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desertsteel
12-22-2012, 12:11 AM
Another Past/Present question:

Who's the Better Leader? Not better QB, but better leader.

Big Ben or Terry Bradshaw?

Stu Pidasso
12-22-2012, 12:17 AM
I voted for Terry. The players around Ben don't give me the vibe of "I'd follow that guy into Hell" like Terry's crew did. Or maybe it's my rose colored glasses.

casteeler
12-22-2012, 12:28 AM
I'll take Ben,he seems to wil his guys down the field.... Until they cough it up:dang:

Lady Steel
12-22-2012, 01:46 AM
I voted Ben.

WVABE
12-22-2012, 06:21 AM
Voted Ben, that's was Chucks crew back then, Terry just happened to be there.

Bayz101
12-22-2012, 06:37 AM
I voted Ben. If he disappeared off the face of the earth, the team would be lost. I doubt the 70's Steelers would fail without Bradshaw at quarterback.

Kanata-Steeler
12-22-2012, 08:10 AM
Bradshaw as leader, and he's still the Leader of all those other clowns at FOX.
Also, TB has just recently celebrated his 50th appearance on Jay Leno as "lead" guest. !

EDIT: TB and Jay Leno "cakefight" last night.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5I1KZqixck
+1 for Jay Leno's QB sack.
:chuckle:

The guy is just a natural born LEADER.

-err um except in his singing caerer, he was not a great "lead"-singer.
Ha ha ha.

steeltheone
12-22-2012, 08:17 AM
Ben's rep took a big hit a few years back ( deservingly so ) Terry gets this vote!

FrancoLambert
12-22-2012, 10:34 AM
Voted Ben, that's was Chucks crew back then, Terry just happened to be there.

Yeah, Terry JUST HAPPENED TO BE THERE for 4 Super Bowl wins. :doh:
He had nothing to do with it; he was lucky and went along for the ride. :wink02:
I'm guessing you never saw Terry play in live action, just on tapes and DVD's.

madtowndrunkard
12-22-2012, 11:35 AM
Did Terry ever have players slamming him to the media? Ben did.... Did Terry have a reputation of being a total jerk to everyone? Ben Did. Did Terry ever get accused of rape? Ben Did...twice actually. Did Terry have off the field injuries that hindered the success of his team? Ben did. Terry won 4 SB rings. Ben did NOT.. .

How is this even close? Ben definitely has more physical talent...but as a leader to his teammates..it's not even close.

Cyphon
12-22-2012, 12:01 PM
I am going with Terry. Wasn't around to see him play and honestly know little of his rep as a player at the time but he is from a generation where I would expect most people to be strong leaders or more close to being "class acts". Ben has a history of doing dumb shit and even recently running off at the mouth after the Cowboys game. Not that I dislike Ben but facts are facts.

Also Terry has more Superbowl appearances and rings.

steeltheone
12-22-2012, 12:51 PM
Did Terry ever have players slamming him to the media? Ben did.... Did Terry have a reputation of being a total jerk to everyone? Ben Did. Did Terry ever get accused of rape? Ben Did...twice actually. Did Terry have off the field injuries that hindered the success of his team? Ben did. Terry won 4 SB rings. Ben did NOT.. .

How is this even close? Ben definitely has more physical talent...but as a leader to his teammates..it's not even close.

Terry showed up in big games, that is what champs are made of. He is very underrated.

Hawaii 5-0
12-22-2012, 01:03 PM
I voted for Terry Paxton Bradshaw and his four Super Bowl rings.

http://trialx.com/curetalk/wp-content/blogs.dir/7/files/2011/03/gcelebrities/Terry_Bradshaw-3.jpg

SteelersCanada
12-22-2012, 01:10 PM
Benjamin

ZoneBlitzer
12-22-2012, 01:39 PM
Terry called his own plays. He drove that offense. He remains one of the best big play QBs of all time.

WVABE
12-22-2012, 01:55 PM
Yeah, Terry JUST HAPPENED TO BE THERE for 4 Super Bowl wins. :doh:
He had nothing to do with it; he was lucky and went along for the ride. :wink02:
I'm guessing you never saw Terry play in live action, just on tapes and DVD's.Nah, never saw Terry play, only been a Steeler fan since the dawn of Chuck.

FrancoLambert
12-22-2012, 02:34 PM
Nah, never saw Terry play, only been a Steeler fan since the dawn of Chuck.

Which makes your comment that Terry just happened to be there at the right time and got carried along by the rest of the team even more unbelievable.
What were you watching? It couldn't have been # 12.

WVABE
12-22-2012, 03:21 PM
You could put Charlie Brown in surrounded by excellent players and make him look great.
I would hate to even think about Terry being a part of our offence the past few years, probably be a 3rd stringer.

Hawaii 5-0
12-22-2012, 03:36 PM
You could put Charlie Brown in surrounded by excellent players and make him look great.
I would hate to even think about Terry being a part of our offence the past few years, probably be a 3rd stringer.

yeah, Terry Bradshaw would never be able to beat out Byron Leftwich or Charlie Batch for the back-up job...:sarcalert:

TheVet
12-22-2012, 03:43 PM
Terry showed up in big games, that is what champs are made of. He is very underrated.

Exactly. Ben may be the more talented QB, but Terry always raised his play to the highest level when it counted the most.

Great thread, by the way. Two great QBs.

nj1923steelgirl
12-22-2012, 06:58 PM
Its a hard choice...but I went with Terry...

Kanata-Steeler
12-22-2012, 09:23 PM
Terry is busting Ben's balls on this thread, whereas it should be Ben's wife, but then again, Terry, unfortunately, did lead the pack in that department too, Time will tell.
Just trying to be satirical, and NOT sarcastic, just fun.

Neil-Still-Rules-14
12-23-2012, 02:20 AM
Ben Roethlisberger has regularly taken what would regularly be an average to above-average team and made it into an annual Super Bowl contender. Receivers, running backs, and offensive linemen have come and gone, but Ben has kept this team a contender. Terry Bradshaw is at best an above-average quarterback. Sure he won 4 Super Bowls, but with an absurd amount of Hall of Famers on each side of the ball, and some very mediocre statistics overall. Ben Roethlisberger is already the greatest QB in team history (by far) and is well on his way to becoming one of the greatest in NFL history. This isn't even a debate anymore. And as far as the "big plays in big situations" argument, that's total bunk. Ben has a higher playoff QB rating and completion percentage, and there's almost no doubt he'll break the raw stats once he plays his 19th playoff game like Bradshaw did.

bornaSteelersfan
12-23-2012, 04:02 AM
Terry was definitely a better leader. When Bradshaw played, he called all of the offensive plays (running and throwing). Did the Steelers even have an offensive coordinator in his day? Stats do not show the whole story. Bradshaw played when there were only 12 games in a season. He threw nearly as many interceptions as touchdowns, but when the big game was on the line, he managed to come through. Ben is inarguably a better athlete, but Terry was a better leader.

Bayz101
12-23-2012, 04:48 AM
Even after reading the first post, I still misinterpreted the meaning. Put away the "Terry has four Super Bowls" argument, because it's not about the better QB, it's about the leader. I can't vote, because honestly, we haven't seen enough out of Ben yet. Let's see if he leads us to victory tomorrow.

SoCalFan
12-23-2012, 04:54 AM
I voted Ben. By default as I was too small a kid to remember Terry getting the players jacked on the sidelines!:noidea:

Rick5895
12-23-2012, 07:31 AM
Yes those Steeler teams had HOF players, but, IMO Terry was by far the better leader. The defense in those days was deep in leaders, The 2 Jacks, Mean Joe, Mel, but the offense didn't have the leader that stands out except for Bradshaw. A case could be made for Webby, but the WR's weren't really leaders although they are both HOFers. niether was Franco a true leader. Terry called his own plays, played his best the bigger the game.
Ben is a great player, but Ben hasn't had to be a leader. He has had Jerome and Hines to lean on during his career, Not to mention Alan Faneca early aswell. Ben, as good as he is, is just not there yet. Hopefully he gets there....SOON! This team needs that

4xSBChamps
12-23-2012, 08:19 AM
I voted for Terry Paxton Bradshaw and his four Super Bowl rings.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/Glensgages/football/TerryBradshaw-4_zpsb1c1a8d6.jpg

Buddha Bus
12-23-2012, 08:33 AM
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/Glensgages/football/TerryBradshaw-4_zpsb1c1a8d6.jpg


To be the man, you gotta beat the man! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

:chuckle:

4xSBChamps
12-23-2012, 09:03 AM
To be the man, you gotta beat the man! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

:chuckle:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/Glensgages/funny%20pictures/RickFlairWoo.gif

Kanata-Steeler
12-23-2012, 04:26 PM
TERRY PAXTON BRADSHAW !!!
Ben ain't no leader, he's just a follower these days, and a bad one at that.

FrancoLambert
12-23-2012, 05:03 PM
Can't see how anyone could vote for Ben over Terry especially after witnessing our QB self destruct the past 2 weeks.

GoFor7
12-24-2012, 12:04 AM
Funny how people are talking about how great Terry is now. Back in the day, he was hated because he was the star QB. Yinzer nation never passed up a chance to diminish him - until he was gone and you realized the team couldn't win.

Same thing with Ben. Right now many of yinz are mad at him. Many of you don't want to talk about his touchdown pass to Holmes in the Super Bowl, but instead you'd rather talk about every single bad throw he's made. You'll think of him as an interception machine because of his bad game in Oakland in 2006. Many years from now, perhaps after a subpar Steelers season, you'll be talking about how great he was and how terrible some young, franchise Steelers QB is.

I think I now understand why Bradshaw stayed away from Pittsburgh for a while after he retired.

jiminpa
12-24-2012, 12:08 AM
Ben would need two star seasons to be Bradshaw's towel boy.

It took Terry a while for things to slow down in front of him, and once that happened he was everything he had boasted he would be, but he wasn't boasting anymore. Bradshaw willingly grew into the position and kept growing. Bradshaw called the plays within Chuck Noll's scheme, and did it the way Chuck wanted it done. He didn't whine and cry about them not being the plays he thought were fun. He did his job he did it well, and he earned respect. I have never heard of any of the other players telling the wait staff to spit in Terry's drinks.

BR, is none of those, and the other players pretty much hate him.

GoFor7
12-24-2012, 01:26 AM
Ben would need two star seasons to be Bradshaw's towel boy.

It took Terry a while for things to slow down in front of him, and once that happened he was everything he had boasted he would be, but he wasn't boasting anymore. Bradshaw willingly grew into the position and kept growing. Bradshaw called the plays within Chuck Noll's scheme, and did it the way Chuck wanted it done. He didn't whine and cry about them not being the plays he thought were fun. He did his job he did it well, and he earned respect. I have never heard of any of the other players telling the wait staff to spit in Terry's drinks.

BR, is none of those, and the other players pretty much hate him.

jiminpa, continues to be the master of BS.

But, lets say you're right about Bradshaw. Doesn't change the fact that yinzer nation bashed him at every opportunity they could while neglecting his achievements. Some Steeler fans, deep down, whether it's Ben or Terry, want the star QB to fail so they can blame everything on him. Dimwits like you do it every time. They don't realize how silly they sound until they're QBs are Brister, O'Donnell, Stewart, or some other scrub not worth mentioning.

Steel95
12-24-2012, 01:35 AM
I voted for Terry; I was a kid when they won those 4 SuperBowls during the 70's. A leader leads his team on the field and off of it as well. A leader sets the example; he doesn't bring unecessary controversy to the team. Ala Big Ben's comments last Sunday. In order to become a leader, one must first follow. I voted for Terry because he played the position like a natural QB; I like Big Ben and some of the things he does when he extends those plays. But you know, sometimes I think he extends the plays just 2b extending the play. You don't have to make a splash play on every down.

jiminpa
12-24-2012, 05:04 AM
I voted for Terry; I was a kid when they won those 4 SuperBowls during the 70's. A leader leads his team on the field and off of it as well. A leader sets the example; he doesn't bring unecessary controversy to the team. Ala Big Ben's comments last Sunday. In order to become a leader, one must first follow. I voted for Terry because he played the position like a natural QB; I like Big Ben and some of the things he does when he extends those plays. But you know, sometimes I think he extends the plays just 2b extending the play. You don't have to make a splash play on every down.^^This.

Steel Peon
12-24-2012, 09:19 AM
You forgot to include Hines Ward on the list......he's technically also a QB, and definitely a team leader.

GoFor7
12-24-2012, 11:45 AM
And the point is missed, but you're actually proving my point by missing it in a weird way. Despite everything he accomplished, Terry was hated back then. It wasn't until after his retirement yinzers realized how good he was.

History may be repeating itself.

teegre
12-25-2012, 11:21 AM
The problem with this kind of debate: it quickly descends into political-esque theatrics. Instead of simply cheering for whom you prefer, it becomes all about mudslinging.

Let's use Superman versus Batman as an allegory.

"Superman is better, because he can fly"
"Batman is better, because he has no superpowers; just sheer will power."

[It starts off well.]

"Eff Batman!!! He's a spoiled billionaire."
"Yeah, well, Superman looks like a pansy in his colored tights."

[Hark... it unravels further...]

"Anyone who likes Batman is a dumb-ass."
"Those who like Superman are low in IQ."

[Et cetera.]

What both sides of this debate need to realize is that BOTH players are great... or, using the superhero analogy, neither one of them is Aquaman.

Edman
12-25-2012, 11:46 AM
I wasn't around during the 70's but I'm voting for Terry on virtue of not shitting all over himself in do-or-die situations like Ben has. Terry has two Super Bowl MVP's. Ben is still looking for his first one.

Terry doesn't lose to teams on caliber as the 2012 Raiders, Titans, or Chargers. Or the 2009 Raiders and Browns.

Ben just strikes me as a guy who really doesn't give a shit about preparation (There were talks of that) and is an incompetent leader on the Steelers Offense. Too much of damn "nice guy" to call teammates out and inspire them to do better. Why is it that year after year we're seeing the same old offensive gaffes like Untimely penalties, Red Zone Failures, blown deep balls, and boneheaded plays. You don't see that happening with Brady, Manning, or Brees under Center. They make mistakes, but they do their best to minimize them. Ben simply put just doesn't give a shit. Those QB's get their Offenses on the same page or else. Manning made the Broncos into one of the best teams in the AFC in no time flat. Put Ben on another team and I don't see the same thing happening. I don't get the vibe of players wanting to go to hell for this guy on the field, but they for sure would want to hang out with him off the field, though.

Tom Brady doesn't lose to Tim Tebow or a 13-10 contest to a division rival with the season on the line. AT HOME. To beat Tom Brady, you need your best effort. To beat Ben Roethlisberger, you just need to be barely competent.

Sunday's disaster really put a HUGE damper on Ben for me. How the hell do you as a veteran QB. come out so ill-prepared to play? The Defense puts up an inspiring effort for the home crowd and he still has his thumb up his ass. Our "Leader", Ladies and Gentleman. The 2012 Steelers were a team desperate for leadership, and Ben is not a good leader at the moment. He's just a perpetual adolescent. Just like Brett Favre.

Fuck this "Don't criticize" bullcrap. I don't have to accept garbage and be happy with it. Ben has earned every last bit of criticism.

4xSBChamps
12-25-2012, 02:54 PM
The problem with this kind of debate: it quickly descends into political-esque theatrics. Instead of simply cheering for whom you prefer, it becomes all about mudslinging.

Let's use Superman versus Batman as an allegory.

"Superman is better, because he can fly"
"Batman is better, because he has no superpowers; just sheer will power."



"Eff Batman!!! He's a spoiled billionaire."
"Yeah, well, Superman looks like a pansy in his colored tights."

[Hark... it unravels further...]

"Anyone who likes Batman is a dumb-ass."
"Those who like Superman are low in IQ."

[Et cetera.]

What both sides of this debate need to realize is that BOTH players are great... or, using the superhero analogy, neither one of them is Aquaman.

[I] "... Aquaman???

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/Glensgages/TV%20shows/UnderdogSweetPollyPurebread_zps7f369781.gif

... he's a friggin' Dolphins-fan!!!"

VictoryFormation
12-25-2012, 05:48 PM
Who is the better leader, Terry or Ben?

Terry was allowed to call his own plays on every down. Ben is not given the freedom to do that, but there have been times when he carried this team on his shoulders. In seasons past, he put his body on the line, taking hits after he unloaded the ball down-field, and running the bootleg for scores when nothing else would work. Win, or lose, he takes responsibility for the way the offense plays.
Bradshaw was a great quarterback, a very important player on the team, and a leader, but not as ingrained in the Steeler offense as Ben Roethlisberger is today.

lloydwoodson
01-07-2013, 03:09 AM
Yeah, Terry JUST HAPPENED TO BE THERE for 4 Super Bowl wins. :doh:
He had nothing to do with it; he was lucky and went along for the ride. :wink02:
I'm guessing you never saw Terry play in live action, just on tapes and DVD's.

Did you know... Terry Bradshaw is tied with Joe Montana for most consecutive playoff games with at least 2 throwing TDs with 7? Did you know that Bradshaw's career postseason rating is 83.0 and Roethlisberger's is 83.7?

The_Joker
01-07-2013, 05:26 AM
As great as he was, Terry was way before my time. I can't vote.

desertsteel
01-07-2013, 08:44 AM
If Ben wins another Super Bowl, I think he will be the only offensive starter from the 2005 champs. That would be an accomplishment.

torpedoshell31
01-07-2013, 01:06 PM
When I started watching the Steelers way back in the mid-60's our QB's were guys like Kent Nix and Dick Shiner-(yes that was his real name), so I'm just glad we've had both Terry and Ben through the years. As far as on the field leadership, I would have to lean towards Ben because he never had near the talent around him as Terry did. Plus I still remember Terry being benched on occasion for Terry Hanratty and Joe Gilliam. In fact Gilliam started the first half of the season during our first Super Bowl year. After sitting for several games and watching from the bench, when Noll decided to give Bradshaw another chance he became a different player and his career really took off then.

wwhickok
01-07-2013, 03:39 PM
Im a Big Ben fan for sure but I had to say Bradshaw. Its just..sometimes Ben doeant take enough responsibility. Sometimes he doesnt know when to shut up. Quite frankly sometimes he is just plain selfish. But I would agree that can be said of most players.

torpedoshell31
01-07-2013, 04:02 PM
Probably the best leader wasn't either one, it was Rocky Bleier. I mean he led troops into real battle and was wounded from a grenade that blew off part of his foot. It kind of put things in perspective when we talk about Terry going to "war" against the Oilers, or Ben "under fire" from the Ravens pass rush.

pczach
01-07-2013, 06:51 PM
If Ben wins another Super Bowl, I think he will be the only offensive starter from the 2005 champs. That would be an accomplishment.

That's because he keeps getting surrounded by dozens of HOF offensive players. They just don't stay around very long. If it weren't for all these incredibly talented players, Ben would hardly ever win a game.:toofunny:

I haven't voted, and I probably won't. As I've said in multiple posts, I love both these guys and what they've helped our team accomplish. I know Ben has had his issues. That has been well documented here. Terry played great in big games, no doubt about it. But the difference in talent level is staggering. Ben has done more with MUCH less. I also understand supporting Terry, but he was not a leader on that team. Many times he sulked in the locker room, and he was legendarily insecure. That doesn't sound like a great leader to me. The 70's teams had so much talent and leadership everywhere, that his support system was superior. Ben had a great leader like Bettis, but nowhere near the number of true profussionals Terry had standing beside him.

In the end, I'm just happy we have had a chance to watch and root for both of them. I don't think many are going to know how good Ben is until he's not playing anymore. That's the sad thing about this, and what we should learn from how history has treated Terry Bradshaw.

The_Joker
01-07-2013, 06:53 PM
If Ben wins another Super Bowl, I think he will be the only offensive starter from the 2005 champs. That would be an accomplishment.

Heath and Starks.