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GoFor7
01-04-2013, 11:46 AM
Ed Bouchette and Gerry Dulac discuss reasons why the Steelers had such a disappointing season:

http://www.post-gazette.com/video/?v=2065786405001

Yinz might not like what's said in the second half of the video...

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-04-2013, 12:01 PM
Ed Bouchette and Gerry Dulac discuss reasons why the Steelers had such a disappointing season:

http://www.post-gazette.com/video/?v=2065786405001

Yinz might not like what's said in the second half of the video...

They said exactly what I have been trying to tell you in several other threads-- things were going GREAT, until midseason.

Big Ben was on pace to break most of his prior records, we were rolling at 6-3, the offense was keeping the defense rested, and the defense was starting to wake up.

I also notice how almost nobody in the Pittsburgh press is willing to touch on the fact that Ben is a new father, and how that has affected his game at all.

New parents routinely sleep around 3 hours per night...

They also went on to say that Todd Haley will be back next year, and that we just have to wait and see what direction we go in next season.

OX1947
01-04-2013, 12:01 PM
No idea why anyone would want to look back on this season. I want to forget it existed.

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-04-2013, 12:05 PM
The real question here, is NOT how did we end up at 8-8.

The question is how did a 6-3 team finish out going 1-5?

Well, what changed around that time?

* Ben started playing more sandlot football, and got squashed by Tamba Hali after holding the ball for 8 seconds on one dropback.

* Haley started listening to Mike Wallace and the fans who wanted more deep plays to Wallace. We started trying to force balls to Wallace, resulting in Ben holding the ball longer, Olinemen getting hurt trying to hold blocks for 9 seconds or more, and more interceptions.

* Ben became a new daddy and his focus shifted from football to his son (understandable, but to be expected).

pete74
01-04-2013, 12:12 PM
The real question here, is NOT how did we end up at 8-8.

The question is how did a 6-3 team finish out going 1-5?

Well, what changed around that time?

* Ben started playing more sandlot football, and got squashed by Tamba Hali after holding the ball for 8 seconds on one dropback.

* Haley started listening to Mike Wallace and the fans who wanted more deep plays to Wallace. We started trying to force balls to Wallace, resulting in Ben holding the ball longer, Olinemen getting hurt trying to hold blocks for 9 seconds or more, and more interceptions.

* Ben became a new daddy and his focus shifted from football to his son (understandable, but to be expected).

I don't buy the '' he's a new dad'' excuse. Most players have kids and he can afford a live in nanny. That's just a dumb excuse in my mind. I gurentee he got a good night sleep before every game

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-04-2013, 12:15 PM
I don't buy the '' he's a new dad'' excuse. Most players have kids and he can afford a live in nanny. That's just a dumb excuse in my mind. I gurentee he got a good night sleep before every game

You've obviously never been a parent.

You can have a nannie, or wetnurse or whatever, but when that baby so much as "cooos" and makes a sound-- you wake up. That is father's instinct-- been ingrained into our nature far longer than throwing footballs has been.

Whether you have a nannie or not-- being a new father CHANGES EVERYTHING. Mentaly, emotionally, and even hormonally.

Besuides the sleep-- do you honestly think Ben's pmental priority the last month or two has been to make sure he logs extra time in the filmroom everyday, and studying his new Haley-infused playbook? Or could it have changed to "I want to go home to be with my son"?

Pro football is such a competitive sport, that even a slight mental lapse on the part of a crucial position like QB can result in one or two bad throws per game-- and that is the difference between being 8-8 and 10-6.

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-04-2013, 12:19 PM
Either way, I do not offer it so much as an excuse, so much as an obvious explanation for those who have been wondering why ben did not win us games in the 4th quarter like he usually does and whatnot.

I predicted this way back in August, if I can dig up the threads, that Ben's play would have a huge dropoff once Little Ben arrived.

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-04-2013, 12:39 PM
Almost without a doubt, Ben's injury was probably the biggest factor contributing to his end-of-season implosion. I would think it is kinda hard to establish an effective throwing motion when you have some broken rbs floating around in there near your aorta.

pete74
01-04-2013, 01:06 PM
You've obviously never been a parent.

You can have a nannie, or wetnurse or whatever, but when that baby so much as "cooos" and makes a sound-- you wake up. That is father's instinct-- been ingrained into our nature far longer than throwing footballs has been.

Whether you have a nannie or not-- being a new father CHANGES EVERYTHING. Mentaly, emotionally, and even hormonally.

Besuides the sleep-- do you honestly think Ben's pmental priority the last month or two has been to make sure he logs extra time in the filmroom everyday, and studying his new Haley-infused playbook? Or could it have changed to "I want to go home to be with my son"?

Pro football is such a competitive sport, that even a slight mental lapse on the part of a crucial position like QB can result in one or two bad throws per game-- and that is the difference between being 8-8 and 10-6.


Sorry but I have a one and a 5 year old. I spend every second awY from work with them and my job never suffered foe one second because of them. I'm sure there are a few parents that can't handle parenting and work but I'm not one of them and I wouldn't expect a professional athlete who really only needs to give it his all one day a week to be one either

GoFor7
01-04-2013, 01:09 PM
Maybe not all of us are hanging our hats on a three game stretch for one season?

All the Haley apologists looks back to the games against the Bengals, Redskins, and Giants and say "Look! It worked!"

Really? It had nothing to do with the fact that the Bengals and Redskins were playing their worst football of the season (11 drops by WAS receivers in that game). Or the fact that the Giants generally start their mid-to-late season slump in November? Same could be said about the games against the Jets, Eagles, and the Ravens the second time - all teams that were slumping or beginning a skid.

Perhaps some of us aren't just ready to hang our hats on the Haley offense when you already have a QB that is 10-5 in the postseason, 3 SB appearances, 2 SB wins.

"But Haley will make him better!"

All those 3rd and longs early in the season suggest it was Ben making Haley look better actually.

pete74
01-04-2013, 01:09 PM
Almost without a doubt, Ben's injury was probably the biggest factor contributing to his end-of-season implosion. I would think it is kinda hard to establish an effective throwing motion when you have some broken rbs floating around in there near your aorta.

This I agree with

fer522
01-04-2013, 01:55 PM
Maybe not all of us are hanging our hats on a three game stretch for one season?

All the Haley apologists looks back to the games against the Bengals, Redskins, and Giants and say "Look! It worked!"

Really? It had nothing to do with the fact that the Bengals and Redskins were playing their worst football of the season (11 drops by WAS receivers in that game). Or the fact that the Giants generally start their mid-to-late season slump in November? Same could be said about the games against the Jets, Eagles, and the Ravens the second time - all teams that were slumping or beginning a skid.

Perhaps some of us aren't just ready to hang our hats on the Haley offense when you already have a QB that is 10-5 in the postseason, 3 SB appearances, 2 SB wins.

"But Haley will make him better!"

All those 3rd and longs early in the season suggest it was Ben making Haley look better actually.

You know who else has been to 3 Super Bowl and has 2 rings?... Charlie Batch :noidea:

GoFor7
01-04-2013, 02:02 PM
You know who else has been to 3 Super Bowl and has 2 rings?... Charlie Batch :noidea:

Someone had to hold Ben's clipboard in those games.

austinfrench76
01-04-2013, 02:30 PM
Ben has a new baby is the reason?? C'mon bro's - THERE IS NO CHANCE IN HELL HE DOESN'T HAVE A NANNY. Maybe several! I do live in California now so maybe I'm just jaded!

But seriously, the reason for the season - Ben's injury for sure. Playing like an MVP, gets hurt, comes back different - end of story.

torpedoshell31
01-04-2013, 02:58 PM
The Steelers played 8 games this year that were decided by a FG in the final seconds. In those games they were 3-5. If they were 5-3, they would have finished 10-6 and won the division and everyone would have said they had a good year. When in fact the only difference would have been 2 FG's.

steelfury02
01-04-2013, 03:17 PM
If Ben made Haley look better and is so responsible for the outcome of an offense - Ben needs to do a better job of making people look better.

You can't make claims like that and then come back and say he has to do it because he's handcuffed. Ben is capable to improve - which he absolutely must do for the offense to become elite for once.

Enough of the marty ball stuff - I've witnessed Ben go for the home run many times when all he had to do was check down, run to the open space 3 yards in front of him for the 1st down, and have seen Brown and Heath wide open for a 10-12 yard gain and see Ben take a sack cause he didn't have the time he wanted to go for the air raid. Ben has been responsible for getting sacked out of field goal range on at least a few occasions because he refuses to throw the ball away or take what the defense gave him. Sure - his skill set has produced some of my favorite memories of him - it is simply not enough anymore.

If he's so responsible for success of an offense - I'd say its a mixed bag - his skill set is something you are relying your whole debate on - and guess what - not 1 elite or even efficient offense has been produced from that skill set alone. He needs a coordinator to help him understand there is more to the QB position than guts. It isn't enough to get to where they need to go - he needs to take his game to the next level on top of the skill set he already has.

Ricco Suavez
01-04-2013, 05:06 PM
I think these two Knowledgeable writers hit most of the problems on the head. I love that they spread the so called "blame" around because this was a team failure. While I will defend Ben for taking most of the blame he has to shoulder some of the issues for the late season collapse and his inability to pull out at least a few of those close games. I think the Steelers lack an identity right now, they do not know if they are a power team, a finesse team, a cerebral team , a big play team, or a dink and dunk team. They lack the RBs and the hogs up front to be a true power team, not sure Ben is the caliber of QB to run a sophisticated offense like a Peyton, or the Dink and dunk like Brady, but I feel they tend to be more of a finesse team with big play capabilities. I would love to see some commitment to a better running game, but unless we can get some consistency out of the OLine and the RBs I foresee more short yardage shortcomings.

mikegrimey
01-04-2013, 05:38 PM
Even before Ben got Hirt and our offense fell apart, it's not like we were lighting up the scoreboard. The only game we scored more than 3 TDs in was against Oakland, and they were playing without any quality CBs.

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-04-2013, 05:56 PM
Sorry but I have a one and a 5 year old. I spend every second awY from work with them and my job never suffered foe one second because of them.

Not trying to be argumentative, but...

a) You are not an NFL QB. The duties, expectations, and amount of time you have to put into your job may not be on the same level.

b) Big Ben is NOT you. We already have read many times that Ben is NOT a filmroom junkie at all, without the added distraction of having a newborn around. You may very well be a better professional than a lot of the guys we watch on Sundays and think the world of.

An NFL QB cannot spend "every second away from work" with their kids like you did and expect to succeed. That is a job that requires you to spend a lot of your own personal time studying the playbook and analyzing film in the off-hours. That is, unless you want to be Mark Sanchez or throw costly pick-6's to lose games in the final moments.

I'm sure there are a few parents that can't handle parenting and work but I'm not one of them and I wouldn't expect a professional athlete who really only needs to give it his all one day a week to be one either

So....NFL QBs only work one day a week?

The state does not even think people should handle being a parent to a newborn and work at he same time-- that is why they offer 12 weeks of paternity leave for all new parents, 6 weeks paid, 6 weeks not. Most workplaces also feature some sort of paternity allowance. The NFL does not-- its schedule is static.

NFL QBs don't have the luxury of taking a month or two off from work to focus on their newborn.

I don't much care if he has a dozen nannies or not. When that baby cries or makes a sound-- it is instinctual-- you WILL wake up. Many times per night.

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-04-2013, 05:59 PM
Even before Ben got Hirt and our offense fell apart, it's not like we were lighting up the scoreboard. The only game we scored more than 3 TDs in was against Oakland, and they were playing without any quality CBs.

But they still ranked higher in scoring than 3 out of 5 Arians' offenses. Throw in the fact that they were racking up ridiculous ToP, using Heath Miller more effectively, and converting 3rd downs at will, and I don't see how anybody could be looking backwards at Arians' days as the "good ole days".

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-04-2013, 06:02 PM
Maybe not all of us are hanging our hats on a three game stretch for one season?

All the Haley apologists looks back to the games against the Bengals, Redskins, and Giants and say "Look! It worked!"

Really? It had nothing to do with the fact that the Bengals and Redskins were playing their worst football of the season (11 drops by WAS receivers in that game). Or the fact that the Giants generally start their mid-to-late season slump in November? Same could be said about the games against the Jets, Eagles, and the Ravens the second time - all teams that were slumping or beginning a skid.

Perhaps some of us aren't just ready to hang our hats on the Haley offense when you already have a QB that is 10-5 in the postseason, 3 SB appearances, 2 SB wins.

"But Haley will make him better!"

All those 3rd and longs early in the season suggest it was Ben making Haley look better actually.

6-3 is 6-3.

You only want to look at the overall 8-8 record when it benefits your argument, but then want to be granular and pull apart a 6-3 stretch, while being completely unwilling to examine the 1-5 stretch under the same scrutiny.

lloydwoodson
01-04-2013, 08:31 PM
6-3 is 6-3.

You only want to look at the overall 8-8 record when it benefits your argument, but then want to be granular and pull apart a 6-3 stretch, while being completely unwilling to examine the 1-5 stretch under the same scrutiny.

It is pretty unbelievable how often Steelers fans cite team records to claim individual players are better than others. I can see why other fans hate us.

I loved the "Charlie Batch" has 2 superbowl rings quote! So funny.

Ike Taylor>Darelle Revis! He has 2 superbowl rings!

Larry Foote>Patrick Willis! He has 2 superbowl rings!

Rashard Mendenhall>Adrian Peterson! He has 2 superbowl rings!

GoFor7
01-04-2013, 10:31 PM
If Ben made Haley look better and is so responsible for the outcome of an offense - Ben needs to do a better job of making people look better.

You can't make claims like that and then come back and say he has to do it because he's handcuffed. Ben is capable to improve - which he absolutely must do for the offense to become elite for once.

Actually, yes I can. When stupid plays are called on 1st and 2nd downs with the intent of possessing, and they fail, only then do they call on Ben.

Art Rooney is perfectly capable of not meddling with football operations, especially when a) he has Kevin Colbert, and b) he has a QB that won 2 super bowls already. Stop pretending like Ben has to change his game. Perhaps instead of bitching about Ben not conforming to Haley's offense, they should build an offense around Ben. Did you listen to what Bouchette and Dulac said near the end of the video, or did you cover your ears and go "la la la la la?"

Enough of the marty ball stuff - I've witnessed Ben go for the home run many times when all he had to do was check down, run to the open space 3 yards in front of him for the 1st down, and have seen Brown and Heath wide open for a 10-12 yard gain and see Ben take a sack cause he didn't have the time he wanted to go for the air raid. Ben has been responsible for getting sacked out of field goal range on at least a few occasions because he refuses to throw the ball away or take what the defense gave him. Sure - his skill set has produced some of my favorite memories of him - it is simply not enough anymore.

Maybe if they don't play Marty ball for most of the game, they don't need that FG at the end, and Ben is on the bench.

If he's so responsible for success of an offense - I'd say its a mixed bag - his skill set is something you are relying your whole debate on - and guess what - not 1 elite or even efficient offense has been produced from that skill set alone. He needs a coordinator to help him understand there is more to the QB position than guts. It isn't enough to get to where they need to go - he needs to take his game to the next level on top of the skill set he already has.

And Haley is that guy why? Because your emperor Artie said so? How about they build an offense around HIM instead of an outdated philosophy. Then maybe he'll be more successful.

6-3 is 6-3.

You only want to look at the overall 8-8 record when it benefits your argument, but then want to be granular and pull apart a 6-3 stretch, while being completely unwilling to examine the 1-5 stretch under the same scrutiny.

Two super bowl wins is two super bowl wins. Did that before Artie thought he knew something about NFL offenses.

lloydwoodson
01-05-2013, 03:50 AM
And Haley is that guy why? Because your emperor Artie said so? How about they build an offense around HIM instead of an outdated philosophy. Then maybe he'll be more successful.


The Steelers are 60-40 pass. Passes to running backs were very successful this year. I don't see a problem.

The offense WAS built around Ben. The offense was completely built around him. The Steelers front office bet everything on Ben.

Ben has had Hines, Miller, Plax, Santonio, Antonio, Wallace, ARE, Sanders and Cotchery to throw to and the Steelers haven't built a team around him? That SHOULD be good enough for better than 21 ppg.

Meanwhile Ben holds the ball so long he makes his OL look like garbage and the Steelers end up spending 2 1sts and 2 2nds trying to keep him upright.

:banging:

You said Ben was better than Brees. Can you tell us how much better he is? Give some examples please.

"Blah blah blah wins blah superbowls blah blah blah."

steeltheone
01-05-2013, 08:39 AM
It is pretty unbelievable how often Steelers fans cite team records to claim individual players are better than others. I can see why other fans hate us.

I loved the "Charlie Batch" has 2 superbowl rings quote! So funny.

Ike Taylor>Darelle Revis! He has 2 superbowl rings!

Larry Foote>Patrick Willis! He has 2 superbowl rings!

Rashard Mendenhall>Adrian Peterson! He has 2 superbowl rings!

Better than that, Dwyer is a great runningback

Our receivers are the best in the league

Pouncey is a pro bowler

Big Ben sucks??