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View Full Version : Good video on Haley and Ben's problems


The_Joker
01-13-2013, 11:32 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1pzeekEOuU

Those two need to get over themselves and work together for the team next year. I've seen fingers pointed at both of those two, and you know what? It's both of their damn faults.

We need a damn RB too.

:mad:

EbonySteel86
01-13-2013, 11:41 AM
He said the Steelers need to run the ball because if they don't, they don't succeed...but then he said, why did the Steelers get rid of Arians. Huh????

The_Joker
01-13-2013, 11:43 AM
He said the Steelers need to run the ball because if they don't, they don't succeed...but then he said, why did the Steelers get rid of Arians. Huh????

He also said we can't. Arians never had a back to work with. I supported getting rid of Arians, but he threw so much because we never had a back to work with. It's a big mess really.

Edman
01-13-2013, 01:06 PM
He also said we can't. Arians never had a back to work with. I supported getting rid of Arians, but he threw so much because we never had a back to work with. It's a big mess really.

Bruce Arians had Willie Parker and Rashard Mendenhall. But still opted for throwing the ball a lot anyway. Arians didn't respect the merits of a complimentary running game.

The_Joker
01-13-2013, 01:09 PM
Bruce Arians had Willie Parker and Rashard Mendenhall. But still opted for throwing the ball a lot anyway. Arians didn't respect the merits of a complimentary running game.

Mendenhall is an egghead and poor Willie had his legs run off.

GoFor7
01-13-2013, 01:13 PM
The Steelers actually got better yardage on the ground under Arians than they did under Haley.

Edman
01-13-2013, 01:16 PM
The Steelers actually got better yardage on the ground under Arians than they did under Haley.

Five years of work versus one season installing a new offense. Yeah, Haley sucks.

I think there ought to be another year of two before denoting Haley a failure.

SteelersCanada
01-13-2013, 01:19 PM
I think Stephen was overdue for a somewhat logical thing to say and it came out when he was talking about the Steelers.

fer522
01-13-2013, 01:19 PM
If Ben doesn't get hurt we would have ended up being #1 in our division and Ben would have had a career year AND that "HOWEVA" guy wouldn't be saying shit :noidea:

GoFor7
01-13-2013, 01:22 PM
Five years of work versus one season installing a new offense. Yeah, Haley sucks.

I think there ought to be another year of two before denoting Haley a failure.

Then maybe a "new" offense wasn't needed. Maybe the old offense just needed to be tweaked.

The_Joker
01-13-2013, 01:33 PM
Then maybe a "new" offense wasn't needed. Maybe the old offense just needed to be tweaked.

Perhaps it did. But it's to late to go back now.

Gnutella
01-13-2013, 03:52 PM
Then maybe a "new" offense wasn't needed. Maybe the old offense just needed to be tweaked.

The old offense never was tweaked, which is exactly why the old offensive coordinator is gone.

By the way, I have faith that the new offensive coordinator will tweak his offense.

harrison'samonster
01-13-2013, 03:56 PM
The old offense never was tweaked, which is exactly why the old offensive coordinator is gone.

By the way, I have faith that the new offensive coordinator will tweak his offense.

great points. Haley's offense is still a work in progress. If he's still with the team next year, I look forward to seeing what they do to make themselves better.

VictoryFormation
01-13-2013, 04:54 PM
The reason Roethlisberger was injured in the Kansas City game was because, for some odd reason, they abandoned the run, leaving Roethlisberger to try and make plays with a passing attack, designed by Todd Haley, that wasn't working. Not being able to find a receiver left him vulnerable. Too much time, the pocket broke down, and the KC linebacker drilled him.
The problem with the Haley offense was that in the first half of the season it was a balanced attack. In the KC game, Haley suddenly changed the offense, and abandoned the run. If they were going to pass like that, they should have kept Bruce Arians. Arians knew how to employ a high-powered passing game, and spread the defense.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
01-13-2013, 05:00 PM
I don't take any thing that Steven A smith says seriously or even that whole show. First take is a joke.

The whole show is set up to what the two disagree on, blow it out of proportion, the characters are over the top to bring in viewers

This video isn't about the steelers but its an awesome video to show how dumb first take and the hosts. I can't watch it anymore there is no useful knowledge.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hv2jqFd2-qI

If you have time there is the full clip on YouTube about 18min

Hawaii 5-0
01-13-2013, 05:08 PM
Then maybe a "new" offense wasn't needed. Maybe the old offense just needed to be tweaked.

Arians was too damn stubborn to "tweak" it, maybe if he had he would still be our OC.

GoFor7
01-13-2013, 05:11 PM
Arians was too damn stubborn to "tweak" it, maybe if he had he would still be our OC.

I won't argue that. But did the next OC have to burn it down and start from scratch rather than keep what did work and improve the shortcomings?

FrancoLambert
01-13-2013, 07:32 PM
I won't argue that. But did the next OC have to burn it down and start from scratch rather than keep what did work and improve the shortcomings?

It doesn't make sense but that's what new coordinators seem to do.
They put their system in and voila.....things will be better.

Smith is right on one thing; we still need O-line help.
Can't run or pass without one.

Steel Peon
01-13-2013, 08:20 PM
That video = :poop:. Ben was not out of sync all year, he only looked bad at the end. This ANALysis was totally out of his ass.

teegre
01-13-2013, 08:48 PM
That video = :poop:. Ben was not out of sync all year, he only looked bad at the end. This ANALysis was totally out of his ass.

That is NOT analysis; that is the epitome of OPINION... and theatrics.

Fire Arians
01-13-2013, 09:07 PM
ben getting injured and coming back not 100% killed the season. and having no running game due to injuries on the o-line.

i thought haley's offense looked great until the above happened. he was doing a great job

harrison'samonster
01-13-2013, 09:10 PM
ben getting injured and coming back not 100% killed the season. and having no running game due to injuries on the o-line.

i thought haley's offense looked great until the above happened. he was doing a great job

I completely agree. And all this Haley Vs. Ben is just the media trying to make a story out of nothing.

lloydwoodson
01-14-2013, 04:06 AM
He also said we can't. Arians never had a back to work with. I supported getting rid of Arians, but he threw so much because we never had a back to work with. It's a big mess really.

Arians had FWP and Mendenhall. Never had a back to work with? Wow.

Arians got rid of the power running game. The David Johnson experiment was a failure. DJ whiffed on more blocks than any player I can remember outside of Sean Mahan.

Arians and Tomlin both went with the "draft weapons for Ben don't worry about an OL" philosophy that has resulted in the inability to run the football.

Mendenhall claimed they hardly ever practiced running the ball and wanted a good lead blocker. Now Will Johnson has taken over for David Johnson and the kid has potential. Another reason I like Haley.

You could say Haley has not had a back to work with since Mendenhall was injured- but don't say a thousand yard feature back like Mendenhall is "nothing to work with."

lloydwoodson
01-14-2013, 04:09 AM
I completely agree. And all this Haley Vs. Ben is just the media trying to make a story out of nothing.

It's interesting you say this because Marshall Faulk said exactly the opposite.

Faulk said that players calling out their coaches is usually reserved for primadonna receivers like TO and he can't believe the media isn't jumping on Roethlisberger for criticising Haley to the press.

lloydwoodson
01-14-2013, 04:33 AM
Arians was too damn stubborn to "tweak" it, maybe if he had he would still be our OC.

Finally someone who puts Arians departure on Arians. If Arians had produced a top 10 offense he would still have his job. His failure to produce a consistent, effective offense is why he was "forced into retirement."

If Roethlisberger had come into camp in shape, and stayed out of trouble off the field Arians would still be there. Roethlisberger was an undisciplined mess under Arians. If Roethlisberger was a qb who did not need a babysitter the Steelers would not have hired a babysitter to watch him.

plenewken
01-14-2013, 07:14 AM
If Ben doesn't get hurt we would have ended up being #1 in our division

"In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king"

harrison'samonster
01-14-2013, 07:38 AM
It's interesting you say this because Marshall Faulk said exactly the opposite.

Faulk said that players calling out their coaches is usually reserved for primadonna receivers like TO and he can't believe the media isn't jumping on Roethlisberger for criticising Haley to the press.

again, that's just media ppl taking the situation out of perspective. I haven't seen any reason to believe that Ben and Haley have serious problems with one another.

FanSince72
01-14-2013, 08:06 AM
Bruce Arians had Willie Parker and Rashard Mendenhall. But still opted for throwing the ball a lot anyway. Arians didn't respect the merits of a complimentary running game.

And neither Parker nor Mendenhall are power running backs like Bettis so Arians went in another direction. I think BA "respected" a running game just as any other OC would but without a big back it's hard to HAVE that running game. So, since Ben was a prolific passer and the team had a decent stable of receivers, BA played the hand he was dealt and went more in the direction of a passing game.

And no, I'm not "apologizing", I'm just recognizing the reality of the situation. You can't use a sports car to do work that requires a truck.

lloydwoodson
01-14-2013, 09:48 AM
And neither Parker nor Mendenhall are power running backs like Bettis so Arians went in another direction. I think BA "respected" a running game just as any other OC would but without a big back it's hard to HAVE that running game. So, since Ben was a prolific passer and the team had a decent stable of receivers, BA played the hand he was dealt and went more in the direction of a passing game.

And no, I'm not "apologizing", I'm just recognizing the reality of the situation. You can't use a sports car to do work that requires a truck.

Bettis' last 1000 yard season was in 2001. I'm not sure how he has any relevance in discussing Arians inability to run the ball. FWP would likely have led the league in rushing if he hadn't broken his leg in 2007. FWP was a helluva RB in his own right.

You get farther in a sports car than you do in a truck. :flap:

Mendenhall was the main back during Arians era but for all the love he gets you would think he was a 500 yard rusher and the worst back in the league. :banging:

FanSince72
01-14-2013, 10:43 AM
Bettis' last 1000 yard season was in 2001. I'm not sure how he has any relevance in discussing Arians inability to run the ball. FWP would likely have led the league in rushing if he hadn't broken his leg in 2007. FWP was a helluva RB in his own right.

You get farther in a sports car than you do in a truck. :flap:

Mendenhall was the main back during Arians era but for all the love he gets you would think he was a 500 yard rusher and the worst back in the league. :banging:

Because he wasn't a power back.

How many times did Mendenhall get stuffed at the line of scrimmage versus how many times he ran for miles when he got outside?

Mendenhall would be great in a spread offense, or a West Coast offense or whatever you'd want to call an offense that doesn't depend upon a big runner gaining significant yardage by running between the tackles.

But after years of "Steeler Football" which featured big tailbacks with a fullback blocking, we suddenly found ourselves with lighter-weight backs as well as a perpetually injured O-line and neither of those makes for any kind of consistent power running game.

So what's the alternative?

Passing.

Or more specifically a pass-first offense that sets up the run and the runs it sets up are primarily outside runs and I think that's what BA was trying to do -- particularly when you have someone like Ben as the passer.
But a team like the Steelers, which has relied on a power running game for decades being asked to change gears to become a passing team isn't something that can be done in a season or two. Even if we had the personnel, the philosophy itself had to be changed and that comes from the Front Office and then trickles down to the team itself. But it's pretty obvious that the FO wasn't comfortable with it and as such they never really made a true effort to recruit the players to make it work. In the back of their minds, they still had this vision of "Steeler Football" and that vision didn't include a big time passing offense, so the best we could hope for was some sort of half-assed hybrid.

Look at the teams remaining in tjhe playoffs. All of them have good running games but can any of them - including the Ravens - really be called a running team? I don't think so. I also don't think of them as passing teams either but rather teams that have adapted to the modern game and who use running or passing to set up both as needed which is something that we can't seem to get a handle on. I think that BA tried, but he was bucking tradition and never really got the commitment from the FO that he needed.

All I know is that if the Steelers are going to be successful into the future, we can't "Be" just one thing but rather need to be able to morph into what we need to be when we need to do so and we're nowhere near that right now. Belichick recognized that years ago and as a result, the Pats defiy description because they the ability to adjust to any situation and that's the main reason why they've been so consistently successful for so long.

The days of "Imposing One's Will" against other teams are over and the sooner we realize that the better.

Rotorhead
01-14-2013, 12:30 PM
Passing league huh, so minnesota is a pass first team? Denver lost their RB in the first half and lost, no its not just a passing league. A team can still be successful running the ball. As long as they execute and stop making stupid mistakes. If the Steelers would have eliminated half the stupid mistakes (dropped passes, fumble fest, ST gaffs) we would have won the division. That is leadership, both players and coaches, other than injuries, that was the steelers downfall.

Fire Arians
01-14-2013, 01:25 PM
green bay also started to struggle on offense when SF started shutting down their running game. the run game will NEVER be obsolete in the NFL

even in a lot of these "pass-first" offenses, a lot of people overlook what kind of job the running backs did. the most prolific passing game of all time (the rams in the early 2000s), the biggest reason why it was so successful was because defenses had to respect the run game (faulk)

rarely ever will you find a very good offense that doesn't at least have a respectable running game, you can not be 1 dimensional in the NFL and expect to win games.

Ricco Suavez
01-14-2013, 02:54 PM
I will make a few points about ours or for that matter any teams offense. First it's a QB driven league, and we have a very good QB in Big Ben, the offense should go through him first. Second, a productive running game or at the very least a running game that can pick up short yardage downs are a QB's best friend. Third, offenses can only do so much in the face of penalties and turnovers, ST shortcomings, and bad starting field position. Lastly and this is for the Steelers mostly, we have to get away from the mentality of leaving it to the defense to secure wins, score and score often should be our new motto. Our defense while statistically #1 in most categories should not be dependent on holding leads every time or for that matter having our QB direct a fourth quarter comeback. We need to put our foot on opponents throats and put them away. I have warned many times that the Steeler ways is not scoring a bunch of points and has not been for some time, yet we do not have the type team to grind out wins with power and defense like Cowhers teams did so successfully. This team needs a new identity and it needs to find it soon.

GoFor7
01-14-2013, 03:25 PM
The teams that are running the ball successfully aren't using it as an excuse to sit on it and try to play ball control. They still try to score. That's the difference between those teams and the Steelers.

Edman
01-14-2013, 05:47 PM
green bay also started to struggle on offense when SF started shutting down their running game. the run game will NEVER be obsolete in the NFL

even in a lot of these "pass-first" offenses, a lot of people overlook what kind of job the running backs did. the most prolific passing game of all time (the rams in the early 2000s), the biggest reason why it was so successful was because defenses had to respect the run game (faulk)

rarely ever will you find a very good offense that doesn't at least have a respectable running game, you can not be 1 dimensional in the NFL and expect to win games.

That's what has been killing the Steelers Offense over the past couple years. Ben and Arians fell in love with the passing game so much they virtually neglected the concept and merit of a solid complimentary running game.

Like Stephen A. said, the 70's Steelers were not all Bradshaw to Swann & Stallworth, they had Franco and Rocky in the backfield as well.

The 2005 Steelers. People say that team doesn't win if the Steelers don't unleash Ben in the postseason, and that's true, but here's the idea. The Steelers were a widely respected rushing team. Their Running Game was FEARED. Opponents had to account for it. Opponents were EXPECTING them to run. Ben doesn't have the degree of success he has without the respect of the running game.

Steel Peon
01-14-2013, 06:48 PM
FWP would likely have led the league in rushing if he hadn't broken his leg in 2007. FWP was a helluva RB in his own right.

Agreed, he earned every damn yard he got that year, because there were zero point shit (0.:poop:) holes for him to run through in '07, and pretty much every year following. Whisenhunt knew a guy like FWP needed a well designed run play to spring him, and concentrated a lot of effort in that area. You could tell immediately that Arians was not able to design effective run plays, and as a result Willie got pounded until he broke his leg.

So......what happens when you insert someone similar to Willie into that offense?
How many times did Mendenhall get stuffed at the line of scrimmage versus how many times he ran for miles when he got outside?

Same result, except Mendy didn't seem to have the instincts or speed that FWP had. I honestly think that any OC with half a brain can come up with the offense that Arians did, and Haley could actually bring back some stellar running to this team, as soon as our O-linemen stop dropping like flies.

steelfury02
01-15-2013, 09:07 AM
That's what has been killing the Steelers Offense over the past couple years. Ben and Arians fell in love with the passing game so much they virtually neglected the concept and merit of a solid complimentary running game.

Like Stephen A. said, the 70's Steelers were not all Bradshaw to Swann & Stallworth, they had Franco and Rocky in the backfield as well.

The 2005 Steelers. People say that team doesn't win if the Steelers don't unleash Ben in the postseason, and that's true, but here's the idea. The Steelers were a widely respected rushing team. Their Running Game was FEARED. Opponents had to account for it. Opponents were EXPECTING them to run. Ben doesn't have the degree of success he has without the respect of the running game.

That 2005 XL team was the biggest example of "Ace up the sleeve" I have ever witnessed.All the talking heads and all the other teams were pointing to Jerome's day against the Bears where he trampled Urlacher and said the Steelers were bullies and that no one would want to face them come playoff times - they were going to run it right down your throat, play great defense, and you MIGHT see the ball after they get a 10 point lead. Then . . .out comes Roethlisberger letting that sucker rip and completely taking every single team off guard. The O's plan and execution, along with the element of surprise and trickery won Whiz that HC job. Very masterful plan. We will never have a situation like that again, but, we need a running game that softens things up and gets guys playing up on the line more often.

SH-Rock
01-15-2013, 09:31 AM
Looking at this years patriots. I'd say it's prob their best offense to date only because it's not one dimensional anymore. Everything is not on Brady any more and even with key players being injured (Hernandez earlier in the year and Gronkowski now) they are still lighting it up with Ridley.