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View Full Version : Chad Brown calls Lewis overrated


harrison'samonster
02-01-2013, 12:21 PM
Any body else see this? He says 10-15 % of his tackles he wasn't involved in and another 10% he was the last guy on the pile and got the credit.

I don't know if it's that much, but I definitely remember in his prime he was getting credit for tackles when all he did was jump on the pile.

I think his stats are misleading, true. But I don't think he's overrated, he was definitely a great player.

EDIT: That's Ray Lewis by the way

Atlanta Dan
02-01-2013, 12:47 PM
Chad also does not like the motivational acting out by Ray Ray (or, in days gone by, Greg Lloyd)

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/01/31/former-steeler-lb-chad-brown-ray-lewis-is-overrated/

Fire Arians
02-01-2013, 12:51 PM
i don't think he's overrated, he's definitely a 1st ballot HOFer. I don't like the guy but he's one of the best ever at his position.

as for chad brown, i wish we coulda kept him, he was a badass

SteelersCanada
02-01-2013, 01:21 PM
He's not overrated, but in the last couple years he's been talked up because of his name and not necessarily his play. I mean, the guy obviously lost a step and that's to be expected with age, but we're talking about him like he's still one of the best ILB in the NFL and frankly, I don't think he is. That torch was passed to guys like Beason and Willis a long time ago.

fansince'76
02-01-2013, 04:18 PM
Any body else see this? He says 10-15 % of his tackles he wasn't involved in and another 10% he was the last guy on the pile and got the credit.

I don't know if it's that much, but I definitely remember in his prime he was getting credit for tackles when all he did was jump on the pile.

Yeah, it's been quite noticeable, particularly at M&T Bank Stadium.

lloydwoodson
02-02-2013, 02:46 AM
Tackles are tracked by the teams themselves and not the NFL... consequently tackle stats mean nothing.

TRH
02-02-2013, 12:16 PM
i don't disagree w/Chad.

As a team leader : second to none, a fantastic motivator
As a media darling: absolutely top notch, great for attracting publicity to the team and to the city (and to himself - nothing wrong with that). Look at ESPN's top plays of the year for 2012 (at least the list i watched on their highlight reel 2 days ago). Lewis comes through the line and tackles a RB one-yard behind the line of scrimmage. Nothing spectacular, nothing we don't see 2 or 3 times a game from every team, every game - but because its "Lewis" it makes a top plays of the year reel. Some guys got flattened 5 yards behind the line, much more dynamic plays, and they don't even show up on these "lists".

As a linebacker : above-average to very good, no question. But there's plenty of guys who are, and who have in the past, wiped the floor with him at LB in comparison

I like Lewis but i'm really disagreeing with all this "best ever" stuff - by far.

harrison'samonster
02-02-2013, 12:31 PM
i don't disagree w/Chad.

As a team leader : second to none, a fantastic motivator
As a media darling: absolutely top notch, great for attracting publicity to the team and to the city (and to himself - nothing wrong with that). Look at ESPN's top plays of the year for 2012 (at least the list i watched on their highlight reel 2 days ago). Lewis comes through the line and tackles a RB one-yard behind the line of scrimmage. Nothing spectacular, nothing we don't see 2 or 3 times a game from every team, every game - but because its "Lewis" it makes a top plays of the year reel. Some guys got flattened 5 yards behind the line, much more dynamic plays, and they don't even show up on these "lists".

As a linebacker : above-average to very good, no question. But there's plenty of guys who are, and who have in the past, wiped the floor with him at LB in comparison

I like Lewis but i'm really disagreeing with all this "best ever" stuff - by far.

That the biggest problem i have when listening to ppl talk about players like Lewis. A lot of "best ever" talk is overblown media-hyped fantasizing regardless of which player their talking about. It's all fun to make lists and stuff, but it doesn't mean much when it comes to football.

i82much
02-02-2013, 06:56 PM
i don't disagree w/Chad.

As a team leader : second to none, a fantastic motivator
As a media darling: absolutely top notch, great for attracting publicity to the team and to the city (and to himself - nothing wrong with that). Look at ESPN's top plays of the year for 2012 (at least the list i watched on their highlight reel 2 days ago). Lewis comes through the line and tackles a RB one-yard behind the line of scrimmage. Nothing spectacular, nothing we don't see 2 or 3 times a game from every team, every game - but because its "Lewis" it makes a top plays of the year reel. Some guys got flattened 5 yards behind the line, much more dynamic plays, and they don't even show up on these "lists".

As a linebacker : above-average to very good, no question. But there's plenty of guys who are, and who have in the past, wiped the floor with him at LB in comparison

I like Lewis but i'm really disagreeing with all this "best ever" stuff - by far.

This is sugarcoated nonsense. There is no question Ray Lewis is an all-time great. No question. This is the equivalent of a Ravens fan saying Polamalu is overrated. Both examples of statements that are silly, stupid, and based entirely on personal feelings that have no basis in fact.

harrison'samonster
02-02-2013, 07:56 PM
This is sugarcoated nonsense. There is no question Ray Lewis is an all-time great. No question. This is the equivalent of a Ravens fan saying Polamalu is overrated. Both examples of statements that are silly, stupid, and based entirely on personal feelings that have no basis in fact.

I think calling somebody an all-time great is silly, stupid, and based entirely on personal feelings that have no basis in fact.

BleedPurple
02-02-2013, 08:15 PM
As a linebacker : above-average to very good, no question. But there's plenty of guys who are, and who have in the past, wiped the floor with him at LB in comparison




Name. . . 10--in the history of the league-- and I will tear apart any argument you make. Of the 10 you name I will point out how you must be a moron for putting 8 of them ahead of Lewis.

Above average? What a joke.

harrison'samonster
02-02-2013, 09:13 PM
Name. . . 10--in the history of the league-- and I will tear apart any argument you make. Of the 10 you name I will point out how you must be a moron for putting 8 of them ahead of Lewis.

Above average? What a joke.

in the whole history of the league? You mean I can go all the way back to 1996! That's when football was invented in Baltimore.

TRH
02-03-2013, 08:35 AM
This is sugarcoated nonsense. There is no question Ray Lewis is an all-time great. No question. This is the equivalent of a Ravens fan saying Polamalu is overrated. Both examples of statements that are silly, stupid, and based entirely on personal feelings that have no basis in fact.


everybody's entitled to their opinions. He's goes down as great - and i don't disagree with it - due more in part to his leadership attributes & popularity than his play on the field. I i don't even know how that can be disputed.
And his play on the field was no question above average/excellent.

And for the record, i have always liked Lewis, many times defending him and saying he would have been a great Steeler, while listening to others trash him on here. I just don't drink this "greatest ever Kool-aid". Once again, i don't disagree with Chad Brown.

WVABE
02-03-2013, 09:32 AM
There's no doubt Ray is one of the better LB's to have played the game and deserves the HOF honors.

As for the tackling, I see a lot of players just barely get a hand on the offensive player and get credit for a tackle or sack. Every team has a great player with hyped up numbers.

BleedPurple
02-03-2013, 01:48 PM
in the whole history of the league? You mean I can go all the way back to 1996! That's when football was invented in Baltimore.

lol, you can go back to 1896 if you want, there aren't 10 players better at MLB, not even arguably. I would argue there aren't 2 other players better at MLB, but that is definitely arguable as it gets crowded at the top.

Fire Arians
02-03-2013, 02:21 PM
lol, you can go back to 1896 if you want, there aren't 10 players better at MLB, not even arguably. I would argue there aren't 2 other players better at MLB, but that is definitely arguable as it gets crowded at the top.

i could, butkus and singletary

butkus was definitely the most intimidating ever

XavMnJDfavo

BleedPurple
02-03-2013, 03:17 PM
i could, butkus and singletary

butkus was definitely the most intimidating ever

XavMnJDfavo

Like I said, 2 is arguable as I think Butkus, Lambert, and Singletary are all in that conversation. But I'm arguing against someone who called him above average to very good, who you will notice has not chimed in with his list of 10 all time that are better, because you run out of choices that make sense when you get to 3 or 4.

Fire Arians
02-03-2013, 03:43 PM
Like I said, 2 is arguable as I think Butkus, Lambert, and Singletary are all in that conversation. But I'm arguing against someone who called him above average to very good, who you will notice has not chimed in with his list of 10 all time that are better, because you run out of choices that make sense when you get to 3 or 4.

true, well if anyone says he's average is sipping the haterade. i personally don't like the guy and have no love for the ravens, but ray lewis was a great player and lock in for the HOF without a doubt. even enemies can show respect, cheers.

Edman
02-03-2013, 04:05 PM
1996-2006 Ray Lewis: Easily one of the best to ever play. No question.

2007-Present Ray Lewis: Pompous Pilejumper who is still a decent player, but nowhere near the best. Barks more than bites.

Funny how it was around the latter part was when Ray started running his mouth a lot more often about how great he is. But his early years are still quite fantastic and easily makes in a shoo-in for the HOF.

Atlanta Dan
02-03-2013, 04:47 PM
Ray Lewis must be the best football player in the world, right?
Hardly. Lewis, who was the MVP of that Super Bowl in 2001, is retiring after this season, and you can argue it's a year or two late. He still racks up a bunch of tackles, but that's a lousy way to gauge a defensive player's effectiveness. He's a step or three slow and tends to drift in pass coverage. He's more an emotional leader than a defensive standout anymore. But mostly: He's a relentless self-promoter. He has perfected the art of getting cameras on him at all times, from every possible angle.

Didn't he kill a guy?
He was never convicted. He is the only person to be charged in the murder of Richard Loller in January 2000, but with obstruction of justice. Lewis isn't particularly fond of discussing the case, but note that the victim's family feels otherwise. Lewis, of course, has turned the crime into his own redemption narrative, the story of his journey to self-discovery.

Man, Ray Lewis is a dick.
He really is. Oh, and don't ask him about deer-antler spray.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/02/your-super-bowl-primer-faq.html

lloydwoodson
02-06-2013, 08:43 PM
Like I said, 2 is arguable as I think Butkus, Lambert, and Singletary are all in that conversation. But I'm arguing against someone who called him above average to very good, who you will notice has not chimed in with his list of 10 all time that are better, because you run out of choices that make sense when you get to 3 or 4.

You can add Willie Lanier, Ray Nitschke and Junior Seau to the list.

steelerchad
02-06-2013, 10:43 PM
lol, you can go back to 1896 if you want, there aren't 10 players better at MLB, not even arguably. I would argue there aren't 2 other players better at MLB, but that is definitely arguable as it gets crowded at the top.

10 might be a stretch, but he did say LB and you changed it to MLB. So you can definately add LT to the list along with Butkus, Singletary, Lambert.

steelerchad
02-06-2013, 10:49 PM
I might slide him in around #5 as I can't really say about the older guys. Only other guy in the Super Bowl era I can think of would be Derrick Thomas, but I think Lewis edges him out.

i82much
02-08-2013, 08:52 PM
everybody's entitled to their opinions. He's goes down as great - and i don't disagree with it - due more in part to his leadership attributes & popularity than his play on the field. I i don't even know how that can be disputed.
And his play on the field was no question above average/excellent.

And for the record, i have always liked Lewis, many times defending him and saying he would have been a great Steeler, while listening to others trash him on here. I just don't drink this "greatest ever Kool-aid". Once again, i don't disagree with Chad Brown.

To say that there are "plenty" of linebackers who "wipe the floor" with Ray Lewis sounded like the haterade to me. You can criticize his play somewhat in later years, but in terms of a career body of work I don't see how there is any room for discussion. Ray Lewis is an all-time great.

charlesk
02-09-2013, 02:00 AM
Ray Lewis continued to be a big part of the D almost to the end. His abilities did diminish greatly the past couple of years though. Most noticeable was his slowing down. He didn't get into the backfield quite as fast so there were fewer tackles for losses and he could not cover quality tight ends like he used to. Lateral movement wasn't as good either. The blocks weren't shed quite as quick as he used to either. Instead of tackles for two or three yard gains they were for four and five yards; which add up a bit quicker.
However he still was a good contributor (and not just as a leader) and a quality player. He did not hurt the defense when he played. Last year at the Texans game (I happened to be there lucky me) he made two huge plays in the 2nd half, nailing Foster for a seven yard loss and forcing TJ Yates to run out of bounds instead of scrambling for a first down (it was him vs Yates alone on the outside and Yates went out instead of challenging Lewis). Lewis played well against both the Colts and the Broncos. Not so well against the Pats (their quick dink and dunks are hard for slower and older D guys to cover) or the 49ers (Vernon Davis one of the best and Ngata going out was devastating) but he and the other guys played the goal line stand well. No doubt about it.
Lewis (and Suggs as well) probably should not have been playing these playoffs what with their arm injuries (and Suggs achilies). The only reason Lewis and Suggs played this year was because the Ravens came so close last year that they thought a Superbowl was a real possibility this year and voila. If the team was in rebuilding mode Suggs probably would have chilled for the year and Lewis would have called it quits last year. Sorry for the book report.

Steelers5895
02-09-2013, 10:47 AM
for a guy that says team team team, he sure likes it to be about him.

aa14
02-09-2013, 02:25 PM
i don't disagree w/Chad.

As a team leader : second to none, a fantastic motivator
As a media darling: absolutely top notch, great for attracting publicity to the team and to the city (and to himself - nothing wrong with that). Look at ESPN's top plays of the year for 2012 (at least the list i watched on their highlight reel 2 days ago). Lewis comes through the line and tackles a RB one-yard behind the line of scrimmage. Nothing spectacular, nothing we don't see 2 or 3 times a game from every team, every game - but because its "Lewis" it makes a top plays of the year reel. Some guys got flattened 5 yards behind the line, much more dynamic plays, and they don't even show up on these "lists".

As a linebacker : above-average to very good, no question. But there's plenty of guys who are, and who have in the past, wiped the floor with him at LB in comparison

I like Lewis but i'm really disagreeing with all this "best ever" stuff - by far.

Are you talking about his whole career or just these past three or four seasons? He is easily one of the best to play the game, regardless of position. Above average? Yeah, I hope you're talking about his recent play.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-09-2013, 09:22 PM
I agree that Lewis got a lot of padded stats by being the 3rd guy in on a tackle and getting credit. Also, the years of self promotion and media hype adds to any being overrated.

For the list of LB's better than him...yes you can add guys like Lawrence Taylor, Derrick Thomas, Jack Ham or Ted Hendricks, but they were guys that played more on the outside, but it seems narrow minded to just say the top ILB's in the game.

Butkus, Singletary, Lambert, Chuck Bednarik, Junior Seau, Ray Nitschke, Willie Lanier, Brian Urlacher, Sam Huff are all guys that you could argue are as good if not better. One could argue that Urlacher and Seau are just as good, if not better than Lewis....but they didnt dance every time they entered the stadium, nor preach to teammates every time the camera is on.

Is Ray Lewis top 10 ILB of all time? Yes.
Did Ray Lewis play to the cameras? Yes.\
Did Ray Lewis conspire to conceal a double homicide and have it swept under the rug by the NFL and media? Yes!
Is Ray Lewis overrated? Yes!
Is Ray Lewis a Hall of Fame player? Yes!

BleedPurple
02-12-2013, 01:29 AM
I agree that Lewis got a lot of padded stats by being the 3rd guy in on a tackle and getting credit. Also, the years of self promotion and media hype adds to any being overrated.

For the list of LB's better than him...yes you can add guys like Lawrence Taylor, Derrick Thomas, Jack Ham or Ted Hendricks, but they were guys that played more on the outside, but it seems narrow minded to just say the top ILB's in the game.

Butkus, Singletary, Lambert, Chuck Bednarik, Junior Seau, Ray Nitschke, Willie Lanier, Brian Urlacher, Sam Huff are all guys that you could argue are as good if not better. One could argue that Urlacher and Seau are just as good, if not better than Lewis....but they didnt dance every time they entered the stadium, nor preach to teammates every time the camera is on.

Is Ray Lewis top 10 ILB of all time? Yes.
Did Ray Lewis play to the cameras? Yes.\
Did Ray Lewis conspire to conceal a double homicide and have it swept under the rug by the NFL and media? Yes!
Is Ray Lewis overrated? Yes!
Is Ray Lewis a Hall of Fame player? Yes!

Question: How do you overrate a top 10 all time MLB? Because once you are in that convo it is a subjective choice.

Ricco Suavez
02-12-2013, 06:01 PM
Do I like Ray Lewis? Answer hell to the no. Do I think his stats have been padded some? Yes to the WTH. Is Ray Lewis one of the top five LBers of all time? I have to say yes. Along with L. Taylor, Butkus, Singletary, Lambert, Nitschke, and others are all-time greats and Ray deserves to be mentioned with them. Never liked saying one player is or was the "best ever". Had several arguments about Tiger Woods with some young golfers who never seen Jack in his prime, while I never saw Ben Hogan in his or Bobby Jones. Different eras produce different legends.

harrison'samonster
02-12-2013, 06:03 PM
Do I like Ray Lewis? Answer hell to the no. Do I think his stats have been padded some? Yes to the WTH. Is Ray Lewis one of the top five LBers of all time? I have to say yes. Along with L. Taylor, Butkus, Singletary, Lambert, Nitschke, and others are all-time greats and Ray deserves to be mentioned with them. Never liked saying one player is or was the "best ever". Had several arguments about Tiger Woods with some young golfers who never seen Jack in his prime, while I never saw Ben Hogan in his or Bobby Jones. Different eras produce different legends.

very well said.