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Terminator
01-03-2013, 10:20 AM
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/286864533102931968

Please God, let this happen.

BIGNASTY91
01-03-2013, 10:21 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000121535/article/arizona-cardinals-request-todd-haley-interview

If he gets this job the front office needs to be on the phone with Norv Turner fast. He may not have been the best head coach, but i think he is a very good O-coordinator??? Whats your thoughts??

TRH
01-03-2013, 10:35 AM
For starters, I hope Haley stays. I think its a good long-term fit for him here - and would hate to see him take a job like that somewhere else, only to be fired after 2 years - when he knows he has a great position here. The grass isn't always greener.
I thought Reid would get that job, but today its looking like he's very close to a deal with KC.

As for Turner, no. Our FO won't even talk to him. We would likely, almost surely, promote Kirby Wilson.

TRH
01-03-2013, 10:36 AM
and another thing...

Can Arizona and Indy just stay the F away from our teams? We're not their "farm systems". The league should institute a limit on how many players/coaches you can scarf from one team.

GoFor7
01-03-2013, 10:38 AM
I wouldn't mind Norv Turner, so long as he wouldn't be handcuffed by management's philosophies. Word is the Jets want Turner. My bet is he'd rather have Ben as a QB than Sanchez, McElroy, or some other worthless QB the Jets would start.

Most likely the Steelers will just promote from within. It was rumored Wilson would have gotten the job if it wasn't for those burns.

Oh wait. Ben thinks highly of Kirby Wilson, so it'll never work. :coffee:

Steelers>NFL
01-03-2013, 10:43 AM
Noooo.. Stay Haley!!!

Steelers>NFL
01-03-2013, 10:48 AM
I wouldn't mind Norv Turner, so long as he wouldn't be handcuffed by management's philosophies. Word is the Jets want Turner. My bet is he'd rather have Ben as a QB than Sanchez, McElroy, or some other worthless QB the Jets would start.

Most likely the Steelers will just promote from within. It was rumored Wilson would have gotten the job if it wasn't for those burns.

Oh wait. Ben thinks highly of Kirby Wilson, so it'll never work. :coffee:

Kirby is a RB coach. So he may just run, run, run the ball. Ben will not like that..:sofunny:

fer522
01-03-2013, 10:48 AM
He needs to stay I don't want another 8-8 season next year with a new OC

SteelersCanada
01-03-2013, 10:54 AM
Let me ask you guys something, who do we replace him with? Obviously the dream is Norv Turner, but what if we don't get him? The next guy up would be Kirby Wilson and unless we get another RB, I'm not sure I want him running this offense. Handing it off to Dwyer and Redman didn't work and I have a feeling that his offensive ideology would be a run-first based offense which would be a mistake.

Before we start wishing him away, let's find a legitimate replacement. Ya?

GoFor7
01-03-2013, 10:58 AM
Let me ask you guys something, who do we replace him with? Obviously the dream is Norv Turner, but what if we don't get him? The next guy up would be Kirby Wilson and unless we get another RB, I'm not sure I want him running this offense. Handing it off to Dwyer and Redman didn't work and I have a feeling that his offensive ideology would be a run-first based offense which would be a mistake.

That'll be the case anyways if Artie keeps meddling in football operations. The one positive thing about Wilson is that Ben seems to think very highly of him.

stb_steeler
01-03-2013, 10:59 AM
Next thing they'll be sayin Whiz back to Pitt.
Whats next :noidea:

Fire Arians
01-03-2013, 10:59 AM
this sucks, i thought the offense was on the right track until ben got hurt, i felt that another offseason working with the same system would have gotten the O to click. goddamn cardinals

madtowndrunkard
01-03-2013, 11:06 AM
I want Haley to stay.... I've seen Haley run offenses... he did it for a very untalented KC team and out coached a vastly more talented Mike Tomlin led steeler team. Even this season when our offense was healthy we looked pretty good. It wasnt' until the injuries and turnovers started that we could no longer score points. Facts are facts...when Ben returned from injury our offense imploded. We looked significantly better with Batch at QB...then with Ben the last few weeks.

I also think the plan going into the season was for us to run the ball. That was Mike Tomlin's plan as much as it was Haley's plan. When the running game failed...the offense struggled...then ultimately imploded when Ben imploded. The fumbling didn't help matters. So it would be really premature to say Haley isn't a capable coach.

Hopefully next season Ben gets behind Haley's system and our O-line stays healthy..... If those two things happen I see no reason why we don't go deep in the playoffs. If we can run the ball... those deep passing plays that Ben so badly wants to run will open up. It takes time to build the efficient style offense that Haley wants to bring. Ben fought it from the start... maybe this off season he'll see the light?

Steeler7BR
01-03-2013, 11:15 AM
How could it be worse what Haley had done. Half of the passing game were screens last year. Are you kidding me. We don't need Wallace for that piece of ****. Not vertical at all no streaks and long routes with Wallace. Totally unwilling to use no huddle. Our running game was creepy the most of the time and lets be honest we are 8-8 football team with the best statistical defense, a great quaterback and before the year in discussion for having the best Wide Receiving Core of the league. And I am sure only because of Ben this offense looked not that bad that it is with Haley. Some may say Roethlisberger has most of the fault with what happend the last weeks. And in some way he had but the play calling was crap all year just at the end Roethlisberger hadn't enough in the tank to over come it.

GoFor7
01-03-2013, 11:20 AM
I want Haley to stay.... I've seen Haley run offenses... he did it for a very untalented KC team and out coached a vastly more talented Mike Tomlin led steeler team. Even this season when our offense was healthy we looked pretty good. It wasnt' until the injuries and turnovers started that we could no longer score points. Facts are facts...when Ben returned from injury our offense imploded. We looked significantly better with Batch at QB...then with Ben the last few weeks.

I also think the plan going into the season was for us to run the ball. That was Mike Tomlin's plan as much as it was Haley's plan. When the running game failed...the offense struggled...then ultimately imploded when Ben imploded. The fumbling didn't help matters. So it would be really premature to say Haley isn't a capable coach.

Hopefully next season Ben gets behind Haley's system and our O-line stays healthy..... If those two things happen I see no reason why we don't go deep in the playoffs. If we can run the ball... those deep passing plays that Ben so badly wants to run will open up. It takes time to build the efficient style offense that Haley wants to bring. Ben fought it from the start... maybe this off season he'll see the light?

Or maybe they should realize they aren't a team that can pound the ball 40 times a game anymore. Maybe Ben never bought into the system because he was handcuffed until 3rd and long and until the Steelers needed him to bail them out from their own stupidity in the last 2 minutes. Think Brady or Manning would like that if their teams played that same kind of outdated style?

This offense was Marty ball. It was designed to play close to the vest and hope the defense kept the team in it long enough for Ben to pull a miracle out of his ass in the end.

MACH1
01-03-2013, 11:22 AM
Send Haley get Norv.

kan_t
01-03-2013, 11:25 AM
Unless the Steelers are sure that they can get Norv Turner, I hope Haley stays. He's a good OC.

Terminator
01-03-2013, 11:26 AM
8-8

No playoffs

One of the worst-ranked offenses in the league


Yeah, no thanks

steelfury02
01-03-2013, 11:27 AM
Ben was using 10 different targets before he went down - not Marty ball - the reference doesn't apply to the scheme.

Just because you saw a couple games of it used when Ben was out and a few series upon his return doesn't make it an absolute label.

A lot of people would say Cowher's team played this Marty ball, with the only difference being that in the 90s, they weren't afraid to take chances, go down field, and use some trickery in critical situations

steelfury02
01-03-2013, 11:29 AM
8-8

No playoffs

One of the worst-ranked offenses in the league


Yeah, no thanks

The defense is responsible for a couple losses
Turnovers are responsible for a couple losses
Injuries are responsible for a drop off in talent, mistakes, and probably some losses.

I'd say lack of execution played a big part as well. You can't lay an entire record on 1 guy. 6-3 was looking pretty good to a lot of people. Separate the OC hate with the reality of the situation. Put that situation on any team, and you might get one winning season in spite of it - this record is a result of poor execution and injuries. The standard is the standard so long as you aren't decimated.

GoFor7
01-03-2013, 11:32 AM
Ben was using 10 different targets before he went down - not Marty ball - the reference doesn't apply to the scheme.

Just because you saw a couple games of it used when Ben was out and a few series upon his return doesn't make it an absolute label.

My bad - Marty ball is run, run, pass. The Steelers offense did that only sometimes. Other times it was run, bubble screen, pass. Or run, end-around, pass. Or run, check-down for 1 yd gain, pass.

And they did that when Ben was in. Remember the Denver game? Run, run, pass. How about after Allen's first interception in the Bengals game? Run, run, sack. Because only in Pittsburgh, scoring quickly and not fretting over time of possession is criminal.

steelfury02
01-03-2013, 11:40 AM
My bad - Marty ball is run, run, pass. The Steelers offense did that only sometimes. Other times it was run, bubble screen, pass. Or run, end-around, pass. Or run, check-down for 1 yd gain, pass.

And they did that when Ben was in. Remember the Denver game? Run, run, pass. How about after Allen's first interception in the Bengals game? Run, run, sack. Because only in Pittsburgh, scoring quickly and not fretting over time of possession is criminal.

you mean the marty-ball offense where the 2 TDs in that game were touchdown passes to Wallace and Miller?

You mean the same marty-ball offense where Ben threw 40 times in that same Denver game?

I'll give you the Bengals game - but, maybe because he was throwing terribly and had 2 ints. 14/28. Same with the Denver game. 22/40.

Ben's high flying offense has nothing to lean on - no proof of production - none.

madtowndrunkard
01-03-2013, 11:43 AM
Or maybe they should realize they aren't a team that can pound the ball 40 times a game anymore. Maybe Ben never bought into the system because he was handcuffed until 3rd and long and until the Steelers needed him to bail them out from their own stupidity in the last 2 minutes. Think Brady or Manning would like that if their teams played that same kind of outdated style?

This offense was Marty ball. It was designed to play close to the vest and hope the defense kept the team in it long enough for Ben to pull a miracle out of his ass in the end.


First off... If we tried to run our offense like NE or Denver... Ben would have been killed and we'd probably be no better then a 6-10 team. You seriously think Ben could run the offense that Brady is running? What on earth makes you think Ben can carry an entire offense on his own w/ a NE style offense? What has he ever done to make you think that? If you say won SB's... you are crazy... because those SB rings were not won by Ben.. yea he's a good QB... but he's not Brady or Manning... People need to wake up and smell the coffee... Ben is not in the class of Brady or Manning... they are passers.. Ben is a gamer..hes' tough...he's resilient.... he's not even Brett Favre...(which some of you like to compare him with) To say Ben is like Brett favre is utterly ridiculous.

you cannot just ask Ben to use his arm to win games.. and NOT only because Ben isn't accurate enough or quick enough with his decision making... because our O-line is not good enough to run that offense. Our O-line did start to gel around mid season...and we started to look damn good. Then the injuries happened. Also in case you didn't notice Ben was given the key's to the offense when he returned from injury... he failed miserable. Maybe injuries were a part...but the other part was the cast around him wasn't capable either.

Haley's offense looked pretty damn good early in the season. We didn't score more points under Arians style offense of swing for the fences every time you get the ball. I understand the thinking by Arians actually... when you have a HR hitter like Ben... try to hit HR's.... the problem is NFL defenses can slow that down...and they did. Ben aired it out often but we didn't score points. The Rooney's believe in small ball... Haley believes in that philosophy.. Ben doesn't. Until Ben realizes who he really is.. we'll struggle... if he accepts the philosophy we will win playoff games. It works...especially when you have DL's defense to help.

Steeler7BR
01-03-2013, 11:46 AM
you mean the marty-ball offense where the 2 TDs in that game were touchdown passes to Wallace and Miller?

You mean the same marty-ball offense where Ben threw 40 times in that same Denver game?

I'll give you the Bengals game - but, maybe because he was throwing terribly and had 2 ints. 14/28. Same with the Denver game. 22/40.

Ben's high flying offense has nothing to lean on - no proof of production - none.

Exactally this peace of crap hopefully let HalIey get out of Pittsburgh. Ben is not the problem he was clearly out of rhythm afte his injury but play calling was creepy the whole year. Only good thing Haley did he worked Heath great into his offense but thats about it.

Steeler7BR
01-03-2013, 11:48 AM
First off... If we tried to run our offense like NE or Denver... Ben would have been killed and we'd probably be no better then a 6-10 team. You seriously think Ben could run the offense that Brady is running? What on earth makes you think Ben can carry an entire offense on his own w/ a NE style offense? What has he ever done to make you think that? If you say won SB's... you are crazy... because those SB rings were not won by Ben.. yea he's a good QB... but he's not Brady or Manning... People need to wake up and smell the coffee... Ben is not in the class of Brady or Manning... they are passers.. Ben is a gamer..hes' tough...he's resilient.... he's not even Brett Favre...(which some of you like to compare him with) To say Ben is like Brett favre is utterly ridiculous.

you cannot just ask Ben to use his arm to win games.. and NOT only because Ben isn't accurate enough or quick enough with his decision making... because our O-line is not good enough to run that offense. Our O-line did start to gel around mid season...and we started to look damn good. Then the injuries happened. Also in case you didn't notice Ben was given the key's to the offense when he returned from injury... he failed miserable. Maybe injuries were a part...but the other part was the cast around him wasn't capable either.

Haley's offense looked pretty damn good early in the season. We didn't score more points under Arians style offense of swing for the fences every time you get the ball. I understand the thinking by Arians actually... when you have a HR hitter like Ben... try to hit HR's.... the problem is NFL defenses can slow that down...and they did. Ben aired it out often but we didn't score points. The Rooney's believe in small ball... Haley believes in that philosophy.. Ben doesn't. Until Ben realizes who he really is.. we'll struggle... if he accepts the philosophy we will win playoff games. It works...especially when you have DL's defense to help.

When Ben is at his best with a great offensive line he could be a Brady or a Manning no question. He's that great and it's very sad that even steeler fans don't see that.

steelfury02
01-03-2013, 11:51 AM
Exactally this peace of crap hopefully let HalIey get out of Pittsburgh. Ben is not the problem he was clearly out of rhythm afte his injury but play calling was creepy the whole year. Only good thing Haley did he worked Heath great into his offense but thats about it.

I'm not sure what "Exactally this peace of crap hopefully let Halley get out" means

I've acknowledge, he wasn't right upon return. He couldn't even check down or hit some of those beloved bubble screens - very low or very high - def hurt

GoFor7
01-03-2013, 11:52 AM
you mean the marty-ball offense where the 2 TDs in that game were touchdown passes to Wallace and Miller?

You mean the same marty-ball offense where Ben threw 40 times in that same Denver game?

Lol! This was the response after I talked shit on the offense after the Denver game. "40 passes to 26 runs! da stillerz ain't run da ball enough!"

Yo, their running game was snuffed out because of how predictable it was and Ben had to bail the team out on 3rd down and at the end of the game when the defense couldn't stop Peyton. It's not about the number of run or pass attempts, it's about the way they are used.

I'll give you the Bengals game - but, maybe because he was throwing terribly and had 2 ints. 14/28. Same with the Denver game. 22/40.

Which proves he can't bail the team out from their stupidity all the time. Again, you look so much at the run/pass ratio but you fail to consider the circumstances in which the plays are run. The Steelers stubbornly ran on first and second down, which made it easy for Denver's defense to stop. They had to rely on Ben at the end because they had no choice.

Now in contrast, look at how the Broncos ran the ball that day. They were unpredictable in the way they did it, and they used a lot of no-huddle. They weren't pissing their pants over time of possession, nor were they concerned about how football was played in the early 70's.

Ben's high flying offense has nothing to lean on - no proof of production - none.

And Haley's offense has proof.....?

Ben had two super bowls before Haley came along.

I would explain to you that ball control offense don't score many points, but it seems to go in one ear and out the other, so I won't bother.

lardlad
01-03-2013, 11:52 AM
First off... If we tried to run our offense like NE or Denver... Ben would have been killed and we'd probably be no better then a 6-10 team. You seriously think Ben could run the offense that Brady is running? What on earth makes you think Ben can carry an entire offense on his own w/ a NE style offense? What has he ever done to make you think that? If you say won SB's... you are crazy... because those SB rings were not won by Ben.. yea he's a good QB... but he's not Brady or Manning... People need to wake up and smell the coffee... Ben is not in the class of Brady or Manning... they are passers.. Ben is a gamer..hes' tough...he's resilient.... he's not even Brett Favre...(which some of you like to compare him with) To say Ben is like Brett favre is utterly ridiculous.

you cannot just ask Ben to use his arm to win games.. and NOT only because Ben isn't accurate enough or quick enough with his decision making... because our O-line is not good enough to run that offense. Our O-line did start to gel around mid season...and we started to look damn good. Then the injuries happened. Also in case you didn't notice Ben was given the key's to the offense when he returned from injury... he failed miserable. Maybe injuries were a part...but the other part was the cast around him wasn't capable either.

Haley's offense looked pretty damn good early in the season. We didn't score more points under Arians style offense of swing for the fences every time you get the ball. I understand the thinking by Arians actually... when you have a HR hitter like Ben... try to hit HR's.... the problem is NFL defenses can slow that down...and they did. Ben aired it out often but we didn't score points. The Rooney's believe in small ball... Haley believes in that philosophy.. Ben doesn't. Until Ben realizes who he really is.. we'll struggle... if he accepts the philosophy we will win playoff games. It works...especially when you have DL's defense to help.

I think Ben is a little better than you give him credit for, but I think you absolutely nailed it. Especially about the line. He rarely has time to go down field and when he does there were drops or he missed them. If anyone is not happy with the log ball, look at the attempts, I'll bet there were plenty and they only connected on a few.

And yeah Ben cannot play like manning or brady and vice versa.

Where do you get your suspicions on handing the "Keys" over to Ben in the second half of the season? I had the same suspicion but if there is more to it than that, I'd like to see it.

madtowndrunkard
01-03-2013, 11:53 AM
I do believe we had more points per game this season then last.... How that's possible is pretty amazing considering we lost Ben for several games this year...and when he returned he was awful. Also considering just how banged up our O-line was this year compared to last.



If Haley sticks around and Ben does a better job running it..... we'll be damn good.

steelfury02
01-03-2013, 11:53 AM
When Ben is at his best with a great offensive line he could be a Brady or a Manning no question. He's that great and it's very sad that even steeler fans don't see that.

No I see it - he just won't buy into something other than the idea of him being in control, which, doesn't work.

Those other two guys know when to listen and learn and go from there. Ben portrays that he is above it - hence, plateaued. If Ben progressed, then maybe they would go more no huddle.

Some of the Arians lovers fail to recall that Arians wouldn't let Ben go no-huddle that often either. There is a reason - and Ben, and his receivers, are a main part of that - not enough discipline.

Steeler7BR
01-03-2013, 11:56 AM
I'm not sure what "Exactally this peace of crap hopefully let Halley get out" means

I've acknowledge, he wasn't right upon return. He couldn't even check down or hit some of those beloved bubble screens - very low or very high - def hurt

Oh something got away there I think I deleted something accidentlly there. I think I wanted to say exactlly this peace of crap got as in that mess or something like that hopefully it let Haley get out of Pittsburgh.

GoFor7
01-03-2013, 11:57 AM
I do believe we had more points per game this season then last.... How that's possible is pretty amazing considering we lost Ben for several games this year...and when he returned he was awful. Also considering just how banged up our O-line was this year compared to last.



If Haley sticks around and Ben does a better job running it..... we'll be damn good.

The points per game was still subpar for this offense.

Some of the Arians lovers fail to recall that Arians wouldn't let Ben go no-huddle that often either. There is a reason - and Ben, and his receivers, are a main part of that - not enough discipline.

It wasn't because of Ben. It was mainly because of all the injuries and turnover on that offensive line.

torpedoshell31
01-03-2013, 11:58 AM
Next thing they'll be sayin Whiz back to Pitt.
Whats next :noidea:

John Clayton of ESPN stated that Whisenhut could very well end up in Pittsburgh as our new OC if Haley goes to the Cards.

GoFor7
01-03-2013, 12:00 PM
John Clayton of ESPN stated that Whisenhut could very well end up in Pittsburgh as our new OC if Haley goes to the Cards.

There must've been some sort of healing moment between Whiz and the Rooneys if that is going to happen.

steelfury02
01-03-2013, 12:03 PM
Lol! This was the response after I talked shit on the offense after the Denver game. "40 passes to 26 runs! da stillerz ain't run da ball enough!"

Yo, their running game was snuffed out because of how predictable it was and Ben had to bail the team out on 3rd down and at the end of the game when the defense couldn't stop Peyton. It's not about the number of run or pass attempts, it's about the way they are used.



Which proves he can't bail the team out from their stupidity all the time. Again, you look so much at the run/pass ratio but you fail to consider the circumstances in which the plays are run. The Steelers stubbornly ran on first and second down, which made it easy for Denver's defense to stop. They had to rely on Ben at the end because they had no choice.

Now in contrast, look at how the Broncos ran the ball that day. They were unpredictable in the way they did it, and they used a lot of no-huddle. They weren't pissing their pants over time of possession, nor were they concerned about how football was played in the early 70's.



And Haley's offense has proof.....?

Ben had two super bowls before Haley came along.

I would explain to you that ball control offense don't score many points, but it seems to go in one ear and out the other, so I won't bother.

The circumstances? They had the lead at the half. The circumstances? Ben threw a pick 6 and a 2 pt conversion. Essentially, I'd say the offense was competitive for the majority of the game.

Ben needs to earn the right to go no huddle - he's the one that audibles into the predictable run plays. If they had a smart QB (and by smart, I mean smart enough to let go of his ego to listen to others) he would have been given the reigns by 3 dif OCs by now. He hasn't - not all 3 are crazy. You want Ben to be Manning or Brady (which is the master dink and dunker - a lot like Joe Montanta ((too 80s football style for me! - who cares if it works!?)))

We won't convince each other. When I see Ben become a student like your other two faves, then I'll shut up - otherwise - Ben is part of the problem IMO.

Steeler7BR
01-03-2013, 12:05 PM
No I see it - he just won't buy into something other than the idea of him being in control, which, doesn't work.

Those other two guys know when to listen and learn and go from there. Ben portrays that he is above it - hence, plateaued. If Ben progressed, then maybe they would go more no huddle.

Some of the Arians lovers fail to recall that Arians wouldn't let Ben go no-huddle that often either. There is a reason - and Ben, and his receivers, are a main part of that - not enough discipline.

You didn't just said that Ben isn't good enough for the no huddle are you. Do you know who was running it in a success at the start of the season. Joe Flacco and you tell me Ben can't run a no huddle offense? Ben is a very intelligant Quarterback and well capable for no huddle but the 2 guys you mentioned there they just wanna run the show like they want it to be and aren't open for something else. It's maybe out of topic here but the same thing is destroying the Lakers at the moment. An open for nothing coach thanks Mr. Haley.

TRH
01-03-2013, 12:07 PM
Kirby is a RB coach. So he may just run, run, run the ball. Ben will not like that..:sofunny:

even though he's a RB coach - we'll still be airing the ball alot. There's no denying its a "passing" league now.
What we need is one good (great) back to be our #1 guy, which would then help the pass game. I'm not a big fan of this running back by committee.

tony hipchest
01-03-2013, 12:08 PM
Send Haley get Norv.i agree. get norv at all costs.

he has SB pedigree, tons of HC experience, and turned in golden running seasons with guys like emmit smith, stephen davis, rickey williams, frank gore and ladainian tomlinson (some with piss poor lines).

madtowndrunkard
01-03-2013, 12:08 PM
I think Ben is a little better than you give him credit for, but I think you absolutely nailed it. Especially about the line. He rarely has time to go down field and when he does there were drops or he missed them. If anyone is not happy with the log ball, look at the attempts, I'll bet there were plenty and they only connected on a few.

And yeah Ben cannot play like manning or brady and vice versa.

Where do you get your suspicions on handing the "Keys" over to Ben in the second half of the season? I had the same suspicion but if there is more to it than that, I'd like to see it.

I think when our O-line went down...and took our running game with it.. we really had no choice to put more pressure on Ben to score points. I also think Ben had been lobbying for this all season... he got his way and it flopped.

As for Ben's talent.... me saying hes' no Brady or Manning or even Brett Farve is not saying he's no good. He's damn good. Ben is a HR hitter... he's a gamer... he used to be clutch also.... problem is HR hitters also strike out a lot when they swing for the fences. That style puts more pressure on the defense...we needed a shift in offensive style... the owners demanded it... our talent demanded it. Ben is a great QB... but he's not any of those HOF qb's being mentioned. The stats prove it.

Ben has always struggled to consistently score points... that's' just a fact. Blame it on the coaches, blame the talent around him, or maybe blame it on Ben's talent? take your pick... but lets face it.. Ben's had the chance to carry the offense in the past... the offense still struggled to score. It's time to accept it...and maybe try a new philosophy on offense. I think Haley brings that to the table.

I think Arians success in Indy also supports my thinking... his QB is a true passer now. Not saying Ben is bad... I'll probably argue that Ben is a HOF qb after all is said and done. It's just a difference of skill set.

TRH
01-03-2013, 12:08 PM
its just permission to interview. Chill. He's not hired yet.

StainlessStill
01-03-2013, 12:08 PM
This is nuts to me. Ever since Art II whispered in Tomin's ear to fire Arians, it seems like Tomlin is under higher and higher scrutiny with his staff. I love Tomlin, believe he is GREAT under these circumstances. John Clayton stated on ESPN that if Haley goes to Arizona, then Whiz could very well be our new O.C. Crazy. I'm just going to sit back and watch.

madtowndrunkard
01-03-2013, 12:15 PM
There must've been some sort of healing moment between Whiz and the Rooneys if that is going to happen.


A move like that would probably also be the end of Ben in Pittsburgh. It's no secret that Ben and Whiz were not big fans of each other.

Also anyone noticing the theme through out Ben's career? No one other then Bruce Arians ever liked the guy. His teammates especially. Now they say all the right things...but I'm not buying it. This offense also lacks "team first" players. Bettis and Ward were prime examples of team first players that were true leaders. Ben has tried to fill that roll...but when he cant' even get on board with the coaches for the sake of the team....it falls on deaf ears.

TRH
01-03-2013, 12:20 PM
This is nuts to me. Ever since Art II whispered in Tomin's ear to fire Arians, it seems like Tomlin is under higher and higher scrutiny with his staff. I love Tomlin, believe he is GREAT under these circumstances. John Clayton stated on ESPN that if Haley goes to Arizona, then Whiz could very well be our new O.C. Crazy. I'm just going to sit back and watch.



Whisenhunt is reportedly being pursued - and it could happen very quickly - by the Buffalo Bills for their HC position.

harrison'samonster
01-03-2013, 12:24 PM
its just permission to interview. Chill. He's not hired yet.

exactly what I'm thinking. Anything can happen, and it's fun to think about it, but I wouldn't read anything into it.

steelfury02
01-03-2013, 12:36 PM
Brady and Manning don't want to listen to anyone?

Fine - I can see where someone would think that. Manning calling the shots (proven capability) Brady yelling at his O.C., standing at the line, calling the shots, winning despite the OC in place.

Ben hasn't shown the capability or given reason for trust. He is smart - I didn't say that - just hasn't proven capable to be willing to do what it takes.

I want Ben. I don't want anyone else. He is fully capable if he gives in a little. But he is one stubborn son of a gun that I think doesn't know best. The "He's a 2x SB winning QB with another appearance" is fine and all - if you want to rest on that. I don't.

that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

NSMaster56
01-03-2013, 12:39 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000121535/article/arizona-cardinals-request-todd-haley-interview

If he gets this job the front office needs to be on the phone with Norv Turner fast. He may not have been the best head coach, but i think he is a very good O-coordinator??? Whats your thoughts??

Many teams will be all over Norv. Jets, Cowboys, every other team who cleared out their FO, has a young QB and/or struggled offensively last year (Raiders, Jags, Cards...).

If Haley does leave, the best replacement option may be internal.

steelfury02
01-03-2013, 12:54 PM
Norv is the sexy pick. I wouldn't mind it at all. Do you think he would rather go somewhere else and start over with someone younger - or chomp more at the chance to have someone like Ben to work with?

NSMaster56
01-03-2013, 01:00 PM
Norv is the sexy pick. I wouldn't mind it at all. Do you think he would rather go somewhere else and start over with someone younger - or chomp more at the chance to have someone like Ben to work with?

Good point about talent. Talent wise, it's hard to beat what 'Burgh has to offer.

Still, we're counting chickens here and the money/exposure factor can't be discounted.

Teams like NY and DAL (and maybe even CLE and their new ownership) will be more likely to pony up extra dough to bring in Norv (and Norv came up in DAL, so maybe there's a 'loyalty factor'?).

If Norv wants to win and/or have the most talent, and if Haley does leave, then PIT is surely in the top-3 of his best choices.

If Norv has loyalties elsewhere (DAL/OAK), wants to chase the money/big market (DAL/NYJ) or work with a young team (everyone else), PIT is nowhere near his radar.

PhantomJB93
01-03-2013, 01:03 PM
I'd be okay with Whiz back as OC in the event Haley leaves, but I'd really like to see another year of Haley's system.

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-03-2013, 01:14 PM
It is WAYYYYYYYYY too early to give up on Todd Haley' system.

For starters, even though it suffered from the same broken-azz Oline and lack of running game as under Arians' scheme-- it DID score more points than any of Arian's offenses I believe.

Also, until the injury bug rolled around, until Ben got injured in what appeared to me to be a freak injury, and until we lost our entire secondary-- we were starting to roll at 6-3, Ben was having a career season, and the offense was starting to look like something respectable.

Then, Ben has a baby, gets hurt, and never returns to form. All 4 CBs get hurt. We lose 3 of 5 starters on the Oline. The RBs forget how to hold the ball--- and it is time to fire Haley?

Who, pray tell, are we going to replace him with?

EVERYBODY is looking to send Norv Turner an offer. Methinks the Jets will probably make another dumb move and break the bank to get Norv-- they are that desperate.

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-03-2013, 01:22 PM
Folks complain that Haley did not go deep enough with Wallace this season. What happened when they did send Wallace some long ones? They bounced right off his hands or he watched the defender comeback for the pass he was supposed to catch.

Last offseason, the same people who want Haley's head, were the ones who were saying that we need to run the ball more to take some pressure off of Ben. They were the same people who were always saying things like : "Even if the running game is not workng at first-- you have to be patient and keep at it". They were the same people who used to get furious at Arians empty-set offenses that did not even feature the threat of a possible running play.

Folks complained that Haley did not let Ben run the no-huddle enough. What happened when they did? Lots of pick-6's as far as I can see.

Folks complain that Haley kept the "reigns" on Ben too much this season. Well, we were 6-3, Ben was having a career season, the offense was racking up ridiculous ToP and keeping our aging defense fresh (a defense that I noticed is not getting any of the blame of this season), and Ben was actually being mentioned in MVP conversations.

Fast forward a month to December. They give the keys to the offense to Ben. He reverts back to his "hold the ball forever looking for an option downfield that isn't there" behind a ramshackle offensive line. The team goes 1-5, we watch in horror as Wallace puts deep pass after deep pass on the ground. The run game struggles behind an Oline that is 40% rookie.

Finally, the fans blame the OC and want him out of town after one season.

torpedoshell31
01-03-2013, 01:24 PM
Listening to "The Fan" yesterday it was rumored that the Chargers are interested in Arians because of the great job he did with the Colts. If Rivers and Arians don't hit it off, the speculation was that Ben wouldn't re-sign here and team up with Arians again in San Diego. Of course this is all speculation right now.

truesteelerfan
01-03-2013, 01:25 PM
Wasn't Chan Gailey our OC back in 95 when O'Donnell forgot how to play in the SB - He's available and if I recall did a good job adapting to the players he had with Thigpen and Morris. I don't like the idea of a pass happy attach, but with our WR team - it might work. He's available.

bornaSteelersfan
01-03-2013, 01:32 PM
Wasn't Chan Gailey our OC back in 95 when O'Donnell forgot how to play in the SB - He's available and if I recall did a good job adapting to the players he had with Thigpen and Morris. I don't like the idea of a pass happy attach, but with our WR team - it might work. He's available.

"Toss out Todd Haley and take a chance with Chan Gailey"

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-03-2013, 01:44 PM
"Toss out Todd Haley and take a chance with Chan Gailey"

How long has Chan Gailey been away from football? Is Haley THAT bad?

steelfury02
01-03-2013, 01:45 PM
It is WAYYYYYYYYY too early to give up on Todd Haley' system.

For starters, even though it suffered from the same broken-azz Oline and lack of running game as under Arians' scheme-- it DID score more points than any of Arian's offenses I believe.

Also, until the injury bug rolled around, until Ben got injured in what appeared to me to be a freak injury, and until we lost our entire secondary-- we were starting to roll at 6-3, Ben was having a career season, and the offense was starting to look like something respectable.

Then, Ben has a baby, gets hurt, and never returns to form. All 4 CBs get hurt. We lose 3 of 5 starters on the Oline. The RBs forget how to hold the ball--- and it is time to fire Haley?

Who, pray tell, are we going to replace him with?

EVERYBODY is looking to send Norv Turner an offer. Methinks the Jets will probably make another dumb move and break the bank to get Norv-- they are that desperate.

I agree - someone will break the bank, or, a combination of starting over and being 2nd place in the money race by a thin margin (think Dallas - I think Romo is done there)

steelfury02
01-03-2013, 01:47 PM
Listening to "The Fan" yesterday it was rumored that the Chargers are interested in Arians because of the great job he did with the Colts. If Rivers and Arians don't hit it off, the speculation was that Ben wouldn't re-sign here and team up with Arians again in San Diego. Of course this is all speculation right now.

lol, if that were true - Ben would be an absolute fool - talk about taking a HUGE step back just to "have his way" Sounds like Joe Namath to the Rams to me LOLOLOLOLOLOL

My first gut is that isn't true.

SteelersCanada
01-03-2013, 01:50 PM
You guys realize that Roethlisberger didn't like Whisenhunt at all, right? They clashed constantly and if I'm being honest, I don't want him back in here. I'll take Ben over Whiz every single time because, well, one of them if a franchise quarterback and the heart of our offense and the other is a failed head coach experiment that has a chip on his shoulder.

I'd bring in Norv Turner. He's a more laid-back, less in-your-face kind of coordinator and knows how to use offensive talent. First things first, though. We need a legitimate WR to play with Manny and AB and, more importantly, a fucking Running Back that's worth something. It doesn't matter who our OC is if we can't grab a legitimate RB and reestablish our ground game. It's just as important for teams to respect the ground game so we can work off play-action and go down the field. Until we get a legitimate RB, who our coordinator happens to be is completely irrelevant.

GMU Steeler
01-03-2013, 01:54 PM
I'm okay with Haley staying. I think I read that every year we've had a new OC the team has missed the playoffs but then bounced back the next year. Anyhow, if Haley does in fact go. I'd prefer Turner over Whisenhunt even though Ben is probably more familiar with Whisenhunt's system. It would be interesting if that did in fact happen considering that Haley was Whiz's OC in AZ and he'd replace Haley as OC here. Just interesting symetry. Thought for sure that AZ would hire Reid but I hear KC did.

steelfury02
01-03-2013, 02:03 PM
I'm okay with Haley staying. I think I read that every year we've had a new OC the team has missed the playoffs but then bounced back the next year. Anyhow, if Haley does in fact go. I'd prefer Turner over Whisenhunt even though Ben is probably more familiar with Whisenhunt's system. It would be interesting if that did in fact happen considering that Haley was Whiz's OC in AZ and he'd replace Haley as OC here. Just interesting symetry. Thought for sure that AZ would hire Reid but I hear KC did.

If I were a potential OC candidate for the Steelers, I would demand they get a running back by 2nd round or get a free-agent name.

I'm not saying that is what the Steelers should do - but I'm not sure I'd like walking into the RB mess we currently have.

How about package deal to Vikings or Seahawks. Lynch or Peterson for Wallace, Mendy, and hand pick a defender not named Lewis and 5th and 7th round pick There, I said it. I want the RB sitch to be fixed - THAT MUCH.

No "Marty Ball" No "Cowher Ball" - a leader and mainstay at RB. That's all I want

drucifer
01-03-2013, 02:14 PM
How long has Chan Gailey been away from football? Is Haley THAT bad?

What has it been, 4 days now?

GMU Steeler
01-03-2013, 02:16 PM
If I were a potential OC candidate for the Steelers, I would demand they get a running back by 2nd round or get a free-agent name.

I'm not saying that is what the Steelers should do - but I'm not sure I'd like walking into the RB mess we currently have.

How about package deal to Vikings or Seahawks. Lynch or Peterson for Wallace, Mendy, and hand pick a defender not named Lewis and 5th and 7th round pick There, I said it. I want the RB sitch to be fixed - THAT MUCH.

No "Marty Ball" No "Cowher Ball" - a leader and mainstay at RB. That's all I want

We can't trade Wallace now that he's a FA I believe. Anyhow, I wouldn't be surprised if we get one in FA or early in the draft. I don't think a RB is worth a number one on unless that someone is an Adrian Peterson like talent but that's a moot point anyhow.

steelfury02
01-03-2013, 02:27 PM
We can't trade Wallace now that he's a FA I believe. Anyhow, I wouldn't be surprised if we get one in FA or early in the draft. I don't think a RB is worth a number one on unless that someone is an Adrian Peterson like talent but that's a moot point anyhow.

yea - I was more or less being sarcastic - getting a huge name at RB is a pipe dream - there would be no reason for either of those teams to give up their RBs, especially while their teams' arrows are pointing up (both in playoffs due in large part because of them - more so in Adrian's case)

Is there anyone out there that wants to bring guts and glory back to Steelers running game? Any takerz?

BritishSteel
01-03-2013, 02:32 PM
You guys realize that Roethlisberger didn't like Whisenhunt at all, right? They clashed constantly and if I'm being honest, I don't want him back in here. I'll take Ben over Whiz every single time because, well, one of them if a franchise quarterback and the heart of our offense and the other is a failed head coach experiment that has a chip on his shoulder.

I'd bring in Norv Turner. He's a more laid-back, less in-your-face kind of coordinator and knows how to use offensive talent. First things first, though. We need a legitimate WR to play with Manny and AB and, more importantly, a fucking Running Back that's worth something. It doesn't matter who our OC is if we can't grab a legitimate RB and reestablish our ground game. It's just as important for teams to respect the ground game so we can work off play-action and go down the field. Until we get a legitimate RB, who our coordinator happens to be is completely irrelevant.

If your definition of Whiz is a 'failed head coach' and that is a legitimate reason for not hiring him , how is Turner different. By looking at their most recent jobs, I'd argue Turner's failure with SD is at least as abject as Whiz at the Cards.

This is not that I think Whiz is a sensible choice, I'd be staggered if he came back here and It isn't as if the Cards have actually appointed Haley yet.

fer522
01-03-2013, 02:43 PM
i agree. get norv at all costs.

he has SB pedigree, tons of HC experience, and turned in golden running seasons with guys like emmit smith, stephen davis, rickey williams, frank gore and ladainian tomlinson (some with piss poor lines).

Dude really?!?!?!

Emmit smith
Stephen Davis
Rickey Williams
frank gore
Ladainian Tomlinson

And we have

Happy feet
Redman
Dwyer

Give Haley those guys and he'd do the same :noidea:

austinfrench76
01-03-2013, 02:49 PM
No matter who we picked up - Jesus himself - it would still be 3 OC's in 3 years. You ever see what happens to teams that change out position coaches like that?! You get Alex Smith. I know, he lost his job to a rookie, but it's still a valid point. Let Haley get his scheme implemented and then hate his guts. We will eventually anyways! Arians took us a to a couple of SB's and he was hated with a passion! This could be a moot point as haley wants to be an HC again so he will be gone sooner than later.

steelfury02
01-03-2013, 03:06 PM
Jesus as OC? Guess that makes Ben Judas

EDIT: No takers? I wasn't being serious - simply making light of recent debates with my fellow forumerz

steelfury02
01-03-2013, 03:10 PM
in bizarro world yesterday - the Browns interviewed Whiz - did anyone else know this? This would be so weird.

It's like the guy wants to be in Pittsburgh so he takes the leftovers, then goes for the closest city?

Good grief.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8803627/cleveland-browns-interview-ken-whisenhunt-head-coaching-job-doug-marrone-chip-kelly-next

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-03-2013, 03:15 PM
I hope he stays, but if the Cards make him the head man, then stuff happens. I think the foundation for offensive success is currently on the roster and a OC that has a balanced philosophy can make it work.

GoFor7
01-03-2013, 03:16 PM
Apparently while Ben was the most vocal about his dislike of Arians' firing, he wasn't the only one:

Jeff Dickerson ‏@ESPNChiBears

#Bears TE Matt Spaeth on Bruce Arians: "I can tell you when Pitt got rid of him, nobody was happy in that locker room, especially Ben."

Justp94
01-03-2013, 03:17 PM
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/286864533102931968

Please God, let this happen.

Getting a new Offensive Coordinator would mess things up again, we need to have a consistent gameplan and offense to be successful next year.

VictoryFormation
01-03-2013, 03:18 PM
About the Todd Haley interview with the Cardinals:
This looks like a token interview. After firing Ken Whisenhunt, why would they hire one of his former offensive coordinators? I'm sure they want to go in a different direction. I heard Andy Reed, who just got canned in Philadelphia, might be a serious candidate for the Arizona head coaching job.

GoFor7
01-03-2013, 03:20 PM
About the Todd Haley interview with the Cardinals:
This looks like a token interview. After firing Ken Whisenhunt, why would they hire one of his former offensive coordinators? I'm sure they want to go in a different direction. I heard Andy Reed, who just got canned in Philadelphia, might be a serious candidate for the Arizona head coaching job.

I guess you haven't look at any of the major pro sports websites? Andy Reid is very close to working out a final deal with KC. That could make Haley the top candidate for the Arizona job.

SteelersCanada
01-03-2013, 03:24 PM
Reid wanted to bring Heckert along with him and Arizona didn't want anything to do with some sort of package deal. So, Reid isn't going to Arizona and there are multiple reports (the most valid from Mike Jurecki of XTRA 910 in Arizona) that Haley is the frontrunner for the position. It wouldn't surprise me, Haley still has a great relationship with the management for the Cardinals. It makes sense all around if I'm being completely honest here.

VictoryFormation
01-03-2013, 03:32 PM
Yeah, I just saw that. I'd still be surprised if the Cardinals Hired Haley. That would be like replacing Whisenhunt with somebody like Whisenhunt. I can't see the reasoning there.

teegre
01-03-2013, 03:32 PM
i agree. get norv at all costs.

I've said it a million times.

You've said it a billion times.

Now, I just need to hear the Steelers say it once. :wink02:

VictoryFormation
01-03-2013, 03:41 PM
Or, what it might be the real reason behind the Cardinals interviewing Haley is that they probably want to bring him back as their offensive coordinator, under their next head coaching hire. They went to the Super Bowl with Haley as their OC, before he left for the head coaching job at Kansas City. Teams do that kind of stuff. The Steelers would not have granted them permission to talk to him, otherwise.

stb_steeler
01-03-2013, 03:49 PM
Or, what it might be the real reason behind the Cardinals interviewing Haley is that they probably want to bring him back as their offensive coordinator, under their next head coaching hire. They went to the Super Bowl with Haley as their OC, before he left for the head coaching job at Kansas City. Teams do that kind of stuff. The Steelers would not have granted them permission to talk to him, otherwise.

Makes ya wonder why the Steelers are ok with Haley talkin to Arizona. Could it be that they may have a plan or something up their sleeve? Or is it some wishful thinking on the Steelers part?...Either way you look at it, it seems strange! :noidea:

Danny136200
01-03-2013, 03:52 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000121535/article/arizona-cardinals-request-todd-haley-interview

If he gets this job the front office needs to be on the phone with Norv Turner fast. He may not have been the best head coach, but i think he is a very good O-coordinator??? Whats your thoughts??

Do not think he will settle for another coordinator job. Plus he might cost a hell of alot more than what O. Coordinators usually get.

Danny136200
01-03-2013, 03:53 PM
Kirby is a RB coach. So he may just run, run, run the ball. Ben will not like that..:sofunny:

Just because he is an RB coach does not mean he will only run the ball.

SteelersCanada
01-03-2013, 03:54 PM
Makes ya wonder why the Steelers are ok with Haley talkin to Arizona. Could it be that they may have a plan or something up their sleeve? Or is it some wishful thinking on the Steelers part?...Either way you look at it, it seems strange! :noidea:

I have a feeling that if Haley does leave, they'd be very quick to ask Norv in for an interview. While it is strange, I'm wondering whether or not Tomlin was happy with the playcalling himself, regardless of what he said to the media. Behind closed doors, it'd be interesting to see what kind of relationship Tomlin had with Todd and if their ideology ever clashed.

GoFor7
01-03-2013, 03:55 PM
Or, what it might be the real reason behind the Cardinals interviewing Haley is that they probably want to bring him back as their offensive coordinator, under their next head coaching hire. They went to the Super Bowl with Haley as their OC, before he left for the head coaching job at Kansas City. Teams do that kind of stuff. The Steelers would not have granted them permission to talk to him, otherwise.

Umm...... no.

Danny136200
01-03-2013, 03:56 PM
8-8

No playoffs

One of the worst-ranked offenses in the league


Yeah, no thanks

One year in. Calm down people

stb_steeler
01-03-2013, 03:56 PM
I have a feeling that if Haley does leave, they'd be very quick to ask Norv in for an interview. While it is strange, I'm wondering whether or not Tomlin was happy with the playcalling himself, regardless of what he said to the media. Behind closed doors, it'd be interesting to see what kind of relationship Tomlin had with Todd and if their ideology ever clashed.

Well im thinking the same thing, if Tomlin has anything to do with it im sure it wont come out in the open till Haley's gone.

pczach
01-03-2013, 04:06 PM
I'm not the biggest fan of what Haley did this year, but to be honest, there's a lot of stuff going on in Pittsburgh. Between Rooney sticking his nose where it never belongs, Tomlin reacting to Mr. Rooney sticking his nose where it doesn't belong, and the crushing injuries and lack of talent at RB....I think Haley was trying to make everyone happy, and it didn't work with the available talent. I believe with a healthy OL and the young OL more experienced, his offense will most likely improve greatly next year. I don't blame everything on Haley. There are a lot of contributing factors. I'm interested to see what adjustments he will make to the scheme and finding a way to play to the strengths of his current WR.

teegre
01-03-2013, 04:16 PM
Do not think he will settle for another coordinator job. Plus he might cost a hell of alot more than what O. Coordinators usually get.

He has to "settle", because no team will hire him as a head coach (after failing twice).

pete74
01-03-2013, 04:23 PM
I can't see why the Cheifs are interviewing Haley when they want Reid as there coach unless Haley would be there OC

teegre
01-03-2013, 04:33 PM
Makes ya wonder why the Steelers are ok with Haley talkin to Arizona. Could it be that they may have a plan or something up their sleeve? Or is it some wishful thinking on the Steelers part?...Either way you look at it, it seems strange! :noidea:

The Steelers would never hinder a player from moving up in the world. They always grant their coordinators permission to talk to other teams about being a HC.

TANGENT: Which is why the writing is on the wall about Butler eventually taking over as the DC. He didn't interview for a few DC positions, and the Steelers don't usually step in the way... unless... Butler was promised something in Pittsburgh.

Just like Omar Khan will likely be the GM for the Steelers within the next couple of years. He easily could have left for a GM job elsewhere... but... chose to stay.

BACK TO HALEY: All of that said, that doesn't rule out some friction (behind closed doors) between Tomlin & Haley... but it also doesn't necessarily indicate that there is indeed friction.

GoFor7
01-03-2013, 05:12 PM
One year in. Calm down people

Whiz and Arians both got the team to the playoffs in their first years. No excuses.

desertsteel
01-03-2013, 05:16 PM
Whiz and Arians both got the team to the playoffs in their first years. No excuses.

Apples to Oranges. They were both head coaches. Haley was an OC. Not the same. At all.

GoFor7
01-03-2013, 05:18 PM
Apples to Oranges. They were both head coaches. Haley was an OC. Not the same. At all.

I'm talking about Whiz and Arians when they were the Steelers OC, not as head coaches. So yes, very much comparable.

steelcity1974
01-03-2013, 05:25 PM
Kirby would be a terrible choice. Our run game is terrible. Especially between the tackles. Any solid runs we got this year were because Dwyer had great second and third efforts. What makes anyone think he can run an offense based on how he ran our 20+ ranked run game?

NSMaster56
01-03-2013, 05:52 PM
Serious question:

If Haley (or whoever) becomes HC in AZ, does that mean Russ Grimm is a FA?

Who's PIT's OL Coach and how quickly could they be... 'moved'... to bring Grimm back???

mikegrimey
01-03-2013, 06:03 PM
^ you seen AZs o line play? They're worse than thesteelers

casteeler
01-03-2013, 06:05 PM
^ you seen AZs o line play? They're worse than thesteelers

Impossible:wink02:

NSMaster56
01-03-2013, 06:05 PM
^ you seen AZs o line play? They're worse than thesteelers

Touche, but...

Can you name an AZ OL? I can't.

I don't think Russ Grimm is the problem with their OL, I think the players and/or team is.

Cherinko
01-03-2013, 06:07 PM
If I was Haley, I'd get out of here ASAP. You know how some teams go through head coaches like candy? When every coach of Cleveland/Oakland fails, it aint the coach. This offense is destined for 20 ppg and fan rage regardless of who coordinates it. Maybe offer it up to some poor sucker just trying to get a foot in the industry..

Steelerindc
01-03-2013, 06:18 PM
I just don't know where all this talk of how good our offense looked before Ben got hurt. Besides the Raiders game we barely put 20 pts on the board.

I for one never like Haley, even when he was with Arizona. I know some of you might have forgotten but his offense in Arizona was horrible running the ball.

He did have a stud in KC with a hell of an offensive line.

As I said didn't like the choice of Haley but I was hoping he would bring that run offense that he had in KC to Pittsburgh and thus would open up the passing game.

But that's not the case, I don't know what he was trying to accomplish this year. It looked all over the place from week to week.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-03-2013, 06:25 PM
^ you seen AZs o line play? They're worse than thesteelers

you mean they give up as many sacks as when Grimm coached the Steelers O line??

tburhans
01-03-2013, 06:48 PM
If Haley leaves for Arizona we would most likely promote from within and i doubt it would be Kirby Wilson. If we promote from within i think it will be quarterbacks coach Randy Fichtner. I have heard over the years that Randy and Ben have a good relationship which is more than you can say about Haley already. And with Randy being on the staff for years im sure he knows what type of plays ben likes and dislikes and is well aware of our personnel which would allow him to install a successful offense. But this is all speculation until Haley is actually gone

Blackout
01-03-2013, 07:29 PM
There's no way Haley is leaving. Didn't he tell Tomlin his place was here in Pittsburgh?

Maybe that changes with an HC offer.

Norv and LeBeau would own, though.

GoFor7
01-03-2013, 07:32 PM
There's no way Haley is leaving. Didn't he tell Tomlin his place was here in Pittsburgh?

Maybe that changes with an HC offer.

Norv and LeBeau would own, though.

Before the Bengals game he said he had no plans to leave Pittsburgh. Would you expect a coordinator to say otherwise while his team was in a playoff hunt?

lloydwoodson
01-03-2013, 07:33 PM
First off... If we tried to run our offense like NE or Denver... Ben would have been killed and we'd probably be no better then a 6-10 team. You seriously think Ben could run the offense that Brady is running? What on earth makes you think Ben can carry an entire offense on his own w/ a NE style offense? What has he ever done to make you think that? If you say won SB's... you are crazy... because those SB rings were not won by Ben.. yea he's a good QB... but he's not Brady or Manning... People need to wake up and smell the coffee... Ben is not in the class of Brady or Manning... they are passers.. Ben is a gamer..hes' tough...he's resilient.... he's not even Brett Favre...(which some of you like to compare him with) To say Ben is like Brett favre is utterly ridiculous.

you cannot just ask Ben to use his arm to win games.. and NOT only because Ben isn't accurate enough or quick enough with his decision making... because our O-line is not good enough to run that offense. Our O-line did start to gel around mid season...and we started to look damn good. Then the injuries happened. Also in case you didn't notice Ben was given the key's to the offense when he returned from injury... he failed miserable. Maybe injuries were a part...but the other part was the cast around him wasn't capable either.

Haley's offense looked pretty damn good early in the season. We didn't score more points under Arians style offense of swing for the fences every time you get the ball. I understand the thinking by Arians actually... when you have a HR hitter like Ben... try to hit HR's.... the problem is NFL defenses can slow that down...and they did. Ben aired it out often but we didn't score points. The Rooney's believe in small ball... Haley believes in that philosophy.. Ben doesn't. Until Ben realizes who he really is.. we'll struggle... if he accepts the philosophy we will win playoff games. It works...especially when you have DL's defense to help.


This was perfectly stated. This is one of the most insightful comments I have read on this board. Pretty good for a drunkard. You summed it up beautifully.

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-03-2013, 07:40 PM
Whiz and Arians both got the team to the playoffs in their first years. No excuses.

Arians had a legit #1 RB that was leading the league in yards until he broke his leg late in the season. Other than that, 10-6 is about two plays separated from being 8-8, complete with our standard late-season collapse (that year to the Jags). We had an elite Oline that year, and despite all the complaints about the run, run, run offense Haley installed-- that is how you protect your QB. ben hjad his most efficient year with a descent running game backing him up (32 TDs and 7 INTs).

The Whiz inherited an already complete offense that just needed a franchise QB. Note, the success the Whiz enjoyed in the burgh was due to the fact he KEPT BEN IN CHECK AND DID NOT LET HIM RUN HIS SANDLOT THING. This pain point in their relationship was well known-- benji wanted more freedom but the mean ole Whiz would not let him have it.

Apples and oranges.

Haley was called in to fix a broken system that was racking in a record number of sacks each year and was already having problems protecting the Qb and opening running lanes consistently. He was asked to re-invent a whole new offensive system, whereas the WHiz and Arians both walked into ideal situations and just basically only had to add a few minor tweaks here and there to the existing system.

Give Haley the same Oline we had in 2007 or 2005, the same elite RB, and this conversation is not even happening.

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-03-2013, 07:43 PM
Plus, GOFOR7, throw in the fact that two of our losses this year can be laid completely at the foot of our 0 starting CBs against the Chargers and Cowboys, and Haley made the most of nothing.

You cannot blame the offensive coordinator for your defense throwing games, when his scheme is earning the league's 2nd highest ToP and keeping them fresh every game.

lloydwoodson
01-03-2013, 07:53 PM
I'm talking about Whiz and Arians when they were the Steelers OC, not as head coaches. So yes, very much comparable.

WHO WAS WHISENHUNT'S OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR WHEN THE CARDINALS WENT TO THE PLAYOFFS? I SWEAR YOU ARE THE DUMBEST SONUVABITCH ON PLANET EARTH!!!! HALEY AND WHISENHUNT JOINED THE CARDINALS AT THE SAME DAMN TIME!!!!! AND THEY WENT TO THE PLAYOFF IN YEAR 2!!!!!

In 2007, Haley joined Ken Whisenhunt's coaching staff for the Arizona Cardinals as the team's offensive coordinator. Haley did not start calling plays for the Cardinals until late in the season.[4] The Cardinals finished in the top half of the NFL in multiple offensive categories.

Under Haley’s guidance, the Cardinals offense in 2008 was one of the league’s most innovative and explosive units.[2] Arizona tied for third in the league in scoring, registering a franchise-record 427 points (26.7 ppg).[2] The Cardinals were fourth in total offense, averaging 365.8 yards per game.[2] Arizona was second in the league in passing offense (292.1 ypg) and ranked sixth in the NFL with 20.5 first downs per game.[2] The Cardinals finished the season with a 9-7 record and a playoff berth after winning the NFC West Division title. The Cardinals went on to appear in their first Super Bowl in franchise history after the team scored more than 30 points in each of its three playoff games.

lloydwoodson
01-03-2013, 08:30 PM
Ben refusing to get along with Haley started before the season did.

Many of you claimed that everyone was making a big deal out of Ben and Haley not having met. It is obvious Ben does not like Haley. He has criticized his offense several times to the media. I do not know how Haley feels about Ben because he has acted like a grown man and kept his opinions to himself.

Haley did not call the plays for the Cardinals until late in the 2007 season.

Haley called all the plays for the 2008 season. The Cardinals ended the season 3rd in scoring and 4th in yards.

2009 Haley becomes HC of the chiefs. Cardinals offense drops to 11th in scoring and 14th in yards with the same personnel.

2009 Chiefs show no improvement from the year before finishing 25th in offense.

2010 Chiefs show significant improvement finishing 14th in points and 12 in yards with Matt Cassel at Qb!!! 10-6 record and make the playoffs!!! With Matt Cassel!!!

Matt Cassel!!!!

Matt Cassel had a career year throwing 27 tds against 7 ints.

His previous best was in NE in 2008 throwing 21 tds and 11 ints. NE has the best coaching staff in the league I thought?

Cassel had a better year with Haley in KC in 2010 than he did in 2008 with the receivers Tom Brady beat records with throwing for 50 tds!!! How many tds would he have had if he didn't throw 11 tds to Randy Moss!!!

Cassel had a better year with the now 2-14 KC team (which was also 2-14 while Cassel was throwing for 21 tds with the best offensive team ever) than the 16-0 NE team.

2011 Crennel replaces Haley midway through the season one year removed from the playoffs winning 2 of their final 3 games to finish 7-9.

2012 One year removed from Haley the Chiefs finish 2-14 with the same personnel.

AND YOU EXPECT ME TO BELIEVE THAT HALEY IS THE PROBLEM?

NSMaster56
01-03-2013, 09:03 PM
I just don't know where all this talk of how good our offense looked before Ben got hurt. Besides the Raiders game we barely put 20 pts on the board.

Before the Week 10 game vs. KC the Steelers scored 21 or more points in eight of 10 games (19-27-31-16-23-24-27-24).

First eight games PPG AVG: 24 (191 total points)
***BEN INJURY***
Last eight games PPG AVG: 18 (145 total points---6 from the Timmons INT)

GoFor7
01-03-2013, 09:21 PM
Plus, GOFOR7, throw in the fact that two of our losses this year can be laid completely at the foot of our 0 starting CBs against the Chargers and Cowboys, and Haley made the most of nothing.

You cannot blame the offensive coordinator for your defense throwing games, when his scheme is earning the league's 2nd highest ToP and keeping them fresh every game.

The defense blew games in 2009 which prevented the Steelers from going to the playoffs, yet Arians was blamed for it. And that year the offense was actually putting up points sans the Thursday Night Cleveland game. Arians also had to deal with an atrocious o-line that had trouble staying healthy. Oh, and Arians offense also was also always in the top of the NFL in time of possession.

Considering all that, and considering the fact Arians still got crucified - no excuses for Haley.

As for Haley's work in Arizona, ownership didn't handcuff him because of outdated philosophies. They actually let him play to their strengths instead of tradition.

WHO WAS WHISENHUNT'S OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR WHEN THE CARDINALS WENT TO THE PLAYOFFS? I SWEAR YOU ARE THE DUMBEST SONUVABITCH ON PLANET EARTH!!!! HALEY AND WHISENHUNT JOINED THE CARDINALS AT THE SAME DAMN TIME!!!!! AND THEY WENT TO THE PLAYOFF IN YEAR 2!!!!!

Hope the mods are taking action on this.

Blackout
01-03-2013, 09:22 PM
lloydwoodson, that is a pretty good argument and thanks for bringing up the numbers.

So what do you believe is the solution here? That Ben needs to shut up and actually follow Haley's playbook?

You may have expounded on this elsewhere, but I am coming late to this discussion.

desertsteel
01-03-2013, 09:29 PM
I can't see why the Cheifs are interviewing Haley when they want Reid as there coach unless Haley would be there OC

Chiefs? Chiefs aren't interviewing Haley. He's already been fired by them lol. The Cardinals are interviewing Haley.

GoFor7
01-03-2013, 09:32 PM
Ben refusing to get along with Haley started before the season did.

Many of you claimed that everyone was making a big deal out of Ben and Haley not having met. It is obvious Ben does not like Haley. He has criticized his offense several times to the media. I do not know how Haley feels about Ben because he has acted like a grown man and kept his opinions to himself.

Haley did not call the plays for the Cardinals until late in the 2007 season.

Haley called all the plays for the 2008 season. The Cardinals ended the season 3rd in scoring and 4th in yards.

2009 Haley becomes HC of the chiefs. Cardinals offense drops to 11th in scoring and 14th in yards with the same personnel.

2009 Chiefs show no improvement from the year before finishing 25th in offense.

2010 Chiefs show significant improvement finishing 14th in points and 12 in yards with Matt Cassel at Qb!!! 10-6 record and make the playoffs!!! With Matt Cassel!!!

Matt Cassel!!!!

Matt Cassel had a career year throwing 27 tds against 7 ints.

His previous best was in NE in 2008 throwing 21 tds and 11 ints. NE has the best coaching staff in the league I thought?

Cassel had a better year with Haley in KC in 2010 than he did in 2008 with the receivers Tom Brady beat records with throwing for 50 tds!!! How many tds would he have had if he didn't throw 11 tds to Randy Moss!!!

Cassel had a better year with the now 2-14 KC team (which was also 2-14 while Cassel was throwing for 21 tds with the best offensive team ever) than the 16-0 NE team.

2011 Crennel replaces Haley midway through the season one year removed from the playoffs winning 2 of their final 3 games to finish 7-9.

2012 One year removed from Haley the Chiefs finish 2-14 with the same personnel.

AND YOU EXPECT ME TO BELIEVE THAT HALEY IS THE PROBLEM?

Well, if you're going to use stats - Ben had 26 TDs and 8 INTs in 13 games. 3 to 1 TD/INT ratio. Using stats as a basis, like you are, means Ben wasn't the problem.

lloydwoodson
01-03-2013, 09:38 PM
lloydwoodson, that is a pretty good argument and thanks for bringing up the numbers.

So what do you believe is the solution here? That Ben needs to shut up and actually follow Haley's playbook?

You may have expounded on this elsewhere, but I am coming late to this discussion.

I think Haley's playbook is perfectly fine. It was good enough to produce a historic 3 1000 yard receivers with the Cards (which wasn't duplicated after he left).

Haley would still be the HC of the Chiefs if Matt Cassel had not self-destructed in the 2010 playoffs and never recovered. Crennel got fired one year after he did. Cassel is still there.

The Steelers already have fixed the biggest problem with the Steelers when they drafted Mike Adams and David DeCastro last year. After 5 years of neglecting the OL they finally drafted one. When those guys play to their potential there will be a solid running game and a better and balanced offense.

The Steelers need to do what they always do and not freak out after one bad season like all the bad teams do. Keep Wallace for A Brown money or let him walk. Keep Mendenhall. Run the ball behind a young offensive line that is full of high draft picks and put Ben in 3rd and shorts.

lloydwoodson
01-03-2013, 09:42 PM
Well, if you're going to use stats - Ben had 26 TDs and 8 INTs in 13 games. 3 to 1 TD/INT ratio. Using stats as a basis, like you are, means Ben wasn't the problem.

Wow. I just showed how even Matt Cassel had success under Haley. More than he had running the Pats record setting offense of 2007. Cassel had more success under Haley than under Belichek.

"Well, if you're going to use stats - Matt Cassel had 27 TDs and 7 INTs. 3 to 1 TD/INT ratio. Using stats as a basis, like you are, means Matt Cassel wasn't the problem."

^^^ I changed your comment editing Ben's name and stats for Matt Cassel and his stats.

Would you stand before God and say that Matt Cassel is not the problem in Kansas City?

GoFor7
01-03-2013, 09:49 PM
Wow. I just showed how even Matt Cassel had success under Haley. More than he had running the Pats record setting offense of 2007. Cassel had more success under Haley than under Belichek.

"Well, if you're going to use stats - Matt Cassel had 27 TDs and 7 INTs. 3 to 1 TD/INT ratio. Using stats as a basis, like you are, means Matt Cassel wasn't the problem."

^^^ I changed your comment editing Ben's name and stats for Matt Cassel and his stats.

Would you stand before God and say that Matt Cassel is not the problem in Kansas City?

I would stand before God and say that those stats really don't tell you the entire story. I would also tell him much of the early season success was because of Ben's incredible third down conversion rate and not Haley's play calling. I would also tell him that Haley wasn't bossed around by those teams' ownerships as to what kind of offense he could run. I would tell him that both Whiz and Arians did better in their first years as OCs. I would also tell him that there are no excuses for Haley just as there were no excuses for Arians (who apparently still did better than Haley when shit happened).

fer522
01-03-2013, 09:53 PM
Wow. I just showed how even Matt Cassel had success under Haley. More than he had running the Pats record setting offense of 2007. Cassel had more success under Haley than under Belichek.

"Well, if you're going to use stats - Matt Cassel had 27 TDs and 7 INTs. 3 to 1 TD/INT ratio. Using stats as a basis, like you are, means Matt Cassel wasn't the problem."

^^^ I changed your comment editing Ben's name and stats for Matt Cassel and his stats.

Would you stand before God and say that Matt Cassel is not the problem in Kansas City?

I know what someone is gonna say but but but they wan Ben to win the games in the last 2 min. LMFAO :chuckle:

Somebody is getting burn bad!!:toofunny:

GoFor7
01-03-2013, 09:57 PM
I know what someone is gonna say but but but they wan Ben to win the games in the last 2 min. LMFAO :chuckle:

Somebody is getting burn bad!!:toofunny:

And some people can't read, or spell. :toofunny:

I mean, he says Ben stinks, but he also points to Ben's great stats. Which is it? And apparently since Ben isn't the problem this year, and Matt Cassel wasn't the problem for the Chiefs during his 27 TD season, that points to Haley - using his logic of course.

lloydwoodson
01-03-2013, 09:59 PM
I would stand before God and say that those stats really don't tell you the entire story. I would also tell him much of the early season success was because of Ben's incredible third down conversion rate and not Haley's play calling. I would also tell him that Haley wasn't bossed around by those teams' ownerships as to what kind of offense he could run. I would tell him that both Whiz and Arians did better in their first years as OCs. I would also tell him that there are no excuses for Haley just as there were no excuses for Arians (who apparently still did better than Haley when shit happened).

Did Ben call the plays on 3rd down and Haley call them on 1st and 2nd? Am I missing something?

Haley WAS bossed around as to what offense he could run by the HEAD COACH who controls those sort of things. Haley did not earn the privilege to call plays until late in his first year in Arizona. Haley WAS bossed around by Tomlin. TOP being the be-all and end-all comes from Tomlin. Period.

Haley did better this year than Arians did last year in scoring points and red zone %. That is what he was brought in to do. I could care less about Arians amazing 2007 season where Ben put up huge numbers in the regular season and got bounced out of the playoffs on the strength of 42 throws and a pick 6.

Steel Peon
01-03-2013, 09:59 PM
who do we replace him with?

I knew all the talk was going to be about Whisenhunt, but I'd just as soon stay with Haley.

fer522
01-03-2013, 10:03 PM
I don't know what the big deal is Ben sucked ass at the end of the year and the play calling may be wasn't as good as it was before Ben got hurt but that doesn't mean that we need to fire the OC or trade Ben hell even Arians got 5 years and he didn't have to changs shit

lloydwoodson
01-03-2013, 10:09 PM
And some people can't read, or spell. :toofunny:

I mean, he says Ben stinks, but he also points to Ben's great stats. Which is it? And apparently since Ben isn't the problem this year, and Matt Cassel wasn't the problem for the Chiefs during his 27 TD season, that points to Haley - using his logic of course.

Cassel had a great 2010 regular season... then he threw for 70 yards, 0 tds and 3 ints in the playoffs. My point is that individual stats don't matter and that quarterbacks do well as individuals in Haley's system. Cassel is arguably as good as Mark Sanchez and he had a ProBowl type season under Haley.

Meanwhile, 2 head coaches have been fired after taking responsibility for Cassel's poor play.

And in Chicago a HC with an all-time record of 81-63 has been fired after taking responsibility for Jay Cutler's poor play. He follows former superbowl winning coordinator Mike Martz who has been scapegoated for Jay Cutler and Alex Smith.

Fer is right I am burning you badly.

GoFor7
01-03-2013, 10:09 PM
Did Ben call the plays on 3rd down and Haley call them on 1st and 2nd? Am I missing something?

Did Haley avoid pressure and make the throws on 3rd and long, or did Ben?

Haley WAS bossed around as to what offense he could run by the HEAD COACH who controls those sort of things. Haley did not earn the privilege to call plays until late in his first year in Arizona. Haley WAS bossed around by Tomlin. TOP being the be-all and end-all comes from Tomlin. Period.

Tomlin is generally hands off when it comes to his coordinators - unless he's ordered from up top otherwise.

Haley did better this year than Arians did last year in scoring points and red zone %. That is what he was brought in to do. I could care less about Arians amazing 2007 season where Ben put up huge numbers in the regular season and got bounced out of the playoffs on the strength of 42 throws and a pick 6.

Well, last I checked, 10-6 division champs is better than 8-8 no playoffs, even if it was a disappointing loss to the Jagoffs.

So you don't care about past coordinators doing better, but you're okay with the current coordinator not improving the offense? That's actually not surprising from Pittsburgh. After all, fans seem to think more highly of the loser QBs the Steelers started than the two QBs that won them super bowls.

lloydwoodson
01-03-2013, 10:27 PM
Did Haley avoid pressure and make the throws on 3rd and long, or did Ben?

In 2005 Ben had one of the best offensive lines in football and made them look terrible with 35 sacks on 303 drop backs. 3 1st rd picks 1 2nd rd pick and 1 3rd rd pick

Peyton Manning made his mediocre line look great giving up only 20 sacks on 473 dropbacks. 1 1st rd pick 2 UDFA 1 4th rd pick 1 5th rd pick

Tomlin is generally hands off when it comes to his coordinators - unless he's ordered from up top otherwise.

When Tomlin came to Pittsburgh the cushions on receivers immediately grew. Tackle the catch is all Tomlin. The only reason the Steelers D has generated turnovers is because of Troy and Debo.

Well, last I checked, 10-6 division champs is better than 8-8 no playoffs, even if it was a disappointing loss to the Jagoffs.

Wild Card losses are nothing to be excited about. Steelers have missed the playoffs once under Whis, once under Arians and once under Haley. If Haley comes back it will not happen again.

So you don't care about past coordinators doing better, but you're okay with the current coordinator not improving the offense? That's actually not surprising from Pittsburgh. After all, fans seem to think more highly of the loser QBs the Steelers started than the two QBs that won them super bowls.

Which past coordinator is doing better? Arians put up a lot of yards in Indy but his team only scored 22 a game and his red zone % was less than the Steelers who started Batch/Lefty for 3 games. So Arians got a lot of yards but couldn't score- sounds familiar.

Whisenhunt just got fired- scapegoated for the play of his terrible quarterbacks- so he isn't doing any better.

FanSince72
01-04-2013, 07:23 AM
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/286864533102931968

Please God, let this happen.

I'll drive him to the interview!
Hell, I'll even pack a lunch for him!

BKAnthem
01-04-2013, 12:22 PM
Ilkin -Oline

Turner-OC

and we still have Lebau

Life would be good....

torpedoshell31
01-04-2013, 03:10 PM
Ilkin -Oline

Turner-OC

and we still have Lebau

Life would be good....

If we could get that staff, life would indeed be good.

tburhans
01-04-2013, 03:41 PM
Report on steelersdepot.com says qb coach randy fichtner would be the lead candidate if haley goes

austinfrench76
01-04-2013, 03:49 PM
I thought Kirby Wilson would be the lead candidate??? I read that on a Sulia posting. Someone mentioned that Wilson would have been the choice had he not been in that fire. I still don't understand peoples penchant for hating Haley already! Arians leaves and coaches a winning team, coached a rookie QB who had one of the most spectacular rookie seasons of all time and he was hated until he was gone. I get it, SOMETIMES. But man, it's only been a year and the guy hasn't even really implemented his offense yet. He hasn't really been part of our draft yet, so he hasn't had any input on players being selected. i just want to give him a minute before we cast him off. 3 OC's in 3 years=not good. I don't care who we would hire. The players would have to learn a whole new system, and we saw how much Ben LOVED that this year. I think we would be making a mistake to cast off Haley right now. Remember, before Ben got hurt, Ben was having an MVP type season. Why? Because our OC sucks. Wait, what??!! It makes no sense.

austinfrench76
01-04-2013, 03:54 PM
Sorry. Just read the article and they do mention Kirby.

TRH
01-04-2013, 04:16 PM
Fichtner was the choice of many even last year - even if Kirby didn't go through that fire. 50/50, it could be either one if Haley goes.
That said - Haley just has an interview - no guarantees yet he's gonna leave.

SteelersCanada
01-04-2013, 04:21 PM
Report on steelersdepot.com says qb coach randy fichtner would be the lead candidate if haley goes

No, that's who Dave wants in as his replacement. He wouldn't be the lead candidate for anything and if I'm being completely honest, probably wouldn't get the job over someone like Norv Turner. This is of course assuming Haley leaves, which I don't think he will. He likes being here and enjoys is job, but the call of former friends and being a head coach might be too great to pass up.

Time will tell, but I have a strong feeling that if Haley goes, it'll be Kirby or Norv. Pick your poison.

steelfury02
01-04-2013, 04:59 PM
Again. Overall record is not 100% due to the coordinator.

Can we stop slinging around records as if 1 guy alone is responsible? The assumption that a record is due to 1 guy has no validity. If this wasn't your intention - I ask that you stop throwing records around as an indication. There is much more to a record than an OC. I think the Steelers D would eat you alive if you gave Arians credit alone for the 12-4 record, #2 seed, AFC champ victory, and XLIII victory.

By the way, while we're at it - I'll point out that when the defense is having a bad day - generally the offense hasn't been able to carry the team on its shoulders. I remember plenty of close wins - never do I remember a consistent string of strong victories or blowouts BECAUSE OF THE OFFENSE. Also - this was in fact when Ben got to do more of what he wanted during the "Golden Arians years" Which - "he won a 2nd SB didn't he?" Yea - cause of his improv - not because his offense dominated - something that has been missing during Ben's entire tenure - but he is certainly bigger than wanting to become a student and score more often! Good for him! Sounds like a good reason to not be a good teammate, last to arrive, first to leave sorta guy as MANY of his teammates have indicated - POOR POOR QB habits in the film room - which translates to the field. Sandlot fooball would be pretty easy compared to what a true student would have to do to improve.

You can talk about past clutchness and completing 3rd and longs until youre blue in the face. I appreciate it - how many times do I have to type that? IT ISN'T ENOUGH TO SCORE CONSISTENTLY. Yes, If 3rd downs counted as points, Ben would be #1 in scoring the first half of the season. He and his brosephina Arians were masters of 80 yards - nothing more, nothing less.

Ben hasn't and cannot do it alone with his skill set - that's all there is to it. He needs his receivers and rbs and scheme like every great QB needed them.

"But see those other great QBs weren't handcuffed and they let the QB play to his and his weapons' strengths"

Where is there proof of handcuffing or no handcuffing? Who says handcuffing is wrong if your QB isn't capable of quickly reading defenses, getting the no-huddle snap off at any other time other than when the clock almost hits ZERO, going through his progressions and accepting that he actually has to get smaller chunks of yards or throw it a way to fight another day. Joe Montana looked pretty good with it - so does Brady.

But - Ben is above all that. Make me laugh buddy.

desertsteel
01-04-2013, 05:03 PM
By the way, while we're at it - I'll point out that when the defense is having a bad day - generally the offense hasn't been able to carry the team on its shoulders. I remember plenty of close wins - never do I remember a consistent string of strong victories or blowouts BECAUSE OF THE OFFENSE.


A blowout wouldn't be a day when the defense was having a bad day. That would be a high scoring, close win.

steelfury02
01-04-2013, 05:06 PM
A blowout wouldn't be a day when the defense was having a bad day. That would be a high scoring, close win.

yea, funny how the defense has to have a bad day for them to score a lot of points and still lose

The defense had a bad day. That is the norm - the defense carrying its load and occasionally having a bad game or a couple in a row. Meanwhile, the norm for the offense is "Can you believe Ben had 3 TD throws today! Holy cow!"

steelfury02
01-04-2013, 05:08 PM
A blowout wouldn't be a day when the defense was having a bad day. That would be a high scoring, close win.

Brady's teams have horrible defenses and yet they can win 40-27. That is still pretty close to a big victory.

Our Defense gives up 27 and we lose 27-24.

Blacksburg Zach
01-04-2013, 05:25 PM
yea, funny how the defense has to have a bad day for them to score a lot of points and still lose

The defense had a bad day. That is the norm - the defense carrying its load and occasionally having a bad game or a couple in a row. Meanwhile, the norm for the offense is "Can you believe Ben had 3 TD throws today! Holy cow!"

Yep, it's considered a good offensive day when Mr. Elite, top 5 quarterback Ben Roethlisberger throws for 3 touchdowns. On the other hand, for the P. Mannings, Bradys, Brees, and Rodgers of the world, throwing for three touchdowns is considered so routine that it's actually shocking to many people when they don't throw for at least three touchdowns. I think Roethlisberger is a good quarterback, but I don't think he is quite elite and certainly not in the same class as the other quarterbacks mentioned in this post.

GoFor7
01-04-2013, 10:20 PM
Yep, it's considered a good offensive day when Mr. Elite, top 5 quarterback Ben Roethlisberger throws for 3 touchdowns. On the other hand, for the P. Mannings, Bradys, Brees, and Rodgers of the world, throwing for three touchdowns is considered so routine that it's actually shocking to many people when they don't throw for at least three touchdowns. I think Roethlisberger is a good quarterback, but I don't think he is quite elite and certainly not in the same class as the other quarterbacks mentioned in this post.

He's not going to put up those kind of numbers if the Steelers continue to play close to the vest football. Not hard to understand.

lloydwoodson
01-04-2013, 11:34 PM
He's not going to put up those kind of numbers if the Steelers continue to play close to the vest football. Not hard to understand.

:coffee: Was Arians offense close to the vest?

GoFor7
01-04-2013, 11:51 PM
Again. Overall record is not 100% due to the coordinator.

Can we stop slinging around records as if 1 guy alone is responsible? The assumption that a record is due to 1 guy has no validity. If this wasn't your intention - I ask that you stop throwing records around as an indication. There is much more to a record than an OC. I think the Steelers D would eat you alive if you gave Arians credit alone for the 12-4 record, #2 seed, AFC champ victory, and XLIII victory.

Then don't make excuses for Haley that weren't excuses for Arians. Bad o-lines and injuries were common under Arians, yet it was never an excuse and the Steelers never did this poorly.

By the way, while we're at it - I'll point out that when the defense is having a bad day - generally the offense hasn't been able to carry the team on its shoulders. I remember plenty of close wins - never do I remember a consistent string of strong victories or blowouts BECAUSE OF THE OFFENSE. Also - this was in fact when Ben got to do more of what he wanted during the "Golden Arians years" Which - "he won a 2nd SB didn't he?" Yea - cause of his improv - not because his offense dominated - something that has been missing during Ben's entire tenure - but he is certainly bigger than wanting to become a student and score more often! Good for him! Sounds like a good reason to not be a good teammate, last to arrive, first to leave sorta guy as MANY of his teammates have indicated - POOR POOR QB habits in the film room - which translates to the field. Sandlot fooball would be pretty easy compared to what a true student would have to do to improve.

Ben had to improvise - his offensive line was shit.

You can talk about past clutchness and completing 3rd and longs until youre blue in the face. I appreciate it - how many times do I have to type that? IT ISN'T ENOUGH TO SCORE CONSISTENTLY. Yes, If 3rd downs counted as points, Ben would be #1 in scoring the first half of the season. He and his brosephina Arians were masters of 80 yards - nothing more, nothing less.

You're right, it isn't enough to score consistently - which has been my point all along. The Steelers offense played for possession this season, and that's a big reason why Ben was in so many third and longs because they were trying RUTMs and bubble screens that failed. They kept all 3 speedy receivers 5 to 10 yards from the LOS, hardly sending Wallace deep even as a decoy to stretch the field and keep the defense honest. Eventually defenses caught on to that. I keep typing it, but it keeps going in one ear and out the other. This offense is designed to play close to the vest.

hasn't and cannot do it alone with his skill set - that's all there is to it. He needs his receivers and rbs and scheme like every great QB needed them.

And it's a scheme that doesn't fit. It's a scheme that was rammed down his throat by a meddlesome owner.

"But see those other great QBs weren't handcuffed and they let the QB play to his and his weapons' strengths"

Where is there proof of handcuffing or no handcuffing? Who says handcuffing is wrong if your QB isn't capable of quickly reading defenses, getting the no-huddle snap off at any other time other than when the clock almost hits ZERO, going through his progressions and accepting that he actually has to get smaller chunks of yards or throw it a way to fight another day. Joe Montana looked pretty good with it - so does Brady.

You think waiting until the clock reads zero in no-huddle was Ben's choice? Wow. I'm laughing at you. :toofunny:

That's not on him, that's what the Steelers want. Because even the few times they used no-huddle they're still worrying about time of possession. When the Steelers have scored at the end of the half, Ben wasn't waiting until the play clock read zero to snap the ball.

The handcuffing is pretty obvious by the play calling. RUTM, bubble screens, and end-around in predictable fashion. Know why the Patriots and Broncos run the ball better than the Steelers? They aren't predictable. They don't stubbornly call running plays on first and second downs, thus putting Brady and Manning in fewer third and long situations. They also run out of no-huddle, which is why the Broncos out-rushed the Steelers in that opening game.

Look, just admit it. You're making excuses for Haley because it was Artie's hire. And the prime directive in Yinzer Nation is to make sure the Rooneys never look bad, especially when the star QB can be the villian.

lloydwoodson
01-05-2013, 01:13 AM
Ben had to improvise - his offensive line was shit.

Ben's offensive line is shit because Ben improvises. Brady is first in time from snap to throw, P Manning is 3rd and Ben is 18th.

And the prime directive in Yinzer Nation is to make sure the Rooneys never look bad, especially when the star QB can be the villian.

You absolve Ben of all his faults don't you? Ben doesn't need anyone but himself to appear the villain. No one is making him appear to be a villain or to make bad choice he does those things on his own.

Edman
01-05-2013, 01:14 AM
You say Art II is meddlesome like it's a bad thing.

The dude watches the team 24/7. I think he knows what product he's seeing.

And the product is a QB with a bit of a lazy streak and is not responsible enough to oversee an offense. Only eclipsed 30+ TD's once and keeps missing games due to reckless,irresponsible play. Throughout Ben's career, the Defense has continually outshined him and carried him through the postseason, and even the Super Bowl. The one Super Bowl the Defense had trouble in (XLV), the "Elite" QB couldn't be counted on to step up from his usual mediocrity, and the Steelers lost. Aside from ONE drive, Ben has been nothing short of AWFUL in the Super Bowl.

You say the Steelers play close to the vest? Well, what has Ben done to prove why they shouldn't? The Offense has been perpetually mediocre and inconsistent. One week the Steelers will kill a team 35-something, then next week they're locked in a 13-10 struggle against one of the league dregs. This especially happened under Arians. NO consistency whatsoever. Three Coordinators in eight years, the Steelers offensive production remains the same. There was only constant between them: Ben.

As for this 2005 run, some will say that's proof that Ben is elite, except not quite. While I agree that the run doesn't happen if the Steelers don't turn him loose, but back then the Steelers had a running game and were famed for running the ball under Cowher. The run game was RESPECTED. Teams were not ready or expecting Ben to throw the ball. Suppose if the Bengals, Colts, and Broncos WEREN'T expecting "run"? What would've happened then?

lloydwoodson
01-05-2013, 01:26 AM
Art II is the only thing keeping the Steelers in Rooney hands. Most of his siblings don't want anything to do with the team because they would rather make money off slot machines.

Art II presided over both of the last two super bowl teams.

Art II drafted the God you worship with every post and with breath you draw, Ben Roethlisberger.

Without Art II there is no Steeler way.

Without Art II the next Dan Snyder buys the team.

rgj
01-05-2013, 02:02 AM
I'm beginning to believe that the only OC Roethlisberger will be happy with is Ben Roethlisberger.

I think Haley did a respectable job this past season, until the wheels fell off due to OL and QB injuries. Then the RBs decided not to hold on to the ball and all hell broke loose, setting up the 2nd half disaster.

Ben needs to shut up and be the subordinate team player he is paid to be. Until then, the coaches need to coach and the players need to do the job or face unemployment.

Tomlin is at the cross roads. It is his team for now. I want to see what happens in camp in July.

jiminpa
01-05-2013, 07:22 AM
lol, if that were true - Ben would be an absolute fool - talk about taking a HUGE step back just to "have his way" Sounds like Joe Namath to the Rams to me LOLOLOLOLOLOL

My first gut is that isn't true.He is that dumb, and childish.

steelfury02
01-05-2013, 09:14 AM
10 out of the 12 playoff teams are in the top 14 in TOP. Their O ranking is in parenthesis, followed by their PPG. If you are wondering: 2. Pitt_32:11(22)_21

1. Houston_32:46(8)_26
4. Seattle_31:23(9)_25.8
6. Denver_31:16(2)_30.1
8. Washington_31:04(4)_27.3
9. San Fran_31:00(11)_24.8
10. Atlanta_30:52(7)_26.2
11. New England_30:40(1)_34.8
12. Indy_30:27(19)_22.3
13. Cincy_30:26(12)_24.4
14. Green Bay_30:26(5)_27.1
28. Minnesota_29:44(14)_23.7
30. Baltimore_29:34(10)_24.9

Where are the Colts at with overall offense ranking and point production out of these teams? I've heard enough of Arians over Haley. Yes - Arians has had to work with terrible O-lines as well - Haley, in 1 whole season, had to also deal with RBs and WRs fumbling and dropping. Arians is also responsible for not utilizing the running game enough and not even practicing it to give it a fair shake to take the pressure off of Ben. Ben needs the running game and/or TOP for the offense to succeed. I'll give you Haley haters and Ben apologists one or the other - you don't absolutely have to have both. You definitely need to be good at one or the other.

Playoff teams and where they rank with the rushing game. 6 out of 12 teams are in top 10 in rushing. The arguably best offense in the league (Pats) is #7 in rushing and #11 in TOP. I wouldn't call them "Marty Ball" Seems like rushing and TOP in whatever order you like, is pretty damn effective. Arguably the next best offense (Den) is still in the top half in rushing at #16 and ranks #6 at TOP. Again - I recognize there are teams with "elite" offenses that "don't need a running game" - these teams seem to be Green Bay at #20 in rushing and Atlanta at #29 in rushing. Green Bay is still at #14 in TOP. Atlanta is at #10.

The best offenses are either in the top half of TOP or top half of teams in rushing. THE best are in the top 10 of either of those categories.

Rushing rankings:
Washington(1)
Minnesota(2)
Seattle(3)
San Fran (4)
New England (7)
Houston (8)
Baltimore (11)
Denver (16)
Cincy (18)
Green Bay (20)
Indy (22)
Atlanta (29)

IMO - Ben needs a consistent running game and/or TOP. I realize the talent isn't there at the RB position, so what else did he need to rely on? TOP. AGAIN - I love what Ben brings to the table. Haley didn't ask that Mendy be injured and have to use a stable of what many consider fill-ins. All he could do was have the Steelers possess the ball, which, if you have the personnel to do it - leads to scoring as shown above.

Ben got injured and they couldn't get it going again in the OC's first season. I absolutely loved what I was seeing from Ben and company before the injury. The 10-6 v. 8-8 argument is a fine line - and the difference was Ben both in injury, and in the "70% Ben is better than 110% Charlie" situatin - Ben was our best chance to win - and in some critical situations he made some bad choices upon his return. that was the difference in the segment of the season. You can also point to records during Arians time here. 12-4 last year is great - but, you have to look at - where did you win those 12, how did you win them, and where did you lose those 4? It isn't as simple as spouting off an entire record as a true indicator.

The one constant is Ben - IMO he needs to get on board with both the running game, TOP or one or the other - what he wants is in fact not best.8-8 is a summation of an entire TEAM failure - not just Ben, not just Haley - but at different times during the season, or some personnel failed at different times.

teegre
01-05-2013, 10:28 AM
I remember in 2004, Bill Cowher was adamant about drafting Shawn Andrews. Dan Rooney walked into the draft room, and strongly suggested, "Why don't we take a closer look at this kid from Miami of Ohio."

Every took notice of his "meddling"... and drafted Ben Roethlisberger.

Suggesting that the team try to keep that same "100 million dollar QB" upright (via drafting TWO O-linemen, as well as, trying to improve his time of release) is a similar type of "meddling."

Edman
01-05-2013, 11:27 AM
Brady's teams have horrible defenses and yet they can win 40-27. That is still pretty close to a big victory.

Our Defense gives up 27 and we lose 27-24.

Steelers D hold an opposing team to 13 points, but supposed they give up a late score after leading 10-6 and end up losing the game 13-10. Ben fanboys will be quick to point fingers at the DEFENSE for losing the late lead, when the blame should be thrust upon the certain "Elite" Quarterback.

Speaking of the Defense, it's the other prime scapegoat for Ben's continual mediocrity, when blaming the OC or someone else doesn't work. The D didn't stop them enough! The D didn't generate turnovers! The D is the problem! The D didn't score!

Ah, so it's the Defense's fault Ben can't function without a short field? Ben has to have to go 60 yards or less to be effective? But I thought he was elite? I don't know what game you were watching, but the Defense's job is stopping the other team, which they have done a good job of after struggling this year. The OFFENSE's job is to SCORE.

The Cincinnati game was the microcosm of Ben's career. The Defense shines holding the Bengals offense to six points, but the Steelers lose anyway, because a certain "elite" quarterback hands them 7 and can't be bothered to do better then 10 points. Bam. Steelers are out of the playoffs. Unsurprisingly, here comes the Ben worshippers out of the woodwork to bash Haley for Ben playing like shit with the season on the line. No, this is not a Haley occurence. This is what Ben has been nearly doing his whole career and for a while now. He just came up on the short end this time.

It's all about the Defense in Pittsburgh. If the Steelers Defense sucks like the Patriots D has for the past couple years, no three Super Bowls appearances for Ben to suck in. If the Steelers D annually finished in the bottom half of the league since 2004, this team is still looking for #5.

steelfury02
01-05-2013, 11:51 AM
Steelers D hold an opposing team to 13 points, but supposed they give up a late score after leading 10-6 and end up losing the game 13-10. Ben fanboys will be quick to point fingers at the DEFENSE for losing the late lead, when the blame should be thrust upon the certain "Elite" Quarterback.

Speaking of the Defense, it's the other prime scapegoat for Ben's continual mediocrity, when blaming the OC or someone else doesn't work. The D didn't stop them enough! The D didn't generate turnovers! The D is the problem! The D didn't score!

Ah, so it's the Defense's fault Ben can't function without a short field? Ben has to have to go 60 yards or less to be effective? But I thought he was elite? I don't know what game you were watching, but the Defense's job is stopping the other team, which they have done a good job of after struggling this year. The OFFENSE's job is to SCORE. If the Defense hadn't gotten it together this year, this team finishes EVEN WORSE than 8-8.

The Cincinnati game was the microcosm of Ben's career. The Defense holds the Bengals offense to six points, but the Steelers lose anyway, because of a certain "elite" quarterback.

Your last paragraph is spot on. Ben could have and is capable of doing more.

I'd rather go to Canton and read: "His first two SB victories were earned with guts and grit, the last two were earned with deadly efficiency." Ben Roethlisberger, the only QB in NFL history to define his career at the QB position in two totally different ways. 4 Super Bowl Victories, 5 appearances. There was no other QB that could burn defenses with his smarts, and pull out miracles when the play broke down, and everything was on the line . . .

COME ON BEN.

Hawaii 5-0
01-05-2013, 12:12 PM
Todd Haley hasnít said yes to Cardinals interview

Posted by Josh Alper on January 4, 2013

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/300x-107.jpg?w=250

On Thursday, there was a report that the Cardinals requested permission to interview Todd Haley for their head coaching position.

The Steelers canít block Haley from taking the interview, but Haley can turn down the opportunity himself. According to Ed Werder of ESPN, Haley might wind up doing just that.

Per Werder, Haley has yet to agree to the interview because ďhe loves working forĒ the Steelers. It was a rocky first year for Haley in the role as he and quarterback Ben Roethlisberger never quite seemed to see eye to eye on the best way to run the offense.

Haley had a positive experience coordinating an offense run by Kurt Warner in Arizona before a somewhat less positive experience as the head coach of a Kansas City team quarterbacked by Matt Cassel. Given that, you can understand reticence about leaping into a muddled, to put it mildly, quarterback situation in Arizona even if things werenít all that smooth in Pittsburgh.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/04/todd-haley-hasnt-said-yes-to-cardinals-interview/

GoFor7
01-05-2013, 12:35 PM
Your last paragraph is spot on. Ben could have and is capable of doing more.

I'd rather go to Canton and read: "His first two SB victories were earned with guts and grit, the last two were earned with deadly efficiency." Ben Roethlisberger, the only QB in NFL history to define his career at the QB position in two totally different ways. 4 Super Bowl Victories, 5 appearances. There was no other QB that could burn defenses with his smarts, and pull out miracles when the play broke down, and everything was on the line . . .

COME ON BEN.

It should also read in Canton "Once the Steelers realized playing close to the vest didn't work, Ben won more games early."

I remember in 2004, Bill Cowher was adamant about drafting Shawn Andrews. Dan Rooney walked into the draft room, and strongly suggested, "Why don't we take a closer look at this kid from Miami of Ohio."

Every took notice of his "meddling"... and drafted Ben Roethlisberger.

Did Dan tell Cowher and Whiz how to run the offense? There's a difference between an owner getting involved when his team has stagnated for 25 years and when an owner think he should determine run/pass ratio.

steelfury02
01-05-2013, 01:09 PM
It should also read in Canton "Once the Steelers realized playing close to the vest didn't work, Ben won more games early."



Did Dan tell Cowher and Whiz how to run the offense? There's a difference between an owner getting involved when his team has stagnated for 25 years and when an owner think he should determine run/pass ratio.

Ben is limited to short intermediate game because his long ball is getting progressively worse since 2010. He used to be 40% (7th best) on 20 yards or longer, then went to 30% last year, when he was allowed to pass even more, and now he is down to 23 percent.

Why do you want to give him the keys to the car? What he wants doesn't work.

Edman
01-05-2013, 01:33 PM
Ben's O-Line is shit because he makes it shit.

This entire year is proof positive when Ben was getting rid of the ball quickly, as Haley directed him to, the O-Line was actually looking like a solid unit. You all remember this. We've all seen it. The famed Eagles Pass Rush couldn't lay a finger on Ben all day.

It wasn't until the mediocre Mike Wallace opened his useless trap that fans started whining for more Deep Ball that things went south. Ben defaulted back into old bad habits of holding the ball forever waiting for someone to get open deep. Oh look, suddenly the O-Line is looking like shit again. Time to fire Haley, fire Kugler and cut this guy and whoever and spend another draft pick on a lineman. It's not Ben's fault for his pure offensive incompetence, someone has to take the fall.

You could put Ben in front of the 80's Hogs in their prime and he'd make them look like shit.

GoFor7
01-05-2013, 01:36 PM
Ben is limited to short intermediate game because his long ball is getting progressively worse since 2010. He used to be 40% (7th best) on 20 yards or longer, then went to 30% last year, when he was allowed to pass even more, and now he is down to 23 percent.

Why do you want to give him the keys to the car? What he wants doesn't work.

It works better than what Artie wants.

Edman
01-05-2013, 01:43 PM
It works better than what Artie wants.

Artie called for better running in the 2010 season, the Steelers reached the Super Bowl.

Doing "What Ben wants" turned a 6-3 record into an 8-8 season in 2012.

Doing "What Ben wants" got the Steelers eliminated in a do-or-die season in Cincinnati.

Vis
01-05-2013, 01:49 PM
Only is what Ben wanted was a shoulder injury.

GoFor7
01-05-2013, 01:56 PM
Artie called for better running in the 2010 season, the Steelers reached the Super Bowl.

The defense blew the 2009 season by not protecting 4th quarter leads, not the offense. If you really think Ben played a small part in 2010...... then I totally understand based on the low intelligence level of your other posts.

Doing "What Ben wants" turned a 6-3 record into an 8-8 season in 2012.

2012 was nothing close to "Ben's way" - unless run, run, pass or run, bubble screen, pass is now "Ben's way."

Doing "What Ben wants" got the Steelers eliminated in a do-or-die season in Cincinnati.

No, playing close to the vest, scared football put them in a hole earlier in the season. You're just pissed Ben didn't bail the Steelers out from their own stubbornness. Guess what, he can't do it every time. Time for the Steelers to enter the new NFL. It's about scoring, not possession.

Blacksburg Zach
01-05-2013, 02:02 PM
Ben's O-Line is shit because he makes it shit.

This entire year is proof positive when Ben was getting rid of the ball quickly, as Haley directed him to, the O-Line was actually looking like a solid unit. You all remember this. We've all seen it. The famed Eagles Pass Rush couldn't lay a finger on Ben all day.

It wasn't until the mediocre Mike Wallace opened his useless trap that fans started whining for more Deep Ball that things went south. Ben defaulted back into old bad habits of holding the ball forever waiting for someone to get open deep. Oh look, suddenly the O-Line is looking like shit again. Time to fire Haley, fire Kugler and cut this guy and whoever and spend another draft pick on a lineman. It's not Ben's fault for his pure offensive incompetence, someone has to take the fall.

You could put Ben in front of the 80's Hogs in their prime and he'd make them look like shit.

You could put Ben behind a line consisting of Anthony Munoz, John Hannah, Mike Webster, Gene Upshaw, and Jonathon Ogden, and he would make them look like shit with how long he holds onto the ball.

steelfury02
01-05-2013, 04:54 PM
The defense blew the 2009 season by not protecting 4th quarter leads, not the offense. If you really think Ben played a small part in 2010...... then I totally understand based on the low intelligence level of your other posts.



2012 was nothing close to "Ben's way" - unless run, run, pass or run, bubble screen, pass is now "Ben's way."



No, playing close to the vest, scared football put them in a hole earlier in the season. You're just pissed Ben didn't bail the Steelers out from their own stubbornness. Guess what, he can't do it every time. Time for the Steelers to enter the new NFL. It's about scoring, not possession.

There's a reason none of the top offenses rely on what Ben wants to do. It's a nice thing to have - but shouldn't be what you base your offense off of.

pczach
01-05-2013, 07:45 PM
I can't believe how every post turns into a "Ben sucks" thread!

Kurt Warner has been used thousands of times as a comparison to Ben, especially since many here think he outplayed Ben in the Super Bowl. They also believe that Warner was a better qb than Ben ever will be by a long shot.

Why is it that Warner set the world on fire from his first snap with the Rams? They broke all kinds of scoring records with him at the helm. He also helped make the Cardinals an explosive offense, making them one of the highest scoring teams in the league. He is universally praised as a great quarterback, as a very accurate thrower of the football, and being great in big games. The numbers don't lie right?

How is it that Warner can be this awesome, with incredible stats with the Rams and the Cardinals, yet with the Giants looked as horrible and pedestrian as any qb has ever looked?

I believe Kurt Warner is the ultimate example of what a qb can do when surrounded by outstanding offensive talent. With the Rams, he took over an offense that was already dominant with Trent Green running the show. He had Isaac Bruce, Tory Holt, and Marshall Faulk. With the Cardinals, he had Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin to throw to, and an emerging running game that really came to life late in the year of thier super bowl run.

Warner did exactly diddly shit with the Giants. There was no high flying, greatest show on turf going on in NY. He was a complete disaster. He was still every bit the qb he was in St Louis, he just couldn't do anything when he didn't have weapons to make his job easy. He was playing for a team that wanted to run first, control the ball and the clock, and have the Qb make key throws on third down. Sound familiar? Go back and watch the super bowl against the Steelers. Look at the TD catches in that game for Warner. His first couple probably shouldn't have been thrown. They had defenders all over them, and just out-wrestled the defenders to make the catches. The third was an 8 yard crossing route to Fitzgerald who turned upfield and ran the distance through a wide open center field. The weapons you have on offense and the style of offense you run have a HUGE impact on the stats your Qb puts up. Anybody who knows anything about football understands this is an indisputable truth.

If Ben had Megatron, Larry Fitzgerald, AJ Green, or dominant big WR, it would completely transform this offense. Provided, of course, that the coaching staff embraced the strength of its' talent and featured the passing game while improving the running game a bit. Tell me I'm wrong.

VictoryFormation
01-05-2013, 07:58 PM
We might be stuck with Haley.

Pittsburgh Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley has not yet agreed to interview for the Arizona Cardinals' head-coaching position because he wants to determine their level of interest and avoid putting his current job in jeopardy, according to sources familiar with Haley's thought process.

This is an excerpt from an ESPN interview. If the Cardinals aren't really interested in Haley as a head coach, they might just want to interview him as a candidate for their offensive coordinator position under somebody else. If that's the case, he wants to stay with the Steelers.

lardlad
01-05-2013, 09:00 PM
There's a reason none of the top offenses rely on what Ben wants to do. It's a nice thing to have - but shouldn't be what you base your offense off of.

This is exactly it. His rare skills should be an asset no a mainstay of the offensive plan. I was so sick of pulling one off by the skin of our teeth on every single stinkin play. That went away, playing 'handcuffed' and 'close to the vest' we beat the Pats. Then it came back again and we went back to winging it on every frikkin play. It went away this year again early in the season. The defense sucked then and we lost a few games, but still looked good. Second half of the season get back to wingin it on offense and swinging at the damn fences when we had someone open for a first down. I have absolutely no trouble at all swinging at the fences as long as we get some home runs. Right now, we need to just get on base because long ball ain't there.

lardlad
01-05-2013, 09:05 PM
It works better than what Artie wants.

Yeah you are right. The organization kept him despite his shenanigans off the field, and are now intentionally losing games to prove a point. Weather anyone wants to admit it, they are doing what's best for the team and even Ben himself.

I think the Rooneys know how to run a football team, there aren't many better.

Edman
01-05-2013, 09:50 PM
We might be stuck with Haley.

Sounds good to me.

NSMaster56
01-05-2013, 10:45 PM
Ben got injured and they couldn't get it going again in the OC's first season. I absolutely loved what I was seeing from Ben and company before the injury.

Your post was great and not to cherry pick or anything, but I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on his injury history.

Does anyone else think that Ben may be like old Dan Marino: a lock to miss 2-4+ games a year?

If that is the case, then building an offense around a scheme and not a player (Ben) would make the most sense, right?

teegre
01-05-2013, 10:48 PM
Your post was great and not to cherry pick or anything, but I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on his injury history.

Does anyone else think that Ben may be like old Dan Marino: a lock to miss 2-4+ games a year?

If that is the case, then building an offense around a scheme and not a player (Ben) would make the most sense, right?

Hmmm... I had never considered that.

I'm not sure that I agree, but that is an excellent point for discussion.

steelfury02
01-06-2013, 07:14 AM
Your post was great and not to cherry pick or anything, but I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on his injury history.

Does anyone else think that Ben may be like old Dan Marino: a lock to miss 2-4+ games a year?

If that is the case, then building an offense around a scheme and not a player (Ben) would make the most sense, right?

thanks - I see what you are getting at - it sounds like most teams don't give their 2nd stringer hardly any reps, if any at all, unless they know their main man isn't going to be playing.

I think the Steelers are in a special circumstance with Ben - and, I'm guessing he'll miss 2-4 games next season as well. Personally I think Charlie should stay as #2 next season, getting 1-2 series each practice, however, these reps would be tailored to what they would do with Charlie in there (Plan B). IMO Charlie has earned the right to be #2, and for me - earned the right to get a series each practice and I think Tomlin even agreed with this sentiment at the end of the season. A practiced Charlie is a valiant fill-in.

I'd also look for someone else we haven't had yet as #3 to hold the clipboard with Charlie. I love Byron and he makes a great teammate - but just made of glass. If you think Charlie should absolutely be done - let me know - good discussion there. Or, if you think he should be the #3 guy.:thumbsup:

Kanata-Steeler
01-06-2013, 07:58 AM
This was Haleys first season with Steelers', I'll give him that, but if Haley leaves, I hope we secure Whiz, - slim-chance as that may be.

BKAnthem
01-06-2013, 09:13 AM
As long as it's not Kirby Wilson...I don't see anything in his history that lends to being a good Offensive coordinator, We are to close to another SB i believe to start experimenting now...

plenewken
01-06-2013, 09:52 AM
Speaking of injuries, anyone here wonders if our (crappy) natural grass surface might be a factor?

Hawaii 5-0
01-06-2013, 11:42 AM
This was Haleys first season with Steelers', I'll give him that, but if Haley leaves, I hope we secure Whiz, - slim-chance as that may be.

Ben doesn't like Whiz either...

austinfrench76
01-06-2013, 01:45 PM
Whiz would not come back. Bouchette wrote about this the other day. Bouchette aside, Whiz would not want to come back and Ben wouldn't want him back. Haley will be fine. I will continue and try and be a voice of reason. I will eat my words of the Steelers suck next year but we ahve to give him a real chance.

jiminpa
01-06-2013, 03:05 PM
Speaking of injuries, anyone here wonders if our (crappy) natural grass surface might be a factor?
Absolutely! Lateral muscle tears are often caused by "sticking a cleat," and turning or being turned by contact. Something has to give. On artificial turf it's the friction between the shoe and the surface that gives, on grass it's the knee or ankle that gives. I don't understand how with all of these years of practical experience with Astroturf they can't find a way to put a safe surface under it, unless they just want all of the leg injuries. That does seem to be Goodell's goal.

Back on topic: Whiz just may be the best OC in the league, and I don't care how much any one player doesn't like him, that's not something you just pass on if you have a choice. "Just deliver the ball, Meat" comes to mind. Ben gets paid to get the ball into someone else's hands, not to think. He doesn't do the latter very well, and really should stop trying, it gets him hurt. He would be a very good QB and the offense might actually be a genuine contributor to the team if he stayed within his skillset, rather than it being a gamebreaker if the defense gives up 17 points.

lloydwoodson
01-06-2013, 04:08 PM
Todd Haley took a 2-14 KC team to the playoff in 2 years. Haley got fired one year after the Chiefs made the playoffs and the team went 2-14. They were outscored by over 200 points this season.

If Matt Cassel had not imploded to end 2010 then Haley would still be an NFL HC; the Chiefs would be 2nd in the AFC West and a possible wild card; we wouldn't be having this conversation- it would be some other OC who was the problem and needs to be replaced.

Steelers>NFL
01-07-2013, 07:23 AM
Ben doesn't like Whiz either...

Can not blame Ben. Because Whiz did not coddle Ben like BA did.:binky:

steelbelieve
01-07-2013, 07:51 AM
I can't believe how every post turns into a "Ben sucks" thread!

Kurt Warner has been used thousands of times as a comparison to Ben, especially since many here think he outplayed Ben in the Super Bowl. They also believe that Warner was a better qb than Ben ever will be by a long shot.

Why is it that Warner set the world on fire from his first snap with the Rams? They broke all kinds of scoring records with him at the helm. He also helped make the Cardinals an explosive offense, making them one of the highest scoring teams in the league. He is universally praised as a great quarterback, as a very accurate thrower of the football, and being great in big games. The numbers don't lie right?

How is it that Warner can be this awesome, with incredible stats with the Rams and the Cardinals, yet with the Giants looked as horrible and pedestrian as any qb has ever looked?

I believe Kurt Warner is the ultimate example of what a qb can do when surrounded by outstanding offensive talent. With the Rams, he took over an offense that was already dominant with Trent Green running the show. He had Isaac Bruce, Tory Holt, and Marshall Faulk. With the Cardinals, he had Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin to throw to, and an emerging running game that really came to life late in the year of thier super bowl run.

Warner did exactly diddly shit with the Giants. There was no high flying, greatest show on turf going on in NY. He was a complete disaster. He was still every bit the qb he was in St Louis, he just couldn't do anything when he didn't have weapons to make his job easy. He was playing for a team that wanted to run first, control the ball and the clock, and have the Qb make key throws on third down. Sound familiar? Go back and watch the super bowl against the Steelers. Look at the TD catches in that game for Warner. His first couple probably shouldn't have been thrown. They had defenders all over them, and just out-wrestled the defenders to make the catches. The third was an 8 yard crossing route to Fitzgerald who turned upfield and ran the distance through a wide open center field. The weapons you have on offense and the style of offense you run have a HUGE impact on the stats your Qb puts up. Anybody who knows anything about football understands this is an indisputable truth.

If Ben had Megatron, Larry Fitzgerald, AJ Green, or dominant big WR, it would completely transform this offense. Provided, of course, that the coaching staff embraced the strength of its' talent and featured the passing game while improving the running game a bit. Tell me I'm wrong.




Good points above Warner. I agree. However, the solution to the offense isn't by finding another AJ Green, it's finding another Marshall Faulk or other elite back who can help the Steelers maintain a more balanced attack. Dwyer and Redman are fine, but we need the elite back. They swung and missed with Mendy. It's time to move on and find "the" guy. With the addition of a better, faster inside backer to replace Foote and upgrade the overall speed on defense, the Steelers will roll next year. Big if's though I admit.

StainlessStill
01-07-2013, 09:15 AM
Whiz would not come back. Bouchette wrote about this the other day. Bouchette aside, Whiz would not want to come back and Ben wouldn't want him back. Haley will be fine. I will continue and try and be a voice of reason. I will eat my words of the Steelers suck next year but we ahve to give him a real chance.

Chalk me up as being apart of this crowd. I think I'm one of the few that actually believe Haley's offense could work and work WONDERS. The Steelers fanbase sometimes go off of knee jerk reactions and don't understand the big picture. Seriously, the amount of injuries that piled up, we had no damn chance. I believe we were a few adjustments away and we were stranded because we didn't know which ones were causing the problem. One full off-season and a few little adjustments will fix it. Mark my words.

steelfury02
01-07-2013, 10:15 AM
Chalk me up as being apart of this crowd. I think I'm one of the few that actually believe Haley's offense could work and work WONDERS. The Steelers fanbase sometimes go off of knee jerk reactions and don't understand the big picture. Seriously, the amount of injuries that piled up, we had no damn chance. I believe we were a few adjustments away and we were stranded because we didn't know which ones were causing the problem. One full off-season and a few little adjustments will fix it. Mark my words.

I'll take a verbal lashing if we suck again as an offense, without the injuries. If we sustain the same amount of injuries again - there is something outside of Karma that is seriously wrong with how Steelers players are either conditioned, or how certain techniques or lack of commitment to them are increasing the chances of injury - something along those lines - I cannot stand yet another season of an injury plagued team - injuries are a big part of any NFL season anymore - but, seems like we are having huge playmakers and contributers out everywhere for the last few seasons now.

lloydwoodson
01-07-2013, 11:12 AM
How is it that Warner can be this awesome, with incredible stats with the Rams and the Cardinals, yet with the Giants looked as horrible and pedestrian as any qb has ever looked?



Warner's time with the Giants was a short 9 game stretch of his career. Warner got benched for going 5-4 with a 4-12 team. The Giants finished 1-6 after they benched Warner.

When Warner left Arizona in 2009 Arizona went from 10-6 to 5-11- their offense dropped to 31st in the league.

Warner is the 4th rated postseason passer all-time (31 TDs 14 INTs 103.8 RTG); 2-time NFL MVP; Superbowl MVP; and 2-time Man of the Year Award winner.

steelfury02
01-07-2013, 11:16 AM
Warner's time with the Giants was a short 9 game stretch of his career. Warner got benched for going 5-4 with a 4-12 team. The Giants finished 1-6 after they benched Warner.

When Warner left Arizona in 2009 Arizona went from 10-6 to 5-11- their offense dropped to 31st in the league.

Warner is the 4th rated postseason passer all-time (31 TDs 14 INTs 103.8 RTG); 2-time NFL MVP; Superbowl MVP; and 2-time Man of the Year Award winner.

I absolutely loved what Warner brought to the table, and, especially after he got wrongfully shit on by the Rams and Giants.

The guy would have 2 rings with the Rams if they wouldn't have dumped him for their "wonder boy" Marc Bulger - no patience whatsoever. Warner with Steven Jackson? I'd take that!

VictoryFormation
01-07-2013, 09:43 PM
Speaking of injuries, anyone here wonders if our (crappy) natural grass surface might be a factor?

The Steelers would play better on Field Turf, and avoid many of the injuries.

Heinz Field is ridicules. It was a downgrade from Three River Stadium. For a mere $71,000,000 more, the people of Pittsburgh could have enjoyed a nice, domed Stadium like Reliant Park, in Houston. Instead, we have the mistake by the river, with its sod field, open end, and mustard yellow seats. Heck, if we had a dome, we could of hosted yet another college bowl game here, The Heinz Pickle, Steel City Bowl.

lloydwoodson
01-07-2013, 10:36 PM
I absolutely loved what Warner brought to the table, and, especially after he got wrongfully shit on by the Rams and Giants.

The guy would have 2 rings with the Rams if they wouldn't have dumped him for their "wonder boy" Marc Bulger - no patience whatsoever. Warner with Steven Jackson? I'd take that!

I can understand the Giants choosing to go with their 1st round pick after their offense had struggled.

The Rams chose to go with 6th rounder Marc Bulger - who played average in the StL offense.

Warner has been overlooked his whole career though.

Nice that the Warner hater gave credit to the long gain from the slant pattern in SB XLIII. That was a great call by Todd Haley exploiting an opening he saw in the middle of the field on a slant to Breaston early in the game and later the same play to Fitz in the 4th. The guy calls what he has success doing- he is very adaptive.

Edman
01-08-2013, 07:50 AM
Ben had 35.5 pass attempts per game in 2012. Peyton Manning? 36.9 attempts. I guess that extra 1.4 means something. Not good enough? Check this out.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/pass-attempts-per-game

Pittsburgh as a team had 35.9 pass attempts on average per game in 2012. 12th in the league. This is in this tired old "Cowherball" Offense that does nothing but run. Going back to Denver, they were only 10th in the league. I guess the Broncos are handcuffing Manning. How about Green Bay and Aaron Rodgers? 17th in the league. Hey, they should let A-Rod throw the ball more. He's ELITE. The Packers are playing too close to the vest! Rodgers is SUFFERING in the Packers Offense.

What's that? Rodgers has thrown 39 TD's this year? The Packers are in the postseason and still fighting? That's hogwash.

steelfury02
01-08-2013, 07:56 AM
I can understand the Giants choosing to go with their 1st round pick after their offense had struggled.

The Rams chose to go with 6th rounder Marc Bulger - who played average in the StL offense.

Warner has been overlooked his whole career though.

Nice that the Warner hater gave credit to the long gain from the slant pattern in SB XLIII. That was a great call by Todd Haley exploiting an opening he saw in the middle of the field on a slant to Breaston early in the game and later the same play to Fitz in the 4th. The guy calls what he has success doing- he is very adaptive.

I certainly understand some frustration at some of the series he has called this season - I certainly was asking why we don't try and switch it up and pass on 1st and/or 2nd instead of waiting for 3rd on occassion - however, a handful of series doesn't make an OC or a season - I'm still waiting to hear some good ideas from the Haley haters on who they would rather have that is realistically coming here. Norv Turner, who I think has very little chance of coming here, has a better chance than Whiz or Arians showing up again - which will never happen. I keep hearing how they want to get rid of Haley with no valid backup plan.

Who do you want then? I'm still waiting to hear a REAL option from the Haley haters.

wwhickok
01-08-2013, 11:54 AM
At OC? Promote within. Give Kirby Wilson the job. Our Running game was terrible, perhaps with a "running oc' that can change.

pczach
01-08-2013, 05:50 PM
Warner's time with the Giants was a short 9 game stretch of his career. Warner got benched for going 5-4 with a 4-12 team. The Giants finished 1-6 after they benched Warner.

When Warner left Arizona in 2009 Arizona went from 10-6 to 5-11- their offense dropped to 31st in the league.

Warner is the 4th rated postseason passer all-time (31 TDs 14 INTs 103.8 RTG); 2-time NFL MVP; Superbowl MVP; and 2-time Man of the Year Award winner.

That's great.But again, what did he do in NY with a run first offense? Here are his career stats.

http://www.nfl.com/player/kurtwarner/2503540/careerstats

In 10 games he had 6 td 4 int, and he took 39 sacks in only 277 attempts. Scroll down to the bottom of the link to see all the fumbles he had, which included 12 in 10 games for the Giants.

By the way, what does it matter what his record is or what the talent was like around him? When talking about great quarterbacks you say "they do what they do", which is score points. He did none of that with the Giants, in a run-first, ball control offense. If he was as great as you claim, none of that would matter and he would have rung up huge numbers regardless of the weapons he had....right?

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-08-2013, 05:57 PM
Not sure why the Warner comparisons, I guess some are saying Haley revived his career or something. Remember that in NY, Kurt warner was coming of some kind of hand or thumb injury to his throwing hand. If anybody watched him those years....the ball was not coming out of his hand well.

If they wanted Haley, I think the deal would be done by now, but not sure. I think he will be back for another season in B&G

teegre
01-08-2013, 06:01 PM
Not sure why the Warner comparisons, I guess some are saying Haley revived his career or something. Remember that in NY, Kurt warner was coming of some kind of hand or thumb injury to his throwing hand. If anybody watched him those years....the ball was not coming out of his hand well.


Literally, it was falling out of his hand (he was fumbling attempted-passes, because he could not grip the ball).

pczach
01-08-2013, 06:12 PM
Not sure why the Warner comparisons, I guess some are saying Haley revived his career or something. Remember that in NY, Kurt warner was coming of some kind of hand or thumb injury to his throwing hand. If anybody watched him those years....the ball was not coming out of his hand well.

If they wanted Haley, I think the deal would be done by now, but not sure. I think he will be back for another season in B&G

Many here use Warner as an example of a great qb when comparing him to Ben. Remember, Ben has played with a broken thumb and tons of other serious injuries. In the super bowl against Green Bay, Ben had a broken foot, a sprained knee, and I believe a hand injury. He gets no slack from many unappreciative fans. I claim that the offense you play in and the weapons you have around you and to throw to have alot to do with the pure stats a qb puts up. Again, read my post on Warner. Great when surrounded by great playing in a wide open offense. Horrible when surrounded by average talent in a more consevative offense like Ben's.

pczach
01-08-2013, 06:26 PM
Literally, it was falling out of his hand (he was fumbling attempted-passes, because he could not grip the ball).

Warner has a history of fumbling. He has 102 fumbles in 12 seasons. Ben has 60 fumbles in 9 seasons.

vasteeler
01-08-2013, 06:40 PM
i seem to be in the minority, i hope haley stays. before ben got injured they were doing pretty well

pete74
01-08-2013, 06:57 PM
I'm with you. I hope Haley stays as well. We thrive because we stay consistent and don't change. We can't just toss him out because Brown had some key fumbles and Ben thru to many picks playing hurt. I think Haley will improve and lead us back to the super bowl.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-08-2013, 08:31 PM
I'm with you. I hope Haley stays as well. We thrive because we stay consistent and don't change. We can't just toss him out because Brown had some key fumbles and Ben thru to many picks playing hurt. I think Haley will improve and lead us back to the super bowl.

Yeah, key drops by Brown in Oakland and Dallas were turning points in those games.

The loss to the Browns when Batch has a 38.5 QB rating is another that good teams come thru with wins. Kids like Colin Kaperneck and Nick Foles probably win games like that, but the Steelers like experienced bums as backup QB's instead.

lloydwoodson
01-08-2013, 11:14 PM
Yeah, key drops by Brown in Oakland and Dallas were turning points in those games.

The loss to the Browns when Batch has a 38.5 QB rating is another that good teams come thru with wins. Kids like Colin Kaperneck and Nick Foles probably win games like that, but the Steelers like experienced bums as backup QB's instead.

Charlie Batch was 1-1 as a starter. I wouldn't put this season on him that is pretty good for a 3rd string qb. I personally want Batch to stay for one more year and find a solid rookie qb for him to groom. I don't think Ben is the type of guy who would help a young qb get better.

Leftwich broke his own rib by falling down. It is comical to keep a guy that injury prone on a roster that has been injury plagued and there are better options beside.

wwhickok
01-09-2013, 06:12 AM
I really dont want to see Batch stay. It's time to get younger at all positions of age.

TRH
01-09-2013, 07:29 AM
back on topic?

So, did he have his interview yet, i haven't checked. And if so, wonder how it went?

wwhickok
01-09-2013, 07:34 AM
He hasn't interviewed yet he is waiting to see if Arizona is serious about hiring him. He doesnt want to leave Pitt if theyre not serious.

steelfury02
01-09-2013, 07:40 AM
If I'm Haley, I'd rather stay in Pittsburgh, regardless if the QB likes me or not - things were seeming hunky dory enough when they were 5-3 going into KC

wwhickok
01-09-2013, 07:52 AM
The biggest thing that has to change offensively is our running attack, or thr non-existence of it. Well actually the predictability of our run-run-pass offense

BKAnthem
01-09-2013, 11:46 AM
For starters, I hope Haley stays. I think its a good long-term fit for him here - and would hate to see him take a job like that somewhere else, only to be fired after 2 years - when he knows he has a great position here. The grass isn't always greener.
I thought Reid would get that job, but today its looking like he's very close to a deal with KC.

As for Turner, no. Our FO won't even talk to him. We would likely, almost surely, promote Kirby Wilson.

I don't know why the hell Wilson would get promoted over not even giving Turner a call...nothing in Wilson's resume says capable OC

stiller39
01-09-2013, 11:59 AM
Bring back Arians....we win with him as did the Colts...

SteelersCanada
01-09-2013, 12:38 PM
Steelers OC Todd Haley won't interview with Cardinals

The title now is...

Is Todd Haley interviewing with Arizona Cardinals?


By Marc Sessler
Around the League Writer
Published: Jan. 9, 2013 at 12:48 p.m.
Updated: Jan. 9, 2013 at 01:20 p.m.

*Updated*

Where in the world is Todd Haley? With the Arizona Cardinals looking for their next head coach, we have conflicting reports on the whereabouts of the Pittsburgh Steelers offensive coordinator.

Citing a source close to Haley, NFL.com's Ian Rapoport first reported Wednesday that he won't interview with the Cardinals after he requested permission for an interview.

"He loves (the) Steelers job," the source said. "He's very happy."

Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette later reported that Haley was, in fact, in Arizona on Wednesday to meet with Cardinals brass, but it was Haley's agent who told Rapoport "no interview" was taking place.

Steelers assistants have since told Rapoport they believe he's interviewing with Arizona. The agent denies this. The Cardinals, meanwhile, declined comment.

Another source with knowledge of Haley's thinking told Rapoport the coach wouldn't interview with teams unless it's clear he has a "very real" chance of winning the job. Haley -- who isn't exactly on sure-footing in Pittsburgh -- believes the Cardinals already know him well from his two-year run as coordinator in Arizona from 2008 to 2009.

Steelers fans are still making up their minds about Todd Haley, but the team's offensive coordinator is certain about Pittsburgh.

Haley has unfinished business in Pittsburgh. A perennial playoff team under former coordinator Bruce Arians, the Steelers sunk to 21st in offense in 2012 and missed the postseason for the first time since 2009.

From Haley's first moments in town, whispers of discord with starting quarterback Ben Roethlisberger dominated. The coach and his star passer swatted most of those reports down, but Big Ben was never at ease in Haley's scheme. His numbers were strong, but Roethlisberger is a player used to calling many of his own plays and leaning on creativity in the no-huddle.

We didn't see much of that in Pittsburgh this season, and Haley might be determined to return and show he can do the job as well the guy before him.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000124128/article/steelers-oc-todd-haley-wont-interview-with-cardinals?campaign=Twitter_atl

So, I don't know what the hell is going on. This is turning into a clusterfuck.

Vis
01-09-2013, 12:43 PM
And yet:


Report: Todd Haley interviewing with Cardinals today
Posted by Michael David Smith on January 9, 2013, 1:36 PM EST
Todd Haley AP

Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley is reportedly interviewing with the Cardinals today for their head-coaching vacancy.

Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports that Haley is in Arizona today for the Cardinals interview. That news comes as something of a surprise, because there have been multiple reports that Haley was happy to stay in Pittsburgh and wasn’t looking to leave. In fact, agent Jerome Stanley told Ian Rapoport of NFL Network that Haley is not interviewing.

The Cardinals have neither confirmed nor denied that Haley is a candidate for their head-coaching vacancy.

The 45-year-old Haley was well regarded during his previous stint with the Cardinals, as their offensive coordinator in 2007 and 2008. In fact, he was so well regarded that he parlayed his work there into a head-coaching stint with the Chiefs. That, however, did not go well and he was fired during his third season, in 2011. Haley has also spent time on the coaching staffs of the Jets, Bears and Cowboys.



Ed Bouchette Ed Bouchette ‏@EdBouchette

#steelers Haley in Arizona today interviewing for Cardinals job

Reply
Retweet
Favorite

SteelersCanada
01-09-2013, 12:46 PM
What the hell? So, I don't know what's going on and take my article with a grain of salt.

- updated first post.

Vis
01-09-2013, 12:49 PM
What the hell? So, I don't know what's going on and take my article with a grain of salt.


Haley said he was happy and wanted to stay then Rooney mused about him retiring.

Vis
01-09-2013, 12:57 PM
19m Will DePaoli Will DePaoli ‏@TIOPS_DePaoli

Some conflicting reports out there on Todd Haley but he is indeed interviewing for Arizona job and expected to take it if offered.

SteelersCanada
01-09-2013, 12:59 PM
Dave Bryan of Steelers Depot just reported that he is indeed interviewing in Arizona right now and is expected to take the deal if offered.

I feel like Vis and I are TMZ reporters right now. Jeez.

Vis
01-09-2013, 01:01 PM
Dave Bryan of Steelers Depot just reported that he is indeed interviewing in Arizona right now and is expected to take the deal if offered.

I feel like Vis and I are TMZ reporters right now. Jeez.

Twitter as news feed is what it's for

Vis
01-09-2013, 01:04 PM
Mike Jurecki ‏@mikejurecki

Has a gd relationship w/ Bidwill & Keim, offensive minded, tried 2 hire F. Kitchens in the past RT @Cards12thMan: u think abt Haley HC 4 AZ?





The Redzone ‏@TheRedzoneorg

Haley is in fact interviewing with the Cardinals today http://tinyurl.com/apxhmx9 #NFL #Cardinals

SteelersCanada
01-09-2013, 01:05 PM
If anything else happens regarding this situation which is quickly becoming a clusterfuck, Vis and I will keep you updated.

harrison'samonster
01-09-2013, 01:08 PM
sounds like he likes his job in Pittsburgh and doesn't want to lose it, but he really wants to be a head coach again.

Vis
01-09-2013, 01:13 PM
sounds like he likes his job in Pittsburgh and doesn't want to lose it, but he really wants to be a head coach again.


I like my job and want a better one too

SteelersCanada
01-09-2013, 01:13 PM
It's sounding more and more like Haley's agent is full of shit. The Steelers was reportedly saying he was in Arizona and interviewing and Bouchette - as much as I don't like the guy - wouldn't put that report out there if there wasn't any truth behind it. That, and I trust Dave Bryan from SteelersDepot and he's reporting the same thing.

I don't know what Haley's agent is doing, but it's frustrating. We need a clear answer here.

wwhickok
01-09-2013, 01:14 PM
Sounds like there is something fishy going on. Part of me expecta him to leave..Part of me hopes I am correct.

SteelersCanada
01-09-2013, 01:15 PM
Report: Todd Haley interviewing with Cardinals today

Posted by Michael David Smith on January 9, 2013, 1:36 PM EST

Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley is reportedly interviewing with the Cardinals today for their head-coaching vacancy.

Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports that Haley is in Arizona today for the Cardinals interview. That news comes as something of a surprise, because there have been multiple reports that Haley was happy to stay in Pittsburgh and wasn’t looking to leave. In fact, agent Jerome Stanley told Ian Rapoport of NFL Network that Haley is not interviewing.

The Cardinals have neither confirmed nor denied that Haley is a candidate for their head-coaching vacancy.

The 45-year-old Haley was well regarded during his previous stint with the Cardinals, as their offensive coordinator in 2007 and 2008. In fact, he was so well regarded that he parlayed his work there into a head-coaching stint with the Chiefs. That, however, did not go well and he was fired during his third season, in 2011. Haley has also spent time on the coaching staffs of the Jets, Bears and Cowboys.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/09/report-todd-haley-interviewing-with-cardinals-today/#comment-2246446

- It sounds like it's going to happen. Taking all the information and putting it together, it sounds like Haley was only going to interview if he thought he had a good chance of going and now he's (reportedly) in Arizona interviewing. His agent might be downplaying it and in this case, flat out denying it, but it's starting to sound more and more like Haley is going to be head coach in Arizona this season.

Vis
01-09-2013, 01:18 PM
Why are they still talking? We want the answer now!

harrison'samonster
01-09-2013, 01:22 PM
I like my job and want a better one too

not me, I love my job! As far as Haley goes, I guess he could want more money or a chance to show that he can win as a HC, personally I'd be happy working for the Steelers.

Vis
01-09-2013, 01:28 PM
Suddenly i think I will be disappointed if he isn't offered the AZ job.

stb_steeler
01-09-2013, 01:30 PM
Money talks.....

Vis
01-09-2013, 01:57 PM
Steelers Depot ‏@Steelersdepot

this RT @EdBouchette: #Steelers President Art Rooney confirms that Haley is interviewing for #Cardinals job.


Ed Bouchette Ed Bouchette ‏@EdBouchette

#Stelers Rooney also gives Haley endorsement as Steelers OC for 2013. Says he did good job first 9 games and then QB was hurt.

harrison'samonster
01-09-2013, 01:58 PM
Steelers Depot ‏@Steelersdepot

this RT @EdBouchette: #Steelers President Art Rooney confirms that Haley is interviewing for #Cardinals job.


Ed Bouchette Ed Bouchette ‏@EdBouchette

#Stelers Rooney also gives Haley endorsement as Steelers OC for 2013. Says he did good job first 9 games and then QB was hurt.

glad to hear! I'm not sold on Haley, but I didn't see any reason to get rid of him after 1 season, especially 1 season that was torn apart by injury

Vis
01-09-2013, 02:01 PM
It sounds as if another NFL head coach position will be filled today as Pittsburgh Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley is headed out west today, interviewing for the Arizona Cardinals head coaching gig, and all reports are this is something both sides really want.

If you are a Steelers fan, you probably have mixed feelings about the idea of Haley leaving. I personally believe that the Steelers not retaining Indianapolis Colts offensive coordinator Bruce Arians was the biggest mistake the Steelers made this past season. Other Steelers fans believe that the new offense Haley implemented in Pittsburgh actually improved the offense and it was only injuries that caused the Steelers to miss the playoffs.

Haley has a history with the Cardinals having served as their offensive coordinator for 2 seasons before moving on. And when he was in Arizona his offense was quite explosive. I can see where this would be a tempting hire for the Cardinals, who fired Ken Whisenhunt last week. Rumor is Arizona really wants Haley and Haley really wants to coach there so I expect this to wrap up pretty neat and clean in a hurry.

My take-I don’t understand why this is so hard for people to understand, but no amount of coaching can make up for poor quarterback play. In 2007 and 2008 those Cardinals teams were led by future Hall of Fame quarterback Kurt Warner. Does anyone really think Haley can repeat that performance with Kevin Kolb under center? The notion that Haley is a significant better coach than Whiz is just silly. And just as with every bad team in the NFL, should Haley take this job, his top priority is going to be to upgrade the quarterback position. As a Steelers fan, I hope Haley leaves. I never felt like his philosophy was a good fit for the Steelers personnel, and I look forward to a new offensive coordinator if he goes.


Read more at http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2013/01/09/pittsburgh-steelers-offensive-coordinator-todd-haley-interviewing-in-airzona/?6s3WjVkG6bdWo48P.99

stb_steeler
01-09-2013, 02:07 PM
Is Norv still available?
All in all i wouldnt be suprised if Arians was coming back.

StainlessStill
01-09-2013, 02:17 PM
It's becoming a GODDAMN CIRCUS here in Pittsburgh! Ever since this entire Arians debacle starting last off-season, the Steelers are all over the place and I don't like it. Art II just confirmed that Haley is interviewing for the Cards job, but other reports says he is not. The hell is going on!

stb_steeler
01-09-2013, 02:25 PM
It's becoming a GODDAMN CIRCUS here in Pittsburgh! Ever since this entire Arians debacle starting last off-season, the Steelers are all over the place and I don't like it. Art II just confirmed that Haley is interviewing for the Cards job, but other reports says he is not. The hell is going on!

What next....Cowhers comin back :toofunny:

harrison'samonster
01-09-2013, 02:27 PM
What next....Cowhers comin back :toofunny:

as Special Teams coach! That would be like a dream come true.

stb_steeler
01-09-2013, 02:31 PM
All this talk about this ones goin to interview or Bens a drama queen shit is why usually i dont follow most media. I mean if we all did it, we'd be freakin tearin our hair out. (for those that still have it). Id rather sit back till the final whistle, after all what the hell can any of us do about it but spout off our opinions anyway!

Vis
01-09-2013, 02:54 PM
I sent my resume

steelfury02
01-09-2013, 03:16 PM
I sent GoFor7's

They told me that they weren't interested but would keep it on file anyways . . .

GoFor7
01-09-2013, 03:32 PM
I sent GoFor7's

They told me that they weren't interested but would keep it on file anyways . . .

Actually, they said that about Artie's. I swapped out my resume with his while you weren't looking.

They actually said more about Artie, but it was so bad they couldn't go into further detail. They seemed very distraught that football acumen could skip a generation from father to son and sent their condolences to Dan Rooney.

Vis
01-09-2013, 03:38 PM
I sent GoFor7's

They told me that they weren't interested but would keep it on file anyways . . .


I think I have a chance. I'll be running the single wing

Fire Haley
01-09-2013, 03:42 PM
anybody that believes anything an agent says is dumb



Haley interviews with Cardinals

Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley interviewed Wednesday for the Arizona Cardinals’ head coaching job, Steelers president Art Rooney II said.

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/3266787-74/cardinals-haley-steelers#axzz2HW6zRMUu

Vis
01-09-2013, 04:04 PM
Mularkey could be available soon by the reports out of Jax

SteelersCanada
01-09-2013, 04:04 PM
I can already see the threads ...

"Haley to Arizona - Hire back Whisenhunt!"

steelfury02
01-09-2013, 04:19 PM
Mularkey could be available soon by the reports out of Jax

I couldn't want anybody less

EDIT: Oh yes I can.

wwhickok
01-09-2013, 04:19 PM
Honestly...I could see them hiring Whisenhunt however I don't think Arians was the right fit here either. Arians works much better with a Pocket passer, which despite his ability to run is what Luck is and what Manning is. I also don't think Haley was/is the right fit. I don't even think Whisenhunt is the right fit although he is closer to what is. His "trick play" style is formulated for speedy, manipulative players which we have in Brown, Sanders, and to a degree Ben. I don't think I would want Turner either...so I say promote Kirby Wilson and see if he can have success and improve the running game also. If it doesn't work out then move on. But take the time to FIND the right fit.

wwhickok
01-09-2013, 04:20 PM
Oh...and HELL NO to Mike Mularkey.

pczach
01-09-2013, 05:01 PM
The one thing that is undeniable here is that the Steelers don't feel like the Steelers right now. A lot of knee-jerk moves and mixed signals from the time Art took over control. So much for the most stable franchise in sports. It almost seems like they're just wandering in the dark hoping to stumble onto something that works. The Steelers have always been rock solid, patient, organized, and steadfast in a direction that they felt they needed to go. I know the media probably makes it feel worse than it is, but for the first time in 40 years I'm doubting the leadership of the organization. Let's hope this gets settled quickly so they can move forward. Three OC's in 8 months is not Steelerlike. :noidea:

Rotorhead
01-09-2013, 05:23 PM
How is this knee-jerk? Haley said he likes it here, but wants to be a HC and only interview if he had a real shot. Obviously he does, so he is interviewing for a job he wants. All this has nothing to do with any Rooney! It makes sense, HC vacancies need to be filled, and Haley has a good resume and history with that organization. We just need to find a decent replacement who will stay for 3-5 years IMO.

steelfury02
01-09-2013, 05:25 PM
How is this knee-jerk? Haley said he likes it here, but wants to be a HC and only interview if he had a real shot. Obviously he does, so he is interviewing for a job he wants. All this has nothing to do with any Rooney! It makes sense, HC vacancies need to be filled, and Haley has a good resume and history with that organization. We just need to find a decent replacement who will stay for 3-5 years IMO.

Mr. Rooney will be back as chairmen - the old fella brings back some of that stability

Also - you people who were making fun of us for saying that the training and methods need to be re-evaluated, he said as much today in his press conference

GoFor7
01-09-2013, 05:25 PM
The one thing that is undeniable here is that the Steelers don't feel like the Steelers right now. A lot of knee-jerk moves and mixed signals from the time Art took over control. So much for the most stable franchise in sports. It almost seems like they're just wandering in the dark hoping to stumble onto something that works. The Steelers have always been rock solid, patient, organized, and steadfast in a direction that they felt they needed to go. I know the media probably makes it feel worse than it is, but for the first time in 40 years I'm doubting the leadership of the organization. Let's hope this gets settled quickly so they can move forward. Three OC's in 8 months is not Steelerlike. :noidea:

I also don't remember Dan speaking to the media about football operations and strategy like Artie did earlier today. He was very hands-off and only stepped in when necessary - like when his team needed a franchise QB after 25 years of mediocrity.

Meanwhile, Jerry Jones Jr. decides to continue meddling and watched a 12-4 team slip to 8-8. "But there were so many injuries!" Yo, there were a lot of injuries in 2011, and the Steelers managed 12-4 and didn't lose to teams they weren't supposed to lose to.

I also got a kick when Artie said he didn't think discipline was a problem with the team.

Face it - this guy isn't his father.

Rotorhead
01-09-2013, 05:35 PM
um, just to clarify, i never said anything of the sort. I agree our injury totals are not the norm.

teegre
01-09-2013, 05:43 PM
Three OC's in 8 months is not Steelerlike. :noidea:

That's a fancy way of swaying statistics. Clever.

Because, technically, it was three coordinators in three seasons... which happens often... especially to good teams.

I remember, during the Cowher years, that there was Gailey, Sherman, Gilbride, & Mularky... within four or five seasons. Also, during the Cowher years, DCs were leaving nearly every year for HC jobs, because of their success (Capers, LeBeau, Haslett). Lastly, the Taperiots have this happen to them ALL of the time; their OCs get hired away seemingly every year.

Coordinators leaving is a by-product of success. Now, obviously, Arians was a different story, but Haley is being hired due to his success with both Arizona and Kansas City.

pczach
01-09-2013, 05:50 PM
How is this knee-jerk? Haley said he likes it here, but wants to be a HC and only interview if he had a real shot. Obviously he does, so he is interviewing for a job he wants. All this has nothing to do with any Rooney! It makes sense, HC vacancies need to be filled, and Haley has a good resume and history with that organization. We just need to find a decent replacement who will stay for 3-5 years IMO.

Knee-jerk is publically saying Ariens is retiring, while in truth they fired him for reasons we still don't completely understand. Firing anyone that still wanted to be here that was a large part of going to multiple Super Bowls is knee-jerk. Hiring a new OC that would obviously piss off thier franchise Qb is knee-jerk. An owner forcing the coaching staff to make a change in offensive style is knee-jerk. Hiring an OC that was part of what I just described above, and is allowed to interview or leave after one unsuccessful year is knee-jerk. If Haley accepts head coaching job, that would be 3rd offensive coordinator in less than a year. How is this going to help anything football related? Answer: It doesn't. And all this happened because they are doing things in a way that THIS organization has not done in nearly a half century.

GoFor7
01-09-2013, 06:14 PM
Knee-jerk is publically saying Ariens is retiring, while in truth they fired him for reasons we still don't completely understand. Firing anyone that still wanted to be here that was a large part of going to multiple Super Bowls is knee-jerk. Hiring a new OC that would obviously piss off thier franchise Qb is knee-jerk. An owner forcing the coaching staff to make a change in offensive style is knee-jerk. Hiring an OC that was part of what I just described above, and is allowed to interview or leave after one unsuccessful year is knee-jerk. If Haley accepts head coaching job, that would be 3rd offensive coordinator in less than a year. How is this going to help anything football related? Answer: It doesn't. And all this happened because they are doing things in a way that THIS organization has not done in nearly a half century.

I agree with much of what you're saying - management has been very un-Steelers-like over the past year.

However, moving on from Haley will be a good thing. Weather or not Haley is a good OC is debatable, but it's clear he's not a fit in Pittsburgh. Ben isn't a dink-and-dunk QB, and the Steelers don't have dink-and-dunk receivers. Ben had a new playbook rammed down his throat by a guy he didn't even know a year ago - it was never a good recipe for success and there was going to be friction. Promoting one of either Randy Fichtner or Kirby Wilson will give Ben an OC that he is more comfortable with.

You can bitch and moan about how "Ben needs to adjust" or "Ben needs to do what Art Rooney II says!" But the truth is - if Ben doesn't trust his OC or the playcalling, it won't work.

steelfury02
01-09-2013, 06:47 PM
I agree with much of what you're saying - management has been very un-Steelers-like over the past year.

However, moving on from Haley will be a good thing. Weather or not Haley is a good OC is debatable, but it's clear he's not a fit in Pittsburgh. Ben isn't a dink-and-dunk QB, and the Steelers don't have dink-and-dunk receivers. Ben had a new playbook rammed down his throat by a guy he didn't even know a year ago - it was never a good recipe for success and there was going to be friction. Promoting one of either Randy Fichtner or Kirby Wilson will give Ben an OC that he is more comfortable with.

You can bitch and moan about how "Ben needs to adjust" or "Ben needs to do what Art Rooney II says!" But the truth is - if Ben doesn't trust his OC or the playcalling, it won't work.

And if we go back to giving Ben what he trusts, has what he wants (career year), then that must equate to success, much like 2007.

Heck. A broken clock is right twice a day.

GoFor7
01-09-2013, 07:46 PM
I will give Jerry Jones Jr. credit on one thing from his press conference today - he actually acknowledged the defense came up short this year in terms of sacks and turnovers.

lloydwoodson
01-10-2013, 04:37 AM
I will give Jerry Jones Jr. credit on one thing from his press conference today - he actually acknowledged the defense came up short this year in terms of sacks and turnovers.

Hates meddling owners loves Jerry Jones... :doh:

teegre
01-10-2013, 05:09 AM
Hates meddling owners loves Jerry Jones... :doh:

He's referring to Art II/he's calling Art II "Jerry Jones".

Sophomoric name-calling. Hee, hee, hee... ugh.

lloydwoodson
01-10-2013, 05:29 AM
He's referring to Art II/he's calling Art II "Jerry Jones".

Sophomoric name-calling. Hee, hee, hee... ugh.

Thanks for pointing that out.

wwhickok
01-10-2013, 05:54 AM
Quite frankly I dont think Art Rooney II and Jerry Jones have anything in common outside of being Owners. Dallas is a sorry excuse for a franchise these days.