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View Full Version : Tired of Being in Cap Hell Every Year


Steelers5895
01-06-2013, 04:24 PM
The more I think about it, we may be entering a dark stretch in Steelers History. Once again we enter an off- season with no cap room.

Though the Steelers have never been big spenders, their recent draft failures and compounding the failures by signing those players to long term deals, I am not sure how we are going to replenish this roster with talent.

We have no roster flexibility this off season. We have declining players with high salaries and no one to fill the voids on the roster. No money to get a player and a closing window to let draft picks develop.

We missed on Hood, Heyward, Worlids and numerous others which hurts depth, requires us to have to play declining older players like Hampton, Keisel, Woodley and Harrison.

This off season will be a big challaneg and we cant miss at 17.

The_Joker
01-06-2013, 04:25 PM
Boo hoo we suck we will be 4-12

There did it for you people

Hawaii 5-0
01-06-2013, 04:41 PM
Boo hoo we suck we will be 4-12

There did it for you people

thanks, glad we got that out of the way and settled once and for all...:drink: :wink02:

lloydwoodson
01-06-2013, 04:41 PM
We have no roster flexibility this off season. We have declining players with high salaries and no one to fill the voids on the roster. No money to get a player and a closing window to let draft picks develop.

We missed on Hood, Heyward, Worlids and numerous others which hurts depth, requires us to have to play declining older players like Hampton, Keisel, Woodley and Harrison.

This off season will be a big challaneg and we cant miss at 17.

Wow. Just wow. First off when have the Steelers missed with their first round pick?

Ziggy Hood and Rashard Mendenhall according to some of you.

Ziggy showed a lot of improvement this year. He made as many plays as Keisel on the other side. The DL on the 2nd best run defense in the NFL is the problem on the team? Really? Heyward put up half as many tackles as Keisel in under a quarter the amount of playing time and he is a 1st round bust??? The first year Heyward starts I want you to remember you called him a bust.

Worilds contributed 5 sacks in a backup role. He is a miss because he isn't starting over former DPOY Harrison? The Steelers do have the talent they just aren't playing it. Just like Keenan Lewis and Cortez Allen sat behind Will Gay.

harrison'samonster
01-06-2013, 04:45 PM
I don't understand why ppl are so down on Hood either. Mendenhall i'm not so sure of, but I'm happy w/ Hood. Worilds looks great when he comes in. Heyward made some strides through the season and I think he'll be ready to start if needed.

Steelers5895
01-06-2013, 05:18 PM
I don't want to hear about a first round pick after 3 seasons that he is improved. On a third round pick that is acceptable but not a first. Heyward in year 2 couldn't displace a 35 year old lineman. Hood drafted as a dt couldn't make it so was moved outside.

As for worlids, I am not sure any of us will be thrilled if he was our starter. Mendy was serviceable but not as good as a lot of other 1st round backs. Sweed was a bust.

Other draft picks can't stay healthy and the fact we can't afford depth based on cap hell and missing in mid to late rounds, we are not getting better.

Sugar coat and overvalue our drafts of it makes you feel better but it takes too long for our picks to develop. It took Timmons to this season to be disruptive. Unacceptable. Development

steeltheone
01-06-2013, 05:26 PM
[QUOTE=lloydwoodson;1074553]Wow. Just wow. First off when have the Steelers missed with their first round pick?

Ziggy Hood and Rashard Mendenhall according to some of you.

Ziggy showed a lot of improvement this year. He made as many plays as Keisel on the other side. The DL on the 2nd best run defense in the NFL is the problem on the team? Really? Heyward put up half as many tackles as Keisel in under a quarter the amount of playing time and he is a 1st round bust??? The first year Heyward starts I want you to remember you called him a bust.

Worilds contributed 5 sacks in a backup role. He is a miss because he isn't starting over former DPOY Harrison? The Steelers do have the talent they just aren't playing it. Just like Keenan Lewis and Cortez Allen sat behind Will Gay.[/QUOTE Ziggy is a favorite bitch slap boy of the message boards and it does not seem fair. He has played just fine.

pittpete
01-06-2013, 05:41 PM
Ziggy showed a lot of improvement this year?
Really don't know how that can be said from watching the games.
Remember the KC game?
The beginning of the year all teams did was run at Ziggy.
For a 1st round pick in his 3rd year he hasn't lived up to the pick IMO

steelerchad
01-06-2013, 05:52 PM
They need to get back to the Steeler Way. You get old and aren't living up to your contract, you're gone. This includes Troy and Harrison. Mostly dead weight for the last 2 seasons. Either big pay cuts or be cut.

steeltheone
01-06-2013, 05:59 PM
Ziggy showed a lot of improvement this year?
Really don't know how that can be said from watching the games.
Remember the KC game?
The beginning of the year all teams did was run at Ziggy.
For a 1st round pick in his 3rd year he hasn't lived up to the pick IMO

The Defensive run game has been pretty consistent the last 7 years and Ziggy's stats are are identical to Keisel who makes 4X more. So im not sure you could say he has been run at or failed to perform.

lloydwoodson
01-06-2013, 06:04 PM
Ziggy showed a lot of improvement this year?
Really don't know how that can be said from watching the games.
Remember the KC game?
The beginning of the year all teams did was run at Ziggy.
For a 1st round pick in his 3rd year he hasn't lived up to the pick IMO

The majority of teams run to the strong side a majority of the time (just ask Arians). Usually the better guard is on the left side protecting the QB's blind side and is a better puller. The LG pulls to the right side which is overloaded with a TE.

LE is going to be run at more than RE.

Ziggy is a good player. He is a tireless worker who put on a lot of muscle last offseason and will continue to get better year after year. Ziggy is in a poor system for his play style as people have mentioned over and over - he is doing his absolute best. Great pick of a great character player who produces imo.

Timmons has been good for the last 3 years: 2010 135 tackles 3 sacks 2 ints 2 FF

^^^ People were still calling him a bust even before this year started. Why? Because he struggled playing 3 different positions in 2011. Timmons should be a 2-time Probowler but getting no love and no hype from Steelers Nation isn't going to get him there.

Not sure why every 1st rounder is supposed to be the best at their position from year 1 in your minds but that is wrong.

lloydwoodson
01-06-2013, 06:12 PM
They need to get back to the Steeler Way. You get old and aren't living up to your contract, you're gone. This includes Troy and Harrison. Mostly dead weight for the last 2 seasons. Either big pay cuts or be cut.

^^^ Boo this man! Boooooo!

Harrison had 9 sacks in 11 games last season. That is hardly dead weight. He had 5 sacks in his last 7 games- it took Harrison a long time to come back from his injuries. Harrison is 34 years old and is producing in spite of multiple back and knee surgeries and is dead weight?

Is it a coincidence that the defense played well "down the stretch" when Harrison started producing and Troy came back?

Yes Troy and Debo need to renegotiate to help the team but the "what have you done lately" attitude of some fans gets old fast.

DanRooney
01-06-2013, 06:16 PM
-Evander was a horrible pick for a 3-4 defense. Never liked the pick and still don't. Not a very good pick but at least he was the last pick in the first round. Not a good fit for our team.

-I was never a Worilds fan and think he was overrated as a prospect at Vtech. He can't hold Harrison's jock.

-Woodley was way overpaid. I was never sold on him being an elite OLB. Without Harrison he's average.

That's a summary of why our defense is falling apart.

Why it's not a complete loss:

Timmons is a monster. He just needs another athletic linebacker next to him so he can have flexibility regarding rushing or dropping back. Hopefully the undersized Sean Spence will live up to the hype.

Keenan Lewis/Cortez have shown flashes of becoming a decent corners. Nothing elite but good enough.

Will Allen has done a pretty good job of taking over for Polamalu.

Ryan Clark still has it.


Our #1 priorities in the draft are OLB/ILB or a 1st round corner/safety.

DanRooney
01-06-2013, 06:17 PM
Give Heyward time. He's going to be money but unfortunately we don't want to give up on Hood and Keisel has been playing very well the past two seasons.

steelerchad
01-06-2013, 06:25 PM
^^^ Boo this man! Boooooo!

Harrison had 9 sacks in 11 games last season. That is hardly dead weight. He had 5 sacks in his last 7 games- it took Harrison a long time to come back from his injuries. Harrison is 34 years old and is producing in spite of multiple back and knee surgeries and is dead weight?

Is it a coincidence that the defense played well "down the stretch" when Harrison started producing and Troy came back?

Yes Troy and Debo need to renegotiate to help the team but the "what have you done lately" attitude of some fans gets old fast.


I just don't trust that Harrison at age 35, coming off his knee and back injuries, will be able to live up to his last year of his contract, which goes up to a $7M base next season. He was mostly invisible this year. Troy has been the dead weight for 2 seasons now.

These used to be our guys that put pressure and forced the other teams into turnovers, which made them worth every penny. Now, not so much. Our D has forced the least amount of TO's in the league the last 2 years and the injuries and lack of production from these 2 guys can be directly attributed to it.

They are being paid like stars and not performing at that level. I realize it's injury related, but that's the business side of it. The Steelers parted ways with Woodson, Porter, Lloyd, and many other star defensive players, because in the end it is all about what have you done for me lately. Wish it wasn't this way, but with 47 man rosters and a tight salary cap you can't carry guys.

Lastly, down the stretch that defense didn't look that good against the Chargers or the Cowboys. They did look good against the Bengals and the Browns 3rd string QB though.

lloydwoodson
01-06-2013, 06:29 PM
-Woodley was way overpaid. I was never sold on him being an elite OLB. Without Harrison he's average.

Why it's not a complete loss:

Timmons is a monster. He just needs another athletic linebacker next to him so he can have flexibility regarding rushing or dropping back.

Would you have said that Woodley is not elite after he got 9 sacks in 11 games last year? Would you have said Timmons was a monster after last year when his production dropped by 40 tackles from the previous season?

Looks to me like you're mostly reading the stat sheet at the end of season to determine player value.

Teams run to the right vs the left about 80/20. Teams run at Ziggy / LE based on their own personnel not the personnel of other teams. If Keisel was better against the run than Ziggy he would be playing LE. Period.

DanRooney
01-06-2013, 06:45 PM
Would you have said that Woodley is not elite after he got 9 sacks in 11 games last year? Would you have said Timmons was a monster after last year when his production dropped by 40 tackles from the previous season?

Looks to me like you're mostly reading the stat sheet at the end of season to determine player value.

Teams run to the right vs the left about 80/20. Teams run at Ziggy / LE based on their own personnel not the personnel of other teams. If Keisel was better against the run than Ziggy he would be playing LE. Period.

I actually did. I was on the board with Still Mill when he called him a 'dong sack' artist (now he can't even get those). I got hell for it from this board too if you go back.

I've always been a fan of Timmons from day 1.

austinfrench76
01-06-2013, 06:46 PM
Just remember that age is an ASSET in this defense. You have to know your job and that's the most important thing. Troy didn't even start his rooke year. It's about assignment football and if you miss an assignment it hurts others. So displacing a 35 yr old lineman or sacks aren't the only measure of greatness in a 3-4. Look at Aaron Smith. His "stats" never toild a great story but he is regarded as one of the best DE's to ever play the 3-4. At leats his is by his teammates! Ziggy is fine, Heyward is a beast and Woodley underperformed. Truth.

lloydwoodson
01-06-2013, 06:47 PM
Why is every thread turning into a "bash the players" thread?

This is why I am trying to get Steelers fans to hold Ben accountable. So far not so lucky.

Bash all the players on the defense except Clark, Timmons and Keisel.

A defense that was 1st against the pass and 2nd against the run.

"Fire Lebeau" and "Fire Haley" threads pop up. RBs need to go, the OL needs to go, Wallace and Mendedhall need to go. (Brown screwed up as much as Wallace but he's a hero for not holding out).

Meanwhile the QB of the 22nd ranked offense, who counts more against the cap than P Manning, Brees or Rodgers next year, who has consistently been surrounded with more talent gets no blame for HIS offense's mediocre performance, and is held as the savior of the franchise.

DanRooney
01-06-2013, 06:47 PM
I don't think it's any surprise that KC ran right at Woodley and Ziggy with success. I'd want nothing to do with Harrison and Keisel.

Steelers5895
01-06-2013, 07:00 PM
Why is every thread turning into a "bash the players" thread?

This is why I am trying to get Steelers fans to hold Ben accountable. So far not so lucky.

Bash all the players on the defense except Clark, Timmons and Keisel.

A defense that was 1st against the pass and 2nd against the run.

"Fire Lebeau" and "Fire Haley" threads pop up. RBs need to go, the OL needs to go, Wallace and Mendedhall need to go. (Brown screwed up as much as Wallace but he's a hero for not holding out).

Meanwhile the QB of the 22nd ranked offense, who counts more against the cap than P Manning, Brees or Rodgers next year, who has consistently been surrounded with more talent gets no blame for HIS offense's mediocre performance, and is held as the savior of the franchise.

Don't let our rank fool you. 10 interceptions and ranked bottom 5 on the league in turnovers us what I look at. New England patriots were ranked in the bottom 10 in overall defense but were + 30 or more in turnover ratio.

I'd take that over a top rated defense that doesn't turn the ball over, doesn't pressure the qb, and allowed Tennessee , Oakland , Denver and Cincy to come back and win last minute on them.

Steelers5895
01-06-2013, 07:02 PM
Not bashing players. Calling it as I see it. Our youth is either not living up to their draft position and we maybe had a handful of gems in later rounds. Add the aging if our key players, proven inability to hit in round 1 and no cap space i am not sure how we expect to improve.

lloydwoodson
01-06-2013, 07:11 PM
I actually did. I was on the board with Still Mill when he called him a 'dong sack' artist (now he can't even get those). I got hell for it from this board too if you go back.

I've always been a fan of Timmons from day 1.

"Woodley is overrated in terms of getting to the quarterback. He needs to be more consistent to become a top LBer in the league. He's way too streaky. It would help if he learned how to do something other than the bullrush when he rushes." --- Dan Rooney after loss to Denver last year.

Rooney, you also criticized Worilds around that time.

Your story checks out. Excellent job of player evaluation. My hat is off to you, Sir.

:hatsoff:

lloydwoodson
01-06-2013, 07:25 PM
Don't let our rank fool you. 10 interceptions and ranked bottom 5 on the league in turnovers us what I look at. New England patriots were ranked in the bottom 10 in overall defense but were + 30 or more in turnover ratio.

I'd take that over a top rated defense that doesn't turn the ball over, doesn't pressure the qb, and allowed Tennessee , Oakland , Denver and Cincy to come back and win last minute on them.

Just because the defense ends the other team's drive with a late punt rather than a turnover doesn't mean it is a bad defense- it just means the offense is going to have to work harder to score on a longer drive. No it is not the 2008 or 2010 defense.

Steelers defense is inarguably a top 5 defense.

Steelers offense is inarguably mediocre.