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View Full Version : Bettis NOT a Hall of Famer- Here's Why


Steelers5895
02-02-2013, 10:31 PM
he didnt make it in a year with no running backs. he will have a decent wait before he gets in, if he gets in,

what i am saying is he played 13 seasons and wound up with 13000 yards. 1000 yards a year is not a big number anymore with the 16 game schedule.

I consider Bettis a stat compiler not a dominant back and not a Hall of Famer.

Here are the reasons:

1- no rushing titles
2- only time he led the league in anything was in carries, once in 1997
3- only scored over 10 tds twice
4- Only an All Pro 3 times in 13 years- only for Pro Football Weekly
5- Lead back in no Super Bowl Teams
6- Last 4 seasons under 1000 yards
7- One dimensional back
8- 3 100 yard games in 15 career playoff games to include Super Bowl
9- 3.4 yards a carry in playoff games
10- Career 3.9 yards per carry in his career
11- only averages 4.0 a carry or more 4 times in 13 seasons

I like Bettis and he was a great Steeler and an NFL character but not a Hall of Famer.

Bayz101
02-03-2013, 06:51 AM
Jerome Bettis is the #6 rusher of All-time, and you need look no further than that. Hall of famer. He'll be in next.

steelfury02
02-03-2013, 07:06 AM
The selection committee got up there and spoke out about a pecking order and purposefully not launching guys ahead of the que. Sapp gets in and Charles Haley and Tim Brown have to wait yet again. The selection committee has a tough job, but, they are starting to act like the NCAA/BCS.

Carter deserved to get in finally - but, when you look back when Jerry Rice was inducted, he was of course first ballot and Carter, Brown, and Reed got shut out and have been waiting ever since.

Sapp is not what I consider a first-ballot player. When I think first-ballot I think of THE top 1-3 best to ever play the position or revolutionized the way it was played, and possibly piled up championships

If Warren Sapp isn't on TV, he is waiting at least another year, and I think a lot longer.

I understand why Bettis would wait. I think it has a lot more to do with a ton of Steelers already being in than where he falls in all time rankings. Selection committee people come right out and say there are enough Steelers in the HOF. Bears and Packers are actually ahead of them on that list.

TRH
02-03-2013, 07:39 AM
there's so many guys coming up for induction, that i honestly don't think Bettis will be elected next year or after that either,

jrompola
02-03-2013, 07:40 AM
I like Bettis and he was a great Steeler and an NFL character but not a Hall of Famer.

If you truly believe Bettis is not a hall of famer that's ridiculous. I can understand trying to rationalize why he did not make it, but he eventually will. You post he played a long time and compiled stats due to that. That is 1 of the aspects of HOFers. Would you rather he played 5 years and his career ended due to injury, but he averaged 1350 yards per season? I don't get it!!

teegre
02-03-2013, 10:11 AM
Name recognition:
When you say a player's name, there is that instant "recognition."
For example, when one hears the name Jerry Rice, the words "best ever" pop into one's head. When you ask anyone, even the casual fan, they ALL know who "The Bus" is... and they remember a bruiser of a RB.

NO QB:
Bettis had NO QB to take the pressure off of him. He had 3.9 yards against eight (& nine) man fronts.

Ask Urlacher:
Bettis trucking Urlacher is iconic. Significant plays like that are revered & remembered... and, as a Steelers fan, that is a top-ten all-time play in Steelers history (and this is a team with many historical moments). If you disagree, look outside of the pressbox at Heinz Field (the box where Al Michaels sits)... and you will see a four foot by six foot photo of that play.

Blacksburg Zach
02-03-2013, 10:31 AM
If you truly believe Bettis is not a hall of famer that's ridiculous. I can understand trying to rationalize why he did not make it, but he eventually will. You post he played a long time and compiled stats due to that. That is 1 of the aspects of HOFers. Would you rather he played 5 years and his career ended due to injury, but he averaged 1350 yards per season? I don't get it!!

It worked for Gale Sayers. Just saying.

SteelersCanada
02-03-2013, 11:07 AM
I get what you're saying, but you're not recognizing that 13 000 yards is significant and to do it in 13 years shows an element of consistency that few have been able to match over the years. Now, I'll admit, I'm the first guy to be critical of Bettis and am very critical of the people who say we need another Running Back like him, but the dude just ran forward and got yardage for a team that lacked any other offensive weapon than himself for years. He was, and still is, the best North - South RB in NFL history.

You can't throw away what equates to 1000 yard seasons for 13 straight because again, that kind of consistency then and now is rare to find. He was a special player when we needed him and as Teegre mentioned, the name recognition of 'the Bus' is etched in all football players' heads, not just Steelers fans. He'll find his way into the hall in 2014.

OX1947
02-03-2013, 12:18 PM
If you have to ask, he ain't.

harrison'samonster
02-03-2013, 12:26 PM
this game isn't played on paper. You can't just look at stats, you have to see the way Bettis played. Plus, his stats are pretty impressive. Averaging 1000 yards a season for 13 years is pretty tough; the average RB lasts 2 years.

Fire Arians
02-03-2013, 01:17 PM
cool story bro

Twentyvalve
02-03-2013, 01:48 PM
What he said.

I get what you're saying, but you're not recognizing that 13 000 yards is significant and to do it in 13 years shows an element of consistency that few have been able to match over the years. Now, I'll admit, I'm the first guy to be critical of Bettis and am very critical of the people who say we need another Running Back like him, but the dude just ran forward and got yardage for a team that lacked any other offensive weapon than himself for years. He was, and still is, the best North - South RB in NFL history.

You can't throw away what equates to 1000 yard seasons for 13 straight because again, that kind of consistency then and now is rare to find. He was a special player when we needed him and as Teegre mentioned, the name recognition of 'the Bus' is etched in all football players' heads, not just Steelers fans. He'll find his way into the hall in 2014.

harrison'samonster
02-03-2013, 02:06 PM
You can't wait 7 years after the guy stepped onto a field and look at stats to determine if Bettis should get in to the Hall. Spend half an hour (that's how long they spent talking about him the other day when they voted). Read what players like Porter and FWP have to say about playing with him and read about his character on the team. Watch some highlights of him playing and remember what it was like when he was on the team.

Reducing him to a stat compiler is very disrespectful to a guy who had to crawl up and down his steps the day after a game because he gave so much to it.

lloydwoodson
02-03-2013, 02:39 PM
There are 29 running backs in the HOF and Bettis ran for more yards than all but 4 of them. Bettis will definitely get in at some point. Again... some people seem to cheer for other teams because they certainly don't feel like fans of this one.

Steelers5895
02-03-2013, 02:44 PM
I disagree totally. he lost his starting position to players like Duce Staley, Lawrence Phillips, Amoz Zereou and Wllie Parker.

He was more of a hall of famer before he hung around for the last 4 seasons of his career.

He has a lot of rushing yards but is that a proponent of greatness or playing a long time.

Curtis Martin did it in 11 seasons.

You are equating 1000 yards a year as a big deal, it isnt anymore.

We all like Bettis, he is VERY recognizable BUT he is not immortal

What special thing has he done?

Not the best brusing back of all time...see Earl Campbell or John Riggins.

Many players played under 10 years and compiled better stats per season...see sayers, brown and Campbell.

Steelers5895
02-03-2013, 02:45 PM
There are 29 running backs in the HOF and Bettis ran for more yards than all but 4 of them. Bettis will definitely get in at some point. Again... some people seem to cheer for other teams because they certainly don't feel like fans of this one.

i am as big a steeler fan you will find but i dont look at all our teams and players as the best. I look at it objectively.

doesnt make me a less of a fan

Neil-Still-Rules-14
02-03-2013, 03:16 PM
I honestly think he's a near-lock to get in next year.

harrison'samonster
02-03-2013, 03:17 PM
I honestly think he's a near-lock to get in next year.

yeah, he definitely had a HOF career, it's just a question of when he's going to get in

Steelers5895
02-03-2013, 03:25 PM
what may help him is the way the new league is with new Rbs and splitting carries, etc there arent many future HOF running backs.

LT, AP are locks

guys like shawn alexander, Portis, Priest Holmes, etc arent HOF worthy.

That is a plus BUT the fact no other RB was up this year and he didnt get in is VERY alarming.

Steelers5895
02-03-2013, 03:26 PM
yeah, he definitely had a HOF career, it's just a question of when he's going to get in

in what way did he have a HOF career? Because we like him and want to believe that?

he wasnt the best big back ever, his stats other than his compiled yards, what makes him immortal?

harrison'samonster
02-03-2013, 03:28 PM
in what way did he have a HOF career?

because he's going to be in the HOF

kent
02-03-2013, 03:31 PM
When looking at yards per carry you have to take into account that he always got the ball in short yardage and goal line especially later in his career.

harrison'samonster
02-03-2013, 03:33 PM
When looking at yards per carry you have to take into account that he always got the ball in short yardage and goal line especially later in his career.

and what he did with the ball in short yardage is going to help get him into the HOF!

kent
02-03-2013, 03:37 PM
and what he did with the ball in short yardage is going to help get him into the HOF!

I agree, he was a bruiser and wore down opponent's defenses. The little things like extending drives and controlling the clock are overlooked.

Steelers5895
02-03-2013, 03:37 PM
really? how many TDs does he have? again, only got over 10 TDS 3 times? no one cares or keeps track of how many 3rd and 1's he got.

now, on the biggest stage, the super bowl vs the seahawks he couldnt get in on short yardage.

he is not an immortal back.

solid? yes, fun? yes hard running? yes

immortal? nope

teegre
02-03-2013, 03:39 PM
As I said earlier, if you say "Bettis" to ANY person who's ever watched football, and every single one of them knows "The Bus."

Iconic.

Oh, and if you ask, almost all of them would describe him as a HOFer. The stats argument is akin to people saying that Craig Biggio had better stats than Joe Morgan. Morgan is a HOFer; Biggio had great stats.

Better yet, Kei$ha has sold more records than Kurt Cobain did. One has great sales, while the other changed music forever. Make sense?

[Changing the game is also exactly why Hines Ward is absolutely a HOFer.]

kent
02-03-2013, 03:40 PM
really? how many TDs does he have? again, only got over 10 TDS 3 times? no one cares or keeps track of how many 3rd and 1's he got.

now, on the biggest stage, the super bowl vs the seahawks he couldnt get in on short yardage.

he is not an immortal back.

solid? yes, fun? yes hard running? yes

immortal? nope

Yes you're right converting 3rd down does nothing to benefit his team......

PhantomJB93
02-03-2013, 03:55 PM
If Chris Carter is a HOF WR, Bettis is a HOF RB.

harrison'samonster
02-03-2013, 04:03 PM
I agree, he was a bruiser and wore down opponent's defenses. The little things like extending drives and controlling the clock are overlooked.

Yeah he was the best big back of all time. ask people who played against him (or even people who practiced against him) what it was like tackling him. DB's moved out of his way to avoid tackling him.

Joey Porter said something about tackling him during practice is what made him so physical on the football field during games. He made the whole team great, something one would expect of a HOF career.

kent
02-03-2013, 04:12 PM
Let's compare Bettis to some hall of famers. He has the same ypc as John Riggins and only .1 less than Curtis Martin. He has more rushing touchdowns than Martin, Thurman Thomas, Eric Dorsett, Earl Campbell, Larry Czonka, as well as others. Bettis and Franco have the same amount of touchdowns. He has more yards than all the before mentioned except for Martin. Sure he's not first ballot worthy but he will get in eventually.

lloydwoodson
02-03-2013, 04:16 PM
Steelers5895 is going to be really upset when Bettis gets into the HOF but it will happen eventually. Also, 5895 you should start an internet campaign to get Franco Harris removed from the HOF since he has fewer yards and the same tds as Bettis in the same number of years. Clearly he is not immortal.

harrison'samonster
02-03-2013, 04:20 PM
Steelers5895 if you were really an objective fan like you say, it would have made more sense for you to start this thread weeks ago and make your argument then.

It's more troll like behavior to wait until we find out he didn't make it this year, then come on here bashing the guy we love.

Steelers5895
02-03-2013, 04:26 PM
Yeah he was the best big back of all time. ask people who played against him (or even people who practiced against him) what it was like tackling him. DB's moved out of his way to avoid tackling him.

Joey Porter said something about tackling him during practice is what made him so physical on the football field during games. He made the whole team great, something one would expect of a HOF career.

better than Earl Campbell? you ever see him play?

Steelers5895
02-03-2013, 04:27 PM
Steelers5895 if you were really an objective fan like you say, it would have made more sense for you to start this thread weeks ago and make your argument then.

It's more troll like behavior to wait until we find out he didn't make it this year, then come on here bashing the guy we love.

wasnt worth a thread til I read how shocked everyone was he didnt get it. so, i looked at his career and saw a great one but not an immortal one and the hall of fame is for immortals.

Steelers5895
02-03-2013, 04:28 PM
Steelers5895 is going to be really upset when Bettis gets into the HOF but it will happen eventually. Also, 5895 you should start an internet campaign to get Franco Harris removed from the HOF since he has fewer yards and the same tds as Bettis in the same number of years. Clearly he is not immortal.

childish

how about a stat to prove me wrong? i posted 11 of them so i backed my claim.

grow up

Steelers5895
02-03-2013, 04:29 PM
Yes you're right converting 3rd down does nothing to benefit his team......

what was his conversion %? if that mattered in any equation the NFL would keep that stat.

since he wasnt a breakaway back you can look at TDs, in 13 ywears he averages just over 6. is that immortal? those were probably all under 5 yards.

Bayz101
02-03-2013, 04:34 PM
OP. You're talking about this is as if CURRENT NFL styles should influence decisions made for players who started their careers nearly 20 years ago. They shouldn't.

The game has changed a lot since Bettis played for us, but honestly, it isn't fair to keep him out based on the fact that 1,000 yards isn't "special" anymore (which is bullshit in my opinion, anyway.).

When Bettis played, what he did as a runningback was special. He's the 6TH greatest RB of all-time, and there's not a snowball's chance in hell he doesn't make the HOF.

kent
02-03-2013, 04:35 PM
childish

how about a stat to prove me wrong? i posted 11 of them so i backed my claim.

grow up

I posted quite a few.

teegre
02-03-2013, 04:40 PM
better than Earl Campbell? you ever see him play?

I'll agree with you on ONE point: Earl Campbell is the toughest RB to EVER play. He intimidated Mean Joe... and NO ONE intimidated Mean Joe.

[Intimidated might not be the right word... but, y'all get the point: Campbell was a monster.]

steeltheone
02-03-2013, 04:48 PM
better than Earl Campbell? you ever see him play?

Earl Campbell was a beast. In the short term he was better than Bettis. The HOF is long term.

harrison'samonster
02-03-2013, 04:48 PM
wasnt worth a thread til I read how shocked everyone was he didnt get it. so, i looked at his career and saw a great one but not an immortal one and the hall of fame is for immortals.

Immortals like Warren Sapp?

kent
02-03-2013, 05:04 PM
what was his conversion %? if that mattered in any equation the NFL would keep that stat.

since he wasnt a breakaway back you can look at TDs, in 13 ywears he averages just over 6. is that immortal? those were probably all under 5 yards.

You mean his touchdowns that are more than 13 current hall of fame running backs? There, that's a stat to prove you wrong.

Steelers5895
02-03-2013, 05:13 PM
again, he has better stats than some hall of famers because he played longer. and it wasnt a healthy longer and it wasnt longer as a starter. again, why i say he was a stat compiler. i think until he held on too long, he probably was more of a hall of famer. the last 4 seasons hurt him big time.

and i dont want to hear he was a champion, he went along for the ride on that one.

how many of those guys you say he was better thanlost their starting jobs to scrubs like zereou and staley?

Steelers5895
02-03-2013, 05:16 PM
OP. You're talking about this is as if CURRENT NFL styles should influence decisions made for players who started their careers nearly 20 years ago. They shouldn't.

The game has changed a lot since Bettis played for us, but honestly, it isn't fair to keep him out based on the fact that 1,000 yards isn't "special" anymore (which is bullshit in my opinion, anyway.).

When Bettis played, what he did as a runningback was special. He's the 6TH greatest RB of all-time, and there's not a snowball's chance in hell he doesn't make the HOF.

6th greatest running back of all time? so he is better, based on his rushing yards than jim brown? Gale Sayers? Earl Campbell?

he has the 6th most yards.

i actually think Terrell Davis was a way better back than bettis. if he played 2 more years he would be in with about 5000 less yards.

harrison'samonster
02-03-2013, 05:20 PM
so you're saying he's not HOF caliber because his stats aren't good enough.

And his stats are better than other HOF's because he played for so long, making him not HOF caliber.

BKAnthem
02-03-2013, 05:28 PM
Sapp is not what I consider a first-ballot player. When I think first-ballot I think of THE top 1-3 best to ever play the position or revolutionized the way it was played, and possibly piled up championships

.

Huh? Dude revolutionized the 3 technique DL position, and could play any position on the Line...Plus he was Dominant in his TB years..not just good DOMINANT! You game planned for Sapp.

Steelers5895
02-03-2013, 06:17 PM
so you're saying he's not HOF caliber because his stats aren't good enough.

And his stats are better than other HOF's because he played for so long, making him not HOF caliber.

The only stat he has is total rushing yards. That was compiled by playing so long not from having great year after great year

kan_t
02-03-2013, 06:35 PM
Do people think that Steven Jackson is going to be a HOFer? I wonder.

harrison'samonster
02-03-2013, 07:14 PM
in Baseball is Hank Aaron worthy of the HOF?

kan_t
02-03-2013, 07:30 PM
in Baseball is Hank Aaron worthy of the HOF?
Hank Aaron won 1 MVP Award, 4 HR titles, 4 RBI titles, 2 Batting titles. In NFL you're talking about someone like Emmitt Smith in comparison. Bettis is more like Eddie Murray.

That's being said, I think Bettis is a HOFer. But I wonder how people view about Steven Jackson. He's going to have a career similar to Bettis and it's fun to see how many people think that he's a future HOFer here.

jrompola
02-03-2013, 07:35 PM
I posted quite a few.

He'll ignore yours. This guys a tool.

Steelers5895
02-03-2013, 08:01 PM
He'll ignore yours. This guys a tool.

I love how no one can have a debate without name calling. Tool? Why cause I dare have my unique opinion?

What were his points? He ran hard? Hahaha. In that case Christian okoye is a hall of famed

jrompola
02-03-2013, 08:46 PM
I love how no one can have a debate without name calling. Tool? Why cause I dare have my unique opinion?

What were his points? He ran hard? Hahaha. In that case Christian okoye is a hall of famed

I wouldn't call your opinion unique. Go back and read what he posted

harrison'samonster
02-03-2013, 08:56 PM
Hank Aaron won 1 MVP Award, 4 HR titles, 4 RBI titles, 2 Batting titles. In NFL you're talking about someone like Emmitt Smith in comparison. Bettis is more like Eddie Murray.

That's being said, I think Bettis is a HOFer. But I wonder how people view about Steven Jackson. He's going to have a career similar to Bettis and it's fun to see how many people think that he's a future HOFer here.

Eddie Murray's in the Baseball HOF and he's one of my favorites!

I think Jackson would be a good player to build a team around, but he might have trouble making into the Hall because he's never been on a winning team. I think he should make it though.

pitt0wns
02-04-2013, 02:17 AM
Bettis sucked, I never liked him

Gnutella
02-04-2013, 04:12 AM
Yeah, here are all the QBs who have started at least one game during Jerome Bettis's tenure in the NFL, ranked by the number of starts:

76 - Kordell Stewart
32 - Tommy Maddox
25 - Ben Roethlisberger
23 - Chris Miller
20 - Mike Tomczak
9 - Jim Everett
7 - T.J. Rubley
6 - Chris Chandler
5 - Kent Graham
1 - Jim Miller

Jim Everett and Ben Roethlisberger are the only QBs Bettis ever played with who had more than one good season in the NFL. Furthermore, he only benefited from Everett for part of one season, and Roethlisberger for his last two.

Dino 6 Rings
02-04-2013, 06:55 AM
6th all time. SB champ, 13 years, Great nick name, The Bus, last of the 'big backs' and went to Notre Dame. He will get into the HOF and when he does, I'll find this post, and bring it back to laugh about how silly it was to suggest he wouldn't get in.

steelfury02
02-04-2013, 07:26 AM
the fact that he made it to the next to last cut says the committee takes his career seriously - he will get in, just a matter of time

need to go back and watch some highlight reels. Anyone remember the days where you'd sit on the sofa and it was 3rd and short, 4th and short. Bettis lines up, everyone in the world knows Bettis is getting it. Defense is going right for him and every single Steeler fan could say with almost 100% certainty: "Oh yea, Jerome's got this" and not break a sweat. He really spoiled us in moving the chains. He was a special, special player. Only Steelers fans could appreciate his gritty style.

The Duce Staley argument is pretty much void - don't you remember him as Duce "Sweatpants" Staley. Staley had a huge hand in the emergence of Willie Parker. Staley - 3 years, 16 games with the Steelers. Hardly a usurper. Same with Amos - Zereoué rushed for 1,698 yards and seven touchdowns in his 4 season tenure. These guys were stop gap until Willie emerged. After that - we haven't had a dominant running game in 5+ seasons. Even when Mendy had 1100-1200 yards - it was in spurts.

We need a run game in the worst way. I'd take Willie Parker in the flat, and Jerome Bettis up the middle all day long.

maddog78
02-04-2013, 07:28 AM
Again... some people seem to cheer for other teams because they certainly don't feel like fans of this one.

Again, are you ten years old? You don't have to be a pom-pom waving, drooling homer to be a fan of a team.

It's called "objectivity".

maddog78
02-04-2013, 07:33 AM
Immortals like Warren Sapp?

If Curtis Martin and John Riggins are in, the Bus should be.

I don't know that any of the three are worthy, though.

Terminator
02-04-2013, 07:56 AM
Again, are you ten years old? You don't have to be a pom-pom waving, drooling homer to be a fan of a team.

It's called "objectivity".



More people on this forum need to read this statement.

Steelers5895
02-04-2013, 08:46 AM
the fact that he made it to the next to last cut says the committee takes his career seriously - he will get in, just a matter of time

need to go back and watch some highlight reels. Anyone remember the days where you'd sit on the sofa and it was 3rd and short, 4th and short. Bettis lines up, everyone in the world knows Bettis is getting it. Defense is going right for him and every single Steeler fan could say with almost 100% certainty: "Oh yea, Jerome's got this" and not break a sweat. He really spoiled us in moving the chains. He was a special, special player. Only Steelers fans could appreciate his gritty style.

The Duce Staley argument is pretty much void - don't you remember him as Duce "Sweatpants" Staley. Staley had a huge hand in the emergence of Willie Parker. Staley - 3 years, 16 games with the Steelers. Hardly a usurper. Same with Amos - Zereoué rushed for 1,698 yards and seven touchdowns in his 4 season tenure. These guys were stop gap until Willie emerged. After that - we haven't had a dominant running game in 5+ seasons. Even when Mendy had 1100-1200 yards - it was in spurts.

We need a run game in the worst way. I'd take Willie Parker in the flat, and Jerome Bettis up the middle all day long.

again, you guys are getting too hung up on the 3rd and 1 runs. Shawn Alexander would break those for 40 yard tds. The Bus got the yard only. In that case Leroy Hoard is a hall fo Famer. No one was better than him getting a yard.

Remeber him?

" you need a yard I'll get you 3...You need 5 yards...I'll get you 3"

Classic

harrison'samonster
02-04-2013, 08:50 AM
I think there's room for arguing stats, but in the end it comes down to how they played. And Bettis played his game for 13 seasons, which you want to say somehow makes him less of HOF worthy candidate.

Overall I just find your argument that he doesn't belong in the HOF as unacceptable.

Steelers5895
02-04-2013, 09:12 AM
he was on the path, his last 4 years he just kinda hung around and compiled stats. what impact he have his last 4 years?

harrison'samonster
02-04-2013, 09:18 AM
I respect that you have your own opinion of Bettis. I just don't find any of your arguments against him or your defining him as a "stat compiler" as acceptable reasons to say he isn't HOF worthy.

lloydwoodson
02-04-2013, 09:27 AM
Do people think that Steven Jackson is going to be a HOFer? I wonder.

If the Rams had stayed with Warner instead of going with Bulger then I think Jackson would have been a HOFer. 8 seasons in a row with 1000 yards is really impressive. Jackson has had a great career for a bad team and that won't get you into the hall.

Bettis will be a HOFer because he had a great career for a superbowl winning team. Bettis is a lock to get in at some point there is no possible way he does not get in... and that is looking at it objectively.

VaDave
02-04-2013, 10:00 AM
For whatever it's worth, it is called the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Statisical Significance. Entry is not totaly governed by the numbers.

As much as I would like to see Jerome Bettis with a bust in Canton, IMO, he's a little lacking in the "Fame" quotient. Grant you, cool nicknames like "THE Bus",helps to get entry, but it still a subjective gauntlet you have to traverse to get there.

Steelers5895
02-04-2013, 10:28 AM
Too many our just looking at where he ranks wioth total yards but he has no other significant "stat" or " thing" that tells me he is immortal.

he didnt revolutionize the position. many before him like Campbell or Riggins were brusing backs.

he doesnt have a signature play (ala franco, ala Riggins in the Super Bowl, etc) , in fact his signature play is th fumble in the playoffs vs the Colts. Running over Urlacher is not a signature play

he never led the league in anything of significance

he was a back up or banged up for the last 4 years of his career

His one super bowl trip he was insignifcant

Cool nicknames dont count.

harrison'samonster
02-04-2013, 10:47 AM
Too many our just looking at where he ranks wioth total yards but he has no other significant "stat" or " thing" that tells me he is immortal.

he didnt revolutionize the position. many before him like Campbell or Riggins were brusing backs.

he doesnt have a signature play (ala franco, ala Riggins in the Super Bowl, etc) , in fact his signature play is th fumble in the playoffs vs the Colts. Running over Urlacher is not a signature play

he never led the league in anything of significance

he was a back up or banged up for the last 4 years of his career

His one super bowl trip he was insignifcant

Cool nicknames dont count.

nice summary of your position, but it doesn't change a thing. Why do you have to be so disrespectful to Bettis by claiming his signature play is the fumble against the Colts? That's pretty poor.

OX1947
02-04-2013, 10:51 AM
Bettis' last year was insignificant? So, the Steelers played like gang busters because they were playing for Big Ben? 2005 team played some of the most inspired ball I have ever seen, all in the name of getting The Bus home. By the way, when did insignificant mean scoring 12 TDs between regular season and playoffs? I'd say he was pretty significant considering he was in everyone's heart on that championship drive.

fansince'76
02-04-2013, 10:53 AM
The precedent has already been set - if Riggins is worthy of enshrinement, Bettis is more than worthy of it.

Steelers5895
02-04-2013, 10:53 AM
nice summary of your position, but it doesn't change a thing. Why do you have to be so disrespectful to Bettis by claiming his signature play is the fumble against the Colts? That's pretty poor.

what was his signature play then? its not being disrespectful just cant think of what makes him stand above his peers?

he will get in even though he, IMO, is not worthy.

his numbers will dwarf the current backs when they come up to eligibility because of the RBBC philosophy.

I just think of all years, this was the one, he had no other worthy back. In fact that could be why there was a 30 minute discussion about him.

we will agree to disagree. no point in going round and round. appreciated the debate.

harrison'samonster
02-04-2013, 10:54 AM
Bettis' last year was insignificant? So, the Steelers played like gang busters because they were playing for Big Ben? 2005 team played some of the most inspired ball I have ever seen, all in the name of getting The Bus home. By the way, when did insignificant mean scoring 12 TDs between regular season and playoffs? I'd say he was pretty significant considering he was in everyone's heart on that championship drive.

I agree completely with what you're saying. Very well said. He was a big part of why we went 15-1 the year before as well.

Steelers5895
02-04-2013, 10:55 AM
The precedence has already been set - if Riggins is worthy of enshrinement, Bettis is more than worthy of it.

Riggins carried his team in the super bowl. Bettis was carried in his.

harrison'samonster
02-04-2013, 10:55 AM
what was his signature play then? its not being disrespectful just cant think of what makes him stand above his peers?

he will get in even though he, IMO, is not worthy.

his numbers will dwarf the current backs when they come up to eligibility because of the RBBC philosophy.

I just think of all years, this was the one, he had no other worthy back. In fact that could be why there was a 30 minute discussion about him.

we will agree to disagree. no point in going round and round. appreciated the debate.

:drink:
I respect that you have your own opinion about Bettis

fansince'76
02-04-2013, 10:58 AM
Riggins carried his team in the super bowl. Bettis was carried in his.

In a season that was cut in half by a strike. And he got completely stuffed and was rendered a non-factor by the Raiders in the SB the following year. And it's not Bettis' fault that he lost out on two potential SB trips because his QB sucked. 1st and goal at the Broncos 5 in the '97 AFCCG, Bettis running wild, and what does Cowher do? He puts it in Stewart's hands who promptly throws an interception into triple coverage in the endzone.

Steelers5895
02-04-2013, 10:59 AM
Bettis' last year was insignificant? So, the Steelers played like gang busters because they were playing for Big Ben? 2005 team played some of the most inspired ball I have ever seen, all in the name of getting The Bus home. By the way, when did insignificant mean scoring 12 TDs between regular season and playoffs? I'd say he was pretty significant considering he was in everyone's heart on that championship drive.

how does that enter in the hall of fame equation? he was inspirational?

That goes to what I am saying. Just becasue he was beloved and a great teammate and the fans love him doesnt make him an immortal player worthy of the hall of fame.

when people say HOF running backs, how many think Bettis? In fact I think Harris above him and he had 4k less yards.

We think brown, emmit, sayers, marcus allen, sanders on and on and on.

Steelers5895
02-04-2013, 11:01 AM
In a season that was cut in half by a strike. And he got completely stuffed and was rendered a non-factor by the Raiders in the SB the following year.

throwing team that year. they were the highest scoring team of all time in 1983 from throwing. remember the smurfs? That stood until 1998 and the Vikings.

tanda10506
02-04-2013, 11:17 AM
Jerome Bettis is the #6 rusher of All-time, and you need look no further than that. Hall of famer. He'll be in next.

This ^ pretty much ends the argument.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-04-2013, 11:21 AM
what was his signature play then? its not being disrespectful just cant think of what makes him stand above his peers?

he will get in even though he, IMO, is not worthy.

his numbers will dwarf the current backs when they come up to eligibility because of the RBBC philosophy.

I just think of all years, this was the one, he had no other worthy back. In fact that could be why there was a 30 minute discussion about him.

we will agree to disagree. no point in going round and round. appreciated the debate.

I think his signature play was running over Urlacher in his final season to start that incredible run to the Super Bowl XL title.

He never won a rushing title. He went to very few pro bowls that I know of. He was always a durable and reliable performer that put up total numbers without ever being considered one of the great RB's in his era.

I think it will take a while for him to get in, kind of like Art Monk. I can see your point and one could say the Hall is reserved for Greatness......not really good. :coffee:

steeltheone
02-04-2013, 01:51 PM
In a season that was cut in half by a strike. And he got completely stuffed and was rendered a non-factor by the Raiders in the SB the following year. And it's not Bettis' fault that he lost out on two potential SB trips because his QB sucked. 1st and goal at the Broncos 5 in the '97 AFCCG, Bettis running wild, and what does Cowher do? He puts it in Stewart's hands who promptly throws an interception into triple coverage in the endzone.

I was at that game....Bettis could not be stopped. Gailey screwed up with not keeping it on the ground.

lloydwoodson
02-04-2013, 02:14 PM
I think it is going to be harder and harder for Steelers to get into the HOF and Probowl. I feel like Roethlisberger and Timmons should have both gotten Probowl nods and instead of people sharing that opinion on this forum there were posts dedicated to trashing Mike Pouncey as not being worthy of Probowl recognition.

Pittsburgh is a small market town. Athletes who play there will get less recognition than athletes who play in larger markets like New York, Chicago or Los Angeles. If the fans don't get behind their teams and generate pressure to get these guys some recognition Bettis won't be the only one who doesn't get into the HOF.

Every argument made against Bettis could potentially be made against Ben and Hines. Ben does have his signature play in Superbowl 43 but I don't think anyone could say he revolutionized the game (Fran Tarkenton was the first scrambling quarterback and Steve Young comes to mind as another), or that he was the best at his position when he played. People are usually 50/50 on whether Ben is a top 5 quarterback right now and to me that doesn't say "immortal."

Hines is known as an overachiever. Hines had a great career without many of the assets of other great receivers like speed or size. Despite becoming the leading Steelers receiver of all time (Bettis would have been the Steelers leading rusher if he hadn't played 3 seasons for the Rams) Hines never was the best at his position and only made 4 Probowls to Bettis' 6.

If Steelers fans don't think their players are worthy of recognition then I don't see why anyone else should. The run of Steelers players making the HOF ends now. Feel free to criticize the current Steelers- none of them are getting into the HOF the bunch of bums because if you don't want them in the HOF/Probowl no one will.

Steelers5895
02-04-2013, 03:11 PM
I think it is going to be harder and harder for Steelers to get into the HOF and Probowl. I feel like Roethlisberger and Timmons should have both gotten Probowl nods and instead of people sharing that opinion on this forum there were posts dedicated to trashing Mike Pouncey as not being worthy of Probowl recognition.

Pittsburgh is a small market town. Athletes who play there will get less recognition than athletes who play in larger markets like New York, Chicago or Los Angeles. If the fans don't get behind their teams and generate pressure to get these guys some recognition Bettis won't be the only one who doesn't get into the HOF.

Every argument made against Bettis could potentially be made against Ben and Hines. Ben does have his signature play in Superbowl 43 but I don't think anyone could say he revolutionized the game (Fran Tarkenton was the first scrambling quarterback and Steve Young comes to mind as another), or that he was the best at his position when he played. People are usually 50/50 on whether Ben is a top 5 quarterback right now and to me that doesn't say "immortal."

Hines is known as an overachiever. Hines had a great career without many of the assets of other great receivers like speed or size. Despite becoming the leading Steelers receiver of all time (Bettis would have been the Steelers leading rusher if he hadn't played 3 seasons for the Rams) Hines never was the best at his position and only made 4 Probowls to Bettis' 6.

If Steelers fans don't think their players are worthy of recognition then I don't see why anyone else should. The run of Steelers players making the HOF ends now. Feel free to criticize the current Steelers- none of them are getting into the HOF the bunch of bums because if you don't want them in the HOF/Probowl no one will.

Ward is a hall of famer but he will have an impossible time getting in. here is why he is a hall of famer.

1- best blocking wide receiver of all time
2- a rule change was put in place because of him

This is what I mean about signatire play/plays, etc- not that one block but the way he played made a rule change

3- got 1000 catches on a team that mostly ran the ball
4- 2 Time Super Bowl Champ
5- Super Bowl MVP

lloydwoodson
02-04-2013, 03:37 PM
Ward is a hall of famer but he will have an impossible time getting in. here is why he is a hall of famer.

1- best blocking wide receiver of all time
2- a rule change was put in place because of him

This is what I mean about signatire play/plays, etc- not that one block but the way he played made a rule change

3- got 1000 catches on a team that mostly ran the ball
4- 2 Time Super Bowl Champ
5- Super Bowl MVP

Wide receivers don't go into the HOF for blocking. There are 5 receivers with more catches that aren't in the HOF yet... what makes you think Hines is better or more deserving than them?

1- receivers don't go into the HOF for blocking centers do
2- Bettis had a rule put in place too- coin toss is now called before and not during the flip
3- got 13, 000 yards for teams that mostly ran the ball because they had an awesome running back
4- 1 time Superbowl champ- in his hometown Detroit- teammates declared they won it for him
5- Deion Branch, Santonio Holmes, Larry Brown, Desmond Howard should all go into the HOF too huh?

Bettis had a better career than Hines did. 6th leading rusher vs 8th leading receiver and Hines played longer. Bettis had more Probowl appearances and was a top 5 running back of his day behind only Emmitt, Barry and TD. Sorry Hines just doesn't say "immortal" to me.

dez09231
02-04-2013, 06:10 PM
Bettis was in the top 10 for voting this year. He'll be in within the next half decade.

lloydwoodson
02-04-2013, 06:20 PM
Bettis was in the top 10 for voting this year. He'll be in within the next half decade.

I agree. There is no way Bettis does not get in. Hines and Ben will get in too but it will take them a long time. Only people that would disagree are fairweather or Ravens' fans.

Bayz101
02-04-2013, 06:55 PM
I agree. There is no way Bettis does not get in. Hines and Ben will get in too but it will take them a long time. Only people that would disagree are fairweather or Ravens' fans.

At this point, I'd have to agree. Although another Super Bowl appearance for Ben would get him in sooner, and a win would possibly make him an immediate HOF selection. Thoughts?

harrison'samonster
02-04-2013, 07:02 PM
Another SB victory for Ben would put him in 1st round in my opinion. Ward should get in, I think even faster than Bettis with his catching abilities, blocking, 2 SB wins and 1 SB MVP.

kan_t
02-04-2013, 07:37 PM
At this point, I'd have to agree. Although another Super Bowl appearance for Ben would get him in sooner, and a win would possibly make him an immediate HOF selection. Thoughts?
Another SB win will definitely make him a first ballot HOFer.

In regard to his HOF chance, at this stage he just needs to be Bettis - keeps piling up the stats. :chuckle:

harrison'samonster
02-04-2013, 07:46 PM
Another SB win will definitely make him a first ballot HOFer.

In regard to his HOF chance, at this stage he just needs to be Bettis - keeps piling up the stats. :chuckle:

:mad: you mean compiling :mad:

:chuckle:

kan_t
02-04-2013, 08:20 PM
The top 12 of the 14 rushing yard leaders are in the HOF. The two who haven't got in are Tomlinson and Bettis.

The top 10 of the 13 rushing TD leaders are in the HOF. The three who haven't got in are Tomlinson, Alexander and Bettis.

The top 10 of the 13 rushing attempt leaders are in the HOF. The three who haven't got in are Tomlinson, Jones and Bettis.

Sometime people forget that you need to be great to compile all those numbers. Yes Bettis didn't have peak like Sanders, Smith, Tomlinson, etc. But that's why he doesn't get inducted in his first few tries. It doesn't mean that he's not a HOFer.

teegre
02-04-2013, 11:28 PM
what was his signature play then?

Uh... trucking Urlacher.

Steelers5895
02-05-2013, 12:59 PM
Uh... trucking Urlacher.

yeah that should get him in the HOF for sure. Great point. Forgot about that 7 yard running play where a LB got run over by a RB. That only happens 200 - 300 times a season.

Steelers5895
02-05-2013, 01:02 PM
The top 12 of the 14 rushing yard leaders are in the HOF. The two who haven't got in are Tomlinson and Bettis.

The top 10 of the 13 rushing TD leaders are in the HOF. The three who haven't got in are Tomlinson, Alexander and Bettis.

The top 10 of the 13 rushing attempt leaders are in the HOF. The three who haven't got in are Tomlinson, Jones and Bettis.

Sometime people forget that you need to be great to compile all those numbers. Yes Bettis didn't have peak like Sanders, Smith, Tomlinson, etc. But that's why he doesn't get inducted in his first few tries. It doesn't mean that he's not a HOFer.

Alexander did his in 9 seasons
LT did his in 11
Jones is not worthy of a discussion

again, stat compiling

lloydwoodson
02-05-2013, 03:12 PM
Bettis deserves to get in more than any other running back except Terrell Davis. LT is not eligible but he will get in. (LT only has 20 more rushing yards than Bettis and is likely going to retire).

You are wrong. The many people who say Bettis is a HOF are right. Bettis is famous. Everyone knows the Bus. He was one of the greatest power backs of all time. Bettis and George are the last of the great power backs. Larry Johnson and Brandon Jacobs had very brief success but the last great power backs are gone. The game has changed to a degree and teams aren't looking for power backs as much as they were.

teegre
02-05-2013, 04:05 PM
yeah that should get him in the HOF for sure. Great point. Forgot about that 7 yard running play where a LB got run over by a RB. That only happens 200 - 300 times a season.

Point? (What point?)

You asked about his signature play, and I answered your question.

Regardless, if you don't know why and/or how significant that play was... well... then, you must not have watched the 2005 season.

Like I stated earlier, that play is the photo posted outside of the pressbox... so, I'd say it's definitely his signature moment... as well as the signature moment of that season.

harrison'samonster
02-05-2013, 06:05 PM
Point? (What point?)

You asked about his signature play, and I answered your question.

Regardless, if you don't know why and/or how significant that play was... well... then, you must not have watched the 2005 season.

Like I stated earlier, that play is the photo posted outside of the pressbox... so, I'd say it's definitely his signature moment... as well as the signature moment of that season.

not only was that a great play, but Porter has said that from that moment on Bettis kept everybody focused on winning the SB.

teegre
02-05-2013, 06:24 PM
not only was that a great play, but Porter has said that from that moment on Bettis kept everybody focused on winning the SB.

Exactly. It's like saying that The Catch was merely just another "catch" in the end-zone... something that happens nearly 300 times per season.

Some moments simply mean more than others.

Speaking of Porter: the team arrived at XL wearing #6 Notre Dame jerseys; Bettis led the team onto the field... by running out there by himself... pumping them & the crowd into a frenzy; and, BB gave each game ball in the play-offs to Bettis (embracing him & crying after the SuperBowl).

Without Bettis, that team would not have been nearly as focused as they were. Sometimes, a player can make his teammates great, without even stepping foot onto the field. Now... THAT is indeed noteworthy (although, not listed on any stat sheet).

aa14
02-05-2013, 08:03 PM
Letting Bettis in would be a huge mistake to the integrity and standards of the organization. He is a good guy and deserves a spot in the ring of honor but it is a good thing he isn't going to be getting in.

sluggermatt15
02-05-2013, 08:19 PM
Letting Bettis in would be a huge mistake to the integrity and standards of the organization. He is a good guy and deserves a spot in the ring of honor but it is a good thing he isn't going to be getting in.

If this is your answer about Jerome, I'd LOVE to see your opinion on Ray Lewis being deserving of the HOF....

aa14
02-05-2013, 08:22 PM
If this is your answer about Jerome, I'd LOVE to see your opinion on Ray Lewis being deserving of the HOF....

Easily one of the best players to ever play the game. He would make 1st or 2nd team all-time at his position. A laughable comparison.

sw04ca
02-05-2013, 08:42 PM
That's an interesting argument. Personally, I feel that Bettis belongs. That kind of yardage, that kind of longevity, the kind of impact runs he made, the leadership he provided. I guess I can see why some people would argue that he wouldn't go in on the first ballot, and your argument could stand for those. But for me, the Bus should be in at some point, even if he has to wait for a few years.

harrison'samonster
02-05-2013, 08:48 PM
Easily one of the best players to ever play the game. He would make 1st or 2nd team all-time at his position. A laughable comparison.

I think you missed the "stab" at Lewis in the post you are responding too.

I wouldn't put Lewis down though, he'll get in and he belongs there. I think sluggermatt was making a joke. But it leads me to as how in the world Bettis getting in would hurt the integrity and standard of the HOF. It's not the Hall of Immortals. It's the Hall of Fame. People need to get over the idea that it's only for some untouchable godlike men who could do no wrong.

Bettis belongs there and he'll get there.

RavenManiac
02-05-2013, 09:02 PM
I think Bettis gets in eventually. And I think he clearly should.

Next year though might be tough.

I see these 4 getting in (ahead of Bettis at least):

Michael Strahan
Derrick Brooks
Tony Dungy
Walter Jones

The 5th could easily be the Bus, though; he made the 2nd-to-last cut down to 10 this year. I think Charles Haley and Andre Reed also made the final 10 this year. One of them could go ahead of Bus in 2014, maybe. Aeneas Williams made the 10, but I don't see him going ahead of Bettis. Will Shields didn't make the final 10 this year, but that was a bit of a shock and might have been due to Larry Allen and Ogden crowding him out.

The thing going for Bettis, besides his steady solid performance over his career, is his personality. People like him, he is a good guy. While that technically shouldn't matter (bad guys do get in, and unlike the MLB Hall, the NFL Hall isn't supposed to care much about character), it is human nature for people to be more inclined to vote for people they genuinely like.

lloydwoodson
02-05-2013, 11:14 PM
Easily one of the best players to ever play the game. He would make 1st or 2nd team all-time at his position. A laughable comparison.

Sorry, Fanboy- Lewis isn't even a first or second team all-pro right now! Willis and Fletcher are better and so are Beason, Cushing, Timmons, Bowman etc. etc.

aa14
02-05-2013, 11:18 PM
Sorry, Fanboy- Lewis isn't even a first or second team all-pro right now! Willis and Fletcher are better and so are Beason, Cushing, Timmons, Bowman etc. etc.

I said all-time, smart guy. Lewis was holding on for dear life this last season. Pure heart.

teegre
02-05-2013, 11:23 PM
Sorry, Fanboy- Lewis isn't even a first or second team all-pro right now! Willis and Fletcher are better and so are Beason, Cushing, Timmons, Bowman etc. etc.

As much as I hate The Knife, he absolutely is a HOFer.

Is he the best right now? No... but neither was Jerry Rice in his final there seasons. (Make sense?)

lloydwoodson
02-06-2013, 04:50 AM
I said all-time, smart guy. Lewis was holding on for dear life this last season. Pure heart.

Sorry, Lewis wasn't even the best MLB of his generation. Junior Seau was better.

Butkus was the best MLB ever. I don't know who was next but it isn't Ray Lewis.

lloydwoodson
02-06-2013, 05:45 AM
As much as I hate The Knife, he absolutely is a HOFer.

Is he the best right now? No... but neither was Jerry Rice in his final there seasons. (Make sense?)

Jerry Rice made the Probowl at age 40. He had 92 catches for 1121 yards and 7 tds. If Rice was a normal person he would have retired earlier than 42.

The argument is not whether Lewis is HOF worthy but whether he is the greatest MLB of all-time. I don't think he is the best MLB of all-time though you apprently disagree by comparing Lewis to the best football player to ever play the game.

Seau played in 1 less Probowl than Lewis and he played his entire career with much less help on the defensive side of the ball. Leslie O'Neal and Rodney Harrison were the only great players Seau played with and they were not together at the same time.

Meanwhile the Ravens roster has been loaded with Probowl players and Woodson, Sanders, Ngata and Reed all belong in the HOF. Suggs, Boulware, McAllister, Sam Adams, Scott, Adalius Thomas and Michael McCrary all made the Probowl while Lewis was playing.

Make sense?

VaDave
02-06-2013, 06:58 AM
Jerry Rice made the Probowl at age 40. He had 92 catches for 1121 yards and 7 tds. If Rice was a normal person he would have retired earlier than 42.

The argument is not whether Lewis is HOF worthy but whether he is the greatest MLB of all-time. I don't think he is the best MLB of all-time though you apprently disagree by comparing Lewis to the best football player to ever play the game.

Seau played in 1 less Probowl than Lewis and he played his entire career with much less help on the defensive side of the ball. Leslie O'Neal and Rodney Harrison were the only great players Seau played with and they were not together at the same time.

Meanwhile the Ravens roster has been loaded with Probowl players and Woodson, Sanders, Ngata and Reed all belong in the HOF. Suggs, Boulware, McAllister, Sam Adams, Scott, Adalius Thomas and Michael McCrary all made the Probowl while Lewis was playing.

Make sense?

You left out Siragusa..... Adams and Siragusa were a tandem that made Lewis's early career, much like Ngata, and Cody do now, and allowed Lewis to flow to the ball.

One other point, the home town statitions ( pardon the spelling) greatlly aided Lewis's stats by giving credit for tackles and assits when Lewis flopped on players that were already down.

teegre
02-06-2013, 07:32 AM
Jerry Rice made the Probowl at age 40. He had 92 catches for 1121 yards and 7 tds. If Rice was a normal person he would have retired earlier than 42.

The argument is not whether Lewis is HOF worthy but whether he is the greatest MLB of all-time. I don't think he is the best MLB of all-time though you apprently disagree by comparing Lewis to the best football player to ever play the game.

Seau played in 1 less Probowl than Lewis and he played his entire career with much less help on the defensive side of the ball. Leslie O'Neal and Rodney Harrison were the only great players Seau played with and they were not together at the same time.

Meanwhile the Ravens roster has been loaded with Probowl players and Woodson, Sanders, Ngata and Reed all belong in the HOF. Suggs, Boulware, McAllister, Sam Adams, Scott, Adalius Thomas and Michael McCrary all made the Probowl while Lewis was playing.

Make sense?

Uh... no.

In his final three seasons, Jerry Rice had 63 (which isn't bad), 5, and 25 receptions.

Ergo, I misspoke by saying "three" (although, even those 63 receptions were not the best in the league). Let me amend my previous statement:

Is The Knife the best right now? No... but neither was Jerry Rice in his final TWO seasons.

The point is still the same: The Knife may not have been the best MLB this year, but he's still a HOFer.

I was comparing the final few seasons of Jerry Rice to the final few seasons of The Knife. Ergo, if the best player ever had subpar seasons at the end if his career, it should be expected that so would The Knife (& Hines Ward... & Franco Harris... et cetera). Make sense?

teegre
02-06-2013, 08:31 AM
lloydwoosdon,

Regarding Seau versus The Knife versus Singletary versus Butkus... eh... I don't really care. That discussion does not really interest me.

My point is that your logic for eliminating The Knife (from the aforementioned discussion) is flawed.

Using your logic, with Seau:

Seau wasn't even a first or second team all-pro in his final season! Willis and Urlacher were better and so were Zach Thomas, Bart Scott, Farrior, etc. etc.

In fact, using YOUR logic, not even Jerry Rice should be considered the best ever:

Rice wasn't even a first or second team all-pro in his final season! Marvin Harrison and Chad Johnson were better and so are Hines Ward, Derrick Mason, Torry Holt, Randy Moss, etc. etc.

SUMMATION:
The Knife was not a Pro-Bowler in his final seasons... but, neither were a LOT of players. That does not eliminate them from the discussion of "best at their position"... otherwise... well... there wouldn't be very many options.

[Interesting tangent: how many players were selected to the Pro-Bowl in their final season?]

sluggermatt15
02-06-2013, 09:24 AM
Easily one of the best players to ever play the game. He would make 1st or 2nd team all-time at his position. A laughable comparison.

Your previous post stated that Jerome Bettis represents terrible things. Do you mean as a player or a human being? Please clarify your position and we can discuss further.

I think you missed the "stab" at Lewis in the post you are responding too.

I wouldn't put Lewis down though, he'll get in and he belongs there. I think sluggermatt was making a joke. But it leads me to as how in the world Bettis getting in would hurt the integrity and standard of the HOF. It's not the Hall of Immortals. It's the Hall of Fame. People need to get over the idea that it's only for some untouchable godlike men who could do no wrong.

Bettis belongs there and he'll get there.

Yes I was being sarcastic. Ray Lewis does belong in the HOF, I don't think there is a question about that. Great player, motivator, and force.

I also believe Jerome is deserving. He is arguably one of the greatest RBs over 250 pounds who successfully ran between the tackles and showed signs of speed. It may take some time but I believe he will be elected.

lloydwoodson
02-07-2013, 04:31 AM
@ Teegre

Ray Lewis hasn't been at the top of his game since 2003. I never said Lewis doesn't belong in the HOF. What are you getting so bent out of shape for? You honestly think Lewis is the best MLB of all-time?! You are crazy.

Lawrence Taylor is to linebackers what Jerry Rice is to wide receivers. Ray Ray doesn't enter that discussion and I don't think Butkus does either.

Debo has forced 33 turnovers in the 6 seasons since he turned 29 and became a starter. Ray has forced 24 turnovers in the 9 seasons since he turned 29. Please don't pretend that Ray Lewis has maintained his dominance into his 30s because he really has not.

Ray Lewis averaged fewer than 3 forced turnovers per season for his career and he is the best MLB ever? Lewis was a tackle machine who played behind an amazing defensive line and in front of an amazing secondary.

Lewis is lucky all the tough old bastards who played before color tv broadcast Lewis' tears into homes across America didn't have their forced fumbles or sacks recorded. Imagine Butkus crying on tv :rofl:

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CGZp6xP_59o

lloydwoodson
02-07-2013, 04:43 AM
@teegre re: Jerry Rice

You are reading Rice's stats wrong. Rice had 30 receptions in his final season at age 42. 25 with Seattle and 5 with Oakland.

Rice actually averaged approx 60 receptions 800 yards and 4 tds over his final 3 seasons at ages 40, 41, and 42.

Blacksburg Zach
02-07-2013, 07:06 AM
@ Teegre

Ray Lewis hasn't been at the top of his game since 2003. I never said Lewis doesn't belong in the HOF. What are you getting so bent out of shape for? You honestly think Lewis is the best MLB of all-time?! You are crazy.

Lawrence Taylor is to linebackers what Jerry Rice is to wide receivers. Ray Ray doesn't enter that discussion and I don't think Butkus does either.

Debo has forced 33 turnovers in the 6 seasons since he turned 29 and became a starter. Ray has forced 24 turnovers in the 9 seasons since he turned 29. Please don't pretend that Ray Lewis has maintained his dominance into his 30s because he really has not.

Ray Lewis averaged fewer than 3 forced turnovers per season for his career and he is the best MLB ever? Lewis was a tackle machine who played behind an amazing defensive line and in front of an amazing secondary.

Lewis is lucky all the tough old bastards who played before color tv broadcast Lewis' tears into homes across America didn't have their forced fumbles or sacks recorded. Imagine Butkus crying on tv :rofl:


I couldn't see Butkus crying on TV, but I sure could imagine him making opposing players cry on TV.

steelerchad
02-07-2013, 07:26 AM
Name recognition:
When you say a player's name, there is that instant "recognition."
For example, when one hears the name Jerry Rice, the words "best ever" pop into one's head. When you ask anyone, even the casual fan, they ALL know who "The Bus" is... and they remember a bruiser of a RB.

NO QB:
Bettis had NO QB to take the pressure off of him. He had 3.9 yards against eight (& nine) man fronts.

Ask Urlacher:
Bettis trucking Urlacher is iconic. Significant plays like that are revered & remembered... and, as a Steelers fan, that is a top-ten all-time play in Steelers history (and this is a team with many historical moments). If you disagree, look outside of the pressbox at Heinz Field (the box where Al Michaels sits)... and you will see a four foot by six foot photo of that play.

You will also see a large framed photo of that play in my Steelers room in the basement. That was the play that sent the team on it's SB run IMO.

teegre
02-07-2013, 07:31 AM
lloydwoosdon,

I do not care who the best MLB was.

My point, again, is that YOUR RATIONALE for excluding The Knife from the discussion of "best at his position" is the fact that he did not make the Pro-Bowl in his final year.

Neither did Jerry Rice. Neither did Seau. Neither did Dick Butkus. Neither did Lawrence Taylor. Et cetera.

I DO NOT CARE WHO WAS THE BEST MLB.

Again, Jerry Rice did not make the Pro-Bowl in his final two seasons... and he's still the best player ever to play, despite your asinine logic that a player can not even be considered a candidate for the best at his position if he did not make the Pro-Bowl in his final season.

I DO NOT CARE WHO WAS THE BEST MLB.

Your logic/rationale is what I have issue with.

teegre
02-07-2013, 08:11 AM
You will also see a large framed photo of that play in my Steelers room in the basement. That was the play that sent the team on it's SB run IMO.

I've never met you, but I can already tell that you're my type of Steelers fan.

Steelers5895
02-07-2013, 08:33 AM
If Bettis signature play is running over a linebacker, you are making my point. that may be his most famous play but was insignificant for hall of fame reasons.

steelfury02
02-07-2013, 08:36 AM
If Bettis signature play is running over a linebacker, you are making my point. that may be his most famous play but was insignificant for hall of fame reasons.

What does a signature HOF-worthy RB play look like then?
Does it involve juking, spinning, diving, or a long run?

What was Franco's signature HOF play outside of the immaculate reception - which pretty much is a once in a millenium type miracle play that any of the other HOF RBs never made? What was his signature move/play when running the ball?

teegre
02-07-2013, 08:59 AM
If Bettis signature play is running over a linebacker, you are making my point. that may be his most famous play but was insignificant for hall of fame reasons.

Insignificant? That was a play-off* game.

*If the Steelers lose that game, the season was over. In the biggest moment, he scored the touchdown... which sparked an eight-game winning streak (in which, every week, they HAD to win).

What was Barry Sanders' signature play? What was LaDainian's? Please, enlighten us on what a signature play should look like.

harrison'samonster
02-07-2013, 09:10 AM
Insignificant? That was a play-off* game.

*If the Steelers lose that game, the season was over. In the biggest moment, he scored the touchdown... which sparked an eight-game winning streak (in which, every week, they HAD to win).

What was Barry Sanders' signature play? What was LaDainian's? Please, enlighten us on what a signature play should look like.

Not to mention that this is just one person's viewpoint. A player doesn't in fact NEED a signature play to get into the HOF.

Just because he doesn't want to accept this as a great play doesn't make him right.

Steelers5895
02-07-2013, 10:01 AM
Insignificant? That was a play-off* game.

*If the Steelers lose that game, the season was over. In the biggest moment, he scored the touchdown... which sparked an eight-game winning streak (in which, every week, they HAD to win).

What was Barry Sanders' signature play? What was LaDainian's? Please, enlighten us on what a signature play should look like.

Ok, here's is now I look at it.

Barry Sanders running style which was never seen before or since was his signature

LT was one of the best scoring running backs in the league, hence having the single season rushing TD at one point

Emmitt Smith had his game he played with his sperated shoulder not to mention rings and the title

Hines ward was his blocking

Terrell davis was his 2000 yard season

see where I am going? Signature play, more like signature on the NFL

See where I am going. Bettis was a power back, he didnt revolutionize anything. he is not even the BEST power back of all time. He may be in the top 5 but he is not the best at anything. Barry Word ran over line backers is he a hall of famer? Look what MJD did to Merriman as a small RB, is that really a signatire play?

To say that one running play, in the snow on a bad trackion field where Urlacher didnt hit him head on with a full head of steam is Bettis claim to fame is nuts.

his signature play was the fumble vs the Colts.

Steelers5895
02-07-2013, 10:02 AM
Not to mention that this is just one person's viewpoint. A player doesn't in fact NEED a signature play to get into the HOF.

Just because he doesn't want to accept this as a great play doesn't make him right.

so that one under 10 yeard play defined his career? sad if so.

harrison'samonster
02-07-2013, 12:16 PM
so that one under 10 yeard play defined his career? sad if so.

I never said it defines his career. You're the one who insists that there must be one single play that make's a player's career. I don't agree with you that a player needs a signature play.

I do think dismissing that play is ignoring a major moment in his career though.

steelfury02
02-07-2013, 12:20 PM
Ok, here's is now I look at it.

Barry Sanders running style which was never seen before or since was his signature

LT was one of the best scoring running backs in the league, hence having the single season rushing TD at one point

Emmitt Smith had his game he played with his sperated shoulder not to mention rings and the title

Hines ward was his blocking

Terrell davis was his 2000 yard season

see where I am going? Signature play, more like signature on the NFL

See where I am going. Bettis was a power back, he didnt revolutionize anything. he is not even the BEST power back of all time. He may be in the top 5 but he is not the best at anything. Barry Word ran over line backers is he a hall of famer? Look what MJD did to Merriman as a small RB, is that really a signatire play?

To say that one running play, in the snow on a bad trackion field where Urlacher didnt hit him head on with a full head of steam is Bettis claim to fame is nuts.

his signature play was the fumble vs the Colts.

Is Hines Ward a HOFer in your opinion and if so, why?

Steelers5895
02-07-2013, 01:44 PM
Is Hines Ward a HOFer in your opinion and if so, why?

Steelfury02, yes Hines Ward is a hall of famer.

1- best blocking WR of all time
2- revolutionized the WR position to where WR's are expected to be blockers rather than run deep to draw players away from the line. he wasnt a big wr so it made offenses realize it can be done with their wrs
3- a rule change was made based on his blocking.
4- 1000 catches
5- leading wr in many stats on a team with 2 hall of fame wrs
6- super bowl MVP
7- 2 time Super Bowl champion

keep in mind he did this on a predomitely running team with quarterbacks like Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, Charlie Batch and Tommy Maddox. he was already putting solid pro bowl seasons before Big Ben.

negatives:

1- not flashy
2- never led the league in anything

UNlike bettis, he made an impact on the sport where bettis didnt.

harrison'samonster
02-07-2013, 02:01 PM
Steelfury02, yes Hines Ward is a hall of famer.

1- best blocking WR of all time
2- revolutionized the WR position to where WR's are expected to be blockers rather than run deep to draw players away from the line. he wasnt a big wr so it made offenses realize it can be done with their wrs
3- a rule change was made based on his blocking.
4- 1000 catches
5- leading wr in many stats on a team with 2 hall of fame wrs
6- super bowl MVP
7- 2 time Super Bowl champion

keep in mind he did this on a predomitely running team with quarterbacks like Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, Charlie Batch and Tommy Maddox. he was already putting solid pro bowl seasons before Big Ben.

negatives:

1- not flashy
2- never led the league in anything

UNlike bettis, he made an impact on the sport where bettis didnt.

nice to see you're not completely insane :chuckle:

One reason he did so well early in his career was because he was working with a HOF running back.

steelfury02
02-07-2013, 02:15 PM
Steelfury02, yes Hines Ward is a hall of famer.

1- best blocking WR of all time
2- revolutionized the WR position to where WR's are expected to be blockers rather than run deep to draw players away from the line. he wasnt a big wr so it made offenses realize it can be done with their wrs
3- a rule change was made based on his blocking.
4- 1000 catches
5- leading wr in many stats on a team with 2 hall of fame wrs
6- super bowl MVP
7- 2 time Super Bowl champion

keep in mind he did this on a predomitely running team with quarterbacks like Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, Charlie Batch and Tommy Maddox. he was already putting solid pro bowl seasons before Big Ben.

negatives:

1- not flashy
2- never led the league in anything

UNlike bettis, he made an impact on the sport where bettis didnt.

ok - glad we agree - but - The Bus had another nickname - The Closer - something Bill Cowher called Bettis. When the Steelers needed to close out a 10 point lead, they simply handed the ball off, and we ate up yards and closed out games. Not too many guys could do that when defenses know its coming. He might not have been the first - but, there hasn't been anything like him since. He is the last of the big backs with that kind of impact on the outcome of a game. He had a larger impact on the outcome of a game than our QBs had.

Steelers5895
02-07-2013, 03:30 PM
nice to see you're not completely insane :chuckle:

One reason he did so well early in his career was because he was working with a HOF running back.

who zereoue? haha

hey look, im not going to go running, screaming into the woods if bettis gets in. I want him to get in, I want several "cusp" players to get in like Donnie Shell, LC Greenwood and John Kolb but that doesnt make them a hall of famer. I just dont thing bettis when i think hall of famer.