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View Full Version : Tomlin and Ben are killing the franchise


SteelerJay
12-29-2012, 09:29 AM
Yes, I know, we have won with Tomlin and Ben, a great Super Bowl, so can't knock them for that. These two, when their game is on, can work wonders.

The problem is, when their game is off, they can kill a season. They have killed more seasons than Super Bowls.

Case in point:

1) Ever since he got here, Tomlin insists in playing injured Ben even when he's ineffective. It's like some sort of blind allegiance. Maybe it''s to have an excuse if the game is lost. Who knows. Remember Ben against 49'ers last year? He could hardly walk but he starts. Apparently, Iron Man Ben insists on playing. Result? Season goes downhill. This year, Ben goes South in December.

There are two capable backup qb's on the roster but Tomlin goes with the injured starter regardless, and sticks with him through thick or thin.

2) Why the next man up philosophy does not apply to the QB position?

3) the Offensive game plans are plain offensive. No effective counter strategies or mis-directions based on the opponents strength and what the opponent is doing well in the game.

desertsteel
12-29-2012, 09:31 AM
Is there a moron section that this can be moved to?

steeltheone
12-29-2012, 09:37 AM
You have to play your money man...Batch and lefty are not full time winners.

harrison'samonster
12-29-2012, 09:40 AM
Tomlin and Big Ben make mistakes like everybody else. But to say that they are killing the franchise is a bit out there.

You are right, we've never gotten a decent backup to push Ben. And yes, the SF game was a mistake, but hopefully this team learns from its mistakes.

SteelerJay
12-29-2012, 09:48 AM
maybe some of you don't watch the caliber of qb play in the rest of the league to understand what a poor job our qb did this year....not saying it's all his fault, definitely injuries and new OC contributed significantly to this season's demise

but if there's going to be that bravado of the 'standard is the standard' and that the Steelers simply reload every year, well one has to be able to take the criticism when it crashes

harrison'samonster
12-29-2012, 09:53 AM
but if there's going to be that bravado of the 'standard is the standard' and that the Steelers simply reload every year, well one has to be able to take the criticism when it crashes

those are just sayings. In reality, like Steeltheone said, Ben has been our only QB that gives us a consistent chance at winning. I like Batch and Lefty, but they are backups.

I agree with you that there have been mistakes. But I can't possibly see how these two are killing this team.

SteelerJay
12-29-2012, 10:03 AM
ok, so Ben is a 100 million dollar qb in this league, with the likes of Peyton and Eli, Brady, Rivers etc.

new crop of qb's in the league - Newton, Griffin, Luck, Wilson, Tannehill etc... - all looking great

Ben should be in his prime all now...... is he?

StainlessStill
12-29-2012, 10:31 AM
Unbearable. Unreadable. My skull can't handle it anymore. Stupidity.

Here's the thing, we beat Cleveland Sunday, we go 8-8. .500. That's not a losing season. You have SUFFERING franchise's (like Cleveland) who put on 4-5 win seasons yearly and rarely EVER sniff a playoff positioning. Our SUFFERING of a franchise, in our most PITIFUL of seasons, are 8-8, .500 records. I really don't think some of you would be worthy enough to go through shit like most fanbase's do.

We're in a transition year. A season like this was bound to happen. This team is WAY too talented not to rebound. I expect our coach's to act accordingly, fix the problem and go to work.

As for Ben, just some weeks ago, he was getting recognition of being the league's MVP for Christ sake! The team hit a pot-hole, Ben went down with injury and we were never the same. Lets give this team a chance to gel as an offense for consecutive seasons before writing guys like Ben Roethlisberger off!

Shame shame.

Bill Cowher's Jaw
12-29-2012, 10:34 AM
ok, so Ben is a 100 million dollar qb in this league, with the likes of Peyton and Eli, Brady, Rivers etc.

new crop of qb's in the league - Newton, Griffin, Luck, Wilson, Tannehill etc... - all looking great

Ben should be in his prime all now...... is he?


He was looking pretty good until the injury so yeah..I'd say he's in his prime. Look, there's no use crying over spilled milk. He sucked after he returned from injury. We missed the playoffs because of him. Fine. But it's over now. Move on to next year. To say he's "killing the franchise" is just silly. Would you rather have Flacco, Cutler, or one of those other middle-of-the-road guys? I wouldn't. And yeah Luck, Wilson, and RG3 look good now (Newton and Tannehill don't) but let's see how many Super Bowls they get their team to over the next decade before we "crown their asses"

GoFor7
12-29-2012, 10:44 AM
He was looking pretty good until the injury so yeah..I'd say he's in his prime. Look, there's no use crying over spilled milk. He sucked after he returned from injury. We missed the playoffs because of him. Fine. But it's over now. Move on to next year. To say he's "killing the franchise" is just silly. Would you rather have Flacco, Cutler, or one of those other middle-of-the-road guys? I wouldn't. And yeah Luck, Wilson, and RG3 look good now (Newton and Tannehill don't) but let's see how many Super Bowls they get their team to over the next decade before we "crown their asses"

Come now, these people won't accept that. They gotta bash the star QB relentlessly and run him out of town like they did with Bradshaw.

desertsteel
12-29-2012, 10:55 AM
He was looking pretty good until the injury so yeah..I'd say he's in his prime.
Yeah I'd say he was MVP until the injury. If not, he was top 3. The wheels came off after he came back. That's life sometimes. But to say that he, and Tomlin, are "KILLING THE FRANCHISE" is more than ridiculous IMO.

torpedoshell31
12-29-2012, 11:03 AM
When we drafted Ben back in 2004, the buzz around town was that one day he might lead the Steelers to a Super Bowl. After 25 years of not being in one, just the the thought of the Steelers actually playing in another one was almost too much to dream. The fact that Ben has led us to 3 Super Bowls, winning 2 of them was beyond our wildest dreams back in 2004.
He has the 2nd highest winning pct. in NFL playoff history, trailing only Bart Starr. Yet there is people actually saying that he should be benched so Charlie Batch or Byron Leftwich can take over?

LayingTheWoodley56
12-29-2012, 11:04 AM
maybe some of you don't watch the caliber of qb play in the rest of the league to understand what a poor job our qb did this year....not saying it's all his fault, definitely injuries and new OC contributed significantly to this season's demise

but if there's going to be that bravado of the 'standard is the standard' and that the Steelers simply reload every year, well one has to be able to take the criticism when it crashes

This is the second idiotic thing I've seen from you. Ben actually carried us through portions of the season and was playing at an extremely high level - perhaps the highest of his career - before his injury. People conveniently have forgotten that he may not have been fully healthy when he came back, and he still made some big plays. The disasterous interceptions and lack of late-game heroics do need to be cleaned up.

We're lucky to have him. Still.

SteelerJay
12-29-2012, 11:18 AM
maan...you folks are missing the point...the entire season's 'body of work' gets destroyed by these two stubborn individuals; no one is saying there will not be down years, but when you have the ingredients and opportunity to make something greater and you blow it in the manner that these did....it leaves a bad hangover

Bill Cowher's Jaw
12-29-2012, 11:24 AM
maan...you folks are missing the point...the entire season's 'body of work' gets destroyed by these two stubborn individuals; no one is saying there will not be down years, but when you have the ingredients and opportunity to make something greater and you blow it in the manner that these did....it leaves a bad hangover

Yeah but ya don't have to whine about it.

SteelerJay
12-29-2012, 11:25 AM
This is the second idiotic thing I've seen from you. Ben actually carried us through portions of the season and was playing at an extremely high level - perhaps the highest of his career - before his injury. People conveniently have forgotten that he may not have been fully healthy when he came back, and he still made some big plays. The disasterous interceptions and lack of late-game heroics do need to be cleaned up.

We're lucky to have him. Still.

Hey, he's definitely the best we've had since Terry...but you made my point - he's having an MVP-type season, gets hurt, and both he and Tomlin figures he still gives the Steelers the best chance to win, regardless that the facts proved otherwise. Here's the deal...he's hurt, he cannot play up to the winning level BUT he's left in. Then when the season goes up in flames, all you brainiacs claim that's because he's hurt.

Tomlin and Ben have done this repeatedly...O'Donnell buried in our history for two boneheaded picks in SB; Ben's two picks this year in two games are no different

pittpete
12-29-2012, 11:33 AM
http://theblacksentinel.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/stupid_idiots_big.jpg

SteelersCanada
12-29-2012, 11:35 AM
I read the title and thought to myself "I wonder if this is going to be an incoherent babbling session from a fan that hasn't been through a tough season before and is going to be butthurt.". Needless to say, I was pretty spot on.

zshelhamer
12-29-2012, 11:43 AM
You're right, I hate having Ben and Tomlin. I would rather have Sanchez and Ryan.

Or Fitzpatrick and Gailey.

Or Rivers and Turner.

We have one mediocre season and you think Ben and Tomlin are killing our franchise? We are LUCKY to have Ben and Tomlin.

OX1947
12-29-2012, 11:44 AM
Ok, I think things are getting a little carried away now. What's next? Big Ben is Carson Palmer and Tomlin is Dennis Allen of the Steelers?

silver & black
12-29-2012, 11:50 AM
As an opposing fan........................ :rofl:

Ricco Suavez
12-29-2012, 12:04 PM
Is it a coincidence that the OP started the Two Draft pick thread, I think not. He must of had his little feelings hurt because he had to take some ribbing from other teams fans. When you are a fan of the Steelers there are going to witch hunts after a mediocre season, get used to it. And as far as if Ben and Tomlin bringing down the franchise, we survived some pretty mediocre QBs and Cowher DID have some losing seasons. I just thank God that the Rooneys are in charge and do not panic every time a season or player does not pan out. Like I have said Tomlin is here for a while UNLESS he decides to call it a career here.

casteeler
12-29-2012, 12:17 PM
Ben is a great QB,Tomlin is a Jagoff.I only agree 50%

desertsteel
12-29-2012, 12:41 PM
maan...you folks are missing the point...the entire season's 'body of work' gets destroyed by these two stubborn individuals; no one is saying there will not be down years, but when you have the ingredients and opportunity to make something greater and you blow it in the manner that these did....it leaves a bad hangover


Ok...

To SteelerJay this season = the franchise

Can I ask how old you are?

Fire Arians
12-29-2012, 01:00 PM
guys i have the answer, SIGN CARSON PALMER!

MACH1
12-29-2012, 01:14 PM
Ok...

To SteelerJay this season = the franchise

Can I ask how old you are?

Apparently not old enough to remember the '80's.

SteelerJay
12-29-2012, 01:15 PM
This is the team that lost to the great Tim Tebow last year in the playoffs...Ben could not do it then either, just like Tomlin...

I guess Tim's in the damn Pro bowl this year, huh? ...couldn't get on the field with the mighty Jets....

Blacksburg Zach
12-29-2012, 01:26 PM
guys i have the answer, SIGN CARSON PALMER!

And while we are at it, let's sign Dennis Allen, and then maybe he will win with "Tomlin's players.":chuckle:

Ricco Suavez
12-29-2012, 01:31 PM
This is the team that lost to the great Tim Tebow last year in the playoffs...Ben could not do it then either, just like Tomlin...

I guess Tim's in the damn Pro bowl this year, huh? ...couldn't get on the field with the mighty Jets....

I may be fuzzy about that playoff game but i think the pass defense may have had something to do with that game. Tebow 10 completions and 316 yards. Seems to me they gave up the big play big time to a QB that struggled most of the year to put up points, and we gave up 29. But by all means put it all on Ben and Tomlin. It fits your train of thought. if your thoughts was a train wreck.

SteelerJay
12-29-2012, 01:31 PM
Apparently not old enough to remember the '80's.

Guys, I remember the 80's...we didn't have a 100 million dollar qb then (ok...no 50 million dollar guy at those rates) so losing with Stoudt/Malone etc was not unexpected..

Losing with Kent Graham and Mike Tomczak was easier

Kordell's loss in AFC Champ game was tough...and hey, he was benched into 3rd game the next year...Ben is turning out to be the gift that keeps on giving...One SB win btw.. in Cowher's only SB win, Ben threw for 109 yards...Randle El threw that TD to Ward as you all know...

Ben is overrated...he is good, competitive and tough, but not great....I know, it's tough to swallow, but it ought not to be

Ricco Suavez
12-29-2012, 01:33 PM
And while we are at it, let's sign Dennis Allen, and then maybe he will win with "Tomlin's players.":chuckle:

Or Gruden he won with Dungys players. To be honest though Gruden seems to be a pretty good coach, would not take long for him to be a goat here.

Ricco Suavez
12-29-2012, 01:35 PM
Guys, I remember the 80's...we didn't have a 100 million dollar qb then (ok...no 50 million dollar guy at those rates) so losing with Stoudt/Malone etc was not unexpected..

Losing with Kent Graham and Mike Tomczak was easier

Kordell's loss in AFC Champ game was tough...and hey, he was benched into 3rd game the next year...Ben is turning out to be the gift that keeps on giving...One SB win btw.. in Cowher's only SB win, Ben threw for 109 yards...Randle El threw that TD to Ward as you all know...

Ben is overrated...he is good, competitive and tough, but not great....I know, it's tough to swallow, but it ought not to be

Lets be honest you love Flacco.:rofl:

steeltheone
12-29-2012, 02:04 PM
The Denver game was another example of of the " young money crew" disappearing act and Demaryius Thomas ( a true number 1 ) stepping up when needed.

Thomas has shown up with 2 different qb's 2 different systems and a big game on the line.

Bill Cowher's Jaw
12-29-2012, 02:18 PM
One SB win btw.. in Cowher's only SB win, Ben threw for 109 yards...Randle El threw that TD to Ward as you all know...


One Super Bowl win? What?

Plus, he threw for 123 yards in XL if we're gonna nit-pick stats from years ago.

And we totally wouldn't have been in that game to begin with if Ben didn't tear it up in the three playoff games that proceeded that Super Bowl.

But yeah I guess since we missed the playoffs this year he's killing the franchise. Frankly I wish we didn't draft him in '04 and just rode Tommy Maddox out until the end.

Bill Cowher's Jaw
12-29-2012, 02:20 PM
I may be fuzzy about that playoff game but i think the pass defense may have had something to do with that game. Tebow 10 completions and 316 yards. Seems to me they gave up the big play big time to a QB that struggled most of the year to put up points, and we gave up 29. But by all means put it all on Ben and Tomlin. It fits your train of thought. if your thoughts was a train wreck.

Well I know SteelerJay is trolling but to play Devil's Advocate for a minute, Ben does deserve some blame for that Tebow loss. Certainly not all the blame like he deserves for SB45 or this recent loss to the Bengals, but some of the blame.

SteelerJay
12-29-2012, 02:23 PM
Top ten reasons why Ben failed to get it done: note, it's never Ben's fault

10) The OC sucks...play calling was bad

9) The receivers could not get open

8) The Head Coach sucks

7) No running game or capable running backs

6) Offensive line can't block for beans

5) Defense can't get off the field on 3rd down

4) RB failed to pick up block

3) The special teams were poor

2) Receivers dropped passes

1) The QB was rusty, he didn't get enough reps during the week as he was hurt

SteelersCanada
12-29-2012, 02:27 PM
Let's let the attention ***** get his 15 minutes and laugh it off. It's ok, though, all fanbases have it's fair share of morons.

Ricco Suavez
12-29-2012, 02:40 PM
Top ten reasons why Ben failed to get it done: note, it's never Ben's fault

10) The OC sucks...play calling was bad

9) The receivers could not get open

8) The Head Coach sucks

7) No running game or capable running backs

6) Offensive line can't block for beans

5) Defense can't get off the field on 3rd down

4) RB failed to pick up block

3) The special teams were poor

2) Receivers dropped passes

1) The QB was rusty, he didn't get enough reps during the week as he was hurt

I would say other than numbers 1 and 5 you are pretty much right.

TheVet
12-29-2012, 02:43 PM
When we drafted Ben back in 2004, the buzz around town was that one day he might lead the Steelers to a Super Bowl. After 25 years of not being in one, just the the thought of the Steelers actually playing in another one was almost too much to dream. The fact that Ben has led us to 3 Super Bowls, winning 2 of them was beyond our wildest dreams back in 2004.
He has the 2nd highest winning pct. in NFL playoff history, trailing only Bart Starr. Yet there is people actually saying that he should be benched so Charlie Batch or Byron Leftwich can take over?

Remember that the Steelers made it to the Jan 96 Super Bowl, but we tend to forget that one. :)

But for sure, how can people forget the three decades of journeymen QBs that have dropped by to stink up Three Rivers Stadium? Since Ben arrived, we've had a top tier QB, and we're always a potential contender. Now he's in his prime. It doesn't get better than this on the QB front.

Bill Cowher's Jaw
12-29-2012, 02:57 PM
Top ten reasons why Ben failed to get it done: note, it's never Ben's fault

10) The OC sucks...play calling was bad

9) The receivers could not get open

8) The Head Coach sucks

7) No running game or capable running backs

6) Offensive line can't block for beans

5) Defense can't get off the field on 3rd down

4) RB failed to pick up block

3) The special teams were poor

2) Receivers dropped passes

1) The QB was rusty, he didn't get enough reps during the week as he was hurt

Dude, you don't seem to get it. Everybody concedes that missing the 2012 playoffs is all Ben's fault. But what everyone is saying is that doesn't equate to "killing the franchise." In fact, to have a coach/QB foundation like Tomlin/Ben is a great thing. There's only a few teams that have a coach/QB tandem that are on the same page, have had success, and are respected by the rest of the team in both victory and defeat. The Patriots, Saints, Giants, and Packers are like the only other teams that have that.

Tough season, dude. But get over it and move on. You wouldn't last a day as a Dolphins fan or something like that. You'd cry yourself to sleep.

steelerchad
12-29-2012, 03:19 PM
ok, so Ben is a 100 million dollar qb in this league, with the likes of Peyton and Eli, Brady, Rivers etc.
\
new crop of qb's in the league - Newton, Griffin, Luck, Wilson, Tannehill etc... - all looking great

Ben should be in his prime all now...... is he?

Did you just say Newton and Tannehill had great seasons? LMAO. Newton was last year's RG3 and he pretty much sucked this year. RG3 was incredible this year, lets see if he can do it again or go the way of Newton and regress as teams catch up to his playing style or knock him the hell out. With his style he'll be lucky to make it 5 or 6 seasons. Tannehill had 12 TD's and 12 INT's with a 76 QBR and this is great in your opinion.

Ben had 23 td, 8int's, and a QBR of 95.5, which was 6th in the league behind only top tier QB's Rodgers, Brady, P Manning. And 2 newbies Ryan and RG3. Ben was terrible after the injury, but was having a pro bowl type year until then. Injuries to top tier QB's derail most teams and we're no different. Our backup QB situation is worse than most and you wanted to go with Batch or Lefty if Ben can play. No way we're in the Dallas game with either of those guys.

desertsteel
12-29-2012, 03:27 PM
guys i have the answer, SIGN CARSON PALMER!

Let's make sure we give up a couple #1 picks too...


trolololol

PATS16N0
12-29-2012, 03:29 PM
RG3 is the next Michael Vick. He plays in the `find way to lose`, most dysfunctional division in the league.

He's played flakey NFC teams. You put him against AFC defenses and he won't play again for 5 weeks.

Just look at the Redskins schedule
http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/schedule.html

They played a bunch of flakey footnote teams in the kind of games a flakey Vickesque quarterback could look good in.
The one time they played a real team,a hard nosed AFC team (Pittsburgh) and not some candy ass NFC east team they got crushed. Steelers completely shut RG3 down and made him look clueless, and this wasn't even a healthy, A-grade Pittsburgh defense.

Sorry but RG3 is hype and highlights.

Good player if you don't have a franchise quarterback but don't expect him to win Superbowls or break records. He'll be Vick in 5 years.

lardlad
12-29-2012, 03:53 PM
Being -14 in turn overs might have something to do with it? Ben threw some bad picks but this season is on the receivers and the rb's.

Ricco Suavez
12-29-2012, 04:18 PM
Being -14 in turn overs might have something to do with it? Ben threw some bad picks but this season is on the receivers and the rb's.

He threw 8 in all his games, Lefty and Batch and Antonio Brown threw 6. Bens bad picks were amplified because A. he is the franchise QB, B. we have gotten used to and expect him to pull off a comeback, and C. they came at the end of or was the end of the game.

TRH
12-29-2012, 04:56 PM
RG3 is the next Michael Vick. He plays in the `find way to lose`, most dysfunctional division in the league.

He's played flakey NFC teams. You put him against AFC defenses and he won't play again for 5 weeks.

Just look at the Redskins schedule
http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/schedule.html

They played a bunch of flakey footnote teams in the kind of games a flakey Vickesque quarterback could look good in.
The one time they played a real team,a hard nosed AFC team (Pittsburgh) and not some candy ass NFC east team they got crushed. Steelers completely shut RG3 down and made him look clueless, and this wasn't even a healthy, A-grade Pittsburgh defense.

Sorry but RG3 is hype and highlights.

Good player if you don't have a franchise quarterback but don't expect him to win Superbowls or break records. He'll be Vick in 5 years.


I agree with you to a point.

I think both Andrew Luck AND Russell Wilson have outplayed him this year (i called Russell Wilson my sleeper pick of the entire draft well before the season started).
Yet - RGIII keeps getting most of the accolades, press, and being fawned all over. You can't watch ESPN or ESPN2 for 5 minutes w/out hearing an "RGIII" story and about the next one coming up in 10 minutes.

I do think Griffin is very good - although i think his reckless style might get him nearly killed at some point soon. He's just due to be injury prone for his career. I'd be surprised if he stays healthy.

PATS16N0
12-29-2012, 05:08 PM
I agree with you to a point.

I think both Andrew Luck AND Russell Wilson have outplayed him this year (i called Russell Wilson my sleeper pick of the entire draft well before the season started).
Yet - RGIII keeps getting most of the accolades, press, and being fawned all over. You can't watch ESPN or ESPN2 for 5 minutes w/out hearing an "RGIII" story and about the next one coming up in 10 minutes.

I do think Griffin is very good - although i think his reckless style might get him nearly killed at some point soon. He's just due to be injury prone for his career. I'd be surprised if he stays healthy.

I hate ESPN :hatsoff:

teegre
12-29-2012, 05:57 PM
He threw 8 in all his games, Lefty and Batch and Antonio Brown threw 6. Bens bad picks were amplified because A. he is the franchise QB, B. we have gotten used to and expect him to pull off a comeback, and C. they came at the end of or was the end of the game.

Remember: BB only threw 4 before the injury... and then 4 (in just three games) once he returned from & played with an injury.

Operative word: injury.

Ricco Suavez
12-29-2012, 06:37 PM
Remember: BB only threw 4 before the injury... and then 4 (in just three games) once he returned from & played with an injury.

Operative word: injury.

I am a Ben backer, but I have not brought up any injury that may have affected his play. If he says hes healthy, if Doctors say he is healthy, then he should be expected to perform. I understand the bad (make that horrible) ints. he threw the last couple games but some make out like he was a turnover machine, thus the reason I point out he only had 8 all year while his backups in limited or select opportunities had almost as many at 6. Ben was playing at a high level before his MAJOR injury, we were running the ball somewhat effective, and Ben was absolutely the BEST in the league on third downs 9 games into the season. He failed the last games, not because of ego, or stubbornness, or trying to show up Haley. He either was off and never regained his game, the lack of running game finally caught up to the offense, or Haleys GPlan was solved by other teams DC.

Or, perhaps it was a combination of these and other aspects that lead to a horrible finish.

PhantomJB93
12-29-2012, 06:46 PM
Teams in NFL with better HC-QB duos than us:

Patriots
Packers
Saints with Payton

And that's it.

I'm honestly getting really tired of the knee-jerk stupidity around here. We had a bad season, get over it. If you're not happy with a top 5 coach and a top 5 QB, go be a Browns fan.

Riddle_Of_Steel
12-29-2012, 06:53 PM
I am a Ben backer, but I have not brought up any injury that may have affected his play. If he says hes healthy, if Doctors say he is healthy, then he should be expected to perform. I understand the bad (make that horrible) ints. he threw the last couple games but some make out like he was a turnover machine, thus the reason I point out he only had 8 all year while his backups in limited or select opportunities had almost as many at 6. Ben was playing at a high level before his MAJOR injury, we were running the ball somewhat effective, and Ben was absolutely the BEST in the league on third downs 9 games into the season. He failed the last games, not because of ego, or stubbornness, or trying to show up Haley. He either was off and never regained his game, the lack of running game finally caught up to the offense, or Haleys GPlan was solved by other teams DC.

Or, perhaps it was a combination of these and other aspects that lead to a horrible finish.

Ben is a new parent.....

New parents average about 3 hours a sleep per night when there is a newborn in the house.

We should have known Ben was not going to be on his "A" game when the announcement was made back in August, that his son would be born around early December.

I was worried about it back then and this is why.

Riddle_Of_Steel
12-29-2012, 06:54 PM
Teams in NFL with better HC-QB duos than us:

Patriots
Packers
Saints with Payton

And that's it.

I'm honestly getting really tired of the knee-jerk stupidity around here. We had a bad season, get over it. If you're not happy with a top 5 coach and a top 5 QB, go be a Browns fan.

Exactly.

Ben will be back to form again next season.

teegre
12-29-2012, 07:09 PM
I am a Ben backer, but I have not brought up any injury that may have affected his play. If he says hes healthy, if Doctors say he is healthy, then he should be expected to perform. I understand the bad (make that horrible) ints. he threw the last couple games but some make out like he was a turnover machine, thus the reason I point out he only had 8 all year while his backups in limited or select opportunities had almost as many at 6. Ben was playing at a high level before his MAJOR injury, we were running the ball somewhat effective, and Ben was absolutely the BEST in the league on third downs 9 games into the season. He failed the last games, not because of ego, or stubbornness, or trying to show up Haley. He either was off and never regained his game, the lack of running game finally caught up to the offense, or Haleys GPlan was solved by other teams DC.

Or, perhaps it was a combination of these and other aspects that lead to a horrible finish.

We agree.

Bayz101
12-29-2012, 07:40 PM
This is your second thread bitching about Ben and your first (to my knowledge) bitching about Tomlin. I'm keeping tabs. :doh:

torpedoshell31
12-29-2012, 08:03 PM
Remember that the Steelers made it to the Jan 96 Super Bowl, but we tend to forget that one. :)

But for sure, how can people forget the three decades of journeymen QBs that have dropped by to stink up Three Rivers Stadium? Since Ben arrived, we've had a top tier QB, and we're always a potential contender. Now he's in his prime. It doesn't get better than this on the QB front.

Wow, I totally forgot about the Neil O'Donnell debacle, I guess it was too painful to keep in my memory.

steel striker
12-29-2012, 08:50 PM
Some people need to get a grip Ben has pulled out alot of big wins for this team. Like mentioned by many Ben was having one best seasons til he got hurt in the game against KC. Cut the man some slack and, it was not all his fault. Tomlin did make some errors as well it has been well documented. Reload for next year and, the injury bug does not bite us again.

SteelCityMom
12-29-2012, 09:10 PM
Teams in NFL with better HC-QB duos than us:

Patriots
Packers
Saints with Payton

And that's it.

I'm honestly getting really tired of the knee-jerk stupidity around here. We had a bad season, get over it. If you're not happy with a top 5 coach and a top 5 QB, go be a Browns fan.

Yeah, and the Saints are going to have either a .500 or losing season.

Looks like Brees and Payton are killing that franchise. :chuckle:

Lady Steel
12-29-2012, 11:11 PM
Tomlin and Ben are killing the franchise? As Myron Cope would say, "Yoi." :doh:

Jay, do you know anything at all about the Pittsburgh Steelers organization?

Hawaii 5-0
12-29-2012, 11:51 PM
Tomlin and Ben are killing the franchise? As Myron Cope would say, "Yoi." :doh:

Jay, do you know anything at all about the Pittsburgh Steelers organization?


Jay, you're killing me...:doh:

therocksteeler
12-30-2012, 03:42 AM
[QUOTE=SteelerJay;1071147]Guys, I remember the 80's...we didn't have a 100 million dollar qb then (ok...no 50 million dollar guy at those rates) so losing with Stoudt/Malone etc was not unexpected..

Losing with Kent Graham and Mike Tomczak was easier

Kordell's loss in AFC Champ game was tough...and hey, he was benched into 3rd game the next year...Ben is turning out to be the gift that keeps on giving...One SB win btw.. in Cowher's only SB win, Ben threw for 109 yards...Randle El threw that TD to Ward as you all know...

Ben is overrated...he is good, competitive and tough, but not great....I know, it's tough to swallow, but it ought not to be[/QUOT

I have to completely disagree with you here.

jb500ex
12-30-2012, 05:35 AM
I may be fuzzy about that playoff game but i think the pass defense may have had something to do with that game. Tebow 10 completions and 316 yards. Seems to me they gave up the big play big time to a QB that struggled most of the year to put up points, and we gave up 29. But by all means put it all on Ben and Tomlin. It fits your train of thought. if your thoughts was a train wreck.

Ben was terrible against Denver and when we could have kicked a fg to win big dumb dumb held the ball and took a huge sack. He has not been very good for years now. As good as everyone says he was at the beginning of the year we still didn't s ore a lot Nd look at the teams we lost to

jb500ex
12-30-2012, 05:38 AM
Teams in NFL with better HC-QB duos than us:

Patriots
Packers
Saints with Payton

And that's it.

I'm honestly getting really tired of the knee-jerk stupidity around here. We had a bad season, get over it. If you're not happy with a top 5 coach and a top 5 QB, go be a Browns fan.

Denver
giants

Ricco Suavez
12-30-2012, 06:51 AM
Denver
giants

Giants, Please, Eli has sucked worst then anyone this year. Read the Giants forum they would trade him and Coughlin. An sorry Ben can't pull the game out for the Defense when they do actually suck.

LW56
12-30-2012, 08:58 AM
Guys, I remember the 80's...we didn't have a 100 million dollar qb then (ok...no 50 million dollar guy at those rates) so losing with Stoudt/Malone etc was not unexpected..

Losing with Kent Graham and Mike Tomczak was easier


Ben is overrated...he is good, competitive and tough, but not great....I know, it's tough to swallow, but it ought not to be

Man, this is all screwed up. If Ben wasn't a million dollar QB like Graham and Tomczak then "killing the franchise" is acceptable? After the awesome resurgence of the 70's the Pittsburgh Steelers franchise was being put to death in the 80's regardless.

I will say however that I believe that while Ben is a good qb...the best since Bradshaw, he certainly is not elite.
Ben displays brilliance, then resorts to head scratching buffoonery.
Elite QB's are more consistent in the brilliace dept.

A Tom Brady or a Joe Montana would not have missed a wide open mike Wallace in the Super Bowl.
An elite QB would not have thrown game losing ints in back to back must win games.

Sure people say that everyone was to blame (it's a team sport blah, blah), but elite QBs are supposed to be the leaders, they're supposed to bring teams back from that type of adversity, not add to it.

GoFor7
12-30-2012, 09:01 AM
Man, this is all screwed up. If Ben wasn't a million dollar QB like Graham and Tomczak then "killing the franchise" is acceptable? After the awesome resurgence of the 70's the Pittsburgh Steelers franchise was being put to death in the 80's regardless.

I will say however that I believe that while Ben is a good qb...the best since Bradshaw, he certainly is not elite.
Ben displays brilliance, then resorts to head scratching buffoonery.
Elite QB's are more consistent in the brilliace dept.

A Tom Brady or a Joe Montana would not have missed a wide open mike Wallace in the Super Bowl.
An elite QB would not have thrown game losing ints in back to back must win games.

Sure people say that everyone was to blame (it's a team sport blah, blah), but elite QBs are supposed to be the leaders, they're supposed to bring teams back from that type of adversity, not add to it.

Maybe Ben's team should let him win the game early instead of waiting until the last 2 minutes....

AndyWitmyer
12-30-2012, 09:31 AM
Ben is a new parent.....

New parents average about 3 hours a sleep per night when there is a newborn in the house.

We should have known Ben was not going to be on his "A" game when the announcement was made back in August, that his son would be born around early December.

I was worried about it back then and this is why.

As a new parent, I can vouch for this. The 3 hours of sleep thing is absolutely true. Two weeks after my little girl was delivered...and only for the first time yesterday night, have I gotten more than 4 hours of consecutive sleep. I did not sleep at all tonight, which is not unusual.

Ben being a new dad - and its short term impact on his performance - has to be considered.

LW56
12-30-2012, 09:55 AM
Maybe Ben's team should let him win the game early instead of waiting until the last 2 minutes....

Exactly. Because Ben is not as good as his idol was.

Not sure, but I believe John Elway...the elite QB with a #7 on his jersey... was a master at 4th qtr. comebacks.

Ricco Suavez
12-30-2012, 10:57 AM
Exactly. Because Ben is not as good as his idol was.

Not sure, but I believe John Elway...the elite QB with a #7 on his jersey... was a master at 4th qtr. comebacks.

These kind of statements are what really tick me off. No basis what so ever. Elway was the MASTER huh, I am going to put up Bens numbers for the first 9 years of his career against the MASTER.

Ben 125 games record of 86-39
Elway 130 games record of 81-48-1

Ben 2359 of 3739 attempts 63.1%
Elway 2201 of 4023 54.7%

Ben 188 TDs 108 Ints
Elway 148 Tds 140 Ints

Ben QB rating of 92.5 for his career
Elway at that time his low was 55 and his high was 84, far from a 92.5 average.

MASTER of the 4th Qtr Comeback (Elway) 26 game winning drives
Ben the same 26 Game winning drives.

Do not count Ben out yet, yea be disappointed in this year but like Elway his best years may be to come.

GoFor7
12-30-2012, 11:08 AM
Didn't Elway have to deal with the same shit Ben does? A team that dumbs him down because they're enamored with a style of football that didn't work? Didn't the Broncos play scared, close to the vest Marty ball too? And at some point, didn't they realize they could no longer do that and Elway won super bowls?

Maybe the Steelers should learn from that. This offseason will tell us weather the Steelers value winning or value being right.

Ricco Suavez
12-30-2012, 11:24 AM
Didn't Elway have to deal with the same shit Ben does? A team that dumbs him down because they're enamored with a style of football that didn't work? Didn't the Broncos play scared, close to the vest Marty ball too? And at some point, didn't they realize they could no longer do that and Elway won super bowls?

Maybe the Steelers should learn from that. This offseason will tell us weather the Steelers value winning or value being right.

To be honest I think Elway and the Broncos got better when Terrell Davis had his outstanding seasons. I mean the two SB years he had 1750 and 2008 yards. Those kind of numbers take a ton of pressure off your passing game. Their defense was not too shabby those years either 6th and 8th overall.

Elway has been gone long enough that everyone only remembers his last two season and went out a winner. He completed less than 57% of his passes, a career QB rating of less than 80% and a TD to INT ratio of 3 to 2.2, not exactly stellar numbers. But the Team played his style and it got them to several SBs winning two.

Lady Steel
12-30-2012, 12:04 PM
Jay, you're killing me...:doh:

What did we do wrong in raising our children? :chuckle:

Wallace17
12-30-2012, 12:16 PM
You are crazy on saying ben is killing us. Not his fault its the play calling......

Haley needs to go.
Tomlin sucks and has never done anything for us. The team has done on there own, all tomlin did was win the franchise lottery when he was hired.

Bring back the chin and wisenhut!

plenewken
12-30-2012, 12:18 PM
Another brilliant start by the Steelers and Ben's been lucky to not being intercepted on another stupid pass.

Hawaii 5-0
12-30-2012, 12:21 PM
Tomlin sucks and has never done anything for us.

well, there is that Super Bowl victory...

http://blog.pennlive.com/patriotnewssports/2009/01/large_tomlin_trophy.jpg

LLoyd&Greene
12-30-2012, 12:25 PM
well, there is that Super Bowl victory...

http://blog.pennlive.com/patriotnewssports/2009/01/large_tomlin_trophy.jpgTomlin gets no credit for any of the success that the team has had since he became HC, he only gets the blame for the things that have gone wrong.

plenewken
12-30-2012, 12:30 PM
Tomlin gets no credit for any of the success that the team has had since he became HC, he only gets the blame for the things that have gone wrong.

I'm watching the game and saw another brilliant display of offensive mastery by our coaching staff. <sigh>
I suggest we sign Tomlin and Haley to our practice squad to learn what to do with the talent they have.

defence
12-30-2012, 12:31 PM
Anyone watching this shit today will know who is killing this team. Haley is a joke!! Tomlin better open his eyes or it eventually will be his ass out the door

LLoyd&Greene
12-30-2012, 12:35 PM
I'm watching the game and saw another brilliant display of offensive mastery by our coaching staff. <sigh>
I suggest we sign Tomlin and Haley to our practice squad to learn what to do with the talent they have.Tomlin is the HC not the co-offensive coordinator. Tomlin isn't calling the plays smart guy.

plenewken
12-30-2012, 12:39 PM
Tomlin is the HC not the co-offensive coordinator. Tomlin isn't calling the plays smart guy.

No but he's Haley's boss and if he lets this crap happen week in and week out, he's responsible too.

LLoyd&Greene
12-30-2012, 12:42 PM
No but he's Haley's boss and if he lets this crap happen week in and week out, he's responsible too.So what is he supposed to do to stop Haley from doing the job that he was hired to do? Do you think that it was Tomlin's decision to bring him in in the 1st place?

defence
12-30-2012, 12:49 PM
So what is he supposed to do to stop Haley from doing the job that he was hired to do? Do you think that it was Tomlin's decision to bring him in in the 1st place?

Bro; you do realize the hc is responsible for everything right?? As I said in an earlier post. Tomlin better wake up before haley costs him his job

plenewken
12-30-2012, 12:50 PM
Do you think that it was Tomlin's decision to bring him in in the 1st place?

If Tomlin has no control over his staff, including hiring them and manage them, then he's not HC.

LLoyd&Greene
12-30-2012, 01:19 PM
Bro; you do realize the hc is responsible for everything right?? As I said in an earlier post. Tomlin better wake up before haley costs him his jobTomlin is not responsible for Haley's offensive scheme or play calling. Haley is not going to cost Tomlin his job.

If Tomlin has no control over his staff, including hiring them and manage them, then he's not HC.
Except that Tomlin is the HC though. Where were you before the season when it was being reported that Tomlin wanted to keep Arians only for the Rooney family to force Arians out and force Tomlin to hire Haley? Tomlin never denied wanting to keep Arians either.

defence
12-30-2012, 01:26 PM
Tomlin is not responsible for Haley's offensive scheme or play calling. Haley is not going to cost Tomlin his job.


Except that Tomlin is the HC though. Where were you before the season when it was being reported that Tomlin wanted to keep Arians only for the Rooney family to force Arians out and force Tomlin to hire Haley? Tomlin never denied wanting to keep Arians either.

Yup!! Tomlin doesn't over see the gameplans!! Lol!!:thumbsup:

Lady Steel
12-30-2012, 01:30 PM
Tomlin is not responsible for Haley's offensive scheme or play calling. Haley is not going to cost Tomlin his job.


Except that Tomlin is the HC though. Where were you before the season when it was being reported that Tomlin wanted to keep Arians only for the Rooney family to force Arians out and force Tomlin to hire Haley? Tomlin never denied wanting to keep Arians either.

You are absolutely correct. The Rooneys forced Arians out.

Tomlin wanted Hines gone. Still miss his smile and spirit.

I'm getting all nostalgic today. End of season blues, I guess.

LLoyd&Greene
12-30-2012, 02:29 PM
You are absolutely correct. The Rooneys forced Arians out.

Tomlin wanted Hines gone. Still miss his smile and spirit.

I'm getting all nostalgic today. End of season blues, I guess.It was time for Hines to begin his post-football career. Perk up, we will be back next year much improved. I'm confident of that.Yup!! Tomlin doesn't over see the gameplans!! Lol!!:thumbsup:Well the game plan and play calling are 2 different things.

MACH1
12-30-2012, 02:33 PM
It was time for Hines to begin his post-football career. Perk up, we will be back next year much improved. I'm confident of that.Well the game plan and play calling are 2 different things.

If Tomlin see's that something isn't working it's his job to correct and adjust is it not?

PhantomJB93
12-30-2012, 02:50 PM
A Head Coach is not a freaking dictator. Tomlin does not have absolute control over every aspect of this team, nor does any HC in the NFL. He does not have complete control over how the players perform on the field. He has significant input for sure, but he is not some guy playing Madden with an xbox controller and controlling everything that happened with this team this year.

I swear, by some of the logic I see on these boards, there is no reason for any assistant coaches to have jobs since Tomlin does everything for them anyway, and Tomlin plays every position on the field as well so we might as well cut the whole roster.

MACH1
12-30-2012, 02:54 PM
A Head Coach is not a freaking dictator. Tomlin does not have absolute control over every aspect of this team, nor does any HC in the NFL. He does not have complete control over how the players perform on the field. He has significant input for sure, but he is not some guy playing Madden with an xbox controller and controlling everything that happened with this team this year.

I swear, by some of the logic I see on these boards, there is no reason for any assistant coaches to have jobs since Tomlin does everything for them anyway, and Tomlin plays every position on the field as well so we might as well cut the whole roster.

I'm sure Cowher would tell you different.

So Tomlin is just supposed to sit there with his thumb up his ass because he is powerless to make adjustments or corrections?

LLoyd&Greene
12-30-2012, 02:55 PM
If Tomlin see's that something isn't working it's his job to correct and adjust is it not?So what was he supposed to do? Strip Haley of his play calling duties and call the plays himself? Fire Haley? What did you people want Tomlin to do concerning the offense?

defence
12-30-2012, 03:32 PM
I'm sure Cowher would tell you different.

So Tomlin is just supposed to sit there with his thumb up his ass because he is powerless to make adjustments or corrections?

No I think his job is to just stand there and collect a pay cheque. When you offence stinks as bad as this one; maybe he should have a little more input on what plays are being called. NO???? I see no passion in this team; and quite frankly; thank god it's over. It's not my descisions what Tomlin does this off season; but one thing is for sure. Haley is a joke and had we been playing anyone other than the browns today; we'd be 7 and 9. 3 straight runs with a 7 point lead inside there 10. Playing scared all year. For the people who want to use injuries as an excuse. EVERY team has them. We were hit hard; but ultimately what I saw today was what alot of people have been saying all year. Piss ass play calling!!

fer522
12-30-2012, 04:00 PM
A Head Coach is not a freaking dictator. Tomlin does not have absolute control over every aspect of this team, nor does any HC in the NFL. He does not have complete control over how the players perform on the field. He has significant input for sure, but he is not some guy playing Madden with an xbox controller and controlling everything that happened with this team this year.

I swear, by some of the logic I see on these boards, there is no reason for any assistant coaches to have jobs since Tomlin does everything for them anyway, and Tomlin plays every position on the field as well so we might as well cut the whole roster.

So if we use your analogy then Tomlin should get very little credit for Super Bowl 43(win)and 45(loss):noidea:

AndyWitmyer
12-30-2012, 07:57 PM
These kind of statements are what really tick me off. No basis what so ever. Elway was the MASTER huh, I am going to put up Bens numbers for the first 9 years of his career against the MASTER.

Ben 125 games record of 86-39
Elway 130 games record of 81-48-1

Ben 2359 of 3739 attempts 63.1%
Elway 2201 of 4023 54.7%

Ben 188 TDs 108 Ints
Elway 148 Tds 140 Ints

Ben QB rating of 92.5 for his career
Elway at that time his low was 55 and his high was 84, far from a 92.5 average.

MASTER of the 4th Qtr Comeback (Elway) 26 game winning drives
Ben the same 26 Game winning drives.

Do not count Ben out yet, yea be disappointed in this year but like Elway his best years may be to come.

I really, REALLY hate to say this, but seriously... a disturbing number of Steeler fans seem to experience bouts of selective memory and/or collective amnesia; maybe more so than any fan base in the NFL today.

Before Be's injury: "Ben is having a career season. With our sh!tty D, this year's team would probably be among the worst in the league...if fact, without Ben, the Steelers would be lucky to win 5 of this year's teams. He's an elite QB that gives us our best chance to win - maybe our only chance!"

Post-Injury: "Tomlin and Ben are killing this franchise. He's a worthless and overrated QB."

:doh:

LVSteelersfan
12-30-2012, 08:24 PM
Man, this is all screwed up. If Ben wasn't a million dollar QB like Graham and Tomczak then "killing the franchise" is acceptable? After the awesome resurgence of the 70's the Pittsburgh Steelers franchise was being put to death in the 80's regardless.

I will say however that I believe that while Ben is a good qb...the best since Bradshaw, he certainly is not elite.
Ben displays brilliance, then resorts to head scratching buffoonery.
Elite QB's are more consistent in the brilliace dept.

A Tom Brady or a Joe Montana would not have missed a wide open mike Wallace in the Super Bowl.
An elite QB would not have thrown game losing ints in back to back must win games.

Sure people say that everyone was to blame (it's a team sport blah, blah), but elite QBs are supposed to be the leaders, they're supposed to bring teams back from that type of adversity, not add to it.

People have pretty short memories. Brady has thrown game losing INTs or fumbles almost every year since the last time they won a Super Bowl. He had the ball last and blew it many times. EVERY QB makes boneheaded mistakes to lose games. EVERY SINGLE ONE even the so-called elite.

lipps83
12-30-2012, 08:34 PM
ok, so Ben is a 100 million dollar qb in this league, with the likes of Peyton and Eli, Brady, Rivers etc.

new crop of qb's in the league - Newton, Griffin, Luck, Wilson, Tannehill etc... - all looking great

Ben should be in his prime all now...... is he?

I think this is the most ill-conceived post I have read on this forum, my own posts included. In one breath you say this:

The problem is, when their game is off, they can kill a season. They have killed more seasons than Super Bowls.

Then you go on to say this:

ok, so Ben is a 100 million dollar qb in this league, with the likes of Peyton and Eli, Brady, Rivers etc.

new crop of qb's in the league - Newton, Griffin, Luck, Wilson, Tannehill etc... - all looking great

You do realize that with the exception of Eli, Big Ben (whom according to you is partly responsible for ruining this franchise, and I don't see how one 8-8 season ruins a franchise), has won the most recent super bowl of all the QB's you have mentioned?

lipps83
12-30-2012, 08:39 PM
People have pretty short memories. Brady has thrown game losing INTs or fumbles almost every year since the last time they won a Super Bowl. He had the ball last and blew it many times. EVERY QB makes boneheaded mistakes to lose games. EVERY SINGLE ONE even the so-called elite.

You are right. Everyone remembers Joe Montana hitting receivers at the end of the game to win. They don't remember the incompletes before that because they are not memorable. That doesn't mean they didn't happen.

They act like they never through an incomplete pass or a game ending interception.

THEY ALL DO AND DID.

lloydwoodson
12-30-2012, 11:34 PM
I really, REALLY hate to say this, but seriously... a disturbing number of Steeler fans seem to experience bouts of selective memory and/or collective amnesia; maybe more so than any fan base in the NFL today.

Before Be's injury: "Ben is having a career season. With our sh!tty D, this year's team would probably be among the worst in the league...if fact, without Ben, the Steelers would be lucky to win 5 of this year's teams. He's an elite QB that gives us our best chance to win - maybe our only chance!"

Post-Injury: "Tomlin and Ben are killing this franchise. He's a worthless and overrated QB."

:doh:

Do you know who else has a short term memory? Ben Roethlisberger.

Know how I know? Because he forgot that he was on his way to a career year and potential MVP season right before he ran his mouth about Haley's poor playcalling and inability to design plays for key players, and the lack of a no-huddle offense.

austinfrench76
12-31-2012, 12:03 AM
I'm super confused by the thread title, some of the thread posts and the stats that contradict points that people are trying to make (???), I guess. I will go elsehwere.

AndyWitmyer
12-31-2012, 04:11 AM
Do you know who else has a short term memory? Ben Roethlisberger.

Know how I know? Because he forgot that he was on his way to a career year and potential MVP season right before he ran his mouth about Haley's poor playcalling and inability to design plays for key players, and the lack of a no-huddle offense.

Sometimes, when people complain, their concerns are legitimate. Just saying. Ben's been to three Super Bowls under two different coaches and systems. I get the impression that he's got a better grasp of knowing when things are going to work out over the long haul or not than you, me, and probably anyone else on this board.

Ben didn't have a short term memory this year so much as a handful of unwarranted opinions, and a bum rib. It happens. Even the best QBs in this league will have some not-so-great seasons, not-so-great games, not-so-great injuries, and some not-so-great public statements - all of which are things that they would surely love to forget - but guess what, that is life, my friend. So...get over it. :thumbsup:
:coffee:

plenewken
12-31-2012, 06:48 AM
Sometimes, when people complain, their concerns are legitimate. Just saying. Ben's been to three Super Bowls under two different coaches and systems. I get the impression that he's got a better grasp of knowing when things are going to work out over the long haul or not than you, me, and probably anyone else on this board.

Ben didn't have a short term memory this year so much as a handful of unwarranted opinions, and a bum rib. It happens. Even the best QBs in this league will have some not-so-great seasons, not-so-great games, not-so-great injuries, and some not-so-great public statements - all of which are things that they would surely love to forget - but guess what, that is life, my friend. So...get over it. :thumbsup:
:coffee:

How many legitimate Pro Bowl nominations does Ben have? How many seasons has he ranked in the top 5 in the League?
These 2 elements illustrate Ben's own skills and achievements, not team achievements.

Yes, Ben has 2 SB rings ......... so does Charlie Batch. Just sayin' ....... Based on his performance in the 3 Superbowls he played, Ben should consider himself very lucky to play for the Steelers, not the other way around.

Ben has never been ranked higher than 7th in passing yds. He once ranked 3rd in number of TDs, the rest is in the 2 digits rankings. He's a top 20% QB in the League. no question, but elite? Nope. Even with the weak schedule we had this season (and next season), Ben didn't make an impact.

I don't see $100M worth of production from Ben, sorry. I don't want to see him gone but I'm not creaming my pants watching him play.

You Ben fans tell me what I'm missing.

Ricco Suavez
12-31-2012, 09:02 AM
How many legitimate Pro Bowl nominations does Ben have? How many seasons has he ranked in the top 5 in the League?
These 2 elements illustrate Ben's own skills and achievements, not team achievements.

Yes, Ben has 2 SB rings ......... so does Charlie Batch. Just sayin' ....... Based on his performance in the 3 Superbowls he played, Ben should consider himself very lucky to play for the Steelers, not the other way around.

Ben has never been ranked higher than 7th in passing yds. He once ranked 3rd in number of TDs, the rest is in the 2 digits rankings. He's a top 20% QB in the League. no question, but elite? Nope. Even with the weak schedule we had this season (and next season), Ben didn't make an impact.

I don't see $100M worth of production from Ben, sorry. I don't want to see him gone but I'm not creaming my pants watching him play.

You Ben fans tell me what I'm missing.


What you are missing about our 100M QB ( oh how you love to trot that out every post) is just what a bargain he really is. I looked up some QB salaries around the league and I will be glad to see some more recent figures if someones can find them but from Feb of this year here was the QB salaries that were Cap Hits.

1 Peyton 17M at that time. I do not have figures for his current deal.
2. Brady 15.2
3 Eli 15.2
4. Stafford 14.5
5 Sanchez 14.2
6. Romo 14 (how bout those last two)
7. Rivers 13.9 (just keeps getting better)
8.Vick 13.9 (Where's Ben if these three clowns are here)
9. Ryan 13 ( Great season player, no show come playoff time)
10 Carson Palmer 12.5 (WTF)
11. Ben 11.7 (AH a bargain at number 11)

BTW these numbers were before Brees had signed a deal so you can imagine that he is high if not at the top. I assume Peyton signed for less but I also imagine he still would be top 10, So you see Haters we get our investment back at QB position compared to the rest of the league. Everybody can't sign a rookie to a rrokie contract and expect playoffs every year like Luck and RGII, and don't forget they were number 1 and 2 both signed pretty good contract them selves.

harrison'samonster
12-31-2012, 09:14 AM
Wow! Sanchez and Vick are the two I'm most surprised about. What were the Jets and the Eagles thinking?

By comparison Ben is definitiely a great deal

Ricco Suavez
12-31-2012, 09:17 AM
Found on Forbes top 100 paid players there was 30 NFL players, Ben was ranked #42 overall. I did not know but Ben does not have the highest salary on the Steelers, that honor belongs to Lamar Woodley holding down the number 31 spot.

steelfury02
12-31-2012, 09:29 AM
Found on Forbes top 100 paid players there was 30 NFL players, Ben was ranked #42 overall. I did not know but Ben does not have the highest salary on the Steelers, that honor belongs to Lamar Woodley holding down the number 31 spot.

ive hated on Ben plenty since his return from injury - but, Lamar certainly needs to restructure his contract - that's a lot of zingerz and star crunches

The_Joker
12-31-2012, 09:38 AM
Looks like a looooooot of our boys are on the brink. Hope we can keep Hampton...

Terminator
12-31-2012, 09:53 AM
Hope we can keep Hampton...



:toofunny::toofunny::toofunny::toofunny::toofunny: :toofunny::toofunny:

plenewken
12-31-2012, 10:25 AM
What you are missing about our 100M QB ( oh how you love to trot that out every post) is just what a bargain he really is. I looked up some QB salaries around the league and I will be glad to see some more recent figures if someones can find them but from Feb of this year here was the QB salaries that were Cap Hits.

1 Peyton 17M at that time. I do not have figures for his current deal.
2. Brady 15.2
3 Eli 15.2
4. Stafford 14.5
5 Sanchez 14.2
6. Romo 14 (how bout those last two)
7. Rivers 13.9 (just keeps getting better)
8.Vick 13.9 (Where's Ben if these three clowns are here)
9. Ryan 13 ( Great season player, no show come playoff time)
10 Carson Palmer 12.5 (WTF)
11. Ben 11.7 (AH a bargain at number 11)

BTW these numbers were before Brees had signed a deal so you can imagine that he is high if not at the top. I assume Peyton signed for less but I also imagine he still would be top 10, So you see Haters we get our investment back at QB position compared to the rest of the league. Everybody can't sign a rookie to a rrokie contract and expect playoffs every year like Luck and RGII, and don't forget they were number 1 and 2 both signed pretty good contract them selves.

Two (or more) wrongs don't make one right. Ben has already (or will) drop further down the list, with the next wave of QBs like RGIII, Luck etc.....

He's paid what someone was willing to pay him several years ago but I wouldn't be surprised if his contract is renegotiated as some point in the near future.

He's not only far from being a superstar in his sport, he's not even recognized as a figure in the Pittsburgh community.

Sorry to rant but I'm not drinking the Ben kool-aid.

Ricco Suavez
12-31-2012, 10:40 AM
Two (or more) wrongs don't make one right. Ben has already (or will) drop further down the list, with the next wave of QBs like RGIII, Luck etc.....

He's paid what someone was willing to pay him several years ago but I wouldn't be surprised if his contract is renegotiated as some point in the near future.

He's not only far from being a superstar in his sport, he's not even recognized as a figure in the Pittsburgh community.

Sorry to rant but I'm not drinking the Ben kool-aid.

Don't fully understand the hate, but that is your cross to bear. I just like to refute yours and others "facts", such as the overpaid part. You are correct that two wrongs do not make a right but teams will pay the value of the players based on the league and from what i just showed is that Ben is indeed a "bargain " at where he is being paid. I compare Elways play to Ben through first 9 seasons and it shows that Ben is far superior, with years to come that no one knows the outcome. Does Ben slide, or does he get better with age as Elway did. It remains to be seen. You and others like to point out our defense, and while near or at the top for some time, it is not the first time in franchise history. Before Ben was QB how did all those great defenses fair come playoff time. Loss after loss piled up in the AFCCG and the one lone time the Steelers made it to the SB was when we had a QB that had a very good season as far as passing, O'donnell. I like to see our recent successes as a partnership between both the Defense and the Offense, as well as Coaching staff, and Special teams. In other words the entire team, now if others on here tout Ben to the point it has created a hatred toward him then I can understand, but to put the blame on every season that does not end with a SB on Ben is wrong as well.

rpbncb
12-31-2012, 10:40 AM
JB 93 a top 5 coach??? huh ?? get me some of whatever it is you're smoking !!

Lord of Lombardi
12-31-2012, 01:31 PM
This post proves that someone must be lookiing for the Stoopid board

StevieRayVol
12-31-2012, 01:35 PM
Big Ben was having an MVP type year before he got injured...An injury Doctors said.."COULD HAVE KILLED HIM"...Think after he came back that thought wasn't in the back of his mind when he was running from some 300 lber's with mayhem in mind..:wave: Next year he's healthy, the offensive line is healthy and maybe we get Mendy back..."GO STEELERS"!

plenewken
12-31-2012, 02:00 PM
Don't fully understand the hate, but that is your cross to bear. I just like to refute yours and others "facts", such as the overpaid part. You are correct that two wrongs do not make a right but teams will pay the value of the players based on the league and from what i just showed is that Ben is indeed a "bargain " at where he is being paid. I compare Elways play to Ben through first 9 seasons and it shows that Ben is far superior, with years to come that no one knows the outcome. Does Ben slide, or does he get better with age as Elway did. It remains to be seen. You and others like to point out our defense, and while near or at the top for some time, it is not the first time in franchise history. Before Ben was QB how did all those great defenses fair come playoff time. Loss after loss piled up in the AFCCG and the one lone time the Steelers made it to the SB was when we had a QB that had a very good season as far as passing, O'donnell. I like to see our recent successes as a partnership between both the Defense and the Offense, as well as Coaching staff, and Special teams. In other words the entire team, now if others on here tout Ben to the point it has created a hatred toward him then I can understand, but to put the blame on every season that does not end with a SB on Ben is wrong as well.

There's no hate whatsoever. I'm just not in awe like some Forum members are.
Ben is a pretty good QB, but IMO, he's not elite and his numbers tend to prove it.
After 8 seasons, I think Ben doesn't have what Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers have and what Bradshaw had, neither technically, nor mentally.
I'm talking about pure talent, work ethic and attitude on and off the field.

I'll be the first to eat crow if it happens but I'm not confident he'll lead the Steelers to a 7th Superbowl, and much less with the HC and OC we have now.

Sorry but that's my opinion.

Fire Haley
12-31-2012, 02:20 PM
The Rooneys were fools to fuck with Ben by bringing in some loser OC to "teach him a lesson".

Trying to make Ben a game manager behind a dink and dink ball control offense was the dumbest idea in the world

fansince'76
12-31-2012, 02:20 PM
After 8 seasons, I think Ben doesn't have what Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers have and what Bradshaw had, neither technically, nor mentally.
I'm talking about pure talent, work ethic and attitude on and off the field.

Bradshaw - LOL.

Roethlisberger would get SLAUGHTERED if he threw as many picks as Bradshaw habitually did. But, then Bradshaw was never appreciated either until we had to endure a few years of the likes of Stoudt/Malone/Brister.

SteelCurtainCall
12-31-2012, 03:24 PM
Some of you keep talking about the Denver game, and how we lost to Tebow,ect. Ben was playing with a high ankle sprain. I went to MED MD's web site before the game to try to understand what a high ankle sprain actually was. Ben missed 2 games with his before returning to play Denver. The doctors who wrote papers about the injury for the web site, said that NO ONE should return from the injury for a minimum of 6 to 8 weeks. It's almost like having a broken lower leg. But Ben carried his self out there in Denver's freezing weather, and gave it his all while scrammbling for his life on most plays.

His rib injury was, as someone else stated; one of the most rare injuries that one can sustain, and it IS LIFE THREATENING! We all might think we know what the players feel like, but look at what many of the older players are going through now. Brain injuries, and some can hardly get out of bed each day. Ben has played hurt so many times I can't count them all. Brady, Manning, or Rodgers could not play behind some of the make shift lines that Ben has played behind.

The Patriots have lost both SB's to the Giants because Brady was pressured most of the day. Peyton looses games when he is pressured badly. I'm not saying that Ben doesn't hold onto the ball too long SOMETIMES; but many times he's running for his life before he even has time to set. He is a unique QB.

Many times I find myself wishing he was more fundamental, but to say he's not been a big part in bringing the Lombardi back to steel town is pure crap. He is THE toughest QB in the league, and probably the only one who could have played during any NFL era. I'm saddened as many of you are, that we won't be in the post season, but the Steelers are still the greatest team in pro football, and we'll be back just like Arnold was.:tt04:

Ricco Suavez
12-31-2012, 03:42 PM
It is not fair to compare Ben to TB, not fair to Terry anyway. Terry threw as many INTs as TD for his career. The 1978 season the team went 14-2 and TB had 28 TDs and 20 INTs, you would be crazy if you did not believe that defense did'nt cover up a lot of the QB play. Different eras, different NFL. and different teams. Compared to the rest of the NFL at that time the Steelers were head and shoulders above nearly every team. Not from TB alone, but from the entire team, RB, WR, OL, Defense. That team won close games but played some very low scoring games as well, 15-9, 7-6, 7-10, 13-3. It was not all smooth sailing. I watched four SBs and chewed my nails every one. We had some years were TB was hurt and the defense took over games. No Ben is not Peyton, Brees, Brady, Rodgers, or TB but he is pretty damn good. Not drinking kool-aid just enough common sense to know that the odds of getting someone better than Ben is on the slim side.

fansince'76
12-31-2012, 03:49 PM
It is not fair to compare Ben to TB, not fair to Terry anyway. Terry threw as many INTs as TD for his career. The 1978 season the team went 14-2 and TB had 28 TDs and 20 INTs, you would be crazy if you did not believe that defense did'nt cover up a lot of the QB play. Different eras, different NFL. and different teams. Compared to the rest of the NFL at that time the Steelers were head and shoulders above nearly every team. Not from TB alone, but from the entire team, RB, WR, OL, Defense. That team won close games but played some very low scoring games as well, 15-9, 7-6, 7-10, 13-3. It was not all smooth sailing. I watched four SBs and chewed my nails every one.

This. Remember how bad Gerela sucked?

SteelCurtainCall
12-31-2012, 08:38 PM
You talk about Manning being an elite QB, and he certainly is; but he threw the losing interception in the SB againt the Saints. He threew it right to the defender. Does that make Peyton a franchise losing QB? He cost his team the SB, if you want to look at it that way. Ben is such a bad QB some of you say, but he has 2 SB rings to Peytons 1, and Bree's 1, and Rodgers 1.

You say Ben should thank the Steelers he is a member, and thank them for the rings? If it weren't for Ben extending plays; we would have never even been there. Our OL is virtually decimated every year by playoff time. If Brady, Manning, Brees, ect took the beatings that Ben takes during the year; they wouldn't be so strong during the game either. Ben takes a friggin' beating every year. You know what; I'm thru defending Ben; think what you want, but I'm glad we have him. He may not be THE best; but he is an elite NFL QB, that's tough as nails.

lloydwoodson
12-31-2012, 08:53 PM
The Rooneys were fools to fuck with Ben by bringing in some loser OC to "teach him a lesson".

Trying to make Ben a game manager behind a dink and dink ball control offense was the dumbest idea in the world

Really? Ben as a game manager was good enough to win SB XL.

Steelers went 26-7 with Ben his first 2 seasons when he was a game manager and won a superbowl. I personally would love to see him back in that role. It is best for the team.

lloydwoodson
12-31-2012, 09:00 PM
You talk about Manning being an elite QB, and he certainly is; but he threw the losing interception in the SB againt the Saints. He threew it right to the defender. Does that make Peyton a franchise losing QB? He cost his team the SB, if you want to look at it that way. Ben is such a bad QB some of you say, but he has 2 SB rings to Peytons 1, and Bree's 1, and Rodgers 1.

You say Ben should thank the Steelers he is a member, and thank them for the rings? If it weren't for Ben extending plays; we would have never even been there. Our OL is virtually decimated every year by playoff time. If Brady, Manning, Brees, ect took the beatings that Ben takes during the year; they wouldn't be so strong during the game either. Ben takes a friggin' beating every year. You know what; I'm thru defending Ben; think what you want, but I'm glad we have him. He may not be THE best; but he is an elite NFL QB, that's tough as nails.

Ben has never won a superbowl without a top 10 defense. Aikman and Montana never won a superbowl without a top 10 defense either. What made the Niners and the Cowboys a dynasty is that they were able to provide their teams with top 10 offenses as well.

P Manning is an ironman. He played in over 220 consecutive games. Sorry he doesn't fit your model of "toughness." Go watch clips of Brady getting hit. He gets ROCKED and pops back up like nothing happened. Spare me your folklore.

Ben is not killing the franchise. No one is killing the franchise. That is ludicrous.

Ben is dividing the team. The offensive side of the ball is filled with young players. They will improve and the offense will improve with them. Ben questioning coaches sets a TERRIBLE example. Roethlisberger has never been a leader and he is continuing to be the opposite. His intangibles SUCK.

If Roethlisberger never gave another interview I would be ECSTATIC. If he has something to say to Haley say it to his FACE. Roethlisberger is almost as bad/dumb as Mendenhall. And I know how much everyone likes Mendenhall.

OX1947
12-31-2012, 09:11 PM
Ben's ability isnt what is costing the Steelers playoff berths. It is his attitude and lousy work ethic. Every game is a gamble. A man with his skills and ability should be able to take this team with the #1 defense every year to the playoffs at the VERY least. He has missed the playoffs 3 times in 7 years. And each of those times there is always something he fucks up at. Whether its riding a motorcycle or having issues with coaches or having ding dongs in a bar bathroom, he has carried himself like a dick hole his entire career.

Just because he says "its on me" doesn't mean he is telling the truth. As a matter of fact, most of the time he is full of shit and is speaking the words of a agent or publicist.

Edman
12-31-2012, 09:22 PM
When Ben says "It's On Me", it IS bullshit.

Ben will gladly say the lipservice, but he doesn't make a real effort to become better, and to improve his offense and lead his teammates, so they DON'T make the same mistakes again. Ben wants to be treated as a man and a leader, but he doesn't lead competently and by example. The Steelers Offense is starving for a leader and a veteran face, and he's still stuck in "I do what I do" Mode.

I don't see teammates wanting to play lights out on the field for Ben or step up their game for him, I think they just see them as a guy they want to hang out with after the game in a bar or something.

GoFor7
12-31-2012, 09:56 PM
I don't see teammates wanting to play lights out on the field for Ben or step up their game for him, I think they just see them as a guy they want to hang out with after the game in a bar or something.

And you know this how....?

But you're right. It's Ben's fault the Loose Change Crew drop all those passes.

Ricco Suavez
12-31-2012, 10:37 PM
And you know this how....?

But you're right. It's Ben's fault the Loose Change Crew drop all those passes.

I did not understand how all this inside information is gathered. I mean Ben says he is sorry, or its his fault and he is crying crocodile tears, and I guess when team mates like Heath, Keisel, Pouncey, Starks and others tell the media that they have Bens back and that he has theirs , then that is more BS since we cannot believe them, because he is just their buddy. Strange reasoning.:doh:

GoFor7
12-31-2012, 10:39 PM
I did not understand how all this inside information is gathered. I mean Ben says he is sorry, or its his fault and he is crying crocodile tears, and I guess when team mates like Heath, Keisel, Pouncey, Starks and others tell the media that they have Bens back and that he has theirs , then that is more BS since we cannot believe them, because he is just their buddy. Strange reasoning.:doh:

Wait a minute! Those guys are all buddies with Ben......?


CUT THEM NOW! NO ONE IS BUDDY-BUDDY WITH BEN ON THIS TEAM!

desertsteel
01-01-2013, 10:37 AM
RG3 is the next Michael Vick. He plays in the `find way to lose`, most dysfunctional division in the league.

He's played flakey NFC teams. You put him against AFC defenses and he won't play again for 5 weeks.

Vaunted defenses like the Pat's 25th ranked defense???

SteelCurtainCall
01-01-2013, 11:36 AM
why don't you go find a team with ALL the players you like, and go support them. You claim to be a steelers fan; yeah right. What did you do when Ben found Santonio in the end zone for the game winner? He actually laid one right in his hands on the previous play. I guess you said " man Ben sucks. I never said Manning wasn't a tough player, so you can stick the "folk lore" reference anywhere you like. And Brady; my God they call roughing the passer if someone even breathes on Brady. I'll bet you bragged about the steelers after both SB victories they had recently; maybe not though, you would have had to admit that Ben "just might" have helped in some small way to get there and then win.

Ricco Suavez
01-01-2013, 11:59 AM
Hate is such a harsh feeling, some like to search for any blog, article, stat , that can be used to justify their hate. The truth lies not with Bens numbers, wins, his contributions to the team. It lies with what is viewed as his persona, (one has even mentioned douche bag), his off field exploits, even the fact that he is mentioned with the only other great QB of this organization TB. These people when confronted with facts or opinions proving otherwise seek like minds to continue to berate Ben. All those comments mean very little to me, cause without a QB of Bens quality we went through 25 years of Malones, Bristers , and even Kordell (who I thought did very well at times) and in those 25 years only once did we make it to the big game (even with the coach who could do no wrong, Cowher) in Bens 9 years and 3 SB appearances and 2 wins later it appears Ben was just along for the ride. Well if that is the case I hope he is around for 9 more with the same results.

Edman
01-01-2013, 12:04 PM
And you know this how....?

But you're right. It's Ben's fault the Loose Change Crew drop all those passes.

But Ben is the supposed "Changed Man" and emerged as a "leader" in the Steelers locker room. He should take a little more responsibility for his offense, but he doesn't. He wants to be regarded as a field general, a leader and a great guy but doesn't lead his unit competently. He doesn't lead by example or inspire his teammates to step up their game. Look no further at his propensity for finger-pointing and pot-shots at Haley in the media. That should tell you everything about Ben's "leadership". He showed his true colors after the Dallas game (another game in which he threw down the shitter), that's why he was so quick to apologize, so people and media won't think any less of him as a good guy. Too late, we already know what you said, Ben. The writing is on the wall. You are a douche.

"I'll do it like this, but if anything goes wrong, it's not my fault." That's Ben's attitude. It's unprofessional, irresponsible, and reeks of incompetence. Okay, that's fine. Haley handles the Offense from here on out, and you have no responsibilities. Haley will get the blame when the Offense screws up, not you, but from here on out, you will be regarded as an overpaid underachiever second-tier Quarterback.

Like I said, the Steelers Offense is desperate for true leadership, and Ben seems satisfied being mediocre while the Defense covers up for him. Those who are unwilling to lead shouldn't be given responsibiliity. Back to "Game Manager" mode for Mr. Roethlisberger.

SteelersCanada
01-01-2013, 12:06 PM
So, before Ben's injury he was playing at an MVP level. When he comes back and is struggling he's being labeled as having a shitty attitude and not caring? That's quite the jump, but one I'm not surprised a lot of you made. Super Bowl or bust and we have to find someone to scapegoat losses on so why shouldn't it be Ben?

GoFor7
01-01-2013, 12:07 PM
But Ben is the supposed "Changed Man" and emerged as a "leader" in the Steelers locker room. He should take a little more responsibility for his offense, but he doesn't. He wants to be regarded as a field general, a leader and a great guy but doesn't lead his unit competently. He doesn't lead by example or inspire his teammates to step up their game. Look no further at his propensity for finger-pointing and pot-shots at Haley in the media. That should tell you everything about Ben's "leadership".

So because Ben is supposedly a big jerk, the receivers drop balls? Yeah, that makes sense.

Ben already is a leader on the offense, the problem is the young guys don't listen. And that's on them, not Ben.

"I'll do it like this, but if anything goes wrong, it's not my fault." That's Ben's attitude. It's unprofessional, irresponsible, and incompetent.

Like I said, the Steelers Offense is desperate for true leadership, and Ben is just unwilling to do it.

Right, because Ben never took the blame for the last two losses. Even after he called out Haley for the play calling in Dallas he still admitted he made a bad throw in OT and cost the team.

Sometimes the truth gets in the way, doesn't it?

Ricco Suavez
01-01-2013, 12:12 PM
And Brady has never had blowups with his OCs, and Peyton never threw his OL under the bus, Haley and Boldin had a famous exchange on the sidelines. Players are not going to agree with their coaches or team mates all the time. As far as a leader, that only comes into play when things are not going well, (hey you need someone to blame) I might be mistaken but every player, every coach, are paid professionals. They are paid to do their jobs, now if they are failing due to lack of effort, a cheerleader is not going to remedy the problem, that is the coaches job, maybe even a group of veterans, not just the QB. If they are failing because of one or two players not doing their job, then I would expect the coaches to handle that. I have rarely seen Ben even point a finger at a team mate, while on the other hand Brady has made sure that everyone knows its not his fault by pitching his little fits on the field, guess that is what a "real" leader is.

lloydwoodson
01-03-2013, 02:40 AM
And Brady has never had blowups with his OCs, and Peyton never threw his OL under the bus, Haley and Boldin had a famous exchange on the sidelines. Players are not going to agree with their coaches or team mates all the time. As far as a leader, that only comes into play when things are not going well, (hey you need someone to blame) I might be mistaken but every player, every coach, are paid professionals. They are paid to do their jobs, now if they are failing due to lack of effort, a cheerleader is not going to remedy the problem, that is the coaches job, maybe even a group of veterans, not just the QB. If they are failing because of one or two players not doing their job, then I would expect the coaches to handle that. I have rarely seen Ben even point a finger at a team mate, while on the other hand Brady has made sure that everyone knows its not his fault by pitching his little fits on the field, guess that is what a "real" leader is.

Peyton threw his OL under the bus in 2006 one time. In that game he was sacked 5 times. Peyton Manning is the hardest qb to sack in the NFL.

His career sack % is 3.1. In the game he complained about it was 11.6. Peyton was sacked 4 more times than he was used to and he called out his UDFA line.

Once. 7 years ago.

Please state some more negative media coverage Peyton has generated.

Yeah Peyton Manning... the bad boy of the NFL :toofunny:

Who cares about a blowup on the sidelines with an OC? It is in the heat of the battle. It is expected. Trashing your OC to the media is 100% different than yelling at him to his face. Don't play dumb please.