PDA

View Full Version : I'm OK with purging our aging/underproducing Stars


Steelers5895
01-20-2013, 09:48 AM
I think this has been a long time coming.

Some of you may be new steelers fans (Bettis Era) but if you go back to the 90's when Free Agency started, the Steelers were always a roster that was attacked by other teams. We would lose starter after starter and keep winning.

Why?

We always had someone as productive waiting in the wings.

We loose Thomas Everett and Aaron Jones and we replace them with Carnell Lake and Darren Perry

DJ Johnson gets replaced by Willie Williams

Hardy Nickerson gets replaced by Levon Kirkland

Gerald Williams by Joel Steed

Yancey Thigpen by Charles Johnson

Eric Green by Mark Bruener

I can go on and on and on with this.

The issue now is we are NOT replacing these players we cut or allow to walk via free agency with as good or better replacements.

So, based on that, the Steelers held these players like Farrior, Harrison, Taylor, Keisel, Hampton, Starks way too long. No one groomed to replace them so as their skills decline so does production. The fact we were the #1 defense means NOTHING...again...NOTHING...one more time...NOTHING!!!!

Its time to let the young guys play, to include rookies and let them take their lumps. As long as we have Big Ben, get a decent RB which we can draft and a solid OL, we can compete and in 2014 we will be better for it.

Trade down, accumulate picks, develop them ON THE FIELD and look for another 3-5 years of a championship run starting 2014.

This group has had a nice 10 year run, I'm fine with a 1-2 year fall from grace (like 98-00) to reload for another 10-12 year run.

VaDave
01-23-2013, 07:34 AM
Sorry nobody replyed to this post.

As for replacements, you are going to get your wish this off season. I read anywhere from 15 to as many as 20 new faces for 2013. Not all of these are starters mind you, but it's going to be a huge influx personel.

To you point, some of these guys have been burried on the depth chart. Worilds is a classic example. I grant you that he doesn't have the up the field skills of Woodley ( of which we get to see maybe 3 or 4 times a game), overall, grades out better. Cortez Allen finally got a chance to shine and is going to be a good player for us. McCLendon is going to be a fine replacement for Hampton. So we have a few in the breech.

I wish I could say Hood has been a decent replacement for Smith, but he's been very disappointing, and Hayward has been very inconsitent, so it's hard to figure out what we got there when Hamp and Kies hang 'em up.

How do you replace a Troy Palamalu?? Well, we did. It took us about 4 games to get it down, but after the schock wore off, they played fairly well as a unit. The only really glaring deficiency in the secondary is I've never seen a collection of gifted athletes so skilled at fighting off a football like it's got the plague. They all must be severely nearsighted, with hands the size of quarters, and no thumbs.

kent
01-23-2013, 08:13 AM
How does having a number one defense mean nothing? One could argue that the replacements are already being groomed and are in place. There is young talent and depth at every position on this defense. Only time will tell if they work out.

harrison'samonster
01-23-2013, 08:29 AM
Nice post, except for insisting that a #1 Defense means nothing. And like it's been said, I'd like to see what the replacement's can do before I say we're going into rebuilding mode.

Steelers>NFL
01-23-2013, 08:42 AM
Defense was #1 statically. But not #1 as the best in the league. They did not create TO. Especially when need most, late in the game. Not to mention how many games were lost in the 4th qtr. this year. So there is room for improvement. Big time.
I do agree, it is time to purge out the old, and mix in the young. Even if it takes them 1 or 2 years to get back on top. The Ravens did it a few years back. The Pats# did it too. Look where they are.
By the way, I am in the middle about the defense. Yes, it is very good, at the same time need improvement.
As does the offense, maybe moreso than the defense.

maddog78
01-23-2013, 12:34 PM
Max Starks is 30, the best tackle on the team, cheap, and doesn't get hurt. How exactly are we being crippled by him?

Only get rid of Taylor if Lewis signs, otherwise we're stuck with an unproven Brown and Allen (though Allen looked good in December).

Agree on the DL, not on Harrison. If he's healthy, ask him to restructure.

What about Larry Foote? He led the team in tackles, I know, 10 yards downfield.

maddog78
01-23-2013, 12:38 PM
Trade down, accumulate picks, develop them ON THE FIELD and look for another 3-5 years of a championship run starting 2014.

This group has had a nice 10 year run, I'm fine with a 1-2 year fall from grace (like 98-00) to reload for another 10-12 year run.


Franchise QBs don't go on trees. If we're going to blow it up and start over after wasting two seasons, may as well trade Ben while his value is high.

harrison'samonster
01-23-2013, 12:52 PM
Franchise QBs don't go on trees. If we're going to blow it up and start over after wasting two seasons, may as well trade Ben while his value is high.

that's a great point. as long as we have Ben we have a chance to get to the SB. This team is going to do what gives them the best chance to compete each year as long as we have him.

SteelersCanada
01-23-2013, 12:59 PM
Don't blow up the offense, just draft well and let our young guys play. Enough with the favoritism and sense of loyalty to guys that aren't producing. Reinvigorate our defensive line with the youth we already have on our roster, and draft someone like Jordan to play ROLB. Take that, then draft a Safety to learn behind Troy for a year and an ILB that can play immediately to let Timmons do what he does best - blow the offensive line up.

We don't need to blow up our roster, we just have to use what we already have on our roster more effectively.

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-23-2013, 01:05 PM
So, based on that, the Steelers held these players like Farrior, Harrison, Taylor, Keisel, Hampton, Starks way too long. No one groomed to replace them so as their skills decline so does production. The fact we were the #1 defense means NOTHING...again...NOTHING...one more time...NOTHING!!!!


Great post, except for this rubbish you have been trying to propogate around here the last few days.

Having the #1 defense meant that we finished 8-8, instead of much worse. Not sure how having a defense ranked #1 in yards means nothing to you. For the opposing team to score points-- they need to make yardage.

Other than this point of contention, good observations. I remember the angst back in the 90's when some of the names you mentioned were being aged out of the lineup.

The uncertainty is what hurts. When a proven vet steps down-- you have to have some faith in the guy behind him on the depth chart in order to move on.

pczach
01-23-2013, 04:34 PM
I think this has been a long time coming.

Some of you may be new steelers fans (Bettis Era) but if you go back to the 90's when Free Agency started, the Steelers were always a roster that was attacked by other teams. We would lose starter after starter and keep winning.

Why?

We always had someone as productive waiting in the wings.

We loose Thomas Everett and Aaron Jones and we replace them with Carnell Lake and Darren Perry

DJ Johnson gets replaced by Willie Williams

Hardy Nickerson gets replaced by Levon Kirkland

Gerald Williams by Joel Steed

Yancey Thigpen by Charles Johnson

Eric Green by Mark Bruener

I can go on and on and on with this.

The issue now is we are NOT replacing these players we cut or allow to walk via free agency with as good or better replacements.

So, based on that, the Steelers held these players like Farrior, Harrison, Taylor, Keisel, Hampton, Starks way too long. No one groomed to replace them so as their skills decline so does production. The fact we were the #1 defense means NOTHING...again...NOTHING...one more time...NOTHING!!!!

Its time to let the young guys play, to include rookies and let them take their lumps. As long as we have Big Ben, get a decent RB which we can draft and a solid OL, we can compete and in 2014 we will be better for it.

Trade down, accumulate picks, develop them ON THE FIELD and look for another 3-5 years of a championship run starting 2014.

This group has had a nice 10 year run, I'm fine with a 1-2 year fall from grace (like 98-00) to reload for another 10-12 year run.

You're right. They did tend to let a lot of players go, and they did replace them with young draft talent. There is one glaring difference between those 90's teams and this current team. They didn't win any Super Bowls. When you win Super Bowls, you try to keep as many productive players as you can from that group until the run is over. Having a QB that they believe they can win with has probably made them keep some players they would probably have let go 10 years ago. I think it's a common problem when teams win and win big. It's a nice problem to have.:thumbsup:

harrison'samonster
01-23-2013, 05:49 PM
You're right. They did tend to let a lot of players go, and they did replace them with young draft talent. There is one glaring difference between those 90's teams and this current team. They didn't win any Super Bowls. When you win Super Bowls, you try to keep as many productive players as you can from that group until the run is over. Having a QB that they believe they can win with has probably made them keep some players they would probably have let go 10 years ago. I think it's a common problem when teams win and win big. It's a nice problem to have.:thumbsup:

Very well said. It's one thing to try and improve every year, but why would you let go ppl who were helping you get to the SB?

steeltheone
01-24-2013, 03:15 AM
I think this has been a long time coming.

Some of you may be new steelers fans (Bettis Era) but if you go back to the 90's when Free Agency started, the Steelers were always a roster that was attacked by other teams. We would lose starter after starter and keep winning.

Why?

We always had someone as productive waiting in the wings.

We loose Thomas Everett and Aaron Jones and we replace them with Carnell Lake and Darren Perry

DJ Johnson gets replaced by Willie Williams

Hardy Nickerson gets replaced by Levon Kirkland

Gerald Williams by Joel Steed

Yancey Thigpen by Charles Johnson

Eric Green by Mark Bruener

I can go on and on and on with this.

The issue now is we are NOT replacing these players we cut or allow to walk via free agency with as good or better replacements.

So, based on that, the Steelers held these players like Farrior, Harrison, Taylor, Keisel, Hampton, Starks way too long. No one groomed to replace them so as their skills decline so does production. The fact we were the #1 defense means NOTHING...again...NOTHING...one more time...NOTHING!!!!

Its time to let the young guys play, to include rookies and let them take their lumps. As long as we have Big Ben, get a decent RB which we can draft and a solid OL, we can compete and in 2014 we will be better for it.

Trade down, accumulate picks, develop them ON THE FIELD and look for another 3-5 years of a championship run starting 2014.

This group has had a nice 10 year run, I'm fine with a 1-2 year fall from grace (like 98-00) to reload for another 10-12 year run. Aaron Jones was a Defensive End for the Steelers....When Yancey left via FA, the Steelers drafted Ward and Troy Edwards the following 2 years.

lloydwoodson
02-02-2013, 07:13 AM
Aaron Jones was a Defensive End for the Steelers....When Yancey left via FA, the Steelers drafted Ward and Troy Edwards the following 2 years.

Are you implying Darren Perry wasn't a capable 3-4 DE???

Steelers5895
02-02-2013, 08:56 AM
Franchise QBs don't go on trees. If we're going to blow it up and start over after wasting two seasons, may as well trade Ben while his value is high.

great point but if you have great quarterback play you have a chance to win a super bowl. its a quarterback driven league not a defensive driven league.

we are closer to being a championship offense then championship defense because we have Ben.

Our OL is showing proimise and is young so if they can keep Ben upright that window expands.

We will draft a RB and replace Wallace so we will be fine on offense.

Steelers5895
02-02-2013, 09:03 AM
Aaron Jones was a Defensive End for the Steelers....When Yancey left via FA, the Steelers drafted Ward and Troy Edwards the following 2 years.

yes i missed on Thigpen i meant GARY Jones. You get my point, we were able to replace players.

NSMaster56
02-02-2013, 01:57 PM
'Purging' would make more sense if the Steelers hadn't whiffed on so many picks the last 3-5 years.

Because of the 'misses', the Steelers will be forced to keep a few of the aged vets.