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Riddle_Of_Steel
01-03-2013, 02:43 PM
Interesting thought-- I admit I have not yet looked into the "capology" of it, or if it is even possible, but....

Supposedly the Patriots are interested in Mike Wallace. Wallace does not really fit into Haley's system that well, and he has hands of stone.

On the other hand, the Patriots have a WR that they are trying to part ways with, after he had his most productive season with them. He is alos a phenomenal possession and slot receiver, which would fit in our system better than a deep threat that can't catch.

How about Wes Welker for Mike Wallace?

I think this WR corps would be pretty respectable:

Antonio Brown
Manny Sanders
Wes Welker
Jericho Cotchery

It does not have Wallace, but still has LOTS of speed, experience, and when you throw Heath in there-- we would have some realy good hands for Ben to throw to.

Wes Welker would not drop passes that hit him right on the hands....Wallace would be a perfect Trojan horse to give the Patriots. He would take Brady passes away from Gronk, Hernandez, and Sanders and waste them by putting the bal on the ground like he always does.

SteelersCanada
01-03-2013, 02:46 PM
If we don't have the cap space for Wallace, we certainly don't have the cap space for Welker. Also, I don't want him here. Say Haley does go to Arizona and is the new head coach of the Cardinals - that means a change in offensive philosophy. I'm not sure I'd want to pay 10 million to a slot receiver to play in a new offensive scheme, especially if it's a more vertical and upfield passing game.

I'd trade Wallace for Brandon Flowers, though. Especially if Keenan Lewis is gone.

steelfury02
01-03-2013, 02:56 PM
You still need a short-mid game in a vertical attack. You can't go full-vertical.

I would be for it if he was willing to take Brown money - but he won't be.

I see him re-signing for less than he originally wanted because he realizes the grass doesn't get much greener, OR he ends up in Green Bay - my two cents since they'll have to adjust the offense because Jennings will be gone

GMU Steeler
01-03-2013, 02:57 PM
Do we even have the ability to trade him? I thought his contract was up which means he's free to sign with anyone he wants or am I missing something here?

TRH
01-03-2013, 03:05 PM
wouldn't happen anyway. Teams don't do trades like that, especially ours. Welker's heading to the downhill side of his career as well.

steelfury02
01-03-2013, 03:06 PM
two names: Wilson and Washington. We don't really need big names at WR - we need hands.

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-03-2013, 03:11 PM
Do we even have the ability to trade him? I thought his contract was up which means he's free to sign with anyone he wants or am I missing something here?

Nah, you're right. I admit I did not research this at all-- was a just a little nugget/brain-fart that I threw out there.

GMU Steeler
01-03-2013, 03:14 PM
Nah, you're right. I admit I did not research this at all-- was a just a little nugget/brain-fart that I threw out there.

It's cool. I just wanted to make sure. Anyhow. I think if he walks. We probably get a third round comp pick next year for him. Can't remember the last time we had a comp pick that high. Very interested to see where he goes and for what kind of money. He's definitely not getting the Calvin Johnson money he wanted.

pete74
01-03-2013, 03:15 PM
We would have to tag him if we wanted to trade him and that won't happen

steelfury02
01-03-2013, 03:23 PM
It's cool. I just wanted to make sure. Anyhow. I think if he walks. We probably get a third round comp pick next year for him. Can't remember the last time we had a comp pick that high. Very interested to see where he goes and for what kind of money. He's definitely not getting the Calvin Johnson money he wanted.

the hilarious thing of Wallace's situation, is that he might get Brown money or even slightly higher, and will spend the rest of his career in oblvion

Everyone said "Take the solid money Mikey - play for a real org"

Did he listen?

Then there's Woodley the Walrus - this guy has too much dough on the dotted line . . .

SteelersCanada
01-03-2013, 03:28 PM
Then there's Woodley the Walrus - this guy has too much dough on the dotted line . . .

He's been eating too much dough and needs to get his ass back in shape.

We could work out an agreement with another team, sign him to an extension and then trade him to said team. All the while knowing he would be traded but he wouldn't be a cap hit on us, just on the other team.

GMU Steeler
01-03-2013, 03:37 PM
the hilarious thing of Wallace's situation, is that he might get Brown money or even slightly higher, and will spend the rest of his career in oblvion

Everyone said "Take the solid money Mikey - play for a real org"

Did he listen?

Then there's Woodley the Walrus - this guy has too much dough on the dotted line . . .

Yeah Woodley's been a disappointment since his extension. Frustrating because when he's on, he's on but with Harrison aging, he needed to step up this year and he didn't do that. ANd that sucks.

steelfury02
01-03-2013, 03:40 PM
holy crap - two people kinda agreed me with, IN A ROW

marking it down - you won't live it down either!

Seems like injury or focus become a problem lately after extensions - is it me, or are the Steelers re-signing at too high a price and too quickly?

I can't remember Woodley's body of work that got him that extension. Was it his flash the rookie season and then his rampage up to SB XLIII? I think he was pretty good in 09 and 10, but got injured in both right?

austinfrench76
01-03-2013, 03:45 PM
It's sad what happened to Wallace. He seemed like a bright eyed, bright smiled kid who just wanted to show he belonged. Always seemed to go the extra mile and was a helluva deep threat. The stone hands really started the 2nd half of last year. These WR's are always up in their own heads, that's what makes them great, that it seems like a mental issue. He had no issues prior to that with drops, that I remember. And I remember reading that even his agent was telling him to take the money and he basically said NO. Either way, he's gone and we need to find a new 4th (which is really a true #1). Woodley was so dissappointing......

SteelersCanada
01-03-2013, 03:52 PM
And I remember reading that even his agent was telling him to take the money and he basically said NO. Either way, he's gone and we need to find a new 4th (which is really a true #1)

I don't know where you read this, but it's probably bullshit. Every single report coming out was that Bus Cook was the problem and was trying to nickle and dime the Steelers all he could to try and get more guaranteed money. The simple fact of the matter is, we don't know whether or not Mike or Bus or even the Steelers were the problem here because we weren't in those negotiating rooms when it all took place. That being said, I very, very much doubt Wallace and the Steelers were the problem.

If I had to guess, I would say that he wasn't opposed to the 5 year / 50 million we offered him but Bussy took exception to the amount that was guaranteed and, Mike being young, was just listening to his agent. He doesn't have the business skills that a Brandon Marshall has in which he doesn't even really need an agent and can negotiate himself. It's a guess, but it's based on what a dick Bus Cook is and how the Steelers organization works.

steelfury02
01-03-2013, 04:02 PM
I don't know where you read this, but it's probably bullshit. Every single report coming out was that Bus Cook was the problem and was trying to nickle and dime the Steelers all he could to try and get more guaranteed money. The simple fact of the matter is, we don't know whether or not Mike or Bus or even the Steelers were the problem here because we weren't in those negotiating rooms when it all took place. That being said, I very, very much doubt Wallace and the Steelers were the problem.

If I had to guess, I would say that he wasn't opposed to the 5 year / 50 million we offered him but Bussy took exception to the amount that was guaranteed and, Mike being young, was just listening to his agent. He doesn't have the business skills that a Brandon Marshall has in which he doesn't even really need an agent and can negotiate himself. It's a guess, but it's based on what a dick Bus Cook is and how the Steelers organization works.

you said dick Bus Cook, and I couldn't help but think of Dick Butkus - sorry, had to chuckle:chuckle:

lloydwoodson
01-03-2013, 04:16 PM
holy crap - two people kinda agreed me with, IN A ROW

marking it down - you won't live it down either!

Seems like injury or focus become a problem lately after extensions - is it me, or are the Steelers re-signing at too high a price and too quickly?

I can't remember Woodley's body of work that got him that extension. Was it his flash the rookie season and then his rampage up to SB XLIII? I think he was pretty good in 09 and 10, but got injured in both right?

Yeah I couldn't agree with you more. :wave:

Last year was the first bad year Woodley has had.

He had 9 sacks in 10 games in 2011. Then he got extended. Then he did absolutely nothing.

He will be back in form I am sure. As for Wallace...

There is a way to trade Wallace but it wouldn't work.

If you franchise tagged Wallace and then traded him.

Wallace's salary would be huge and no team would want him but a traded franchise tagged player does not count as a salary cap penalty when they are traded.

lloydwoodson
01-03-2013, 04:29 PM
And another thing!

Brown is capable of being the #1. He is almost exactly the same player Santonio Holmes was. I could see Brown getting 80-90 catches per year. Sanders, Miller and the RBs would make up the slack as would Cotchery.

He was on pace for 81 receptions this year. He just missed 3 games. He is only going to get better. He is young and a hard worker so cheer up guys.

desertsteel
01-03-2013, 06:01 PM
If Wallace goes to the Pats he will break all of Randy Moss' records. That's how the football gods work.

pete74
01-03-2013, 06:17 PM
And another thing!

Brown is capable of being the #1. He is almost exactly the same player Santonio Holmes was. I could see Brown getting 80-90 catches per year. Sanders, Miller and the RBs would make up the slack as would Cotchery.

He was on pace for 81 receptions this year. He just missed 3 games. He is only going to get better. He is young and a hard worker so cheer up guys.

Brown might be able to be a #1wr but he really hasn't shown anything to prove he is. He just can't get the touchdowns a #1 WR should even with Wallace having a down year.

mikegrimey
01-03-2013, 06:36 PM
I don't even think Wallace or Welker will be under contract from the steelers and pats when the year is over

Anyway, would be fun to see how Welker could do w the steelers and Ben, he was a hard worker in Miami, but I fink his success has as much to do w who's throwing him the ball.

zcoop
01-03-2013, 06:38 PM
Brown might be able to be a #1wr but he really hasn't shown anything to prove he is. He just can't get the touchdowns a #1 WR should even with Wallace having a down year.

True dat, and I don't know where this 'Hands of Stone" Bullshit comes from. Wallace has pretty good hands, especially when he's involved in the game plan and has a good ball to catch.

His stats speaks for him, perhaps some need to check them out.

lloydwoodson
01-04-2013, 01:37 AM
True dat, and I don't know where this 'Hands of Stone" Bullshit comes from. Wallace has pretty good hands, especially when he's involved in the game plan and has a good ball to catch.

His stats speaks for him, perhaps some need to check them out.

I want Wallace back.

If that does not happen I believe in Antonio Brown's ability to do the job of a #1 WR.

VictoryFormation
01-04-2013, 04:20 AM
Wallace was a lucky third round pick back in '09. If the Steelers don't resign him, and they make another lucky pick, hell, they break even in the long run. However, I read somewhere that if the Steelers put the franchise tag on Wallace, they might be able to trade him for something more than a 3rd round pick, or even a pick in this year's draft instead of 2014. That's what they did with Santonio Holmes, but that was a year before he became an unrestricted free agent. But, the Steelers gave up some ground on that one. If Holmes would have become an unrestricted free agent in 2011, they would have gotten a third round pick. Instead, they opted to trade him to the jets for a fifth rounder in 2010. It turned out to be a bust, because I don't think they took anybody in the fifth round that was worth a damn, that year.

Millers the sh!t
01-04-2013, 09:30 AM
I don't know where you read this, but it's probably bullshit. Every single report coming out was that Bus Cook was the problem and was trying to nickle and dime the Steelers all he could to try and get more guaranteed money. The simple fact of the matter is, we don't know whether or not Mike or Bus or even the Steelers were the problem here because we weren't in those negotiating rooms when it all took place. That being said, I very, very much doubt Wallace and the Steelers were the problem.

If I had to guess, I would say that he wasn't opposed to the 5 year / 50 million we offered him but Bussy took exception to the amount that was guaranteed and, Mike being young, was just listening to his agent. He doesn't have the business skills that a Brandon Marshall has in which he doesn't even really need an agent and can negotiate himself. It's a guess, but it's based on what a dick Bus Cook is and how the Steelers organization works.

If Wallace wanted to sign, he would have. He can fire his agent too. It's B.S. Wallace definitely was/is a major part on not getting signed.

teegre
01-04-2013, 10:54 AM
Wallace was a lucky third round pick back in '09. If the Steelers don't resign him, and they make another lucky pick, hell, they break even in the long run. However, I read somewhere that if the Steelers put the franchise tag on Wallace, they might be able to trade him for something more than a 3rd round pick, or even a pick in this year's draft instead of 2014. That's what they did with Santonio Holmes, but that was a year before he became an unrestricted free agent. But, the Steelers gave up some ground on that one. If Holmes would have become an unrestricted free agent in 2011, they would have gotten a third round pick. Instead, they opted to trade him to the jets for a fifth rounder in 2010. It turned out to be a bust, because I don't think they took anybody in the fifth round that was worth a damn, that year.

Peter King did a piece on how trading Santonio Holmes eventually (multiple other trades) turned into Byron Leftwich, Bryant, McFadden, & Antonio Brown.

fer522
01-04-2013, 12:07 PM
Brown might be able to be a #1wr but he really hasn't shown anything to prove he is. He just can't get the touchdowns a #1 WR should even with Wallace having a down year.

Wallace has always been ben's first read, maybe that has a lot to do with how many td's brown gets :noidea:

ricardisimo
01-04-2013, 12:19 PM
The Patriots don't really go deep a lot either, do they?

pete74
01-04-2013, 12:29 PM
Wallace has always been ben's first read, maybe that has a lot to do with how many td's brown gets :noidea:

Wallace is definitely not always Bens first read. On certain plays of course he is but I'm sure there are quite a few for Brown as well. All I'm saying is Brown isn't gurentee to be able to assume that #1 role and succeed the way a lot of people think. He hasn't blown people away like say a Julio Jones did for Atlanta. I know Jones was drafted earlier but none of that matters once you break the starting lineup

fer522
01-04-2013, 12:42 PM
I like Brown and he's a hell of a player but I just don't think he's a #1 WR I hope we can somehow re-sign Wallace

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-04-2013, 01:11 PM
Wallace has always been ben's first read, maybe that has a lot to do with how many td's brown gets :noidea:

You cannot score TDs as a WR if the QB always throws it at #17.

How many times did BB target Antonio Brown in the redzone this year, as opposed to Mike the Drops Wallace?

This is the main problem with Mike Wallace-- he takes touches away from the other guys like Heath or Brown, and they end up being wasted downs because he always drops it or watches while teh defender intercepts it. Wallace is a frigging trojan horse for our offense....

VictoryFormation
01-04-2013, 02:38 PM
The best fit for Mike Wallace would be Indianapolis, with Bruce Arians. He fits better there than he does with the Steelers.

pete74
01-04-2013, 03:04 PM
You cannot score TDs as a WR if the QB always throws it at #17.

How many times did BB target Antonio Brown in the redzone this year, as opposed to Mike the Drops Wallace?

This is the main problem with Mike Wallace-- he takes touches away from the other guys like Heath or Brown, and they end up being wasted downs because he always drops it or watches while teh defender intercepts it. Wallace is a frigging trojan horse for our offense....

Yea but wallace does score and so does Miller. I'm sure if brown got better separation in the red zone he would have more touchdowns.
Everyone tears on Wallace for his drops and I agree he had a bad year but he still led the team in touchdowns and yards even in a bad year. Brown cost us a lot this year with his mess ups but people seem to not want to discuss that since he just signed a contract. He put us out of the Chargers game when he decided to stare at the ball instead of falling on it in the end zone. His late game fumble in Oakland let Oakland tie the game and win in OT. His late game fumble against Dallas kept them in the game and eventually helped them beat us.
All I'm saying is all our WRs sucked. Everyone played poorly. They all need to do some serious work all off season

PATS16N0
01-04-2013, 03:35 PM
The Patriots don't really go deep a lot either, do they?

No, but that's because we lack a receiver with the speed to break open down the field.

There's no way the Patriots would trade Welker for Wallace.
The Patriots will sign Welker after this season is over. We're still paying Ocho Stinko this season and that money will be Welker's starting next year.

We'll also want to go after Wallace. Pats fans have been talking about it since last season. He would be a great replacement for Branch. It would be Wallace, Lloyd, Welker, Woodhead, Edelman, Gronk, Hernandez, Brady, Ridley, etc. Dangerous.

I'm just not sure we'll be able to afford him. Our cap situation right now is favorable but we'll probably sign Talib to a few years because he's transformed our secondary.

We could -and probably will- offer Wallace 4 to 4 and a half million a year to play for the Patriots for 2 seasons. That, IIRC, is what we'll have to play with in FA after resigning a name or two on our offensive line and shoring up Talib and Welker.

He'll get more elsewhere, but if he wants a Superbowl ring and big money contracts in 2 years, he'll take something like that

MasterOfPuppets
01-04-2013, 03:39 PM
there will be no trades or franchise tags..wallace will be an UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT

plenewken
01-04-2013, 03:46 PM
No, but that's because we lack a receiver with the speed to break open down the field.

There's no way the Patriots would trade Welker for Wallace.
The Patriots will sign Welker after this season is over. We're still paying Ocho Stinko this season and that money will be Welker's starting next year.

We'll also want to go after Wallace. Pats fans have been talking about it since last season. He would be a great replacement for Branch. It would be Wallace, Lloyd, Welker, Woodhead, Edelman, Gronk, Hernandez, Brady, Ridley, etc. Dangerous.

I'm just not sure we'll be able to afford him. Our cap situation right now is favorable but we'll probably sign Talib to a few years because he's transformed our secondary.

We could -and probably will- offer Wallace 4 to 4 and a half million a year to play for the Patriots for 2 seasons. That, IIRC, is what we'll have to play with in FA after resigning a name or two on our offensive line and shoring up Talib and Welker.

He'll get more elsewhere, but if he wants a Superbowl ring and big money contracts in 2 years, he'll take something like that

You won't get Wallace for $4M - $4.5M/year, even if Gisele Bundchen promises to blow him after each practice session and each game. Let's be serious.

pete74
01-04-2013, 03:48 PM
If he would sign for under 8 million a season he will be a Steeler next season

zcoop
01-04-2013, 07:14 PM
Yea but wallace does score and so does Miller. I'm sure if brown got better separation in the red zone he would have more touchdowns.
Everyone tears on Wallace for his drops and I agree he had a bad year but he still led the team in touchdowns and yards even in a bad year. Brown cost us a lot this year with his mess ups but people seem to not want to discuss that since he just signed a contract. He put us out of the Chargers game when he decided to stare at the ball instead of falling on it in the end zone. His late game fumble in Oakland let Oakland tie the game and win in OT. His late game fumble against Dallas kept them in the game and eventually helped them beat us.
All I'm saying is all our WRs sucked. Everyone played poorly. They all need to do some serious work all off season

Wallace didn't have a bad year, the entire Steeler offense did. The WRs were not the cause of it either, the predictable play calling had a major part in it. All one has to do is look at last year's stats and compare them to this year. The truth can be found there, not in some of the bullshit spewed by propaganda reported by some on this board.

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-05-2013, 12:10 PM
Yea but wallace does score and so does Miller. I'm sure if brown got better separation in the red zone he would have more touchdowns.

Everyone tears on Wallace for his drops and I agree he had a bad year but he still led the team in touchdowns and yards even in a bad year.

Very true. Brown definitely had an off year, if his first two were any indication of his potential. He got his check and got comfortable. He is fast, but not particularly tall or much of a red zone threat.

But most of Wallace's TDs were off of 45 yard bombers. He doesn't make catches in traffic or in a crowded endzone.

I do like a lot of aspects of Wallace's play, and I think we are a better offense with him. I guess I just don't like the assumption that someone else could not have scored those TDs as well, while also being able to deliver more well-rounded WR play on the field. Our offense would be more balanced without him.


All I'm saying is all our WRs sucked. Everyone played poorly. They all need to do some serious work all off season

For sure.

I am pretty confident the Steelers will address their problems. Besides the Oline, I think Tomlin has shown a lot of adaptability and ability to overcome obstacles since coming on board.

They do have to work this offseason.

Despite my argument with Hipchest, I still think they need to seriously address the conditioning program they have in place now.

But he did bring up a good point.

The new rules and shortened OTA's really do hurt the more physical teams. The Ravens had a similar rash of crippling injuries, as did the Giants (if not mistaken) and some other teams. The Ravens still finished ahead partially because they were not fielding an overhauled offensive scheme and did not have as many offensive struggles early on.

If true, then teams like the Steelers not only need to address their conditioning programs, but also their drafting and personnel strategy. Less superstars, but deeper rosters or something.

That goofball commissioner is changing the game too rapidly. The Steelers need to learn to stay one step ahead of his tinkering. He wants to get rid of kickoffs now, which hilariously, would benefit our team because they were that rotten on special teams. It's one less opportunity to get penalized.