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Steelers5895
12-23-2012, 10:09 PM
I am big believer in Mike Tomlin.

He has gotten us to two super bowls and won one. can't remove that from his resume. You can say it was Cowher's team BUT lets not forget Cowhers early success was from Chuck Noll draft classes. Once Cowhers players were replacing the ones from Noll, we went through a tough spell (1998-2000).

I think the same with Tomlin. The thing is, Tomlin is in a tough spot. Dick Lebeau's defense is no longer dominant. it doesnt make big plays, get pressure or turnovers. It has blown more leads then held in the last 3 seasons. We need a fresh, new defense BUT that would mean having to clean house and get players who fit the new scheme. Doing that means giving up a year of success while in transition.

Or, stay with Lebeau and keep the older, under producing players because it is such a complicated scheme that if you try and bring in younger players you will also give up a year in transition.

On offense, he was told to bring in Haley. He said all the right things but that wasnt his hire.

As for game decisions. I dont see many head scratching decisions. He challenges too quickly on plays the team should be able to overcome but his logic behind his decisions at his press conferences make sense. Just like the FG attempt today. Suisham has been hot and I was ok with the risk.

As for personnel. he drafted wallace, brown, sanders, pouncey, cortez allen, timmons, woodley, mendy, curtis brown and many other contributors.

The one thing i dont see that I would like to see more of is some of his ex players coming to Pitt. Only mewelde moore so far. I hope that changes and Percy Harvin is a Steeler in 2013.

I like Tomlin and he is here to stay and I am fine with that.

casteeler
12-23-2012, 10:14 PM
You can look foward to a few more years of missing the playoffs if you think Tomlin is the head coach for this team

Blackout
12-23-2012, 10:16 PM
I wouldn't fire Tomlin over one bad season, a few more consecutive ones then we'll talk.

Hate to be in his shoes right now, especially in a meeting with the Rooneys. He's gotta have the worst gig in the NFL to meet fan and owner expectations.

I have no issues with the draft picks, I think Colbert has done an excellent job IMO. But Tomlin is a player's coach, not someone you see giving discipline out to the vets.

We'll see what happens next season.

Steelers5895
12-23-2012, 10:22 PM
You can look foward to a few more years of missing the playoffs if you think Tomlin is the head coach for this team

why is that? what do you see?

ZoneBlitzer
12-23-2012, 10:22 PM
Sorry I'm just not drinking the kool-aid. I've never really embraced him. Cowher developed a winning formula. His one weakness was the QB. As soon as he gets one, he retires. A professional mistake IMO.

jiminpa
12-23-2012, 10:24 PM
Sorry I'm just not drinking the kool-aid. I've never really embraced him. Cowher developed a winning formula. His one weakness was the QB. As soon as he gets one, he retires. A professional mistake IMO.His wife in the process of dying of cancer may have had something to do with the decision to retire from coaching, in which case it was a great decision.

SteelersCanada
12-23-2012, 10:24 PM
You can look foward to a few more years of missing the playoffs if you think Tomlin is the head coach for this team

Based on what? Please tell me, football guru on what evidence you're going to use to back this statement. I'd love to hear it, but for some reason, I think you're just spouting off bullshit.

So, spouting off bullshit or backing a very, very bold statement with evidence. I wonder which is more likely.

Steelers5895
12-23-2012, 10:26 PM
Sorry I'm just not drinking the kool-aid. I've never really embraced him. Cowher developed a winning formula. His one weakness was the QB. As soon as he gets one, he retires. A professional mistake IMO.

see i felt that way about cowher. rode nolls players to early success. those players left and he was left with his players and we went down hill fast. He gets ben and wins a super bowl with an inferior team,misses playoffs then retires.

Tomlin takes those same players and makes the playoffs then wins a super bowl.

Cowher was able to come in and pick his coaches and was allowed to make a move like cutting huey richardson.

Tomlin seems to be restricted.

PhantomJB93
12-23-2012, 10:26 PM
People keep saying he lives off Cowher's players. I think a lot of people forget Cowher had his run of failure as well and several of those same players were a result of drafting early (Hampton and Polamalu) while others being credited to Cowher never developed into great players until Tomlin came around (Harrison, Clark, Keisel). Tomlin hasn't had the benefit of drafting early and the only time he has, I'd say he knocked it out of the park (Pouncey).

I really can't believe Tomlin gets as much hate as he does. He's to blame for some of the suckfest that happened this year but so is the lack of effort and focus by seveal of the players, and not to mention the injuries, and it's not like firing him is going to magically bring in the perfect coach and everything is going to be great again. Tomlin is a top-7, probably a top-5 coach, and the reason we are one of the top consistent, successful franchises is that we don't give up on our players and coaches the second one bad season comes around. Other teams fire their coaches and trade their players when that happens, and it sets them back years as a result. That's what losing teams do and it's what fairweather fans want. It's not the Steeler way.

lardlad
12-23-2012, 10:27 PM
Sorry I'm just not drinking the kool-aid. I've never really embraced him. Cowher developed a winning formula. His one weakness was the QB. As soon as he gets one, he retires. A professional mistake IMO.

Well that and his wife getting cancer.

casteeler
12-23-2012, 10:30 PM
why is that? what do you see?

He has lost the respect of the locker room. This team has been on a downward spiral and Tomlin hasn't had the answer even with a hell of a talented roster.Every team has a bad year but this started a while ago

GoFor7
12-23-2012, 10:31 PM
Another thing with Cowher is, while he was a player's coach at times, he knew when to be the bad guy and haul ass. The players feared screwing up because they knew he'd glare at them, stick that big chin out, and get a bunch of spit in their faces.

Tomlin has drafted talented players, but they lack humility. They act like they've won something when they've never even come close. They don't seem to fear screwing up, and they don't feel stupid dancing after every routine catch for a first down. Complete lack of focus.

lardlad
12-23-2012, 10:32 PM
It is a bad season, Tomlin should be accountable but yanking him out is probably not going to fix anything. I like Tomlin, he's not as bad as many people are making him out to be. His team constantly gave up the ball this year and made so many mistakes. If you chalk it up to discipline, yes point a finger. But if the offense takes care of the all this year we have 10 wins easy, and no one is talking about Tomlin.

jiminpa
12-23-2012, 10:33 PM
Tomlin has not improved one single area of the team since he got here. The Rooneys had to step in and force an OC upgrade, and it looks like it will take that with the special teams as well. How long will they put up with his insubordination with the running game. The team has one decent running back and as soon as he started to get healthy Tomlin benched him, and then suspended him.

Blackout
12-23-2012, 10:33 PM
Sorry I'm just not drinking the kool-aid. I've never really embraced him. Cowher developed a winning formula. His one weakness was the QB. As soon as he gets one, he retires. A professional mistake IMO.

98-00 no show in the playoffs. Then 03 and 06.

People need to stop getting so nostalgic over Cowher.

Steelers5895
12-23-2012, 10:34 PM
I think one of Tomlin's strengths is player development. Look at some of the players he developed that were mid round picks or later. Players like Keenan Lewis, Curtis Brown, Woodley, Brown, Wallace, sanders and you will see upside for Dwyer, Rainey, DEcastro, Adams and Spence.

His weekness is getting his team focused, at least this year. Too many dumb penalties and turnovers. especially at crucial times which I do blame on coaching.

Look at 2 killer plays in Super Bowl 45. The Mendy fumble and the kick off personal foul by Kenyan Fox after a good return for a final drive.

that is coaching and that he needs to work on.

Steelers5895
12-23-2012, 10:40 PM
Tomlin has not improved one single area of the team since he got here. The Rooneys had to step in and force an OC upgrade, and it looks like it will take that with the special teams as well. How long will they put up with his insubordination with the running game. The team has one decent running back and as soon as he started to get healthy Tomlin benched him, and then suspended him.

I am not sure what you are watching. i will give you one example. He brought in Carnell Lake and our young dbs played great. Great without a pass rush all year.

Our O- LIne played well this year even with injuries.

as for Mendy, he fumbled twice in a crucial game with a third string qb that cant happen and he was benched. his suspension was for insubordination for not attending a game. mendy cost us a bunch of games to include super bowl 45 with fumbles.

as for the other runners, he took 2 no names and made them productive running backs. redman carried us vs giants and dwyer had a big 3 game streak.

ZoneBlitzer
12-24-2012, 12:23 AM
98-00 no show in the playoffs. Then 03 and 06.

People need to stop getting so nostalgic over Cowher.

I'm sorry. I'm miss the big chin and the spitting. He was a great character on the sideline. He was always a visual barometer for how the team was doing.

Tomlin often looks stunned like a deer in the headlights.

lloydwoodson
12-24-2012, 12:40 AM
Tomlin is getting a bad rap. The problem is fans overrating the players on the offense. James Harrison said it best last year- Ben isn`t Manning or Brady he just gets paid like them. This offense will never be a 30 ppg offense with Ben- especially when his WRs have given him very little help.

The defense held the Bengals to 6 points. A monkey throwing darts at the offensive playbook to decide calls should have resulted in a win.

Statistically, the offense has looked almost identical from this year to last year and so did the defense.

Could have been a 12-4 team that ended 8-8 at best. That`s life.

Steelers will be back hungry next year. :tt:

Let`s hope the training staff isn`t back.

GoFor7
12-24-2012, 12:45 AM
98-00 no show in the playoffs. Then 03 and 06.

People need to stop getting so nostalgic over Cowher.

Cowher had his shortcomings to be sure. Too often lost the big games in the 90's. But still, those teams didn't lack humility or act like clown shoes.

ZoneBlitzer
12-24-2012, 12:52 AM
Let`s hope the training staff isn`t back.

Can't blame the training staff if the players aren't willing to put in the work.

SteelBobbleHead
12-24-2012, 01:20 AM
Tomlin's best attribute is he hires well and then he allows those coaches to develop players. The head coaches job is to dictate the direction of the game plan and to hold players accountable. I'm not sure you can blame a coach for players not being emotionally up for a game, that falls on the leaders in the locker room and the players themselves. I would like to see Tomlin improve on some of his in game desicions but he gets a pass from me for this year. One bad season does not make him a bad coach nor does he deserve to be fired for a bad season. If the discipline of his team doesn't improve over the course of next year then that changes.

therocksteeler
12-24-2012, 02:55 AM
I don't believe Tomlin has had only one bad season as stated above. I believe he has had a few bad seasons. Also I have yet to see any one or group of players in which he has drafted, hired in to be that lead, that franchise guy-the go to guy-. I have seen Mike acquire players that are not what we need at the time. How many years of us scratching our heads at draft day on poor choices and/or during a game can you set your watch on???? The fact is that each third down we are are going to pass, this is known even in the Canadian League, why? Why did we not say to ourselves before letting Bruce Arians go.....what made Bruce special that we hired him? He took chances his play calling worked to Ben strengths, developed leaders for goodness sake. If you hire on Payton Manning you dont have your OC calling in running plays or not use him for audibles. So why in the world are you trying to change a QB that has led your team to 2 SB's and countless playoffs due to HIS play. Not what pops out of a computer as the next step for our offense. Our defense has been amazing and deserves all the cuddos!! However, its time to move on to different looks and more progressive ideas.When Troy does not really show desire, like he has in the past. When Ben play calls are frustrating him and his performance is affected, we cannot convert. I can see low morale in each and every player. Someone needs to grab these guys by the face mask and get in their faces. The "thus's, Ums, Fors" in past game interviews have got to stop. Stop diverting !!!!! Our previous coach never did that ... he took the heat, and from the loss built leaders on our team. A football team comes from the heart/desire to win and then works it's way outward. Sorry for the rant ....

:drink:

TheVet
12-24-2012, 03:59 AM
To be fair to Cowher, his teams consistently overachieved given their talent level. Sure they lost some big games, but it was amazing that they got there. Tomlin's had a lot more to work with, and his teams have consistently underachieved.

Cowher also had issues - remember his insane infatuation with Kordell, which lasted several seasons after it became clear that he simply wasn't an NFL QB. But he was an A level coach. Tomlin is mediocre.

therocksteeler
12-24-2012, 04:13 AM
To be fair to Cowher, his teams consistently overachieved given their talent level. Sure they lost some big games, but it was amazing that they got there. Tomlin's had a lot more to work with, and his teams have consistently underachieved.

Cowher also had issues - remember his insane infatuation with Kordell, which lasted several seasons after it became clear that he simply wasn't an NFL QB. But he was an A level coach. Tomlin is mediocre.

Yes I agree , he did fix his attentions to Kordell instead of making moves to ensure a win. But he also designed a mind set within the team of give no ground only take it from them. Fundementals were key and were worked to perfect them. I guess you must look at the faults vs the gains to see who comes out on top. I simply can't tolerate someone to take credit for someone elses hard work and planning like they were involved with the entire process.

steelfury02
12-24-2012, 05:16 AM
the lack of leadership in general with this team is disturbing, and isn't something that can just be flipped on in the matter of 1 off season. Heath has been the only sure and steady guy on offense and has been that way since his rookie season. Its not like anyone has risen to the occasion to even be able to sound and talk like a leader, and in that position from sacrificing and rising to the occasion when things were bleak. Every person on that offense has folded when things looked bleak - I didn't see one person step into the forefront and take the reigns - not even our franchise QB. Its not like someone from WR can step up - they have no ground to stand on and will sound manufactured instead of coming from a place of experience. Extremely immature team, especially on offense.

sloppyjoe
12-24-2012, 11:01 AM
I wouldn't fire Tomlin over one bad season, a few more consecutive ones then we'll talk.

Hate to be in his shoes right now, especially in a meeting with the Rooneys. He's gotta have the worst gig in the NFL to meet fan and owner expectations.

I have no issues with the draft picks, I think Colbert has done an excellent job IMO. But Tomlin is a player's coach, not someone you see giving discipline out to the vets.

We'll see what happens next season.

gotta disagree. tomlin walked intio the best situation in football. stable organization, loaded with talent, best DC in football, great drafting organization, rooney rule, dont go thru HC willy nilly, huge fanbase, sold out stadiums forever. short of publicly humilating the rooney family, tomlins joib will be safe for numerous years even if he continues to take us down the crapper like he has been.

The_Joker
12-24-2012, 11:05 AM
God, this going to be a looooooooooooooong offseason....

Danny136200
12-24-2012, 11:32 AM
He has lost the respect of the locker room. This team has been on a downward spiral and Tomlin hasn't had the answer even with a hell of a talented roster.Every team has a bad year but this started a while ago

Are you Steelers player? Do you have inside access to the locker room? What do you base your wild accusations on? Is it just your demented beliefs about this coach?

And a downward spiral? when have we started a downward spiral? we are one year removed from a 12-4 season, did said downward spiral started then?

Is Tomlin perfect? not all, he had made some head scratching decisions this year, but that does not make him a bad coach, it just makes him human.

Tomlin has had a losing season during his first 6 years (this year has not finished yet. but i believe we will beat the browns.) has only missed the playoffs twice, and has had 3 12-4 seasons to boot. Oh yeah, he also won a super bowl and also took us to another one. he has a .625 winning percentage as a coach, but we are in a downward spiral?

He also has drafted well. Wallace, Bown, Sanders, Heyward, Gilbert, Allen, Pouncey, Worilds, Dwyer, Lewis, Woodley, ETC. Sure he has drafted some busts in the early rounds, but look at any other coaches' draft, and you will see busts all over the place.
(I did not put anybody on this years draft because it is too early to tell really.)

To say that Tomlin is not a good coach, not back it up with any facts or, hell, even valid opinions, is just plain dumb.

Danny136200
12-24-2012, 11:34 AM
gotta disagree. tomlin walked intio the best situation in football. stable organization, loaded with talent, best DC in football, great drafting organization, rooney rule, dont go thru HC willy nilly, huge fanbase, sold out stadiums forever. short of publicly humilating the rooney family, tomlins joib will be safe for numerous years even if he continues to take us down the crapper like he has been.

Just as Cowher's job was safe even though he had three consecutive years of missing the playoffs in the late 90s. I even think he got an extension after one of those years too.

casteeler
12-24-2012, 11:41 AM
Are you Steelers player? Do you have inside access to the locker room? What do you base your wild accusations on? Is it just your demented beliefs about this coach?

And a downward spiral? when have we started a downward spiral? we are one year removed from a 12-4 season, did said downward spiral started then?

Is Tomlin perfect? not all, he had made some head scratching decisions this year, but that does not make him a bad coach, it just makes him human.

Tomlin has had a losing season during his first 6 years (this year has not finished yet. but i believe we will beat the browns.) has only missed the playoffs twice, and has had 3 12-4 seasons to boot. Oh yeah, he also won a super bowl and also took us to another one. he has a .625 winning percentage as a coach, but we are in a downward spiral?

He also has drafted well. Wallace, Bown, Sanders, Heyward, Gilbert, Allen, Pouncey, Worilds, Dwyer, Lewis, Woodley, ETC. Sure he has drafted some busts in the early rounds, but look at any other coaches' draft, and you will see busts all over the place.
(I did not put anybody on this years draft because it is too early to tell really.)

To say that Tomlin is not a good coach, not back it up with any facts or, hell, even valid opinions, is just plain dumb.

Your right the team is progressing,now on to the playoffs

cowherpower
12-24-2012, 12:12 PM
I think one of Tomlin's strengths is player development. Look at some of the players he developed that were mid round picks or later. Players like Keenan Lewis, Curtis Brown, Woodley, Brown, Wallace, sanders and you will see upside for Dwyer, Rainey, DEcastro, Adams and Spence.

His weekness is getting his team focused, at least this year. Too many dumb penalties and turnovers. especially at crucial times which I do blame on coaching.

Look at 2 killer plays in Super Bowl 45. The Mendy fumble and the kick off personal foul by Kenyan Fox after a good return for a final drive.

that is coaching and that he needs to work on.

sorry but his drafts have been pretty bad Woodley, Wallace, DeCastro, Adam all early round picks. ONLY player picked late that worked out is Brown. None of the db are really any good. He has failed to draft and develop a single defensive back into a viable starter. I put blame on him because before he got here we had amazing drafts under Colbert. Despite for the most part drafting late in rounds we always got a difference maker in every draft. Not so much since 07.

Danny136200
12-24-2012, 12:18 PM
sorry but his drafts have been pretty bad Woodley, Wallace, DeCastro, Adam all early round picks. ONLY player picked late that worked out is Brown. None of the db are really any good. He has failed to draft and develop a single defensive back into a viable starter. I put blame on him because before he got here we had amazing drafts under Colbert. Despite for the most part drafting late in rounds we always got a difference maker in every draft. Not so much since 07.

Go ahead and take a look at the Patriots draft during that same period, and tell me if they have fared any better in the late rounds than the Steelers. And also, Keenan Lewis was drafted in 09', and has become a pretty solid NO.2 CB for us this year.

Danny136200
12-24-2012, 12:21 PM
Your right the team is progressing,now on to the playoffs

Did you say the same thing in 09? 06? 03? 00? Did you say the same thing back in the late 90s when Cowher had three straight years off missing the playoffs?

You do not have any valid arguments as to why Tomlin should be fired after one bad year.

harrison'samonster
12-24-2012, 12:21 PM
Decastro and Adams might pan out to be great picks, I'd give them some time. Woodley has been dissappointing this year, but he's not a bust or anything (funny that Timmons would have been used as an example as a bad pick instead of Woodley before this season). Lewis looks like he's could be something special.

And as for Wallace, I don't particularly have faith in him, but he was a pretty good pick. He's made great plays for us over his career so far and he's put up big numbers.

SH-Rock
12-24-2012, 12:22 PM
sorry but his drafts have been pretty bad Woodley, Wallace, DeCastro, Adam all early round picks. ONLY player picked late that worked out is Brown. None of the db are really any good. He has failed to draft and develop a single defensive back into a viable starter. I put blame on him because before he got here we had amazing drafts under Colbert. Despite for the most part drafting late in rounds we always got a difference maker in every draft. Not so much since 07.

Not every first round pick is a home-run pick. Every team in this league has seen a first rounder underperform or become a bust.

madtowndrunkard
12-24-2012, 12:56 PM
I wouldn't fire Tomlin over one bad season, a few more consecutive ones then we'll talk.

Hate to be in his shoes right now, especially in a meeting with the Rooneys. He's gotta have the worst gig in the NFL to meet fan and owner expectations.

I have no issues with the draft picks, I think Colbert has done an excellent job IMO. But Tomlin is a player's coach, not someone you see giving discipline out to the vets.

We'll see what happens next season.



For a coach who has taken over a SB caliber team, I think 3 bad seasons in a row justifies getting fired. Next year is YEAR 3.... IMO Tomlin has to win playoff games next season to keep his job. Getting beated and knocked out of the playoffs by the Bronco's was easily the worst coaching job I've seen in Pittsburgh in my entire life.... There's nothing remotely close to that failure. Then we follow up that failure with losses to the Chargers, Browns, Raiders, Titans, and possibly a losing record... he has to win next year or bye bye

SteelBobbleHead
12-24-2012, 01:22 PM
sorry but his drafts have been pretty bad Woodley, Wallace, DeCastro, Adam all early round picks. ONLY player picked late that worked out is Brown. None of the db are really any good. He has failed to draft and develop a single defensive back into a viable starter. I put blame on him because before he got here we had amazing drafts under Colbert. Despite for the most part drafting late in rounds we always got a difference maker in every draft. Not so much since 07.

I'm confused. Are you suggesting Tomlin, not Colbert, has done the drafting since Cowher left?
DB's??? Ike has been a top corner for years now. He just isn't recognized because he can't catch the ball. Would be hard for any DB to come in and supplant him. Lewis has been solid this year. The more experience Allen and Brown got the better they looked. I thought those 2 guys played outstanding yesterday.

SteeleReign
12-24-2012, 04:33 PM
Are you Steelers player? Do you have inside access to the locker room? What do you base your wild accusations on? Is it just your demented beliefs about this coach?

And a downward spiral? when have we started a downward spiral? we are one year removed from a 12-4 season, did said downward spiral started then?

Is Tomlin perfect? not all, he had made some head scratching decisions this year, but that does not make him a bad coach, it just makes him human.

Tomlin has had a losing season during his first 6 years (this year has not finished yet. but i believe we will beat the browns.) has only missed the playoffs twice, and has had 3 12-4 seasons to boot. Oh yeah, he also won a super bowl and also took us to another one. he has a .625 winning percentage as a coach, but we are in a downward spiral?

He also has drafted well. Wallace, Bown, Sanders, Heyward, Gilbert, Allen, Pouncey, Worilds, Dwyer, Lewis, Woodley, ETC. Sure he has drafted some busts in the early rounds, but look at any other coaches' draft, and you will see busts all over the place.
(I did not put anybody on this years draft because it is too early to tell really.)

To say that Tomlin is not a good coach, not back it up with any facts or, hell, even valid opinions, is just plain dumb.

You don't need to be a player to know that Tomlin is losing the locker room. It's played out on the field. The players and their development are like kids. If you are lax with your rules and don't follow through with your threats of discipline, they become little cocky smart-asses. Look at the young guys on this team...especially the "Young Money" crew. They need to grow up, and Mike needs to kick some ass in camp next year or this team will continue to flounder. Tomlin has got to lose this buddy-buddy method he's using to guide these youngsters - they are taking advantage of him.

I hate to break it to you, but ANY team that hires a "players coach" is in a downward spiral immediately. They may win for a while, but eventually the enamor wears off and the players no longer respond to the rah-rah methods. Look at all the great multiple championship winning coaches in any sport over the course of history. A large majority of them are/were taskmasters that accepted nothing short of balls-to-the-wall hard work and perfection. Even the "nice guys" were tough during practice - Wooden, Dean Smith, Shula, even Cowher to a degree.

Tomlin needs to grow a pair and quit the back-slapping and joking around and beat some dicks in the dirt in Latrobe!! :tt03:

casteeler
12-24-2012, 06:05 PM
You don't need to be a player to know that Tomlin is losing the locker room. It's played out on the field. The players and their development are like kids. If you are lax with your rules and don't follow through with your threats of discipline, they become little cocky smart-asses. Look at the young guys on this team...especially the "Young Money" crew. They need to grow up, and Mike needs to kick some ass in camp next year or this team will continue to flounder. Tomlin has got to lose this buddy-buddy method he's using to guide these youngsters - they are taking advantage of him.

I hate to break it to you, but ANY team that hires a "players coach" is in a downward spiral immediately. They may win for a while, but eventually the enamor wears off and the players no longer respond to the rah-rah methods. Look at all the great multiple championship winning coaches in any sport over the course of history. A large majority of them are/were taskmasters that accepted nothing short of balls-to-the-wall hard work and perfection. Even the "nice guys" were tough during practice - Wooden, Dean Smith, Shula, even Cowher to a degree.

Tomlin needs to grow a pair and quit the back-slapping and joking around and beat some dicks in the dirt in Latrobe!! :tt03:

I figured if this guy couldn't figure it out by watching the team fall apart,I couldn't convince him. Good point though

Danny136200
12-24-2012, 08:45 PM
You don't need to be a player to know that Tomlin is losing the locker room. It's played out on the field. The players and their development are like kids. If you are lax with your rules and don't follow through with your threats of discipline, they become little cocky smart-asses. Look at the young guys on this team...especially the "Young Money" crew. They need to grow up, and Mike needs to kick some ass in camp next year or this team will continue to flounder. Tomlin has got to lose this buddy-buddy method he's using to guide these youngsters - they are taking advantage of him.

I hate to break it to you, but ANY team that hires a "players coach" is in a downward spiral immediately. They may win for a while, but eventually the enamor wears off and the players no longer respond to the rah-rah methods. Look at all the great multiple championship winning coaches in any sport over the course of history. A large majority of them are/were taskmasters that accepted nothing short of balls-to-the-wall hard work and perfection. Even the "nice guys" were tough during practice - Wooden, Dean Smith, Shula, even Cowher to a degree.

Tomlin needs to grow a pair and quit the back-slapping and joking around and beat some dicks in the dirt in Latrobe!! :tt03:

Outside of the patiots Wide recievers corps, what group of WRs are not cocky? I do not get that argument. I would point out that when Timlin first came on, that most players thought he overworked them. I would also point out that Tomlin is willing to bench his players (Dwyer, Mendenhall, and Redman where benched immediately after fumbling during the browns debacle) and also suspend his players.

Again, I do not how you guys think that Tomlin is losing the locker room; almost nobody has said anything disrespectful to him publicly.

Tomlin has what it takes to win, he has showed in the past and is still showing it this year. That being said, the few upcoming years will be pretty challenging for him. The defense is getting too old and his draftees need to step up.

In conclusion, there is not evidence that Tomlin is losing the locker room; his job is not in jeopardy (seriously, this team almost never fires a coach).

That being said, these next few years are going to be a challenge for him to transition this defense from one generation to another. I think he has what it takes, some of might disagree with me, but we shall see in these few years.

Danny136200
12-24-2012, 08:48 PM
I figured if this guy couldn't figure it out by watching the team fall apart,I couldn't convince him. Good point though

No, you cannot convince me that Tomlin is not a coach, because you never brought up any valid points. I am willing to change my stance if you do. So far, you only stated what I assume are conspiracy theories.

desertsteel
12-24-2012, 09:12 PM
You can look foward to a few more years of missing the playoffs if you think Tomlin is the head coach for this team

History doesn't support your position.

Which of these coaches do you want over Tomlin?

Turner
Garrett
Rivera
Ryan
Gailey
Smith
Shurmur
Schwartz
Mularkey
Crennel
Allen
Schiano
Munchak

SteeleReign
12-24-2012, 09:32 PM
Outside of the patiots Wide recievers corps, what group of WRs are not cocky? I do not get that argument. I would point out that when Timlin first came on, that most players thought he overworked them. I would also point out that Tomlin is willing to bench his players (Dwyer, Mendenhall, and Redman where benched immediately after fumbling during the browns debacle) and also suspend his players.

Again, I do not how you guys think that Tomlin is losing the locker room; almost nobody has said anything disrespectful to him publicly.

Tomlin has what it takes to win, he has showed in the past and is still showing it this year. That being said, the few upcoming years will be pretty challenging for him. The defense is getting too old and his draftees need to step up.

In conclusion, there is not evidence that Tomlin is losing the locker room; his job is not in jeopardy (seriously, this team almost never fires a coach).

That being said, these next few years are going to be a challenge for him to transition this defense from one generation to another. I think he has what it takes, some of might disagree with me, but we shall see in these few years.

It's not the cockiness that is the problem. It's the cockiness without the discipline. You're correct. Tomlin did get grief from the veterans for overworking them..and what did he do? Went soft. Bad move.

After the 2009 debacle and weekly threats to "unleash hell" or "bench starters," with no follow through, it's no surprise that these benching have no affect on the players.

I agree that the next couple of years will write the book on Tomlin. I also believe he has what it takes, but he needs to re-establish some toughness in camp.

cowherpower
12-24-2012, 11:48 PM
I'm confused. Are you suggesting Tomlin, not Colbert, has done the drafting since Cowher left?
DB's??? Ike has been a top corner for years now. He just isn't recognized because he can't catch the ball. Would be hard for any DB to come in and supplant him. Lewis has been solid this year. The more experience Allen and Brown got the better they looked. I thought those 2 guys played outstanding yesterday.

No, I believe the HC and Colbert work in tandem. Lewis should not be starting. He leads the league in pass defends because teams throw at him constantly and every once in a while he gets in the way. Not because he is providing great coverage, but because a play will break down or an errant pass. I think I saw maybe 3 legit PD this season from him. He has ZERO interceptions. Next year when we actually play a decent passing offense people will see just how bad these guys are. Not to mention it's year three and he is just now getting to be barely better than William Gay. Allen has flashes and I hold out hope for him. Then again, there are plenty other teams out there running out as late or later round picks as Allen and outplaying him. Of course, how good any of them are is still somewhat of a mystery as Tomlin is allergic to playing young guys it seems.

I do see a lot of posters defending our defensive backs but this was a very easy schedule and we still couldn't get it done. I shudder to think how we'd look if we had to play NFC North with those QB and receivers. and as good as Lewis played he gave up that reception to get them in FG range. The guy had like 5 yards separation. WIDE open.

OX1947
12-24-2012, 11:54 PM
Tomlin is an OK head coach. Nothing special. I like his going for the win mentality but he isn't really good at game planning. Lots of hot air interviews and verbal diarrhea. But then again, if Big Ben has one more successful game winner in SB XLV, this discussion doesn't exist. Football has too many variables.

cowherpower
12-24-2012, 11:58 PM
History doesn't support your position.

Which of these coaches do you want over Tomlin?

Turner
Garrett
Rivera
Ryan
Gailey
Smith
Shurmur
Schwartz
Mularkey
Crennel
Allen
Schiano
Munchak

I honestly do not feel now or ever, that he has done a single thing to win any games for us I can't recall one instance when a game was over and we won and I said to myself "man, that Tomlin won us this game". He doesn't x an 0, he obviously does not prepare the team well as they are undisciplined, turnover prone and lack focus and energy. He never seems to do anything. He stands there and claps at field goal attempts. He never dresses Ben down for his idiotic decision making and poor throws. He let the RB position become a joke, and the worst of all, he presided over a Steeler D that is ranked 13th in sacks. 17th in INT, all against very suspect opponents who were mostly offensively challenged. He's supposed to be a D coach no? What exactly has he done? He held a clipboard as his ready made team coached by Lebeau beat an extremely suspect Arizona team that had no defense at all. He was thoroughly outcoached in SB vs. GB and again against Denver last playoffs. He is just not deserving of the praise he gets.

sloppyjoe
12-25-2012, 12:08 PM
Go ahead and take a look at the Patriots draft during that same period, and tell me if they have fared any better in the late rounds than the Steelers. And also, Keenan Lewis was drafted in 09', and has become a pretty solid NO.2 CB for us this year.

are the patriots out of the playoffs too because of poor late round draft picks too?

sloppyjoe
12-25-2012, 12:12 PM
Just as Cowher's job was safe even though he had three consecutive years of missing the playoffs in the late 90s. I even think he got an extension after one of those years too.

i bet the rooneys new cowher never quit on his team and had them motivated to play although not having a team with lots of talent

sloppyjoe
12-25-2012, 12:14 PM
I'm confused. Are you suggesting Tomlin, not Colbert, has done the drafting since Cowher left?
DB's??? Ike has been a top corner for years now. He just isn't recognized because he can't catch the ball. Would be hard for any DB to come in and supplant him. Lewis has been solid this year. The more experience Allen and Brown got the better they looked. I thought those 2 guys played outstanding yesterday.

tomlin has drafted the good players, colbert the bad..........:banging:

sloppyjoe
12-25-2012, 12:17 PM
History doesn't support your position.

Which of these coaches do you want over Tomlin?

Turner
Garrett
Rivera
Ryan
Gailey
Smith
Shurmur
Schwartz
Mularkey
Crennel
Allen
Schiano
Munchak


any one of those guys would be just as successful as tomlin if they were handed the same situation

uclkyle
12-25-2012, 02:41 PM
I wouldn't fire Tomlin over one bad season, a few more consecutive ones then we'll talk.

Hate to be in his shoes right now, especially in a meeting with the Rooneys. He's gotta have the worst gig in the NFL to meet fan and owner expectations.

I have no issues with the draft picks, I think Colbert has done an excellent job IMO. But Tomlin is a player's coach, not someone you see giving discipline out to the vets.

We'll see what happens next season.

I'm not so sure about the draft picks. Hood, Heyward, Pouncey is decent, but too injury prone, Timmons, good player, not dominent.

Danny136200
12-25-2012, 06:20 PM
are the patriots out of the playoffs too because of poor late round draft picks too?

Nope patriots are not out of the playoffs because of poor drafting, they have just been executing and not turning the ball over all the time. I do not get this argument whatsoever.

Danny136200
12-25-2012, 06:23 PM
i bet the rooneys new cowher never quit on his team and had them motivated to play although not having a team with lots of talent

Cowher's teams did not have talent? are you serious? take a look at those defenses he coached, that offensive line, running backs, ETC. Only position he failed to address was QB and Wide receivers.

And when did Tomlin quit on his team? I really do not get any of your arguments, can you elaborate?

SteelBobbleHead
12-25-2012, 06:30 PM
tomlin has drafted the good players, colbert the bad..........:banging:

Not my point at all. Colbert does that drafting, based off the scouting team reports and what coaches think are needs. Just wanted to make sure Cowher wasn't being praised for good drafts while Tomlin was being blamed for bad ones.

OX1947
12-25-2012, 06:50 PM
Cowher didn't have talent at QB position until his last 3 years. Winning a Super bowl and 2 AFC title appearances. His last year was debunked because of a moron without a helmet riding the fastest street legal bike in America.

sloppyjoe
12-25-2012, 09:11 PM
Cowher's teams did not have talent? are you serious? take a look at those defenses he coached, that offensive line, running backs, ETC. Only position he failed to address was QB and Wide receivers.

And when did Tomlin quit on his team? I really do not get any of your arguments, can you elaborate?

well, the most recent is when he didnt go for a 2pt conversion 3 different times to get us within two scores. i believe he admitted giving up in his presser

Saluki
12-25-2012, 10:16 PM
Tomlin's contract runs through 2016. He'll be around for at least three more years unless something weird happens.

therocksteeler
12-26-2012, 10:14 PM
Tomlin, Cowher, Tomlin, Cowher.....What this team needs is heart, leadership, commitment. Did anyone catch the foxsports.com article today where Ben shoulders the blame for poor play this year. Wowwww, what a honorable act of a leader within our team. However this year was not his fault .... I did find Tomlin not running to his QB's aid with help in this article and position that is forming that Ben's play is cause. Shockingly in the article Mike simply points out areas where Ben's play could be improved. Ugh....not cool.

''Just not making the critical plays,'' Tomlin said

Need to shoulder some of the heat Tomlin......just my thoughts though.

SteelBobbleHead
12-27-2012, 12:44 AM
I would love to see the question Tomlin was asked for that reply. Was it about Ben specifially? Seems like his answer is his typical generic answer for most questions. If that was his response about a question directed towards Ben then yes, he should shoulder some of the blame. Seems like a flawed line of thinking to be settling to be able to make a comeback.
I found it odd that only 2 players came to ben's defense, Miller and Ryan Clark. While Ben may not have played his best in the 4th quarter the collapse was far from falling solely on him. Drop passes, lack of ball security, horrific ST play, and blown 4th quarter leads all contributed.

BowCatShot
12-27-2012, 07:09 AM
Tomlin's a bum, except in the eyes of those with an obvious agenda. Throw the bum out.

Millers the sh!t
12-27-2012, 08:29 AM
Sorry I'm just not drinking the kool-aid. I've never really embraced him. Cowher developed a winning formula. His one weakness was the QB. As soon as he gets one, he retires. A professional mistake IMO.

Right on bud.

If cowher had a decent qb throughout his career he'd posses a few more rings and would go down as one of the best ever. It's a shame how he completes masterpiece then gives it all away.

steelfury02
12-27-2012, 08:57 AM
not that anyone should care, but I think the Tomlin and Cowher comparisons are getting really tired and trying.

Regardless of Tomlin or any head coach with the Steelers - I'd like to hear some fans stand up on here and declare that after we miss the playoffs they would like to see the head coach fired. That's what I'm gathering - that at the first sign of issues, let's just give up. I just want this stance to be crystal clear, otherwise, it just seems like a lot of "If he was still here, and I wish Tomlin did this instead . . ."

We are the most successful franchise in the SB era and with that comes the right to bitch, and especially when we've experienced what we call a sub-par performance and unmet expectations, however, no matter what on-field decisions we've seen, or interactions we like to dissect, we really have no clue what goes on behind close doors or at the BBQ at Coach T's house. How many guys like Cotchery and Plaxico have come, have gone, and say that there is no organization like the Steelers - a true family and that the grass isn't greener? That says a lot coming from six to seven figure egos. If we go a couple more seasons without a playoff win, then I'll start pointing to Tomlin, until then, I'll happily root for anyone that humiliates the Ravens this playoffs - even if it is Father Flannagan's Colts.

I like some are starting to see a trend with the personnel on offense and IMO, they have experienced a slow decline in production since the 2010 AFC champ game. Now is the time for this team to get back to basics and focusing on fundamentals and playing with passion, owning your role, and having faith in their teammates. It's also time for some vocal leaders to emerge on top of the few that lead by example. Possession should be the sole focus for the WRs IMO and I agree, we need a real BEAST at RB who can at least move forward if the line is mediocre-shit. The 2013 Steelers goal should be to go 6-0 in the division and play every AFC game after that like the AFC Champ game. Own the division and the rest will take care of itself. Get back to protecting Heinz field. There are some simple mindsets that they need to get back to, and if they do - we should be back to contending, I truly believe that.

Who else is close to getting #7? Cowboys and 49ers? HELL NO - they still don't have #6 yet and won't even after this season. This will be my last rant for 2012 so thank you to the mods and for everyone, including GoFor7 and Steelers Canada, for reading my emotional bitchfests after losses, and bitching at me, disagreeing, and generally making this a fun place to shoot the breeze about our favorite team. :drink: