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ricardisimo
01-22-2013, 07:25 PM
Two citizens today defended themselves from each other by shooting three other people who had nothing to do with either of them. God bless America.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21153340

MACH1
01-22-2013, 07:30 PM
I thought gun free zones were going to stop this kind of thing.

ricardisimo
01-22-2013, 09:35 PM
Are you suggesting that there's a single square inch of Texas that is gun-free?

Atlanta Dan
01-22-2013, 09:56 PM
Are you suggesting that there's a single square inch of Texas that is gun-free?

Not just gun free - also knife and "club" free

It is the policy of this System to prohibit the carrying of firearms, knives and clubs onto any of the System's facilities,” the college’s weapons policy states. “The possession of firearms, illegal knives and prohibited knives on System facilities including parking areas and publicly accessed facilities

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2980844/posts

Any word on whether the right to bear clubs is protected under the 2nd Amendment?

Clubs don't kill people - people kill people

harrison'samonster
01-22-2013, 09:57 PM
Not just gun free - also knife and "club" free

It is the policy of this System to prohibit the carrying of firearms, knives and clubs onto any of the System's facilities,” the college’s weapons policy states. “The possession of firearms, illegal knives and prohibited knives on System facilities including parking areas and publicly accessed facilities

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2980844/posts

Any word on whether the right to bear clubs is protected under the 2nd Amendment?

Clubs don't kill people - people kill people

ovens don't bake food - people bake food

ricardisimo
01-22-2013, 10:12 PM
Hyperbole doesn't stretch the truth... people stretch the truth.

Actually my favorite is still Laurie Anderson's version: "It's not the bullet that kills you... It's the hole." Sheer genius.

BlaZeQuietly
01-23-2013, 12:53 AM
This just proves that having armed guards at schools are not going to make them safer. I am very political and I appreciate the Obama administration's efforts, and the efforts locally here in NY to limit the number of rounds allowed in clips, It's nice that they are trying but this problem is horrible, and was ignored for far too long. Limiting clip sizes, banning ar-14's, all these ideas are too little too late, our streets are already flooded with guns, and criminals are going to continue to get their hands on them, legal or not, unfortunately I'm afraid we will see plenty more mass shootings with no end in sight. The tragedy in newtown really woke me up to this. that sick bastard who shot all the 6 and 7 year olds is so despicable it makes me want to vomit.

ricardisimo
01-23-2013, 01:27 AM
People really have to stop tossing the word "criminal" around as if it is meaningful or informative. Criminality is ex post facto, just like "bad" or "wrong"... the term is useless ahead of time. What you can spot ahead of time, every time, is the fact that guns are designed to kill, and they do so rather efficiently, as the headlines can attest. Sometimes you can spot sick people, and that can be helpful. But it's not always all that clear, and often these are just bored, stupid kids.

The Second Amendment needs to be repealed. No other way around this problem. If it guaranteed the right to bioweapons or nukes and people were getting killed by these at similar rates as guns, this would be a no-brainer. But thanks to Hollywood we just can't give these fucking things up.

P.S. - And for the record, I don't see that it doesn't guarantee the right to nukes. It doesn't say "small arms", it just says "arms". ICBMs are "arms". Why can't I have one? I need to be able to "defend" myself.

Vis
01-23-2013, 04:35 AM
What you have to realize is that people who are pro-gun (in this context) is that they are not are not pro-gun for the protection the gun provides or for any thought of a cost/benefit analysis. They are simply pro-gun for the wood the gun provides them. So they shrug off the deaths. It's the badass nature of the weapon that makes the woody so good.

MACH1
01-23-2013, 10:20 AM
This just proves that having armed guards at schools are not going to make them safer. I am very political and I appreciate the Obama administration's efforts, and the efforts locally here in NY to limit the number of rounds allowed in clips, It's nice that they are trying but this problem is horrible, and was ignored for far too long. Limiting clip sizes, banning ar-14's, all these ideas are too little too late, our streets are already flooded with guns, and criminals are going to continue to get their hands on them, legal or not, unfortunately I'm afraid we will see plenty more mass shootings with no end in sight. The tragedy in newtown really woke me up to this. that sick bastard who shot all the 6 and 7 year olds is so despicable it makes me want to vomit.

Banning ar14's should be easy since there is no such thing.

People really have to stop tossing the word "criminal" around as if it is meaningful or informative. Criminality is ex post facto, just like "bad" or "wrong"... the term is useless ahead of time. What you can spot ahead of time, every time, is the fact that guns are designed to kill, and they do so rather efficiently, as the headlines can attest. Sometimes you can spot sick people, and that can be helpful. But it's not always all that clear, and often these are just bored, stupid kids.

The Second Amendment needs to be repealed. No other way around this problem. If it guaranteed the right to bioweapons or nukes and people were getting killed by these at similar rates as guns, this would be a no-brainer. But thanks to Hollywood we just can't give these fucking things up.

P.S. - And for the record, I don't see that it doesn't guarantee the right to nukes. It doesn't say "small arms", it just says "arms". ICBMs are "arms". Why can't I have one? I need to be able to "defend" myself.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/578352_532843780074109_1541397297_n.jpg

Should the 1st amendment be repealed since there was no such thing as phones, tv's, internet, telegraphs, social media, msnbc when it was written?

Show me one walmart I can walk into and buy a nuke, grenade, rpg.

BlaZeQuietly
01-23-2013, 11:09 AM
Oh YOU'RE right ,Sorry I meant AR-15, don't worry mach we won't take away YOUR 2nd amendment.

BlaZeQuietly
01-23-2013, 11:10 AM
Banning ar14's should be easy since there is no such thing.



https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/578352_532843780074109_1541397297_n.jpg

Should the 1st amendment be repealed since there was no such thing as phones, tv's, internet, telegraphs, social media, msnbc when it was written?

Show me one walmart I can walk into and buy a nuke, grenade, rpg.

Phone's, TV's, Internet, ETC are not killing machines, gun's on the other hand are designed to kill.

BlaZeQuietly
01-23-2013, 11:13 AM
I do not think the 2nd amendment should be repealed, not for one second... Revised, maybe. Fact of the matter is when the 2nd amendment was written we had muskets, now we have AR-15s, which are VERY easy to obtain, not to mention m16s, ak47s and a whole array of semi-automatic/;automatic weapons that seem to be the preferred weapon of choice in mass shootings such as The VA Tech shooting, Aurora theater shooting, and Newtown Elementary school children Massacre.

silver & black
01-23-2013, 11:28 AM
What happens when you take away the "assault" weapons and someone goes to a public place and shoots people one at a time with a hunting rifle? are those people less dead because the shooter had to pull the trigger every time instead of keeping the trigger pulled? The whole gun control/banning thing is ridiclulous.

MACH1
01-23-2013, 11:36 AM
Phone's, TV's, Internet, ETC are not killing machines, gun's on the other hand are designed to kill.

That wasn't my point. And as far as words getting people killed that's a different argument.


What happens when you take away the "assault" weapons and someone goes to a public place and shoots people one at a time with a hunting rifle? are those people less dead because the shooter had to pull the trigger every time instead of keeping the trigger pulled? The whole gun control/banning thing is ridiclulous.

Thats the thing you have to pull the trigger every time on these "assault" weapons, one at a time. They are not fully automatic, full autos are illegal to own.

SteelCityMom
01-23-2013, 11:41 AM
I do not think the 2nd amendment should be repealed, not for one second... Revised, maybe. Fact of the matter is when the 2nd amendment was written we had muskets, now we have AR-15s, which are VERY easy to obtain, not to mention m16s, ak47s and a whole array of semi-automatic/;automatic weapons that seem to be the preferred weapon of choice in mass shootings such as The VA Tech shooting, Aurora theater shooting, and Newtown Elementary school children Massacre.

VA Tech shooting was two pistols. Glock 19 pistol and Walther P22 pistol.

There are conflicting reports about whether or not the Bushmaster was used in Newton, or if it was just handguns.

M16's and other full auto weapons are extremely hard to obtain, and have never been used in any of these mass shootings. Not only are they very expensive (cheap ones are 5k), but you also have to go through ATF background checks, which takes months. Also, 99% of FFL's are not licensed to sell them. And good luck finding a gun range that allows you to shoot them.

The real preferred weapon of choice in shooting deaths is a handgun. In 2011, 323 people TOTAL were killed with rifles, out of 8,583 firearm related murders. That's less than knives, blunt objects, and personal weapons (fists, feet, etc.).

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

Since Columbine (and including Columbine), of the 21 shootings I'm going to list here, only 6 involve "assault" rifles (7 if you really want to include the bolt action rifle that was used in Lancaster). The rest are all pistols and shotguns.


December 11, 2012. On Tuesday, 22-year-old Jacob Tyler Roberts killed 2 people and himself with a stolen rifle in Clackamas Town Center, Oregon. His motive is unknown.
Weapons Used: AR-15 semi-automatic rifle
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound after confronted with an armed defender.
Guns Allowed: Not on mall property, but the actual town; Yes.

August 5, 2012. Six Sikh temple members were killed when 40-year-old US Army veteran Wade Michael Page opened fire in a gurdwara in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Four others were injured, and Page killed himself.

Weapon Used: Springfield XD 9mm Pistol
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound to evade police.
Guns Allowed: No

July 20, 2012. During the midnight premiere of The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, CO, 24-year-old James Holmes killed 12 people and wounded 58. Holmes was arrested outside the theater.

Weapons Used: Pump action 12 gauge, .40 caliber pistol, Smith and Wesson M&P 15.
Method of Capture: Surrendered to police.
Guns Allowed: No (theatre’s charge admission to the public, so this means no carrying)

April 2, 2012. A former student, 43-year-old One L. Goh killed 7 people at Oikos University, a Korean Christian college in Oakland, CA. The shooting was the sixth-deadliest school massacre in the US and the deadliest attack on a school since the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre.

Weapon Used: .45 caliber pistol
Method of Capture: Arrested by police.
Guns Allowed: No

October 14, 2011. Eight people died in a shooting at Salon Meritage hair salon in Seal Beach, CA. The gunman, 41-year-old Scott Evans Dekraai, killed six women and two men dead, while just one woman survived. It was Orange County’s deadliest mass killing.

Weapons Used: 9mm Springfield pistol, H&K .45 pistol, Smith and Wesson 44 magnum.
Method of Capture: Arrested by Police.
Guns Allowed: Varies. (Orange County is a “may issue” locale)

September 6, 2011. Eduardo Sencion, 32, entered an IHOP restaurant in Carson City, NV and shot 12 people. Five died, including three National Guard members.

Weapon Used: AK-47 (this actually IS an assault-rifle)
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
Guns Allowed: Yes

January 8, 2011. Former Rep. Gabby Giffords (D-AZ) was shot in the head when 22-year-old Jared Loughner opened fire on an event she was holding at a Safeway market in Tucson, AZ. Six people died, including Arizona District Court Chief Judge John Roll, one of Giffords’ staffers, and a 9-year-old girl. 19 total were shot. Loughner has been sentenced to seven life terms plus 140 years, without parole.

Weapon Used: Glock 9mm pistol
Method of Capture: subdued by bystanders
Guns Allowed: In Tucson, Yes. In Safeway supermarkets: some yes and some no.

November 5, 2009. Forty-three people were shot by Army psychiatrist Nidal Malik Hasan at the Fort Hood army base in Texas. Hasan reportedly yelled “Allahu Akbar!” before opening fire, killing 13 and wounding 29 others.

Weapon Used: FN Five-Seven pistol
Method of Capture: Arrested by police.
Guns Allowed: Not really applicable – it’s a military base.

April 3, 2009. Jiverly Wong, 41, opened fire at an immigration center in Binghamton, New York before committing suicide. He killed 13 people and wounded 4.

Weapons Used: 9mm Beretta Vertec pistol, .45 Beretta Storm pistol
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound.
Guns Allowed: No

March 29, 2009. Eight people died in a shooting at the Pinelake Health and Rehab nursing home in Carthage, NC. The gunman, 45-year-old Robert Stewart, was targeting his estranged wife who worked at the home and survived. Stewart was sentenced to life in prison.

Weapons Used: Remington 597 .22 rifle, .357 revolver, .22 magnum pistol, 12 gauge Winchester 1300 shotgun.
Method of Capture: Arrested by police.
Guns Allowed: Not on the premises, prohibited by sign on the property.

February 14, 2008. Steven Kazmierczak, 27, opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University, killing 6 and wounding 21. The gunman shot and killed himself before police arrived. It was the fifth-deadliest university shooting in US history.

Weapons Used: 12 gauge Remington Sportsman shotgun, 9mm Glock 19 pistol, 9mm Sig Sauer P232 pistol, .380 pistol
Method of Capture: self-inflicted gunshot wound
Guns Allowed: No

February 7, 2008. Six people died and two were injured in a shooting spree at the City Hall in Kirkwood, Missouri. The gunman, Charles Lee Thornton, opened fire during a public meeting after being denied construction contracts he believed he deserved. Thornton was killed by police.

Weapons Used: Smith and Wesson model 29 44 Magnum revolver, Smith and Wesson .40 caliber pistol,
Method of Capture: Shot and killed by police.
Guns Allowed: Not in city hall.

December 5, 2007. A 19-year-old boy, Robert Hawkins, shot up a department store in the Westroads Mall in Omaha, NE. Hawkins killed 9 people and wounded 4 before killing himself. The semi-automatic rifle he used was stolen from his stepfather’s house.

Weapons Used: Century WASR-10 semi-automatic rifle.
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound.
Guns Allowed: Not on mall property.

April 16, 2007. Virginia Tech became the site of the deadliest school shooting in US history when a student, Seung-Hui Choi, gunned down 56 people. Thirty-two people died in the massacre.

Weapons Used: Glock 19 pistol, Walther P22 pistol.
Method of Capture: suicide
Guns Allowed: No

February 12, 2007. In Salt Lake City’s Trolley Square Mall, 5 people were shot to death and 4 others were wounded by 18-year-old gunman Sulejman Talović. One of the victims was a 16-year-old boy.

Weapons Used: Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun, 38 caliber pistol
Method of Capture: Shot by off-duty police office illegally carrying his weapon.
Guns Allowed: No, but you can NOW. They removed the on-premises signs.

October 2, 2006. An Amish schoolhouse in Lancaster, PA was gunned down by 32-year-old Charles Carl Roberts, Roberts separated the boys from the girls, binding and shooting the girls. 5 young girls died, while 6 were injured. Roberts committed suicide afterward.

Weapons Used: Springfield XD 9mm pistol, Browning 12 gauge shotgun, Ruger .30-06 bolt-action rifle.
Method of Capture: Suicide
Guns Allowed: No

March 25, 2006. Seven died and 2 were injured by 28-year-old Kyle Aaron Huff in a shooting spree through Capitol Hill in Seattle, WA. The massacre was the worst killing in Seattle since 1983.

Weapons Used: Winchester 1300 12 gauge shotgun, Ruger P944 40 caliber pistol
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gun shot wound.
Guns Allowed: No (It’s a private residence, but alcohol was on-site, so it would be unlawful to carry regardless of the local law.)

March 21, 2005. Teenager Jeffrey Weise killed his grandfather and his grandfather’s girlfriend before opening fire on Red Lake Senior High School, killing 9 people on campus and injuring 5. Weise killed himself.
Weapons Used: .40 caliber Glock 23 pistol, .22 caliber Ruger pistol, Remington 870 12 gauge shotgun.
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound.
Guns Allowed: No

March 12, 2005. A Living Church of God meeting was gunned down by 44-year-old church member Terry Michael Ratzmann at a Sheraton hotel in Brookfield, WI. Ratzmann was thought to have had religious motivations, and killed himself after executing the pastor, the pastor’s 16-year-old son, and 7 others. Four were wounded.

Weapon Used: 9mm pistol
Method of Capture: self-inflicted gunshot wound
Guns Allowed: Yes, (I think)

July 8, 2003. Doug Williams, a Lockheed Martin employee, shot up his plant in Meridian, MI in a racially-motivated rampage. He shot 14 people, most of them African American, and killed 7.

Weapons Used: Winchester 12 gauge shotgun, Ruger Mini-14 .223 caliber rifle.
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound.
Guns Allowed: No

September 15, 1999. Larry Gene Ashbrook opened fire on a Christian rock concert and teen prayer rally at Wedgewood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, TX. He killed 7 people and wounded 7 others, almost all teenagers. Ashbrook committed suicide.

Weapons Used: Ruger 9mm Pistol, .380 ACP pistol
Method of Capture: Suicide
Guns Allowed: No

July 29, 1999. Mark Orrin Barton, 44, murdered his wife and two children with a hammer before shooting up two Atlanta day trading firms. Barton, a day trader, was believed to be motivated by huge monetary losses. He killed 12 including his family and injured 13 before killing himself.

Weapons Used: Colt .45 pistol, Glock 17 9mm pistol, .22 pistol revolver, .25 caliber pistol
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound
Guns Allowed: Too many various locations to determine all of them.

April 20, 1999. In the deadliest high school shooting in US history, teenagers Eric Harris and Dylan Kiebold shot up Columbine High School in Littleton, CO. They killed 13 people and wounded 21 others. They killed themselves after the massacre.

Weapons Used: 12 gauge Savage shotgun, Hi-Point 9mm pistol, TEC-9 9mm pistol, 12 gauge Stevens shotgun, and 99 improvised explosives.
Method of Capture: Suicide
Guns Allowed: No

Atlanta Dan
01-23-2013, 03:01 PM
This just proves that having armed guards at schools are not going to make them safer.

I think arming guards with clubs might be a game changer

Atlanta Dan
01-23-2013, 03:02 PM
What happens when you take away the "assault" weapons and someone goes to a public place and shoots people one at a time with a hunting rifle? are those people less dead because the shooter had to pull the trigger every time instead of keeping the trigger pulled? .

You have a lower body count

silver & black
01-23-2013, 04:09 PM
You have a lower body count

No argument, but the same problem still exists. . You still have dead people at the hands of an unstable person using a gun. Is the argument that it's better and acceptable as long as the body count is kept low?

I just don't see the point of gun control unless every gun is taken out of the equation, and that will never happen, no matter how many laws are passed.

Atlanta Dan
01-23-2013, 04:32 PM
No argument, but the same problem still exists. . You still have dead people at the hands of an unstable person using a gun. Is the argument that it's better and acceptable as long as the body count is kept low?

I just don't see the point of gun control unless every gun is taken out of the equation, and that will never happen, no matter how many laws are passed.

Cost-benefit analysis - 10 dead kids are too many but it is better than 20 dead kids when the trade-off is not being able to go hunting for squirrels with an AR-15

But this is an academic exercise in speculation - nothing is going to get passed by this Congress

silver & black
01-23-2013, 06:07 PM
Do you know anyone who hunts with an AR-15? I don't.

Obviously, the people who own these guns are gun enthusiasts. Nothing wrong with being a gun enthusiast. Nothing wrong with enjoying shooting an AR-15 or AK-47 or any other gun you can name.

I understand the argument against them..... I just don't agree with it. The vast majority of the people who own these guns are law abiding, contributing members of society. Why should they have to give up their passion because a few nut jobs can't deal with life? Nothing will keep those people from finding and using those guns just because they are banned. The criminal/unstable element will always find what they want, regardless of the laws. responsible people shouldn't be made to pay for the transgressions of nut jobs and criminals.

And no, I don't own any guns.

MACH1
01-23-2013, 06:39 PM
Do you know anyone who hunts with an AR-15? I don't.

Obviously, the people who own these guns are gun enthusiasts. Nothing wrong with being a gun enthusiast. Nothing wrong with enjoying shooting an AR-15 or AK-47 or any other gun you can name.

I understand the argument against them..... I just don't agree with it. The vast majority of the people who own these guns are law abiding, contributing members of society. Why should they have to give up their passion because a few nut jobs can't deal with life? Nothing will keep those people from finding and using those guns just because they are banned. The criminal/unstable element will always find what they want, regardless of the laws. responsible people shouldn't be made to pay for the transgressions of nut jobs and criminals.

And no, I don't own any guns.

You do now. :hunch:

It's nothing more than a .223, works great for rock chucks and coyotes.

ricardisimo
01-23-2013, 08:41 PM
As far as the government coming in guns a-blazing to take guns away from citizens, I don't recall the bloodbath when totalitarian Australia instituted their laws. In fairness to your point, I suspect that Attorneys General - like Janet Reno - will always get woodies flexing their muscles in compound/weapons cache situations like Ruby Ridge and Waco.

Going back to the Australian situation, I think it speaks to Mom's point in that they had a buy-back program that targeted handguns, for the reasons Mom cites. Getting rocket launchers off the streets might me a no-brainer, but if no one is committing crimes with rocket launchers then it's kind of pointless.

The guns need to go away. People should learn to be braver and more creative with their psychoses, and I'm confidant that Americans will rise to the occasion and find exciting new ways to kill each other, even if it has to be at a dramatically slower pace.

Regarding fighting government tyranny, that's what organizing is for. Guns work at cross-purposes to organizing efforts. No one wants to hang out with people toting guns. Something about them makes people skittish for some unknown reason.

MasterOfPuppets
01-23-2013, 09:34 PM
mach at the target range with his new hello kitty AR15.....

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/01/1-17-08-hk_ar-15.jpg

MACH1
01-23-2013, 10:41 PM
As far as the government coming in guns a-blazing to take guns away from citizens, I don't recall the bloodbath when totalitarian Australia instituted their laws. In fairness to your point, I suspect that Attorneys General - like Janet Reno - will always get woodies flexing their muscles in compound/weapons cache situations like Ruby Ridge and Waco.

Going back to the Australian situation, I think it speaks to Mom's point in that they had a buy-back program that targeted handguns, for the reasons Mom cites. Getting rocket launchers off the streets might me a no-brainer, but if no one is committing crimes with rocket launchers then it's kind of pointless.

The guns need to go away. People should learn to be braver and more creative with their psychoses, and I'm confidant that Americans will rise to the occasion and find exciting new ways to kill each other, even if it has to be at a dramatically slower pace.

Regarding fighting government tyranny, that's what organizing is for. Guns work at cross-purposes to organizing efforts. No one wants to hang out with people toting guns. Something about them makes people skittish for some unknown reason.

You need to get out more.


Yeah lets ban all guns so we can be just like Mexico, a giant gun free zone.

ricardisimo
01-24-2013, 12:28 AM
You need to get out more.


Yeah lets ban all guns so we can be just like Mexico, a giant gun free zone.
I get out more than enough, and trust me, in LA if the guns come out there's only one reason, and it ain't for fun.

As for Mexico, really? You picked a country falling apart at the seams to make your point? Yes, let's use Iraq, Afghanistan and Mexico to make our points here. Pick some other countries not in the middle of a war. You can even stay in the same neighborhood. Let's compare El Salvador (with almost no gun laws at all), Nicaragua (with comprehensive registration laws) and Costa Rica (with what you would consider draconian gun bans).

Let's put on our **IMAGINATION** caps and see if we can guess what sorts of gun homicide rates we will find in each of those countries if we were to look closely.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JnggSJgApjA/TeaME_BCcGI/AAAAAAAABbE/U027gE1Ageg/s1600/spongebob.jpg

ricardisimo
01-24-2013, 05:01 AM
62-Year-Old With Gun Only One Standing Between Nation And Full-Scale Government Takeover

News (http://www.theonion.com/features/news/) • News (http://www.theonion.com/channels/news/) • ISSUE 49•04 (http://www.theonion.com/issue/4904/) • Jan 22, 2013
http://o.onionstatic.com/images/19/19289/original/700.jpg?4730
Bailey, the last thing standing between the American people and a totalitarian state.

NORFOLK, VA—According to numerous reports, local 62-year-old Earl Bailey, who owns a shotgun and several boxes of ammunition, is currently the last bastion of defense between the United States of America and the federal government’s plot of a full-scale takeover.
Bailey, a recent retiree and a proud advocate of gun rights, has been confirmed by multiple sources as being a true patriot, and is, at present, the only person capable of preventing top-secret forces within the government from striking and forcefully coercing hundreds of millions of Americans to submit to a fascist and brutal New World Order.
Since the early 1990s, sources estimated the gun owner has staved off innumerable large-scale government threats, all from the center of his 12-acre ranch.
“It is every American’s right to be good and armed, and that’s a right that should always be protected,” said Bailey, now the sole American protecting the nation from the government’s hidden plot of disarming all citizens, gradually gaining control of the mass media, and installing martial law throughout the nation’s streets. “Our Founding Fathers intended for each and every one of us to protect ourselves from tyranny. That’s what America is all about.”
“What happens when the feds show up at your front door and start telling you how much meat you can eat or how to raise your kids?” continued the lifetime NRA member, brandishing the very weapon that now serves as the final hope of staving off a totalitarian state. “Is that the future you want?”
Bailey, who keeps his gun on his person at all times and regularly patrols his property in his truck, has reportedly struck dread into the very highest-ranking members of the U.S. government. According to sources, top government and military officials are fully aware that they remain unable to commence with their oppressive, systematic subjugation of the American populace as long as the 62-year-old owner of a rifle exists.
Additional reports confirmed that Bailey’s frequent practice of shooting his gun at empty bean cans in his backyard has repeatedly forced government officials to reassess both their ground and air strategies for the impending takeover.
“The way I see it, the Second Amendment’s been keeping this nation free and secure for well over 200 years,” Bailey said, valiantly standing in front of his home that is constantly being monitored by CIA agents and elite Special Forces operatives, who are told to maintain a safe distance from the formidable 62-year-old. “First they’ll come for our guns and next…well, shoot, I don’t really plan on ever seeing what the hell happens next.”
While the federal government is more than adequately prepared to begin the first phase of its plan of convoying Second Amendment adherents to newly established FEMA concentration camps, high-level members of the Obama Administration involved in the widespread conspiracy confirmed that they have been forced to resort to alternate methods due solely to Bailey’s heroics.
“As long as there’s someone like Earl out there with a gun and ammunition, we are unable to carry out our attack on America,” said Maxwell Caufield, a covert military leader in charge of the operation to turn the country into an authoritarian, one-party state wherein the basic rights of citizens are stripped away in order to create total government control. “Try as we did to spread our distorted gun control propaganda—claiming that it would protect innocent people across the country from needless deaths—the man just wouldn’t bite. There is simply nothing we can do about Earl and his gun, damn him.”
“You’ve got to hand it to him, really,” Caufield added. “If it weren’t for Earl, you’d be looking at a totally different country.”


The really funny thing about this line of thinking is that, of course, the guns have prevented nothing of the sort. The fascists are here and loving it.

steelax04
01-24-2013, 07:30 AM
What about hunters? There are a lot of people in this country that use their guns legally to feed their families (and save quite a bit of money in the process). Should we force them to become vegetarians/farmers instead?

SteelCityMom
01-24-2013, 08:36 AM
As far as the government coming in guns a-blazing to take guns away from citizens, I don't recall the bloodbath when totalitarian Australia instituted their laws. In fairness to your point, I suspect that Attorneys General - like Janet Reno - will always get woodies flexing their muscles in compound/weapons cache situations like Ruby Ridge and Waco.

Going back to the Australian situation, I think it speaks to Mom's point in that they had a buy-back program that targeted handguns, for the reasons Mom cites. Getting rocket launchers off the streets might me a no-brainer, but if no one is committing crimes with rocket launchers then it's kind of pointless.

The guns need to go away. People should learn to be braver and more creative with their psychoses, and I'm confidant that Americans will rise to the occasion and find exciting new ways to kill each other, even if it has to be at a dramatically slower pace.

Regarding fighting government tyranny, that's what organizing is for. Guns work at cross-purposes to organizing efforts. No one wants to hang out with people toting guns. Something about them makes people skittish for some unknown reason.

To your last point, about people with guns not wanting to hang out together...I call BS. We hang out together at gun ranges, and gun shows all the time, no problems (well, except for some random, and atypical accidents like happened last week...but that can be addressed easily). I've never once feared for my life when going out to do some target shooting.

We are not Iceland (or I should say, we don't have Iceland's gov't). If we ever plan to overthrow our gov't, it's not going to be with pots and pans lol. And you're right...we have staved off nothing. And efforts to do so have been small, unorganized, and ineffective. My point still stands though. You're utopian dream of fixing our gov't with words isn't going to happen either, or else it would have been fixed a long time ago. It's just the way it is with tyrannical superpowers.

MACH1
01-24-2013, 09:15 AM
I get out more than enough, and trust me, in LA if the guns come out there's only one reason, and it ain't for fun.

As for Mexico, really? You picked a country falling apart at the seams to make your point? Yes, let's use Iraq, Afghanistan and Mexico to make our points here. Pick some other countries not in the middle of a war. You can even stay in the same neighborhood. Let's compare El Salvador (with almost no gun laws at all), Nicaragua (with comprehensive registration laws) and Costa Rica (with what you would consider draconian gun bans).

Let's put on our **IMAGINATION** caps and see if we can guess what sorts of gun homicide rates we will find in each of those countries if we were to look closely.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JnggSJgApjA/TeaME_BCcGI/AAAAAAAABbE/U027gE1Ageg/s1600/spongebob.jpg

Pick and choose pot meet kettle.

Where I'm from when the guns come out it's for hunting and target shooting. People open carry all the time it's nothing to see someone strapped. Does it make me feel like a scared little girl, no. Does it make me fear for my life, no. I understand it's a hell of a lot different in LA but not every place or person with a gun is like LA.


Yay can't wait.

http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/australia-statistics-crime-after-gun-laws.jpg

http://www.dreamwidth.org/userpic/378981/433648

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

What about hunters? There are a lot of people in this country that use their guns legally to feed their families (and save quite a bit of money in the process). Should we force them to become vegetarians/farmers instead?

You might shoot your eye out therefor they must be banned. Hope you like lettuce.

They say they're not after "hunting" rifles, yet, unless they have a pistil grip. But thats a slippery slope when the government gets involved it wont be long till they want them all.

Vincent
01-24-2013, 10:06 AM
What you have to realize is that people who are pro-gun (in this context) is that they are not are not pro-gun for the protection the gun provides or for any thought of a cost/benefit analysis. They are simply pro-gun for the wood the gun provides them. So they shrug off the deaths. It's the badass nature of the weapon that makes the woody so good.

Such is public discourse on the subject. Public school has done itself well.

Banning ar14's should be easy since there is no such thing.

Lost in everything I've read, seen and heard since, well, headcases have been shooting people and things up, and lib sphincters have been exploding over same, is an unvarnished perspective of the 2nd Amendment, which BTW is the essence of similar language in state constitutions.

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Those fluent in the King's English can parse these words to readily dispel any perceived relationship to duck hunting, skeet, male enhancement, or movie theater carnage. The words are unambiguous. Their meaning is clear.

Militias, AKA non-professionals, irregulars, armed peeps are necessary if the state is to remain free. That point, ignored in every discussion of the issue, is the mandate to citizens to be armed. Why? Because gubmints aren't to be trusted, and if the peeps want to remain free they need to be armed. Implicit in that statement is that the peeps be armed in a manner equal to the gubmint, or else the amendment is moot. Libs like to invoke "international" law to make their cases in domestic suits. Following that logic it's reasonable to follow the Swiss model of an armed citizenry as their guarantee of freedom. They carry their "assault weapons" wherever they go.

The militia piece mandates the second element of the amendment that the right to bears shall not be infringed. Again, falling back in our defacto language, "infringe" means to violate or transgress (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/infringe). The Framers argued language exhaustively and agreed to these words because they, well, framed the amendment in such a way that future tyrants wouldn't be able to work around it. No "gun laws". No "regulations". No licenses. No clip sizes. No infringement whatsoever. AR-14s, M-17s, AKs, RPGs, F-16's, nukes, whatever. We're not after ducks here. We're keeping would-be tyrants in check.

The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with the superfluous bull@#$% swirling around the latest tragedy. People experience tragedies regardless of gubmints, laws, armed or disarmed citizens, and no amount of human discourse will ever change that. The ultimate tragedy would be to allow the Republic to fail at the hands of a would-be tyrant, his shills, and a numbingly stupid population that lacks the intellect to see what the 2nd Amendments states is their responsibility - be armed.

Guns are icky. Get over it.

Vis
01-24-2013, 12:56 PM
Pick and choose pot meet kettle.

Where I'm from when the guns come out it's for hunting and target shooting. People open carry all the time it's nothing to see someone strapped. Does it make me feel like a scared little girl, no. Does it make me fear for my life, no. I understand it's a hell of a lot different in LA but not every place or person with a gun is like LA.


Yay can't wait.

http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/australia-statistics-crime-after-gun-laws.jpg


.

My graphic has a source

http://factcheck.org/Images/image/2009/Ask_FactCheck/homicides_australia_chart.jpg

http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/aic/research/homicide/stats/weapon_trends.png

http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/facts/2008/2008/fig019.png\

http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/facts/2008/2008/fig012.png

http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/facts/2006/fig013.png

Atlanta Dan
01-25-2013, 02:05 PM
Obama's base rallies to support the attempt to repeal the Second Amendment:mad:

Communists Cheer On Obama’s Gun Grab

It should come as no surprise that the Communist Party USA is on board with President Obama’s plan to attack Americans’ right to keep and bear arms as a means to “end gun violence.” A cardinal feature of communist regimes, like all dictatorships, is the prohibition of private ownership of arms, creating a monopoly of force in the hands of the State.

In a January 18 article, People’s World, an official publication of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA), declared that “the ability to live free from the fear or threat of gun violence is a fundamental democratic right — one that far supercedes any so-called personal gun rights allegedly contained in the Second Amendment.”

http://www.infowars.com/communists-cheer-on-obamas-gun-grab/

And a Georgia representative speaks the truth about what is really going on here

U.S. Rep. Paul Broun, an Athens [Georgia] Republican, was asked if his role in Congress is to pull the House Republican leadership to the right – given that he is often voting against their wishes and pushing a more conservative course.

Broun said his cause is far bigger, and tied the conversation to President Barack Obama’s inauguration Monday.

“I think my role is to uphold support and defend our Constitution,” he said. “… The Constitution I uphold and defend is the one I carry in my pocket all the time, the U.S. Constitution. I don’t know what Constitution that other members of Congress uphold, but it’s not this one. I think the only Constitution that Barack Obama upholds is the Soviet constitution, not this one. He has no concept of this one, though he claimed to be a constitutional lawyer.”

http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2013/01/23/your-daily-jolt-gpb-producer-resigns-over-hiring-of-chip-rogers/

http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/intelligencer/2013/01/24/24-barack-obama-soviet-constitution.o.jpg/a_560x375.jpg

ricardisimo
01-25-2013, 09:45 PM
To your last point, about people with guns not wanting to hang out together...I call BS. We hang out together at gun ranges, and gun shows all the time, no problems (well, except for some random, and atypical accidents like happened last week...but that can be addressed easily). I've never once feared for my life when going out to do some target shooting.

We are not Iceland (or I should say, we don't have Iceland's gov't). If we ever plan to overthrow our gov't, it's not going to be with pots and pans lol. And you're right...we have staved off nothing. And efforts to do so have been small, unorganized, and ineffective. My point still stands though. You're utopian dream of fixing our gov't with words isn't going to happen either, or else it would have been fixed a long time ago. It's just the way it is with tyrannical superpowers.
My point was regarding neighborhood association and PTA meetings, labor unions, city council meetings, etc. If you think guns help in any of those settings, well, then I don't know what to tell you. I'm not sure how much social change one can expect from a shooting range or gun show. And I think you're missing the point of the examples from Iceland, Czechoslovakia and Occupy. Rather than snickering and dismissing them we should be expanding from where they left off.

MACH1
01-26-2013, 12:23 AM
Funny you mention city council meetings.


Councilman tries to pass a motion to disarm citizen at meeting, when it fails he walks out like a whiny little baby.
kKpLhNiC8zg

SteelCityMom
01-26-2013, 08:26 AM
My point was regarding neighborhood association and PTA meetings, labor unions, city council meetings, etc. If you think guns help in any of those settings, well, then I don't know what to tell you. I'm not sure how much social change one can expect from a shooting range or gun show. And I think you're missing the point of the examples from Iceland, Czechoslovakia and Occupy. Rather than snickering and dismissing them we should be expanding from where they left off.

That's up to the local communities to decide whether they want people to be allowed to carry in those places or not. That's not for the federal gov't, or you or me alone, to decide. I'm not saying they would help or hinder. I'm saying it probably wouldn't make a difference.

Not all social change comes from PTA meetings and city council meetings either. Sometimes, when a change in gov't is needed, things happen outside of those venues....usually where people who are interested in changing what the gov't is doing tend to gather.

I'm not missing the point on what Iceland did (and don't get me started on Occupy...they are a bad example of peaceful revolution). And I'm certainly not snickering and dismissing them. I'm saying that the US is the dominant world power though, and if peaceful tactics were going to work, they would have worked already. Corporations and money are running the country right now, with weapons to back them up. Defending yourself with words against a police state is just going to leave you sitting to rot, or worse. History has proven this.

As always, I understand your point of view. And I'm not trying to say you're bad or wrong for feeling that way (well, maybe a little wrong :wink:). I wish the solutions were as easy as you feel they are. We're not rallying against some two bit gov't though.

BlaZeQuietly
01-26-2013, 01:24 PM
Yeah it was hand guns in the VA tech shooting... thats not really my point though it WAS a bushmaster at newtown, thats a fact im pretty sure. Whatever, it really doesnt matter, we can ban guns, I don't think it will make much of a difference, there will still be just as much gun crime. I'm just saying theres no reason anyone needs to own an ar-15, whether its going to make a difference with murder rates, or mass shootings, whatever, they should not be allowed, all they are good for is killing a bunch of people real fast. Shot guns, Rifles etc are just fine to defend your self or go hunting, you don't need an ar-15, just like you dont need a ball of coke, whatever.

SteelCityMom
01-26-2013, 04:55 PM
Yeah it was hand guns in the VA tech shooting... thats not really my point though it WAS a bushmaster at newtown, thats a fact im pretty sure. Whatever, it really doesnt matter, we can ban guns, I don't think it will make much of a difference, there will still be just as much gun crime. I'm just saying theres no reason anyone needs to own an ar-15, whether its going to make a difference with murder rates, or mass shootings, whatever, they should not be allowed, all they are good for is killing a bunch of people real fast. Shot guns, Rifles etc are just fine to defend your self or go hunting, you don't need an ar-15, just like you dont need a ball of coke, whatever.

Maybe I DO need a ball of coke. :hyper: :chuckle:

No, but I do need weed, and it's none of the gov'ts business. Those fuckers can stuff it.

And as it's been mentioned many times over, the 2nd amendment isn't about hunting. I feel we've given up enough freedoms to the gov't. It HAS to stop somewhere, or it will stop nowhere.