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Steelers5895
12-23-2012, 10:27 PM
Prior to the 2008 season and since then, i have seen Ben fail more than succeed with comeback attempts. He was amazing in 2008 with the climax in super bowl 43 but since then the comebacks have been far and few, to include a shot to win in super bowl 45.

This year, 3 chances to win a game (Den, Dallas, Cincy) and all three wound up with interceptions.

I am losing confidence in his ability to bring us back from behind or from a tie.

GoFor7
12-23-2012, 10:30 PM
*sigh* How many times does it have to be explained to you people......

When you handcuff the QB for the first 58 minutes of the game, and then ask him to bail the team out in the last 2 minutes, he's not always going to be able to do it. That may not have been the case against the Bengals as the offense was terrible all day, but it has been the story for much of the season.

Want more from Ben? Let him win the game earlier instead of worrying about time of possession for the first 3 quarters.

Not hard to understand.

Steelers5895
12-23-2012, 10:33 PM
*sigh* How many times does it have to be explained to you people......

When you handcuff the QB for the first 58 minutes of the game, and then ask him to bail the team out in the last 2 minutes, he's not always going to be able to do it. That may not have been the case against the Bengals as the offense was terrible all day, but it has been the story for much of the season.

Want more from Ben? Let him win the game earlier instead of worrying about time of possession for the first 3 quarters.

Not hard to understand.

disagree. the defense was a no show vs denver and dallas this year and ben was having very good success. when he had the ball with the chance to win or OT he turned the ball over.

same in super bowl 45 for that matter.

when was he handcuffed? example?

tanda10506
12-23-2012, 10:35 PM
Not prior to 2008. He has been pretty clutch from the beginning (except the 05 SB) up until the 2010 SB loss. Before that SB he was magnificent, some where saying possibly the most clutch QB of all time, but since that SB loss he has failed every attempt he has had. I too am losing quite a bit of confidence. This year he did more then just not winning the game at the end, 3 times he sealed the deal for the opponent (Denver, Dallas, today).

GoFor7
12-23-2012, 10:36 PM
disagree. the defense was a no show vs denver and dallas this year and ben was having very good success. when he had the ball with the chance to win or OT he turned the ball over.

same in super bowl 45 for that matter.

when was he handcuffed? example?

In Denver, the Steelers offense was more worried about time of possession than scoring. Quite evident in their play calling with RUTM on almost every 1st and 2nd down. When you play close to the vest as often as the Steelers do, you're QB won't bail you out every time.

Steelers5895
12-23-2012, 10:37 PM
Not prior to 2008. He has been pretty clutch from the beginning (except the 05 SB) up until the 2010 SB loss. Before that SB he was magnificent, some where saying possibly the most clutch QB of all time, but since that SB loss he has failed every attempt he has had. I too am losing quite a bit of confidence. This year he did more then just not winning the game, 3 times he sealed the deal for the opponent (Denver, Dallas, today).

thats my feeling exactly. we got spoiled in 2008 and since he has been very shaky to a failure. wonder how much is him or our wide receivers. i lost confidence in them this year. lots of talk, little prodcution, lots of mistakes. none have a ring.

Steelers5895
12-23-2012, 10:38 PM
In Denver, the Steelers offense was more worried about time of possession than scoring. Quite evident in their play calling with RUTM on almost every 1st and 2nd down. When you play close to the vest as often as the Steelers do, you're QB won't bail you out every time.

how about 1 time in 2 years? they werent playing close to the vest, they were unstoppable on 3rd down in that game. peyton manning caught fire and the ball was in bens hand with a chance to win and he sealed the deal for denver...and dallas...and cincy.

ZoneBlitzer
12-23-2012, 10:49 PM
Not prior to 2008. He has been pretty clutch from the beginning (except the 05 SB) up until the 2010 SB loss. Before that SB he was magnificent, some where saying possibly the most clutch QB of all time, but since that SB loss he has failed every attempt he has had. I too am losing quite a bit of confidence. This year he did more then just not winning the game at the end, 3 times he sealed the deal for the opponent (Denver, Dallas, today).

Yup. Spot on. But you won't hear that from the media. He was outstanding but unfortunately fortune has a way of evening out. He is losing his mojo.

Steelers5895
12-23-2012, 10:50 PM
hey i am glad to have him but when was the last comeback and for that matter, when was our last blow out?

Cherinko
12-23-2012, 10:58 PM
...When you handcuff the QB for the first 58 minutes of the game...

I have read this phrase 19 times today. You are like a politician with a talking point. Two weeks in a row Ben has concluded with game clinching interceptions (hitting two DB's in the hands). In every loss this season other than the one today, he has attempted at least 40 passes. He is not 'handcuffed' by anything other than his inability to read defenses and his unwillingness to throw the ball away. Ben is not the weak point of this team but he is not the infallible hero you make him out to be. He is the quarterback and it is a quarterback driven league. He bears responsibility. It is ok to criticize him.

PhantomJB93
12-23-2012, 11:10 PM
He had fourth quarter comebacks against Philly, Cincy, and NYG this year. He should have had one against Dallas but Antonio Brown coughed it up and he had to do it again and failed. People think he's unclutch because he failed a few times this year, but he was forced into too many of those situations. He still led 3 fourth quarter comebacks, and a fourth that we choked away, and that's in only 12 games he played. You can't be expected to do it every time, and 3 or 4 in 3/4 a season should be more than enough to warrant the "clutch" moniker.

Expecting him to go 6 for 6 in those situations is ridiculous, 3 for 6 is fine. The fact that he threw picks in the other 3 is troublesome, but 2 of those came after his injury and considering this whole season was a clusterfuck by everyone on this team I'm not writing him off. I bet about 28 quarterbacks in the NFL would have been successful 2 or less times out of those 6, and of the remaining QB's I doubt any would have done better than 4.

ZoneBlitzer
12-23-2012, 11:12 PM
hey i am glad to have him but when was the last comeback and for that matter, when was our last blow out?

What's a blowout?

GoFor7
12-23-2012, 11:14 PM
I have read this phrase 19 times today. You are like a politician with a talking point. Two weeks in a row Ben has concluded with game clinching interceptions (hitting two DB's in the hands). In every loss this season other than the one today, he has attempted at least 40 passes. He is not 'handcuffed' by anything other than his inability to read defenses and his unwillingness to throw the ball away. Ben is not the weak point of this team but he is not the infallible hero you make him out to be. He is the quarterback and it is a quarterback driven league. He bears responsibility. It is ok to criticize him.

And how many of those were bubble screens and checkdowns? Don't look too much into pass/run ratio as it does not tell the entire story. They hardly let him go down field unless it's the last two minutes of the half or the last two minutes of the game.

I agree it's a quarterback league. Someone should inform the Steelers of that.

Steelers5895
12-23-2012, 11:15 PM
What's a blowout?

a game we didnt have to sweat or was still in question going into the 4th qrt. did we have any of them this year? we had to sweat every game, even against lesser competition (oakland, KC, cleveland, tennessee, philly, wash before they got hot, SD)

GoFor7
12-23-2012, 11:18 PM
Guys, when a team plays close to the vest, there aren't going to be any blowouts. Shouldn't be surprised.

Steelers5895
12-23-2012, 11:20 PM
And how many of those were bubble screens and checkdowns? Don't look too much into pass/run ratio as it does not tell the entire story. They hardly let him go down field unless it's the last two minutes of the half or the last two minutes of the game.

I agree it's a quarterback league. Someone should inform the Steelers of that.

i have to agree with you there. way too many bubble screens. most unproductive.

but, the fact heath miller had his best year tells me he is taking chances over the middle. the issue is nothing deep

GoFor7
12-23-2012, 11:24 PM
i have to agree with you there. way too many bubble screens. most unproductive.

but, the fact heath miller had his best year tells me he is taking chances over the middle. the issue is nothing deep

One problem is they don't have a good #2 TE. If they really wanted to dink-and-dunk successfully they should have gotten someone harder to cover in the middle of the field.

Steelers5895
12-23-2012, 11:28 PM
I think this season showed we need help in a lot of places and we didnt improve over last year. wrs regressed, running backs stunk and play calling was so so at best.

Cherinko
12-23-2012, 11:33 PM
And how many of those were bubble screens and checkdowns? Don't look too much into pass/run ratio as it does not tell the entire story. They hardly let him go down field unless it's the last two minutes of the half or the last two minutes of the game.

I agree it's a quarterback league. Someone should inform the Steelers of that.

Roethlisberger is #14 in yards per attempt.

GoFor7
12-23-2012, 11:43 PM
Roethlisberger is #14 in yards per attempt.

Now how many of those came at the end of the half or when the Steelers were down and had to throw their way back into the game?

Darkstorm05
12-24-2012, 12:20 AM
Now how many of those came at the end of the half or when the Steelers were down and had to throw their way back into the game?


1st Half: 244 attempts for 1,718 yards this year.

2nd Half: 180 attempts for 1,406 yards.

GoFor7
12-24-2012, 01:30 AM
1st Half: 244 attempts for 1,718 yards this year.

2nd Half: 180 attempts for 1,406 yards.

How many at the end of the half though?

Darkstorm05
12-24-2012, 02:40 AM
How many at the end of the half though?

Getting harder to scrounge up specific stats, but...

220 attempts for 1559 yards this year when the score was either tied, or Steelers ahead.
178 attempts for 1352 yards when the Steelers were trailing in points. 63 attempts for 502 yards came during 2 minute drill drives.

steelfury02
12-24-2012, 05:45 AM
Getting harder to scrounge up specific stats, but...

220 attempts for 1559 yards this year when the score was either tied, or Steelers ahead.
178 attempts for 1352 yards when the Steelers were trailing in points. 63 attempts for 502 yards came during 2 minute drill drives.

8+ yards average on 2 minute drives
Ben is 11th at 7.35 yards/attempt total. RGIII is #1 w 8.27 yd/attempt, Cam Newton 2nd.

As a good faith gesture, I'll give Ben a pass due to injury. We aren't going to agree so that's all I have left about it. He has played like crap and it could have a lot to do with injury.

therocksteeler
12-24-2012, 05:46 AM
Prior to the 2008 season and since then, i have seen Ben fail more than succeed with comeback attempts. He was amazing in 2008 with the climax in super bowl 43 but since then the comebacks have been far and few, to include a shot to win in super bowl 45.

This year, 3 chances to win a game (Den, Dallas, Cincy) and all three wound up with interceptions.

I am losing confidence in his ability to bring us back from behind or from a tie.

When your OC calls in a slant out route tin order to claim 1 down on a third down play deep in your own field of play and the middle is wide open then there is a problem. Ben was trying to make a play with the options he was given. The choice of play calling resulted in this possiblity of an interception taking place, which it did. This games eb and flow was lost due to poor decision making from the sidelines. 1 run, 2 run, 3 pass is not how we have taken victory from our apponents in the past. A mixture of plays designed to keep the D guessing was key in past wins. This year that mindset has been vacated unfortunatley.

WVABE
12-24-2012, 06:33 AM
Does seem like everytime he went back in a critical situation, he either gets sacked or throw an int.

Rick5895
12-24-2012, 06:51 AM
And how many of those were bubble screens and checkdowns? Don't look too much into pass/run ratio as it does not tell the entire story. They hardly let him go down field unless it's the last two minutes of the half or the last two minutes of the game.

I agree it's a quarterback league. Someone should inform the Steelers of that.

Most teams run the bubble screen effectively, we seem to struggle with it. As for checkdowns, if Ben is checking it down it's because his receivers aren't getting open down field.
At any rate, I'm not so sure Ben is the problem, or Haley for that matter. This was one of those years when nothing went our way. It happens, too many injuries, some of these younger players believing the hype on how good they were. We had absolutely very little separation with our "speedy, talented WR's" too many times this season Wallace and other WR's dropped passes at critical times, way too many turnovers at critical times. Those mistakes cost us at least 3 wins. We hold on to the ball better this discussion doesn't even take place.
What this team lacks is a leader, hopefuly that evolves for us next season, if not I fear more of the same.

Rick5895
12-24-2012, 06:52 AM
Oh BTW, kind of makes you appreciate how much influence and leadership Hines Ward had, doesn't it!!

teegre
12-24-2012, 10:33 AM
I have read this phrase 19 times today. You are like a politician with a talking point. Two weeks in a row Ben has concluded with game clinching interceptions (hitting two DB's in the hands). In every loss this season other than the one today, he has attempted at least 40 passes. He is not 'handcuffed' by anything other than his inability to read defenses and his unwillingness to throw the ball away. Ben is not the weak point of this team but he is not the infallible hero you make him out to be. He is the quarterback and it is a quarterback driven league. He bears responsibility. It is ok to criticize him.

You just made my day!!!

1. That is his catch-phrase of the week... which he will post 20-30 times per day, in various threads... which he hijacks & derails (via repeating the same thing over & over). It's gotten to the point, that none of us can get through a thread without having to "deal" with his obligatory, repetitive posts.

Last week it was "The team is playing scared."

The week before that, it was, "Art II is a spoiled lawyer."

The week before that, it was, "Throw deep on first & second down... and third down, too"

2. One can not say ANYTHING about Big Ben, or else he will unload some sort of derision upon thee (name calling & such).

BB throws an INT... it's Art II's fault.

BB misses an open Heath Miller... it's Haley's fault.

BB overthrows Wallace... it's Ike Taylor's fault.

If you disagree, then the "Yinzer" and "stupid-ass" and "you can't read" posts start coming out.

3. YOU are abolsutely right: we can & should criticize Big Ben when he is playing poorly. He is not above criticism. He makes a bad throw... we can say it was a bad throw.

That said, I still aver that the dude is not physically "right."

This team was 6-3 & rolling before he got injured. They went 1-2 in his absence, and he has lost three straight since his return... because, I think that his injury is hampering him more than he is letting on. The look looks like he is "forcing" his body to play through pain and/or discomfort ("forcing" because he does NOT look right).

People cash try to say "toughen up", but throwing is such an exact thing, that the slightest of hinderances (like a dislocated rib) can mess up one's mechanics just enough to create the errant throws that we've been seeing.

6-3 prior to the injury.
Looks like crap when he returns.

Using my deductive reasoning, I'd say that BB's injury has a LOT to do with the last six games (three while out, three via him forcing himself to play through pain).

Darkstorm05
12-24-2012, 10:36 AM
There's a lot of factors at work here, IMO. First, I feel the deep ball began to come of the table when Wallace began dropping them, or watching them get intercepted. So those plays get scaled back, and Wallace starts to have his fits and quitting on plays, and now he's only drawing coverage if he goes deep, and a safety just hangs back to deal with him.

So Wallace is no longer a factor, about this time teams start stuffing the center of the field and the run game shuts down. We're unable to run outside with any effectiveness, so the short pass is all we've got, and they play tight on Brown and Sanders. We see a few fumbles there, and it really starts to unravel.

Getting frustrated, the WR corps gets sloppy, execution sucks, and now Ben is forcing throws just trying to move the ball. Losses follow, finger pointing, ranting to the media, etc.. Sure, they started limiting plays, but what choice did they have? If someone was within 5 yards of Wallace he either didn't make the catch, or let it get picked. The run game shut down after, so what choice was there at that point?

When the offense is making so many poor execution mistakes, no coach is going to give them more leash. It just isn't going to happen.

Ricco Suavez
12-24-2012, 11:54 AM
Not prior to 2008. He has been pretty clutch from the beginning (except the 05 SB) up until the 2010 SB loss. Before that SB he was magnificent, some where saying possibly the most clutch QB of all time, but since that SB loss he has failed every attempt he has had. I too am losing quite a bit of confidence. This year he did more then just not winning the game at the end, 3 times he sealed the deal for the opponent (Denver, Dallas, today).

I may be wrong (will not be first time) but I believe after the 2008 season, we had the collapse of 2009. That year the Defense cost the Steelers several wins with 4th quarter meltdowns. I also think Ben had at least 3 Comebacks negated that year. I read somewhere that even as good as our defense has been for years the defense has cost Ben 20 more Comebacks with late scores by the opposition.

Ricco Suavez
12-24-2012, 12:00 PM
Someone mentioned that our WR are not getting open, I for one noticed that the Bengal DB were playing tight and our Wr got no separation. They seem to struggle getting off the line when played this way. A lot went wrong this year, injuries, penalities, turnovers, and up to yesterday a lack of creating TOs. Last years team suffered from pretty much the same, but last year it was Arians fault. Not the blame has to fall somewhere, so now its Ben, Haley, and/or Tomlin.

StainlessStill
12-24-2012, 12:02 PM
I really don't give a shit. Give me Ben over ANY in the league. This entire offense was bailed out by Ben 100X fucking over all season. The offense got so inconsistent that Ben needed to play on pins and needles. 1 mistake cost them the game because nobody ever elevated their play around him (Heath Miller excluded!)

How did everybody respond from their QB returning against S.D? By getting him fuckin KILLED and dropping pass after pass downfield. All you Ben haters make me sick to my goddamn stomach. Yes, the past 2 he threw the bad interception but trust me, this team was done all the way back in September when we couldn't stop Matt fucking Hasselback or Carson Palmer in the 4th QRT!!!!

Danny136200
12-24-2012, 12:41 PM
disagree. the defense was a no show vs denver and dallas this year and ben was having very good success. when he had the ball with the chance to win or OT he turned the ball over.

same in super bowl 45 for that matter.

when was he handcuffed? example?

Well, you cannot win all close games (we lost five by three this year). And the last two weeks, he did throw the game away, but he is still clutch (look at @giants, and against the Eagles, the two best examples this year). I do believe that he has not recovered from his injury and that is affecting him, but most people will disagree with me.

Millers the sh!t
12-24-2012, 01:13 PM
Ben wasn't handcuffed at all buddy. Some of you people dig deep and still cone up with pathetic excuses as.yo why your god couldn't put up more than 6 points against an average team.

Ben can't hit anyone in stride, he's too stupid to read defenses, his ability to properly throw the ball when a WR makes his cut to create seperation from a DB is at a minimal. Yesterday's game Ben wouldn't even wait 2 seconds.before scrambling to play backyard football. And it wasn't because he was under pressure. It was because he either lacks confidence in threading the needle or he is too dumb to process what's going on and can't hit a receiver unless he's wide open. The first half of the season I was snappy with Ben's transformation cause he was starting to show everything I thought he was incapable of doing. But starting the week before the Giants game I noticed Ben was changing back to his old tendencies. Forcing th ball, holding. on to the ball, ditching the quick passes, and making bad decisions. I think Ben's play of the second half of the season was 30% of why we failed this season. I honestly think that Batch would have had more productive game than Ben yesterday. Ben surely needs.to work on the mental aspects of the game because In A season or two his physical magic will be gone. Benhas had some memorable clutch moments throughout his career but he has many more failures than victories. I don't have faith in Ben anymore, and I haven't for 4 seAsons when it cones down to him scoring on a last minute drive. Out team has way to much talent for us to be losing games by 6 points or less 3 times a season every season. Especially against the bottom feeder teams that We should be putting away before halftime. Tomlin needs to get his fucking shit together and get this team polished up again. The league don't fear us, and they haven't since 2007/08. It's been said here a thousand times but it is absolutely 100% true. Tomlin was handed the best team in the NFL and every season we are doing worst and worst. The ONLY thing keeping this team competitive is Dick Lebeaus defense. I am praying and you all should be too that this legend does not retire or leave our organization. Once our defense becomes average or less than average we will be a perennial .500 team at best until we have a competent head coach, or a non selfish true team player QB that is cerebral enough to read defenses and release the ball the moment the receiver is breaking so the receiver can catch in stride and maximize the yardage every play. Bens inability to read defenses and release the ball correctly is the reason why our o line is consistently rattled with injuries. Play after play of extended blocking and consistently switching directions to keep up with and protect Ben, results in tired, and physically and mentally stressed men that dramatically raises the risk of injury and poor o line play that can't even open holes for a RB. As exciting as Ben is to watch and as much grit Ben has that makes him a true tough steeler that we all love, I strongly feel Bens hurting the team as much as he helps it. in order for Ben to stay competitive and not fade out into retirement he Really has to work on his mental aspects of being a quarterback in the NFL. Maybe when Peyton is done playing in the superbowl this year, Ben can spend the off-season learning with greatness to see if some of that motivation and discipline rubs off into Ben and helps make him a better qb for the last third of Ben's career.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
12-24-2012, 02:09 PM
Peyton Manning greatness? maybe in the regular season...

Peyton is not the same Peyton when it comes to playoff time he chokes every year, and Ben was doing fine early this year, it just wasn't our year. Ben > Peyton

Anybody who wants to hate on Ben just jump on another team's bandwagon, cause he'll be here until he retires.

Millers the sh!t
12-24-2012, 02:44 PM
9lPeyton Manning greatness? maybe in the regular season...

Peyton is not the same Peyton when it comes to playoff time he chokes every year, and Ben was doing fine early this year, it just wasn't our year. Ben > Peyton

Anybody who wants to hate on Ben just jump on another team's bandwagon, cause he'll be here until he retires.

Ben > Peyton...... Lol! You are a fool. Congrats, you have written The most incorrect post I've ever read on this site.

Peyton never had a defense to bail him out if he couldn't carry the game on his own shoulders like hes been doing EVERY game his whole career. now that he has a defense watch out. Peyton dont need to extend plays with his legs because he is intelligent and reads defenses like a OC and gets rid of the ball exactly where it needs to be,
when it needs to be there. The man takes a season off from playing, re strengthens his damaged nerves, learns to get in sync with a new unit of receivers and is still deservedly going to the pro bowl, a TRUE NOMINEE for MVP and comeback player of the year. Let me repeat myself, You are a fool.

Only reason why Ben was in the pro bowl last season was because Peyton wasn't playing from injury.

Wanna talk about playing well in the playoffs? If Van Olhoffen didn't injure Palmer playing against us, we probably wouldn't even made it to the big game. Speaking of which, Go rewatch the Seahawks superbowl. Ben was embarrassing as a qb and weather you like it or not, was totally bailed out by the officials that game. Ben blew the superbowl against the packers too. Ben played desperate and like shit against the Broncos last session ad well.

If lebeau retires, wait and see Ben's win %, and below average td. Passes per season plummet, and when we are down 14 points at the end of the first quarter every week, watch Bens desperation, and lack of discipline get the best of him again. Int, punt punt, int, punt punt. Seriously. We will be in trouble if we lose our biggest strength.... Dick Lebeau. Ben better smarten up, and stop blaming Haley cause Ben's stuck in the past and doesn't want to learn and push himself to remain competitive....

GoFor7
12-24-2012, 02:47 PM
9l

Ben > Peyton...... Lol! You are a fool. Congrats, you have written The most incorrect post I've ever read on this site.

Peyton never had a defense to bail him out if he couldn't carry the game on his own shoulders like hes been doing EVERY game his whole career. now that he has a defense watch out. Peyton dont need to extend plays with his legs because he is intelligent and reads defenses like a OC and gets rid of the ball exactly where it needs to be,
when it needs to be there. The man takes a season off from playing, re strengthens his damaged nerves, learns to get in sync with a new unit of receivers and is still deservedly going to the pro bowl, a TRUE NOMINEE for MVP and comeback player of the year. Let me repeat myself, You are a fool.

Only reason why Ben was in the pro bowl last season was because Peyton wasn't playing from injury.

Wanna talk about playing well in the playoffs? If Van Olhoffen didn't injure Palmer playing against us, we probably wouldn't even made it to the big game. Speaking of which, Go rewatch the Seahawks superbowl. Ben was embarrassing as a qb and weather you like it or not, was totally bailed out by the officials that game. Ben blew the superbowl against the packers too. Ben played desperate and like shit against the Broncos last session ad well.

If lebeau retires, wait and see Ben's win %, and below average td. Passes per season plummet, and when we are down 14 points at the end of the first quarter every week, watch Bens desperation, and lack of discipline get the best of him again. Int, punt punt, int, punt punt. Seriously. We will be in trouble if we lose our biggest strength.... Dick Lebeau. Ben better smarten up, and stop blaming Haley cause Ben's stuck in the past and doesn't want to learn and push himself to remain competitive....

That almost sounds like wishful thinking.

steelerchad
12-24-2012, 02:50 PM
Ben plain old sucked since the KC game. He was having a great year and that game along with the injury ended the momentum. I'm in his corner and have faith that he'll come back strong next year, but he cost us big time in our last 2 "must win" games. Big picks in our end late in a close game will get you beat quick and it did. Those are spots where top 5 franchise QB's get you over the hump and he didn't. Plain and simple. The defense was great yesterday and we didn't get it done on offense. That's on the QB. He was weak yesterday. He took sacks he didn't need to take. He missed throws that were open. Then he made the fatal error at the end.

Millers the sh!t
12-24-2012, 02:58 PM
That almost sounds like wishful thinking.

Only thing I wish for is that Ben grows up, genuinely takes responsibility, studies and practices his butt off to go to his next skill level. I wish that Manning wins the super bowl this year, and I wish that mike tomlin gains a set of balls, loses his heart and makes ruthless but necessary decisions to improve the team. I hope tomlin pushes all of our men so we don't give away 4 easy win games next season. I wish that we dominate average and sub average teams like a great team is supposed to. I wish that board members like you cab read criticism for once and accept that the majority of it is true, and not try to attack the poster cause he or she ain't a blind fan boy who can't admit that our team, is on the downside and changes must be made now before our team is in a full recession that will take a full decade of 8-8 seasons to recover from.

I also with you a merry X-Mas. Enjoy watching the Ravens in the playoffs again this seAson and not us, cause our team can't do wrong and are 100% perfect, starting from the grounds crew and all the way up to ownership.

GoFor7
12-24-2012, 03:17 PM
Only thing I wish for is that Ben grows up, genuinely takes responsibility, studies and practices his butt off to go to his next skill level. I wish that Manning wins the super bowl this year, and I wish that mike tomlin gains a set of balls, loses his heart and makes ruthless but necessary decisions to improve the team. I hope tomlin pushes all of our men so we don't give away 4 easy win games next season. I wish that we dominate average and sub average teams like a great team is supposed to. I wish that board members like you cab read criticism for once and accept that the majority of it is true, and not try to attack the poster cause he or she ain't a blind fan boy who can't admit that our team, is on the downside and changes must be made now before our team is in a full recession that will take a full decade of 8-8 seasons to recover from.

I also with you a merry X-Mas. Enjoy watching the Ravens in the playoffs again this seAson and not us, cause our team can't do wrong and are 100% perfect, starting from the grounds crew and all the way up to ownership.

Sorry, but a few bad throws don't make Ben the problem with this team, no matter how badly you want him to be the problem.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
12-24-2012, 07:04 PM
9l

Ben > Peyton...... Lol! You are a fool. Congrats, you have written The most incorrect post I've ever read on this site.

Peyton never had a defense to bail him out if he couldn't carry the game on his own shoulders like hes been doing EVERY game his whole career. now that he has a defense watch out. Peyton dont need to extend plays with his legs because he is intelligent and reads defenses like a OC and gets rid of the ball exactly where it needs to be,
when it needs to be there. The man takes a season off from playing, re strengthens his damaged nerves, learns to get in sync with a new unit of receivers and is still deservedly going to the pro bowl, a TRUE NOMINEE for MVP and comeback player of the year. Let me repeat myself, You are a fool.

Only reason why Ben was in the pro bowl last season was because Peyton wasn't playing from injury.

Wanna talk about playing well in the playoffs? If Van Olhoffen didn't injure Palmer playing against us, we probably wouldn't even made it to the big game. Speaking of which, Go rewatch the Seahawks superbowl. Ben was embarrassing as a qb and weather you like it or not, was totally bailed out by the officials that game. Ben blew the superbowl against the packers too. Ben played desperate and like shit against the Broncos last session ad well.

If lebeau retires, wait and see Ben's win %, and below average td. Passes per season plummet, and when we are down 14 points at the end of the first quarter every week, watch Bens desperation, and lack of discipline get the best of him again. Int, punt punt, int, punt punt. Seriously. We will be in trouble if we lose our biggest strength.... Dick Lebeau. Ben better smarten up, and stop blaming Haley cause Ben's stuck in the past and doesn't want to learn and push himself to remain competitive....

Let me ask you this has Peyton ever had to play behind a line that Ben has? um No. Has Ben every had WRs like Peyton had(has)? No. (two can play this game)

and Peyton is only a regular season QB & be quiet about the defense bails out Ben yeah he has his games but there is alot of games where he had to bail out the defense & wasn't Ben a MVP candidate before he got hurt? I believe so, & btw Peyton has always choked in the playoffs look at his 4th quarter play from over the years its not that good(who cares if its all on his shoulder if he is so great):coffee:

Tbh Haley is the problem our offense is to predictable 1st down run, 2nd down run, 3rd down pass...like really? cmon

Millers the sh!t
12-24-2012, 08:40 PM
Sorry, but a few bad throws don't make Ben the problem with this team, no matter how badly you want him to be the problem.

I didn't say he was the ONLY problem. Mike tomlins shitty coaching. In game and preparedness. All of our young players on offense lack discipline. Besides Ben, None of the cowher players lack discipline cause they were coached the correct way during their time with cowher and it is hard wired into their brains to play like professionals. Having said that, Ben got lazy during the Giants game... Then got worst as the season went on. Ben threw 3 interceptions during last minute drives to win us games. two of them being pick 6's might I add. That's three games he is personally responsible for losing. Bulkshit fumbles, dropped catches, penalties, and special teams block in the back penalties killed us every game this season. How ling does it take Tomlin to fix day one mistakes that's been going on for 3 seasons now. Between tomlins poor coaching, and Ben's laziness to improve himself, that is why we will be 8-8 at best this year. I guarantee we struggle next week to win against the browns...... I guarantee it...

Millers the sh!t
12-24-2012, 08:59 PM
Let me ask you this has Peyton ever had to play behind a line that Ben has? um No. Has Ben every had WRs like Peyton had(has)? No. (two can play this game)

and Peyton is only a regular season QB & be quiet about the defense bails out Ben yeah he has his games but there is alot of games where he had to bail out the defense & wasn't Ben a MVP candidate before he got hurt? I believe so, & btw Peyton has always choked in the playoffs look at his 4th quarter play from over the years its not that good(who cares if its all on his shoulder if he is so great):coffee:

Tbh Haley is the problem our offense is to predictable 1st down run, 2nd down run, 3rd down pass...like really? cmon

Blah blah blah blah, bens line blah blah blah. Peyton will never have issues with a line weather its good or not cause he knows how to manipulate a defense. Read blitzes and even better he knows how to throw a ball on target to a receiver who isn't running. Manning don't need 8 seconds every down to allow the players to forfeit their routes so they can scramble around to get WIDE open so Ben can hit the receiver. Don't you understand that? Ben ain't smart or good enough to throw a ball on time and on target to allow the play to unfold like its supposed to. I'm tired of hearing about the crying about the poor o line. It's not their fault Ben needs 7 seconds to find an open man. And open man for Peyton is 6 inches of seperation while moving. Ben don't have the skills to consistently throw completions like that. He is dumb and can't read defenses. That's why it takes him to 4 seconds on the play clock every down to hike the ball... He and you can blame Haley all you want, but Ben does have the ability to audible out of plays and into other ones. Rarely does it though cause he don't have the wits.

Yeah, like I posted in CAP LOCKS manning had a tumultuous off-season and is still a REAL CANDIDATE for MVP. In the eyes of fanboys like yourselves Ben may have been a."candidate" for MVP. You're a fool if you ever thought he would seriously be in the running. He throws half the amount of touchdowns as great qbs and the same if not more the amounts of Ints as average qbs. I must admit that Ben was on par for having his most efficient season and a possible legit pro bowl calibre season but he was never ever close to being a true MVP candidate.. You're a fool if you believed he was. He was playing the role of a game manager this season. Throw a td or maybe two every game, control the clock and limit turnovers. He did well for 6 games then his lazy ways took over and he turned Into shit.... Cost us 2 wins by making bad decisions and that costs us an appearance to the playoffs. MVP Baby!!!!!

P.S. Bens bailed out the defense ONE time in his career against the packers in 2009 I believe. Other than that..... He owes the defense 40+ game checks.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
12-24-2012, 10:37 PM
Blah blah blah blah, bens line blah blah blah. Peyton will never have issues with a line weather its good or not cause he knows how to manipulate a defense. Read blitzes and even better he knows how to throw a ball on target to a receiver who isn't running. Manning don't need 8 seconds every down to allow the players to forfeit their routes so they can scramble around to get WIDE open so Ben can hit the receiver. Don't you understand that? Ben ain't smart or good enough to throw a ball on time and on target to allow the play to unfold like its supposed to. I'm tired of hearing about the crying about the poor o line. It's not their fault Ben needs 7 seconds to find an open man. And open man for Peyton is 6 inches of seperation while moving. Ben don't have the skills to consistently throw completions like that. He is dumb and can't read defenses. That's why it takes him to 4 seconds on the play clock every down to hike the ball... He and you can blame Haley all you want, but Ben does have the ability to audible out of plays and into other ones. Rarely does it though cause he don't have the wits.

Yeah, like I posted in CAP LOCKS manning had a tumultuous off-season and is still a REAL CANDIDATE for MVP. In the eyes of fanboys like yourselves Ben may have been a."candidate" for MVP. You're a fool if you ever thought he would seriously be in the running. He throws half the amount of touchdowns as great qbs and the same if not more the amounts of Ints as average qbs. I must admit that Ben was on par for having his most efficient season and a possible legit pro bowl calibre season but he was never ever close to being a true MVP candidate.. You're a fool if you believed he was. He was playing the role of a game manager this season. Throw a td or maybe two every game, control the clock and limit turnovers. He did well for 6 games then his lazy ways took over and he turned Into shit.... Cost us 2 wins by making bad decisions and that costs us an appearance to the playoffs. MVP Baby!!!!!

P.S. Bens bailed out the defense ONE time in his career against the packers in 2009 I believe. Other than that..... He owes the defense 40+ game checks.

Saying Ben is not smart is beyond stupid, cause like I said he looked good before the injury and then he went downhill since he came back wonder why? maybe cause he has been running for his life since he got back, and just like any QB they would not be the same after missing a month of football, maybe he isn't fully healthy...who knows maybe you should jump on another teams bandwagon since Ben is dumb & cant win noting without his defense...

P:S Ben has bailed out the D plenty of times cause being clutch define's bailing out the D just saying

Stillers2012
12-24-2012, 11:09 PM
Don't blame Ben for the SB 45 loss. Blame Mendenhall. "Mr. It's only a game. I don't dwell on just one play." Mendenhall has no business playing for this team. It seems to mean nothing to him. In his first season he broke his shoulder early and needed Hines Ward to call him after a few games to start showing up. He felt he didn't need to be there if he wasn't playing. He also pulled the same stunt this year against S.D. Ben can only do so much and it's not like he gets Brady and Manning type protection from the officials.Take that protection from Brady and Manning and they are no better than above average.

Millers the sh!t
12-24-2012, 11:46 PM
He only [QUOTE=BLACK_AND_YELLOW;1069913]Saying Ben is not smart is beyond stupid, cause like I said he looked good before the injury and then he went downhill since he came back wonder why? maybe cause he has been running for his life since he got back, and just like any of the top QBs they would not be the same after missing a month of football, maybe he isn't fully healthy...who knows maybe you should jump on another teams bandwagon since Ben is dumb & cant win noting without his defense...

P:S Ben has bailed out the D plenty of times cause being clutch define's bailing out the D just saying[/QUOTE

Just cause I see things objectively, doesn't make me a bandwagon fan.

If Ben knew how to audible, get a hot read, or simply throw the ball to a receiver when he makes his break, he wouldn't be running for his life. Also, during the Cincinnati game, Ben starts "running for his life" 2 seconds before pressure even cones his way. He's been playing like shit recently and it was noticeable BEFORE he missed time from an Injury. Wake up and smell the coffee. Bens mentally and physically lazy, he got lazy after a quarter of the season and it showed in his play.

Give Ben a break cause he missed 3 weeks........ That's your excuse? P. Manning missed over a year, had multiple surgeries, started on a new team with a new receiving corpse and he's STILL A TOP 3 QB IN THE LEAGUE. Because he knows what hard work is, and he has heart and discipline. The only thing that Manning don't have that Ben does is an ego.

Your argument is pathetic and is a reach at best. Ben let us down this year. And it wasn't cause he got injured. It's cause he got lazy....

Sorry to let ya down but Ben ain't clutch... So there go's your theory. Clutch ain't throwing two pick sixes on last minute drives. Clutch ain't throwing an interception to the Bengals during a tied game with 20 seconds left on the clock. Maybe you should re check your definition of "clutch" .......just saying.

OX1947
12-25-2012, 12:01 AM
Big Ben has never been a top 3 QB. He is a top 10 QB who goes up and down the top 4 thru 10 depending on the week. He is too inconsistent, not really a hard worker and has accountability issues. Arians was the blame for years yet he might win coach of the year as a fill in. Play calls are only as good as their execution. Tomlin had major issues controlling his team.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
12-25-2012, 12:10 AM
He only [QUOTE=BLACK_AND_YELLOW;1069913]Saying Ben is not smart is beyond stupid, cause like I said he looked good before the injury and then he went downhill since he came back wonder why? maybe cause he has been running for his life since he got back, and just like any of the top QBs they would not be the same after missing a month of football, maybe he isn't fully healthy...who knows maybe you should jump on another teams bandwagon since Ben is dumb & cant win noting without his defense...

P:S Ben has bailed out the D plenty of times cause being clutch define's bailing out the D just saying[/QUOTE

Just cause I see things objectively, doesn't make me a bandwagon fan.

If Ben knew how to audible, get a hot read, or simply throw the ball to a receiver when he makes his break, he wouldn't be running for his life. Also, during the Cincinnati game, Ben starts "running for his life" 2 seconds before pressure even cones his way. He's been playing like shit recently and it was noticeable BEFORE he missed time from an Injury. Wake up and smell the coffee. Bens mentally and physically lazy, he got lazy after a quarter of the season and it showed in his play.

Give Ben a break cause he missed 3 weeks........ That's your excuse? P. Manning missed over a year, had multiple surgeries, started on a new team with a new receiving corpse and he's STILL A TOP 3 QB IN THE LEAGUE. Because he knows what hard work is, and he has heart and discipline. The only thing that Manning don't have that Ben does is an ego.

Your argument is pathetic and is a reach at best. Ben let us down this year. And it wasn't cause he got injured. It's cause he got lazy....

Sorry to let ya down but Ben ain't clutch... So there go's your theory. Clutch ain't throwing two pick sixes on last minute drives. Clutch ain't throwing an interception to the Bengals during a tied game with 20 seconds left on the clock. Maybe you should re check your definition of "clutch" .......just saying.

How long did it take until Peyton got going again?

Just because the man struggled does not mean he is lazy, and are you saying Ben has no heart?? really?? do you need a helment? you just proved that if anybodys argument is pathetic its yours i'll tell you that

Not clutch? 29 total Comebacks/game-winning drives...thats not clutch? ok yeah im done talking to you, since you hardly know what your talking about since you're all over Peytons jock.

JVip
12-25-2012, 12:57 AM
It seems to me that Ben needs to take football more serious. When was the last time you saw him looking at coverages on the sideline? He also created alot of friction with Haley that lead to this offense having no cohesion. Don't get me wrong there is plenty of blame to go around, but Ben should bear a good bit of it. He is the franchise qb throwing ints when we need points on the board. Our play calling has been terrible and the execution is even worse.

ZoneBlitzer
12-25-2012, 02:13 AM
Don't blame Ben for the SB 45 loss. Blame Mendenhall. "Mr. It's only a game. I don't dwell on just one play." Mendenhall has no business playing for this team. It seems to mean nothing to him. In his first season he broke his shoulder early and needed Hines Ward to call him after a few games to start showing up. He felt he didn't need to be there if he wasn't playing. He also pulled the same stunt this year against S.D. Ben can only do so much and it's not like he gets Brady and Manning type protection from the officials.Take that protection from Brady and Manning and they are no better than above average.

I believe that he threw 2 interceptions in that game, one for a pick six from his own end zone. Even Harrison called Ben out. That's when the magic began to fade. He hasn't been as clutch since. I hope he can clear his head and get it back.

Millers the sh!t
12-25-2012, 05:23 AM
[QUOTE=Millers the sh!t;1069938]He only

How long did it take until Peyton got going again?

Just because the man struggled does not mean he is lazy, and are you saying Ben has no heart?? really?? do you need a helment? you just proved that if anybodys argument is pathetic its yours i'll tell you that

Not clutch? 29 total Comebacks/game-winning drives...thats not clutch? ok yeah im done talking to you, since you hardly know what your talking about since you're all over Peytons jock.

It took all the way up to week one for Peyton to get going again. He out performed Mr clutch big Ben that week too.... Big time. BTW how did that game end? Oh yeah, Mr clutch Big Ben threw a pick six to seal the game.

There's a thin line between having heart and being stupid. Playing injured and hurting the team cause you can't perform close to your potential is stupid and not having heart.

Having heart is admitting you have a weakness and working endlessly to change your stupid ways cause it's hurting the team.

And just so you know... A "game winning drive or comeback" only means that ur team was down by a point or more during a game and you still won the game. So, if the opposing team got the ball first and scored a fg on their oppening drive, and Big Ben OR THE RUNNINGBACK scored a TD at some point during the rest of the 55 minutes of the game and we won..... That counts and is marked in the stat books as a "comeback win and/or game winning drive.". That is hardly clutch. To me, Clutch is winning a game when you're down, during the last possible drive of the game which Ben has done two times in his career that I can remember. Just In the last 4 years alone, I've seen Ben fail miserably more that 15 times in That same predicament...

One last thing hot shot...Great qb's like Peyton don't have to worry about being clutch, cause they rarely ever put their team into position where they HAVE to score on their last possession to win. Great qb's always have their team in the lead and leave the pressure of catching up to less superior qb's.

Get a clue bro' Youre terrible at making a case for yourself..... Absolutely terrible.

Rick5895
12-25-2012, 07:44 AM
I'll say it again as Ive said it a few times over the last couple of years, Ben is the right QB for this team. He had a difficult year. The whole team had one of those years. The biggest problem with this team is the lack of leadership we have. I am sure that will change over the off season and next training camp.
We lost Hines, Farrior and Smith. Those are 3 guys that are tough to replace . You can bet your ass the WR's wouldn't have had the problems they had with Hines still here, Farrior was a great TEAM leader. Those guys were replaced on the field but NOT at the leadership level. Until we find leaders of that quality this team will struggle. I noticed some guys starting towards the end to gain that characteristic. Guys like Cark, but I also didn't think anyone stepped up on the offense to carry on for Hines. Hopefully an off season of reflection of a season lost will "help" someone step up to the pulpit on the offense. Hopefully it's Ben, but Maurice would be nice too.

teegre
12-25-2012, 08:51 AM
I'll say it again as Ive said it a few times over the last couple of years, Ben is the right QB for this team. He had a difficult year. The whole team had one of those years. The biggest problem with this team is the lack of leadership we have. I am sure that will change over the off season and next training camp.
We lost Hines, Farrior and Smith. Those are 3 guys that are tough to replace . You can bet your ass the WR's wouldn't have had the problems they had with Hines still here, Farrior was a great TEAM leader. Those guys were replaced on the field but NOT at the leadership level. Until we find leaders of that quality this team will struggle. I noticed some guys starting towards the end to gain that characteristic. Guys like Cark, but I also didn't think anyone stepped up on the offense to carry on for Hines. Hopefully an off season of reflection of a season lost will "help" someone step up to the pulpit on the offense. Hopefully it's Ben, but Maurice would be nice too.

^^That was a great post.^^

Millers the sh!t
12-25-2012, 09:18 AM
I'll say it again as Ive said it a few times over the last couple of years, Ben is the right QB for this team. He had a difficult year. The whole team had one of those years. The biggest problem with this team is the lack of leadership we have. I am sure that will change over the off season and next training camp.
We lost Hines, Farrior and Smith. Those are 3 guys that are tough to replace . You can bet your ass the WR's wouldn't have had the problems they had with Hines still here, Farrior was a great TEAM leader. Those guys were replaced on the field but NOT at the leadership level. Until we find leaders of that quality this team will struggle. I noticed some guys starting towards the end to gain that characteristic. Guys like Cark, but I also didn't think anyone stepped up on the offense to carry on for Hines. Hopefully an off season of reflection of a season lost will "help" someone step up to the pulpit on the offense. Hopefully it's Ben, but Maurice would be nice too.

That sounds great and all but the only thing I foresee happening is more veterans being let go this off-season lowering the chance of having a leader or any influence in the locker room to motivate our young guys to become great. Clark is a beast and in terms of being a leader, I respect him the most and believe he is the man for the job. Troy too quiet, Harrison, too real, he likes to do his motivating on the field, not with his words. Kiesel, too much of a clown etc etc. Clark is intelligent, speaks with authority but calm, plays his heart out every down and is one of my favorite players in the black and gold. The problem is though Rick, we need an offensive leader. I don't think Ben is the right man for the job. I'd say Heath is qualified but he's too quiet and humble. maybe we cab get one of the tough guys on the o line, like Starks or The Colon, etc. If not then I feel Tomlin has to fill the role or have Veterans come in hang with the player's during practice for a few days out of the week and challenge these unmotivated and underperfm

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
12-25-2012, 09:45 AM
[QUOTE=BLACK_AND_YELLOW;1069944]

It took all the way up to week one for Peyton to get going again. He out performed Mr clutch big Ben that week too.... Big time. BTW how did that game end? Oh yeah, Mr clutch Big Ben threw a pick six to seal the game.

There's a thin line between having heart and being stupid. Playing injured and hurting the team cause you can't perform close to your potential is stupid and not having heart.

Having heart is admitting you have a weakness and working endlessly to change your stupid ways cause it's hurting the team.
And just so you know... A "game winning drive or comeback" only means that ur team was down by a point or more during a game and you still won the game. So, if the opposing team got the ball first and scored a fg on their oppening drive, and Big Ben OR THE RUNNINGBACK scored a TD at some point during the rest of the 55 minutes of the game and we won..... That counts and is marked in the stat books as a "comeback win and/or game winning drive.". That is hardly clutch. To me, Clutch is winning a game when you're down, during the last possible drive of the game which Ben has done two times in his career that I can remember. Just In the last 4 years alone, I've seen Ben fail miserably more that 15 times in That same predicament...

One last thing hot shot...Great qb's like Peyton don't have to worry about being clutch, cause they rarely ever put their team into position where they HAVE to score on their last possession to win. Great qb's always have their team in the lead and leave the pressure of catching up to less superior qb's.

Get a clue bro' Youre terrible at making a case for yourself..... Absolutely terrible.

you're hard headed as fuck, he is not perfect nobody is but he is still on of the clutchest QBs in the game

not making a case for myself? I just basically said Ben knows how to get it done in big games not like Peyton has, idgaf if he has 4 mvps and wins another one but if you dont win a ring it dont mean shit. Is peyton one of the best? umm duh no shit but clearly he is not the same player when he goes to the playoffs, not like Ben he usually makes the plays that gets us the win.

He had two bad games but does that mean he is going to suck in the future also? no.

And being able to clutch is everything, shit it means everything in every sport, btw didn't Peyton choke in the Super bowl cause he couldn't clutch under that type of pressure? :coffee:

Rick5895
12-25-2012, 11:05 AM
That sounds great and all but the only thing I foresee happening is more veterans being let go this off-season lowering the chance of having a leader or any influence in the locker room to motivate our young guys to become great. Clark is a beast and in terms of being a leader, I respect him the most and believe he is the man for the job. Troy too quiet, Harrison, too real, he likes to do his motivating on the field, not with his words. Kiesel, too much of a clown etc etc. Clark is intelligent, speaks with authority but calm, plays his heart out every down and is one of my favorite players in the black and gold. The problem is though Rick, we need an offensive leader. I don't think Ben is the right man for the job. I'd say Heath is qualified but he's too quiet and humble. maybe we cab get one of the tough guys on the o line, like Starks or The Colon, etc. If not then I feel Tomlin has to fill the role or have Veterans come in hang with the player's during practice for a few days out of the week and challenge these unmotivated and underperfm

I agree. That's why I say hopefully Ben steps up. Anyway merry christmas