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View Full Version : 2013 Draft: Maybe it needs to be about offense instead of defense


GoFor7
01-13-2013, 06:10 PM
Anybody notice how the seemingly "great" defenses are giving up a lot of points in the playoffs? We've seen final scores of 38-35, 45-31, and 30-28. Wallace and Mendenhall are likely gone, as are Starks and at least one of Colon or Foster. Heath Miller may not be ready for the start of the 2013 season. For a team that needs more from its offense, that unit won't exactly be put into a position to succeed next season if this upcoming draft is mostly about defense.

I won't be disappointed if the Steelers draft a pass-rushing OLB in one of the higher rounds, but this team will desperately need at least a TE, RB, a tall WR, and maybe even another OG above any other defensive position. Resigning Plax also needs to be an option for depth.

teegre
01-13-2013, 06:32 PM
I hear what you're saying. Overload one side of the ball. It's clever.

Let me counter with a few thoughts.

1. Resign Wallace. He had a bad year... and was still good. If he's resigned, then no need for a WR.

2. Heath's injury made TE a need. But, Paulson looks like a good #2 (pass catcher, but not blocker). Maybe a third TE, to replace Pope.

3. I'm not a fan of taking a RB early. It's a weak draft at the top... but, a deep draft. I'd add a RB to compete... but, honestly, I'm not sure any RB not drafted would be better than what the Steelers already have. Maybe a rookie "could" be better, but maybe not; no one blows me away in this draft.

I say draft Lattimore, IR him until week 7, and then insert him into the line-up.

4. The one area where the Steelers could upgrade is LG (Warmack, Cooper, Barrett Jones). That would help ANY RB. That said, I think that they go with Beachum (or Foster).

5. DEFENSE
The Steelers could be a smothering type of defense, if they add a few parts.

The secondary was great, and adding a young S will only make it better.

Troy had his "injured season" this season; next season is his healthy season. (He alternates seasons.)

Harrison was coming on at the end. Adding a young OLB (rotating with Harrison) will help keep him fresh.

Woodley will get a kick in his butt, and come back to his 12-sack form for next season.

McClendon will get a chance to start. And, Heyward will rotate.

Lastly, Spence should be an upgrade.

SUMMATION:
If it were somewhere in between, here's what I would propose.

R1: S
R2: OLB
R3: WR (tall)
R4: RB (Lattimore)
R5: TE

SteelersCanada
01-13-2013, 06:37 PM
R1. Dion Jordan
R2. Robert Woods / Giovani Bernard
R3. Nico Johnson
R4. Robert Lester

All we need is a RB and we're fine. Delanie Walker and Martellus Bennett are both UFA's and won't command top dollar as a stop-gap TE.

casteeler
01-13-2013, 06:57 PM
Rd 1- RB
Rd 2- LB
Rd 3- TE/Backup QB (if the Steelers cannot acquire one through trade)
Rd 4 -SS
Rd-5- WR

WokeUpWithaWoodley
01-13-2013, 06:58 PM
I would have to agree many people including myself wanted a heavy defensive draft. However looking at the teams like you said in the playoffs they all can put up points in bunches.

And looking at our defense without our older stars Harrison Hampton foote Troy and Clark and ill add dabread we have a lineup that looks like

Safety- Robert golden a guy the organization likes. No one really after him
Corner- ike( few more years) lewis( I believe we resign him), Allen, brown
Olb- Woolley, worlds( led our team in sacks till last game with limited time), not much after them
Ilb- Timmons, spence, slyvester
De- heyward, hood, fangupo, woods
Nt- McClendon, Taamu

Starters lineup you would have.
Safeties- golden, other spot?
Cb- Ike, Lewis, Allen brown
Olb- Woodley, worlids
Ilb- Timmons, then spence? Slyvester?
De- hood, heyward
Nt- McClendon

So the only ? That we have that will be pressing needs in a few years will be safety and ilb. And Troy and Clark have at least one year left maybe two based on health. So coming into this draft you have ilb concern. And just depth everyone else.

So I can agree that this draft can be heavy on offense and I wouldn't mind it.

The oline could always use a upgrade and warmack or cooper would be nice even Ben jones
Wr- I think Wallace will be gone to much money he wants and doesn't fit in Haley's system, so I think a high draft pick there. Sanders is best as a slot so we need a guy opposite brown
Rb- need a upgrade we have backups on our team
Te- Heath has a major injury and having good te is a must in the league now

We need help on both sides but offense may be the most pressing need

teegre
01-13-2013, 07:01 PM
R1. Dion Jordan
R2. Robert Woods / Giovani Bernard
R3. Nico Johnson
R4. Robert Lester

All we need is a RB and we're fine. Delanie Walker and Martellus Bennett are both UFA's and won't command top dollar as a stop-gap TE.

That draft was a consensus w/ Gofor7. My draft is/has been some mixture of these three positions: S, OLB, ILB... (followed by Lattimore or another S, or a CB...).

We agree (S, OLB, ILB), although, you have those as three of the first four picks, and I see those as the first three picks.

Q: You have wanted a R2 WR. Are you now thinking/suggesting swapping that pick for a RB?

GoFor7
01-13-2013, 07:11 PM
Let me counter with a few thoughts.

1. Resign Wallace. He had a bad year... and was still good. If he's resigned, then no need for a WR.

I would like to see them resign Wallace, although realistically I'm not getting my hopes up. Even if he resigns, can the Steelers afford to keep Sanders too? Might need to start thinking future with a tall WR.

2. Heath's injury made TE a need. But, Paulson looks like a good #2 (pass catcher, but not blocker). Maybe a third TE, to replace Pope.

Paulson is at best a backup. The Steelers need to start thinking about getting a TE with enough pedigree that could someday replace Heath as #1.

3. I'm not a fan of taking a RB early. It's a weak draft at the top... but, a deep draft. I'd add a RB to compete... but, honestly, I'm not sure any RB not drafted would be better than what the Steelers already have. Maybe a rookie "could" be better, but maybe not; no one blows me away in this draft.

I wouldn't draft an RB any higher than the third round. Even then, that RB could have better pedigree than Dwyer and Redman


4. The one area where the Steelers could upgrade is LG (Warmack, Cooper, Barrett Jones). That would help ANY RB. That said, I think that they go with Beachum (or Foster).

If they're serious about protecting Ben, then they need to do better than Beachum.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
01-13-2013, 07:14 PM
I don't think olb is going to be our first round pick. It's not a pressing need as everyone thinks. Woodley had a bad year and should come back strong next year he will be a steeler for years. Harrison will be back one more healthy year then he is done. And Jason worlids showed his ability this year in very limited time and coming of wrist surgery, I believe he will be a good olb the verdit is out on him and he will be given one more maybe two to show his worth. So I don't think olb is such a pressing need to pick someone in the first one and I don't believe any olb that is worth a first round pick will be there at 17.

PhantomJB93
01-13-2013, 07:14 PM
As long as the first pick is a OLB, ILB, S, or WR I'll be fine with it. No RBs worth taking in the first and we have the personnel at OL to have a good one. I wouldn't necessarily be upset with a WR but we could still get a good one in the second if we wanted. TE isn't something worth addressing in the first yet and QB obviously no. This isn't a great year to take offense in the first round.

We definitely need a RB in the first three rounds though and we could use another receiver if Wallace leaves.

Hawaii 5-0
01-13-2013, 07:43 PM
our defense is a helluva lot older than our offense though...

GoFor7
01-13-2013, 07:45 PM
our defense is a helluva lot older than our offense though...

But the offense might be more shorthanded than the defense.

It's a hard choice, but when you look at the direction the NFL is going, especially in these playoffs, going with offense is the better choice.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
01-13-2013, 07:48 PM
our defense is a helluva lot older than our offense though...

Yeah but we have backups in place to take over.
Hampton-McClendon
Harrison-worilds
Keisel- heyward
Foote-although they are question marks there is spence and slyvester
Troy Clark-golden?

They only real concern is safety and possibly ilb.

teegre
01-13-2013, 08:00 PM
our defense is a helluva lot older than our offense though...

I hear you on that.

But... to play devil's advocate.

McClendon, Hood, Heyward : young, young, young.

Harrison, Timmons, Spence, Woodley: OLD, young, young, fat.

Ike, Keenan, Cortez: OLD, young, young.

Troy, Clark: OLD, OLD

SUMMATION:
Harrison, Troy, & Clark need replacements. Ike's replacement is either Keenan or Cortez, with a nickel-back needed (R4-7). Spence and McClendon are question marks, but my hopes are high (although, I'd still like an ILB drafted high, to compete with Spence).

Thus... if a S and an OLB are drafted, I'd concede the ILB pick, in favor of an offensive player.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
01-13-2013, 08:07 PM
I hear you on that.

But... to play devil's advocate.

McClendon, Hood, Heyward : young, young, young.

Harrison, Timmons, Spence, Woodley: OLD, young, young, fat.

Ike, Keenan, Cortez: OLD, young, young.

Troy, Clark: OLD, OLD

SUMMATION:
Harrison, Troy, & Clark need replacements. Ike's replacement is either Keenan or Cortez, with a nickel-back needed (R4-7). Spence and McClendon are question marks, but my hopes are high (although, I'd still like an ILB drafted high, to compete with Spence).

Thus... if a S and an OLB are drafted, I'd concede the ILB pick, in favor of an offensive player.

Jason worlids is Harrison replacement

Hawaii 5-0
01-13-2013, 08:10 PM
Harrison, Timmons, Spence, Woodley: OLD, young, young, fat.



:chuckle:

SteelersCanada
01-13-2013, 08:25 PM
Q: You have wanted a R2 WR. Are you now thinking/suggesting swapping that pick for a RB?

It depends on who's available. If Bernard is on the board then we have to take him, but that's the only scenario in which we don't take a WR in the second round.

teegre
01-13-2013, 08:29 PM
Jason worlids is Harrison replacement

Admittedly, Worilds impressed me as a rookie. He even had six sacks this past season, in limited duty. I get where you are coming from: "Go with Worilds, and use a draft pick elsewhere." I get it.

BUT... he just doesn't seem like he has "it."

The very first time that I saw Greg Lloyd, I was like, "Who the eff is that!?!"

The first pre-season that I saw Joey Porter, I was like, "We got a GOOD one!!!"

Even as a back-up, when I saw James Haarison,, I was like, "This guy needs to play more!!!"

With Worilds (& Carter)... I've liked what I've seen, but I also liked Clark Haggans.

Make sense?

Gnutella
01-13-2013, 08:32 PM
The Steelers need a WR who's not just tall. Mike Wallace is tall, but he's a wimp too. They need a tough WR with a build like Calvin Johnson, Vincent Jackson or Torrey Smith, who can not only blow the top off a defense, but also make plays in traffic and fight for the ball for a change.

rich4eagle
01-13-2013, 08:53 PM
Anybody notice how the seemingly "great" defenses are giving up a lot of points in the playoffs? We've seen final scores of 38-35, 45-31, and 30-28. Wallace and Mendenhall are likely gone, as are Starks and at least one of Colon or Foster. Heath Miller may not be ready for the start of the 2013 season. For a team that needs more from its offense, that unit won't exactly be put into a position to succeed next season if this upcoming draft is mostly about defense.

I won't be disappointed if the Steelers draft a pass-rushing OLB in one of the higher rounds, but this team will desperately need at least a TE, RB, a tall WR, and maybe even another OG above any other defensive position. Resigning Plax also needs to be an option for depth.

Defense has never been the winner in football. Great defense allows to be competitive but great offense indeed always wins. The Steelers issue now is not defense or offense but inability to execute on offense and inability to allow defense to do its thing. It all goes back to Tomlin and Haley, Haley should be fired now, and Tomlin cannot manage a game. So either get a game manager for Tomlin or boot en both:tt03:

GoFor7
01-13-2013, 09:05 PM
Defense has never been the winner in football. Great defense allows to be competitive but great offense indeed always wins. The Steelers issue now is not defense or offense but inability to execute on offense and inability to allow defense to do its thing. It all goes back to Tomlin and Haley, Haley should be fired now, and Tomlin cannot manage a game. So either get a game manager for Tomlin or boot en both:tt03:

Everybody hyped up the Steelers' defense as being #1 in yards, but as we saw from this season it wasn't enough. The defenses in the playoffs may have given up a lot of yards and points, but they also made splash plays. They got sacks and forced turnovers. Changed field position. They played aggressive. The Steelers defense didn't do that until it was too late. You can't expect the offense to march up the field 80-90 yards on every drive and come away with points.

Look at the last game against Cleveland - the defense gave up a lot of yards, but they forced four turnovers and held the Browns to only 10 points. Isn't that what's most important at the end? Yes I know it's Cleveland and they stink, but the point is it doesn't matter if you're giving up a lot of yards if you're taking the ball away and finding ways to keep the other team off the scoreboard.

SteelersCanada
01-13-2013, 09:37 PM
Matt Miller's take on our draft:

17. Pittsburgh Steelers

The Pick: ILB Manti Te'o, Notre Dame

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/900/362/hi-res-159085676_display_image.jpg?1358100571

How much did Manti Te'o hurt his stock in the National Championship game against Alabama? Not at all.

Those who read this article each week saw Te'o drop to No. 17 overall in our first mock draft after the regular season ended. This is where Te'o's true value is at—between picks No. 15 and No. 25. Not in the top five as may have been suggested earlier in the year.

The Steelers need to get younger and faster on defense, and in a 3-4 scheme Te'o would be a nice asset next to Lawrence Timmons at inside linebacker. Te'o has the quickness to lock down the run between the tackles, and while he doesn't have great speed, he'll be able to cover most tight ends and backs when Timmons isn't asked to.

Te'o to the Steelers won't fill the team's biggest need, but it does give them youth, speed and impact on defense.

2.18—Pittsburgh Steelers

The Pick: FS Tony Jefferson, Oklahoma

http://www.jimthorpeassoc.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Tony-Jefferson-e1350413867610.jpg

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1482995-2013-nfl-mock-draft-latest-projections-after-divisional-playoffs/page/18

steelerchad
01-13-2013, 09:42 PM
If there's a stud TE, the Steelers need to grab him. Heath's injury has me scared he may never come back the same. If he does, great. This league now has room for 2 receiving TE sets.
RB somewhere in the value range.
Safety early. rnds 1-3
OLB in the top 4 rounds.

SteelersCanada
01-13-2013, 09:45 PM
If there's a stud TE, the Steelers need to grab him. Heath's injury has me scared he may never come back the same.

Delanie Walker or Martellus Bennett. Problem solved.

teegre
01-13-2013, 09:47 PM
Everybody hyped up the Steelers' defense as being #1 in yards, but as we saw from this season it wasn't enough. The defenses in the playoffs may have given up a lot of yards and points, but they also made splash plays. They got sacks and forced turnovers. Changed field position. They played aggressive. The Steelers defense didn't do that until it was too late. You can't expect the offense to march up the field 80-90 yards on every drive and come away with points.

Look at the last game against Cleveland - the defense gave up a lot of yards, but they forced four turnovers and held the Browns to only 10 points. Isn't that what's most important at the end? Yes I know it's Cleveland and they stink, but the point is it doesn't matter if you're giving up a lot of yards if you're taking the ball away and finding ways to keep the other team off the scoreboard.

Wait... are you now saying that the defense needs to get some playmakers???

That's a 180... and very un-Gofor7-esque. Usually you stick to your thoughts... and say them over & over. Why the change for needing defensive help???

GoFor7
01-13-2013, 10:22 PM
Wait... are you now saying that the defense needs to get some playmakers???

That's a 180... and very un-Gofor7-esque. Usually you stick to your thoughts... and say them over & over. Why the change for needing defensive help???

I'm saying they need to play more aggressive. In the last two games they did so and created more turnovers.

kent
01-13-2013, 10:35 PM
R1. Dion Jordan
R2. Robert Woods / Giovani Bernard
R3. Nico Johnson
R4. Robert Lester

All we need is a RB and we're fine. Delanie Walker and Martellus Bennett are both UFA's and won't command top dollar as a stop-gap TE.

Bennett would be a hell of a pickup. Him and heath in double TE routes would be nice, similar to the Patriots scheme. Im sure Ben would love it.

teegre
01-13-2013, 10:39 PM
I'm saying they need to play more aggressive. In the last two games they did so and created more turnovers.

Ah, that's right. I remember now... a healthy Harrison & Troy probably had nothing to do with that.

Got it.

So, why draft defense at all? All they need to do is for Josh Victorian to play really aggressively... yes?

SteelersCanada
01-13-2013, 10:43 PM
Bennett would be a hell of a pickup. Him and heath in double TE routes would be nice, similar to the Patriots scheme. Im sure Ben would love it.

That would be amazing. Assuming we draft someone like Robert Woods, too, we could have 5 wide sets and have something like ...

AB - Sanders - Woods - Miller - Bennett

... and have Miller and Martellus running more underneath (for lack of a better term) and 'dink and dunk-ier' routes while AB, Sanders and Woods get open 12 - 20 yards down the field.

Make it happen Tomlin and friends. Make it happen.

kent
01-14-2013, 12:13 AM
That would be amazing. Assuming we draft someone like Robert Woods, too, we could have 5 wide sets and have something like ...

AB - Sanders - Woods - Miller - Bennett

... and have Miller and Martellus running more underneath (for lack of a better term) and 'dink and dunk-ier' routes while AB, Sanders and Woods get open 12 - 20 yards down the field.

Make it happen Tomlin and friends. Make it happen.

Mix all that with a healthy o line and healthy Ben and we're in business! Also, I wouldnt mind seeing Cotchery come back. Hes solid and provides depth and a veteran presence. Someone needs to keep the "young money squad" egos in check. Missing Hines when it comes to that.

PhantomJB93
01-14-2013, 12:15 AM
Delanie Walker or Martellus Bennett. Problem solved.

Yeah our TE problem is something that can be solved through FA or late in the draft. Just because we'll be without Miller for a few weeks doesn't suddenly make TE a top draft priority.

OX1947
01-14-2013, 12:39 AM
Man, if there was a year to have 2 1st rounders, it would be this year for the steelers. I wish the Steelers had found a sucker to take on Wallace last year for a 1st rounder. Oh well.

wwhickok
01-14-2013, 07:34 AM
Havent read all the posts in this thread, but here is my take on it. I think we are really young on offense and outside of perhaps a Running Back I really think we have to focus on reloading thr defense at LB and DB. Having said that if there is a WR or even an OL that is just too big a 'prize'one to pass up, we should take them.

lloydwoodson
01-14-2013, 11:05 AM
Delanie Walker or Martellus Bennett. Problem solved.

Delanie walker was tied for 16th most drops in the NFC with 7. He only caught 21 passes. He dropped 3 passes in one game. No thanks.

Stephen A Smith had something to say about Martellus...

XdyyWQmFyoA

Darkstorm05
01-14-2013, 11:10 AM
Wallace was ranked 34th out of the leagues WR's this season. Bad year? That's utter shit for a #1 WR. That's 5 million a year play, right there.

teegre
01-14-2013, 11:32 AM
It depends on who's available. If Bernard is on the board then we have to take him, but that's the only scenario in which we don't take a WR in the second round.

SteelersCanada, I had a thought this morning.

When does the offense stall? The red zone. For whom does BB target in the red-zone? Heath Miller. Why?

BB has been asking for a tall WR, because he knows that in the red-zone, Wallace's main asset (speed) is taken away by the shortened field. AB is a little short for the jump ball. But, Heath is his main target... because of his size.

Likewise, what do Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, and many other WRs have over AB and Sanders? Height. Now, I am not just saying draft a tall WR because he's tall... but, a tall WR might be the catalyst for changing FGs into TDs.

Or... maybe... another quality TE... such as Ertz.

steelfury02
01-14-2013, 11:37 AM
I hear what you're saying. Overload one side of the ball. It's clever.

Let me counter with a few thoughts.

1. Resign Wallace. He had a bad year... and was still good. If he's resigned, then no need for a WR.

2. Heath's injury made TE a need. But, Paulson looks like a good #2 (pass catcher, but not blocker). Maybe a third TE, to replace Pope.

3. I'm not a fan of taking a RB early. It's a weak draft at the top... but, a deep draft. I'd add a RB to compete... but, honestly, I'm not sure any RB not drafted would be better than what the Steelers already have. Maybe a rookie "could" be better, but maybe not; no one blows me away in this draft.

I say draft Lattimore, IR him until week 7, and then insert him into the line-up.

4. The one area where the Steelers could upgrade is LG (Warmack, Cooper, Barrett Jones). That would help ANY RB. That said, I think that they go with Beachum (or Foster).

5. DEFENSE
The Steelers could be a smothering type of defense, if they add a few parts.

The secondary was great, and adding a young S will only make it better.

Troy had his "injured season" this season; next season is his healthy season. (He alternates seasons.)

Harrison was coming on at the end. Adding a young OLB (rotating with Harrison) will help keep him fresh.

Woodley will get a kick in his butt, and come back to his 12-sack form for next season.

McClendon will get a chance to start. And, Heyward will rotate.

Lastly, Spence should be an upgrade.

SUMMATION:
If it were somewhere in between, here's what I would propose.

R1: S
R2: OLB
R3: WR (tall)
R4: RB (Lattimore)
R5: TE

This is a really objective way to look at it - we can all sit here and say we have needs for whatever reasons at almost every position - I like that you went D in first two rounds because this draft will be heavy with D talent - and I think you need to get the best asap this year - O talent doesn't blow me away either - but I think we can find guys that will contribute and support the roster at that position in the mid rounds (3&4 as you noted) - TE is a real toss up for me still - we might be able to get someone undrafted -maybe even another Will Johnson type pickup in terms of unknown with some real assets we can utilize at a low price without using the draft

cbrunn
01-14-2013, 11:59 AM
using drafttek.com new mock, and a 3rd round for Sanders Tender(guessing they will tender him a 3rd, I doubt anybody takes him for a 3rd but it's just for fun)

1st - OLB - Mingo
2nd - FS - Bacarri Rambo
3rd(sanders tender) - SS - Phillip Thomas
3rd - RB -Andre Elington / Mike Gillislee / Kenjon Barner (I kind of like Gillislee the best)
4th - WR - Cobi Hamilton
5th - TE - Michael Williams
6th - ILB - AJ Klein / WR - Aaron Mellette

I think this hits everything, future OLB , future Splash play safeties, Good running back that would fit Haley system perfect , a very good WR that's not a midget, a Run blocking TE with some redzone use , another taller good WR or depth at the ILB

GoFor7
01-14-2013, 12:05 PM
Ah, that's right. I remember now... a healthy Harrison & Troy probably had nothing to do with that.

Got it.

So, why draft defense at all? All they need to do is for Josh Victorian to play really aggressively... yes?

There are plently of defenses in the league that don't have a Harrison or a Polamalu and still get more turnovers than the Steelers. The Steelers played conservative on defense all season until the last two games. Not enough pressure up front, and the DBs were instructed to "tackle the catch" instead of trying to jump a route and pick off a pass.

Josh Victorian playing really doesn't have anything to do with it. Wallace and Mendenhall are probably gone, as is Starks and at least one of Colon and Foster. Heath may not be ready for the start of the season. The Steelers will be much more shorthanded on offense than on defense by the time the draft rolls around. Considering what these playoffs have shown, you need to put up points. Ball control and hoping the defense keeps the team in it won't be enough.

Final scores in divisional weekend: 38-35, 45-31, 30-28, 38-28. Are the Steelers going to stubbornly stick to their philosophies and draft mostly defense, or will they accept it's time to change and load up on skill positions on offense?

wwhickok
01-14-2013, 12:27 PM
The more I truly think about it the less I am convinced that Wallace leaves. Perhaps Plaxico is chirping in his ear telling him the grass isn't always greener.

wwhickok
01-14-2013, 12:34 PM
The early rumors are that Rey Maualuga won't remain in Cincy....do any of you think the Steelers would target him? I think he could be a nice fit beside Timmons.

teegre
01-14-2013, 12:42 PM
There are plently of defenses in the league that don't have a Harrison or a Polamalu and still get more turnovers than the Steelers. The Steelers played conservative on defense all season until the last two games. Not enough pressure up front, and the DBs were instructed to "tackle the catch" instead of trying to jump a route and pick off a pass.

Josh Victorian playing really doesn't have anything to do with it. Wallace and Mendenhall are probably gone, as is Starks and at least one of Colon and Foster. Heath may not be ready for the start of the season. The Steelers will be much more shorthanded on offense than on defense by the time the draft rolls around. Considering what these playoffs have shown, you need to put up points. Ball control and hoping the defense keeps the team in it won't be enough.

Final scores in divisional weekend: 38-35, 45-31, 30-28, 38-28. Are the Steelers going to stubbornly stick to their philosophies and draft mostly defense, or will they accept it's time to change and load up on skill positions on offense?

So, exactly what would you suggest the draft look like? You complain about Colbert's drafting... so, please, enlighten us on what you'd do in this draft.

Likewise, since the offense needs help, why aren't you suggesting that Wallace & Spinny be resigned??? That's odd that you don't want them.

Is it a money issue? If so, to free up money, are you suggesting that the Steelers stop their archaic ways, and cut contracts of Harrison, Troy, Ike, & Woodley? Heck, Timmons & Clark should probably be cut, as well. Lastly, I'm assuming you don't want them to resign Lewis either. Right?

Does that sound "modern" enough?... or, are you suggesting even more cuts? Because, really, who needs playmakers, when we all know it's all a matter of simply "not handcuffing" any old defender. Chris Carter is obviously just as capable as James Harrison.

So, Yes, using your impeccable logic: let's not draft ANY defenders any more... ever. Because, the Steelers need to get with the modern times of drafting solely offensive players. Right?

teegre
01-14-2013, 12:55 PM
The more I truly think about it the less I am convinced that Wallace leaves. Perhaps Plaxico is chirping in his ear telling him the grass isn't always greener.

I agree. I have stated my disdain for Wallace, but he is still a good WR (who could be great). Plus, BB wants him; he is BB's top priority (Ben's words)... and, thus, I see a deal getting down (even BB giving up $2-3 million of his own money, to resign him).

5 years, $52 million.

Re: Rey Mauauaualuauauaga
I'd rather use that money to re-sign Keenan Lewis. Plus, I like Spence/think spence should get a shot.

SteelersCanada
01-14-2013, 12:59 PM
It has nothing to do with being stubborn about our defensive philosophies. The reason the Patriots were putting up those numbers was because of a total team effort. They lead in the turnover differential and had Tom Brady as their Quarterback - those things together will = points.

We need to draft a WR or RB in the second round, depending on who is available. Beyond that, our defense is older and less talented at this point than our offense. OLB, ILB and S are bigger needs than what you're making them out to be. Right now, they're glaring holes and we need to draft younger guys to help reload our defense. Quality, playmaking WRs can be found in all rounds of this draft. On the flip side, there's only a couple of legitimate pass rushers and inside 'Backers in this draft and they're all going to be taken in the high rounds (1 - 3). That's why we absolutely have to address two of these positions in the first three rounds.

SteelersCanada
01-14-2013, 04:04 PM
I think the Burress example was a little iffy. I mean, he did win a Super Bowl with the Giants when he left here. That being said, Wallace should go have a long talk with Santonio Holmes and talk about being a selfish player and what it's done for him over in New York playing with Sanchez. There's playing for money, then there's playing for money and playing for a perennial Super Bowl contender like the Steelers are. If the Steelers table him another 5 year / 50 million dollar deal, I think he takes it. He might get more elsewhere, but who is he going to be playing with? The way I see it, there's only three legitimate contenders that have the cap space and/or need to fill.

1. Miami Dolphins
2. Buffalo Bills
3. New York Jets

Take a long, hard look at that list. The first thing that will jump out is they're playing in the AFC East. That's right, they're all playing against Tom Brady and his Patriots. So, that should be a red flag right there. The second thing, only one of those teams have a legitimate Quarterback of the future and it's the 'Fins. So, the 'Fins have Tannehill but Wallace would be his only legitimate receiving threat. Sure, you'll get 85+ catches, but you'll also be 5 - 11 so I think the con's outweigh the pro's there.

It all comes down to what Wallace thinks is best for him: a 5 year / 50 - 52.5 million dollar deal with the Steelers, or a 5 year / 55+ million dollar deal with a team that has no chance of seeing postseason action, let alone a shot at the title, for many, many years. Someone has to sit him down and tell him that because apparently, Bus Cook isn't.

So, how does this tie into our draft? If Wallace leaves, it doesn't matter who is on the board in the second round - we have to go WR. I'm a huge Manny Sanders fan and I think he's underrated and needs to be given a shot, but I don't trust Cotch and Burress as our 3rd and 4th receivers for many different reasons. First and foremost, they're old. Grabbing someone like Robert Woods or Cordarrelle Patterson in the second round gives us another shot of youth in our receiving core. Secondly, they're not all that talented. They have sure hands when they get separation, but they're never able to get separation unless Ben goes sandlot and makes something out of nothing.

MasterOfPuppets
01-14-2013, 04:14 PM
lol...the steelers made it pretty clear they are done dicking around with wallace. giving his offer to brown was a big ole "up yours mikey" move.
the lackluster effort and performance last year just sealed the "no" deal. i wouldn't be suprised to see wallace in cinncinatti or cleveland.

GoFor7
01-14-2013, 04:18 PM
It has nothing to do with being stubborn about our defensive philosophies. The reason the Patriots were putting up those numbers was because of a total team effort. They lead in the turnover differential and had Tom Brady as their Quarterback - those things together will = points.

Whenever the Steelers defense got a turnover this year, it was run, run, sack punt. Whenever the Patriots defense gets a turnover, their offense goes for the jugular. So yes, there is a difference in philosophy. The Patriots play modern football - they play for points. The Steelers think it's still about possession. They don't go for the jugular because they're afraid the defense won't get enough rest if they do.

We need to draft a WR or RB in the second round, depending on who is available. Beyond that, our defense is older and less talented at this point than our offense. OLB, ILB and S are bigger needs than what you're making them out to be. Right now, they're glaring holes and we need to draft younger guys to help reload our defense. Quality, playmaking WRs can be found in all rounds of this draft. On the flip side, there's only a couple of legitimate pass rushers and inside 'Backers in this draft and they're all going to be taken in the high rounds (1 - 3). That's why we absolutely have to address two of these positions in the first three rounds.

They'll need a TE too. Paulson and Pope aren't starters and cannot replace Heath.

Did you watch the playoffs this weekend? Some of those high-ranked defenses gave up a lot of points. Putting up points is what's most important, not possessing and hoping the defense keeps the team in it. Time to change philosophies.

GoFor7
01-14-2013, 04:31 PM
So, exactly what would you suggest the draft look like? You complain about Colbert's drafting... so, please, enlighten us on what you'd do in this draft.

Likewise, since the offense needs help, why aren't you suggesting that Wallace & Spinny be resigned??? That's odd that you don't want them.

Is it a money issue? If so, to free up money, are you suggesting that the Steelers stop their archaic ways, and cut contracts of Harrison, Troy, Ike, & Woodley? Heck, Timmons & Clark should probably be cut, as well. Lastly, I'm assuming you don't want them to resign Lewis either. Right?

Does that sound "modern" enough?... or, are you suggesting even more cuts? Because, really, who needs playmakers, when we all know it's all a matter of simply "not handcuffing" any old defender. Chris Carter is obviously just as capable as James Harrison.

So, Yes, using your impeccable logic: let's not draft ANY defenders any more... ever. Because, the Steelers need to get with the modern times of drafting solely offensive players. Right?

More knee-jerking from you. I said they should draft a pass rusher. But considering who will probably leave in free agency, that offense will be more shorthanded than the defense. So yes, I'd stack up more on offense this year and score more points and not have to rely so much on the defense being ranked #1 in yards allowed.

teegre
01-14-2013, 04:53 PM
More knee-jerking from you. I said they should draft a pass rusher. But considering who will probably leave in free agency, that offense will be more shorthanded than the defense. So yes, I'd stack up more on offense this year and score more points and not have to rely so much on the defense being ranked #1 in yards allowed.

And I suggested a RB, WR, & TE... but, you wanted more... and posted one of your usual tangents (the one about not needing defense).

So, again, please enlighten us: who would YOU draft? Don't just complain... take the reins.

GoFor7
01-14-2013, 05:05 PM
And I suggested a RB, WR, & TE... but, you wanted more... and posted one of your usual tangents (the one about not needing defense).

So, again, please enlighten us: who would YOU draft? Don't just complain... take the reins.

I explained in my original post what I would take.

teegre
01-14-2013, 05:09 PM
I explained in my original post what I would take.

It was vague at best. You did not list rounds for positions, let alone any players... so, again, stop complaining and take the reins. Enlighten us.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
01-14-2013, 06:01 PM
It was vague at best. You did not list rounds for positions, let alone any players... so, again, stop complaining and take the reins. Enlighten us.

I can see where godor7 is coming and what he means.

The defense is number one again (and that's based on total years allowed ) but we were 8-8. A lot of people want to load up on defense in early picks so we can maintain this number one defense, which isn't a major need. We have some young players waiting in the wings of our defense and those guys are young and fast Allen Lewis even brown, heyward will be a quality de McClendon is faster are could be just has good as Hampton with the ability to stay on third down to generate some pass rush., and the verdit is still out on worilds spence and slyvester. Our biggest problem would lay in the safety spot where there is no clear cut replacement for either Troy or Clark and they both will be back be next year.

We don't have to maintain this top 5 defense to win another Super Bowl. What the defense needs to do more is generate turnovers and score ie more int and more fumbles something Allen showed in the last game, punching the ball out and such.

So with our young players waiting to step up we should focus more on offense then we do defense especially in the early rounds.

I especially would like our offense to be able to drive down and score a lot more than we did last year. Also I hated watching three and outs punting the ball and giving it away to the opposing team at the 50. We would also give the other team a short field to work with and then in turn we would always have 70+ yards to go.

We can always use another oline wr rb te more needs on offense than defense for next year

teegre
01-14-2013, 06:17 PM
I can see where godor7 is coming and what he means.

The defense is number one again (and that's based on total years allowed ) but we were 8-8. A lot of people want to load up on defense in early picks so we can maintain this number one defense, which isn't a major need. We have some young players waiting in the wings of our defense and those guys are young and fast Allen Lewis even brown, heyward will be a quality de McClendon is faster are could be just has good as Hampton with the ability to stay on third down to generate some pass rush., and the verdit is still out on worilds spence and slyvester. Our biggest problem would lay in the safety spot where there is no clear cut replacement for either Troy or Clark and they both will be back be next year.

We don't have to maintain this top 5 defense to win another Super Bowl. What the defense needs to do more is generate turnovers and score ie more int and more fumbles something Allen showed in the last game, punching the ball out and such.

So with our young players waiting to step up we should focus more on offense then we do defense especially in the early rounds.

I especially would like our offense to be able to drive down and score a lot more than we did last year. Also I hated watching three and outs punting the ball and giving it away to the opposing team at the 50. We would also give the other team a short field to work with and then in turn we would always have 70+ yards to go.

We can always use another oline wr rb te more needs on offense than defense for next year

Oh, I understood Gofor7's initial post. See my initial response to him. Heck, I even "thanked" his initial post.

I had an issue with his notion that Colbert is "stuck in the 90s" (drafting defensive players & ignoring the offense). As if Pouncey, Wallace, DD, & AB is "ignoring" the offense. It's that "little bit" extra that he adds, the derision, that gets me riled up. Anyway...

This defense is predicated on pressure from the OLBs. Harrison looked better as the year wore on, and if Woodley goes on a diet, he should be back to his 12-sack-per-season form. BUT, Harrison has one year left in the tank, and it'd be nice to have a young player in the mix, to rotate with Harrison and/or Woodley.

Furthermore, when Harrison was healthy, Allen got turnovers; the two things are related (which is why I want a pass-rusher).

I know that some like Worilds, but he is nothing more than Clark Haggans... and I want Joey Porter.

As I posted to Hawaii, this defense is indeed young... if the "back-ups" ever start. Truthfully, the only two positions where there is not a young starter is OLB & both S spots.

Ergo, I say: OLB & S... followed by a tall WR (see my post to SteelersCanada about that), a RB (Lattimore would be a calculated risk), and a TE. Then, in R6 & R7, take a stab at another S (to replace Clark) and then an O-lineman (for back up purposes & to development).

JackH
01-14-2013, 06:32 PM
In my opinion, the Steelers first pick in the draft should be a tight end, specifically Tyler Eifert of Notre Dame or Zach Ertz of Stanford.

Let’s talk critical need. When will Heath Miller be ready to go? Week 5 like Mendenhall or Week 1 like Adrian Peterson? Are you going to take a chance you won’t have a quality tight end for a fourth of the season? And I don’t even want to hear about Pope and Paulson.

Who was the most productive receiver on the Steelers this season? Heath was. Why is that? First of course, he’s an awesome player. Second, Haley’s offensive scheme featured the role of the tight end in a middle of the field ball control game plan.

Are any of our wide receivers Hines Ward? It appeared to me that Wallace, Brown, and Sanders don’t like going over the middle to catch it all that much. Hence, dropped balls and fumbles. Another quality tight end means the possibility of more two tight end sets. You know, like Gronk and Hernandez.

Eifert and Ertz, the two top rated tight ends in the draft, are about the same 6’6’ 250 pound size and I don’t see much to distinguish one from the other. Both are projected to go mid first round to mid second round in the draft.

The Steelers could possibly move down in the first round and still get one of these guys and pick up an extra pick. To wait until our pick in the second round, however, might mean both are gone.

teegre
01-14-2013, 06:44 PM
In my opinion, the Steelers first pick in the draft should be a tight end, specifically Tyler Eifert of Notre Dame or Zach Ertz of Stanford.

Letís talk critical need. When will Heath Miller be ready to go? Week 5 like Mendenhall or Week 1 like Adrian Peterson? Are you going to take a chance you wonít have a quality tight end for a fourth of the season? And I donít even want to hear about Pope and Paulson.

Who was the most productive receiver on the Steelers this season? Heath was. Why is that? First of course, heís an awesome player. Second, Haleyís offensive scheme featured the role of the tight end in a middle of the field ball control game plan.

Are any of our wide receivers Hines Ward? It appeared to me that Wallace, Brown, and Sanders donít like going over the middle to catch it all that much. Hence, dropped balls and fumbles. Another quality tight end means the possibility of more two tight end sets. You know, like Gronk and Hernandez.

Eifert and Ertz, the two top rated tight ends in the draft, are about the same 6í6í 250 pound size and I donít see much to distinguish one from the other. Both are projected to go mid first round to mid second round in the draft.

The Steelers could possibly move down in the first round and still get one of these guys and pick up an extra pick. To wait until our pick in the second round, however, might mean both are gone.

Nice first post. Well thought out & rational.

Now... even though I want an OLB & a S, you make a solid argument.

I was posting to SteelersCanada just this morning that the Steelers' solution to their red-zone woes might just be a tall WR or another TE.

As you said, TE is key to BB's success... and they line up with two TEs for enough plays to warrant a high pick. At 17, no. Trading back, maybe. R2, I'm listening. R3, sure.

I've made a concession with others. I get my S in R1, and a LB in R3... and you can have your TE (or WR) in R2. Deal?

I'd risk Ertz dropping. If he's gone, then there are a bunch around the end of R2/beginning of R3. In which case, I suggest waiting to R3 for Gavin Escobar (he plays more like Aaron Hernandez, less like Gronk).

WokeUpWithaWoodley
01-14-2013, 06:47 PM
Oh, I understood Gofor7's initial post. See my initial response to him. Heck, I even "thanked" his initial post.

I had an issue with his notion that Colbert is "stuck in the 90s" (drafting defensive players & ignoring the offense). As if Pouncey, Wallace, DD, & AB is "ignoring" the offense. It's that "little bit" extra that he adds, the derision, that gets me riled up. Anyway...

This defense is predicated on pressure from the OLBs. Harrison looked better as the year wore on, and if Woodley goes on a diet, he should be back to his 12-sack-per-season form. BUT, Harrison has one year left in the tank, and it'd be nice to have a young player in the mix, to rotate with Harrison and/or Woodley.

Furthermore, when Harrison was healthy, Allen got turnovers; the two things are related (which is why I want a pass-rusher).

I know that some like Worilds, but he is nothing more than Clark Haggans... and I want Joey Porter.

As I posted to Hawaii, this defense is indeed young... if the "back-ups" ever start. Truthfully, the only two positions where there is not a young starter is OLB & both S spots.

Ergo, I say: OLB & S... followed by a tall WR (see my post to SteelersCanada about that), a RB (Lattimore would be a calculated risk), and a TE. Then, in R6 & R7, take a stab at another S (to replace Clark) and then an O-lineman (for back up purposes & to development).

I'd have to say I'm very happy with Colbert and his decision making ESP in round one see I agree with you there. He is a reason why we have been successful year in and year out.

Yes the defense relies on the pass rush. But the reason like you said last year was a unhealthy Harrison and Woolley with look to be a bit slow but he also has had his slu of injuries. Next year I believe they both with come back with double digit sacks, with worilds rotating and eventually taking over for Harrison. This will be worlids make it or break it year you cant say he is a haggans type cause we dont know. I don't see us taking olb in first i also don't think it's that pressing of a need especially I don't believe there will be anyone worth taking at 17th.

And Allen I believe had two fumbles by him self in the browns game not cause of what Harrison did. Our cornerbacks and safeties need to be better on breaking on the ball reading the qb and catching the ball. Clark goes for e big hit to mUch

I don't think we will go olb in round one nor should we. Offense should be focused on in the early part of the draft. This draft will be a tricking one to debate this early on cause I really don't see a clear cut great pick for us at 17 that fills a big need and makes our team better.

I would like to see the offense manage 30 points more so than not. You score points especially early on you make teams one dimensional.

teegre
01-14-2013, 06:56 PM
I'd have to say I'm very happy with Colbert and his decision making ESP in round one see I agree with you there. He is a reason why we have been successful year in and year out.

Yes the defense relies on the pass rush. But the reason like you said last year was a unhealthy Harrison and Woolley with look to be a bit slow but he also has had his slu of injuries. Next year I believe they both with come back with double digit sacks, with worilds rotating and eventually taking over for Harrison. This will be worlids make it or break it year you cant say he is a haggans type cause we dont know. I don't see us taking olb in first i also don't think it's that pressing of a need especially I don't believe there will be anyone worth taking at 17th.

And Allen I believe had two fumbles by him self in the browns game not cause of what Harrison did. Our cornerbacks and safeties need to be better on breaking on the ball reading the qb and catching the ball. Clark goes for e big hit to mUch

I don't think we will go olb in round one nor should we. Offense should be focused on in the early part of the draft. This draft will be a tricking one to debate this early on cause I really don't see a clear cut great pick for us at 17 that fills a big need and makes our team better.

I would like to see the offense manage 30 points more so than not. You score points especially early on you make teams one dimensional.

Okay... let's assume Worilds starts on 2014. (We can agree to disagree on that.) The S position still needs two players by 2014... and thus, one HAS to be drafted this year. And, early.

Look at when this team has been successful: when they've had a dominant safety: Donnie Shell, Carnell Lake, and Troy Polamalu...

...and, Matt Elam.

ALLEN
You're right: he punched those fumbles out on his own. Can't agree more: he's gonna be special. Ike Taylor, part II.

I was thinking about his INTs. The INTs came when Harrison got in the QBs face. I'm sure Cortez had 95% to do with it, but I'm sure that the pressure helped that extra little bit... the difference between a better pass and an INT.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
01-14-2013, 07:53 PM
Okay... let's assume Worilds starts on 2014. (We can agree to disagree on that.) The S position still needs two players by 2014... and thus, one HAS to be drafted this year. And, early.

Look at when this team has been successful: when they've had a dominant safety: Donnie Shell, Carnell Lake, and Troy Polamalu...

...and, Matt Elam.

ALLEN
You're right: he punched those fumbles out on his own. Can't agree more: he's gonna be special. Ike Taylor, part II.

I was thinking about his INTs. The INTs came when Harrison got in the QBs face. I'm sure Cortez had 95% to do with it, but I'm sure that the pressure helped that extra little bit... the difference between a better pass and an INT.


I'm not saying I think worilds will be next great steelers linebacker although I hope, but no one really knows yet. We have always develope our linebackers to be great, every so often when we need a backer someone steps up we produce linebackers.

I do think safety is our biggest defensive need, and I wouldn't be oppose to selecting one in the first to be able to sit this year play special teams maybe some nickel and learn behide one of the best safeties in the league. Guys like vaccaro or Elam the top 2 safeties in the draft in my opinion would be great guys for the steelers.

I think Allen will be great. When we drafted him he was said to be the mold of Ike so your right there.

If defense was How went in round one I would be ok with safety then wr/rb/oline/te to follow in 2 and 3 maybe 4 then get depth defense.

AgentGold007
01-14-2013, 08:28 PM
The Steelers need to get younger on defense, while at the same time, add some more pop on the offense. As usual, they won't have very much money, if any, to spend in free agency, so what do they do? We may have had the number one defense this past season, but when it came to making game changing plays, it seemed like they were often a step late far too many times. We were a step late when it came to sacks, we were a step late when it came to recovering fumbles, a step late when it came to batting down passes or getting interceptions. To me, that's a sign of an aging defense that needs to make a smoothe transition to younger players while they still have serviceable veterans around. The offense was disappointing when it came to scoring touchdowns and not settling for field goals. To me, there's no reason why we shouldn't be as explosive as the Patriots on offense. This draft screams for us to move down in the draft and accumulate as many draft picks as possible to address our needs with some young guns.

SteelersCanada
01-14-2013, 08:32 PM
We can't waste a pick on a Tight End. Again, pick up Martellus Bennett or Delanie Walker in free agency as a stop gap, or potentially a long-term answer at the TE position.

AgentGold007
01-14-2013, 08:55 PM
We can't waste a pick on a Tight End. Again, pick up Martellus Bennett or Delanie Walker in free agency as a stop gap, or potentially a long-term answer at the TE position.

With what money? As much as I'd like to see the Steelers to be able to spend money in free agency, I wouldn't count on it.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
01-14-2013, 08:59 PM
With what money? As much as I'd like to see the Steelers to be able to spend money in free agency, I wouldn't count on it.

I wouldn't mind selecting Tyler eilfert in the first will be the next graham front Davis type player but that's the only te I would pick in the first 3 rounds.

JackH
01-16-2013, 09:54 AM
I wouldn't mind selecting Tyler eilfert in the first will be the next graham front Davis type player but that's the only te I would pick in the first 3 rounds.

I think you're right about Eifert, but Ertz isn't far behind him and no way he won't go before the 3rd round.

I'd rather go find out what Limus Sweed is doing and sign him and play him at tight end than pick up free agents Delanie Walker or Martellus Bennett. As has been pointed out, Walker has trouble catching the ball (and he's only 6'). Bennett reported to OTAs this past season at over 290 pounds. Maybe he can be Big Snack's (Casey Hampton) replacement.

Hey teague, I was wondering who you liked at safety, but I see it's Elam over on the "Steelers will draft 17th in 2013 NFL Draft" thread, so I will reply to you there.

JackH
01-16-2013, 09:59 AM
teegre I meant. Sorry. I'm on a learning curve here. It would be easier if people had names like Laurie and Suzanne that I could remember.