PDA

View Full Version : Offense or defense this draft?


maddog78
01-22-2013, 08:32 AM
I could see them going either way. The defense is old and expensive. If LeBeau is staying, and it appears that he is, the 3-4 talent going forward is less than ideal. Who is the NT if Hampton doesn't return? McClendon is a better pass rusher, but not good against the run. Ta'amu hasn't played a snap. Who plays weak side OLB if James is cut for salary reasons? Worilds? Big step down. Troy and Clark are getting up there, Foote is a mediocre at best LB, and we may be losing Keenan Lewis.

I could easily see a defense heavy draft to re-build this unit, but again, if LeBeau is back, we won't get any returns for 2, 3, maybe 4 years out of draft picks.

On the other side of the ball, we don't have a starting running back under contract and our deep threat WR is leaving. We're losing our two most reliable (health wise) OL in Starks and Foster, most likely, though we should be solid on the OL if (big if) injuries don't bite again.

Ben has five years left, max, probably less the way he gets battered. I'd rather see the team go all in on offense, drafting one of the Tennessee WRs in the first round and a stud RB in the 2nd. Trade up or down if you have to, but WRs and RBs can contribute much more quickly and the Steelers need to maximize this remaining time they have with Ben.

If the defense slips to a 10th ranked unit, so be it, the goal is to get the offense up into the top 10.

desertsteel
01-22-2013, 08:53 AM
That's the kind of posts I'd like to see more of from you maddog. Great stuff!

lloydwoodson
01-22-2013, 09:15 AM
The Steelers tried building around Ben. They really did. They drafted Mendenhall, Sweed, Wallace, Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders in back to back years. You are 4 years late to the Steelers mindset.

The new Steelers mindset is "The Steelers have to build on the OL and DL and win the game in the trenches, establish a running game, and get back to fundamentals because Ben is not the superstar we thought he was and we can't score much more than 21 points a game in any season."

Roethlisberger had Ward, Holmes and Miller in their primes in 2009, plus a brilliant rookie contribution from Wallace and the Steelers only scored 23 points per game. Mendenhall had a 4.6 ypc that year as well. There are no offensive players in this draft that are going to make the Steelers offense dominant. The Steelers will never have more talent on offense than they did in 2009.

The Steelers need to address the defense because Harrison, Polamalu and Hampton are the players who have made the defense exceptional and who need to be replaced with competent players. The likelihood of finding 3 players as good is slim to none. The Steelers defense will slide and maybe past 10th when these players are gone even with viable replacements.

steelfury02
01-22-2013, 09:19 AM
we have to hope that the young guys who come on board on defense can help create some havoc once again - that's my only knock on the defense, while realizing injuries, is that our guys haven't been able to create enough turnovers the past 2 seasons. I'd love to get back to at least giving our mediocre offense some short fields.

I think Ben could get back to heading towards the top of his game if we can keep our O unit healthy as well - I really loved what I was seeing before Ben went down.

maddog78
01-22-2013, 09:40 AM
Well, if we try to patch the defense through the draft, it should be ready by 2016.

Disagree that there is no offensive talent in the draft to help the Steelers. ND tight end? Hunter from Tennessee? Lacy from Alabama?

Part of the Steelers can't score in the red zone because they can't run the ball and have no big targets at receiver.

Doesn't help that the offensive line usually takes five games or less because it is decimated with injuries.

VaDave
01-22-2013, 10:03 AM
I say both!

We could have as many as 18 players leaving. We are not going to fill all of these slots with the draft.

IMO, we need strength and depth along both lines, as well as two impact level OLBs to replace Harrison, and Woodley, unless he gets his humungus posterior shrunk down to playing weight, and plays like he actually means it more often than his typical 4 plays a game ( How about 10 Wood?? That's not too much to ask, is it?). We take care of those issues, everything else will fall into place.

OK, a new punter unless Butler can get his average over 43 yards a pop. Have I ever mentioned how well he sets the ball for placement kicks????

Seriously, when you see that much improvement out of your kicker, especially one that never was much good before this season, it is something you got to consider. Maybe that 4-5 yards Butler's been shanking 'em short, is worth the extra 20 points a year your kicker brings in. In Suiesem's ( pardon the spelling) case, maybe as many as 30 points this year?

lloydwoodson
01-22-2013, 10:07 AM
Well, if we try to patch the defense through the draft, it should be ready by 2016.

Disagree that there is no offensive talent in the draft to help the Steelers. ND tight end? Hunter from Tennessee? Lacy from Alabama?

Part of the Steelers can't score in the red zone because they can't run the ball and have no big targets at receiver.

Doesn't help that the offensive line usually takes five games or less because it is decimated with injuries.

Eiffert isn't better than Miller. Hunter isn't better than Wallace. Lacy isn't better than Mendenhall.

9 years of offenses scoring 20-23 points per game and fans still think next year they will score 28-30.

maddog78
01-22-2013, 10:20 AM
Eiffert isn't better than Miller. Hunter isn't better than Wallace. Lacy isn't better than Mendenhall.

9 years of offenses scoring 20-23 points per game and fans still think next year they will score 28-30.

Well, we're going to lose Mendy and Wallace, and Heath is coming off of a devastating knee injury. How can the offense improve without new weapons?

Eiffert is freaky in his ability. Hunter uses his big body in a way that no Steeler receiver is capable of. It's an element of the passing game we don't have. Watching guys like Boldin, Smith, and Jones go up and snag tough catches in traffic the past couple of weekends was a thing of beauty. We don't see that in Pittsburgh.

Lacy runs hard and physical, and as far as I know, shows up to every game. I'd take my chances that he'll be better than Mendenhall. Just don't think we can get him in the 2nd round if we take a receiver in the first.

I think Haley was off to a good start, then the OL, Brown, and Ben got hurt. They never got their rhythm again after that. I don't think it's unrealistic to expect, with some better luck re: injuries and a couple of pieces added, that they can't score 25-26 a game and be a top ten offense.

Steelers5895
01-22-2013, 10:46 AM
The Steelers tried building around Ben. They really did. They drafted Mendenhall, Sweed, Wallace, Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders in back to back years. You are 4 years late to the Steelers mindset.

The new Steelers mindset is "The Steelers have to build on the OL and DL and win the game in the trenches, establish a running game, and get back to fundamentals because Ben is not the superstar we thought he was and we can't score much more than 21 points a game in any season."

Roethlisberger had Ward, Holmes and Miller in their primes in 2009, plus a brilliant rookie contribution from Wallace and the Steelers only scored 23 points per game. Mendenhall had a 4.6 ypc that year as well. There are no offensive players in this draft that are going to make the Steelers offense dominant. The Steelers will never have more talent on offense than they did in 2009.

The Steelers need to address the defense because Harrison, Polamalu and Hampton are the players who have made the defense exceptional and who need to be replaced with competent players. The likelihood of finding 3 players as good is slim to none. The Steelers defense will slide and maybe past 10th when these players are gone even with viable replacements.

Talk about a ben hater. The steelers didnt draft to put talent around Ben, they did that one draft with Mendy and Sweed. Other than that it was 3rd and lower draft picks. hit or miss.

if our defense is so great as you think they are...23 is more than enough no?

Rotorhead
01-22-2013, 11:11 AM
We get it 5895, you hate DL and our Def has always sucked, the 3-4 is terrible and can never do any good . . . Why dont you try adding to a discussion instead of taking every chance you can to bash DL and the Def.

Dino 6 Rings
01-22-2013, 11:20 AM
I guess you have to look at history to figure this out.

Figure they are only "serious" about the first 4 rounds, anything after that is hit or miss diamond in the rough kind of stuff...so...

We went
OL
OL
LB
DL

DL
OL
DB
DB

OL
LB
WR
LB

DL
OL
WR
DB

RB
WR
LB
OL

LB
LB
TE
P

Since Tomlin has been coach.

That's 6 OL in the last 6 Drafts in the first 4 rounds.
5 LBs
3 DL
3 DB

1 RB
2 WR
6 OL
1 TE

11 Offense and 10 Defense

I imagine our next draft will look something like this:
DB
RB
WR
DL

Unless we cut James Harrison, then I can see
DB
LB
RB
WR

desertsteel
01-22-2013, 11:31 AM
As much as I love Heath, I'd love for us to pick up one of those NE type TEs that is more athletic. Especially since I don't think Heath is going to be ready next year.

fansince'76
01-22-2013, 11:50 AM
Talk about a ben hater. The steelers didnt draft to put talent around Ben, they did that one draft with Mendy and Sweed. Other than that it was 3rd and lower draft picks. hit or miss.

if our defense is so great as you think they are...23 is more than enough no?

Agreed. About the only reason this team didn't wind up in the neighborhood of 2-14 this past season was because a certain "non-superstar" spent the first half of the season constantly bailing us out of 3rd and long.

lloydwoodson
01-22-2013, 12:01 PM
I can't believe people are complaining about not drafting more WRs. Ben had a 1st round TE in Heath Miller. Another 1st round WR in Santonio Holmes until the end of 2009. Complimented by Hines Ward- the most prolific WR in Steelers history. Why would they have drafted more WRs in Tomlin's first 3 years??? How many user names does Matt Millen have on this forum exactly???

What the draft order actually shows is OL was neglected until the last 2 years.

Tony Hills (4th) and Kraig Urbik (3rd) were the only efforts made to draft OL before Pouncey.

Steelers are drafting defense in the first round this year. It is a defensive year. The earliest an offensive player will be taken is in the second round. All the talk about Justin Hunter, Eddie Lacy or Tyler Eiffert is just noise. None of them will be available when the Steelers pick in the middle of the 2nd round.

BlaZeQuietly
01-22-2013, 12:05 PM
Both? Offense a priority.

maddog78
01-22-2013, 12:32 PM
Speaking of defense, would anyone besides me risk a 3rd or 4th round pick on this guy if he's available? Our safeties are long in the tooth with no replacements on the roster. He would have been a first rounder if not for the ganja issues.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2013/story/_/id/8689828/honey-badger-tyrann-mathieu-enter-nfl-draft

SteelersCanada
01-22-2013, 12:37 PM
Speaking of defense, would anyone besides me risk a 3rd or 4th round pick on this guy if he's available? Our safeties are long in the tooth with no replacements on the roster. He would have been a first rounder if not for the ganja issues.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2013/story/_/id/8689828/honey-badger-tyrann-mathieu-enter-nfl-draft

6th round, if he's still there. He's apparently a huge prick to deal with off the field too. Something tells me that wouldn't fly with guys like Taylor, Woodley, Timmons, etc. and he might get isolated within the team pretty quickly.

He's also a huge liability in man-coverage and can't effectively get to the Quarterback or stop the run, so he'd only be used in specific packages. His stock back when he was a first rounder was purely hype-based. He's not a good CB and would have to be shifted to Safety if he were to play for us. That, and he's only 5'9 which makes him small and ineffective to blitz. I see more negatives than positives with taking him at this point. He needs a good agent and PR guy to repair the damage that has been done, but I don't know if he can fix the glaring holes in his game.

desertsteel
01-22-2013, 01:03 PM
Speaking of defense, would anyone besides me risk a 3rd or 4th round pick on this guy if he's available? Our safeties are long in the tooth with no replacements on the roster. He would have been a first rounder if not for the ganja issues.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2013/story/_/id/8689828/honey-badger-tyrann-mathieu-enter-nfl-draft

He was actually projected as a 3rd rounder before the issues, not a 1st.

Having said that, I think we'll pass given the off field issues of two of last years picks.

teegre
01-22-2013, 01:07 PM
As much as I love Heath, I'd love for us to pick up one of those NE type TEs that is more athletic. Especially since I don't think Heath is going to be ready next year.

While I do not want the R1 or R2 pick to be a TE, I like Gavin Escobar (SDSU) in R3-R4ish. The kid plays exactly like Aaron Hernandez (who I like better than Gronk).

teegre
01-22-2013, 01:08 PM
Speaking of defense, would anyone besides me risk a 3rd or 4th round pick on this guy if he's available? Our safeties are long in the tooth with no replacements on the roster. He would have been a first rounder if not for the ganja issues.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2013/story/_/id/8689828/honey-badger-tyrann-mathieu-enter-nfl-draft

Before Rainey & Ta'amu... maybe.

After Rainey & Ta'amu... no way.

Fire Arians
01-22-2013, 01:16 PM
it depends who's the best player at a 'need' position available when it's our turn. both sides of the field have areas in need of addressing.

i am leaning toward offense though, I'm all for picking up a playmaker at the WR position and a running back, especially if wallace and mendenhall are gone

GMU Steeler
01-22-2013, 01:18 PM
BPA according to need.

kan_t
01-22-2013, 01:27 PM
The only offensive player I want in the first round is Cordarrelle Patterson. There is no RB I like in the first round, or even second round.

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-22-2013, 01:36 PM
Offense or defense this draft?

Impossible to tell at this point. We have to wait until after free-agency and the upcoming cuts before even the coaching staff has an idea what we will we left to work with.

Steelers5895
01-22-2013, 02:12 PM
Tough Call. When we draft defense in the first round its like not picking as that player will NEVER see the field in 2013. Can't improve if our 1st round pick doesnt play for 1-2 years at best.

On offense, I still think Ben has the ability to make any receiver not named Limus Sweed a contributor. The Steelers know that based on what he got out of Wallace, Sanders and Brown.

I think we need to draft the top defensive player, regardless of position when we pick. 2013 doesnt look promisign anyway so lets hope he can learn and be a player in 2014.

lloydwoodson
01-22-2013, 02:27 PM
3 of the last 4 picks on first day have been offense. Steelers should go both picks defense on first day to balance it out.

Average age on offense - 25
Average age on defense - 31

It is a no brainer. Defense needs the young players to keep the defense healthy and to keep salary down. Young players don't cost as much.

teegre
01-22-2013, 02:57 PM
POINTS to consider:

1. The Steelers have alternated offense & defense in R1 of each draft, for the past seven drafts. This year's turn is defense.

2. When the team breaks that pattern, they generally go offense (BB, Heath, and Santonio)... in order to help the QB, and also because the offense usually needs more help (21st ranking versus 1st ranking). Thus, offense.

3. The defense is markedly older than the offense (which is scary young... and when they "click", they are going to be elite). Thus, defense.

4. The offense has no RB, no #1 WR, and leading receiver (Heath) will start the year on IR. Thus, offense.

5. I want Matt Elam. Thus, defense.

FrancoLambert
01-22-2013, 04:22 PM
I'd vote for BPA in each and every round.
We have so many holes to fill, the BPA in each round will hopefully strengthen each unit.
Take your pick: OLB, ILB, Safety, DL, RB, OL, ST, QB......so many choices!

tanda10506
01-22-2013, 04:31 PM
We need more then one draft to get to where we need to be, so IMO they should take the best player available. Over 2 or 3 drafts we can have a damn good team put together. I think the offensive and defensive lines have got quite a bit of attention over the last few years and are young enough, yet experienced enough, to start making a difference. We need LB's, DB's, and someone on offense who isn't worried about there next contract or what their group is called. We've added enough "talent" on offense over the last 3 years, we can't keep spending picks on players who don't play like Steelers.

wootawnee
01-23-2013, 11:57 PM
We will draft the best value at our picks......Weather OLB, NT, SS, CB, RB.....Even TE....

Millers the sh!t
01-24-2013, 08:42 AM
I say both, ILB,.LG, big physical WR. We have backs, we just need a physical or intelligent O line that can open up holes for our backs. Pick up a new O Line Coach get a solid running game going, get a physical WR that can make catches in traffic, and in the red zone and I promise we will be scoring four more points a game.

Also when Ben goes down for his typical 3 games every season, a run game is what well need to carry the offense, eat the clock and keep the opposing team off the field. It's time to start planning for the future without number 7 under center. At that starts with a great running game.

maddog78
01-24-2013, 08:52 AM
Why does everyone keep bringing up the backs we "have"? Baron Batch is the only Steeler running back under contract. If we sign and keep Redman and Dwyer, we still don't have a starting running back.

Rotorhead
01-24-2013, 09:41 AM
After much thought, i hope we can get an OLB pass rusher. That is our need, more pressure will equal TO's period. The rest will fall into place.

Justp94
01-25-2013, 05:09 AM
I say both, ILB,.LG, big physical WR. We have backs, we just need a physical or intelligent O line that can open up holes for our backs. Pick up a new O Line Coach get a solid running game going, get a physical WR that can make catches in traffic, and in the red zone and I promise we will be scoring four more points a game.

Also when Ben goes down for his typical 3 games every season, a run game is what well need to carry the offense, eat the clock and keep the opposing team off the field. It's time to start planning for the future without number 7 under center. At that starts with a great running game.

WR Da'Rick Rogers, Tennessee Tech in 2nd Round.
Rogers is a virtual Julio Jones clone, exhibiting an exciting combination of size, strength and explosiveness.

He signed with Tennessee as one of the most highly regarded prep prospects in the entire country, and immediately showed off his versatility, racking up 167 yards as a receiver and 117 yards as a runner (reverses, etc.).

Rogers was expected to serve as the complementary piece to Justin Hunter in 2011, but stepped up once his teammate was injured and went on to lead the SEC with 1,040 receiving yards in 2011. He eclipsed the 100-yard mark in six games, one short of a Tennessee record, and earned First Team All-SEC honors by the media and league coaches.

While there are plenty of traits about Rogers scouts will love, one they must be concerned about is Rogers' accountability on and off the field. For violating team rules, Rogers was suspended indefinitely by Tennessee coach Derek Dooley on Aug. 23 and ultimately transferred to Tennessee Tech.

Rogers played in all 11 games for Tennessee Tech in 2012, and was the man among boys he was expected to be, leading the team with 61 catches for 893 yards and 10 touchdowns. No one else on the roster had more than 28 receptions, and Rogers put up his staggering numbers despite every opponent game-planning to contain him.


Other than the fact he had an issue at the Tennessee Volunteers and was suspended from their team and transferred, he's that Big, Physical WR we need. He made a mistake with drugs, most likely Marijuana and since has had no problems with it or any other off the field issues and said himself he was dumb.

Trust me, look at these highlights. He's a worthy second round pick.
Sophomore Season - Tennessee
5BHOXRyDLuw

Junior Season - Tennessee Tech
VMruCW43-Io
DF3BUyakyag

Buddha Bus
01-25-2013, 05:40 AM
I honestly don't care, even though I'd lean defense. I just want players who embody the Steeler tradition. We need more guys with heart and attitude and we most importantly need an influx of leadership material. They need to target guys who can fire this team up and get them to play as a team again, not a group of individuals trying to make themselves look good. Leadership is the main ingredient missing from this Steelers team right now.

Unfortunately, drafting a rookie who can come in and provide that immediately will be a daunting task. It may take a couple of years for a guy drafted in this upcoming draft to get acclimated and prove himself enough to his teammates to be able to be taken seriously as a leader.