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View Full Version : Why did we go 1-5 down the stretch?


desertsteel
12-23-2012, 11:31 PM
Seems pretty clear to me. We lost 5 out of the last 6 because of FAILURE at the QB position. The first 3 Ben was out and the lone win was the result of Batch's stellar performance. The last 3, all losses, Ben played putrid. In clutch situations he CHOKED every time. And throughout the games, the offense was quite frankly offensive. Pathetic.

You can call for Tomlin to be fired, bitch about Haley's offense, complain about the D's lack of turnovers and sacks, or whine about the injuries to the O line all you want. But the absolute truth is that we lost 5 of 6 because of failure at the QB position. I don't know what was wrong with Ben the past 3 weeks. He didn't seem to have lingering effects from the injury. Maybe he was distracted by being a new father. Whatever the cause, the QB position is the one thing that let us down.

I mean after all, Tomlin is who he is. He didn't change the past 5 weeks. No one has been happy with the O Coordinator for the past several years and the O line is always banged up. The QB position is the root cause of this collapse.

Steelers5895
12-23-2012, 11:46 PM
He didnt play well. Not sure why as I still consider Ben a top qb. In fact I put him only behind Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Brees then Ben based on career accomplishments.

This year the whole team seemed out of whack on offense. I honestly think a lot had to do with the regression of our "young money" wr corpsthey either dropped passes or fumbled what they caught. Plus, they had a hard time getting any seperation which is why Heath Miller had a big year with a ton of targets. Miller is a check down not a #1 option.

He had an off year as did all our wrs and all our running backs.

steelfury02
12-24-2012, 06:04 AM
He didnt play well. Not sure why as I still consider Ben a top qb. In fact I put him only behind Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Brees then Ben based on career accomplishments.

This year the whole team seemed out of whack on offense. I honestly think a lot had to do with the regression of our "young money" wr corpsthey either dropped passes or fumbled what they caught. Plus, they had a hard time getting any seperation which is why Heath Miller had a big year with a ton of targets. Miller is a check down not a #1 option.

He had an off year as did all our wrs and all our running backs.

The Young Money crew needs to be broken up IMO. We need 3 separate WRs that are willing to lay it on the line to work hard and POSSESS the ball. Then worry about big down field plays or YAC. Back to the basics. Wallace needs to go first and foremost.

Rick5895
12-24-2012, 06:13 AM
We certainly struggles at the end of the season offensively. I'm not so sure I blame it solely on the QB spot. We fumbled , dropped passes way too much for my liking.

pete74
12-24-2012, 06:48 AM
Brown is a goid WR but I think he is overpaid. We signed him after last season thinking that we were getting a deal because if he took another step forward this season he might want even more money. Well he didnt take that next step and is making a lot of money for his stats. I like him but he is overpaid and way to cocky. Ben has been playing poorly but I think he wilk play better if we put better players around him. Tomlin im very displeased with this year.

bornaSteelersfan
12-24-2012, 06:58 AM
1 and 5 down the stretch? One simple reason. Ben was injured and then came back timid and uninspired. "We know how important this game is. If the young guys don't get it from the look in my eyes, I may talk to them on the sideline." That is NOT going to cut it. Where was the fire?! Hell, where was the fire from the entire team?!

Blonde Bomber
12-24-2012, 07:49 AM
The lack of a solid running game hurt us. I am glad we got a look at what Dwyer and Redman so there were no false hopes. I am not sure whatever happened to the Mendenhall that hit the line hard, but I am tired of seeing him dance at the line. A good running game opens up so many possibilities for the QB and Wideouts, hell even Weeden and his WR's looked decent when Richardson was having a good game.

After the last few weeks, I had to keep reminding myself that even a decent running game would keep the chains moving and start beating their Defense down, instead of it being the other way around. Our wide receivers would be the envy of many teams if we could actually sell some play action pass.

DoctorCAD
12-24-2012, 07:58 AM
Putrid game planning by a group of coaches that would be fired from a junior high school.

FanSince72
12-24-2012, 08:14 AM
Ben played poorly, there's no question about that.

But as for who to blame, I put it all on Haley and Tomlin.
When Haley was hired, I said that the worst thing he could do would be to try to turn Ben into a pocket passer or some type of game-manager and that's exactly what he did and Tomlin did little to stop it from happening.

Arians saw in Ben what many people see which is a player who actually prefers to improvise and who plays better when there's no specific plan. He knew that Ben sees the field better when he steps out of the pocket and he allowed him to do that, which is why Arians was often criticized for not seeming to have much of a game plan at all.

But Arians knew that if he tried to keep Ben home, he would lose his creativity and his spontaneity and become a rather boring player and that's exactly what's happened under Haley. That's why Andrew Luck is doing so well because in many ways he's a lot like Ben in that he also likes to "make it up as he goes" and he's had tremendous success in doing just that.

Some QB's are meant to be managed but every now and then a guy comes along who does his best work without a script and Ben is one of those guys. Arians knew it and didn't so much try to game-plan as much as he simply tried to let Ben be Ben.
Haley is too controlling and wants everything to be "his" way and Ben (along with the team) has suffered as a result.

jaygorius
12-24-2012, 08:30 AM
The lack of a solid running game hurt us. I am glad we got a look at what Dwyer and Redman so there were no false hopes. I am not sure whatever happened to the Mendenhall that hit the line hard, but I am tired of seeing him dance at the line. A good running game opens up so many possibilities for the QB and Wideouts, hell even Weeden and his WR's looked decent when Richardson was having a good game.

After the last few weeks, I had to keep reminding myself that even a decent running game would keep the chains moving and start beating their Defense down, instead of it being the other way around. Our wide receivers would be the envy of many teams if we could actually sell some play action pass.

I think you really nailed it. We keep hearing about Ben playing so poorly (which he did) but I think a lot of it was because of the running game going no where. You need balance and can't go run run pass each drive if the runs get nothing

maddog78
12-24-2012, 08:32 AM
Haley looked like a genius before Ben got hurt. He was never the same after that. MVP season before that fateful night against the Chiefs.

Fire Haley
12-24-2012, 08:35 AM
Because Haley sucks, that's why.

Bland, boring predictable offense.

No wonder Ben said fuck it, I'll just stay home and play with the baby.

WVABE
12-24-2012, 08:36 AM
Ben should of never played against the Bolts, he wasn't close to being ready.
I'm not sold with the O-line either, I doubt the strength of it if they were 110% ready.
Barry Sanders would have a tough time getting out of the back field with the way our line gets beat.
Dink&Dunk was working.

TRH
12-24-2012, 08:36 AM
wow..........so many reason's why......

1. Execution. Can't score. Can't cause turnovers. Drop ball after ball. Etc.
I'm tired of "field goals". How frustrating is it when you watch NE, GB, Seattle, even Indy, and a whole host of other teams score TD after TD after TD - yet we completely freeze in the red zone.

2. Field position battle. We're a constant loser here. How many times during that stretch of games did we punt from inside our own 10?? Yeah - too many times to count.

3. No pressure on opposing QB's. Equally frustrating in the last 3 weeks (and farther back too) to watch Rivers, Romo, and now Dalton have ALL day and then some to just stand back there, think, and throw. Opposing QB's can snap the ball, eat a lunch, call home and check up on their girlfriends or wives, then decide where to throw the ball. Its ridiculous. What happened to the pass rush?

4. Lackluster attitude. Hey, where's Greg Lloyd or Joey Porter when you need them? What do you think they would have done on the sidelines in the last few weeks?
The guys look "half-dead" out there, no fire, little passion. In fact, someone pointed out last week at the Dallas game that during a quarter change-over, the Cowboys were hustling and running down to their end, while our guys were walking real slow, laughing with each other, etc Nice.
The team needs a LEADER OF MEN. A Ray Lewis, a Greg Lloyd, something. I'd like to see them draft a leader, a man's man, somewhere in the draft next year. There are rookies in this league on other teams who are "leading" better than our veteran's.

And poor coaching decisions, and poor special teams play, and stupid penalties, and on, and on, and on, and on. Many reasons why.
Tomlin has a HUGE job this offseason to try and right the ship.

desertsteel
12-24-2012, 09:03 AM
Great QB play covers a multitude of sins. Everything you described was also there when we were 6-3.

TRH
12-24-2012, 09:12 AM
if some of you people want to throw blame "only at the QB", try putting either Tom Brady or Peyton Manning behind our complete dogs**t offensive line. If Mr. Brady was playing for us yesterday, it would have been same result, probably worse. He's worse under pressure than Ben is. Those guys have all day and then some back there to do basically anything they want to do.
As bad as the "QB-ing" was yesterday - the OL was 3X worse. They were getting their doors blown off. Getting completely mowed down. DeCastro got used like a rubber in particular. I'm hoping he was just favoring his past injury and will improve - i'm sure he will.

Edman
12-24-2012, 09:57 AM
Ben played poorly, there's no question about that.

But as for who to blame, I put it all on Haley and Tomlin.
When Haley was hired, I said that the worst thing he could do would be to try to turn Ben into a pocket passer or some type of game-manager and that's exactly what he did and Tomlin did little to stop it from happening.

Arians saw in Ben what many people see which is a player who actually prefers to improvise and who plays better when there's no specific plan. He knew that Ben sees the field better when he steps out of the pocket and he allowed him to do that, which is why Arians was often criticized for not seeming to have much of a game plan at all.

But Arians knew that if he tried to keep Ben home, he would lose his creativity and his spontaneity and become a rather boring player and that's exactly what's happened under Haley. That's why Andrew Luck is doing so well because in many ways he's a lot like Ben in that he also likes to "make it up as he goes" and he's had tremendous success in doing just that.

Some QB's are meant to be managed but every now and then a guy comes along who does his best work without a script and Ben is one of those guys. Arians knew it and didn't so much try to game-plan as much as he simply tried to let Ben be Ben.
Haley is too controlling and wants everything to be "his" way and Ben (along with the team) has suffered as a result.

Not Really.

Ben was on pace for his best season yet before the freak shoulder injury put a stop to that. He was so good it would've easily put him in MVP consideration. He came back and he wasn't the same player.

Poor Gameplanning is also another thing. The Offense fell back into bad habits instead of doing what worked out so well. A Quick Passing Game to get Ben hot and letting the Running Game develop as the game went on. Near the end of the year we kept forcing the run and we did "Let Ben be Ben" and lo and behold, he started playing like crap. He was taken off the leash and we paid for it. Ben went from "Plan Early" straight to "Sandlot". His Smart Play disappeared and Bonehead Ben returned.

Ben running all over the place and the offense getting nowhere. BTW, "Successful" Andy Luck is having quite the mediocre season, and more mediocrity is coming his way if it continues.

Not to mention the lackluster effort by the WR core with their misplays, dropped passes, fumbles, and being out of position resulting in interceptions.

Edman
12-24-2012, 10:06 AM
As bad as the "QB-ing" was yesterday - the OL was 3X worse. They were getting their doors blown off. Getting completely mowed down. DeCastro got used like a rubber in particular. I'm hoping he was just favoring his past injury and will improve - i'm sure he will.

And what do you do when your O-Line is questionable and struggling? You call a quick passing game to keep the Defense on it's heels and take pressure off the Line, just like how the Steelers did so well earlier this year. Why did we go away from what worked? Of course, Haley pulled his own Arians and like clockwork, the Offense fell apart.

It is said that remnants of Arians still exist in this Offense, and Yesterday showed that.

torpedoshell31
12-24-2012, 10:08 AM
Our Offense is based on run on first and second down, now it's 3rd and 9 and Ben after avoiding the first couple of would be tacklers heaves the ball downfield. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. This isn't a way to run an NFL offense.

dez09231
12-24-2012, 10:12 AM
Lack of discipline on special teams, lack of depth, poor QB play in clutch moments, lack of turnover creation, too many turnovers.

desertsteel
12-24-2012, 10:30 AM
if some of you people want to throw blame "only at the QB", try putting either Tom Brady or Peyton Manning behind our complete dogs**t offensive line. If Mr. Brady was playing for us yesterday, it would have been same result, probably worse. He's worse under pressure than Ben is. Those guys have all day and then some back there to do basically anything they want to do.
As bad as the "QB-ing" was yesterday - the OL was 3X worse. They were getting their doors blown off. Getting completely mowed down. DeCastro got used like a rubber in particular. I'm hoping he was just favoring his past injury and will improve - i'm sure he will.
How bad was our O-line the last time we won the super bowl?

desertsteel
12-24-2012, 10:32 AM
"We did things to give us a chance to win the game, but I blew it," Roethlisberger said.

Quoted for truth

pete74
12-24-2012, 10:37 AM
if some of you people want to throw blame "only at the QB", try putting either Tom Brady or Peyton Manning behind our complete dogs**t offensive line. If Mr. Brady was playing for us yesterday, it would have been same result, probably worse. He's worse under pressure than Ben is. Those guys have all day and then some back there to do basically anything they want to do.
As bad as the "QB-ing" was yesterday - the OL was 3X worse. They were getting their doors blown off. Getting completely mowed down. DeCastro got used like a rubber in particular. I'm hoping he was just favoring his past injury and will improve - i'm sure he will.

Im so sick of hearing this. Rodgers has just as bad of a line. There were a few sacks were the defense just shot right in but Ben had 3 seconds or more on a lot of throws and thats all you can ask for

desertsteel
12-24-2012, 10:39 AM
QUARTERBACK
It was the second game in a row in which Ben Roethlisberger's final pass was intercepted and resulted in the winning field goal. This one, though, was no surprise. Roethlisberger played his worst game of the year, beginning with the interception return for touchdown on his third attempt of the game. He was sacked four times, looked indecisive and converted 2 of 14 third-down chances. The only bright spot was a 60-yard TD pass at the end of the first half.

GRADE: F

Quoted for truth

Darkstorm05
12-24-2012, 11:10 AM
Im so sick of hearing this. Rodgers has just as bad of a line. There were a few sacks were the defense just shot right in but Ben had 3 seconds or more on a lot of throws and thats all you can ask for

I actually found a site that is doing some time comparisons on the lines and QB's. Since everyone is always arguing this here, it might be interesting to a few of you.

First, the average "Time to throw" stat, and the explanation of what it measures...

"We record the time from when the ball is snapped to the point where the quarterback has either thrown a pass or can no longer throw a pass (has been sacked or has scrambled past the line of scrimmage)."

QB Seconds
Ben 2.73
Brady 2.49
Eli 2.59
Rodgers 2.76
Manning 2.51


Now, we compare with the following number, which is the average time between the snap to a sack...

QB Seconds
Ben 2.56
Brady 3.26
Eli 3.04
Rodgers 3.62
Manning 2.5


And finally, here's a percentage of snaps where a given QB gets the ball out in under 2.5 seconds...

QB %
Ben 50
Brady 59.1
Eli 52
Rodgers 52
Manning 55.3


So based on this, Ben gets less time than everyone but Manning, but also holds onto the ball the longest. Unfortunately for the "Brady would do just as bad here" crowd, that doesn't seem to be the case. While they do longer from their lines(Except Manning), these numbers suggest that if Eli, Peyton, or Brady took over for Ben, they would still do just as good, because they routinely get the ball away faster than our protection allows pass rushers in.

fansince'76
12-24-2012, 11:25 AM
Why did we go 1-5 down the stretch?

Very simple:

Zyn9uhlswGQ

If anybody honestly and seriously thinks he has been healthy since that game, they're delusional.

defence
12-24-2012, 11:58 AM
Why did we go 1-5 down the stretch?

Very simple:

Zyn9uhlswGQ

If anybody honestly and seriously thinks he has been healthy since that game, they're delusional.

Thank you!!! But I will take it one step further. If you can watch the KC game again; you will see that even before Ben got hurt; the Steelers offence couldn't do shit. My point is Crennel gave the NFL the blueprint how to stop Haleys offence. It's a copy cat league. It's been all down hill from there.

Fire Arians
12-24-2012, 02:12 PM
no running game after adams/colon got injured

you can't be 1 dimensional in today's offense, unless you have unbelievable talent at qb (rodgers/brady/manning). ben is good but simply not as good as those 3

harrison'samonster
12-24-2012, 02:17 PM
no running game after adams/colon got injured

you can't be 1 dimensional in today's offense, unless you have unbelievable talent at qb (rodgers/brady/manning). ben is good but simply not as good as those 3

absolutely. I know people are pretty down on our RB's. They have their problems, but when our O-line was pushing ppl around they were looking great. In the last few games nobody has respected our running game

Haley and Tomlin have to come up with a solution to this problem, because I expect injuries on the line every season.

SteelersCanada
12-24-2012, 02:18 PM
Why? It's very, very simple: inconsistency

desertsteel
12-24-2012, 03:01 PM
no running game after adams/colon got injured

you can't be 1 dimensional in today's offense, unless you have unbelievable talent at qb (rodgers/brady/manning). ben is good but simply not as good as those 3
Yeah I used to have Ben around #4 but I think he's dropped to around #7-8. Just my opinion.

I would put all of these QBs ahead of Ben (in no particular order):
Brady
P. Manning
Brees
E. Manning
Rogers
Ryan
RG3

TRH
12-24-2012, 03:09 PM
no running game after adams/colon got injured

you can't be 1 dimensional in today's offense, unless you have unbelievable talent at qb (rodgers/brady/manning). ben is good but simply not as good as those 3

i watched a number of games from each of the 3 this year. Manning & Brady are so ever blessed with stellar offensive lines - giving them all day and a nap to sit back there and throw - it actually sickens me to watch.

Rogers didn't have that blessing this year. He was sacked more than any of them. But he continually throws very quick slants to keep defenses on their toes.
Haley started the first half of this year doing just that. And it seemed to be working for Ben, just as it does for Rogers. But then - suddenly and mysteriously - we abandoned that (just as we did the run game) and switched Ben into "drop back passing" - where he of course got crushed and swarmed on again.

I still put Ben in with those other guys. I directly point to our shoddy OL play (and injuries) this year and Haley's second half of the season brain-freeze. Don't expect this to continue next year. Changes will obviously be made. Tomlin specifically pointed out offensive non-execution, so play-calling strategies are going to be a very hot number behind the scenes here.

GoFor7
12-24-2012, 03:12 PM
Yeah I used to have Ben around #4 but I think he's dropped to around #7-8. Just my opinion.

I would put all of these QBs ahead of Ben (in no particular order):
Brady
P. Manning
Brees
E. Manning
Rogers
Ryan
RG3

Umm.... no. RG3 and Ryan haven't even come close to winning anything. Eli Manning has played worse than Ben (and he doesn't have injury as an excuse). Sorry, delusional thinking doesn't take away what Ben has done in the past.

TRH
12-24-2012, 03:17 PM
Umm.... no. RG3 and Ryan haven't even come close to winning anything. Eli Manning has played worse than Ben (and he doesn't have injury as an excuse). Sorry, delusional thinking doesn't take away what Ben has done in the past.



absolutely true.

People complain about Ben doing one or two things - Manning has made a multitude of more mistakes than Ben has - and thats just this year alone. And don't forget : they're the SB defending 'champs'. I'd take Ben over E Manning any day, any time.

If Manning played HERE - and played the way he has - people would be calling for his head on the guillotine.

desertsteel
12-24-2012, 03:32 PM
Umm.... no. RG3 and Ryan haven't even come close to winning anything. Eli Manning has played worse than Ben (and he doesn't have injury as an excuse). Sorry, delusional thinking doesn't take away what Ben has done in the past.

People around here like to call others DELUSIONAL a lot don't they? I hope it makes you feel better.

I have bolded the important part of your response.

Chris Fuamatu-Ma'afala
12-24-2012, 03:33 PM
We went 1-5 down the stretch due to Ben's lackluster play, not enough plays out of our high priced players (Harrison, Woodley, Wallace, Brown, Polamalu), coaching errors, special team play, and injuries.

A 100% total team debacle from the coaching staff down to the last special teams scrub. They deserve to be watching the playoffs from the coach and need to check themselves while they do it.

TheVet
12-24-2012, 03:42 PM
The lack of a solid running game hurt us. I am glad we got a look at what Dwyer and Redman so there were no false hopes. I am not sure whatever happened to the Mendenhall that hit the line hard, but I am tired of seeing him dance at the line. A good running game opens up so many possibilities for the QB and Wideouts, hell even Weeden and his WR's looked decent when Richardson was having a good game.

After the last few weeks, I had to keep reminding myself that even a decent running game would keep the chains moving and start beating their Defense down, instead of it being the other way around. Our wide receivers would be the envy of many teams if we could actually sell some play action pass.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. Mendenhall has never hit the line hard. Never, ever. Dancing is his thing.

Also, Dwyer and Redman both showed more than enough to say goodbye to that physically gifted, but underachieving headcase. Dwyer and Redman both have proven they can outproduce Mendy just based on desire and effort.

desertsteel
12-24-2012, 03:51 PM
I'm not sure what you're referring to. Mendenhall has never hit the line hard. Never, ever. Dancing is his thing.

Also, Dwyer and Redman both showed more than enough to say goodbye to that physically gifted, but underachieving headcase. Dwyer and Redman both have proven they can outproduce Mendy just based on desire and effort.

Personally, I could live without all 3 of them...

GoFor7
12-24-2012, 03:54 PM
People around here like to call others DELUSIONAL a lot don't they? I hope it makes you feel better.

I have bolded the important part of your response.

Which is more than most of the QBs you've listen have done in the past....

desertsteel
12-24-2012, 04:00 PM
Which is more than most of the QBs you've listen have done in the past....

Yes and the past is great but leaves us home for the playoffs today. If you want to talk about CAREER rankings that's fine, but there were clearly 7-8 QBs who outplayed Ben this year. That's my point.

Blonde Bomber
12-24-2012, 04:22 PM
I'm not sure what you're referring to. Mendenhall has never hit the line hard. Never, ever. Dancing is his thing.

Also, Dwyer and Redman both showed more than enough to say goodbye to that physically gifted, but underachieving headcase. Dwyer and Redman both have proven they can outproduce Mendy just based on desire and effort.

Exactly what I said about Dwyer, and Redman, so we agree there. I seem to remember Mendenhall hitting the line harder when he first took over, but that could be just a desire for a new RB back then and he looked different than Parker. Either way a RB that hits the Defense has always been a good thing.

NSMaster56
12-25-2012, 01:47 PM
Why they went 1-5:
Age
Injuries
Early BYE week
Lack of running game

and most of all:
UNDISCIPLINED PLAY

You don't win games in this league based on reputation. The Steelers need to remember that in 2013.

zcoop
12-25-2012, 01:58 PM
1. Haley's predictable offense.

2. We're a one trick pony at the QB position. Ben goes down and we lose it. Even worse, he comes back and shits the bed.

That's why we were 1 - 5 down the stretch.

uclkyle
12-25-2012, 04:43 PM
He didnt play well. Not sure why as I still consider Ben a top qb. In fact I put him only behind Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Brees then Ben based on career accomplishments.

This year the whole team seemed out of whack on offense. I honestly think a lot had to do with the regression of our "young money" wr corpsthey either dropped passes or fumbled what they caught. Plus, they had a hard time getting any seperation which is why Heath Miller had a big year with a ton of targets. Miller is a check down not a #1 option.

He had an off year as did all our wrs and all our running backs.

Remind me again why Manning and Brees are better than Ben? QB rankings are:

1) Brady
2) Rodgers
3) Ben
4) Eli Manning
5) Peyton Manning
6) Brees (most overrated QB in league history

BKAnthem
12-25-2012, 05:58 PM
It just doesn't feel like Ben has bought into Haley's offense totally.....

steelersforever58
12-25-2012, 06:09 PM
For many years now, going back even to the Cowher years, the Steelers offense has been such a low scoring one that any given Sunday they could easily lose. Unless the d was outstanding or the offense played a mistake free ball control game we were in trouble.

This current d although not outstanding IMO, is definately good enough to win a Super Bowl with a high powered offense. The question now is what is keeping the Steelers from being that offense? I think we definately need a big, physical go to receiver. And getting the rb position cleared up would be nice. We don't need a superstar, but someone steady.

Rowland2110
12-25-2012, 06:50 PM
We are still very capable of going 1-6 with Miller out now.

austinfrench76
12-25-2012, 07:17 PM
BS on anything to do with Haley. I know, for whatever reason blaming the OC is this boards go to move but it's wrong this year. They guy just got hear and Ben didn't buy in. That's the organizations issue not Haley. Ben played awful upon his return from injury but was having an MVP type season prior to that. Why? Haley was so great then and got worse ??? No. Ben went backwards to end the season. His play against Dallas and Cincy cost us our season. And the area that he mainly kills us is in the kicking game. I get his school yard play on terms of most of the field but when we are close to FG range, he cannot take sacks and he did that ALOT this year. Check the game tape. Dallas, Cleveland, Tennessee and Cincinnati were all games in which we had the ball on the other teams 30 yd line or closer and he took a huge sack. Can't do it! And win in the NFL with that type of play. That has nothing to do with Haley. It's obviously not all Ben's fault at all but he killed the season and Tomlin killed the Cincy game with bad decisions. Plenty of blame to go around.

desertsteel
12-25-2012, 09:25 PM
In addition to the killer interceptions, which mostly happened late in the year, I can't count the number of times Ben took sacks (sometimes consecutive ones) that knocked us out of field goal range. IMO, that's a sack you just can't take as a QB. This happened all season long. Get rid of the ball! It takes points off the board and how many games did we lose by 3 points?

lardlad
12-25-2012, 10:22 PM
Starks made a comment about opposing teams playing more zone n the second half of the season. So either Haley can't scheme around this and adjust or Ben cannot.

FrancoLambert
12-25-2012, 11:45 PM
Remind me again why Manning and Brees are better than Ben? QB rankings are:

1) Brady
2) Rodgers
3) Ben
4) Eli Manning
5) Peyton Manning
6) Brees (most overrated QB in league history

Rating Ben over Peyton, c'mon now....be serious.

desertsteel
12-25-2012, 11:51 PM
Rating Ben over Peyton, c'mon now....be serious.
Exactly

Lady Steel
12-26-2012, 01:25 AM
This team hasn't been the same since Rooney went to Ireland. It starts at the top.

PATS16N0
12-26-2012, 02:08 AM
Big Ben is on the Romo tier.

Buddha Bus
12-26-2012, 05:02 AM
Big Ben is on the Romo tier.

And Brady is on a tier that rhymes with Romo.

rgj
12-26-2012, 05:29 AM
And Brady is on a tier that rhymes with Romo.

As in Perry COMO?

jb500ex
12-26-2012, 07:30 AM
Rating Ben over Peyton, c'mon now....be serious.

Yes qb rating is more important then a guy who scores points. People are nuts. Bree's and manning are so much better then Ben its not close

drucifer
12-26-2012, 09:52 AM
Being a new father really changes a guy. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ben didn't want to play football in January.

Atlanta Dan
12-26-2012, 10:35 AM
Big Ben is on the Romo tier.

Troll:chuckle:

Get back to me on Romo being on the same tier as Ben when Romo wins a playoff game

desertsteel
12-26-2012, 11:10 AM
Big Ben is on the Romo tier.Ben had a Romo-like season. That's for sure. However, get back to us when Romo wins a super bowl. For that matter, get back to us when Brady wins another. I mean, how looooong has it been???

Yes qb rating is more important then a guy who scores points. People are nuts. Bree's and manning are so much better then Ben its not closeThe problem with putting Ben in that upper echelon is that when you watch these other guys, they rack up points like a video game, while we frequently squeak in our first FG right before halftime and finish with 13 points. Elite QBs find ways to move their team down the field and score points. Ben's claim to fame the past few years (in the absence of this) has been his clutch play when it mattered the most... well, that's been absent too the past couple of years.

GoFor7
12-26-2012, 11:50 AM
You know a lot of you are upset because it's been four years since the Steelers have won a super bowl - and a lot of that blame falls on Ben's shoulders. Not sure if it's always right to blame the QB for that, but that's generally just how it is in today's NFL.

So following that logic, Ben must be better than both P. Manning and Brady. Been 6 years since Peyton won his only SB, and it's been 8 years since Brady won his last. Obviously, Ben has gotten it done more recently than either of those two.

steelbad@50
12-26-2012, 12:12 PM
For me its simple, our run game was inconsistent all season long. Just look at our ranking, 26th. Thats horrible for this team. Blame the O line for not opening up the needed holes, or not having a true #1 back. For whatever reason our run game needs to be fixed or we will see a repeat of another lackluster season next year. BLACK & GOLD FOREVER !!!

SteelBobbleHead
12-26-2012, 12:52 PM
Ben played poorly, there's no question about that.

But as for who to blame, I put it all on Haley and Tomlin.
When Haley was hired, I said that the worst thing he could do would be to try to turn Ben into a pocket passer or some type of game-manager and that's exactly what he did and Tomlin did little to stop it from happening.

Arians saw in Ben what many people see which is a player who actually prefers to improvise and who plays better when there's no specific plan. He knew that Ben sees the field better when he steps out of the pocket and he allowed him to do that, which is why Arians was often criticized for not seeming to have much of a game plan at all.

But Arians knew that if he tried to keep Ben home, he would lose his creativity and his spontaneity and become a rather boring player and that's exactly what's happened under Haley. That's why Andrew Luck is doing so well because in many ways he's a lot like Ben in that he also likes to "make it up as he goes" and he's had tremendous success in doing just that.

Some QB's are meant to be managed but every now and then a guy comes along who does his best work without a script and Ben is one of those guys. Arians knew it and didn't so much try to game-plan as much as he simply tried to let Ben be Ben.
Haley is too controlling and wants everything to be "his" way and Ben (along with the team) has suffered as a result.

I'm not sure what you consider "tremendous success" when you refer to a QB, or are you just referring to Luck?
He has just over a 50% completion percentage and while he has thrown for 21 TD's he has also thrown 18 INT's.

In retrospect, even though Ben played abysmal since his return from injury, he still managed to throw 23 TD's (3rd most in his carreer) while only throwing 8 INT's ( 2nd fewest in his carreer).

To answer the original post question, IMO a lot of it had to do with poor coaching desicions.
1st game against ravens Leftwich injures himself on the 2nd play of the game. Shoulder and ribs. His body language told anyone who saw him that he was in excruciating pain. The coaches continued to try and have him throw the ball even while the running game was averaging almost 5 yards per carry.

Cleveland game can't all be blamed on coaches because they were not the ones who fumbled 8 times. Where I do put blame on them was it was obvious they did not have Charlie ready to go.

bolts game the team as a whole was not ready to play. Terrible game planning and execution.

cowboys game, if I remember correctly, Tomlin once again had some horrific clock management to end the game.

bengals game, terrible play calling from the O. Run, run, pass wasn't getting it done. The series that killed me the most was our first possession of the 2nd half. The D had just gotten an INT setting the O up around the bengal 35 yard line. We got, run for minimal gain, run for loss, pass for a sack taking them out of field goal range. The rest of the 2nd half did not get any better.

FrancoLambert
12-26-2012, 03:54 PM
"He's making his list and checking it twice...."

In no particular order:

1) OL......a broken record around here.
2) Abyssmal special teams play......another broken record.
3) No running game (see #1).
4) A D-line that exerts no pressure on the QB, the 3-4 seems to be a dinosaur in today's NFL.....you have to have the ability to pressure the QB without blitzing.
5) Questionable in-game coaching decisions (there's a few to choose from).
6) A QB who seems to have lost a bit of "fire" in his belly.
7) Injury after injury. (Are the team trainers the least bit culpable?).
8) Some young egos running amuck at the WR position.
9) Age.
10) Not enough turnovers from our D and TOO many from our O.

kan_t
12-26-2012, 04:05 PM
"He's making his list and checking it twice...."

In no particular order:

1) OL......a broken record around here.
2) Abyssmal special teams play......another broken record.
3) No running game (see #1).
4) A D-line that exerts no pressure on the QB, the 3-4 seems to be a dinosaur in today's NFL.....you have to have the ability to pressure the QB without blitzing.
5) Questionable in-game coaching decisions (there's a few to choose from).
6) A QB who seems to have lost a bit of "fire" in his belly.
7) Injury after injury. (Are the team trainers the least bit culpable?).
8) Some young egos running amuck at the WR position.
9) Age.
10) Not enough turnovers from our D and TOO many from our O.
I think you sum it up perfectly.

harrison'samonster
12-26-2012, 04:06 PM
"He's making his list and checking it twice...."

In no particular order:

1) OL......a broken record around here.
2) Abyssmal special teams play......another broken record.
3) No running game (see #1).
4) A D-line that exerts no pressure on the QB, the 3-4 seems to be a dinosaur in today's NFL.....you have to have the ability to pressure the QB without blitzing.
5) Questionable in-game coaching decisions (there's a few to choose from).
6) A QB who seems to have lost a bit of "fire" in his belly.
7) Injury after injury. (Are the team trainers the least bit culpable?).
8) Some young egos running amuck at the WR position.
9) Age.
10) Not enough turnovers from our D and TOO many from our O.

nice and simple, I like it.

1) OL- I blame injuries and inexperience for that
2) ST- have no answer for that one. coaches need to figure this out if we are going to be competitive
3) see 1 and 7 and 10
4) DL- I might be with you there
5) coaching- and outside of the game coaching, motivation, leadership all questionable
6) Rothlisberger- lost something after the injury, but I think we win or lose with BB
7) injuries- the main problem of this season as far as I see it
8) wr- for me that's still debatable. definitely question their focus
9) age- with some players retiring or being cut this should be about to change
10) Can't win consistently in the NFL w/out winning turnover battle

desertsteel
12-26-2012, 04:12 PM
IMO these big long lists are NOT the reason we went 1-5. They may be the reason we didn't go 6-0 down the stretch but not 1-5. Most of these games came down to 1 or 2 plays except the SD debacle. I realize that it makes you look smart to list 10 things but in today's NFL you're not gonna fix em all.

harrison'samonster
12-26-2012, 04:15 PM
IMO these big long lists are NOT the reason we went 1-5. They may be the reason we didn't go 6-0 down the stretch but not 1-5. Most of these games came down to 1 or 2 plays except the SD debacle. I realize that it makes you look smart to list 10 things but in today's NFL you're not gonna fix em all.

we'll add that to the list as #11. Thanks for your input.

FrancoLambert
12-26-2012, 04:28 PM
IMO these big long lists are NOT the reason we went 1-5. They may be the reason we didn't go 6-0 down the stretch but not 1-5. Most of these games came down to 1 or 2 plays except the SD debacle. I realize that it makes you look smart to list 10 things but in today's NFL you're not gonna fix em all.

Maybe it is more of a "dismal season" summary and not specific enough to the thread question.

However, I did not take the time to compile this list to "look smart" as you say.

If that's your take...OK, but I'll inform you......I don't think most of us post here "to look smart." We post to share ideas, thoughts, opinions, dabble in friendly arguements, second guess and enjoy what it means to be a diehard fan of a great team and organization. When I post here, it's for fun.

On a football note....if you are a GM or coach, you DO try to "fix em all."

desertsteel
12-26-2012, 07:05 PM
Maybe it is more of a "dismal season" summary and not specific enough to the thread question.

However, I did not take the time to compile this list to "look smart" as you say.

If that's your take...OK, but I'll inform you......I don't think most of us post here "to look smart." We post to share ideas, thoughts, opinions, dabble in friendly arguements, second guess and enjoy what it means to be a diehard fan of a great team and organization. When I post here, it's for fun.

On a football note....if you are a GM or coach, you DO try to "fix em all."I didn't mean it as a slight and I don't disagree with any of your points. Some teams try to fix them via free agency (you know creating a "dynasty" like the Eagles LMAO) and other teams like the Steelers try to fix them via the draft and coaching. From that standpoint, most of the criticism on this board is directed at the drafting and coaching. It's pretty easy to identify the problem but less easy, even for experts, to fix them. 75% of the 32 teams in the NFL have not done it as well as the Steelers in recent history and 100% of the teams have not done it as well since Super Bowl I. Therefore, it's a little ridiculous to continue reading on these board how the Steelers don't know what they're doing (not directed at you).

Rowland2110
12-27-2012, 03:17 AM
BS on anything to do with Haley. I know, for whatever reason blaming the OC is this boards go to move but it's wrong this year. They guy just got hear and Ben didn't buy in. .

I dont know if Ben did not buy in but i fully believe Ben is responsible for going back to the bubble screens. I remember watching an interview this year in which ben called plays from last years play book that the receivers knew.

This is why i am not quick to judge Haley. But if what i suspect is true the coaches are to blame for not running the offense Haley wanted to.. possibly. This is all speculation of course but i totally believe at least part of it is true.

GoFor7
12-27-2012, 11:27 AM
I dont know if Ben did not buy in but i fully believe Ben is responsible for going back to the bubble screens. I remember watching an interview this year in which ben called plays from last years play book that the receivers knew.

This is why i am not quick to judge Haley. But if what i suspect is true the coaches are to blame for not running the offense Haley wanted to.. possibly. This is all speculation of course but i totally believe at least part of it is true.

Or it is want Artie wanted...

Myounger55
12-27-2012, 11:53 AM
I actually have a whole different take on it beyond the strategy or X's and O's. In a season where 8 games were decided by 3 points or less I believe it came down to a lack of inspirational leadership. There are no Porters or Wards on this team. The closest person is Ryan Clark. You need a strong voice to step in and rally their players in these tight games. Instead we have silent leaders and individual hot dogs out on the field.