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View Full Version : Can someone tell me how we ended up in this cap hell situation?


Blackout
01-16-2013, 09:50 PM
And why other teams have a ton of cap room? Who does the blame fall on, Khan?

steeltheone
01-16-2013, 10:04 PM
And why other teams have a ton of cap room? Who does the blame fall on, Khan?

It's just the price you pay for being good for such a long time. Mistakes were made, no doubt, but overall it was just paying the good players that made the Steelers winners.

Blacksburg Zach
01-16-2013, 10:09 PM
Giving lucrative contracts to Lawrence Timmons, LaMarr Woodley, Ben Roethlisberger, etc.. Restructuring deals for many players to get under the cap in recent years has come back to bite the Steelers now, leaving them in salary cap hell.

Steelers>NFL
01-17-2013, 08:15 AM
Not as bad as the Jets. They are like 32mm or 36mm (cannot remember which) over the cap. And they suck!

steelfury02
01-17-2013, 08:29 AM
Giving lucrative contracts to Lawrence Timmons, LaMarr Woodley, Ben Roethlisberger, etc.. Restructuring deals for many players to get under the cap in recent years has come back to bite the Steelers now, leaving them in salary cap hell.

LaMarr's got some restructuring to do

ms52737
01-17-2013, 09:48 AM
Part of the reason is we continually restructure - which defers payment, not reduces payment - of our big contracts. Eventually you will start getting into the years where you backloaded payment. Hence our current cap situation. O and Ramon Fosters ungodly contract.

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-17-2013, 11:35 AM
Answer? Art junior took over and started giving out big contracts a few years ago. when u do that you are mortgaging your future for success NOW.

steelfury02
01-17-2013, 11:53 AM
Answer? Art junior took over and started giving out big contracts a few years ago. when u do that you are mortgaging your future for success NOW.

or, we paid guys that were coming off dominating, some even consider legendary performances and we thought they would re-commit even more after getting a nice pay day - instead, injuries and complacency have taken place - no one saw Woodley's decline coming or anticipated Troy being out THIS much

wwhickok
01-17-2013, 11:55 AM
Restructuring

SteelersCanada
01-17-2013, 12:13 PM
Woodley is going to get back into shape and back to football form and we're going to forget about his lucrative contract. We got into this situation because we have elite defensive players on our team and they deserve to be paid as such. That being said, I wouldn't blink twice about getting rid of Harrison, Troy, Keisel and Hampton and clearing cap space that way.

We were very good for a long time and have two DPOY players on our roster. That being said, they also got old very quickly and now their play and contributions aren't adding up with how much they're making.

As soon as these older guys are gone, we're going to be swimming in cap room. Harrison, Keisel, Troy, Hampton, Colon, Foster, Wallace and Mendenhall all gone will ultimately equate to 10's of millions in cap room. We just need Timmons, Woodley and Ben to restructure and we're fine for this year.

Fire Arians
01-17-2013, 12:43 PM
paying the woodendong 60 million bucks for 4 sacks

BlaZeQuietly
01-17-2013, 01:00 PM
paying the woodendong 60 million bucks for 4 sacks

Woodley had a bad season, but so did a lot of other guys. I agree thats a lot of money but hes a guy we can count on being good for a few years still

Hawaii 5-0
01-17-2013, 01:03 PM
LaMarr's got some restructuring to do

James C Wexell ‏@jimwexell:

Our capologist Ian Whetstone says team could restructure Woodley for max savings of $6.2M.

https://twitter.com/jimwexell

Hawaii 5-0
01-17-2013, 01:06 PM
Giving lucrative contracts to Lawrence Timmons, LaMarr Woodley, Ben Roethlisberger, etc.. Restructuring deals for many players to get under the cap in recent years has come back to bite the Steelers now, leaving them in salary cap hell.

James C Wexell ‏@jimwexell:

my source says a Ben restructure could save $7.2M max. Timmons another target at $5.4M max.

https://twitter.com/jimwexell

sloppyjoe
01-17-2013, 03:26 PM
LaMarr's got some restructuring to do

he'll gladly do it.
give him some more upfront money so he can take another season off.

better yet, cut him and try to resign him for the amount that he actually produced at.

SteelersCanada
01-17-2013, 03:28 PM
he'll gladly do it.
give him some more upfront money so he can take another season off.

better yet, cut him and try to resign him for the amount that he actually produced at.

2011: 8 games, 9 sacks, 36 tackles.

That ***** should work through his hamstring injury and produce better results! Make him play injured! But, don't knock Troy and his inability to produce and often times was a liability on defense when he was out there. Or, don't knock Keisel or Harrison for their high cap hits and again, producing next to nothing.

steelfury02
01-17-2013, 03:42 PM
2011: 8 games, 9 sacks, 36 tackles.

That ***** should work through his hamstring injury and produce better results! Make him play injured! But, don't knock Troy and his inability to produce and often times was a liability on defense when he was out there. Or, don't knock Keisel or Harrison for their high cap hits and again, producing next to nothing.

the difference is in the commitment - his own coach said as much

StainlessStill
01-17-2013, 04:14 PM
In a nutshell, we practically have gone all-in on this teams last horrah at a championship. We knew what we had with guys like Hampton, Keisel, Troy, Woodley and other veterans serving on the team. We got there in '10 and restructured a good deal for '11 but now that going all in on such deals are rearing it's ugly face in 2012 with mediocre results, changes are going to be made.

steelfury02
01-17-2013, 04:19 PM
In a nutshell, we practically have gone all-in on this teams last horrah at a championship. We knew what we had with guys like Hampton, Keisel, Troy, Woodley and other veterans serving on the team. We got there in '10 and restructured a good deal for '11 but now that going all in on such deals are rearing it's ugly face in 2012 with mediocre results, changes are going to be made.

XLV was really the blown chance - too bad GB decided to have its coming out party - and even still, 1 less mistake and we're talking Lombardi #8 instead.

I really want to see someone like Troy get another ring - same for Ben - they deserve to be mentioned up there with the greats at their positions and especially because of how unique they are at their position and the unorthodox ways they got their championships

TRH
01-17-2013, 04:20 PM
yet....it amazes me how much i'm STILL seeing "restructure" being thrown about on this board.

As for the big contracts - look at all that elite Brinks money we threw around - much of it coming at nearly the same time.
Ben - Troy - Harrison - Woodley - Timmons - Just those contracts alone are cringe-inducing when you think about it.
I still don't know how teams like the Patriots keep coming in way under the cap and have all this wiggle room to do anything they damn well feel like doing. We're not even in the same league as putting teams/players/money together like they do.

sloppyjoe
01-17-2013, 04:38 PM
2011: 8 games, 9 sacks, 36 tackles.

That ***** should work through his hamstring injury and produce better results! Make him play injured! But, don't knock Troy and his inability to produce and often times was a liability on defense when he was out there. Or, don't knock Keisel or Harrison for their high cap hits and again, producing next to nothing.

im all for cutting troy and harrisons lame asses also. difference is that woodley is soft and decided that once he got the big payday he would play whenever he felt like it.

steelfury02
01-17-2013, 04:44 PM
yet....it amazes me how much i'm STILL seeing "restructure" being thrown about on this board.

As for the big contracts - look at all that elite Brinks money we threw around - much of it coming at nearly the same time.
Ben - Troy - Harrison - Woodley - Timmons - Just those contracts alone are cringe-inducing when you think about it.
I still don't know how teams like the Patriots keep coming in way under the cap and have all this wiggle room to do anything they damn well feel like doing. We're not even in the same league as putting teams/players/money together like they do.

the names on the back of most of those jerseys haven't won 2 SBs and on the verge of possibly winning a 3rd - even though it just ended up being an appearance

Millers the sh!t
01-17-2013, 05:15 PM
Because everyone on the board thinks WE have the brightest FO, GM, CM in the league that never has or never will do wrong and its not looking quite true in these past few Years.

Millers the sh!t
01-17-2013, 05:19 PM
I know Harrison is a big cap hit, but he was also one of the best on defense. He started playing like an animal more and more every week. I'd keep him for another year if he's healthy 2 mote years. Woodley a chump.

steelfury02
01-17-2013, 05:22 PM
agree on Woodley - when you're getting outperformed by a guy who is that long in the tooth and is considering to be underperforming because of an injury - you're not doing enough

SteelersCanada
01-17-2013, 06:29 PM
im all for cutting troy and harrisons lame asses also. difference is that woodley is soft and decided that once he got the big payday he would play whenever he felt like it.

LB LaMarr Woodley signs 6-year deal

August 2011

So, when Woodley had already signed his contract extension, he was putting up record numbers. But, no, he decided when he was going to play. Do you see why this makes absolutely no sense? You're trying to pin him being 'soft' and lazy, but he was actually playing better than he was after he got his extension.

The amount of scapegoating that takes place on these forums is unreal.

He put on weight and got out of shape when he hurt his hamstring - no one is arguing that. He needs to get his ass back into shape and I'm very confident he's going to do so. That being said, to call him lazy and soft is the definition of ignorant.

teegre
01-17-2013, 06:48 PM
I know Harrison is a big cap hit, but he was also one of the best on defense. He started playing like an animal more and more every week. I'd keep him for another year if he's healthy 2 mote years. Woodley a chump.

You do realize that in back-to-back posts, you state that people on this site are dumb for wanting the GM to have signed Harrison to a long-term deal (which is putting them in "cap hell")... and then turn right around and say to keep Harrison "because he is one of the best on defense."

Which is it?

Regardless, Harrison being GREAT is exactly why he was given a long-term deal. That is exactly why Troy was given a big deal. That is exactly why BB was given a huge deal.

It isn't like the GM is signing Will I am GAY to monster deals. It isn't like the GM is re-signing Justin Hartwig. It isn't liek they are throwing money at LaMarr Woodley... oh.

Really though, if the GM had cut Troy in his prime (in order to save money), Steelers fans would have KILLED him!!!

Yes, the contracts were pushed back... and now... some of those "used to be great" players will be cut. It was Ward & Farrior last year... and more WILL be cut this year.

sloppyjoe
01-17-2013, 07:10 PM
LB LaMarr Woodley signs 6-year deal

August 2011

So, when Woodley had already signed his contract extension, he was putting up record numbers. But, no, he decided when he was going to play. Do you see why this makes absolutely no sense? You're trying to pin him being 'soft' and lazy, but he was actually playing better than he was after he got his extension.

The amount of scapegoating that takes place on these forums is unreal.

He put on weight and got out of shape when he hurt his hamstring - no one is arguing that. He needs to get his ass back into shape and I'm very confident he's going to do so. That being said, to call him lazy and soft is the definition of ignorant.

woodley played hard thru his rookie contract and was rewarded highly although upset that he didnt getted rreworked during his third year due the the F'ed up cba crap. he comes out hard to live up to the new money deal, plays well, gets hurt. doesnt really work hard to comeback the rest of the year, probably thinking 'they owe me for year #3 when i should have been getting more" takes the rest of the year off. lives large during the off season. steelers come knocking for a restructure. woodley says 'hell ya, gimme more up front money that i dont have to work for'. knowing the steelers cant do a damn thing aboput his contract for a few years, decides to take off the whole year.
now here we are with some 'real' fans wanting to restructure woodley again this year. lamar is sitting at home waiting and hoping for the call to see if he can 'help the team' and coast another couple years. tallk about the definition of ignorant.:banging:

SteelersCanada
01-17-2013, 07:17 PM
woodley played hard thru his rookie contract and was rewarded highly although upset that he didnt getted rreworked during his third year due the the F'ed up cba crap. he comes out hard to live up to the new money deal, plays well, gets hurt. doesnt really work hard to comeback the rest of the year, probably thinking 'they owe me for year #3 when i should have been getting more" takes the rest of the year off. lives large during the off season. steelers come knocking for a restructure. woodley says 'hell ya, gimme more up front money that i dont have to work for'. knowing the steelers cant do a damn thing aboput his contract for a few years, decides to take off the whole year.
now here we are with some real' fans wanting to restructure woodley again this year. lamar is sitting at home waiting and hoping for the call to see if he can 'help the team' and coast another couple years. tallk about the definition of ignorant.:banging:

So, once again, you've failed to provide any facts and are giving assumptions based on exactly ... oh, they're based on conversations you think happened. Ok, gotcha. So, the weight they carry is about the same weight that leprechaun's and unicorn's carry.

The bottom line is, when Woodley was playing healthy, he was living up to the contract we gave him. It doesn't matter what you think the conversation was or what you think the thought process was for Woodley because frankly, how could you possibly know what Woodley was thinking? Man, you have some sweet inside sources. First, it was knowing what Wallace and his agent discussed. Now, it's what Woodley is thinking. Man, you should use these super powers you have to fight crime.

I'm ignorant for dealing in facts and statistics? Gotcha.

sloppyjoe
01-17-2013, 07:38 PM
So, once again, you've failed to provide any facts and are giving assumptions based on exactly ... oh, they're based on conversations you think happened. Ok, gotcha. So, the weight they carry is about the same weight that leprechaun's and unicorn's carry.

The bottom line is, when Woodley was playing healthy, he was living up to the contract we gave him. It doesn't matter what you think the conversation was or what you think the thought process was for Woodley because frankly, how could you possibly know what Woodley was thinking? Man, you have some sweet inside sources. First, it was knowing what Wallace and his agent discussed. Now, it's what Woodley is thinking. Man, you should use these super powers you have to fight crime.

I'm ignorant for dealing in facts and statistics? Gotcha.

how much weight did woodley put on?

Steelers5895
01-17-2013, 08:01 PM
Woodley is going to get back into shape and back to football form and we're going to forget about his lucrative contract. We got into this situation because we have elite defensive players on our team and they deserve to be paid as such. That being said, I wouldn't blink twice about getting rid of Harrison, Troy, Keisel and Hampton and clearing cap space that way.

We were very good for a long time and have two DPOY players on our roster. That being said, they also got old very quickly and now their play and contributions aren't adding up with how much they're making.

As soon as these older guys are gone, we're going to be swimming in cap room. Harrison, Keisel, Troy, Hampton, Colon, Foster, Wallace and Mendenhall all gone will ultimately equate to 10's of millions in cap room. We just need Timmons, Woodley and Ben to restructure and we're fine for this year.

wow, who is your source? this sounds like wishful thinking

elite defensive players? uh what? you mean players able to play in lebeau's system. only elite were troy and harrison. the rest are good not great.

SteelersCanada
01-17-2013, 08:16 PM
wow, who is your source? this sounds like wishful thinking

elite defensive players? uh what? you mean players able to play in lebeau's system. only elite were troy and harrison. the rest are good not great.

I don't need a source to be thinking realistically. Art Rooney already discussed they're looking into the fact that their players are getting injured more and more and perhaps better conditioning would fix it. So, I'm using what the owner of the team said as my fallback option. Ya know, again, quotes from the people that actually matter and not made up conversations that people think happened.

Ike, Timmons, Woodley and Clark are great players when they're healthy. Lewis and McLendon are knocking on the door of great. They both had solid seasons and are looking better every snap they're getting.

Heyward is a younger guy that applies consistent pressure when he's on the field. The rest of the guys are older and they're not playing the way they once were. This is where the draft plays a part for this team and helps us keep the mantra of 'reload not rebuild'.

sloppyjoe
01-17-2013, 08:22 PM
I don't need a source to be thinking realistically. Art Rooney already discussed they're looking into the fact that their players are getting injured more and more and perhaps better conditioning would fix it. So, I'm using what the owner of the team said as my fallback option. Ya know, again, quotes from the people that actually matter and not made up conversations that people think happened.

Ike, Timmons, Woodley and Clark are great players when they're healthy. Lewis and McLendon are knocking on the door of great. They both had solid seasons and are looking better every snap they're getting.

Heyward is a younger guy that applies consistent pressure when he's on the field. The rest of the guys are older and they're not playing the way they once were. This is where the draft plays a part for this team and helps us keep the mantra of 'reload not rebuild'.

how much weight did woodley put on?

Darkstorm05
01-17-2013, 08:49 PM
yet....it amazes me how much i'm STILL seeing "restructure" being thrown about on this board.

As for the big contracts - look at all that elite Brinks money we threw around - much of it coming at nearly the same time.
Ben - Troy - Harrison - Woodley - Timmons - Just those contracts alone are cringe-inducing when you think about it.
I still don't know how teams like the Patriots keep coming in way under the cap and have all this wiggle room to do anything they damn well feel like doing. We're not even in the same league as putting teams/players/money together like they do.

Some people just can't be shown the light. The people wanting to restructure Ben make me laugh the most. Say we push millions onto the tail of his contract in dead money, then he gets the concussion that washes him up?

The only way to get out of cap hell is to cut guys who have huge contracts, and get past the dead money we left out there with this restructuring shit. All this "Khan is a cap genius" stuff is a fancy way of saying the team knows how to burn up a credit card. Ben should be the only guy in the 10 million dollar club immune to being outright cut on this team.

SteelersCanada
01-17-2013, 08:56 PM
how much weight did woodley put on?

You're the one that is seemingly inside Woodley's thoughts and/or conversations, why don't you tell me?

He did put weight on and this comes as a surprise to you? He was injured and didn't handle his injury well and is hearing it from the fans which was, and still is, completely warranted. No one is saying you can't be critical of the players, but to make blanket statements in which the numbers and common sense both refute, makes it seem like you're saying these things for shock value instead of contributing to the conversation.

Look, be critical of Woodley - god knows I am. I can also recognize that when he was healthy, he was an absolute stud and when he returns to form, he'll be a stud again. It's just a matter of time and a matter of better conditioning.

sloppyjoe
01-18-2013, 02:59 PM
You're the one that is seemingly inside Woodley's thoughts and/or conversations, why don't you tell me?

He did put weight on and this comes as a surprise to you? He was injured and didn't handle his injury well and is hearing it from the fans which was, and still is, completely warranted. No one is saying you can't be critical of the players, but to make blanket statements in which the numbers and common sense both refute, makes it seem like you're saying these things for shock value instead of contributing to the conversation.

Look, be critical of Woodley - god knows I am. I can also recognize that when he was healthy, he was an absolute stud and when he returns to form, he'll be a stud again. It's just a matter of time and a matter of better conditioning.

where are your FACTS and STATISTICS that you claim to use when supporting your BS?
Show me the fact that you know woodley put on weight.
show me how just because you think woodley will get back into shape and produce this year is a fact but you know that harrision, keisel and hampton wont so they should be cut is a fact
you dont know shit, just like i dont know shit. i can make up scenarios that i believe could have happened just as easy as you can to take the opposite side.

FrancoLambert
01-18-2013, 06:40 PM
You don't have to personally weigh Woodley to be convinced of his weight gain.
Just watch film from the 20008 season and compare it to this past season.
Seeing is believing in this case.

SteelersCanada
01-18-2013, 06:55 PM
where are your FACTS and STATISTICS that you claim to use when supporting your BS?
Show me the fact that you know woodley put on weight.
show me how just because you think woodley will get back into shape and produce this year is a fact but you know that harrision, keisel and hampton wont so they should be cut is a fact
you dont know shit, just like i dont know shit. i can make up scenarios that i believe could have happened just as easy as you can to take the opposite side.

My bullshit? So, because I can see someone got bigger than what they once were without having Woodley step onto a scale, I'm bullshitting?

I can tell you that Harrison, Keisel and Hampton won't be able to produce like they once were because they're older, slower and not able to contribute like they were back in their twenties.

Since you're trying to call out my 'bullshit' by not producing numbers, let's go look at some, ya?

Harrison is 35 years old and his cap hit will be over 10 million dollars next season. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you with big charts and statistical breakdowns that a 35 year old ROLB that has severe back and knee problems won't be able to return to form and contribute like he once did.

Keisel and Hampton are both older, 34 and 35 respectively, and their hit next year would be a combined 5+ million. Once again, they won't be able to produce the kind of play we're expecting when we could draft younger, faster and more explosive guys at these positions for cheaper.

Are those enough numbers for you? I don't understand why it's so hard to understand this. They're old and aren't contributing, but for me to say I don't expect them to in the future and because their collective cap hit is over 15 million dollars, I don't know shit? Makes sense.

sloppyjoe
01-19-2013, 09:04 PM
My bullshit? So, because I can see someone got bigger than what they once were without having Woodley step onto a scale, I'm bullshitting?

I can tell you that Harrison, Keisel and Hampton won't be able to produce like they once were because they're older, slower and not able to contribute like they were back in their twenties.

Since you're trying to call out my 'bullshit' by not producing numbers, let's go look at some, ya?

Harrison is 35 years old and his cap hit will be over 10 million dollars next season. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you with big charts and statistical breakdowns that a 35 year old ROLB that has severe back and knee problems won't be able to return to form and contribute like he once did.

Keisel and Hampton are both older, 34 and 35 respectively, and their hit next year would be a combined 5+ million. Once again, they won't be able to produce the kind of play we're expecting when we could draft younger, faster and more explosive guys at these positions for cheaper.

Are those enough numbers for you? I don't understand why it's so hard to understand this. They're old and aren't contributing, but for me to say I don't expect them to in the future and because their collective cap hit is over 15 million dollars, I don't know shit? Makes sense.

thought so, no fact on woodleys weight.
you saying woodley has put on weight and that accounted for his injuries has as much credibility as me saying woodely has tanked it because he got the big contract.
that is a fact!

SteelersCanada
01-19-2013, 09:06 PM
I hope you realize how ridiculous you seem with what you're posting. I hope I'm being trolled for your sake.

sloppyjoe
01-19-2013, 09:29 PM
I hope you realize how ridiculous you seem with what you're posting. I hope I'm being trolled for your sake.

i think you started trolling me but if it makes you feel better to make that up also, go ahead

SteelersCanada
01-19-2013, 09:32 PM
i think you started trolling me but if it makes you feel better to make that up also, go ahead

Since I can physically see that Woodley gained weight because of his injury and was ineffective because of his weight and injury, I'm a bullshitter. However, this makes as much sense as you pulling a conversation completely out of your ass about what Woodley might have said and, despite what numbers are telling you, you're sticking to this theory.

One of these things is not like the other.

sloppyjoe
01-19-2013, 09:45 PM
Since I can physically see that Woodley gained weight because of his injury and was ineffective because of his weight and injury, I'm a bullshitter. However, this makes as much sense as you pulling a conversation completely out of your ass about what Woodley might have said and, despite what numbers are telling you, you're sticking to this theory.

One of these things is not like the other.

give it up 'mr. facts'.
you didnt know his weight before the injury and you dont know it now. speculation is all you have.

SteelersCanada
01-19-2013, 10:35 PM
Thanks for the sweet new nickname, I might change my username to Mr. Facts.

Woodley weighed 265 before the injury and I'm guessing he weighs anywhere between 275 - 280 now. See, that's the difference, though. I'm just speculating on his weight - the result of my logic was sound. He was playing at a higher level and record-setting pace the year he got his big contract until he was injured. The fact that you haven't acknowledged this fact yet makes me realize that you're probably not going to. You'd rather sit there and stay with your speculation about conversations that never happened and Woodley's thought process which again, you can't ever know.

It's ok, though. I get it.

Steeler7BR
01-19-2013, 10:50 PM
Thanks for the sweet new nickname, I might change my username to Mr. Facts.

Woodley weighed 265 before the injury and I'm guessing he weighs anywhere between 275 - 280 now. See, that's the difference, though. I'm just speculating on his weight - the result of my logic was sound. He was playing at a higher level and record-setting pace the year he got his big contract until he was injured. The fact that you haven't acknowledged this fact yet makes me realize that you're probably not going to. You'd rather sit there and stay with your speculation about conversations that never happened and Woodley's thought process which again, you can't ever know.

It's ok, though. I get it.

But you have to acknowledge that he underpeformed in a big way this year. And he has to fix that We pay him I think something around 11 mil and it's hard for every OLB to make that money worth it but he not only performed not to that level since his injuries but he is an absolut failure since then. So if he comes back to his 1st half 2011 form the next season I keep my mouth shut, but he has to produce now. We can't afford another season like that from him.

teegre
01-19-2013, 11:08 PM
Woodley was not fatter this season... he just switched jerseys with Casey Hampton. Damn, y'all is dumb. :wink02:

Really though, maybe it's because four people in my household have the flu (myself included), and I'm seeing things (due to lack of sleep & due to dehydration).... but... uh... is there reeeeally a debate going on about if Woodley was fatter???

I'm no doctor, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express... and, YES!!!

TheVet
01-20-2013, 01:00 AM
LOL, sloppyjoe, do you watch the games? Do you know which one Woodley is? If so, was he is looking thin to you?

:toofunny:

SteeleReign
01-20-2013, 10:08 AM
yet....it amazes me how much i'm STILL seeing "restructure" being thrown about on this board.

As for the big contracts - look at all that elite Brinks money we threw around - much of it coming at nearly the same time.
Ben - Troy - Harrison - Woodley - Timmons - Just those contracts alone are cringe-inducing when you think about it.
I still don't know how teams like the Patriots keep coming in way under the cap and have all this wiggle room to do anything they damn well feel like doing. We're not even in the same league as putting teams/players/money together like they do.

I think our defensive scheme lends itself to cap difficulties. Think about it. Most of our defensive players don't get the opportunity to produce until years 3,4,5. By that time, the FO must decide who to pay and who not. With only one or two years of production to gauge value, mistakes are going to be made.

The Patsies get, quite often, immediate production out of rookies and get great value for these players....in other words, a rookie making $750k producing immediately...YEARS before demanding big money. Look at guys like McCourty, Spikes, Wilson, Jones, Hightower and Chung. They are producing immediately, and on the cheap.

Combined salaries of those players? $7.3mil.
Combined salaries of Hampton, Keisel, Harrison, and Taylor? $22.7mil.

Don't flame me for bringing up the Patsies. I hate 'em, but they do find ways to make their young guys relevant right away. The Steelers used to handle personnel in a much different way than they do now. Guys hitting age 30 generally were allowed to walk. Many times to my dismay, but it was hard to argue that for the most part, those decisions didn't bite us in the ass.

I LOVE LeBeau, but is it possible to get some production out of our defensive youngsters a little earlier? That way, smarter decisions on long-term contracts can be made when the time comes. :noidea:

steelfury02
01-20-2013, 10:48 AM
I think our defensive scheme lends itself to cap difficulties. Think about it. Most of our defensive players don't get the opportunity to produce until years 3,4,5. By that time, the FO must decide who to pay and who not. With only one or two years of production to gauge value, mistakes are going to be made.

The Patsies get, quite often, immediate production out of rookies and get great value for these players....in other words, a rookie making $750k producing immediately...YEARS before demanding big money. Look at guys like McCourty, Spikes, Wilson, Jones, Hightower and Chung. They are producing immediately, and on the cheap.

Combined salaries of those players? $7.3mil.
Combined salaries of Hampton, Keisel, Harrison, and Taylor? $22.7mil.

Don't flame me for bringing up the Patsies. I hate 'em, but they do find ways to make their young guys relevant right away. The Steelers used to handle personnel in a much different way that they do now. Guys hitting age 30 generally were allowed to walk. Many times to my dismay, but it was hard to argue that for the most part, those decisions didn't bite us in the ass.

I LOVE LeBeau, but is it possible to get some production out of our defensive youngsters a little earlier? That way, smarter decisions on long-term contracts can be made when the time comes. :noidea:

I believe we'll start seeing the utilization of younger guys and we'll see more trial by fire this season than ever in the Tomlin era - fantastic points - we really need to see what we have a little sooner than before - confidence building through game experience needs to be implemented - keeping guys fresh wouldn't hurt either

SteeleReign
01-20-2013, 02:53 PM
I believe we'll start seeing the utilization of younger guys and we'll see more trial by fire this season than ever in the Tomlin era - fantastic points - we really need to see what we have a little sooner than before - confidence building through game experience needs to be implemented - keeping guys fresh wouldn't hurt either

There's another reason to throw rookies into the fire. In the military we called it OJT - on the job training, Give them the opportunity to build confidence right away - as a rookie. Sure they'll make mistakes, but hopefully the veterans on the squad will make up for the rookie mistakes.

sloppyjoe
01-20-2013, 03:55 PM
LOL, sloppyjoe, do you watch the games? Do you know which one Woodley is? If so, was he is looking thin to you?

:toofunny:

obviously you dont have a clue either, but chime in anyways:banging: