time he has trashed the play calling

In a story in Sunday's Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Ben Roethlisberger had the following exchange with writer Joe Starkey.

Roethlisberger: "Haley's offense is not a big-play offense, it's kind of a dink-and-dunk offense."

Starkey: "Is there room for more quick strikes?"

Roethlisberger: "We did that last week (82-yard pass to Mike Wallace)."

Starkey: "Right, but you never went back to it."

Roethlisberger: "There's a guy calling the plays. That's on him."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2012/10/21/roethlisberger-criticizes-haley-offense/1647279/

And letting the news media know he was the better man during a sideline confrontation with Haley

"We had one little incident," Roethlisberger said.

It happened during the Denver game Sept. 9 when the Steelers were beaten, 31-19.

"I walked away. I'll leave it at that. I walked away,"


http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/ron-cook/steelers-offense-still-goes-with-ben-654611/#ixzz27IW6v6F9

For good measure he decided to take a shot in mini-camp last May at anyone (I guess that would include the owner who canned BA) who did not like the previous play calling

Ben Roethlisberger is throwing some nice passes at Steelers OTAs. He‘s also throwing some darts, though it can be difficult to decipher their targets. And their significance.

Take our cryptic exchange, for example.

It didn‘t last long, perhaps because Ben had to resume the arduous process of getting a new playbook shoved down his throat. But it might have contained a large clue about coordinator Todd Haley‘s “Rosetta Stone” offense.

Or not.

I began by acknowledging the obvious: Roethlisberger understandably was not pleased with the coordinator change. So is it now just a matter of getting on board?

“Yeah, absolutely,” Ben said. “You have no choice.”

Then came a dart.

“And like I said, every day‘s getting a little bit better, and we‘re learning -- and we‘ll be running the ball a lot this year, so fans should be happy.”

Me: “Will you guys be running a lot?”

Him: “I think so.”

Me: “Is that the plan?”

Him: “That‘s the way it seems ... I know the fans want it, so it looks like they‘ll be getting their wish.”


http://triblive.com/sports/1885118-74/ben-steelers-dejankovacevic-fans-roethlisberger-running-game-getting-joestarkey-starkey#axzz2FKEEWMpT

What you can say and what you should say are different - this crap has been going on all year

Ben is a great QB but his off the field behavior has some shortcomings

steelfury02
12-17-2012, 10:08 AM
Maybe Ben is just cranky cause he isn't getting any and losing sleep because of Ben Jr.!?!?!?

It really is shocking that someone with his history would act the way he's been acting. Of course, maybe it isn't all that much of a surprise, and in fact - while he is one of the best QBs to play the game, that's just it. Other than that - he is a dunder head.

Terminator
12-17-2012, 10:22 AM
Ben is a great QB but his off the field behavior has some shortcomings

off the field behavior has some shortcomings

shortcomings


:wink02::drink:

GoFor7
12-17-2012, 10:26 AM
Ben is a great QB but his off the field behavior has some shortcomings

Wow. You haven't noticed the guy cleaned up his life, got married, and had a kid?

James Harrison has had off the field issues too. Where's all the bitching about that?

steelfury02
12-17-2012, 10:31 AM
Amazingly after having the closest to prison you can get experience for the 2nd time, he all of a sudden found God and got married. Those two acts alone automatically deem you intelligent and you're some great person?

Killers on death row find god and there are plenty of people getting married and spawning more idiots that shouldn't.

I'll stop pretending to know Ben if you stop pretending he is divine and shielded from any and all criticism because he wears the black and gold. I like his play, I've tried to like him as a person. Every time I start to give him a pass, he says or does something that raises a red "I'm an asshole" flag.

Atlanta Dan
12-17-2012, 10:34 AM
Wow. You haven't noticed the guy cleaned up his life, got married, and had a kid?

James Harrison has had off the field issues too. Where's all the bitching about that?

I am not talking about that - I was staying on topic

I am talking about his off the field comments to the news media, assuming he was not giving the quotes i have provided while in the huddle - keep the family business inside the family, especially if you are supposed to be a team leader

GoFor7
12-17-2012, 10:38 AM
Amazingly after having the closest to prison you can get experience for the 2nd time, he all of a sudden found God and got married. Those two acts alone automatically deem you intelligent and you're some great person?

Killers on death row find god and there are plenty of people getting married and spawning more idiots that shouldn't.

I'll stop pretending to know Ben if you stop pretending he is divine and shielded from any and all criticism because he wears the black and gold. I like his play, I've tried to like him as a person. Every time I start to give him a pass, he says or does something that raises a red "I'm an asshole" flag.

Typical yinzer knee-jerk reaction. When did I say he "found God" or is the model human being? When a guy goes from having the issues he did to getting married and having a kid, wouldn't you say some aspects of that person's life improved?

Love how you avoided my question about Harrison's issues.

steelfury02
12-17-2012, 10:40 AM
I am not talking about that - I was staying on topic

I am talking about his off the field comments to the news media, assuming he was not giving the quotes i have provided while in the huddle - keep the family business inside the family, especially if you are supposed to be a team leader

Trust me, there probably has and could be a ton of threads on the gun-toting Harrison. How's that magazine cover looking after this previous Friday's events? The point is for me at least, is that I can love them in the moment and because of their play, as players - doesn't mean I have to like them as a person. I've worked with plenty of people that were "great workers" but I would never, ever befriend them.

Atlanta Dan
12-17-2012, 10:50 AM
Trust me, there probably has and could be a ton of threads on the gun-toting Harrison. How's that magazine cover looking after this previous Friday's events? The point is for me at least, is that I can love them in the moment and because of their play, as players - doesn't mean I have to like them as a person. I've worked with plenty of people that were "great workers" but I would never, ever befriend them.

Agreed - it is great if a team I support has an apparently great person like Troy, but I frankly do not give a damn about these players off the field except insofar as how it impacts the Steelers performance on the field

That does not mean anything they do off the field is defended by me - it simply means I am not seeing these men as role models and do not pretend since they are good athletes they also must be good people

GoFor7
12-17-2012, 10:54 AM
I am not talking about that - I was staying on topic

I am talking about his off the field comments to the news media, assuming he was not giving the quotes i have provided while in the huddle - keep the family business inside the family, especially if you are supposed to be a team leader

And the Steelers need to learn to do what other teams with franchise QBs do: treat him well and not worry about "putting him in his place." You all hate hearing it, but in today's NFL the franchise QB is bigger than the rest of the team. When the owner, who has never played a down of football in his life, says the QB needs to change, lies about how the previous OC was disposed of, then goes on a media tour in which he continues to lie about it, nothing good will come of it.

It works both ways. Ben has to play well, but as a franchise QB, ownership needs to treat him well and stop trying to "put him in his place."

steelfury02
12-17-2012, 10:54 AM
Agreed - it is great if a team I support has an apparently great person like Troy, but I frankly do not give a damn about these players off the field except insofar as how it impacts the Steelers performance on the field

That does not mean anything they do off the field is defended by me - it simply means I am not seeing these men as role models and do not pretend since they are good athletes they also must be good people

This. GoFor7 - yinzer knee-jerk reaction? really? I'm not avoiding any of your comments, just responding as I think more on them.

Sure - there are plenty of people that turned it around. However - when you start exhibiting previous behavior that was coinciding with some shitty decisions - then, everything else must come into question.

GoFor7
12-17-2012, 10:57 AM
This. GoFor7 - yinzer knee-jerk reaction? really? I'm not avoiding any of your comments, just responding as I think more on them.

Sure - there are plenty of people that turned it around. However - when you start exhibiting previous behavior that was coinciding with some shitty decisions - then, everything else must come into question.

So Ben calling out Haley relates to his previous off the field issues how.....?

Yes, you are making knee-jerk reactions.

steelfury02
12-17-2012, 11:01 AM
And the Steelers need to learn to do what other teams with franchise QBs do: treat him well and not worry about "putting him in his place." You all hate hearing it, but in today's NFL the franchise QB is bigger than the rest of the team. When the owner, who has never played a down of football in his life, says the QB needs to change, lies about how the previous OC was disposed of, then goes on a media tour in which he continues to lie about it, nothing good will come of it.

It works both ways. Ben has to play well, but as a franchise QB, ownership needs to treat him well and stop trying to "put him in his place."

GoFor7, all good points, I absolutely disagreed with the way the Arians situation was handled by Rooney and how it conflicted with what Tomlin said. However, how did Ben help the situation? He is equally responsible for the OC issue flaming up again, months later, when it didn't have to be forced out again by what he said. Ben IMO needed to be put in his place. You can't get any closer to death or prison than he has and still just get to do what you want - and especially at that level. What has Ben done lately to earn the "I'm bigger than the franchise?" If he truly earned it, it would have meant he has done and said all the right things, and helped turn this ship around since the 09 season - he hasn't. He's contributed to more issues than solutions IMO.

steelfury02
12-17-2012, 11:08 AM
So Ben calling out Haley relates to his previous off the field issues how.....?

Yes, you are making knee-jerk reactions.

Well, you're making a knee-jerk reaction to my knee jerk reaction? Does that make the conversation more fruitful or insightful?

What does calling Haley out do exactly? What does it do to better the team? What was the purpose?

I'll just leave it at this: If you're the "Bigger than the Franchise QB" and you've earned the right to call the shots - you don't call out the OC, you don't call out the ownership, and you don't' call out the fans - which has been indicated in Atlanta Dan's quotes. You especially don't act this way after the hand that feeds you decides to let you stay after jeopardizing its fortunes, not once, but twice. You don't make comments about fans getting what you want after they gladly accept you back because you're a winner, even though you've been accused of sexual abuse, TWICE. The guy calling out Haley is a shining example of doing what you want, saying what you want, because you feel that you can. Again, I don't know Ben - but he sure is portraying himself as one of the most hated QBs ever. When people think of QBs they hate - its the dog murder, and "the rapist" Nice rep. But ya know - he got married and had a kid. Forget everything else. Let Ben have his say and we'll continue to see the same product since 09 - almost, but not quite.

Atlanta Dan
12-17-2012, 11:13 AM
And the Steelers need to learn to do what other teams with franchise QBs do: treat him well and not worry about "putting him in his place." You all hate hearing it, but in today's NFL the franchise QB is bigger than the rest of the team. When the owner, who has never played a down of football in his life, says the QB needs to change, lies about how the previous OC was disposed of, then goes on a media tour in which he continues to lie about it, nothing good will come of it.

It works both ways. Ben has to play well, but as a franchise QB, ownership needs to treat him well and stop trying to "put him in his place."

OK - now you have opened the door - it took a possible rape prosecution for Ben to apparently get that out of his system - remember when Tomlin literally stood by his side after the first allegations and Ben reciprocated by going to Milledegeville? If that is not treating him well I do not know what is. If the Steelers would have wanted to put Ben in his place they would have traded his ass to Oakland in 2010

Instead they did what was best for the team and kept #7

Canning Arians was done for the same reason - doing what was best for the team - the offense was consistently mediocre from 2007 - 2011 and Ben was getting sacked repeatedly. The owner who has never played a down of football had a $100 million investment to protect. If Ben felt that strongly about keeping Arians he should have taken less money in return for having an opt out clause in his contract unless he had veto power over the selection of the OC.

If Ben wanted to save BA's job then he should have figured out a way to put up more points. But sometimes life is unfair - you or I may like a particular boss but if the boss does not meet his numbers over time the boss is gone.

I have no problem with Ben raising hell in the locker room or with Colbert or with AJR II about his concerns - my problem is about bitching with the media

IMO it is great that Dan Rooney is coming back to deal with both the problems on his own team and the problems the league is facing - my guess is if Ben wants to air this out with Dan Rooney he will be heard

steelfury02
12-17-2012, 11:22 AM
OK - now you have opened the door - it took a possible rape prosecution for Ben to apparently get that out of his system - remember when Tomlin literally stood by his side after the first allegations and Ben reciprocated by going to Milledegeville? If that is not treating him well I do not know what is. If the Steelers would have wanted to put Ben in his place they would have traded his ass to Oakland in 2010

Instead they did what was best for the team and kept #7

Canning Arians was done for the same reason - doing what was best for the team - the offense was consistently mediocre from 2007 - 2011 and Ben was getting sacked repeatedly. The owner who has never played a down of football had a $100 million investment to protect. If Ben felt that strongly about keeping Arians he should have taken less money in return for having an opt out clause in his contract unless he had veto power over the selection of the OC.

If Ben wanted to save BA's job then he should have figured out a way to put up more points. But sometimes life is unfair - you or I may like a particular boss but if the boss does not meet his numbers over time the boss is gone.

I have no problem with Ben raising hell in the locker room or with Colbert or with AJR II about his concerns - my problem is about bitching with the media

IMO it is great that Dan Rooney is coming back to deal with both the problems on his own team and the problems the league is facing - my guess is if Ben wants to air this out with Dan Rooney he will be heard

GoFor7 - I don't mean to pour it on - we obviously disagree with the correlation of Ben's comments and his past deeds - which is perfectly ok :chuckle:

You made some fantastic points about how Rooney handled it. Not good at all. Actually - if Rooney and Ben just came out and said we don't agree on this, but winning is more important - that would have been a whole lot better. I think we can agree - this has been one of the most frustrating seasons over the past decade. From the top down this season, sure doesn't seem like our Steelers, does it?

Atlanta Dan - you beat me to it! The Ambassador is coming back, and I think that will sooth some things.

lardlad
12-17-2012, 12:23 PM
All other players aside. This thread is about what Ben said and some people are questioning his leadership skills. I agree I don't think he is a great leader, at least I don't see it if he is.

How good Ben is, how mean Harrison is and how many guns he owns, and how many WR dropped Bens passes and turned them over. How Ben handled this loss is not the sign of a strong leader. You can say all the great things you want about Ben, and you'll likely be right. You can say all the nasty things about other players on the team and you'll likely be right. In this case, after this game what he said, it was a dickish move and you have to worry about the teams 'health' right now.

tucker6
12-17-2012, 12:59 PM
Odd that Mendenhall gets more love from some on here than Ben, even though Mendy hasn't done squat for us in years.

I also believe Indy with BA is doing very well on offense with a rookie. Could it be that the ten others on offense matter and that game plans should be made based on the strengths of the individuals that will be playing?

For those who have no problems speaking poorly about Ben, you'll get your chance for a choirboy QB at some point. Then we'll see you post about the good old days of BB. I personally have no problem in Ben calling out Haley. The offensive game plan DOES suck and does not play to our strengths.

Anyone ever think that the problem may be Tomlin? It's apparent that BB doesn't feel like he's getting enough of a sounding board from Mike Tomlin, thus the frustration coming out to the media.

Atlanta Dan
12-17-2012, 01:27 PM
I also believe Indy with BA is doing very well on offense with a rookie. Could it be that the ten others on offense matter and that game plans should be made based on the strengths of the individuals that will be playing?

WTF?

Hines Ward said several weeks ago the problem under Arians was that only one player mattered

Hines Ward may have hit on the nose the reason why Art Rooney wanted Bruce Arians out as offensive coordinator:
Said Ward on his NBC-TV gig Sunday: “Sometimes when you get so close, partiality sets in and you don’t know if Bruce Arians is doing what’s best for the Steelers or if he’s doing what’s best for Ben Roethlisberger. I think that set in and they had to part ways because when you go out there and you can’t decide what’s best for the team and you’re doing what’s best for the players. That can be a problem.”

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/118613-ed-hines-ward-explains-arians-firing

steelfury02
12-17-2012, 01:30 PM
WTF?

Hines Ward said several weeks ago the problem under Arians was that only one player mattered

Hines Ward may have hit on the nose the reason why Art Rooney wanted Bruce Arians out as offensive coordinator:
Said Ward on his NBC-TV gig Sunday: “Sometimes when you get so close, partiality sets in and you don’t know if Bruce Arians is doing what’s best for the Steelers or if he’s doing what’s best for Ben Roethlisberger. I think that set in and they had to part ways because when you go out there and you can’t decide what’s best for the team and you’re doing what’s best for the players. That can be a problem.”

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/118613-ed-hines-ward-explains-arians-firing

Ben wants another buddy in there, aka - he doesn't really want an OC telling him what to do. He is portraying this at least with the dick comments

tucker6
12-17-2012, 01:40 PM
WTF?

Hines Ward said several weeks ago the problem under Arians was that only one player mattered

Hines Ward may have hit on the nose the reason why Art Rooney wanted Bruce Arians out as offensive coordinator:
Said Ward on his NBC-TV gig Sunday: “Sometimes when you get so close, partiality sets in and you don’t know if Bruce Arians is doing what’s best for the Steelers or if he’s doing what’s best for Ben Roethlisberger. I think that set in and they had to part ways because when you go out there and you can’t decide what’s best for the team and you’re doing what’s best for the players. That can be a problem.”

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/118613-ed-hines-ward-explains-arians-firing

Yeah, and how's that working out for us? Seemed to work well for three SB runs. Seems to work well in Indy. Works well in NE, Den, NYG, GB, NO, etc that the franchise QB matters first and foremost. To me, the Steelers are pissing into the wind on this one and it will backfire, if it hasn't already done so. I see the TEAM unraveling before my eyes.

Atlanta Dan
12-17-2012, 01:52 PM
Yeah, and how's that working out for us? Seemed to work well for three SB runs. Seems to work well in Indy. Works well in NE, Den, NYG, GB, NO, etc that the franchise QB matters first and foremost. To me, the Steelers are pissing into the wind on this one and it will backfire, if it hasn't already done so. I see the TEAM unraveling before my eyes.

Indy has played a last place bottom feeder schedule (like Cincy played in 2009) - look at who they have beaten and who has schooled them (Houston and New England) before you proclaim Arians a miracle worker

The Steelers did not fire the second coming of Bill Walsh and replace him with Haley - the offense had underperformed for years and in the proces was runnning an offensive scheme that was taking yeras off the productive life of the franchise QB - although maybe he likes to get hurt based upon that insane bootleg he ran for a 2 yard gain in the first half yesterday. :noidea: I would love to know if Haley called that play

As stated previously, if Ben wanted to save BA he should have put up points under that system comparable to those put up by the teams to which you contend the BA regime was comparable

tucker6
12-17-2012, 02:01 PM
Indy has played a last place bottom feeder schedule (like Cincy played in 2009) - look at who they have beaten and who has schooled them (Houston and New England) before you proclaim Arians a miracle worker

The Steelers did not fire the second coming of Bill Walsh and replace him with Haley - the offense had underperformed for years and in the proces was runnning an offensive scheme that was taking yeras off the productive life of the franchise QB - although maybe he likes to get hurt based upon that insane bootleg he ran for a 2 yard gain in the first half yesterday. :noidea: I would love to know if Haley called that play

As stated previously, if Ben wanted to save BA he should have put up points under that system comparable to those put up by the teams to which you contend the BA regime was comparable

I hear ya. To me, the problem is still the OL and the lack of a healthy, productive line. Until we fix that, the OC and QB won't get us very far. Can we at least agree that using Miller more in the 2nd half of games is a better idea than not?

Atlanta Dan
12-17-2012, 02:06 PM
I hear ya. To me, the problem is still the OL and the lack of a healthy, productive line. Until we fix that, the OC and QB won't get us very far. Can we at least agree that using Miller more in the 2nd half of games is a better idea than not?

Absolutely agree on Miller - IMO Heath has had an All-Pro year and is the team MVP

By bitching at Ben for calling out Haley i am not saying Haley called a brilliant game - I am just saying keep it behind closed doors

:drink:

Steel_Bus_24
12-17-2012, 03:56 PM
Regardless or not Ben feels he's getting a sh*** deal......If your going to be the leader of a winning/successful team....you have to be the bigger man and keep it out of the media

As others of said.....If Arians was so great and smart....why the hell did it always seem like it was their man code to only win games by kicking Field Goals.......They should have found a way to put up more TDs in the Redzone if they wanted to continue their grab ass together


Bottom line though someone in that locker Room/organization needs to be a leader an rally this team, because right now the Steelers are watching more then just this season being flushed down the toilet.

^^Something along the lines of
05rcGVRJius

That line about the the name of the team meaning a hell of lot more then the one on the back of their jerseys speaks volumes

desertsteel
12-17-2012, 03:56 PM
After reading this thread, it's definitely time to bench Ben and start Batch.

defence
12-17-2012, 04:00 PM
After reading this thread, it's definitely time to bench Ben and start Batch.

Please. :blah:

torpedoshell31
12-17-2012, 07:43 PM
Josh Miller on The Fan pointed out tonight that Ben's play wasn't the same after getting hit in the head on the roughing the passer call. He got up woozy and then was sacked on the next 2 plays. The next time we got the ball was in OT, and we saw what happened then.

Atlanta Dan
12-17-2012, 07:56 PM
Josh Miller on The Fan pointed out tonight that Ben's play wasn't the same after getting hit in the head on the roughing the passer call..

Actually punched in the back of the head - that is going to cost Ware around $25K

Maybe Ben can claim he was still dazed when he backed the bus over Haley in the post-game comments

fansince'76
12-17-2012, 08:07 PM
Regardless or not Ben feels he's getting a sh*** deal......If your going to be the leader of a winning/successful team....you have to be the bigger man and keep it out of the media

Cool story. Tell Aaron Rodgers (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/17/aaron-rodgers-punt-return-trick-play-not-a-very-intelligent-call/) that. Or is it OK when he says it?

Steel_Bus_24
12-17-2012, 08:11 PM
Cool story. Tell Aaron Rodgers (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/17/aaron-rodgers-punt-return-trick-play-not-a-very-intelligent-call/) that. Or is it OK when he says it?

I think Ben's stuff this week was a level higher then that

fansince'76
12-17-2012, 08:14 PM
Maybe Ben can claim he was still dazed when he backed the bus over Haley in the post-game comments

The same comments where he owned his play and accepted blame for the loss?

Ben Roethlisberger stood equally tall in manning up for his overtime interception, one that not only sealed defeat but also — maybe most crushingly — conjured up nightmares of Neil O‘Donnell and Larry Brown.

“This is on me, 100 percent,” Roethlisberger said. “I let my team down, the fans, everybody.”

fansince'76
12-17-2012, 08:16 PM
I think Ben's stuff this week was a level higher then that

I added a hyperlink to Aaron Rodgers' name in my post.

zcoop
12-17-2012, 08:38 PM
I was pissed with Ben for the int but he's manned up, so I'll move forward. I also am with him about this dink and dunk BS of Haley's. That chit's got to go.

Atlanta Dan
12-17-2012, 08:50 PM
The same comments where he owned his play and accepted blame for the loss?

Yeah - the same comments - walk me through what part of these comments are accepting responsibility for the loss

Good for Roethlisberger for being bluntly candid when I asked if Dallas‘ defense had done something to take away Miller after halftime.

“No,” he replied without hesitation, “I just don‘t think we called the right plays to get him the ball.”...

Roethlisberger was asked about the no-huddle, which the Steelers used Sunday when they looked most fluid — kind of like always — and he said, after a lengthy hesitation: “I don‘t … that‘s tough for me to answer right now. In the second half, we really didn‘t do much of it. And, um, that‘s disappointing.”,,,

But wait. Even in describing his shining moment, the eternal scramble that led to Miller‘s touchdown, this was his Roethlisberger‘s recap: “The play got called, and they went to a prevent defense, so the play that was called wasn‘t a good play. At all. So we just started making a play, I saw Heath and just tried to get it to him.”

Hat trick of whoas!

Make no mistake: What the Steelers have right here is a 100-percent legitimate, non-manufactured quarterback vs. coordinator controversy.

http://triblive.com/sports/dejankovacevic/dejancolumns/3144653-74/roethlisberger-haley-miller#axzz2FKEEWMpT

Since you are not posting from a site from which I was banned in November 2008 and could not reply to a variety of comments from you after my exile into the outer darkness there are several topics I would enjoy chatting with you about in PMs or here

jiminpa
12-17-2012, 10:06 PM
BR, classy and mature as ever. He needs to shut up and do his job. The Steelers will still be around long after BR has nothing better to do than try to impress his potential fourth wife with stories of how great he used to be. Some on this board will still be fanboys, chasing him around to all of the geezers trying to be cool clubs.

GoFor7
12-17-2012, 10:09 PM
BR, classy and mature as ever. He needs to shut up and do his job. The Steelers will still be around long after BR has nothing better to do than try to impress his potential fourth wife with stories of how great he used to be. Some on this board will still be fanboys, chasing him around to all of the geezers trying to be cool clubs.

If that's true, that still makes him more relevant then you'll ever be.

FrancoLambert
12-17-2012, 11:17 PM
Ben should just shut up.

Hawaii 5-0
12-17-2012, 11:26 PM
Ben should just shut up.

I love Ben, he's without a doubt the best QB the Steelers have had since Terry Bradshaw.

but if there is one thing I don't like that much about Ben is that he really does say some stupid shit sometimes that would be better left unsaid or kept private within the team and out of the media.

ChristianKustomz
12-18-2012, 12:10 AM
Hey Hawaii, where in the world are these post game interviews? I would love to see them but I get chopped and half cut videos on the NFL'12 app on my iPhone 4S. It's frustrating because I want to hear what the players say and I can't find anything.

Chris Fuamatu-Ma'afala
12-18-2012, 01:06 AM
We were in the no huddle in our overtime possession too, that worked out real well...

Ben deserves the blame. That INT was 100% his fault. You can throw a lazy pass like that and expect to get away with it.

ZoneBlitzer
12-18-2012, 01:56 AM
We were in the no huddle in our overtime possession too, that worked out real well...

Ben deserves the blame. That INT was 100% his fault. You can throw a lazy pass like that and expect to get away with it.

He does. Just saw an end zone angle and he had a guy wide open in the middle to move the chains where there was 3 Dallas defenders in the area. Early in the year Ben was great at taking what the D gave him. Lately he's been locking into a single route and not correctly reading the field. As good as he played in that game, he missed some really easy throws that could've kept drives alive. It's obviously not all on him but plays were there and he didn't make them.

TRH
12-18-2012, 03:04 AM
yeah - lets run more "no huddle" - yet take the snap count clock down to 2 or 3 again. Kinda defeats most the purpose doesn't it?
I hate Brady & the Pats, but watch them do it. Brady takes the snap when the count clock is at 16, 12, 9, etc. You never know when - hence keeping the defense off-balance. We can't figure that out yet?

bornaSteelersfan
12-18-2012, 05:44 AM
Josh Miller on The Fan pointed out tonight that Ben's play wasn't the same after getting hit in the head on the roughing the passer call. He got up woozy and then was sacked on the next 2 plays. The next time we got the ball was in OT, and we saw what happened then.

That is a very strong possibility. That blow to the head was extreme. The fact that Ware hit him with his arm in a huge metal brace may also have something to do with how much it affected Ben. That was a pretty hard and blatant hit. When it happened, I feared the very worst. I think that may also have been why Leftwich and Batch were standing so close by at the beginning of overtime.

Live by the "no huddle" die by the "no huddle". I expect us to die from it next week.

Atlanta Dan
12-18-2012, 07:28 AM
If that's true, that still makes him more relevant then you'll ever be.

To whom?:chuckle:

ChristianKustomz
12-18-2012, 07:44 AM
ZoneBlitzer,

He was open? Ummm obviously not if he threw an interception. Never shoul have thrown the ball that close to the Endzone.

Fire Haley
12-18-2012, 08:55 AM
lookit all the barking seals in here



Haley fucking sucks!

he still has the stink of a loser on him from KC, no wonder Ben doesn't want his worthless ass calling plays


bring back Arians!

GoFor7
12-18-2012, 11:48 AM
yeah - lets run more "no huddle" - yet take the snap count clock down to 2 or 3 again. Kinda defeats most the purpose doesn't it?
I hate Brady & the Pats, but watch them do it. Brady takes the snap when the count clock is at 16, 12, 9, etc. You never know when - hence keeping the defense off-balance. We can't figure that out yet?

Simple reasoning - the Steelers are overly concerned about time of possession. Thus, even when in no-huddle, they want to take time off the clock.

teegre
12-18-2012, 01:13 PM
yeah - lets run more "no huddle" - yet take the snap count clock down to 2 or 3 again. Kinda defeats most the purpose doesn't it? ?

Technically, it is to keep the defense from making substitutions.

I hate Brady & the Pats, but watch them do it. Brady takes the snap when the count clock is at 16, 12, 9, etc. You never know when - hence keeping the defense off-balance. We can't figure that out yet?

That bugs me during the entire game (not just during no huddle). With 10 seconds left, the defense is still guessing about when the offense is going to snap the ball. With 2 seconds left, the defense can guess more often and/or get a jump on the snap.

steelfury02
12-18-2012, 01:29 PM
Technically, it is to keep the defense from making substitutions.



That bugs me during the entire game (not just during no huddle). With 10 seconds left, the defense is still guessing about when the offense is going to snap the ball. With 2 seconds left, the defense can guess more often and/or get a jump on the snap.

They def are more capable of running a smoother one.

Wallace108
12-18-2012, 02:18 PM
Good commentary by Dave Bryan at Depot ...

Tomlin: Ben still on board with Haley (http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/12/tomlin-says-roethlisberger-still-on-board-with-haley-after-meeting-with-him-monday/)

Well, this is exactly what Tomlin is supposed to say. But my question is this ... how can Ben STILL be on board when he never was?

And I completely agree with what Dave Bryan says in the article:

I think that it is clear that there remains a disconnect between Roethlisberger and Haley and if you can't see that I would suggest removing your homer glasses.

teegre
12-18-2012, 03:01 PM
Chuck Noll & Terry Bradshaw never got along.

Do Haley & BB "have" to get along?

steelfury02
12-18-2012, 03:02 PM
Chuck Noll & Terry Bradshaw never got along.

Do Haley & BB "have" to get along?

They don't have to. And Ben doesn't have to listen to anyone and learn anything new to become even better - which is what it is going to take for him to win any more SB. The improv shit doesn't make up for his unwillingness to be a true student of the game, ala Peyton or Brady.

teegre
12-18-2012, 03:06 PM
They don't have to. And Ben doesn't have to listen to anyone and learn anything new to become even better - which is what it is going to take for him to win any more SB. The improv shit doesn't make up for his unwillingness to be a true student of the game, ala Peyton or Brady.

I hear you... but, will say this: BB did indeed listen (albeit, while frowning).

His third-down percentages prove that.

GoFor7
12-18-2012, 03:06 PM
They don't have to. And Ben doesn't have to listen to anyone and learn anything new to become even better - which is what it is going to take for him to win any more SB. The improv shit doesn't make up for his unwillingness to be a true student of the game, ala Peyton or Brady.

What has Todd Haley won that Ben hasn't? Perhaps if Ben needs to listen, they should actually get someone worth listening to.

steelfury02
12-18-2012, 03:14 PM
What has Todd Haley won that Ben hasn't? Perhaps if Ben needs to listen, they should actually get someone worth listening to.

Those other guys are with SB winners at QB - Giants, Patriots, Packers. Sorry - outside of getting those guys - I guess we'll just have to settle for an NFC Champion and Division Winning(The Chiefs by the way- I repeat, the Chiefs, with an awful QB situation) OC/HC because no one else is worthy IMO.

Maybe someone from outside the NFL? How about Alabama or Notre Dame. Those are sexy picks.

Wallace108
12-18-2012, 04:05 PM
Chuck Noll & Terry Bradshaw never got along.

Do Haley & BB "have" to get along?

Ben and Haley don't have to like each other. I don't care if they hate each other's guts. But they have to work well together. Ben can't be saying things that undermine faith in Haley's system. I know a lot of fans will still insist that Ben hasn't done this. But I think he has. And I'm a results kind of guy. Right now we're 7-7. And other than Heath Miller, every other offensive player has underachieved this season.

steelfury02
12-18-2012, 04:31 PM
Ben and Haley don't have to like each other. I don't care if they hate each other's guts. But they have to work well together. Ben can't be saying things that undermine faith in Haley's system. I know a lot of fans will still insist that Ben hasn't done this. But I think he has. And I'm a results kind of guy. Right now we're 7-7. And other than Heath Miller, every other offensive player has underachieved this season.

Turnovers are the cause for losing 4/5. I'd say RBs and WRs execution are awful right now. Ben has at least contributed to 1 out of those 4 losses (The Cowboys game)

Hawaii 5-0
12-18-2012, 11:42 PM
Big Ben sounds unhappy with Haley's calls

December, 17, 2012
By Jamison Hensley | ESPN.com

After throwing the game-changing interception in the 27-24 overtime loss in Dallas, Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger accepted responsibility for the team's fourth loss in five games. "Absolutely, 100 percent, this is on me," he said.

Well, if you listen to Roethlisberger's comments that followed, he doesn't think he's totally at fault. He hinted that some of the blame should fall on offensive coordinator Todd Haley.

Roethlisberger was asked why tight end Heath Miller didn't have one pass thrown his way in the second half after catching six passes for 85 yards and one touchdown in the first half. “I just don‘t think we called the right plays to get him the ball," Roethlisberger said.

He then received a question about the lack of the no-huddle. After pausing for a few seconds, Roethlisberger said, "That‘s tough for me to answer right now. In the second half, we really didn‘t do much of it and that‘s disappointing.”

The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review's Dejan Kovacevic called this "a 100-percent legitimate, non-manufactured quarterback vs. coordinator controversy."

I wouldn't go that far. I wouldn't call this a controversy or a feud yet. These comments are candid but not overly critical. He questions the play calling but doesn't really call out Haley. Roethlisberger clearly sounds unhappy, and it's true he never made the same type of remarks about his friend Bruce Arians. (Side note: Arians has the Colts sitting two games ahead of Pittsburgh and the Indianapolis offense ranked in the top 10.) But Roethlisberger should be unhappy. The Steelers are 7-7 and out of the playoffs if the regular season ended today.

Now, you might be wondering why Roethlisberger is questioning the play calling after he threw for 339 yards and two touchdowns. That's because Roethlisberger looked like the old Roethlisberger in Dallas. He was escaping pressure and spinning away from rushers before chucking the ball deep downfield. That's what happened when he hit Miller for a 30-yard touchdown at the end of the first half.

What Roethlisberger and the Steelers really need to ask themselves is whether they can get back on track. Despite all of the struggles lately, Pittsburgh can still make the playoffs by winning its final two games -- home games against the Bengals and Browns. This won't happen if the disconnect between Roethlisberger and Haley becomes a bigger issue.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/61483/big-ben-sounds-unhappy-with-haleys-calls

Wallace108
12-19-2012, 12:14 AM
Turnovers are the cause for losing 4/5. I'd say RBs and WRs execution are awful right now. Ben has at least contributed to 1 out of those 4 losses (The Cowboys game)
You're right ... execution by our RBs and WRs has been awful. And talent isn't the issue. They all didn't just start sucking. One of my concerns during training camp was that Ben's attitude could negatively affect the younger players. I'm not suggesting that's definitely what happened, but other than Miller, everyone on offense has underachieved this season, and at times, our offense has been a hot mess. There has to be a reason for it.

Wallace108
12-19-2012, 01:32 AM
Tomlin: Roethlisberger's words just frustration

By Gerry Dulac / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Coach Mike Tomlin dismissed Ben Roethlisberger's post-game comments about Todd Haley's play-calling and game plan as frustration, but said he met with the Steelers quarterback anyway to make sure "he's on board with what it is we're doing."

Tomlin said he routinely meets with Roethlisberger on the Monday following a game, but this time the philosophy and execution of Haley's offense was a point of discussion.

"That was a tough, hard-fought football game, an emotional one, and. when you come up short, there are frustrations associated with that," Tomlin said of the Steelers' 27-24 overtime loss in Dallas. "I'm sure if anything was read into his comments, it was just that. I met with Ben yesterday, and he's ready to move forward with this week."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/tomlin-roethlisbergers-words-just-frustration-666937/#ixzz2FTp5pMCk


Ben had two criticisms of the play calling: Not enough plays called for Heath and not enough no huddle. Here's a look at both issues from Dulac's article:

Not enough plays called for Heath:

Roethlisberger also said the Steelers did not call enough plays to get Miller the ball in the second half. Miller had six catches in the first half, but only one after halftime.

The reality is, the Steelers called nine plays designed for Miller in the second half, but the Cowboys' coverage forced Roethlisberger away from throwing to Miller.

"Maybe in some instances, he was covered," Tomlin said. "Maybe in other instances, Ben chose another option. Maybe sometimes other options were dictated by coverage.

"For us, it's just about finding the necessary combination of plays to win. That needs to be our focus and, had we done that, it might not be a topic of discussion. That's where we're going to focus our energies."

Then he added, "The guy caught seven passes in the game. That's pretty good."

Not enough no huddle:

Roethlisberger also complained that the Steelers did not use their no-huddle offense enough against the Cowboys. But there were reasons why they didn't.

One is that the offensive line was starting two rookies -- guard David DeCastro and tackle Kelvin Beachum. And it was DeCastro's first NFL start.

The other is that the coaches did not like the way the offense was performing or the decisions being made when they were in the no-huddle against the Cowboys.

For example, the interception Roethlisberger threw in overtime that, basically, ended the game came in the no-huddle offense.

There's no doubt Tomlin will downplay anything that Ben says, and he should. But the fact that Tomlin and Ben discussed the "philosophy and execution of Haley's offense" tells us that it's an issue and not just something being made up by the media. How can Tomlin say that Ben still buys in to Haley's system, and then turn around and have a meeting about Haley's offensive philosophy?

I think Dave Bryan at Steelers Depot said it best:

I think that it is clear that there remains a disconnect between Roethlisberger and Haley and if you can't see that I would suggest removing your homer glasses.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/12/tomlin-says-roethlisberger-still-on-board-with-haley-after-meeting-with-him-monday/

IowaSteeler927
12-19-2012, 04:16 AM
I agree with Ben. Yes he made the poor decision but this team isn't playing well in all facets of the game. The O-Line could have been better, our running game was again a non-factor, the defense was terrible in pass coverage, etc... That really was Ben's worst decision of the game and it sucks it came in overtime and I'm as pissed at him for it as everyone else but we need to win games in regulation. We need to put bad teams away early instead of letting them linger around.

Poor decisions, a lack of overall focus, and injuries are killing this team right now. I mean for crying out loud we had Josh Victorian and Robert Golden playing in our secondary. Romo picked on Victorian all game and he got burned a LOT. Ultimately if we had a healthy Ike on the field we would've been much better in pass coverage. The Cowboys running game was effective in spurts but not enough to be dominant and it didn't need to be because our secondary was atrocious.

Ben I believe is referring to the usage of the no-huddle in the the entirety of the game. Haley seems fixated on establishing a run game with our stable of back up quality running backs that are running behind a makeshift offensive line. For weeks Haley has tried to force the run when it's plainly obvious it isn't working. He's tried to implement his time of possession offense at the start of every game and it's been killing us. We keep getting stuck playing from behind in the second quarter on into the second half and it's ridiculous. Too much pressure is being placed on a defense that is ravished with injuries and guys playing hurt. They are on the field more than the offense is it seems most of the time. Ultimately we've been able to score when Ben is calling the plays and running the no huddle, we haven't been able to score when we're running the boring, predictable, time of possession offense that Haley seems so enamored with.

Atlanta Dan
12-19-2012, 12:55 PM
Ed.B. of the P-G links to some interesting comments by Jerome Bettis on Cincy sports talk radio regarding the love/hate triangle of Ben, Arians & Haley

"Would you say the decision to not bring back Bruce Arians and hire Todd Haley was a mistake?"
Bettis: "I think it was a mistake, but it was a long time coming. When your star QB and offensive coordinator were really close and ownership felt that (Ben) wasn't getting enough discipline. It wasn't a one-year thing. Since Ben wasn't getting the discipline, they also felt that (Arians) was giving in to what Ben wanted to do as opposed to the philosophy of the Steelers, which has always been running the football first. When he (Arians) got away from running the football it created a problem in the mindset of the offense and became public enemy number one. I think the Steelers needed to see what kind of team did they have? Not a team that can run the ball 40 times and win. Now with (Todd) Haley, they don't have the personnel to do that and they're not winning".

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/119263-ed-a-football-life-features-immaculate-reception-tonight

steelfury02
12-19-2012, 01:07 PM
Ed.B. of the P-G links to some interesting comments by Jerome Bettis on Cincy sports talk radio regarding the love/hate triangle of Ben, Arians & Haley

"Would you say the decision to not bring back Bruce Arians and hire Todd Haley was a mistake?"
Bettis: "I think it was a mistake, but it was a long time coming. When your star QB and offensive coordinator were really close and ownership felt that (Ben) wasn't getting enough discipline. It wasn't a one-year thing. Since Ben wasn't getting the discipline, they also felt that (Arians) was giving in to what Ben wanted to do as opposed to the philosophy of the Steelers, which has always been running the football first. When he (Arians) got away from running the football it created a problem in the mindset of the offense and became public enemy number one. I think the Steelers needed to see what kind of team did they have? Not a team that can run the ball 40 times and win. Now with (Todd) Haley, they don't have the personnel to do that and they're not winning".

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/119263-ed-a-football-life-features-immaculate-reception-tonight

from a HOFer who knows the organization, some coaches, staff, and Ben, very well - one of the best quotes regarding the sitch I've read. That about sums it up.

Waiting on the Arians apologists to come to his defense, in spite of everything that has come out. You can't expect that what one OC/QB relationship wants should take front seat over the ownership, who ultimately made the decision based on experiences through bad times and decades of winning long before Bruce and Ben were around. Something tells me that at some point, they'll even win a SB without Ben Roethlisberger. This, I repeat, is not the Pittsburgh Roethlisbergers. There will always be fans even when they go through their next "down-years"

GoFor7
12-19-2012, 02:10 PM
from a HOFer who knows the organization, some coaches, staff, and Ben, very well - one of the best quotes regarding the sitch I've read. That about sums it up.

Waiting on the Arians apologists to come to his defense, in spite of everything that has come out. You can't expect that what one OC/QB relationship wants should take front seat over the ownership, who ultimately made the decision based on experiences through bad times and decades of winning long before Bruce and Ben were around. Something tells me that at some point, they'll even win a SB without Ben Roethlisberger. This, I repeat, is not the Pittsburgh Roethlisbergers. There will always be fans even when they go through their next "down-years"

Art Rooney has experience of decades of winning? Well I guess if we're talking about Art Rooney Sr, then yes. Like it or not, right now Ben is more important to the team than Artie. No one buys tickets or watches games because of who the owner is.

Can the Steelers win a super bowl without Ben? Sure. They've done it before - when they had another franchise QB. As for when the Steelers don't have a franchise QB..... see 80's and 90's. So down the road if they acquire another franchise QB, they'll have a shot.

The Steelers have a bunch of problems, Ben isn't one of them just because he threw a pick in OT.

GoFor7
12-19-2012, 02:22 PM
You're missing the point of Bettis' comments...


Ed.B. of the P-G links to some interesting comments by Jerome Bettis on Cincy sports talk radio regarding the love/hate triangle of Ben, Arians & Haley

"Would you say the decision to not bring back Bruce Arians and hire Todd Haley was a mistake?"
Bettis: "I think it was a mistake, but it was a long time coming. When your star QB and offensive coordinator were really close and ownership felt that (Ben) wasn't getting enough discipline. It wasn't a one-year thing. Since Ben wasn't getting the discipline, they also felt that (Arians) was giving in to what Ben wanted to do as opposed to the philosophy of the Steelers, which has always been running the football first. When he (Arians) got away from running the football it created a problem in the mindset of the offense and became public enemy number one. I think the Steelers needed to see what kind of team did they have? Not a team that can run the ball 40 times and win. Now with (Todd) Haley, they don't have the personnel to do that and they're not winning".

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/119263-ed-a-football-life-features-immaculate-reception-tonight

Bettis isn't saying the Steelers are right to go back to a run-first philosophy - he's in fact saying they are no longer equipped to do that. This isn't about Ben being "undisciplined" or needing "put in his place," this is about an owner that's enamored with an outdated style of football. The NFL is no longer about TOP on offense or stats on defense, it's about scoring points on offense and making splash plays on defense.

Besides, who are the Steelers going to get rid of - the OC who's never won anything, or a two-time super bowl winning QB?

Atlanta Dan
12-19-2012, 02:42 PM
You're missing the point of Bettis' comments...

This isn't about Ben being "undisciplined" or needing "put in his place," this is about an owner that's enamored with an outdated style of football.

This statement by Bettis as to why Arians was shown the door had nothing to do with discipline?:noidea:

When your star QB and offensive coordinator were really close and ownership felt that (Ben) wasn't getting enough discipline. It wasn't a one-year thing. Since Ben wasn't getting the discipline, they also felt that (Arians) was giving in to what Ben wanted to do

And my guess is Bettis and Ward, two of the leaders of the 2005 champs, probably keep in touch given these commnets by Ward several weeks ago

"Well, sometimes I think when you get so close, partiality sets it, and you don't know if Bruce Arians is doing what's best for the Steelers or if he's doing what's best for Ben Roethlisberger. And I think that set in. And they had to part ways, because when you go out there and you can't decide what's best for the team, and you're doing what's best for the player, sometimes it can be a problem."

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/343114-hines-ward-on-friendship-of-arians-and-roethlisberger

This was all about Arians and Ben being too close, with Arians being the NFL equivalent of the little legue coach who always lets his son swing for the fences every time regardless of how it impacts the rest of the team

GoFor7
12-19-2012, 02:55 PM
This statement by Bettis as to why Arians was shown the door had nothing to do with discipline?:noidea:

When your star QB and offensive coordinator were really close and ownership felt that (Ben) wasn't getting enough discipline. It wasn't a one-year thing. Since Ben wasn't getting the discipline, they also felt that (Arians) was giving in to what Ben wanted to do

And my guess is Bettis and Ward, two of the leaders of the 2005 champs, probably keep in touch given these commnets by Ward several weeks ago

"Well, sometimes I think when you get so close, partiality sets it, and you don't know if Bruce Arians is doing what's best for the Steelers or if he's doing what's best for Ben Roethlisberger. And I think that set in. And they had to part ways, because when you go out there and you can't decide what's best for the team, and you're doing what's best for the player, sometimes it can be a problem."

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/343114-hines-ward-on-friendship-of-arians-and-roethlisberger

This was all about Arians and Ben being too close, with Arians being the NFL equivalent of the little legue coach who always lets his son swing for the fences every time regardless of how it impacts the rest of the team

So some of us are just ignoring the last part of Bettis' quote?

I think the Steelers needed to see what kind of team did they have? Not a team that can run the ball 40 times and win. Now with (Todd) Haley, they don't have the personnel to do that and they're not winning.

No, this is more about an owner that thinks he's right and the rest of the NFL is wrong, when it couldn't be anymore obvious (7-7) that he is wrong.

steelfury02
12-19-2012, 03:00 PM
You're missing the point of Bettis' comments...




Bettis isn't saying the Steelers are right to go back to a run-first philosophy - he's in fact saying they are no longer equipped to do that. This isn't about Ben being "undisciplined" or needing "put in his place," this is about an owner that's enamored with an outdated style of football. The NFL is no longer about TOP on offense or stats on defense, it's about scoring points on offense and making splash plays on defense.

Besides, who are the Steelers going to get rid of - the OC who's never won anything, or a two-time super bowl winning QB?

The whole point is that eventually, your 2x winning Super Bowl QB has to do something different than what he has been doing to keep it going - evolve. It is time for him to evolve in his line of thinking, just as much as it is the ownership's time to embrace a change in the style. Since February 2009, heading into 4 seasons now, what exactly has made Ben better? Nothing, and he's getting beat up in the process. Think it might be time to do something different to score more points rather than just listen to the franchise QB - who, while defenders of this QB over the franchise mindset think Ben knows best, fail to realize, that when given the opportunity to sling it around like he wants to - it hasn't worked out for the better. You can pin point to as many long 3rd down conversions or long bombs to Wallace as you want - it doesn't change the fact that regardless of who came next after Arians, It, not only in the philosophy, but also in the relationship in favor of the rest of the team, HAD TO GO. Ben was called out by Hines, by Bettis, and the same things were said by Starks and Batch. Ben wasn't all that great of a teammate. They all said he has gotten better at it - but, what do you think the younger teammates are going to do when the franchise QB is bitching? Eli isn't bitching, and he might surpass Ben in SB victories. Manning is adjusting to something different, and magically - looks a helluva lot better than Ben. Brady has to evolve every single season - better QB. Ben needs to get with the idea of being flexible.

You can argue me until you're blue in the face - Haley is here, and someone else other than Bruce might be here after this season, or after the next 4. Ben wants an OC who will let him do what he wants. What Ben wants doesn't mean it will equal more success on offense. You need to give something different a chance, cause the old-hat shit is gone. Where are the articles and videos of Ben spending time with his receivers? He'll call out the OC, but not the assholes that drop the ball, LITERALLY. Maybe I'm wrong, but Ben's best days, at least in Pittsburgh, might be behind him at the rate his attitude and game are regressing, when he gets his way.

GoFor7
12-19-2012, 03:01 PM
The whole point is that eventually, your 2x winning Super Bowl QB has to do something different than what he has been doing to keep it going - evolve. It is time for him to evolve in his line of thinking, just as much as it is the ownership's time to embrace a change in the style. Since February 2009, heading into 4 seasons now, what exactly has made Ben better? Nothing, and he's getting beat up in the process. Think it might be time to do something different to score more points rather than just listen to the franchise QB - who, while defenders of this QB over the franchise mindset think Ben knows best, fail to realize, that when given the opportunity to sling it around like he wants to - it hasn't worked out for the better. You can pin point to as many long 3rd down conversions or long bombs to Wallace as you want - it doesn't change the fact that regardless of who came next after Arians, It, not only in the philosophy, but also in the relationship in favor of the rest of the team, HAD TO GO. Ben was called out by Hines, by Bettis, and the same things were said by Starks and Batch. Ben wasn't all that great of a teammate. They all said he has gotten better at it - but, what do you think the younger teammates are going to do when the franchise QB is bitching?

You can argue me until you're blue in the face - Haley is here, and someone else other than Bruce might be here after this season, or after the next 4. Ben wants an OC who will let him do what he wants. What Ben wants doesn't mean it will equal more success on offense. You need to give something different a chance, cause the old-hat shit is gone.

Love how the last part of Bettis' quote gets ignored. Is it because that maybe it hints the Steelers' might be wrong on their offensive philosophy? Oh, and they aren't scoring more points....

GoFor7
12-19-2012, 03:15 PM
. Manning is adjusting to something different, and magically - looks a helluva lot better than Ben. Brady has to evolve every single season - better QB. Ben needs to get with the idea of being flexible.

But see, those teams don't have owners enamored with an outdated style of football. Those teams aren't forcing a playbook down their QB's throat. You think Manning and Brady have no input in those playbooks? Art Rooney needs to get with the idea that "putting the QB in his place" and dumbing him down isn't an recipe for a successful franchise.

The OC doesn't have to worship Ben, but if he's not working to Ben's strengths then it won't work out. 7-7 doesn't lie. Perhaps the Steelers' philosophy needs to change to match the philosophy of today's NFL. Otherwise, they're just pounding square pegs into round holes.

steelfury02
12-19-2012, 03:36 PM
But see, those teams don't have owners enamored with an outdated style of football. Those teams aren't forcing a playbook down their QB's throat. You think Manning and Brady have no input in those playbooks? Art Rooney needs to get with the idea that "putting the QB in his place" and dumbing him down isn't an recipe for a successful franchise.

The OC doesn't have to worship Ben, but if he's not working to Ben's strengths then it won't work out. 7-7 doesn't lie. Perhaps the Steelers' philosophy needs to change to match the philosophy of today's NFL. Otherwise, they're just pounding square pegs into round holes.

Today's offensive philosophy? Release the ball quickly.
Ben's philosophy: Hold onto the ball and wait until the last second.

San Fran, is #2 in rushing I believe, Houston #5, New England #8 in rushing. I think running the football, at least when you need short yardage - is extremely relevant, even to today's. Bradshaw of the Giants I believe was averaging 96.5 yards/game in last year's playoff run - that might be total yards, but nonethless - the RB is pretty important. This is still different from 3 yards and a cloud of dust. You still need a top 10 running game so teams respect it, which opens things up. If Ben wants empty backfield and slinging it on 3rd and short, when everyone knows there is no run game to worry about - that's cool.

EDIT: I realize those offensive lines are fantastically better than ours - hence, the better run game. Injuries do play a factor - it isn't an excuse.
EDIT 2: I don't think Ben wants the same thing as Brady with his input. Brady is dink and dunk. Manning might be a little closer to what Ben wants IMO.

GoFor7
12-19-2012, 03:53 PM
Today's offensive philosophy? Release the ball quickly.
Ben's philosophy: Hold onto the ball and wait until the last second.

San Fran, is #2 in rushing I believe, Houston #5, New England #8 in rushing. I think running the football, at least when you need short yardage - is extremely relevant, even to today's. Bradshaw of the Giants I believe was averaging 96.5 yards/game in last year's playoff run - that might be total yards, but nonethless - the RB is pretty important. This is still different from 3 yards and a cloud of dust. You still need a top 10 running game so teams respect it, which opens things up. If Ben wants empty backfield and slinging it on 3rd and short, when everyone knows there is no run game to worry about - that's cool.

EDIT: I realize those offensive lines are fantastically better than ours - hence, the better run game. Injuries do play a factor - it isn't an excuse.
EDIT 2: I don't think Ben wants the same thing as Brady with his input. Brady is dink and dunk. Manning might be a little closer to what Ben wants IMO.

The difference between Pittsburgh and New England, Houston, and Denver is they aren't dumbing down their QBs, nor are they obsessed with TOP. They actually take shots down field. They aren't afraid of scoring quickly because their defenses may or may not be too tired. Those teams takes some chances, and don't minimize their strengths because they're afraid of their weaknessess. The Steelers play small ball. They try to grind it out for the first three quarters, worrying about their weaknesses while minimizing their strengths (such as reducing Ben to bubble screens and dink-and-dunk all the time). When that doesn't work, they hope Ben bails them out in the fourth quarter. When he doesn't - BOOOOOOO HE STINKS!

The difference between the Steelers and those other teams: they let their QBs try to win the game early on so there's less of a probability that they'll be in a circumstance where the QB has to pull something out of his ass in the fourth.

As for Jerome, while he thinks Arians was too close to Ben, he also acknowledges this offense isn't working in Pittsburgh. When an old-school, ground and pound guy like that admits the Steelers can't win that way anymore, that should get the attention of Artie.

steelfury02
12-19-2012, 04:16 PM
The difference between Pittsburgh and New England, Houston, and Denver is they aren't dumbing down their QBs, nor are they obsessed with TOP. They actually take shots down field. They aren't afraid of scoring quickly because their defenses may or may not be too tired. Those teams takes some chances, and don't minimize their strengths because they're afraid of their weaknessess. The Steelers play small ball. They try to grind it out for the first three quarters, worrying about their weaknesses while minimizing their strengths (such as reducing Ben to bubble screens and dink-and-dunk all the time). When that doesn't work, they hope Ben bails them out in the fourth quarter. When he doesn't - BOOOOOOO HE STINKS!

The difference between the Steelers and those other teams: they let their QBs try to win the game early on so there's less of a probability that they'll be in a circumstance where the QB has to pull something out of his ass in the fourth.

As for Jerome, while he thinks Arians was too close to Ben, he also acknowledges this offense isn't working in Pittsburgh. When an old-school, ground and pound guy like that admits the Steelers can't win that way anymore, that should get the attention of Artie.

Good point on Bettis - I agree - they can't win that way anymore - and I agreed with putting more on Ben, he had a career year in 07, won the SB again with a lot more guts than most I've watched - but, since - things don't look as great. All I'm saying is to give it a chance. A lot were on here saying that Haley might have had more aggressive play calls saved up for deeper in the season. It simply hasn't had time to develop. No one would argue that Haley didn't want Kurt and his 3, 1000 yard receivers to stay aggressive. The system needs time to develop.

steelfury02
12-19-2012, 04:23 PM
Good job not letting it fester Ben:thumbsup:

After all my bitching about Ben's attitude - I hope this means they'll band together and start fresh. 0-0 Peeps. :tt02: Maybe that 30 day vacation from Steelers Fever helped Ben realize a few things.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2012/12/19/steelers-quarterback-ben-roethlisberger-apologized-to-offensive-coordinator-todd-haley/1780033/
Ben Roethlisberger apologized to Steelers for his remarks
Jim Corbett, USA Today


PITTSBURGH -- Don't expect fireworks between Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger and offensive coordinator Todd Haley for postgame remarks Roethlisberger made following last Sunday's 27-24 overtime loss to the Dallas Cowboys.

Roethlisberger was critical of the offensive play-calling and deployment but said he made a point of apologizing to Haley on Monday morning after also telling coach Mike Tomlin and Steelers President Art Rooney II that he was sorry.

It was the second time this season Roethlisberger's remarks were interpreted as criticisms of Haley's play-calling.

"There won't be any rift,'' Roethlisberger told USA TODAY Sports before practice Wednesday. "Everything is fine. I don't even think Todd was upset with it. He said, 'I appreciate you coming. But I don't think you needed to.' We're good to go.

"That was just frustration, which normally doesn't get to me when speaking publicly. It was more frustration with myself than anything. We spoke on Monday. I wanted to make sure I was going to come in and apologize for causing an issue to Mike Tomlin, to Todd and Mr. (Art) Rooney."

Roethlisberger blamed it on his game-costing interception.

"One play," he said, "can ruin your day.''

Roethlisberger threw a sideline pass to receiver Mike Wallace, but cornerback Brandon Carr intercepted the pass and returned it 36 yards to the Pittsburgh 1-yard line to set up Dan Bailey's winning field goal.

When asked about Roethlisberger's comments, Tomlin called it "frustration'' during his Tuesday news conference. Roethlisberger had questioned whether enough plays were called for tight end Heath Miller and whether the Steelers should have run more no-huddle based on their early success with it.

"I let my frustrations jump out after the game and I don't usually do that,'' Roethlisberger told news reporters earlier. "Usually, I keep it under control. It's just frustration with myself. I'll be better at that. It comes from wanting to do anything to win a football game. I shouldn't have come out. It was my fault.''

Roethlisberger is 0-2 since returning from a sprained throwing shoulder and dislocated rib, injuries that kept him out for three games. The Steelers (7-7) host the Cincinnati Bengals (8-6) on Sunday at Heinz Field in a game critical to both teams' playoff hopes.

teegre
12-19-2012, 04:25 PM
The difference between Pittsburgh and New England, Houston, and Denver is they aren't dumbing down their QBs, nor are they obsessed with TOP. They actually take shots down field. They aren't afraid of scoring quickly because their defenses may or may not be too tired. Those teams takes some chances, and don't minimize their strengths because they're afraid of their weaknessess. The Steelers play small ball. They try to grind it out for the first three quarters, worrying about their weaknesses while minimizing their strengths (such as reducing Ben to bubble screens and dink-and-dunk all the time). When that doesn't work, they hope Ben bails them out in the fourth quarter. When he doesn't - BOOOOOOO HE STINKS!

The difference between the Steelers and those other teams: they let their QBs try to win the game early on so there's less of a probability that they'll be in a circumstance where the QB has to pull something out of his ass in the fourth.

As for Jerome, while he thinks Arians was too close to Ben, he also acknowledges this offense isn't working in Pittsburgh. When an old-school, ground and pound guy like that admits the Steelers can't win that way anymore, that should get the attention of Artie.

1. The Steelers take their fair share of shots down the field. The difference: the WRs drop those passes.

2. Dumbing down? Haley has made BB the best QB in the league on third downs. And, as anyone who knows anything about football will tell you: the key is third downs. I don't consider the best third down conversion rate being dumb... quite the opposite, actually.

4-b. Also, before his injury, BB was completing 70% of his passes... which is great... not dumb.

3. You mention bubble screens as a negative... but, then you also praise Arians. Uh... I think we can all do the math on that contradiction.

4. You keep averring that the Steelers are obsessed with time of possession... and every time I ask you to provide us with a link that shows that TOP is their main goal, you disappear. So, please, once again, where did you read this? see this? hear this?

4-a. See point number 2. I think that Haley's focus has been making BB better at checking down... which has led to more conversions on third down (lead leading, actually). Why do I say that that has been Haley's goal?.. because, that is exactly what Haley said in his initial press conference.

5. A record of 7-7... with three games where BB was injured & one more where he was completely rusty. Records don't mean as much as one would believe.

6. The Steelers do not have the personnel to run the ball 40 times per game. That can mean a lot of things. Bad O-line. No RB worthy of handling the ball 40 times. Et cetera. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are trying to "dumb down" their QB.

7. Re: "BOOO!" You are the only person that I've seen actually "Boo" anyone... and that is when you "boo" either yourself or BB. Who on here "boos" BB??? Who here "boos" you??? It is just like how you call people "Yinzers" and then whine continuously about people calling you names. Again, has anyone ACTUALLY called you a name? Because, you certainly have do so.

SUMMATION:
You make some good points... truly, you do. But, your vile hatred of certian people; your strawman arguements; and your illogical assertions about Steelers fans... well... we all start to take you less seriosuly.

You could be right... but, we will never listen to you, because of all the other garbage that is right alongside of those good points.

Drop the act.

GoFor7
12-19-2012, 04:33 PM
Good point on Bettis - I agree - they can't win that way anymore - and I agreed with putting more on Ben, he had a career year in 07, won the SB again with a lot more guts than most I've watched - but, since - things don't look as great. All I'm saying is to give it a chance. A lot were on here saying that Haley might have had more aggressive play calls saved up for deeper in the season. It simply hasn't had time to develop. No one would argue that Haley didn't want Kurt and his 3, 1000 yard receivers to stay aggressive. The system needs time to develop.

Then it's time to open things up earlier in the game. Worrying about balance and bubble screens have put the Steelers in this hole. Maybe Ben throws more INTs, maybe the receivers have the dropsies again. All I know is I'd rather see the Steelers go down with the ball in the hands of the best players rather than this slow and painful death we've seen with them playing small ball.

Atlanta Dan
12-19-2012, 04:39 PM
But see, those teams don't have owners enamored with an outdated style of football. Those teams aren't forcing a playbook down their QB's throat. You think Manning and Brady have no input in those playbooks? Art Rooney needs to get with the idea that "putting the QB in his place" and dumbing him down isn't an recipe for a successful franchise.

The OC doesn't have to worship Ben, but if he's not working to Ben's strengths then it won't work out. 7-7 doesn't lie. Perhaps the Steelers' philosophy needs to change to match the philosophy of today's NFL. Otherwise, they're just pounding square pegs into round holes.

Would you concede the offense under Arians was pedestrian in terms of production, certainly in comparison to those run by QBs you regard to be Ben's peers?

And do you think continuing to have Ben sacked 50 times year while waiting for someone to break open deep was a long term plan for success? You keep hammering AJRII for wanting a better running game, but do not appear to spend much time discussing his stated concern this past off season that Ben could not continue to take the pounding he did with Arians as the OC. AJR II knows there was a 21 year gap between Bradshaw and Ben so consider the possibility he is highly motivated to protect his franchise QB.

GoFor7
12-19-2012, 04:46 PM
Would you concede the offense under Arians was pedestrian in terms of production, certainly in comparison to those run by QBs you regard to be Ben's peers?

Yes, and I have stated many times that I thought Arians all too often crapped the bed in the red zone.

On the other hand, those organizations don't hire OCs to "put the QB in his place." Those OCs, while they may not worship their QBs, make sure said QBs are comfortable with what is going on. They make sure the QB has input. Most importantly, they make sure that QB is the focal point of the offense, and do not worry about outdated offensive philosophies to please their team's owner.

Also, if Artie didn't like the fact Arians was too close to Ben, then why didn't he fire Tomlin too? He's buddy-buddy grab-ass with all the players.

teegre
12-19-2012, 04:48 PM
Good point on Bettis - I agree - they can't win that way anymore - and I agreed with putting more on Ben, he had a career year in 07, won the SB again with a lot more guts than most I've watched - but, since - things don't look as great. All I'm saying is to give it a chance. A lot were on here saying that Haley might have had more aggressive play calls saved up for deeper in the season. It simply hasn't had time to develop. No one would argue that Haley didn't want Kurt and his 3, 1000 yard receivers to stay aggressive. The system needs time to develop.

Agreed.
Haley is great at getting the most out of the talent that he has.

In Arizona, he passed teasm to death, with those WRs & Warner. In KC, he ran over everybody.

Currently, I see that he has taken a QB who was good at improvising and/or making something out of nothing, and made that QB excellent on third downs (best in the league)... as well as being great on every other completion, too (70% completion rate, before the injury).

So, Haley has made BB into a more strategic passer. If it's not there deep, throw to Heath or Dwyer. THEN, if you think that the WR "might" get open, do your magic, by scambling around, and then find the WR for a big gain.

I do NOT think that Haley was trying to discourage BB from doing what BB does best... but, I also do not think that Haley (nor any Steelers fan) wants BB scrambling around on every single play.

Has Haley called too many running plays? Eh... maybe.

Has Haley made BB a better QB? Absolutely.

Again, BB will always be able to (and still does) avoid the pass rush & make something out of nothing, Haley has not changed that. What Haley has done is add two things to BB's repertoire:
--convert third downs (best in the league)
AND
--check down to the open outlet/hot read (i.e. take 5 yards, if they are giving you five yards... resulting in a 70% completion rate).

In other words, before his injury, BB was a legitimate MVP candidate.

Atlanta Dan
12-19-2012, 04:51 PM
Also, if Artie didn't like the fact Arians was too close to Ben, then why didn't he fire Tomlin too? He's buddy-buddy grab-ass with all the players.

Santonio Holmes and Mendenhall might dissent from that view of Tomlin.

As far as why not fire Tomlin, before this season he was HC of a team that had been to 2 Super Bowls and made the playoffs 4 out of 5 seasons

The team as a whole has not underperformed from 2007 -2011 (this year it has) = the offense has been mediocre

teegre
12-19-2012, 04:52 PM
Would you concede the offense under Arians was pedestrian in terms of production, certainly in comparison to those run by QBs you regard to be Ben's peers?

And do you think continuing to have Ben sacked 50 times year while waiting for someone to break open deep was a long term plan for success? You keep hammering AJRII for wanting a better running game, but do not appear to spend much time discussing his stated concern this past off season that Ben could not continue to take the pounding he did with Arians as the OC. AJR II knows there was a 21 year gap between Bradshaw and Ben so consider the possibility he is highly motivated to protect his franchise QB.

Exactly!!!

Art II stated that he wanted more of a running game (who doesn't???)... but, the most important thing that Art II said was that he wanted to protect his QB.

This whole "Art II wants to put BB in his place" nonesense is a contrived, strawman arguement.

defence
12-19-2012, 04:53 PM
[QUOTE=GoFor7;1066833]The difference between Pittsburgh and New England, Houston, and Denver is they aren't dumbing down their QBs, nor are they obsessed with TOP. They actually take shots down field. They aren't afraid of scoring quickly because their defenses may or may not be too tired. Those teams takes some chances, and don't minimize their strengths because they're afraid of their weaknessess. The Steelers play small ball. They try to grind it out for the first three quarters, worrying about their weaknesses while minimizing their strengths (such as reducing Ben to bubble screens and dink-and-dunk all the time). When that doesn't work, they hope Ben bails them out in the fourth quarter. When he doesn't - BOOOOOOO HE STINKS!

The difference between the Steelers and those other teams: they let their QBs try to win the game early on so there's less of a probability that they'll be in a circumstance where the QB has to pull something out of his ass in the fourth.

As for Jerome, while he thinks Arians was too close to Ben, he also acknowledges this offense isn't working in Pittsburgh. When an old-school, ground and pound guy like that admits the Steelers can't win that way anymore, that should get the attention of Artie.[/QUOT

Hey 7. I remember a post in a topic regarding Haley after the 1st game of the year. i didn't agree with you then cause I wanted to give Haley the benefit of the doubt. But after watching almost an entire season; I have to agree with everything you are saying. Haley was brought in here to change this team from a passing team back to a more balanced offence. Scratching my head since the league has become a passing league. Well we all see that this team was not built to run. There only hope at rb got benched for fumbling. Now they pin there playoff hopes on Dwyer. My god!! I don't even want to get into it regarding the line. Hopefully they will be good one day with all the high picks there. I believe in a balance attack and think when the Steelers get a rb; they will be very dangerous. But he tried all year to work his gameplan; rather than work around his weapons. Who knows the politics of what goes on behind the doors; but as you mentioned; Betis sees it. we see it. I have no answers to what should have been done or what they should do. But I do know one thing. You keep your franchise qb happy.

Hawaii 5-0
12-19-2012, 05:01 PM
Haley was brought in here to change this team from a passing team back to a more balanced offence. Scratching my head since the league has become a passing league.

the Steelers under Haley have ran the ball 353 times while passing the ball 523 times.

not enough passing for you?

defence
12-19-2012, 05:06 PM
the Steelers under Haley have ran the ball 353 times while passing the ball 523 times.

not enough passing for you?

Hey; not here to argue with you and all your stats. Whether you want to face it or not; this offence has regressed. It's called situational playcalling. My 10 year old son knows what Haley is gonna call. Most importantly; he doesn't have to appeal to to me. I'm a fan. But his qb is obviously disgruntled. he should worry about that.

teegre
12-19-2012, 05:07 PM
Haley was brought in here to change this team from a passing team back to a more balanced offence. Scratching my head since the league has become a passing league. Well we all see that this team was not built to run.

70% completion percentage. Best in the league on third downs

THAT is why Haley was brought in: to help BB become a better QB.

You keep your franchise qb happy.

Less sacks should make any QB happy. Better completion percentages should make any QB happy. Being a contendor for the MVP should make any QB happy.

Sometimes, it takes a strict teacher/coach to make a QB better... whereas a "friend" merely plays the role of sycophant. Do you think that Belichick coddles Brady?

Tough love.

defence
12-19-2012, 05:17 PM
70% completion percentage. Best in the league on third downs

THAT is why Haley was brought in: to help BB become a better QB.



Less sacks should make any QB happy. Better completion percentages should make any QB happy. Being a contendor for the MVP should make any QB happy.

Sometimes, it takes a strict teacher/coach to make a QB better... whereas a "friend" merely plays the role of sycophant. Do you think that Belichick coddles Brady?

Tough love.

Yup MVP's and stats is what these guys play every Sunday for. If the Steelers are eliminated Sunday from the post season; ask Ben if he gives a shit about his 70 percent completion percent on third downs. See it how you will. The Steeler offence right now would struggle against all the bottom feeder defences in the nfl and that is a clear reflection of our coaches.

tony hipchest
12-19-2012, 05:19 PM
EDIT: I realize those offensive lines are fantastically better than ours - hence, the better run game. Injuries do play a factor - it isn't an excuse.
.

i believe a multitude of injuries IS a valid excuse. theres only so much one team can bear. just see and injured leftwich trying to fill in for an injured ben and wing the ball down the field.. etc.

a seasons worth of thurday night games needs to be eliminated, and rosters need to be expanded.

another valid excuse/reason is fumbling away games to the raiders, browns, titans, cowboys. its hard enough to overcome all the injuries when there is a stupid boneheaded fumble in every half of every game (it seems).

teegre
12-19-2012, 05:24 PM
Yup MVP's and stats is what these guys play every Sunday for. If the Steelers are eliminated Sunday from the post season; ask Ben if he gives a shit about his 70 percent completion percent on third downs. See it how you will. The Steeler offence right now would struggle against all the bottom feeder defences in the nfl and that is a clear reflection of our coaches.

YOU brought up "keeping BB happy."

YOU said that less run plays would make BB happy.

YOU never mentioned SuperBowls... until now.

Obviously, championships is every player's main goal. (Obvious.) In fact, if BB won the SuperBowl without throwing a single pass... I am sure that he'd be pretty darn happy... right? Or... hmmm... would you still aver that he'd sulk because he did not throw enough/they ran too much?

More importantly & regardless, Haley is making BB a better QB, which increases the likelihood of BB attaining another championship... and, as we agree: another championship (or three) would absolutely make BB happy.

teegre
12-19-2012, 05:26 PM
another valid excuse/reason is fumbling away games to the raiders, browns, titans, cowboys. its hard enough to overcome all the injuries when there is a stupid boneheaded fumble in every half of every game (it seems).

THAT.

GoFor7
12-19-2012, 05:29 PM
70% completion percentage. Best in the league on third downs

THAT is why Haley was brought in: to help BB become a better QB.



Less sacks should make any QB happy. Better completion percentages should make any QB happy. Being a contendor for the MVP should make any QB happy.

Sometimes, it takes a strict teacher/coach to make a QB better... whereas a "friend" merely plays the role of sycophant. Do you think that Belichick coddles Brady?

Tough love.

Don't lean so much on statistics. The truth is the small ball play has resulted in a 7-7 team. Joe Flacco's stats are good when he checks down to Ray Rice, but does anyone actually think he's a great QB because of it?

Dink-dunk, dink-dunk, bubble-screen, bubble-screen. Oh no we're losing late in the fourth! Ben please bail us out! - What!? You threw an INT!? BOOOOOO! You're not clutch anymore! BOOOOOO!

I don't think ole' Billy coddles Brady, but he doesn't ram a new playbook down his throat either. He doesn't minimize his star QB in the name of balance or because Kraft is enamored with old school football.

I've noticed you seem to think in terms of extremes Teegre. If someone says the defense needs to force more turnovers, you take that as someone saying the defense stinks. If one OC is considered being too close to Ben, then the next OC has to be an asshole and yell at him all the time. The next OC doesn't have to worship Ben, but he needs to allow him input. He needs to make sure Ben is comfortable with everything. He needs to design a playbook based off the strengths of his personnel, not on old-school philosophies. If the next OC doesn't do this, then it won't work - no matter how badly Artie wants it to.

teegre
12-19-2012, 05:58 PM
Don't lean so much on statistics. The truth is the small ball play has resulted in a 7-7 team. Joe Flacco's stats are good when he checks down to Ray Rice, but does anyone actually think he's a great QB because of it?

Dink-dunk, dink-dunk, bubble-screen, bubble-screen. Oh no we're losing late in the fourth! Ben please bail us out! - What!? You threw an INT!? BOOOOOO! You're not clutch anymore! BOOOOOO!

I don't think ole' Billy coddles Brady, but he doesn't ram a new playbook down his throat either. He doesn't minimize his star QB in the name of balance or because Kraft is enamored with old school football.

I've noticed you seem to think in terms of extremes Teegre. If someone says the defense needs to force more turnovers, you take that as someone saying the defense stinks. If one OC is considered being too close to Ben, then the next OC has to be an asshole and yell at him all the time. The next OC doesn't have to worship Ben, but he needs to allow him input. He needs to make sure Ben is comfortable with everything. He needs to design a playbook based off the strengths of his personnel, not on old-school philosophies. If the next OC doesn't do this, then it won't work - no matter how badly Artie wants it to.

Did you read my previous post? I answered your first two points.

Nope, you must not have read it... because, more "Booos" have appeared.

Please, scroll up (or back a page) and read the numbered post. Again, it answers all of your points.

BELICHICK
Belichick changes his playbook every single year. That is why he is such a great coach.

You aver that the team is ramming something down BB's throat. Again, read my previous post.

Again, scroll back...

EXTREMES
Me... you, of all people are trying to call me extreme??? Seriously???

I consider myself pretty level-headed, and try to look at all aspects of things. BUT, when someone does one of the following, I feel obligated to provide a coutner-arguement:

a) someone repeats tha same drivel over & over without any actual proof (link or something)

b) someone hijacks thread after thread with the same unproven drivel

c) someone creastes tangents, strawmen arguments, and/or posts that derail actual discussions.

As far as the defense comment goes, I do not put words in other people's mouths. I disagree with people (often), but I do not make things up.

Conversely, you often say that people call you names, but I have yet to see anyone call you a name; yet, at the same time, you routinely call people "Yinzers", "knee-jerkers" and other such things. Has anyone ACTUALLY called you any names? Likewise, have I ACTUALLY stated that you think the defense sucks? No and no.

When did I ever say "the next OC has to be an asshole and yell at him all the time"??? Seriously when did I say anything like that? anything similar to that? anything that even could be misconstrued as such? Please, answer the question.

In fact, when you say the words "the next OC has to be an asshole and yell at him all the time" you are the one being extreme. Look at what you wrote. The words "all the time" are the epitome of extreme.

Speaking of your words:

He needs to design a playbook based off the strengths of his personnel, not on old-school philosophies.

Now, look at the posts that I wrote to steelfury. They sound eerily similar... don't they??? Seriously, look & compare. I said almost the exact same things. It says nothing about Haley should be yelling at BB???

ART II...AGAIN
As Atlanta Dan stated, Art II's main goal was to protect his franchise QB.

Less sacks = protecting the QB... and the sack total is down. Period.

Again, this was already stated... scroll back.

cowherpower
12-19-2012, 08:44 PM
I think it's a little unfair to judge Haley based on the facts that: Ben's skills set as mentioned many times by others, does not lend itself to diagnosing the D and what is given and getting rid of the ball quickly. The receivers have been pretty bad this season. The line that was supposed to be shored up with additions of DeCastro and Adams never was able to due to injuries. So, trying to run the ball with subpar running backs, subpar o line, subpar receivers (this season) a bad defense that makes offense not want to take risks, which of course leads to turnovers as you are confining your efforts and paying too close to the vest. Seriously, it was a shit show this season but Haley would be one of the last to get blame in my book.

zcoop
12-19-2012, 09:26 PM
Just watched a recap of Sunday's game on NFL Turning Point and I didn't know that Brandon Carr once played for Haley @ KC.After hearing the converstation and analyzation of the Int in OT, it appears that Carr jumped the play based on his knowledge of Haley's offense. Ben didn't know it but Dal was waiting on that play. Wow!

Hawaii 5-0
12-19-2012, 10:03 PM
Just watched a recap of Sunday's game on NFL Turning Point and I didn't know that Brandon Carr once played for Haley @ KC.After hearing the converstation and analyzation of the Int in OT, it appears that Carr jumped the play based on his knowledge of Haley's offense. Ben didn't know it but Dal was waiting on that play. Wow!

but Haley might have known that, which is why Ben maybe shouldn't have been calling the plays in that situation...

zcoop
12-19-2012, 10:10 PM
but Haley might have known that, which is why Ben maybe shouldn't have been calling the plays in that situation...

True dat. Adds a little more perspective for me, to the ending of the game.

teegre
12-19-2012, 11:33 PM
but Haley might have known that, which is why Ben maybe shouldn't have been calling the plays in that situation...

Hmmm... very interesting point.

That said, I trust BB with the no huddle. As soon as he goes to it, I am 100% convinced that he will lead the team down for a TD.

Maybe I am still stuck in the midst of the ending of SuperBowl XLIII, but every single time that BB starts a late-game drive, I think: "Sweet!!! Here we go!!!" At the end of XLV, I thought that... until the very last down. And, this past weekend was no different: as soon as they went no huddle in OT, I was like, "Sweet!!! The Steelers got this in the bag!!!"

Maybe I'm ostriching, but I just have blind, unruffable faith that BB will come through... always.

Ricco Suavez
12-20-2012, 07:46 AM
I have and will be a Ben supporter and defender. His comments from the pre-season when Haley and him were just getting to know each other I felt where more reporter fodder than real news. This last comment while spoken in frustration should of been done in private, not publicly. In this instance Ben was in the wrong, you do not hang out team mates or coaches. The point he apologized earlier in the week speaks that either he came to the same realization or was told by someone he respects/answers to. I am not saying Ben is wrong in what he said or that he does not have input, I am saying he is wrong to "air dirty laundry". This team needs as much team unity as possible. Hopefully this will solidify their working relationship and bring some consistency to this offense. I still think a balanced offense is more potent than pass happy or run dependent teams. Times have changed though and a balanced offense does not mean 50-50 today, more along the lines of 60-40. I still think that Bellicheks biggest strength as a coach is once he finds a weakness or finds he has an advantage somewhere, he keeps exploiting that advantage until you do something to negate that advantage. Other coaches seem to try and overthink by saying lets "mix it up". I think that if the passing game is clicking then keep the pedal pushed, and vice versa if the running game is working then by all means do not quit pounding the rock. I also still think we are just not strong enough up front or talented enough at RB to have a good running game yet.

GoFor7
12-20-2012, 10:28 AM
I think it's a little unfair to judge Haley based on the facts that: Ben's skills set as mentioned many times by others, does not lend itself to diagnosing the D and what is given and getting rid of the ball quickly. The receivers have been pretty bad this season. The line that was supposed to be shored up with additions of DeCastro and Adams never was able to due to injuries. So, trying to run the ball with subpar running backs, subpar o line, subpar receivers (this season) a bad defense that makes offense not want to take risks, which of course leads to turnovers as you are confining your efforts and paying too close to the vest. Seriously, it was a shit show this season but Haley would be one of the last to get blame in my book.

This is a big reason why the team sits at 7-7. They're playing small ball. They're so scared about what "could" happen. Ben "could" get hurt, or the defense "could" give up a big play. So they dumb down their strengths to try and hide their perceived weaknesses.

How many teams have won a super bowl playing scared?

Wallace108
12-20-2012, 10:37 AM
I have and will be a Ben supporter and defender. His comments from the pre-season when Haley and him were just getting to know each other I felt where more reporter fodder than real news. This last comment while spoken in frustration should of been done in private, not publicly. In this instance Ben was in the wrong, you do not hang out team mates or coaches. The point he apologized earlier in the week speaks that either he came to the same realization or was told by someone he respects/answers to. I am not saying Ben is wrong in what he said or that he does not have input, I am saying he is wrong to "air dirty laundry". This team needs as much team unity as possible. Hopefully this will solidify their working relationship and bring some consistency to this offense. I still think a balanced offense is more potent than pass happy or run dependent teams. Times have changed though and a balanced offense does not mean 50-50 today, more along the lines of 60-40. I still think that Bellicheks biggest strength as a coach is once he finds a weakness or finds he has an advantage somewhere, he keeps exploiting that advantage until you do something to negate that advantage. Other coaches seem to try and overthink by saying lets "mix it up". I think that if the passing game is clicking then keep the pedal pushed, and vice versa if the running game is working then by all means do not quit pounding the rock. I also still think we are just not strong enough up front or talented enough at RB to have a good running game yet.

Ricco, what we see playing out right now is exactly what I was concerned about during the offseason. The media isn't just making stuff up ... there's a problem there. It's been there all along just festering. And despite Ben's apology, I don't think it's over.

Here's what Jerome Bettis had to say about it on Mike and Mike:

"You know, it's clearly a problem. It's been a problem all year. They've been able to mask the problem, I think partly because of Ben's injury and other issues they've had to deal with. But it's always been there. ...

I think as this year goes on, and as the losses start to mount, there's a frustration there that you're going to start to see more and more, so if they can kind of get through and get a couple more wins, I think it can die down, but I think you're going to start to see this, if they can't get to the playoffs, I think it's going to explode right here in the offseason."

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8754574

Ricco Suavez
12-20-2012, 02:20 PM
Wallace I know you called this early in the off season and while I will agree this should never have happened on Ben's part, I am not ready to concede that all the crap printed early on was the "smoke before the fire". I still believe the media was on fishing expeditions and while Ben's quotes could be perceived as inflammatory most were nothing more than sound bites and attempts at humor. Even non vocal stories such as Ben had not met with Haley were taken out of context, and most of the printed articles with the emphasis on certain phrases were much worse in print than when listened to by the human ear as spoken. Ben has apologized and I hope this is the end of it, but I am afraid it makes for a dull story line so I expect some more commentary even if nothing else happens.

Wallace108
12-20-2012, 03:51 PM
Wallace I know you called this early in the off season and while I will agree this should never have happened on Ben's part, I am not ready to concede that all the crap printed early on was the "smoke before the fire". I still believe the media was on fishing expeditions and while Ben's quotes could be perceived as inflammatory most were nothing more than sound bites and attempts at humor. Even non vocal stories such as Ben had not met with Haley were taken out of context, and most of the printed articles with the emphasis on certain phrases were much worse in print than when listened to by the human ear as spoken. Ben has apologized and I hope this is the end of it, but I am afraid it makes for a dull story line so I expect some more commentary even if nothing else happens.

You and me both, Ricco. :drink:

FrancoLambert
12-20-2012, 05:37 PM
Just watched a recap of Sunday's game on NFL Turning Point and I didn't know that Brandon Carr once played for Haley @ KC.After hearing the converstation and analyzation of the Int in OT, it appears that Carr jumped the play based on his knowledge of Haley's offense. Ben didn't know it but Dal was waiting on that play. Wow!

Yeah, Carr jumped the route and intercepted a ball that was thrown way behind Wallace.

GoFor7
12-20-2012, 05:52 PM
Yeah, Carr jumped the route and intercepted a ball that was thrown way behind Wallace.

Wouldn't it be great if the Steelers' DBs were allowed to do that? Of course if Carr missed the INT it could've resulted in a big play for the Steelers. Carr was lucky, next time he better sit back and "tackle the catch" or else he might allow a big play!

teegre
12-20-2012, 06:31 PM
Wouldn't it be great if the Steelers' DBs were allowed to do that? Of course if Carr missed the INT it could've resulted in a big play for the Steelers. Carr was lucky, next time he better sit back and "tackle the catch" or else he might allow a big play!

It wouldn't matter. Their hands are made of stone. :wink02:

GoFor7
12-20-2012, 06:44 PM
It wouldn't matter. Their hands are made of stone. :wink02:

Still, Carr took a risk to make a play. Wouldn't it be great if the Steelers took some risks - on both sides of the ball? Maybe somebody makes a play. Maybe their record is better than 7-7.

Fire Haley
12-21-2012, 06:38 AM
Funny how Ben never half-assed throws when he had an OC he could trust.

12-4 to 8-8

Fire Haley!!!!


and who gives a shit if Ben and Arians were buds - they were winning



Fun facts:

Steelers have had only 12 passes of 20+ yards all season


Fire Mr Dink & Dunk! Fire Haley!>> Ben

GoFor7
12-21-2012, 12:10 PM
Funny how Ben never half-assed throws when he had an OC he could trust.

12-4 to 8-8

Fire Haley!!!!

and who gives a shit if Ben and Arians were buds - they were winning



Fun facts:

Steelers have had only 12 passes of 20+ yards all season


Fire Mr Dink & Dunk! Fire Haley!>> Ben

Tomlin is buddy-buddy grab-ass with all the players and no one cares, but the OC can't be buddy-buddy with Ben because "he lacks discipline."

Hey stiller fans, you know who lacks discipline? The Loose Change Crew. But no, yell at Ben. Put him in his place! He's the biggest problem with the team! Not the owner that's enamored with outdated football! Not the WRs that can't catch! Not the offensive line that can't block! Not the lack of a real #1 RB! Not the complete and utter lack of focus on this team! Nope! It's all on Ben!

There were no charges against Ben, it's time to move on from that.

Kanata-Steeler
12-22-2012, 07:55 AM
Ben has already did his "apology tour" for trying to call out Haley for lack of a no-huddle, plus other comments, Haley just shrugged them off as just "heat-of-the-moment".
lack of no-huddle didn't kill us, lack of a better running game, horrible fumbles by AB, and interceptions (especially at the last) by Ben killed that game.
Even BEN knows that now.

anyway, ..., upward and onward against Cincy

Hawaii 5-0
12-22-2012, 01:08 PM
Roethlisberger's criticism doesn't faze Haley

December 21, 2012
By Ray Fittipaldo / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

http://d4493f2df0d1b95cfc62-773cd17a86049dd672fafb96394debed.r5.cf2.rackcdn.co m/2012/355/878/haleyjpg_420.jpg

Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley, throwing passes at practice Wednesday, was not upset with Ben Roethlisberger's criticism after the loss Sunday at Dallas.

Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley said he and Ben Roethlisberger are on the same page "as much as a quarterback and coordinator can be." Haley brushed aside the critical remarks Roethlisberger made after a loss Sunday against Dallas at Cowboys Stadium, and, later in the same 10-minute interview sessions with reporters Thursday afternoon, complemented his quarterback by referring to him as "elite."

There is no controversy from Haley's perspective after Roethlisberger questioned his play-calling and use of tight end Heath Miller in the second half of a Steelers 27-24 overtime loss.

"That was an emotional game," Haley said. "Whatever was said can't be taken too much to the heart because that's the way this game is. Guys will get into it in locker rooms, in the building, on the practice field. It's the mindset you get into when you're getting ready to compete and coach a big game. There's emotion involved. I wouldn't really pay much attention to anything that's said in an emotional state of mind."

Haley is no stranger to conflict. When he was the offensive coordinator of the Arizona Cardinals he got into a heated sideline argument with Anquan Boldin in the 2009 NFC championship. If not for a last-minute drive engineered by Roethlisberger in Super Bowl XLIII, Haley and Boldin would have won a championship together.

"I think healthy conflict, discussion, banter is good because it gets you to the right place and gets everyone on the same page and where you need to be," Haley said.

"Like I've said a number of times, when I make a call into Ben's ear in the game I'm putting complete faith in him to make it the best call it can be. The same goes for him.

"When he hears my voice, he has to trust and believe that the play coming is giving us the best chance to succeed. You develop that in these Sunday battles against other teams. That's where it develops with the trust and camaraderie. That's what's occurred. There will be ups and downs because there's emotion and a lot at stake every week. We put a lot of time, effort and sacrifice into this. I think a little bit of healthy conflict is a good thing."

Roethlisberger is having one of his better statistical seasons under Haley's direction. He has thrown 22 touchdowns and only six interceptions. The touchdown total is his third highest in a season. He threw 26 in 2009 and 32 in 2007.

Roethlisberger's career-low for interceptions was five in 2010, when he was suspended for the first four games of the season. Haley was not taking any solace in those statistics.

"What we're about is win-loss," Haley said. "That's how you're measured. How many wins do you have? Are you in the playoffs? We're shooting for that game in New Orleans. That's our only goal.

"That's the great thing about here in Pittsburgh. The expectations are truly what we say they are. It's Super Bowl or bust. That's the focus. Win these big games you have to win to get into the tournament and then obviously win those. Numbers and all that stuff are not important to me. It's important what the final score says at the end of the day.

"It's not having the highest-rated quarterback or most rushing yards or the highest-rated receivers. It's to win games."

And Haley believes Roethlisberger gives the Steelers a great chance to do that the next two games and get into the playoffs.

"The great thing is whether there's a media fire storm or not, you need a really good quarterback to win in this league," he said. "We happen to have, in my opinion, an elite quarterback. You're talking about a player that is a really, really good player at his position, and he's the quarterback. That gives you a chance to win each and every week."

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/roethlisbergers-criticism-doesnt-faze-haley-667250/#ixzz2FnzIPgG7

harrison'samonster
12-22-2012, 01:16 PM
[B]
"The great thing is whether there's a media fire storm or not, you need a really good quarterback to win in this league," he said. "We happen to have, in my opinion, an elite quarterback. You're talking about a player that is a really, really good player at his position, and he's the quarterback. That gives you a chance to win each and every week."



love hearing that from Haley. I think these behind the scene feuds are really overblown by the media and to an extent us fans.

GoFor7
12-22-2012, 03:01 PM
"The great thing is whether there's a media fire storm or not, you need a really good quarterback to win in this league," he said. "We happen to have, in my opinion, an elite quarterback. You're talking about a player that is a really, really good player at his position, and he's the quarterback. That gives you a chance to win each and every week."

Then maybe the Steelers should let him try and win games earlier instead of asking him to bail the team out in the last 2 minutes of a game.

Lady Steel
12-22-2012, 09:53 PM
"I think healthy conflict, discussion, banter is good because it gets you to the right place and gets everyone on the same page and where you need to be," Haley said.

"Like I've said a number of times, when I make a call into Ben's ear in the game I'm putting complete faith in him to make it the best call it can be. The same goes for him.

"When he hears my voice, he has to trust and believe that the play coming is giving us the best chance to succeed. You develop that in these Sunday battles against other teams. That's where it develops with the trust and camaraderie. That's what's occurred. There will be ups and downs because there's emotion and a lot at stake every week. We put a lot of time, effort and sacrifice into this. I think a little bit of healthy conflict is a good thing."


This is the key.