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Hawaii 5-0
01-16-2013, 11:00 PM
Gerry: Did Steelers make a rash decision to sign Brown?

WEDNESDAY, 16 JANUARY 2013 WRITTEN BY GERRY DULAC

When Mike Wallace did not report with the rest of his teammates on the first day of training camp, the Steelers wasted little time reacting to his holdout: They called Antonio Brown’s agent, Drew Rosenhaus, and summoned him to Latrobe as fast as they could.

Within two days, the Steelers and Rosenhaus had crafted a new contract for Brown – a six-year extension worth $42.5 million, a big number for a player who was considered the No. 2 receiver and was entering just his third season in the league.

But, with that signing, the Steelers were telling Wallace and just about anyone else that they considered Brown, not Wallace, their No. 1 receiver.

That signing, that decision, is the reason the Steelers will not be able to re-sign Wallace, who is an unrestricted free agent. If they consider Brown to be their No. 1 receiver – and his signing would certainly suggest that – then the Steelers are not going to sign Wallace to a contract bigger than the one they gave Brown. Their pay structure doesn’t operate that way.

Wallace already rejected a contract larger than that during last offseason. He is not going to accept anything less right now, even after a season in which he did not register the number of big plays to which he is accustomed.

So did the Steelers react emotionally and make a rash decision to hurriedly sign Brown?

An argument could be made to suggest they did.

Here’s why:

The Steelers signed Brown to a big contract extension because he was coming off a season in which he became the first player in NFL history to have 1,000 receiving yards and 1,000 return yards in the same season. Brown also made the Pro Bowl as a return specialist.

Also, Brown looked to be the better and more productive receiver than Wallace in the second half of the 2011 season. He had 51 of his 69 catches and 846 of his 1,108 receiving yards in the final 10 games of the season. Wallace, meantime, had only 19 catches for 271 yards in the final six games.

But there was a reason for that.

When it became apparent to the coaches that Hines Ward could no longer be an effective receiver, the Steelers moved Brown to the split end, or X, position in their offense because he did not know the plays or assignments at Ward’s position – flanker. Split end is more of a big-play position with deeper routes and opportunities for more catches. The Steelers moved Wallace to flanker (or Z receiver), where he had more inside routes and blocking assignments.

Not surprisingly, Brown’s production increased and Wallace’s decreased. This year, the Steelers moved Wallace back to the split-end position, and he finished as their most targeted receiver. He finished with 64 catches and tied for the team lead with eight TDs.

Brown finished with 66 catches and only five TDs, but he was never really the same late in the season after missing three games with a high-ankle sprain.

Now, the Steelers are poised to lose Wallace, who is one of the few receivers in the league who can run past any defensive back, no matter the coverage. And their receiving corps will suffer a big setback. There is still some question if Brown is really a No. 1 receiver.

Could this have been avoided if the Steelers didn’t make such a rash decision? Perhaps. Then again, the Steelers felt as though they would never be able to meet Wallace’s contract demands and decided to make sure they would at least get one of their top receivers under contract.

Either way, what happened in July will go a long way toward impacting what will happen now.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/119524-gerry-did-steelers-make-a-rash-decision-to-sign-brown

lloydwoodson
01-16-2013, 11:13 PM
The Steelers absolutely overpaid Brown versus what he had actually produced to that point. Brown is still a very good receiver but I pointed out he got almost exactly the same contract as Brandon Marshall who is a guaranteed 100 catch 10 td receiver.

I am not going to bother comparing his salary to other receivers but I do recall his wage is very generous. All in all Brown's attitude is refreshing (minus walking into the end zone backwards on the punt return that was called back). Brown will be a solid 80 catch 6-8 td receiver for years to come.

I just hope they can re-sign Wallace. He had one terrible game vs Cincinatti now everyone hates him. :doh:

steeltheone
01-17-2013, 04:57 AM
I also agree that they overpaid Brown. He is a good number 2. They are pretty easy to find.

wwhickok
01-17-2013, 05:58 AM
The Steelers absolutely overpaid Brown versus what he had actually produced to that point. Brown is still a very good receiver but I pointed out he got almost exactly the same contract as Brandon Marshall who is a guaranteed 100 catch 10 td receiver.

I am not going to bother comparing his salary to other receivers but I do recall his wage is very generous. All in all Brown's attitude is refreshing (minus walking into the end zone backwards on the punt return that was called back). Brown will be a solid 80 catch 6-8 td receiver for years to come.

I just hope they can re-sign Wallace. He had one terrible game vs Cincinatti now everyone hates him. :doh:

First of all that couldn't be further from the truth.


The hatred for Wallace started vs. Denver last season when he had a couple huge drops in the playoff game. Since that time he has held out, been selfish, admitted he isn't focused, had several drops inluding some that played significNt roles in games..

Wallace put himself where he is with the fans. As for brown, did they over pay? Probably but all of our receivers had a bad season so I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I like brown a lot and I am glad we kept him.

Vis
01-17-2013, 06:41 AM
Every hurt player is overpaid by this type of thinking. Ben was overpaid. Troy was. DeCastro certainly was.

Kingmagyar
01-17-2013, 06:50 AM
In no way is Brown making anywhere near Brandon Marshall money. His contract since it was an extension that included his last year is actually a reasonable amount of money to pay a 1,000 yard+ receiver who would have had those numbers again if not for injury. He is an incredible hard worker and will only get even better. His hands to make the catch are phenomenal . Besides where would they be now without his signing. Wallace gone, and Brown restricted and possibly leaving after the year? Brown's money would have only been even higher had they waited.

The guy had like 3 returns for TDs called back this year and he was the best receiver on the team.

I think it's one of the best moves they have ever made breaking protocol and signing someone when they were only a RFA. They may try to do the same with E Sanders but for not nearly as much.

ETL
01-17-2013, 07:12 AM
If brown plays as he did 2 years ago, this deal is a bargain.

For now I wouldn't be so stupid to proclaim that the Steelers overpaid a guy just after 1 year into the deal. If he has a great season next year - there will be a parade of "eating crow" posts by these premature ejaculators.

It still needs to be seen whether we over paid him or not but I for one am glad that he will be on the team next year.

teegre
01-17-2013, 07:46 AM
I also agree that they overpaid Brown. He is a good number 2. They are pretty easy to find.

The amount that AB is being paid IS #2 money. So, Yes, it's perfect.

kan_t
01-17-2013, 08:02 AM
It's just the first year of his new deal and without the injury he would still be on pace to have a 1000 receving yards season. There is no rush to draw the conclusion about whether the Steelers overpay him.

Darkstorm05
01-17-2013, 08:43 AM
Wow. Brown being compared unfavorably to Wallace when the guy was badly injured for a third of the season? Maybe it's time to go hibernate until draft week.

TRH
01-17-2013, 08:44 AM
more 2nd-guessing in Steelerland than ever before. Lots of backseat drivers.

Thats what guys make nowadays doing what he does. He's a strong #2 receiver. End of story.
And at the time....
We didn't think we'd sign Wallace - and we STILL probably (no, make that surely, won't). Would really suck if they both left, wouldn't it? Then people would be saying "why didn't we pay him that money??......."

lipps83
01-17-2013, 10:22 AM
Wow. Brown being compared unfavorably to Wallace when the guy was badly injured for a third of the season? Maybe it's time to go hibernate until draft week.

Exactly. When you look at the stat line (especially for those just interested in Fantasy Football, and not real football) you tend to look at just receptions, yards, TD's. Not games played.

That has a tendency to really skew the numbers.

SteelersCanada
01-17-2013, 11:06 AM
Gerry Dulac needs to just stop. It's like he's writing for a headline and putting out bullshit skewed facts to prove his 'point'. I'm using the word point a little fast and loose when describing Dulac, though.

ZoneBlitzer
01-17-2013, 11:15 AM
Scary and revealing article.

BlaZeQuietly
01-17-2013, 11:37 AM
Brown is not a #2 receiver he is a #1 receiver, he plays like he wants to win unlike Wallace, not to mention has way better hands. This team only has a few players that really act like they give a shit if we win or lose, those being ben, brown, harrison, and lewis, who hopefully we find a way to keep.

BlaZeQuietly
01-17-2013, 11:38 AM
Next season I would be plenty happy with Brown as #1 Sanders as #2 and Cotchery as #3 Anyone know if we will still have Plax? If so him and Cotch could split time, and we'd have a little extra depth at the position.

edit: to answer the origional question, yeah we paid quite a bit but we locked up a great player, better we gave him the deal not Wallace, and someone mentioned Wallace had a bad game against the bangles? Wallace had a bad season against everyone this year, not just cinci, wow.

OX1947
01-17-2013, 11:59 AM
Antonio Brown came off a season doing something that no PLAYER in the history of the NFL had done. Have a 1000 yards receiving and 1000 yards returning in the same season. Made THE clutch catch of the year in 2010-11 for the Steelers in the B-More playoff game to come back from a 14 point deficit.

He was paid for performance plus the future. He had a high ankle sprain this year that derailed his entire season. High Ankle sprains are sometimes worse then a sprained knee. Especially for a guy who's entire game is predicated on quick stops and go.

BlaZeQuietly
01-17-2013, 12:06 PM
Brown has great hands, reminds me of hines ward/santonio holmes a little.

steeltheone
01-17-2013, 12:11 PM
Wow. Brown being compared unfavorably to Wallace when the guy was badly injured for a third of the season? Maybe it's time to go hibernate until draft week.

His stats and performance were poor before the injury.

wwhickok
01-17-2013, 12:29 PM
I might also add that Brown made some big plays after initially returning from injury.

steelfury02
01-17-2013, 12:58 PM
I might also add that Brown made some big plays after initially returning from injury.

I like the big play where he fumbles the ball - I say that jokingly - but yes, just not enough to overcome other players' lack of effort

Edman
01-17-2013, 01:13 PM
I just hope they can re-sign Wallace. He had one terrible game vs Cincinatti now everyone hates him. :doh:

Wallace has had more than "one bad game". He's been playing lackluster going all the back to 2011. Then came the holdout, which didn't win him many fans. Then he came back, then he proceeded to play miserable in 2012. His constant whining about the offense and the fans combined with his questionable effort on the field turned fans against him.

Fire Arians
01-17-2013, 01:33 PM
i would consider the possibility of re-signing wallace if he didn't punk out of the last game as a 'business decision'. he showed the world that he is not a team player, so i wouldn't even want him for a cheap price. players like that are a cancer on the team

what message would we be sending to the team by paying big bucks to a guy who doesn't give 100%? that it's okay to halfass it because you'll get yours if you have talent? come on man

antonio brown had a down season but you know what, the offense was definitely more affected with brown out than with wallace out. we signed the right guy, wallace can walk his ass out of town

LVSteelersfan
01-17-2013, 02:16 PM
Do you people have any idea what #1 receivers make in this league? AB's contract is about right as he is basically a #2. We still need that big posession receiver who can catch balls in traffic. Perhaps Plaxico will come back and fill that role. Who knows?

BlaZeQuietly
01-17-2013, 02:19 PM
Do you people have any idea what #1 receivers make in this league? AB's contract is about right as he is basically a #2. We still need that big posession receiver who can catch balls in traffic. Perhaps Plaxico will come back and fill that role. Who knows?

Brown is a #1 receiver how can you not think so?:

Steeler7BR
01-17-2013, 02:21 PM
i would consider the possibility of re-signing wallace if he didn't punk out of the last game as a 'business decision'. he showed the world that he is not a team player, so i wouldn't even want him for a cheap price. players like that are a cancer on the team

what message would we be sending to the team by paying big bucks to a guy who doesn't give 100%? that it's okay to halfass it because you'll get yours if you have talent? come on man

antonio brown had a down season but you know what, the offense was definitely more affected with brown out than with wallace out. we signed the right guy, wallace can walk his ass out of town

Give Wallace a break here!!! It's our own fault that we left him out in the dust that way. Of course he's not running into every tackle with a uncertain future. I rather give up a higher contract for Wallace then just be there with Brown after everythings said and done. Or do you honestly make the statement here that Antonio Brown is a better Receiver that Mike Wallce?!?!

Common man he's not. We should have re-signed him for a big long term contract before the season. I rather give up a higher contract for Wallace then just be there with Brown after everythings said and done.

Now I think It's almost necessary to get rid of Wallace because of the situation with Brown. I don't think they're a good #1 and #2 Wide Receiver duo together. I would have made the case to sign Brown as a Slot Receiver and rotating guy for Wallace as our #1 Receiver and a tall #2 we should draft this year. But with that type of money for Brown we can get rid of that idea. So I would say we get rid of Wallace. Make Brown our #1 get a tall #2 this year high in the draft (Round 1or 2) and leave Sanders in the Slot.

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-17-2013, 02:22 PM
Do you people have any idea what #1 receivers make in this league? AB's contract is about right as he is basically a #2. We still need that big posession receiver who can catch balls in traffic. Perhaps Plaxico will come back and fill that role. Who knows?

I do see Antonio Brown developing into that guy in the coming seasons, although he is not there yet.

However, I think Cotchery fills that role nicely right now.

We would have been better off with Cotchery playing the left side than Mike Wallace. We have won 2 SBs without a speedster receiver, and with Ben throwing to the likes of Nate Washington and Cedric Wilson-- we don't need Wallace. Serve him his walking papers.

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-17-2013, 02:23 PM
Brown is a #1 receiver how can you not think so?:

Because that is NOT the role he was asked to play this year. Walace was our #1 WR.

LVSteelersfan
01-17-2013, 02:25 PM
Sorry, # receivers can go up in traffic and haul down those high passes when they have three players draped on them. Andre Johnson and Calvin Johnson types. Brown is too small and not strong enough to fight it out for loose balls. I like him a lot but don't think he is the ultimate #1 type receiver. He is perfect in the slot where #2 receivers play.

He also needs to get his head out and learn to hang onto the ball in traffic. He had at least 3 or 4 boneheaded plays down the stretch that helped us lose games. It wasn't all on Wallace. That fumble on the punt return (or was it a kickoff) against Dallas basically cost us the game that would have put us in the playoffs.

BlaZeQuietly
01-17-2013, 02:49 PM
Wallace isnt exactly a big/tall guy either.

teegre
01-17-2013, 03:09 PM
Wallace isnt exactly a big/tall guy either.

Same height & weight as Hines Ward... but, smaller cheek-bones.

Fire Arians
01-17-2013, 03:13 PM
Give Wallace a break here!!! It's our own fault that we left him out in the dust that way. Of course he's not running into every tackle with a uncertain future. I rather give up a higher contract for Wallace then just be there with Brown after everythings said and done. Or do you honestly make the statement here that Antonio Brown is a better Receiver that Mike Wallce?!?!

Common man he's not. We should have re-signed him for a big long term contract before the season. I rather give up a higher contract for Wallace then just be there with Brown after everythings said and done.

Now I think It's almost necessary to get rid of Wallace because of the situation with Brown. I don't think they're a good #1 and #2 Wide Receiver duo together. I would have made the case to sign Brown as a Slot Receiver and rotating guy for Wallace as our #1 Receiver and a tall #2 we should draft this year. But with that type of money for Brown we can get rid of that idea. So I would say we get rid of Wallace. Make Brown our #1 get a tall #2 this year high in the draft (Round 1or 2) and leave Sanders in the Slot.

I'm not gonna give him a break, ever. not for the money he's asking for and not even 900 yards for the season? quite a statement he made there as a top tier receiver! You'd expect that kinda numbers if you have john skelton throwing passes to you, but not ben roethlisberger who's a top 5 qb. what a joke. i for one and going to be glad he's gone

pete74
01-17-2013, 04:15 PM
I'm not gonna give him a break, ever. not for the money he's asking for and not even 900 yards for the season? quite a statement he made there as a top tier receiver! You'd expect that kinda numbers if you have john skelton throwing passes to you, but not ben roethlisberger who's a top 5 qb. what a joke. i for one and going to be glad he's gone

What money is he asking for? Don't tell me Fitzgerald money because we all know those are rumors. As for him only having 900 yards, he had more yards and ttouchdownsthen Brown and hhe's making way less. Everyone wants to hang Wallace because he isn't signed like Brown but in reality they both sucked equally and the only difference is Brown is making much more money.

steelfury02
01-17-2013, 04:25 PM
What money is he asking for? Don't tell me Fitzgerald money because we all know those are rumors. As for him only having 900 yards, he had more yards and ttouchdownsthen Brown and hhe's making way less. Everyone wants to hang Wallace because he isn't signed like Brown but in reality they both sucked equally and the only difference is Brown is making much more money.

I disagree - there was 1 difference - attitude

and then, I won't get into the Brown injury

What's Wallace's excuse? He's making way less because he made a decision IMO - not because the Steelers didn't make an offer.

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-17-2013, 04:28 PM
What money is he asking for? Don't tell me Fitzgerald money because we all know those are rumors.

No, that was per the team's website, Wallace himself in interviews, and Wallace's agent.

As for him only having 900 yards, he had more yards and ttouchdownsthen Brown and hhe's making way less.

Look how many times Wallace was targetted this season as opposed to Antonio....Brown isn't going to get yards if we are always trying to force the ball to our trojan horse #17.

Everyone wants to hang Wallace because he isn't signed like Brown but in reality they both sucked equally and the only difference is Brown is making much more money.
Brown works hard and was expected to be a nobody (6th rounder). He earned his contract and had a down year. He did not hold out for a paychedck he did not earn.

One guy overachieved (Brown), while one guy underachieved (Wallace). Not coincidentally, the guy who underachieved, is the same one that was screaming for a bigger paycheck

steelfury02
01-17-2013, 04:30 PM
I'd just like to move on from the whole Wallace thing and talk about either a new WR to contribute or what role Cotch could have

Fire Arians
01-17-2013, 04:53 PM
What money is he asking for? Don't tell me Fitzgerald money because we all know those are rumors. As for him only having 900 yards, he had more yards and ttouchdownsthen Brown and hhe's making way less. Everyone wants to hang Wallace because he isn't signed like Brown but in reality they both sucked equally and the only difference is Brown is making much more money.

he didn't deny the rumors, and he turned down an offer bigger than what they offered brown (99% likely), so it must be true.

FrancoLambert
01-17-2013, 05:05 PM
What gets me the most about Wallace is his lack of all-out effort.
I can't get the image of him just watching Brandon Carr from the Cowboys run down the sidelines after that interception in Dallas out of my mind.
We don't need more guys like that, at 8-8 we need to get rid of them.
Cotchery's got less natural talent but more heart, he can assume a bigger role in the offense if given the chance.
As for signing Brown, not rash but a steep price was paid.

Steel95
01-17-2013, 05:13 PM
Brown has the potential, he needs to grow up and stop the damm show-boating!

steelfury02
01-17-2013, 05:15 PM
What gets me the most about Wallace is his lack of all-out effort.
I can't get the image of him just watching Brandon Carr from the Cowboys run down the sidelines after that interception in Dallas out of my mind.
We don't need more guys like that, at 8-8 we need to get rid of them.
Cotchery's got less natural talent but more heart, he can assume a bigger role in the offense if given the chance.
As for signing Brown, not rash but a steep price was paid.

The Steelers win Super Bowls on heart and determination - not on pure speed(talent) alone - you can laugh at that idea as much as you want and call it silly - but, guys like Wallace come and go - I don't care about his world class speed - his attitude trumped it. I want a guy like Cotch who is going to put his body to the fire to catch that ball and WANTS to get more chances regardless of what that role might entail. You get paid six figures to millions of dollars - how about something from you on your end huh? No one guy, not even Ben, is bigger than the legacy built through the past 40+ years.

Guys like Stallworth, Lambert, Bradshaw, Franco, Rocky had to have 2nd jobs and even go off to war for god's sake - you think 1 guy can just simply get by on 10 mil and shut the hell up and play his heart out?

You play a game - either give it your all or get the hell out of here. Its as simple as that.

lloydwoodson
01-17-2013, 05:54 PM
In no way is Brown making anywhere near Brandon Marshall money. His contract since it was an extension that included his last year is actually a reasonable amount of money to pay a 1,000 yard+ receiver who would have had those numbers again if not for injury. He is an incredible hard worker and will only get even better. His hands to make the catch are phenomenal . Besides where would they be now without his signing. Wallace gone, and Brown restricted and possibley leaving after the year? Brown's money would have only been even higher had they waited.

You better check your facts before you disagree with one of my posts because I always check the facts.

"After reviewing Marshall’s contract, which originally was a 5-year, $47.3 million deal struck with the Dolphins in April 2010, the Bears will owe him a little more than half of that for three seasons." --- Chicago Tribune.

"Wide receiver Antonio Brown signed a five-year contract extension Friday with the Pittsburgh Steelers. The deal is worth $42.5 million." --- ESPN.

I would say those are similar contracts.

Brandon Marshall 118 REC 1508 YDS 11 TDS
Antonio Brown 66 REC 787 YDS 5 TDS

Brown made the Probowl as a kick returner... he no longer returns kicks. All I said was that he is overpaid versus the performance he had shown (he had 2 career receiving TDs when the deal was signed). I know, I know... stats don't matter... Brown is amazing and Wallace sucks and it has nothing to do with Wallace holding out.

Brown is making more than AJ Green, Julio Jones or Dez Bryant because those guys are on their rookie contracts still. Which is a point I made in the "Defense has twice the salary the offense has" post- that young players make less than old players regardless of ability.

So I don't think you can accurately say Brown is making #2 WR money because if someone looked into it I bet there are a lot of teams that don't pay their top WR 8 M/Yr.

zcoop
01-17-2013, 05:56 PM
I don't think the Steelers overpaid AB, he got what the market called for. However, contrary to some on this board, they got a real bargain for Wallace thus far. HIs rookie contract was worth 1.74m and last years tender of 2.74m totals less than 4.5m. Given the stats that he's put up over the last 4 years, there is no doubt in logical minds that the Steelers got the most out of the relationship. Wallace earned every penny he got and more.

lloydwoodson
01-17-2013, 06:13 PM
I don't think the Steelers overpaid AB, he got what the market called for. However, contrary to some on this board, they got a real bargain for Wallace thus far. HIs rookie contract was worth 1.74m and last years tender of 2.74m totals less than 4.5m. Given the stats that he's put up over the last 4 years, there is no doubt in logical minds that the Steelers got the most out of the relationship. Wallace earned every penny he got and more.

Very good point.

Millers the sh!t
01-17-2013, 06:20 PM
Besides a few dropped passes here and there, Brown is the man. The front office knows it. He is one of the more dedicated players Tomlin has drafted. Steelers wanted to lock him up before his contract expired and before the potential Wallace deal could pollute Browns mind and fuck up negotiations later down stream. I like Brown he is a hard worker, team player and is good for the teams image and the city.

Anyone who has a problem with Brown walking into the endzone backwards on that negated TD can go drink some gasoline. It ain't no different than high stepping, dancing, or waiving at an opposing player as you are going into the endzone. All of which never drew flags. Browns a great player. Besides Heath, Brown is one of the most dedicated, hardworking and consistent players on offense. I will be owning his jersey soon.

Cheers to Antonio Brown. To staying true to yourself and not letting money or fame poison your commitment.

zcoop
01-17-2013, 06:24 PM
Besides a few dropped passes here and there, Brown is the man. The front office knows it. He is one of the more dedicated players Tomlin has drafted. Steelers wanted to lock him up before his contract expired and before the potential Wallace deal could pollute Browns mind and fuck up negotiations later down stream. I like Brown he is a hard worker, team player and is good for the teams image and the city.

Anyone who has a problem with Brown walking into the endzone backwards on that negated TD can go drink some gasoline. It ain't no different than high stepping, dancing, or waiving at an opposing player as you are going into the endzone. All of which never drew flags. Browns a great player. Besides Heath, Brown is one of the most dedicated, hardworking and consistent players on offense. I will be owning his jersey soon.

Cheers to Antonio Brown. To staying true to yourself and not letting money or fame poison your commitment.

Some of you must think this is the fucking plantation. Pollute Brown's mind? We're talking about grown azz men. Miss me with that bullshit.

pete74
01-17-2013, 06:33 PM
No, that was per the team's website, Wallace himself in interviews, and Wallace's agent.



Look how many times Wallace was targetted this season as opposed to Antonio....Brown isn't going to get yards if we are always trying to force the ball to our trojan horse #17.


Brown works hard and was expected to be a nobody (6th rounder). He earned his contract and had a down year. He did not hold out for a paychedck he did not earn.

One guy overachieved (Brown), while one guy underachieved (Wallace). Not coincidentally, the guy who underachieved, is the same one that was screaming for a bigger paycheck

Ok then post were wallace or his agent said he wanted Fitz money? As for Browns targets, if your open and the QB has faith in you then you get targets. Maybe he needs to run better routs, I don'tknow but if you think Brown had a good year then iIwould hate to see a bbad year. I'mnot saying wallace is great or anything , I think they both had a bad year but wallace definatly outperformed Brown

pete74
01-17-2013, 06:38 PM
he didn't deny the rumors, and he turned down an offer bigger than what they offered brown (99% likely), so it must be true.

He didn't deny them, he kept his mouth shut like he was supposed to so he didn'tfeed the media .
Personally I would rather keep Wallace then Brown if we could give him Browns contract but that dosnt matter becauseI Brown is here and Wallace will be gone . I just like Brown better as a #2 wr then a #1. Maybe we will take a WR round 1 and it will work out that way. Who knows. I'm just giving my opinion

SteelerEmpire
01-17-2013, 06:40 PM
Every single receiver (except Miller, in my opinion) on this team has an issue. Brown got paid, then dropped off in performance. Wallace didn't get paid, then dropped off in performance. Seems like money is the jinx. I've "never" been to big on Sanders. Plexico and Jerricho still have to be given enough chances to prove themselves on "this" team.
But will the Steelers lose an advantage if Wallace leaves ? Yes.
Is there an issue with motivation with Wallace ? Yes... but that's also true with the majority of players on this team !

Steelers5895
01-17-2013, 06:42 PM
Brown is a playmaker for sure. I am not sure he can be a #1 when Wallace leaves. If he is a #1 he is no longer going to return punts or will be limited in that role.

He makes big catches, can do with all the attention he tries to get himself everytime he catches the ball (which is his job).

Brown will be a 1000 yard 8 TD wr for the length of his contract.

Who plays opposite him is anyones guess

SteelerEmpire
01-17-2013, 06:43 PM
I don't think the Steelers overpaid AB, he got what the market called for. However, contrary to some on this board, they got a real bargain for Wallace thus far. HIs rookie contract was worth 1.74m and last years tender of 2.74m totals less than 4.5m. Given the stats that he's put up over the last 4 years, there is no doubt in logical minds that the Steelers got the most out of the relationship. Wallace earned every penny he got and more.

Spot on and very logical conclusion. But you can't tell some fans that. Just mention the name "Wallace" and they come back with an automatic, negative response.

Steelers5895
01-17-2013, 06:57 PM
I don't think the Steelers overpaid AB, he got what the market called for. However, contrary to some on this board, they got a real bargain for Wallace thus far. HIs rookie contract was worth 1.74m and last years tender of 2.74m totals less than 4.5m. Given the stats that he's put up over the last 4 years, there is no doubt in logical minds that the Steelers got the most out of the relationship. Wallace earned every penny he got and more.

i agree year 1-3 for sure. But, that doesnt give him a pass for his performance in 2012. Dropped passes, half a$$ed run routes, minimal efforts on passes he had to go all out for. He played poorly and its a what have you done for me lately league.

i can live with drops, cant live with poor efforts.

now, i totally get it, steelers DO NOT show loyalty to any players , if in the eyes of the organization a player is done or asking too much they are gone. so, i understand Wallace making business decisions.

Millers the sh!t
01-17-2013, 07:36 PM
Some of you must think this is the fucking plantation. Pollute Brown's mind? We're talking about grown azz men. Miss me with that bullshit.

Yea, those slave driving rooneys are gonna pay that slave antonio brown $39 million dollars more in five years than this ****** will ever make in his lifetime. Brown plays the game with passion. Great players usually play the game with passion and would play no matter the pay scale. When big money comes into the factor it can change a person. Like Wallace for example. What the difference in making 80 million in a career or being a piece of shit greedy douchebag and hold out to try and make 100 million in a career. That's a person who plays for greed and money. Plays for the wrong reason and is usually a bad person to have in the locker room. Keep your plantation comments to yourself cause your boy Mikey doesn't appreciate the situation he's in and totally changed his ways for the bad when money came into the picture. Your boy Mikes is one greedy slave and is the type of person that will have a $100 million in his lifetime and still be filing for bankruptcy before he's 50. Cause that's also the white plantation owners fault. Get real Django, don't ever compare overpaid black men with more rights and privileges than most Americans than under paid whipped black men that would be beaten if they knew how to read, you scumbag.

austinfrench76
01-17-2013, 07:51 PM
What the hell is that guy talking about "plantation "???!! Get the f outta here. But be fair to Brown here too. He isn't being asked to do what he did a couple of years ago either. He was a great return man then. How many times did he return kicks this year? And when he did he was explosive, even when he fumbled in Dallas he was having another good return. IMO that played into him being a pro bowler and getting that contract. Now, it makes sense that you don't pay a guy that kind of money and ask him to return kicks when you just drafted Rainey. I think Brown is a stud. We had a bad year all around. Next years his true test anyways, no more Wallace means double coverage. Then we'll know what we have.

SteelCity4Life
01-17-2013, 08:03 PM
Ok then post were wallace or his agent said he wanted Fitz money? As for Browns targets, if your open and the QB has faith in you then you get targets. Maybe he needs to run better routs, I don'tknow but if you think Brown had a good year then iIwould hate to see a bbad year. I'mnot saying wallace is great or anything , I think they both had a bad year but wallace definatly outperformed Brown

I don't think basically TOSSING THE BALL UP for the CLEVELAND BROWNS is outperforming.

Wallace had those few good touchdowns, but how much did it honestly matter?

Brown is in NO WAY perfect, but his attitude is 100 % BETTER! Yeah, so a little too much show-boating. I agree. But the man has the smile and the heart of a player who wants to succeed, along with his team.

Ben got hurt, Brown got hurt, our offense caved in and all out lost it for us. But I'm GLAD Brown is staying. He's made some GREAT catches and IDC about stats. Some of his receptions have been pretty!

Who has the better future? A guy who wants Fitz money, yet can't run routes, and only has speed? Or a guy who has potential, the heart of a winner, and the attitude to go the distance? Brown can only get better.

If we can't afford Wallace, let him walk. I'd like a bomb threat option too but as someone else stated, we won 2 superbowls without that. Brown is the better overall player and I think time will prove that.

Oh, and HEEEEATTTTHHHH :tt02:

zcoop
01-17-2013, 08:37 PM
Yea, those slave driving rooneys are gonna pay that slave antonio brown $39 million dollars more in five years than this ****** will ever make in his lifetime. Brown plays the game with passion. Great players usually play the game with passion and would play no matter the pay scale. When big money comes into the factor it can change a person. Like Wallace for example. What the difference in making 80 million in a career or being a piece of shit greedy douchebag and hold out to try and make 100 million in a career. That's a person who plays for greed and money. Plays for the wrong reason and is usually a bad person to have in the locker room. Keep your plantation comments to yourself cause your boy Mikey doesn't appreciate the situation he's in and totally changed his ways for the bad when money came into the picture. Your boy Mikes is one greedy slave and is the type of person that will have a $100 million in his lifetime and still be filing for bankruptcy before he's 50. Cause that's also the white plantation owners fault. Get real Django, don't ever compare overpaid black men with more rights and privileges than most Americans than under paid whipped black men that would be beaten if they knew how to read, you scumbag.

I see that my point went over your little head. Let me splain it to you like you're 4. AB is his own man and very capable of making his own decisions. Wallace doesn't have any influence over him. You insinuated that AB is this dummy incapable of intelligent thought. Wallace is his own man and also capable of making decisions he deems necessary which maximizes his bottom line. You went off on a real wild fucking tangent. Go back and read my post, I don't see where you could have gotten this far off track.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-17-2013, 10:04 PM
The signing of Brown was a good decision. He is the best WR on the team and likely to return to form next season...BUT he will need help as there wont be a great WR opposite him with speed like Wallace.

Draft, Free Agency or something. Cant really run with just Sanders on the other side.

Kingmagyar
01-18-2013, 05:34 AM
You better check your facts before you disagree with one of my posts because I always check the facts.



Seems you forgot one little fact.

What the word "extension" means in regards to a contract. Don't worry I will always check the real facts before I disagree with one of your posts.

Brown was an extension which means it's really for six years at 42.5 mil.
Around 7.08 mil per year and not very front loaded. More money is in the back end where if Brown would somehow become a bust he would never see that money.

Marshall is making 9.46 mil per year and I'm sure it was front loaded a ton with a lot of guaranteed money as well and big cap hits over 9 mil his remaining three seasons.

So just so you have the facts since you always check the facts

Brown 7.08 mil per season
Marshall 9.46 mil per season

Here are the exaxt facts about Brown's contract

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/07/antonio-brown-contract-breakdown/

ZoneBlitzer
01-18-2013, 12:52 PM
Why is no one talking about this point made in the article?

. Also, Brown looked to be the better and more productive receiver than Wallace in the second half of the 2011 season. He had 51 of his 69 catches and 846 of his 1,108 receiving yards in the final 10 games of the season. Wallace, meantime, had only 19 catches for 271 yards in the final six games.

But there was a reason for that.

When it became apparent to the coaches that Hines Ward could no longer be an effective receiver, the Steelers moved Brown to the split end, or X, position in their offense because he did not know the plays or assignments at Ward’s position – flanker. Split end is more of a big-play position with deeper routes and opportunities for more catches. The Steelers moved Wallace to flanker (or Z receiver), where he had more inside routes and blocking assignments.

Not surprisingly, Brown’s production increased and Wallace’s decreased. This year, the Steelers moved Wallace back to the split-end position, and he finished as their most targeted receiver. He finished with 64 catches and tied for the team lead with eight TDs.

Brown finished with 66 catches and only five TDs, but he was never really the same late in the season after missing three games with a high-ankle sprain.

SteelerEmpire
01-18-2013, 01:17 PM
Why is no one talking about this point made in the article?

When it became apparent to the coaches that Hines Ward could no longer be an effective receiver, the Steelers moved Brown to the split end, or X, position in their offense because he did not know the plays or assignments at Ward’s position – flanker. Split end is more of a big-play position with deeper routes and opportunities for more catches. The Steelers moved Wallace to flanker (or Z receiver), where he had more inside routes and blocking assignments.

Yep. Those are the facts. There's a REASON Mike Wallace was made the #1 receiver over Brown by the Steelers brass. I haven't looked it up buy my guess is, when you measure Wallace's production at split-end vs Browns production, is Wallace out-produces Brown at that position.

BlaZeQuietly
01-18-2013, 01:38 PM
Guys, Guys look:
Wallace: Targeted 119 times, 836 yards, 8 TD, 55.7 yards per games
Brown Targeted 105 times 787 yards 5 TD, 60.5 yards per game

Wallace was targeted 14 more times, had 49 more total yards 3 more touch downs and averages 5 LESS yards than Brown per game. Brown was hurt for the last half of the seasons. And I can't find a stat on this but I can guarantee Wallace dropped way more passes and didn't even try for some. Neither of them were that impressive this year. Wallace just looked like he wasn't into it.
By The Way
Miller: Targeted 101 times, 816 yards, 8 TD, 54.4 yrds per game ZERO Fumbles. I hope He's healthy by next season.

Brown, Wallace and Saunders had 2 fumbles a piece. Whose our more reliable target? MILLER!

BlaZeQuietly
01-18-2013, 01:41 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers

We were lucky to be 8-8 with these stats! Look at our running backs, wow. This was the worst steeler team in 10 years easy.

SteelerEmpire
01-18-2013, 03:25 PM
Guys, Guys look:
Wallace: Targeted 119 times, 836 yards, 8 TD, 55.7 yards per games
Brown Targeted 105 times 787 yards 5 TD, 60.5 yards per game

Wallace was targeted 14 more times, had 49 more total yards 3 more touch downs and averages 5 LESS yards than Brown per game. Brown was hurt for the last half of the seasons. And I can't find a stat on this but I can guarantee Wallace dropped way more passes and didn't even try for some. Neither of them were that impressive this year. Wallace just looked like he wasn't into it.
By The Way
Miller: Targeted 101 times, 816 yards, 8 TD, 54.4 yrds per game ZERO Fumbles. I hope He's healthy by next season.

Brown, Wallace and Saunders had 2 fumbles a piece. Whose our more reliable target? MILLER!

Was this at the split-end position ? I agree with the assessment regarding Miller. Without him this team loses 2 or 3 more games last season.

steelfury02
01-18-2013, 03:47 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers

We were lucky to be 8-8 with these stats! Look at our running backs, wow. This was the worst steeler team in 10 years easy.

and the defense STILL held opponents to less rushing than our team

pczach
01-18-2013, 05:20 PM
I don't think they overpaid Antonio Brown. I also think Mike Wallace has outplayed his contract. The difference between the two is obvious.

AB was named team mvp in 2011. Everyone on the team that was asked about AB stated he was the hardest worker on the team. He constantly worked on his game. His route running, his hands, his footwork, releasing at the line of scrimmage. He also is a great returner and open field runner.

Mike Wallace has not improved one bit over the last two seasons. He still doesn't run good routes. His hands are not good, and to be more specific, his hands in traffic are downright awful. He has an inability to elevate for the football and get his feet in bounds. He doesn't compete for balls that are not perfectly thrown and has some of the worst ball skills with the ball in the air that I have ever seen for a receiver that many think is a #1. The worst part is that you never hear other players, coaches, or media talk about how he is working his ass off perfecting his craft. Antonio Brown did that. He gave that effort. We have not seen this from Wallace.

That sounds like harsh criticism for a receiver that makes what Wallace makes a year. The problem is that he is asking for 10-12 million dollars a year. I think the Steelers moved him to the prominent receiver position to give him a chance to show them what he could do. I believe he has shown all of us what he did with that opportunity. Do I think he can improve? Yes. But if a man looking for a big contract can't work his ass off and give it everything he has, what makes you think he will work to get better after he gets his money?

Just sayin'...

lloydwoodson
01-19-2013, 01:55 PM
Seems you forgot one little fact.

What the word "extension" means in regards to a contract. Don't worry I will always check the real facts before I disagree with one of your posts.

Brown was an extension which means it's really for six years at 42.5 mil.
Around 7.08 mil per year and not very front loaded. More money is in the back end where if Brown would somehow become a bust he would never see that money.

Marshall is making 9.46 mil per year and I'm sure it was front loaded a ton with a lot of guaranteed money as well and big cap hits over 9 mil his remaining three seasons.

So just so you have the facts since you always check the facts

Brown 7.08 mil per season
Marshall 9.46 mil per season

Here are the exaxt facts about Brown's contract

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/07/antonio-brown-contract-breakdown/

Antonio Brown's contract is back loaded. Brown costs 9.95 million against the cap in 2016 - more than any year in Marshall's contract.

From here on out Brown costs 6.2, 7.7, 7.7, 9.95 and 8.7 against the cap.

Marshall costs 9.3 and 9.3. The last two years of those contracts look similar to me.

Keep in mind Marshall is a 4 time 100 receptions player in 7 years. When Marshall hits another 100 reception season it will be the most in NFL history. He would already be the NFL record holder for most 100 reception seasons if he hadn't played 2 seasons with whatever scrub the Dolphins could find to throw to him.

I think the contracts are more similar than their production on the field.

Is Brown a very good football player? Yes, he is very reminiscent of Santonio Holmes. However, there are many small and fast NFL wide receivers that can do what Brown does. Brown does not possess a unique skill set. A player like Marshall who is a huge target in the red zone or a Mike Wallace who blows the tops off of coverages is a unique player who should command more money because they do what no one else can. If you want to make money do one thing and do it better than anyone else.