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harrison'samonster
01-25-2013, 11:47 AM
I'm really looking forward to seeing how they play next year with Timmons, Polamalu, and possibly Spence starting and healthy. When is the last time we've had as much speed and talent in those three positions consistently throughout one season? Do you think it would be easy for an offense to create mismatches w/RB's and TE's?

If Worilds starts and Woodley gets back into form, we could have a good pass rush going on.

We all know that the linebackers and the SS (almost a 5th linebacker) are the key to our defense. And this group could potentially create the havoc, panic, and confusion we need to force mistakes and turnovers.

I'm not worried about next year but looking forward to it. We've got all the pieces, we just need to see them play up to their potential. There are a lot of questions, but they could possibly be a great combination.

StainlessStill
01-25-2013, 11:54 AM
I'm not too optimistic of our ability to stay healthy. We shall see.

steelfury02
01-25-2013, 12:24 PM
Troy's health

Woodley has a lot to do

Spence has potential but nothing proved yet

Lots of Qs for me to get excited

harrison'samonster
01-25-2013, 12:26 PM
Troy's health

Woodley has a lot to do

Spence has potential but nothing proved yet

Lots of Qs for me to get excited

I agree, health is a big issue and Spence has proven nothing. I guess that's partly why I am so excited.

SteelersCanada
01-25-2013, 12:34 PM
I'm not sold on Spence at all and quite frankly, I think he was a wasted pick. He's fast and agile, granted, but he's small. He plays more like a SS than an ILB and I don't think his skillset is going to translate well into the NFL. While he has great intangibles and great awareness, I question his ability to make tackles or stuff the run against bigger Running Backs. He plays more like a 3rd-and-passing distance ILB that can cover TEs and slot WRs.

A third round pick on him was kind of high, especially considering who we could've taken with that pick. Guys like Hilton, Turbin and because there's been such a high demand for a Quarterback to back-up Roethlisberger, Cousins were still on the board when we chose Spence.

I feel like we're going to have to spend another third round pick on someone like Nico Johnson from Alabama to be our legitimate ILB to play alongside Timmons. They're going to have to consider moving Spence to FS or SS for him to have a legitimate shot at starting in the NFL because frankly, he's just too small.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
01-25-2013, 01:09 PM
I'm not sold on Spence at all and quite frankly, I think he was a wasted pick. He's fast and agile, granted, but he's small. He plays more like a SS than an ILB and I don't think his skillset is going to translate well into the NFL. While he has great intangibles and great awareness, I question his ability to make tackles or stuff the run against bigger Running Backs. He plays more like a 3rd-and-passing distance ILB that can cover TEs and slot WRs.

A third round pick on him was kind of high, especially considering who we could've taken with that pick. Guys like Hilton, Turbin and because there's been such a high demand for a Quarterback to back-up Roethlisberger, Cousins were still on the board when we chose Spence.

I feel like we're going to have to spend another third round pick on someone like Nico Johnson from Alabama to be our legitimate ILB to play alongside Timmons. They're going to have to consider moving Spence to FS or SS for him to have a legitimate shot at starting in the NFL because frankly, he's just too small.

No way spence is a safety. Although I'm not sold on him either only because he had a redshirt year so to speak but he's listed on the steelers website as 231lbs, foote is listed as 239lbs and farrior when he played was 240 or less through the season. I'm sure with the strength training program, he will be around what foote is coming into training camp.

Like I said I'm not sold on him either that's just cause he hasn't played( I think he will contribute once he can show what he can do ), but don't say he's to small and that's why you don't think he can play.

Nico Johnson would not be the answer , he is terrible in coverage, good to stop the run but bad in coverage, and we all want someone next to Timmons that can cover to free Timmons from those responsibilities.

harrison'samonster
01-25-2013, 01:15 PM
No way spence is a safety. Although I'm not sold on him either only because he had a redshirt year so to speak but he's listed on the steelers website as 231lbs, foote is listed as 239lbs and farrior when he played was 240 or less through the season. I'm sure with the strength training program, he will be around what foote is coming into training camp.

Like I said I'm not sold on him either that's just cause he hasn't played( I think he will contribute once he can show what he can do ), but don't say he's to small and that's why you don't think he can play.

Nico Johnson would not be the answer , he is terrible in coverage, good to stop the run but bad in coverage, and we all want someone next to Timmons that can cover to free Timmons from those responsibilities.

That's a good point. Them working together as a unit is going to be the key. They''ll be able to be more creative and hopefully more aggressive leading to turnovers.

maddog78
01-25-2013, 01:18 PM
If we insist on playing 2-gap read/react with Heyward, McClendon, and Hood (assuming Hamp and Keis are gone) expect the DL to get dominated on a weekly basis. These guys are one-gappers.

fer522
01-25-2013, 01:28 PM
What if we took Te'o R1, move Spence to SS or FS let him learn the schemes for 1 year and if Troy gets hurt again, you cut him. :noidea:

WokeUpWithaWoodley
01-25-2013, 01:30 PM
That's a good point. Them working together as a unit is going to be the key. They''ll be able to be more creative and hopefully more aggressive leading to turnovers.

Yeah turnovers will be the key next year. And let's not forget about slyvester it will be interesting to see who is next to Timmons next year, spence slyvester draft pick who knows at this point

SteelersCanada
01-25-2013, 02:17 PM
No way spence is a safety. Although I'm not sold on him either only because he had a redshirt year so to speak but he's listed on the steelers website as 231lbs, foote is listed as 239lbs and farrior when he played was 240 or less through the season. I'm sure with the strength training program, he will be around what foote is coming into training camp.

He's also under 6 ft. tall. He's small, agile and fast, something I've already said, but 10 pounds is a lot for someone to bulk up and not lose their main asset. If he were to put on 10 pounds, do you think he'd be able to maintain the same speed he has now? It would hinder it, which is the only thing Spence has going for him.

Like I said I'm not sold on him either that's just cause he hasn't played( I think he will contribute once he can show what he can do ), but don't say he's to small and that's why you don't think he can play.

I'm sorry, that's exactly why he can't play. Look at some of the best inside guys in the game right now - they're all over 240 and over 6 ft tall. When he played people kept talking about the flashes and potential he had, but I didn't see any of that. In fact, I saw a guy that was getting knocked around by bigger Running Backs.

He's too small. He's not big enough to play inside with Timmons. Do you honestly think he'd match up well against someone like Richardson? He'd get his ass handed to him time and time again. He's decent enough in coverage due to his speed, but this can also be a liability. If he's forced to tackle someone like Gronk, Hernandez or even Pitta, he's going to struggle. Again, his size works against him.

He has the instincts and awareness of Polamalu, but this doesn't translate to ILB.

Nico Johnson would not be the answer , he is terrible in coverage, good to stop the run but bad in coverage, and we all want someone next to Timmons that can cover to free Timmons from those responsibilities.

Nico Johnson is 6'1 245 and isn't terrible in coverage. Have you watched Alabama games? He doesn't have the same speed as Spence but he's able to locate and tackle efficiently. He's great against the run and can blitz effectively. He's the anti-Spence and at this point, that's all I'm asking for.

He's big enough to be disruptive at the line of scrimmage but also has decent enough speed to cover TEs and slot receivers over the middle effectively. He also wouldn't get bent over trying to make tackles against bigger receivers and TEs.

I'm all for finally letting Timmons be used effectively, but if we're using Spence it would ultimately cause more problems than it would solutions. Spence would be a liability in the run game and would get easily knocked around by bigger Backs and wouldn't be able to blitz effectively. Spence is a one-dimensional Linebacker.

Johnson can cover and blitz, something that Foote and Farrior weren't capable of doing. He's just fast enough to be a cover guys over the middle but can blitz and disrupt the line with Timmons.

pczach
01-25-2013, 02:49 PM
I really like the idea of drafting Mike Mauti from Penn State. I know he has the knee injuries, but he should be available late. He's a real playmaker. He's a natural leader and a quality kid. He's very good in pass defense and catches the ball when it's anywhere near him. He's also an everydown linebacker and a very good tackler. I say play who we have and let this guy heal up and learn our system. I think he has a chance to be an outstanding linebacker. This sums him up well. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1499842-penn-state-football-breaking-down-michael-mautis-nfl-draft-stock

FrancoLambert
01-25-2013, 05:50 PM
I can't see spence becoming an NFL safety.

Steelers5895
01-25-2013, 06:25 PM
Spence was drafted with special teams in mind. fast enough to get down field and blow up the special teams plays. no one looked at him as a potential starter. Injury fill in maybe. dont be shocked if he is cut. his knee injury was catostrophic from what I heard.

I have no expectations for this defense.

Now, this was the first time in 3 seasons Troy and Harrison entered the off season without a nagging injury or the need for surgery. That will keep Troy on the team but wont save Harrison.

Worlids replacing Harrison and a Woodley in better shape and witht he way Timmons played last year this could be the standard top 5 defense in yards again.

the question is, can they create splash plays, turnovers, sacks and hold leads?

I dont see any play makers.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
01-25-2013, 06:33 PM
Nico Johnson is 6'1 245 and isn't terrible in coverage. Have you watched Alabama games? He doesn't have the same speed as Spence but he's able to locate and tackle efficiently. He's great against the run and can blitz effectively. He's the anti-Spence and at this point, that's all I'm asking for.

He's big enough to be disruptive at the line of scrimmage but also has decent enough speed to cover TEs and slot receivers over the middle effectively. He also wouldn't get bent over trying to make tackles against bigger receivers and TEs.

I'm all for finally letting Timmons be used effectively, but if we're using Spence it would ultimately cause more problems than it would solutions. Spence would be a liability in the run game and would get easily knocked around by bigger Backs and wouldn't be able to blitz effectively. Spence is a one-dimensional Linebacker.

Johnson can cover and blitz, something that Foote and Farrior weren't capable of doing. He's just fast enough to be a cover guys over the middle but can blitz and disrupt the line with Timmons.

This is from walterfootball, there are many other scouts take on Johnson that say the samething.


Skill-Set Summary: The biggest strength for Johnson as a defender is his run defense. He is tough and physical at the point of attack. Johnson has no issues wrapping big backs and bringing them to the ground. He flows pretty well in the direction of plays and is able to get on some perimeter runs. There is no hesitation in taking on blockers and Johnson does well holding his ground.

Johnson does not look like the best of athletes. He is not a fast linebacker that can cover a lot of ground. His instincts and awareness seem to be a little slow as well. If he improves his ability to read his keys and shows better instincts that could help make up for a lack of foot speed.

In pass defense Johnson does not cover a lot of ground. He also looks like a mismatch in man coverage versus backs or tight ends. The best route to go with Johnson as a pass defender is to have him blitz the quarterback. He's looked pretty good as a blitzer in limited opportunities, but he should see many more opportunities in 2012.

In the NFL, Johnson looks like he would best used as a rotational linebacker in obvious running situations. That probably means Johnson is just a backup because the NFL is based in the passing attack and nickel defenses. He would fit best on the inside of a 3-4 defense and doesn't have the speed to be a middle linebacker in a 4-3. Johnson should be a good special teams contributor.

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2013njohnson.php

harrison'samonster
01-25-2013, 06:38 PM
Spence was drafted with special teams in mind. fast enough to get down field and blow up the special teams plays. no one looked at him as a potential starter. Injury fill in maybe. dont be shocked if he is cut. his knee injury was catostrophic from what I heard.

I have no expectations for this defense.

Now, this was the first time in 3 seasons Troy and Harrison entered the off season without a nagging injury or the need for surgery. That will keep Troy on the team but wont save Harrison.

Worlids replacing Harrison and a Woodley in better shape and witht he way Timmons played last year this could be the standard top 5 defense in yards again.

the question is, can they create splash plays, turnovers, sacks and hold leads?

I dont see any play makers.

drafted in the 3rd round to play special teams?

If Worilds and Woodley get better pressure on the QB, and Polamalu and Timmons can play together and stay healthy I think this defense could make the big plays next year.

Steelers5895
01-25-2013, 06:45 PM
drafted in the 3rd round to play special teams?

If Worilds and Woodley get better pressure on the QB, and Polamalu and Timmons can play together and stay healthy I think this defense could make the big plays next year.

I cant see any other logic. The 3-4 ILB have to be big enough to stuff the run. The DL take the blockers to free up the LBs to make the plays. His weakness was run stuffing. Our weakness was special teams. He could have been a special teams monster.

i doubted the pick from when it was made. another wasted pick

WokeUpWithaWoodley
01-25-2013, 06:52 PM
He's also under 6 ft. tall. He's small, agile and fast, something I've already said, but 10 pounds is a lot for someone to bulk up and not lose their main asset. If he were to put on 10 pounds, do you think he'd be able to maintain the same speed he has now? It would hinder it, which is the only thing Spence has going for him.



I'm sorry, that's exactly why he can't play. Look at some of the best inside guys in the game right now - they're all over 240 and over 6 ft tall. When he played people kept talking about the flashes and potential he had, but I didn't see any of that. In fact, I saw a guy that was getting knocked around by bigger Running .

So London fletcher is a bad linebacker because he is 5-10 Zach Thomas was also bad because he was 5-11. Drew Bree's, russel Wilson, Doug flute, were to small to be good at Qb. Wes walker being 5-9 same as Steve smith make them bad receivers because wr should be 6-0 taller as well. Bob sanders, Antonio Winfield, are 5-8 5-9 safeties that's should be to small as well right? I can keep going

Don't judge a player based on his height and weight because it was proven to be wrong every year with players not being the prototypical size and height and being great.

We have seen spence only in preseason his rookie year in limited time. And no 10 pounds wouldn't hinder the fact that he can cover. Also to the point of weight I can find the article so take this for what you want but farrior has said during the season he would be around 230 that was his playing weight.

cbrunn
01-25-2013, 06:53 PM
Spence was drafted to be the Starter ... his size will hamper him a little but his instincts more then make up for it ... as long as he comes back healthy

He was also drafted cause I really believe Tomlin wants to move to a 4-3 after Lebeau is gone , whenever that will be...

cbrunn
01-25-2013, 06:55 PM
So London fletcher is a bad linebacker because he is 5-10 Zach Thomas was all bad because he was 5-11. Drew Bree's, russel Wilson, Doug flute, were to small to be good at Qb. Wes walker being 5-9 same as Steve smith make them bad receivers because wr should be 6-0 taller as well. Bob sanders, Antonio Winfield, are 5-8 5-9 safeties that's should be to small as well right?

Don't judge a player based on his height and weight because it was proven to be wrong every year with players not being the prototypical size and height and being great.

We have seen spence only in preseason his rookie year in limited time. And no 10 pounds wouldn't hinder the fact that he can cover. Also to the point of weight I can find the article so take this for what you want but farrior has said during the season he would be around 230 that was his playing weight.

Another player in this draft I like that's getting over looked because of his size is DB Nigel Malone ... all he does is make plays, someone I would look at in the 6th or 7th

harrison'samonster
01-25-2013, 06:58 PM
I think the only thing hindering Spence is his recovery. I hope he can make it back onto the field.

I think Farrior was even down to 218 one season, but the next season he intentionally added weight.

desertsteel
01-25-2013, 06:58 PM
Spence was drafted with special teams in mind. .

Wut??? lol

BKAnthem
01-25-2013, 07:17 PM
Spence was drafted with special teams in mind. fast enough to get down field and blow up the special teams plays.
.

In the 3rd round???

NSMaster56
01-25-2013, 07:25 PM
If this D can fix the pass rush AND remember how to force TO's... the sky's the limit.

Need to stay healthy, need to draft more young 'uns, need to plug any/all young 'uns into the right roles and then need those young 'uns to step up.

A more efficient O would help alleviate problems, too.

Hawaii 5-0
01-25-2013, 07:40 PM
Spence was drafted with special teams in mind. fast enough to get down field and blow up the special teams plays. no one looked at him as a potential starter.

the Steelers drafted Spence with him being on the field is passing situations and covering other teams' RBs and TEs in mind. you don't draft guys in the 3rd round to only play special teams.

as for Spence being a potential starter, I believe the Steelers fully hoped and still do that he will one day develop into an every down player.

DanRooney
01-25-2013, 09:29 PM
Spence is not going to start. LeBeau won't let him off the bench because it'd technically be his first year. According to his defense, there's no way in hell a guy can just jump into the starting lineup in the NFL in their first year. I mean look at how the 49ers D sucks with all those young guys. :chuckle:

SteelersCanada
01-26-2013, 10:39 AM
So London fletcher is a bad linebacker because he is 5-10 Zach Thomas was also bad because he was 5-11. Drew Bree's, russel Wilson, Doug flute, were to small to be good at Qb. Wes walker being 5-9 same as Steve smith make them bad receivers because wr should be 6-0 taller as well. Bob sanders, Antonio Winfield, are 5-8 5-9 safeties that's should be to small as well right? I can keep going

London Fletcher is 240 and Thomas was over 240. Don't bring in Quarterback comparisons because it's apples and oranges. Drew Brees and Russel Wilson aren't tackling Hernandez, Gronk, and Richardson.

Comparing offensive players to an ILB isn't a fair comparison. They aren't trying to make plays in the middle of the field and bring down guys who are 240+ on almost every play.

Don't judge a player based on his height and weight because it was proven to be wrong every year with players not being the prototypical size and height and being great.

You're right - don't judge offensive players on their weight. Show me another ILB that's 230. I don't mean in the 230's, I mean another ILB that is 230 - 232 lbs. He's too small and if he puts on size, he's taking away from his one and only asset - coverage speed. He can't blitz, he can't tackle guys bigger than him consistently and he has a hard time disengaging Guards and Tackles at the line to make a tackle for loss. He's a 3rd-and-passing distance ILB that they're hoping and praying can develop into an every-down, but I doubt it. If he puts on size, he loses his only asset and the only thing he brings to the table.

We have seen spence only in preseason his rookie year in limited time. And no 10 pounds wouldn't hinder the fact that he can cover. Also to the point of weight I can find the article so take this for what you want but farrior has said during the season he would be around 230 that was his playing weight.

So, you haven't watched him at all playing for Miami? I guess that's why you're so high on this kid. Go watch college film on him and tell me that's our next ILB.

10 pounds might not seem like a lot of weight on paper but in reality, it's a lot of weight to put on.

That's great for Farrior and that's why he wasn't ever - in his career - a top 10 Linebacker. We don't need someone that is 230 trying to tackle Gronkowski and Hernandez because frankly, it'd be embarrassing.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
01-26-2013, 11:56 AM
London Fletcher is 240 and Thomas was over 240. Don't bring in Quarterback comparisons because it's apples and oranges. Drew Brees and Russel Wilson aren't tackling Hernandez, Gronk, and Richardson.

Comparing offensive players to an ILB isn't a fair comparison. They aren't trying to make plays in the middle of the field and bring down guys who are 240+ on almost every play..
You were talking about spence only being 5-11 im showing you two very good linebackers who were that height. Like I said earlier and some else verified my comment that farrior was playing around 230 or under, he had no probably tackling big backs and tight ends.

I'm showing you cant also go by what the typical height weight for positions players are n the nfl I showed you two safeties that were very good at 5-9 and you want safeties to be 5-11 and up, I showed you two great wr who are 5-8 5-9 who are pro bowlers in a league where wr should be 6-0 and up. Just like how you say linebackers should weigh more cause of running backs and tight ends, well wr should be taller cause corners are 5-11 and up so you would think welker and smith would not be good but that's the opposite because they are football players.

You're right - don't judge offensive players on their weight. Show me another ILB that's 230. I don't mean in the 230's, I mean another ILB that is 230 - 232 lbs. He's too small and if he puts on size, he's taking away from his one and only asset - coverage speed. He can't blitz, he can't tackle guys bigger than him consistently and he has a hard time disengaging Guards and Tackles at the line to make a tackle for loss. He's a 3rd-and-passing distance ILB that they're hoping and praying can develop into an every-down, but I doubt it. If he puts on size, he loses his only asset and the only thing he brings to the table. .
Here's a snipet from the Baltimore sun http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-08-03/sports/bal-ray-lewis-part-of-trend-of-leaner-linebackers-in-the-nfl-20120803_1_ray-lewis-nfl-evaluators-linebackers

A lean Lewis reported to training camp last week and acknowledged he is probably the lightest that he’s been since he arrived in Baltimore as a rookie in 1996, burdened by questions about whether he was too small to hold up at middle linebacker.

Sixteen years, 2,586 tackles and 13 Pro Bowl invites later, those questions are again being asked of Lewis who put himself through a rigorous offseason workout program he says has him weighing less than 240 pounds.

Lewis has played much of his career between 250 and 260 pounds.

"It is a passing game,” said Lewis, who has declined to reveal his exact weight. Lewis weighed 235 pounds in his rookie season. “It’s a quick game [that] they want. Offenses want to really exploit 30-40 points a weekend. It’s about creating mismatches, I think.”

“I think it will become a trend,” said Larry Coyer, a former defensive coordinator for the Denver Broncos and the Indianapolis Colts. “It’s changed in college football and [teams] are playing tag football with the spread offenses. They are playing with different types of athletes than they used to play with. The Ohio States, Michigans, Nebraskas, Oklahomas, they were going to pound you. But they don’t do that anymore. They are spread offenses. [The NFL] is getting the athletes that are available to them: fast, skilled, smaller and more athletic guys.”

"Daniel Jeremiah scouted the NFL for the past eight seasons, including a stint with the Ravens. He isn’t sure if other veteran NFL linebackers will follow the lead of Lewis and fellow Ravens’ inside linebacker Jameel McClain, who also shed some weight this offseason. But after watching the college game closely over the years, he can easily project where the pro game is headed.

"In the college game over the last eight years, linebackers have gotten smaller and smaller as a result of all the spread offenses that you see,”said Jeremiah, now an analyst for NFL.com. “There aren’t any 250-pound linebackers to draft.The last three or four years, the league has really started to get packed with these linebackers that are between 230 and 240. It seems to kind of be about the most you can get on a linebacker.”

Of course there is the expecting of Willis urlacher Cushing and such but it's a new era now like the what those experts have said.

So, you haven't watched him at all playing for Miami? I guess that's why you're so high on this kid. Go watch college film on him and tell me that's our next ILB.

10 pounds might not seem like a lot of weight on paper but in reality, it's a lot of weight to put on.

That's great for Farrior and that's why he wasn't ever - in his career - a top 10 Linebacker. We don't need someone that is 230 trying to tackle Gronkowski and Hernandez because frankly, it'd be embarrassing.

I never said I was high on him go back and look I said he is unproven but has the upside to be very good. The same upside you think of Jordan.

And spence was very good in the run game at Miami he has 46 tackles for lose in his career. He shoots gaps very well to stop the running backs. I've watch a lot of film on him actually esp last year. Go look at Harrison college film, look at kiesel and smith film, Ryan Clark, those guys won't impress you. There are first round Selections ever year with great college film who turn out to be complete busts. That's what the nfl is so interesting because of the unknown factor you never know what your going to get until you put them on the field.

Farrior was the heart and soul of our defense, you can't have top 10 guys at every position the salary cap doesn't allow it.

Safeties and corners tackle those guys all the time and they aren't 240.

SteelersCanada
01-26-2013, 01:46 PM
You were talking about spence only being 5-11 im showing you two very good linebackers who were that height. Like I said earlier and some else verified my comment that farrior was playing around 230 or under, he had no probably tackling big backs and tight ends.

Farrior was a good, not great, Linebacker. He was lean and could tackle, sure, but he couldn't cover. They're two different Linebackers and comparing them - even by weight - is a mistake. I get what you're saying, I do, but even back then I questioned his weight.

I'm showing you cant also go by what the typical height weight for positions players are n the nfl I showed you two safeties that were very good at 5-9 and you want safeties to be 5-11 and up, I showed you two great wr who are 5-8 5-9 who are pro bowlers in a league where wr should be 6-0 and up. Just like how you say linebackers should weigh more cause of running backs and tight ends, well wr should be taller cause corners are 5-11 and up so you would think welker and smith would not be good but that's the opposite because they are football players.

That ideology isn't great. Sure, there are the occasional players that are undersized that do well, but for the most part, they're unconventional and specialist players. Look at Chris Rainey, for example. He's fast and can catch out of the backfield in the flat, but he couldn't take a hit because he was too small.

There are guys like Flowers and Welker that are undersized and do great things in the league, but it's few and far between that small guys achieve anything. For every single guy you named there's 100 guys that are of a similar stature that didn't achieve or do anything in this league because of the obvious disadvantage and handicap they have of being too small.

Here's a snipet from the Baltimore sun http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-08-03/sports/bal-ray-lewis-part-of-trend-of-leaner-linebackers-in-the-nfl-20120803_1_ray-lewis-nfl-evaluators-linebackers

I'm going to be honest here, I only read where Lewis said he was 235 and that's fantastic. I'm happy for him being 235 and achieving. You have to understand that this isn't the norm and even now, it's unusual to see a truly great ILB be under 240.

Of course there is the expecting of Willis urlacher Cushing and such but it's a new era now like the what those experts have said.

Uh, Willis is the new generation of Linebacker. He was drafted in 2007. Brian Cushing, who is a top 5 ILB, was drafted in 2009. These guys are the new era and prototypical Linebacker because they're two dimensional and possess both the ability to cover and make plays in the backfield. Spence is a one dimensional player because of his size and doesn't have the ability to make tackles and take on bigger backs, let alone shed blocks or disrupt an offensive line.

Let's look at the top 5 ILBs in the NFL, shall we?

1. Willis
2. Cushing
3. Bowman
4. Timmons (when used properly for Christ sake)
5. Beason

What do all those guys have in common? They're all prototypical size and strength, and possess the ability to be an every-down Linebacker. Spence doesn't have the strength or size to be an every-down and ultimately, he's a one-trick pony. He can defend the pass which is fantastic, but again, this ultimately means he's a 3rd down Linebacker.

I never said I was high on him go back and look I said he is unproven but has the upside to be very good. The same upside you think of Jordan.

And spence was very good in the run game at Miami he has 46 tackles for lose in his career. He shoots gaps very well to stop the running backs. I've watch a lot of film on him actually esp last year. Go look at Harrison college film, look at kiesel and smith film, Ryan Clark, those guys won't impress you. There are first round Selections ever year with great college film who turn out to be complete busts. That's what the nfl is so interesting because of the unknown factor you never know what your going to get until you put them on the field.

He has the upside to be a 3rd-and-passing distance inside Linebacker. Jordan has shown the ability to get sacks, shed blocks and use his size to his advantage.

So, you're taking collegiate stats and applying them to NFL potential? You realize that all scouts, GMs and coaches don't look at stats, yes? He played for Miami and was the only player on that defense that could do anything and was often overlooked and unblocked. Sure, he could get into the backfield when he had a direct shot into it and right on the RB but who couldn't do that? He also didn't play against any bigger, stronger Backs consistently and when he did, he got knocked around consistently.

He doesn't have the strength to be a consistent ILB in the NFL. He put up 12 reps on the bench at the combine and you're expecting him to tackle bigger, stronger and faster TEs? Really? I'd question whether or not he'd even be able to put up his own body weight more than 5 times at this point. He'd have to put on significant muscle and size to become an every down Linebacker which would impede his speed.

Think about that for a second. 12 reps. Asking someone with that kind of strength and size to tackle Pitta, Gronk, Hernandez, Richardson and Gresham isn't realistic. He would get tossed around like a rag-doll.

I don't know what you were saying with the rest of that paragraph because it doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about. Why don't we draft a 5'4 210 ILB because of the 'unknown factor'?

harrison'samonster
01-26-2013, 01:53 PM
SteelersCanada, you should have read the rest of the article, because it goes on to say what type of size LB's are trending towards.

You say that Willis is the new generation linebackers, I see him more as a physical phenom that won't be able to be doubled. Timmons is also on you list of top 5 ILB's, and to use him properly a player like Spence would come in handy.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
01-26-2013, 02:35 PM
SteelersCanada, you should have read the rest of the article, because it goes on to say what type of size LB's are trending towards.

You say that Willis is the new generation linebackers, I see him more as a physical phenom that won't be able to be doubled. Timmons is also on you list of top 5 ILB's, and to use him properly a player like Spence would come in handy.

Yeah I won't even comment back to his post. He missed the important part of that article, not worth my time

SteelersCanada
01-26-2013, 02:42 PM
SteelersCanada, you should have read the rest of the article, because it goes on to say what type of size LB's are trending towards.

You say that Willis is the new generation linebackers, I see him more as a physical phenom that won't be able to be doubled. Timmons is also on you list of top 5 ILB's, and to use him properly a player like Spence would come in handy.

I did go back and read it, but it doesn't make any sense. The guy is talking like the new generation of Linebackers doesn't include Willis. You say he's a physical specimen, I say guys like him are going to become more and more common. Look at someone like Bowman - drafted only a couple years ago and is now one of the best Linebackers in the game. Guys like Cushing just reinforce this point. The same could be said for Stephen Tulloch. These younger guys are the prototypical Linebackers and this isn't going to change.

He has a point, but he needs to be talking about OLBs, not ILBs. OLBs are becoming leaner, faster and bigger which is true, but the prototypical ILB is still here and is going to be here for a while.

Look, I get and understand that having someone like Spence would allow Timmons to finally play his game which would be a wonderful thing. But, you guys also have to realize that Spence would be a liability in the run game or when he's asked to blitz. He's the definition of a one-trick pony. He's not strong and lacks elite size, but we're all exciting over the prospect of him? He excels in one area, albeit an area that would let Timmons become a top 3 'Backer, but one area. I'd much rather have a well rounded, more physical and better overall prospect than Spence. Guys like Ogletree, Arthur Brown even Johnson are all better prospects and are good in all areas of the game.

I very much doubt that you, WokeUp and I are ever going to see eye-to-eye on this and that's fine, it's what makes this forum interesting. I get what you guys are saying, I really do. I just hope you guys see where I'm coming from.

Yeah I won't even comment back to his post. He missed the important part of that article, not worth my time

It's not worth your time? You do realize that you're talking about the minority here and are acting like it's going to be a booming thing. Great, there's smaller, faster Linebackers and they're on the upswing but says who? Says this guy? The only guy I see right now that fits this guys mold is Luke Kuechly, and he had trouble making plays in the backfield this year. He's fast and explosive from sideline-to-sideline, but had trouble against bigger Running Backs.

Everything I've said goes directly against what that guy is coming with. What you and he fail to realize is that the 6'0+ 240+ inside Linebacker is here to stay and is always going to be here. Guys like Willis, Bowman, Cushing, Tulloch, Timmons, Posluszny and Sean Lee aren't the 'new generation' of Linebackers? Tell me, who is? Oh, you're right, it's a guy that put up 225 12 times at the combine. It's the guy that doesn't have elite size or strength and struggled bringing down bigger Running Backs and TEs in college. You're right, Sean Spence is the new generation of Linebacker.

Do you see why this makes absolutely no sense? The guy is cherry picking certain arguments that fit with his ideology and not seeing the grand scheme of things - Spence is a specialist player and can only be on the field in specific packages. The prototypical Linebacker is here and is going to be here.

Tell me, am I missing your point now? What is your point, even? That faster and more speedy Linebackers are the 'new generation' (they aren't, but that's besides the point right now)? Ok, that's fine, but Linebackers that put up 225 12 times at the combine aren't. Luke Kuechly is 6'0 235, which is around Spence's weight / height. He put up 225 27 times. He more than doubled Spence's numbers. Spence isn't strong and for him to put on muscle it would ultimately take away from his one asset.

Tell me, am I hitting your point now?

harrison'samonster
01-26-2013, 03:03 PM
I think it makes sense if you look at it in the context of defending against a more and more precise passing game attack. A player like Spence might allow a defense to become more dynamic and creative.

Will it hurt in the run game defense? You have a good point but I can't say that it definitely will.

Is Spence the answer? He might not be ready to go next year but I think his speed gives our defense a chance to try something new.

steeltheone
01-26-2013, 11:42 PM
Spence looks like a big " reach" at pick 3. I should look back and see who we missed out on for him.

Hawaii 5-0
01-27-2013, 01:26 AM
Spence looks like a big " reach" at pick 3. I should look back and see who we missed out on for him.

QB - Nick Foles and Kirk Cousins

RB - Robert Turbin

WR - T Y Hilton

bornaSteelersfan
01-27-2013, 02:07 AM
Sean Spence has an intangible talent that none of you have touched on. Yes, he is smallish, yes he is fast, yes, he is not strong. All of those things can be overcome with training and strength conditioning. More weight does not necessarily mean less speed (Look at how fast Timmons is). The thing Spence has is the ability to read plays, being aware of where the ball is and where it's going, and adjust immediately to it. Those things cannot be taught and it is rare. That is why he was picked.

I have said it before and I will say it again. Due to that ability, he will very likely become a safety for us. Not many agree, but his size and ability project it.

At this point, I am more concerned about the injury. It looked pretty bad at the time.

lloydwoodson
01-27-2013, 03:49 AM
Oh, you're right, it's a guy that put up 225 12 times at the combine. It's the guy that doesn't have elite size or strength and struggled bringing down bigger Running Backs and TEs in college. You're right, Sean Spence is the new generation of Linebacker.


Spence was injured at the combine...

"In the Senior Bowl I had a deep bone bruise (in the shoulder)," Spence said. "I wanted to show the scouts I wasn't scared to compete. I pushed out 12, but I know I can get more. As soon as I get healthy I'll do it again, videotape it and show whoever wants to see it."

steelfury02
01-27-2013, 08:24 AM
after reading through, I think we can all agree on one thing - this defense needs to start seeing more out of its draft picks - sooner rather than later

We can't afford for the defense to go to shit and have to spend 2-3 games re-adjusting to a weakness. If you look at the two SB teams this year they have 1 thing I think we haven't had since 2010 - quality, starter-ready D_E_P_T_H.

I'm not saying we don't have that - but to wait for injury to see a guy tested is a big mistake going forward IMO.

Knowing your assignment and not being a hero is great when everything is clicking - but right now, I'm seeing an opportunity to let some young guys make some mistakes and possibly learn that we have another player(s) capable of wreaking havoc and doing it in a new, creative way that we might not have had if we didn't see them out there - depth and element of surprise from a host of guys is key.

I'm wondering with Colberts comments if they realize they need to loosen the reigns because they know they can't be worse off in general - might as well see what you got. If you're winning and making mistakes early in the season - IMO, it can only get better and these new guys could have added benefits down the stretch.

kent
01-28-2013, 02:24 AM
Size and strength are important but they are not everything. That's why you see so many workout warriors and prototypes turn out to be busts. All that matters is if you can play football.

lloydwoodson
01-28-2013, 08:31 AM
Size and strength are important but they are not everything. That's why you see so many workout warriors and prototypes turn out to be busts. All that matters is if you can play football.

Does anyone know if Vernon Gholston is available? :chuckle:

austinfrench76
01-28-2013, 08:53 PM
Spence is very intriguing to me! So pumped to see if Lebeau tries and make him a Polomalu type or a true ILB??? Either way, gonna be interesting...

harrison'samonster
01-28-2013, 09:02 PM
Spence is very intriguing to me! So pumped to see if Lebeau tries and make him a Polomalu type or a true ILB??? Either way, gonna be interesting...

Yes! I know that he's not proven and he might not be the answer, but I think Lebeau is looking for another way to shake things up with a player like Spence.