PDA

View Full Version : If not Ben, then who?


Ricco Suavez
12-29-2012, 04:24 PM
I read a lot of disappointment and some hate on the forums about Ben and I would like to know who some of you think we can replace him with. I don't want to read a bunch of crap of trading Ben for Brees, Luck, RGIII, or some pie in the sky trade that has very little chance of happening. I want to know who in the upcoming draft, or free agent, or some down on his luck QB (like Sanchez) that their team would like to trade for Ben. I mean some of you are so fed up with him lets hear a strategy that will let us move on from him.

GoFor7
12-29-2012, 04:47 PM
I read a lot of disappointment and some hate on the forums about Ben and I would like to know who some of you think we can replace him with. I don't want to read a bunch of crap of trading Ben for Brees, Luck, RGIII, or some pie in the sky trade that has very little chance of happening. I want to know who in the upcoming draft, or free agent, or some down on his luck QB (like Sanchez) that their team would like to trade for Ben. I mean some of you are so fed up with him lets hear a strategy that will let us move on from him.

Did yinzer nation provide the name of another QB when they wanted to run Bradshaw out of town?

Some of them might not want a star QB at all. They want to go back to being about running and defense - a.k.a. 90's football. It's the preferred style of yinzer nation, but it hasn't won them anything.

Ricco Suavez
12-29-2012, 04:50 PM
GF7, I just want to give some folks a chance to put a plan out there, I mean some are hell bent to get rid of him. I just want the FO to read some of their great ideas on how to do so. (It is a fact that the FO got rid of Arians from reading Steelers Forum) OK I made up that last part, but I have read something along those lines.

TRH
12-29-2012, 04:51 PM
nobody. I hear what you're saying - but in reality 15 poeple who are "unhappy" (ah...poor them) in online forums doesn't matter. And i'm sure our front office, Tomlin, Haley, and the rest aren't losing sleep over what a couple of people "online" say.
He's here - he's one of the best - and barring a very serious injury, will be for quite awhile.

That said - i DO think the time has come to look for a decent, strong backup QB. We've went far too long with unsatisfactory backups. I think you'll see the team make a move here this offseason. Actually, they probably have to, i don't even think they have a choice.
And i'm sure for the first time, even though its fairly distant amount of time away, the front office is probably throwing ideas around of how, when, and what type of guy they'll go after when they're ready to groom their next #1. In these days, there is no "multi-year" wait while a QB 'learns'. Most are ready to go day 1.

Darkstorm05
12-29-2012, 05:18 PM
There really is nobody else out there to do the job at his level. Only 4 or 5 guys in the NFL are an actual upgrade, and there's zero chance of getting any of them. Even if you wanted to take a guy who's a tier lower but younger to go forward, none of them are up for grabs either. Luck, RGIII, etc., are going to be locked down by their franchises.

In reality, the highest quality guys you're likely to get hold of would be Sanchez, maybe Palmer, or Brandon Weedon if he gets cut loose next year when they get new coaches. These guys are bottom 15 starters, but that's all we'd have a realistic shot at getting in here. No thanks.

I would expect a late round draft pick in the next draft to be a backup QB. About 3 to 5 seasons from now I expect we'll see the window open to begin looking for Ben's replacement.

Ricco Suavez
12-29-2012, 05:27 PM
I participated in a thread before the draft and I am on record as saying I thought we should draft a QB. I really hoped Cousins or Wilson would of been available in the later rounds but evidently they were thought of as high or higher than I did and it shows. I have no problem drafting a young player, just wish we would us it one who can be more of a pocket passer and not one who leans toward a running threat.........ala....Dennis Dixon

objectivefan
12-29-2012, 05:29 PM
In my opinion, Ben is one of the top 5 QBs in the league. Maybe he is going into his later years, and I m not even sure if that is true, but come on! We will see how painful life can be when Ben is no longer on this football team. THe NFL is no longer a running/def league. Ben has won two SBs, yes one he played like shit but the other he won! Collective deep breath, keep Ben HEALTHY and the north is ours next year.

harrison'samonster
12-29-2012, 05:36 PM
I definitely don't want to see BB go, and I don't think he will be easily replaceable.

I agree, I would like to see us going after a QB in the draft, but definitely a pocket passer type. Qb's running in the NFL only get hurt. I don't know any other solid backups out there who is available like a Kyle Orton?

Does anybody know if Batch or Leftwich actually plan on retiring? I think the Steelers will still keep them if they could. I think we need to keep one of them, and it doesn't matter to me which one (I think they are both good backups).

teegre
12-29-2012, 05:47 PM
I am assuming that this is a "hypothetical" questions... as in: If BB retired today...???

Because, there is no QB that I prefer to BB....
...although, I'd possibly trade for Andrew Luck.

[Luck is nine years younger.]

So, if he BB were to retire, I'd trade everything to acquire Andrew Luck. This year's R1, R2, R3, and next year's R1 & R2 picks. Alas, that still would not do it.

SILVER LINING
The Steelers still have those five picks, to use, to surround BB with more talent... like a couple of safeties, a couple of LBs, and maybe even a tall WR or something.

SteelersCanada
12-29-2012, 06:00 PM
Newton. Give him our young offensive line and our receiving talent (with Da'Rick Rogers or Robert Woods) and he'd blossom.

nj1923steelgirl
12-29-2012, 06:02 PM
BB is our QB he is one of the best in the NFL...right now we could not get anyone close to him.....what we need is a quality back up.

ZoneBlitzer
12-29-2012, 06:04 PM
I just want a smart Ben. He's got enough years under his belt to not be making the mistakes and bad decisions that he's been making.

That's all. Is that too much to ask for?

Is it too much to ask to hit the open receiver instead of the low percentage 40 yard strike down the field?

Is it too much to ask to hit the check down to keep the offense in rhythm and plays on the positive side?

Is it too much to ask for to run for 1 yard to get a first down to keep drives alive?

Is it too much to ask to throw the ball away or go down on occasion to live for another day?

Ben has all the talent and tools to be a sound and efficient QB. He should not be pressing at this stage in his career. He should not be throwing game-killing INTs in games. You would think his head would be in the game and that he would be able to judge situations better. But he hasn't done that of late.

The core element to the position is decision making. And I expect a QB of his experience to be making good ones.

Neil-Still-Rules-14
12-29-2012, 06:24 PM
Hopefully Batch retires, Leftwich sticks around, and they draft a QB in a later round to eventually replace Leftwich.

Ricco Suavez
12-29-2012, 06:28 PM
I just want a smart Ben. He's got enough years under his belt to not be making the mistakes and bad decisions that he's been making.

That's all. Is that too much to ask for?

Is it too much to ask to hit the open receiver instead of the low percentage 40 yard strike down the field?

Is it too much to ask to hit the check down to keep the offense in rhythm and plays on the positive side?

Is it too much to ask for to run for 1 yard to get a first down to keep drives alive?

Is it too much to ask to throw the ball away or go down on occasion to live for another day?

Ben has all the talent and tools to be a sound and efficient QB. He should not be pressing at this stage in his career. He should not be throwing game-killing INTs in games. You would think his head would be in the game and that he would be able to judge situations better. But he hasn't done that of late.

The core element to the position is decision making. And I expect a QB of his experience to be making good ones.

None of what you said is too much to ask, but in order for Ben to do most if not all that you want he has to have team mates and coaches that do their job too. Sadly when Ben has done his job others fail him, yet when he fails all anybody sees is just that as his failure. BTW all the situations he is in are not his doing,(some but not all) Haley did him no favors, the lack of a running game did not help either. I expect Haley and Ben to take this year and hopefully put it to better use next season.

PhantomJB93
12-29-2012, 06:50 PM
It's the same thing with Tomlin, I think people really forget that half this league fires their coaches routinely looking for somebody half as good as Tomlin. There's not some magical better option out there to replace Tomlin, just as there's not an instant replacement for Ben.

WVABE
12-29-2012, 07:10 PM
Charlie has another year left in him.

I like Charlie so don't argue with me.

ZoneBlitzer
12-29-2012, 07:36 PM
None of what you said is too much to ask, but in order for Ben to do most if not all that you want he has to have team mates and coaches that do their job too. Sadly when Ben has done his job others fail him

Yes, this is true to an extent. If there is one thing to be said about the season it is that the team was COMPLETELY out of sync. Eg. Ben makes good throw, player catches then fumble. Defense gets a good stop, offense goes 3 and out (WR drops ball etc.) ST gets a good return, offense goes 3 and out.

None of their play in all phases of the game was complimentary throughout the entire season.

Coaches and players need to really focus on situational football for next season.

Hawaii 5-0
12-29-2012, 07:44 PM
nobody.

that's exactly what I was going to post if no one else had said it...nobody.

Ben is our QB, I'm willing to sink or swim and live or die with him.

VictoryFormation
12-29-2012, 08:15 PM
Dan Marino, after he discovers the fountain of youth... which might not happen.

lardlad
12-29-2012, 08:19 PM
If you can find one better than Ben, sign him up. But you aren't going to.

He is taking a beating here lately, some deserved but be realistic, there are only a few in the league better. I think he needs to see the field better, I always felt that way about him. People make a big deal out of what he can do when the plays breakdown. Many times it is of his own making. I hate to think its the only way he knows how to play, sometimes I wonder.

Take the good with the bad, for the most part it's really good. But to answer the question, I don't think there is a replacement for Ben. Honestly he is the least of our worries.

Again if we re not -14 in turnovers we are in the playoffs. Most of that is not Bens fault.

GoFor7
12-29-2012, 11:51 PM
Dan Marino, after he discovers the fountain of youth... which might not happen.

Had the Steelers not passed him up in the draft, the 80's could have been totally different for them...

lloydwoodson
12-30-2012, 12:52 AM
Alex Smith.

Hawaii 5-0
12-30-2012, 01:06 AM
Alex Smith.

please don't tell me that you think Alex Smith is anywhere near as good as Ben, because he isn't...

Bayz101
12-30-2012, 02:38 AM
Alex Smith.

:doh:

Steeldude
12-30-2012, 03:16 AM
If I was going to trade BR it wouldn't be for Griffin. If Peyton Manning was younger I would do that trade. I would trade him for Aaron Rodgers.

Retired QBs(1980's and on)l would trade for are as follows...

Marino

Elway

Aikman

Favre

therocksteeler
12-30-2012, 03:18 AM
that's exactly what I was going to post if no one else had said it...nobody.

Ben is our QB, I'm willing to sink or swim and live or die with him.

:iagree::iagree:

Perfect!

lloydwoodson
12-30-2012, 04:13 AM
please don't tell me that you think Alex Smith is anywhere near as good as Ben, because he isn't...

Roethlisberger is the most overrated player in the NFL after Terrell Suggs.

He is replaceable don't kid yourselves.

Alex Smith won't win games by himself (although he was awesome last year in the playoffs) but he won't lose games by himself either.

I would rather have an effective passer than a poor man's Brett Favre who shits on his coaches to the media.

pete74
12-30-2012, 04:53 AM
Roethlisberger is the most overrated player in the NFL after Terrell Suggs.

He is replaceable don't kid yourselves.

Alex Smith won't win games by himself (although he was awesome last year in the playoffs) but he won't lose games by himself either.

I would rather have an effective passer than a poor man's Brett Favre who shits on his coaches to the media.

Your out of your mind. I you would trade Ben for Alex Smith? That's just insane to me and I gurentee you would be the first person calling for Smiths head after his first year as a Steeler

GoFor7
12-30-2012, 08:57 AM
Roethlisberger is the most overrated player in the NFL after Terrell Suggs.

He is replaceable don't kid yourselves.

Alex Smith won't win games by himself (although he was awesome last year in the playoffs) but he won't lose games by himself either.

I would rather have an effective passer than a poor man's Brett Favre who shits on his coaches to the media.

^He's basically saying he wants 90's football

Eztarget
12-30-2012, 10:19 AM
Ben has won here ... so replacing him would be stupid. Now replacing his coaches (including Tomlin) now that would make sense.

A lot of people don't realize that Ben DETACHED a rip from the bone. I want people here to tear a rip and try to throw anything let alone a football at the NFL level.

Yes he made some bad throws but I'm not throwing him under the bus yet. He clearly needs better coaching and a legit running game. Our RB's sucked this year.

lloydwoodson
12-30-2012, 03:12 PM
Thank God we won today. I was worried and it was close.

17-10 in the 4th with the Browns threatening to score.

But then I knew it would be close as soon as I saw it was Ben vs a 3rd string rookie qb who was starting his first game.

Steelers MVP was the Browns rookie who fumbled after making a first down catch.

Because Ben threw 3 tds and 0 ints I now admit he is the best qb of all time and that no NFL starter on any other team could lead the Steelers offense any better than he could. Amazing 120 yard performance.

LayingTheWoodley56
12-30-2012, 03:23 PM
This thread should not exist, nor should any calling Ben's role as our starting quarterback into question. The guy is fabulous, plain and simple, and he has his missteps like all other quarterbacks. The influence of the position is such that a big mistake at the end of the game is usually the quarterback's to make, and thus he is blamed for it.

Ben is an upper echelon quarterback, and just about every team in the league would gladly take him off our hands if idiots are clamoring to get rid of him. Take your mindlessness elsewhere.

Kanata-Steeler
12-30-2012, 03:28 PM
It's NOT about "If not Ben, then who?", it's about "when NOT Ben, then who?"
Time will tell, sooner than we may think.

lloydwoodson
12-30-2012, 05:02 PM
This thread should not exist, nor should any calling Ben's role as our starting quarterback into question. The guy is fabulous, plain and simple, and he has his missteps like all other quarterbacks. The influence of the position is such that a big mistake at the end of the game is usually the quarterback's to make, and thus he is blamed for it.

Ben is an upper echelon quarterback, and just about every team in the league would gladly take him off our hands if idiots are clamoring to get rid of him. Take your mindlessness elsewhere.

THREE rookie quarterbacks are taking their teams to the playoffs if RGIII pulls out a win today.

Ben isn't as hard to replace as you'd all like to pretend.

Ben's offense put up 23 ppg or less in all but one season in his career.

It doesn't matter who the coaches are. Ben is Ben.

GoFor7
12-30-2012, 05:06 PM
THREE rookie quarterbacks are taking their teams to the playoffs if RGIII pulls out a win today.

Ben isn't as hard to replace as you'd all like to pretend.

Ben's offense put up 23 ppg or less in all but one season in his career.

It doesn't matter who the coaches are. Ben is Ben.

That's what happens when management wants to play an outdated style of football...

lloydwoodson
12-30-2012, 05:14 PM
That's what happens when management wants to play an outdated style of football...

Please be more specific. I don't want you to make loose accusations of outdated philosophy.

Please come right out and say that over the last several years Bruce Arians offense played a conservative run-based offense reminiscent of Cowher ball. Arians never gave Ben the opportunity to succeed in a down-the-field passing attack instead choosing an offense based on short yardage running and passing plays.

That way I can laugh in your face.

The world according to Arians was that Ben was an elite qb and the receiving corps was the best in the NFL. I guess you bought into that bs all the way huh?

Ricco Suavez
12-30-2012, 06:25 PM
Cleveland Rookie looked pretty good against our vaulted defense. Moved the ball well all day, too bad Ben fell asleep on that fake punt. Wished Ben could of run the ball better on those 2nd and 3rd and 2-3 yard plays today. Hey maybe if Ben had punted better instead of some of those shanks. Wished B en had thrown that ball off his back shoulder instead of Plax maybe he would of made an effort to catch it. Hey you guys are on to something this is fun to pretend.

Ricco Suavez
12-30-2012, 06:30 PM
I can tell you for a fact this. If we were to replace Ben today with say an Alex Smith, three fan groups including players, coaches of the North division would rejoice. Furthermore the team that signed Ben would be an automatic threat to win their division. All these rookies having great years remind me of Vick, Cam, Vince Young. all had pretty good starts and now only Cam really has a chance to turn this past season around. I think Luck is the real deal, I was for the Steelers drafting Wilson (short size and all) but it still remains to be seen what they do in the near future.

lloydwoodson
12-30-2012, 07:22 PM
Cleveland Rookie looked pretty good against our vaulted defense. Moved the ball well all day, too bad Ben fell asleep on that fake punt. Wished Ben could of run the ball better on those 2nd and 3rd and 2-3 yard plays today. Hey maybe if Ben had punted better instead of some of those shanks. Wished B en had thrown that ball off his back shoulder instead of Plax maybe he would of made an effort to catch it. Hey you guys are on to something this is fun to pretend.

*Scratches head* I thought our D only allowed 10 points?

Could have been a tie game there in the 4th as I mentioned.

Thankfully we won this squeaker at home against the Cleveland Browns and their 3rd string rookie qb.

Couldn't have won without Ben! M-V-P! M-V-P!

What was our record when Ben was out for 4 games a couple seasons back? I forget. Oh wait... 3-1.

Steelers are nothing without Ben!!!!! Oh wait... 6-7 lifetime without Ben.

The Steelers are a .500 team without Ben!!!!

Hmm they were a .500 team this year too.

The Steelers are a .500 team with Ben!!!!!

M-V-P! M-V-P! M-V-P!

austinfrench76
12-30-2012, 07:26 PM
The answer IS Ben but he does need to refind his clutch game as someone pointed out the other day. He has been bad in the clutch lately and that kills us!!!!!!

casteeler
12-30-2012, 07:28 PM
THREE rookie quarterbacks are taking their teams to the playoffs if RGIII pulls out a win today.

Ben isn't as hard to replace as you'd all like to pretend.

Ben's offense put up 23 ppg or less in all but one season in his career.

It doesn't matter who the coaches are. Ben is Ben.

Ben is great and our franchise QB. He has made some of the greatest throws/plays in Steeler history but I agree 100% with comment that Ben wouldn't be as hard to replace as everyone believes. The Steelers problems start with poor coaching and end with bad execution and Ben deserves less blame for this worse than our record indicated season than some think. A running game would have helped a ton and I hate to piss in everyone's Cheerios but the Offensive line still sucks

lloydwoodson
12-30-2012, 07:28 PM
The answer IS Ben but he does need to refind his clutch game as someone pointed out the other day. He has been bad in the clutch lately and that kills us!!!!!!

Maybe all he needs to do is buy into the system Haley has provided, realise he will never be Peyton Manning, stop being an attention-***** primadonna and play football.

Ricco Suavez
12-30-2012, 07:39 PM
*Scratches head* I thought our D only allowed 10 points?

Could have been a tie game there in the 4th as I mentioned.

Thankfully we won this squeaker at home against the Cleveland Browns and their 3rd string rookie qb.

Couldn't have won without Ben! M-V-P! M-V-P!

What was our record when Ben was out for 4 games a couple seasons back? I forget. Oh wait... 3-1.

Steelers are nothing without Ben!!!!! Oh wait... 6-7 lifetime without Ben.

The Steelers are a .500 team without Ben!!!!

Hmm they were a .500 team this year too.

The Steelers are a .500 team with Ben!!!!!

M-V-P! M-V-P! M-V-P!

I for one am not touting Ben as the be all and end all of the Steelers, but I do know he is far from being the be all and end all of this current teams issues. You say Ben should buy into Haleys system , well he just did for 13 games and the results are in. Maybe its time for Haley to quit being muleheaded and try something else. I admit after 9 games it appeared to be working and you can look back at my posts and I even said so. I also said that I thought Haley was too conservative and had forgotten the long ball. Defenses tightened the coverage off the line on our small receivers and they had difficulty getting open. Heath was the only receiver that consistently got open off the line. Ben is NOT Peyton, neither is anyone else, so sorry we did not sign him this off season for your personal gratification. As far as the defense they have played well nearly all year other than the first 4-5 games, even better than I anticipated (once again you can look at former posts and I have said so numerous times) but YOU are the one who made the comment how good the Rookie looked and I will have to say he looked good against our defense today, now was it our #1 defense or was he really that good, you tell me?

Ricco Suavez
12-30-2012, 07:43 PM
6-7 without 86-39 with 3 SBs 2 Lombardis. 25 years between SB wins. Hopefully not another 25 years til next but with some great thinking around here I could see it.

GoFor7
12-30-2012, 07:55 PM
Ben is NOT Peyton, neither is anyone else, so sorry we did not sign him this off season for your personal gratification.

If Peyton Manning was the QB of the Steelers, yinzer nation would still find excuses to run him out of town.

Not sure I'd want him anyways. Getting old and has a bad record in the playoffs. Given how much awe there is over him in the media, I think it's rather damning he's only won 1 super bowl.

Besides, he threw a pick six in a super bowl. So he must be a bum deep down.

AndyWitmyer
12-30-2012, 08:00 PM
If not Ben? A 4-12 record

The_Joker
12-30-2012, 08:41 PM
I'll wait.

Throw Tomlin in there to.

:coffee:

lipps83
12-30-2012, 08:42 PM
I'll wait.

Throw Tomlin in there to.

:coffee:

I know, I know!

Tom Brady can replace Ben.

Belicheck can replace Tomlin.

DONE.

lloydwoodson
12-30-2012, 08:43 PM
6-7 without 86-39 with 3 SBs 2 Lombardis. 25 years between SB wins. Hopefully not another 25 years til next but with some great thinking around here I could see it.

Yeah, the Steelers could never have won anything without Ben's 20th ranked scoring offenses.

Steelers were 39-22 with Neil O'Donnell.

46-29 with Kordell Stewart.

The Steelers have shown an ability to win with any qb not named Tommy Maddox.

How much credit do the qbs deserve? How much credit does the team deserve?

Why don't you hop off Ben's jock for a minute- the man needs some air.

The_Joker
12-30-2012, 08:44 PM
I know, I know!

Tom Brady can replace Ben.

Belicheck can replace Tomlin.

DONE.

Warm the stake boys!

lipps83
12-30-2012, 08:56 PM
6-7 without 86-39 with 3 SBs 2 Lombardis. 25 years between SB wins. Hopefully not another 25 years til next but with some great thinking around here I could see it.

Didn't you read? Replacing elite QB's is easy at the NFL level. They are all over the place and readily available. There are literally dozens upon dozens that are not already locked into deals with other teams or at the college level (elite QB's are available every single draft, silly, you just have to pick the right one).

I just finished packing my bags and am heading to Iowa. I am sure someone there can throw a tight spiral that nobody has discovered yet.

The_Joker
12-30-2012, 09:04 PM
If not Ben? A 4-12 record

:rofl:

We get rid of Ben we betray all we stand for.

GoFor7
12-30-2012, 09:05 PM
Yeah, the Steelers could never have won anything without Ben's 20th ranked scoring offenses.

Steelers were 39-22 with Neil O'Donnell.

46-29 with Kordell Stewart.

The Steelers have shown an ability to win with any qb not named Tommy Maddox.

How much credit do the qbs deserve? How much credit does the team deserve?

Why don't you hop off Ben's jock for a minute- the man needs some air.

I noticed you didn't post the playoff achievements of O'Donnell and Stewart. I don't know why you would leave those out.... :coffee:

Were you in the group that wanted Bradshaw out of town back in the early 80's? Bet you were really happy when you got your wish.

Really? The Steelers have won with any QB not named Tommy Maddox? It must be really hard for you to count to zero. You sound angry that the team from the 90's didn't win anything, and then came along Ben and the Steelers won #5 in his second year.

Ben may not have been the sole reason the Steelers finally ended their super bowl drought, but he sure as well was the piece that finally got them over the hump. Brady didn't exactly light it up in all of his super bowls, and Eli Manning got MVP because he's a New York QB. Now you can choose to be butthurt about the team in the 90's not winning anything without a star QB, or you can be happy the Steelers aren't one of the teams starting journeyman QBs anymore.

casteeler
12-30-2012, 09:09 PM
Where is the Mod to merge this thread with the others

SteelersCanada
12-30-2012, 09:12 PM
With one of the many, many other franchise quarterbacks just waiting for work. There's so many of them just sitting around waiting for work and we have this arrogant, egotistical prick named Ben Roethlisberger who can't even throw for 300+ yards and 3 TDs every game! He's useless! We should go ahead and trade all of our picks away and draft Geno Smith or take Matt Barkley in the first round this year. They'll come in and put up Brady numbers!

While exaggerated, this isn't ridiculously far off the mark from what I've seen guys post on here. We truly don't know how good we have it with Ben.

Darkstorm05
12-30-2012, 09:12 PM
I'll wait.

Throw Tomlin in there to.

:coffee:

Paul Crewe? :thumbsup:

GoFor7
12-30-2012, 09:12 PM
I'll wait.

Throw Tomlin in there to.

:coffee:

Well if this follows the other thread, they'll continue to bash Ben but they won't actually answer the question.

lloydwoodson
12-30-2012, 11:00 PM
If Matt Barkley is there at 17 I say take him.

Need to get rid of Roethlisberger he is a locker room cancer.

Haley will keep him level-headed not encourage his egomania like Arians did Roethlisberger.

Barkley will turn out to be the best Steelers QB of all time.

His Jr season was awesome.

lloydwoodson
12-30-2012, 11:18 PM
I noticed you didn't post the playoff achievements of O'Donnell and Stewart. I don't know why you would leave those out.... :coffee:

Were you in the group that wanted Bradshaw out of town back in the early 80's? Bet you were really happy when you got your wish.

Really? The Steelers have won with any QB not named Tommy Maddox? It must be really hard for you to count to zero. You sound angry that the team from the 90's didn't win anything, and then came along Ben and the Steelers won #5 in his second year.

Ben may not have been the sole reason the Steelers finally ended their super bowl drought, but he sure as well was the piece that finally got them over the hump. Brady didn't exactly light it up in all of his super bowls, and Eli Manning got MVP because he's a New York QB. Now you can choose to be butthurt about the team in the 90's not winning anything without a star QB, or you can be happy the Steelers aren't one of the teams starting journeyman QBs anymore.

I wasn't born when Bradshaw was "kicked out" of Pittsburgh, Grandpa.

I became a fan in '94. I didn't need the Steelers to win a superbowl to be a fan and I remained a fan for the 11 years they went without.

I watch the Steelers for what I perceived to be their blue-collar approach to football under Cowher. A huge part of being blue collar is not whining. Roethlisberger whines incessantly- I can't stand it. STFU and do your job. The rest of us would be fired in a heartbeat for criticising the boss let alone criticising the boss's company to the media.

You will never hear Ford's CFO telling media that the CEO is running the company into the ground. Ben gets paid like a CFO/CEO and I would like to see him act professionally.

All of the rookie quarterbacks drafted, starting and leading their teams to the playoffs this year are more mature than Ben. The Steelers could draft a high school phenom who skips college and plays Super Mario all day in tiger pyjamas and he would be more mature than Ben.

Ricco Suavez
12-30-2012, 11:39 PM
I wasn't born when Bradshaw was "kicked out" of Pittsburgh, Grandpa.

I became a fan in '94. I didn't need the Steelers to win a superbowl to be a fan and I remained a fan for the 11 years they went without.

I watch the Steelers for what I perceived to be their blue-collar approach to football under Cowher. A huge part of being blue collar is not whining. Roethlisberger whines incessantly- I can't stand it. STFU and do your job. The rest of us would be fired in a heartbeat for criticising the boss let alone criticising the boss's company to the media.

You will never hear Ford's CFO telling media that the CEO is running the company into the ground. Ben gets paid like a CFO/CEO and I would like to see him act professionally.

All of the rookie quarterbacks drafted, starting and leading their teams to the playoffs this year are more mature than Ben. The Steelers could draft a high school phenom who skips college and plays Super Mario all day in tiger pyjamas and he would be more mature than Ben.

From your posts, I can tell there is no convincing you of Ben's merit to this organization, (I already knew that from previous posts) but all I can say if Bens career up to now has been stellar to say the least and his stats compare pretty much to any so-called great QB of the last 20 years,( I have already compared his to Elway) I have said I do not believe Ben to be a Peyton or a Brady, I do believe he has been just as instrumental in the success of the Steelers as either of those two have done for their respective teams. Video games, fantasy leagues, have ruined many fans who just do not appreciate the real NFL, it is not as easy as it appears some times. I believe that some of the hate comes from selective memory , like in your case of the Cowher years. I have been a fan since 1972, and I remember Cowhers teams having some not so good years and I remember some pretty poor QB play and Cowher did a great job of balancing defense, and a very good run game. Times have changed, the NFL has changed, Defense alone like the Ravens and TB squad had with no QB to speak of will not win SBs. Teams need good QB play, and while Ben struggled 3 of his last four, his numbers reflect that he had a great year after 9 games. He has had a great career so far. I suspect that your hate and the hate of others stem from more than just his play on the field and more on his off field exploits or his personality, and if that is the case than no one can change your mind.

fansince'76
12-31-2012, 12:05 AM
I wasn't born when Bradshaw was "kicked out" of Pittsburgh, Grandpa.

I became a fan in '94.

This actually explains a lot.

lloydwoodson
12-31-2012, 12:27 AM
From your posts, I can tell there is no convincing you of Ben's merit to this organization, (I already knew that from previous posts) but all I can say if Bens career up to now has been stellar to say the least and his stats compare pretty much to any so-called great QB of the last 20 years,( I have already compared his to Elway) I have said I do not believe Ben to be a Peyton or a Brady, I do believe he has been just as instrumental in the success of the Steelers as either of those two have done for their respective teams. Video games, fantasy leagues, have ruined many fans who just do not appreciate the real NFL, it is not as easy as it appears some times. I believe that some of the hate comes from selective memory , like in your case of the Cowher years. I have been a fan since 1972, and I remember Cowhers teams having some not so good years and I remember some pretty poor QB play and Cowher did a great job of balancing defense, and a very good run game. Times have changed, the NFL has changed, Defense alone like the Ravens and TB squad had with no QB to speak of will not win SBs. Teams need good QB play, and while Ben struggled 3 of his last four, his numbers reflect that he had a great year after 9 games. He has had a great career so far. I suspect that your hate and the hate of others stem from more than just his play on the field and more on his off field exploits or his personality, and if that is the case than no one can change your mind.

Not going to respond to straw men arguments about what I probably believe.

I don't play football video games and I hate fantasy football.

And Elway sucked- blew more big games badly than any qb in NFL history. Elway admits that he would not have rings without Terrell Davis.

lloydwoodson
12-31-2012, 12:40 AM
This actually explains a lot.

It sure does. I respect the no-bull attitude the Steelers have taken over the years. The Steelers are a great team year in and year out because of their preparation and attention to detail. There is very little flash on the Steelers.

I watch the Steelers win or lose and appreciate that they always give an enormous effort. And since I started watching the Steelers 15 years after they won a superbowl and remained a fan for 10 years until the won the next one- I have more appreciation for how the game is played rather than focusing strictly on wins and losses.

On the other hand, you became a fan in 1976- immediately following a Steelers superbowl victory.

I am not the ultimate Steelers fan, far from it (the REAL Steelers fans are masturbating themselves to sleep while staring at the Ben Roethlisberger life-size cardboard cutout in the corner of their rooms) but I cheer for the team not individual players.

I can't stop people on this board from scapegoating the entire team to save face for Roethlisberger- but I can put everybody on the defensive and have them so wrapped up on Ben that they forget to demand Haley and Wallace and Tomlin be fired.

Neil-Still-Rules-14
12-31-2012, 01:58 AM
If Matt Barkley is there at 17 I say take him.

Need to get rid of Roethlisberger he is a locker room cancer.

Haley will keep him level-headed not encourage his egomania like Arians did Roethlisberger.

Barkley will turn out to be the best Steelers QB of all time.

His Jr season was awesome.

:sofunny:

Rick5895
12-31-2012, 03:58 AM
This is far to reminiscent of other posts. Get rid of Ben, fire Tomlin. etc. I don't care who would've been our QB, our OL was devastated by injuries, Ben was lost for 3 games and TBH I don't think he was truly healthy when he came back. This season was one of those seasons where we struggled in all phases, it happens.
I have said this before, Ben is the right QB for us right now. I can remember the Steelers drafting a "stud" college QB in the first round in the early 80's .... His name was ......Mark Malone. How did that work out?
Yes, SteelersCanada, we won lots of games with O'Donnel, Stewart at QB, how many titles.....0! Ben didn't play well in the 05 SuperBowl but if it wasn't for him in the 3 games prior we wouldn't have been there, in 08 he won that game and should've been MVP.
Thge franchise QB will always get hate, That is the nature of the job,
Lot's of over reaction because we didn't win the Super Bowl! threads like this are getting too predictable and I wish the mods would quiet these down.
Also, far to many insults being thrown at each other because people disagree with each other. People need to relax,

Lady Steel
12-31-2012, 11:24 AM
This thread gives me a headache.

GoFor7
12-31-2012, 11:59 AM
It sure does. I respect the no-bull attitude the Steelers have taken over the years. The Steelers are a great team year in and year out because of their preparation and attention to detail. There is very little flash on the Steelers.

I watch the Steelers win or lose and appreciate that they always give an enormous effort. And since I started watching the Steelers 15 years after they won a superbowl and remained a fan for 10 years until the won the next one- I have more appreciation for how the game is played rather than focusing strictly on wins and losses.

On the other hand, you became a fan in 1976- immediately following a Steelers superbowl victory.

I am not the ultimate Steelers fan, far from it (the REAL Steelers fans are masturbating themselves to sleep while staring at the Ben Roethlisberger life-size cardboard cutout in the corner of their rooms) but I cheer for the team not individual players.

I can't stop people on this board from scapegoating the entire team to save face for Roethlisberger- but I can put everybody on the defensive and have them so wrapped up on Ben that they forget to demand Haley and Wallace and Tomlin be fired.

And if you've been a fan for that long, then you should also be aware that sometimes the Steelers get so caught up in trying to be right that it has prevented them from winning more.

Take most of the pre-2011 games against the Patriots for example. How many times did the Steelers try the same Marty ball crap? Run, run, pass, punt. How many times did they fall flat on their faces? It wasn't until they actually remembered Ben was their QB that they beat them. Now why would a team continue to employ the same failure of a strategy over and over again?

fansince'76
12-31-2012, 12:15 PM
I watch the Steelers win or lose and appreciate that they always give an enormous effort. And since I started watching the Steelers 15 years after they won a superbowl and remained a fan for 10 years until the won the next one- I have more appreciation for how the game is played rather than focusing strictly on wins and losses.

On the other hand, you became a fan in 1976- immediately following a Steelers superbowl victory.

Is this some allusion to me being a "bandwagon" fan? Even though I stuck with the team through the suckfest known as the 1980s? Trust me, if you started following this team in 1994, you haven't really seen a truly "bad" Steelers team yet. I'm talking Mark Malone at QB, Walter Abercrombie at RB and Weegie Thompson and Calvin Sweeney at wideout bad. In other words, time-to-burn-the-whole-thing-down-to-the-ground-and-start-over-from-scratch bad. This team hasn't been in those kinds of straits since well before 1994, believe me.

Ricco Suavez
12-31-2012, 12:21 PM
Well said Fan76. Some just do not know of those lean years, what we have had is a down year, it remains to be seen if its a trend or an anomaly. Makes you wonder if any "real old-timers" still around that remember the dark ages before the 70's.

lloydwoodson
12-31-2012, 05:25 PM
Is this some allusion to me being a "bandwagon" fan? Even though I stuck with the team through the suckfest known as the 1980s? Trust me, if you started following this team in 1994, you haven't really seen a truly "bad" Steelers team yet. I'm talking Mark Malone at QB, Walter Abercrombie at RB and Weegie Thompson and Calvin Sweeney at wideout bad. In other words, time-to-burn-the-whole-thing-down-to-the-ground-and-start-over-from-scratch bad. This team hasn't been in those kinds of straits since well before 1994, believe me.

You are a true hero, sir! You made it through the 80s with only the memories of 4 superbowl trophies! For this we all bow down in awe of your magnificent loyalty!

lloydwoodson
12-31-2012, 05:26 PM
Sorry guys - it is the same underachieving offense year after year. The offensive coordinators are variables - the quarterback is the constant.

Top quarterbacks with new coordinators last year and the ppg their offenses produced:

Roethlisberger 2011 20 ppg 2012 21 ppg

Tom Brady 2011 32 ppg 2012 35 ppg

Matt Ryan 2011 25 ppg 2012 26 ppg

Cutler 2011 22 ppg 2012 23 ppg

P Manning 2010 27 ppg 2012 30 ppg

Rivers 2011 25 ppg 2012 22 ppg

Flacco 2011 24 ppg 2012 25 ppg

Romo 2011 23 ppg 2012 23 ppg

Rodgers 2011 35 ppg 2012 27 ppg

Conclusion: Seeing that only Rodgers offensive production changed significantly, if a team wants to score more points they are better off with a new quarterback than a new coordinator.

GoFor7
12-31-2012, 05:30 PM
Sorry guys - it is the same underachieving offense year after year. The offensive coordinators are variables - the quarterback is the constant.

Top quarterbacks with new coordinators last year and the ppg their offenses produced:

Roethlisberger 2011 20 ppg 2012 21 ppg

Tom Brady 2011 32 ppg 2012 35 ppg

Matt Ryan 2011 25 ppg 2012 26 ppg

Cutler 2011 22 ppg 2012 23 ppg

P Manning 2010 27 ppg 2012 30 ppg

Rivers 2011 25 ppg 2012 22 ppg

Flacco 2011 24 ppg 2012 25 ppg

Romo 2011 23 ppg 2012 23 ppg

Rodgers 2011 35 ppg 2012 27 ppg

Conclusion: Seeing that only Rodgers offensive production changed significantly, if a team wants to score more points they are better off with a new quarterback than a new coordinator.

All those teams you mentioned aren't obsessed with ball control offenses - they actually try to score. I keep telling you that, but you seem incapable of understanding.

This is yinzer nation in the offseason:

"Ben don't gotta throw da ball more den 20 times! Gotta run da ball! Gotta rest da defense! Da stillerz dun't need ta score more points cuz da stiller defense will be well-rested!"

This is yinzer nation after a close loss:

"BEN WHY DIDN'T YINZ DO MORE! YINZ STINK! YINZ GOTTA SCORE MORE POINTS! BOOOOOOOOO!"

Don't demand the offense play ball-control and then go on demanding more points. Want more points? Gotta make some quick strikes and not worry about protecting the defense all the time.

Ricco Suavez
12-31-2012, 06:12 PM
You are a true hero, sir! You made it through the 80s with only the memories of 4 superbowl trophies! For this we all bow down in awe of your magnificent loyalty!

Once again you fail to see anything other than your agenda, Fan76 and others like myself have been through not only the 80's, but the 90's as well and even through the first half of the 2000"s. We have been through more QBs than you have had the privilege of seeing, we saw them actually play, not just a highlight real. We saw the Malones, Bristers, Stoudt, Bono, and Blackledge. We saw QB that if playing today would not compare to Cassell. You have no idea of what a bad QB is, even Kordell was good compared to what we saw in the 80's. You want to down Ben every chance you get by comparing him to 2 of the greatest QBs ever, not just today but forever, and while Ben is not either of those two he is better than anyone else we have, or likely to have any time soon. Get over it. Your not critiquing, your not offering real solutions, you are just on a witch hunt.

lloydwoodson
12-31-2012, 08:41 PM
Once again you fail to see anything other than your agenda, Fan76 and others like myself have been through not only the 80's, but the 90's as well and even through the first half of the 2000"s. We have been through more QBs than you have had the privilege of seeing, we saw them actually play, not just a highlight real. We saw the Malones, Bristers, Stoudt, Bono, and Blackledge. We saw QB that if playing today would not compare to Cassell. You have no idea of what a bad QB is, even Kordell was good compared to what we saw in the 80's. You want to down Ben every chance you get by comparing him to 2 of the greatest QBs ever, not just today but forever, and while Ben is not either of those two he is better than anyone else we have, or likely to have any time soon. Get over it. Your not critiquing, your not offering real solutions, you are just on a witch hunt.

The Steelers had six winning seasons, one 500 season and three losing seasons from 1980-89. Their record was 77-75.

BOO HOO HOO! WAHHHHHH!

And only the memories of the greatest dynasty in NFL history to cling to.

BOO HOO HOO! WAHHHHHH!

The Steelers in the 80s were an above .500 team.

BOO HOO HOO! WAHHHHHH! POOR ME!!!!

Ricco Suavez
12-31-2012, 10:23 PM
The Steelers had six winning seasons, one 500 season and three losing seasons from 1980-89. Their record was 77-75.

BOO HOO HOO! WAHHHHHH!

And only the memories of the greatest dynasty in NFL history to cling to.

BOO HOO HOO! WAHHHHHH!

The Steelers in the 80s were an above .500 team.

BOO HOO HOO! WAHHHHHH! POOR ME!!!!

And you can write the stuff you do about a 8-8 season this year. And want to bash our QB after 9 years of winning football and his worst season has been 8-8, and Tomlin too. Just what would please you,oh spoiled one?

lloydwoodson
01-01-2013, 01:50 AM
And you can write the stuff you do about a 8-8 season this year. And want to bash our QB after 9 years of winning football and his worst season has been 8-8, and Tomlin too. Just what would please you,oh spoiled one?

I don't care about an 8-8 season. I know the effort was there from most of the team.

I am not whining about a losing season.

I am holding Ben accountable in the court of public opinion for failure to deliver his team into the playoffs.

Did Peyton blame his OC the last time he didn't make the playoffs? I don't know. Probably not but I would have to go look at articles from 2001 to check.

Peyton won a superbowl with a 26th rated defense. Roethlisberger has missed 3 playoffs with a top 5 defense.

I am not ragging on Ben for being who he is. I am ragging on Ben because he pretends to be something he is not.

The best qbs of all time have been game managers. I do not want a superstar qb. I want an efficient and organized offensed. The Steelers drafted Roethlisberger to be Troy Aikman not Drew Brees.