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Riddle_Of_Steel
02-04-2013, 01:56 PM
Where do these two guys stack up against each other in the regular season and postseason?

Flacco's star appears to be on the rise, while Ben's seems to be on its way down. But wil a big SB win bring Joe back down to earth? Will he be as impressive in leading his team once Ray Lewis and Ed Reed are gone (I think not)?

I think this year's disappointment will be a good kick in the butt for Ben. But while we have been bashing Joe Flacco for years, has he silently become a viable postseason passer?

Discuss.

Riddle_Of_Steel
02-04-2013, 01:58 PM
I think it is pretty obvious Ray lewis was a large part of the reason why ther Ravens went on this run. Sure, he was not catching Flacco's passes, nor was he running the ball, but, with the emminent "letdown" of winning the big game-- I think the Ravens are on their way back to earth next season.

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 01:59 PM
Yeah bullcrap how any negative thread gets shut down because no one can handle the truth. Ill get this in before they close it, right now Flacco is the man, does great in the post season, overall body of work Ben still has him beat, and I think Ben has a better chance at winning another ring than flacco. there thats all im going to say I had a big reply typed up for the last thread then it got closed.

harrison'samonster
02-04-2013, 01:59 PM
Flacco has really impressed me in this postseason. I think he's a legitimate good QB. That being said, I don't think BB is trending down. And head to head BB has out-played Flacco.

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 02:01 PM
Let me add The AFC North is probably going to be the toughest division to play in next year, I could see Pitt Ravens and Cinci all in the play offs next year. Also next season will show what we are mad of, I think we will know by about 8 weeks into the season if this steelers team is going to have a crappy next 7-10 years or if we are going to do what we do best and bounce back!

GMU Steeler
02-04-2013, 02:01 PM
I wouldn't say Ben's star is on the way down honest. He was having a terrific year until he got hurt. Anyhow, as for Flacco, yeah I think we did underrate him. You got to give the Ravens FO some credit for surrounding him with good talent too, Ray Rice is Ray Rice, a legitimate top RB. Boldin makes some awesome catches. Smith and Jones are both burners. And Pitta is a pretty good TE too. I still don't know what to make of Flacco though. He can be really amazing which he certainly was this post-season and it should be mentioned that he did outplay Tom Brady in last year's AFC championship game too but at the same time, he'll have his struggles. He's the most enigmatic QB I've seen. Anyhow, it's going to be interesting to watch the contract situation since Flacco and his camp have a lot of leverage going in coming off a Super Bowl MVP winning season.I hope they overpay him like crazy and regret it later.

Riddle_Of_Steel
02-04-2013, 02:02 PM
Flacco has really impressed me in this postseason. I think he's a legitimate good QB. That being said, I don't think BB is trending down. And head to head BB has out-played Flacco.

I can't STAND Flacco, but I have to admit-- he was one of the main reasons why they went. I still don't think he is "elite" though.

steelfury02
02-04-2013, 02:03 PM
BB 2/3 v. 1/1. Incomplete body of work to compare.

I think Ben gets 1 more and I think Flacco gets 1 more before its all said and done.

Steelers will have had the jump start on playing without leaders. This will be Harbaugh and Flaccos first time after losing some guys. That's where I'd like to think the edge will be next season.

They're riding a wave of emotion - we're coming off a bad taste in our mouths.

steelfury02
02-04-2013, 02:06 PM
I really can't stand the elite label. I think there is future HOF that are stat compilers and winners, then there are future HOF that win by any means necessary.

What makes Ben unorthodox and unique is what will punch his ticket. If he ups his game even more during his last 4-5 seasons COULD make him top 5 QB ever. I used to think Ben was going to walk away with 5 rings. Now, I'm just hoping for 1 more to solidify his legacy Any more than that would be awesome of course, but, Ben needs to evolve (dead horse I know)

Let's get Ben some reliable weapons that take the pressure off of him and the sky is the limit

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 02:10 PM
I can't STAND Flacco, but I have to admit-- he was one of the main reasons why they went. I still don't think he is "elite" though.

Flacco is not elite, just because you win a superbowl doesn't make you elite, Ben has won 2 but anyone thats not on the steelers fever forums will tell you hes not Elite.

Elite is Brady, Rogers, P. Manning and Breese. Thats it Ben, Ryan, Eli, Flacco are good- great but not elite. Watch one of the four guys week in and week out for a whole season, then watch flacco/ ben week in and week out, you'll get my drift.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-04-2013, 02:12 PM
Ravens o-line should get some credit also Joe barely got hit yesterday.

still gotta give Joe a lot credit for what he did the whole playoffs. he kinda reminds me of a Eli Manning 2.0

pete74
02-04-2013, 02:18 PM
Flacco and Ben are both really good QB's but Flacco did better this year. You can'tcompare the two because they have ccompletely differentoffenses around them

fansince'76
02-04-2013, 02:22 PM
I really can't stand the elite label.

Me neither. It's a completely overused adjective that's been beaten to death to the point of irrelevance by a bunch of fantasy football nerds.

cowherpower
02-04-2013, 02:28 PM
I can't STAND Flacco, but I have to admit-- he was one of the main reasons why they went. I still don't think he is "elite" though.

agreed. but Ben is not elite either. I would think ranked from 8-12 for both with Ben ahead for now

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-04-2013, 02:29 PM
agreed. but Ben is not elite either. I would think ranked from 8-12 for both with Ben ahead for now

8-12? lol please tell me your top 8

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 02:40 PM
Ill tell you mine

1. Tom Brady
2. Aaron Rogers
3. Peyton Manning
4. Drew Breese
5. Eli Manning
----------
heres where it gets tough
6. Kaepernick
7. Ben
8. Ryan
9. Flacco

Luck RG3 and Wilson could all make arguments, but too early to call any of them consistent.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-04-2013, 02:46 PM
Ill tell you mine

1. Tom Brady
2. Aaron Rogers
3. Peyton Manning
4. Drew Breese
5. Eli Manning
----------
heres where it gets tough
6. Kaepernick
7. Ben
8. Ryan
9. Flacco

Luck RG3 and Wilson could all make arguments, but too early to call any of them consistent.

:rofl: im glad that im the only one on this forum that does not take you serious...lol

kent
02-04-2013, 02:46 PM
Ill tell you mine

1. Tom Brady
2. Aaron Rogers
3. Peyton Manning
4. Drew Breese
5. Eli Manning
----------
heres where it gets tough
6. Kaepernick
7. Ben
8. Ryan
9. Flacco

Luck RG3 and Wilson could all make arguments, but too early to call any of them consistent.

Luck, RG3 and Wilson have all played more games than Kaepernick so I think thats a little premature to have him ranked as the 6th best QB in the league.

Now regarding Ben vs. Flacco, There is no doubt that what Flacco did this post-season was impressive. He also can say he's never missed the playoffs but at the same time he's never been a pro-bowler. That really doesnt mean anything though since most of the pro bowl selections are a joke. I would say if you look at their careers as of now Ben still has the edge but Flacco has been trending upwards the last 2 years and its hard to tell what the future will be like. I still think a healthy and focused Ben is one of the best Qbs in the league.

SteelersCanada
02-04-2013, 03:05 PM
6. Kaepernick
7. Ben

Credibility = lost. Some people overreact like this after a bad season, though, and I understand that. Let me ask you, what has Kaepernick accomplished that Roethlisberger hasn't? Oh, he hasn't accomplished anything that Ben has? That's funny.

scottcurtis
02-04-2013, 03:08 PM
Luck, RG3 and Wilson have all played more games than Kaepernick so I think thats a little premature to have him ranked as the 6th best QB in the league.

Now regarding Ben vs. Flacco, There is no doubt that what Flacco did this post-season was impressive. He also can say he's never missed the playoffs but at the same time he's never been a pro-bowler. That really doesnt mean anything though since most of the pro bowl selections are a joke. I would say if you look at their careers as of now Ben still has the edge but Flacco has been trending upwards the last 2 years and its hard to tell what the future will be like. I still think a healthy and focused Ben is one of the best Qbs in the league.

When Ben comes to camp and it looks like his "focus" in the off-season was a bag of Doritos... we will know we are in for another crappy year.

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 03:09 PM
:rofl: im glad that im the only one on this forum that does not take you serious...lol

Whats wrong with my top 8? the only argument is Kaepernick, but damn is he good. Let me see your top 9, How different can it look? Especially the top 5? seriously?

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 03:14 PM
Credibility = lost. Some people overreact like this after a bad season, though, and I understand that. Let me ask you, what has Kaepernick accomplished that Roethlisberger hasn't? Oh, he hasn't accomplished anything that Ben has? That's funny.

over 200 yards rushing in one game (a play off game) 415 yards rushing in about half a season. He's got a hell of an arm. Yeah I put him one above Ben, 98.3 passer rating shall I keep going? Yeah he hasnt got much experience but Kaepernick is fucking awesome, live with it dick.

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 03:18 PM
not to say Ben doesn't have a hell of an arm. But as of right now, as of this season Kaepernick was a better QB than ben , oh and another thing, he managed not to be injured all season. Wow am I ever sick of this forum having a bitch fit every time someone makes a somewhat negative post. All I was saying is who I think the best 8-12 Qbs in the league are, anywhere besides this steelers forums isnt going have ben in the top 5 either.

He doesn't even get mentioned anymore, denial is not a river inegypt

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-04-2013, 03:20 PM
Whats wrong with my top 8? the only argument is Kaepernick, but damn is he good. Let me see your top 9, How different can it look? Especially the top 5? seriously?

1. Rogers
2. Brady
3. Peyton
4. Brees
5. Big Ben
6. Eli Manning
7. Flacco
8. Ryan
9. Newton
10. ??? idk tough one

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 03:23 PM
1. Rogers
2. Brady
3. Peyton
4. Brees
5. Big Ben
6. Eli Manning
7. Flacco
8. Ryan
9. Newton
10. ??? idk tough one

okay so our top 9 look the same besides I have Kaepernick in there and you have Newton at number 9? why even talk shit when you basically agree about the entire top 9 besides one person. And I'd take kaepernick over newton any day of the week, wow.

Cherinko
02-04-2013, 03:27 PM
Flacco is now going to be the most overrated player in the NFL. He's an above average QB - somewhere between 10-12 out of 32. He's an acceptable starter. He's not elite and he's not worth what he's soon going to be getting from Baltimore.

kent
02-04-2013, 03:28 PM
over 200 yards rushing in one game (a play off game) 415 yards rushing in about half a season. He's got a hell of an arm. Yeah I put him one above Ben, 98.3 passer rating shall I keep going? Yeah he hasnt got much experience but Kaepernick is fucking awesome, live with it dick.

I think he took issue like we all are with you saying that a Qb that has only started 11 games is the 6th best QB in the league.

kent
02-04-2013, 03:30 PM
Flacco is now going to be the most overrated player in the NFL. He's an above average QB - somewhere between 10-12 out of 32. He's an acceptable starter. He's not elite and he's not worth what he's soon going to be getting from Baltimore.

Im happy he played so well and frankly out did himself because Baltimore is going to pay him outrageous money and will put them in the same salary cap hell we are in.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-04-2013, 03:31 PM
okay so our top 9 look the same besides I have Kaepernick in there and you have Newton at number 9? why even talk shit when you basically agree about the entire top 9 besides one person. And I'd take kaepernick over newton any day of the week, wow.

You put Kaepernick above Ben and I laughed at you cause I don't take you serious at all then you asked for my top 9 or top 5 and so I gave you my top 9....you got a problem with that?

And please tell me why you would take Kaepernick over Cam...is it because Cam don't have an o-line like Kaepernick has or the Defense he has?? I would like to see what Cam could do with that 49ers team...

desertsteel
02-04-2013, 03:32 PM
Ill tell you mine

1. Tom Brady
2. Aaron Rogers
3. Peyton Manning
4. Drew Breese
5. Eli Manning
----------
heres where it gets tough
6. Kaepernick
7. Ben
8. Ryan
9. Flacco

Luck RG3 and Wilson could all make arguments, but too early to call any of them consistent.Are you freaking serious??? Kaepernick ahead of Ben. You should be banned for making that list public.

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 03:32 PM
I think he took issue like we all are with you saying that a Qb that has only started 11 games is the 6th best QB in the league.

I can understand that part, but that's my opinion. I was talking about this season, not their careers, What did Ben do this year? played well for 9 games got crushed, then sucked for his last 5 games, and his team missed the playoffs. What did Kapernick do this year, Lead his team to the superbowl, won some games in the playoffs, I don't think they would have won with smith. Id trade Ben for Kaepernick right now if it were possible. Thats how much talent I see in him I assure you he will be a great QB for years to come.

Steelers5895
02-04-2013, 03:37 PM
Its hard to compare.

So lets try this:

Better Running back- FLACCO
Better Line- FLACCO
Better Wide Receivers- FLACCO
Better TE- BEN
Better Special Teams (field position)- FLACCO
Better Defense- PUSH

Ben needs another Hines Ward NOT another MIke Wallace. If Ben had Flacco's targets he would be putting up sick numbers.

Steelers>NFL
02-04-2013, 03:39 PM
I can understand that part, but that's my opinion. I was talking about this season, not their careers, What did Ben do this year? played well for 9 games got crushed, then sucked for his last 5 games, and his team missed the playoffs. What did Kapernick do this year, Lead his team to the superbowl, won some games in the playoffs, I don't think they would have won with smith. Id trade Ben for Kaepernick right now if it were possible. Thats how much talent I see in him I assure you he will be a great QB for years to come.

Well, Kap did play behind a GREAT offensive line, that did not miss one play this past season. If Kap played behind the Steeler's banged up line, he probably would not have played nearly as well.

lloydwoodson
02-04-2013, 03:45 PM
Top QBs by scoring offense:

1. Brady 2. P. Manning 3. Brees 4. RG III 5. Rodgers 6. E Manning 7. Ryan 8. Schaub 9. Wilson 10. Flacco

My list:

1. Brady 2. P Manning 3. Brees 4. Rodgers 5. RG III 6. Ryan 7. E Manning 8. Flacco 9. Roethlisberger 10. Wilson

cowherpower
02-04-2013, 03:45 PM
8-12? lol please tell me your top 8

If starting a franchise today and basing decision on age and upside alone, not thinking about past performance. Strictly who would I want for the next 5-7 years as franchise QB and considering QB position is evolving into a more athletic type

Luck
Kaepernick
RG3
Rodgers
Brady
Brees
Wilson
Eli (has two rings and came up bigger than Ben in SB)
Newton
Peyton (only because he is elite now but unlikely to play 5 years otherwise higher)
Ben
Flacco
Ryan
Romo
Cutler

If I had to have one for just next season:

Rodgers
Brady
Brees
Kaepernick
Peyton
Eli
Ryan
RG3
Ben

Kaepernick is a stud plain and simple. If you can't see his cannon arm, running ability, poise at such a young age and with lack of experience then you are blind. I would say that he more so than RG3 is the face of the new NFL. I say this because while skill wise they are about tied, Kaepernick is bigger and won't get injured. Kaepernick has better chance of making Pro Bowl next year than Ben imho. Doesn't mean Ben is horrible, just not elite and body is breaking down. He had his time. With hard work and more film study, maybe better blocking and a running game, all possibilities this offseason, he can vault himself back into the top 8 discussion.

Atlanta Dan
02-04-2013, 03:48 PM
Ill tell you mine

1. Tom Brady
2. Aaron Rogers
3. Peyton Manning
4. Drew Breese
5. Eli Manning
----------
heres where it gets tough
6. Kaepernick
7. Ben
8. Ryan
9. Flacco

Luck RG3 and Wilson could all make arguments, but too early to call any of them consistent.

But you call Kaepernick consistent after a half season of work and a Super Bowl where Cowher and Marino said he was too inexperienced to call plays quickly? - got it

maddog78
02-04-2013, 03:50 PM
If starting a franchise today and basing decision on age and upside alone, not thinking about past performance. Strictly who would I want for the next 5-7 years as franchise QB and considering QB position is evolving into a more athletic type

Luck
Kaepernick
RG3
Rodgers
Brady
Brees
Wilson
Eli (has two rings and came up bigger than Ben in SB)
Newton
Peyton (only because he is elite now but unlikely to play 5 years otherwise higher)
Ben
Flacco
Romo
Cutler

In 5-7 years, Brady will be 41-43, Manning 42-44, Brees 39-41.

Your list sucks.

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 03:53 PM
Are you freaking serious??? Kaepernick ahead of Ben. You should be banned for making that list public.

okay I'm talking about the 2012-2013 season who the top QBS were here is Kaepernicks stat lines

40 yards dash in 4.53 by the way

13 games played, 62.4 completion%, 1, 814 passing yards, 15td(5 were rushing) , 3 INT
2 fumbles 76.8 qbr 98.3 RAT, 415 rushing yards

not to mention all his playoff sucess, can't remember exactly but he ran for like 250 yards and passed for over 300 against the falcons thats over 500 yards of total offense in a play off game

Bens line

13 games played 63.3 completion % 3,265 passing yards, 28 td, 8 INT 5 fumbles 62.8 qbr, 97.0 rat, 92 yards rushing.
missed play offs, blew a bunch of games when he wasnt healthy at the end of the year.

not all 13 games kaepernicks games were starts which accounts for the less yards passing, otherwise I've got a damn good argument for who was better this season

courtesy of espn.com

nikstar
02-04-2013, 03:56 PM
Flacco is a good starting quarterback. I remember after his 2nd year I really felt worried because "oh crap, Baltimore actually found a half decent quarterback, first since air Mcnair"(who was questionably washed up by the time they got him). Flacco has a much better supporting cast in front of him though. When the Ravens picked up Boldin from Arizona I believed he was the best receiver in the NFL at the time. He had more yards than Fitz on that team, and was taller, more athletic/physical. I was shocked with how un-spectacular he played in the last couple of years and he really shined these playoffs. Baltimore also had a quality running back in Ray Rice, and an O-line that played outstanding in the big game against a defense that sent pressure a lot (something Ben hasn't had since his first years). Combine that with a tough defense and you can easily see why the Ravens made and won the Superbowl.

Saying all that, I can't stand the fact that Flacco won the MVP. He probably deserved it playing a stellar game, but I was really hoping Jacoby Jones was going to get it after that huge runback to start the 2nd half. I shudder to think if Baltimore somehow lucks into another Superbowl in the next decade, and wins. Flacco would probably be considered before Ben for HOF contention. That would be disgraceful seeing as everyone knows that without Ben, Steelers wouldn't make it past an AFC championship game. In my opinion Ben's 2008 Superbowl drive is the greatest drive ever played in the NFL.

I'm hoping Ruthlessberger won't take Flacco's MVP laying down and will make his own case next season.

cowherpower
02-04-2013, 03:58 PM
In 5-7 years, Brady will be 41-43, Manning 42-44, Brees 39-41.

Your list sucks.

may be, but they all have a great chance at another ring in that time. More so than Ben. Your response sucks

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 03:58 PM
if everyone wants to rank whose had the best careers I think Joe Montana and Roger Stauback and Bret Farve should be on the top ten list 2

maddog78
02-04-2013, 03:59 PM
I can understand that part, but that's my opinion. I was talking about this season, not their careers, What did Ben do this year?

What did Eli do this year to be the 5th ranked QB?

You sound like some FFL fanboy who only cares about yards.

lloydwoodson
02-04-2013, 03:59 PM
Its hard to compare.

So lets try this:

Better Running back- FLACCO
Better Line- FLACCO
Better Wide Receivers- FLACCO
Better TE- BEN
Better Special Teams (field position)- FLACCO
Better Defense- PUSH

Ben needs another Hines Ward NOT another MIke Wallace. If Ben had Flacco's targets he would be putting up sick numbers.

Steelers #1 defense and Ravens #17 defense are a push?

Steelers wide receivers are MUCH better than the Ravens. The last Ravens WR to get 1000 yards was Derrick Mason in 09.

Steelers5895
02-04-2013, 04:01 PM
Lets not get all wrapped up with kaepernick. Think Kordell Stewart. The NFl will adjust to this style of quarterback and they will not be as productive. the plus for him is he can throw too. i want to see more than 10 games. same with RG3, give me more than one year.

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 04:02 PM
What did Eli do this year to be the 5th ranked QB?

You sound like some FFL fanboy who only cares about yards.

More than Ben did.

maddog78
02-04-2013, 04:02 PM
may be, but they all have a great chance at another ring in that time. More so than Ben. Your response sucks

In seven years, Manning and Brady will have a great chance at a ring?

:rofl:

fer522
02-04-2013, 04:02 PM
Did you guys know that Rodgers (elite Qb) has won 1 playoff game in the las 2 seasons :hatsoff: so flacco had a better year big fucking deal :noidea:

Steelers5895
02-04-2013, 04:05 PM
Steelers #1 defense and Ravens #17 defense are a push?

Steelers wide receivers are MUCH better than the Ravens. The last Ravens WR to get 1000 yards was Derrick Mason in 09.

OMG will you guys get off the # 1 ranked defense. yes a push, they got sacks and turnovers and we got yards. PUSH

and yes, the Ravens WRS are much better:

Smith vs wallace- Smith is just as good a deep threat and has made some real tough catches. he is in year 2 and will be way better than wallace.

Boldin vs. Brown- Brown is more explosive BUT Boldin makes the tough catch and is a much better blocker. see te 4th and 27 play

Jones vs sanders- Jones is a big play guy, sanders is average and cant stay healthy.

just because you like our players because they are steelers doesnt make them the best ever. heck, why not say our receivers are better than the 99 rams trio.

lloydwoodson
02-04-2013, 04:06 PM
What did Eli do this year to be the 5th ranked QB?

You sound like some FFL fanboy who only cares about yards.

Umm E Manning had an off year this year. Seems to me Blaze is judging Eli off body of work and you're the one overly focused on one season.

E Manning has 2 Superbowls so only Brady has more. E Manning has had a top 10 scoring offense every year for the last 5 years. Based on those 2 facts alone there is good cause for E Manning to be ranked highly even as high as 5th.

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 04:06 PM
Don't get me wrong.. I'm sure Ben will have a great year next year and Id put him as # 4 or 5 again, this season though? no thanks, lets be realistic. I agree I may be jumping the gun with Kaepernick a little but If you watched him play this year he did an amazing job, hell he stole the starting job right out from under alex smith, must be doing something right.

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 04:10 PM
Eli did have kind of an off year but he did pass for almost 5000 yards, my top 9 was a basic idea of the top 9 Qbs in the league right now. If my life depended on it I may have had not had kaepernick in there, but my life doesn't depend on it, it was basically correct give me a fuckin break.

maddog78
02-04-2013, 04:10 PM
Umm E Manning had an off year this year. Seems to me Blaze is judging Eli off body of work and you're the one overly focused on one season.
.

Except the part where he wrote this:

"I was talking about this season, not their careers, What did Ben do this year? "

maddog78
02-04-2013, 04:11 PM
Eli did have kind of an off year but he did pass for almost 5000 yards, my top 9 was a basic idea of the top 9 Qbs in the league right now. If my life depended on it I may have had not had kaepernick in there, but my life doesn't depend on it, it was basically correct give me a fuckin break.

Yep, I was right - you're an FFL fanboy. Nice list, Ruxin.

cowherpower
02-04-2013, 04:11 PM
In seven years, Manning and Brady will have a great chance at a ring?

:rofl:

wow...dense much? :banging:

you point out there ages after 5-7 years...which would make Ben 36-38 himself...but besides that fail...good call...NOT

my point is over the next 5 to 7 years they have a better chance at winning a SB and better prospects overall....never mind, if you couldn't follow to begin with...

maddog78
02-04-2013, 04:13 PM
wow...dense much? :banging:

you point out there ages after 5-7 years...which would make Ben 36-38 himself...but besides that fail...good call...NOT

my point is over the next 5 to 7 years they have a better chance at winning a SB and better prospects overall....never mind, if you couldn't follow to begin with...

Both are declining and have 1, maybe 2 years left. Seriously, if you're making a list of QBs you could build a franchise around, you wouldn't have anyone over 30, much less 35.

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 04:14 PM
Yep, I was right - you're an FFL fanboy. Nice list, Ruxin.

you aint right about shit , ever

desertsteel
02-04-2013, 04:16 PM
okay I'm talking about the 2012-2013 season who the top QBS were here is Kaepernicks stat lines

I think that you mean HALF of the 2012 season.

40 yards dash in 4.53 by the wayBen has bigger feet. Next stat...


13 games played, 62.4 completion%, 1, 814 passing yards, 15td(5 were rushing) , 3 INT
2 fumbles 76.8 qbr 98.3 RAT, 415 rushing yards10 TD passes in 13 games is not HOF numbers.

not to mention all his playoff sucess, can't remember exactly but he ran for like 250 yards and passed for over 300 against the falcons thats over 500 yards of total offense in a play off gameALL all his playoff success??? All???

Bens line

13 games played 63.3 completion % 3,265 passing yards, 28 td, 8 INT 5 fumbles 62.8 qbr, 97.0 rat, 92 yards rushing.Ben's stats are better with a crappy OL instead of having the best OL in football like the niners. Not to mention NO running game.

missed play offs, blew a bunch of games when he wasnt healthy at the end of the year.Exactly. Let's wait and see how Kap does when he blows a wheel...


not all 13 games kaepernicks games were starts which accounts for the less yards passing, otherwise I've got a damn good argument for who was better this season

courtesy of espn.comYour only argument is that he went to the super bowl (and LOST) and that he had a few bling plays on sports center.

Sorry but the jury is still out on Kaepernick. Ben has a body of work and will be going to the HOF. And personally, that kid is a little too full of himself for me. I'm glad he got taken down a notch.

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 04:19 PM
did you watch their last 5 games? oh? didnt think so

lloydwoodson
02-04-2013, 04:21 PM
OMG will you guys get off the # 1 ranked defense. yes a push, they got sacks and turnovers and we got yards. PUSH

and yes, the Ravens WRS are much better:

Smith vs wallace- Smith is just as good a deep threat and has made some real tough catches. he is in year 2 and will be way better than wallace.

Boldin vs. Brown- Brown is more explosive BUT Boldin makes the tough catch and is a much better blocker. see te 4th and 27 play

Jones vs sanders- Jones is a big play guy, sanders is average and cant stay healthy.

just because you like our players because they are steelers doesnt make them the best ever. heck, why not say our receivers are better than the 99 rams trio.

:coffee: Let me know when Smith has more than 50 catches in a season.

Boldin has 14 tds in the last 3 seasons. Wallace has 26 in that span - almost double.

Jones is not a big play guy - he had 1 td all year but here you go running off at the mouth because he had 2 in the Superbowl. Larry Brown anyone?

I don't like our players because they are Steelers I like them because they are better. Wallace and Brown are better than Boldin and Smith and the depth isn't even close with Sanders, Cotchery and maybe Burress rounding out the receiving corps.

I'm not a homer- you're just a hater.

scottcurtis
02-04-2013, 04:24 PM
Lets not get all wrapped up with kaepernick. Think Kordell Stewart. The NFl will adjust to this style of quarterback and they will not be as productive. the plus for him is he can throw too. i want to see more than 10 games. same with RG3, give me more than one year.

Just like they adjusted to Ben.:doh:

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 04:24 PM
You think Ben is a lock for the HOF right now? what if he only plays 3 more seasons and never makes it back to the play offs?

Steelers5895
02-04-2013, 04:25 PM
:coffee: Let me know when Smith has more than 50 catches in a season.

Boldin has 14 tds in the last 3 seasons. Wallace has 26 in that span - almost double.

Jones is not a big play guy - he had 1 td all year but here you go running off at the mouth because he had 2 in the Superbowl. Larry Brown anyone?

I don't like our players because they are Steelers I like them because they are better. Wallace and Brown are better than Boldin and Smith and the depth isn't even close with Sanders, Cotchery and maybe Burress rounding out the receiving corps.

I'm not a homer- you're just a hater.

you really get hooked on stats dont you. this isnt fantasy football.

boldin makes tough over the middle catches that NONE of our wide receivers can/will do. Boldin blocks better than any of our wide receivers.

I'll take smith over Wallace every day of the week. he is big fast AND makes the tough catch.

sanders is a non factor- Jones at least was available to play 16 games

when Flacco was able to open it up and throw, his receivers stepped up. When have our receivers EVER stepped up in a big game?

you have to look at the intangibles too. get out of fantasy football mode will you.

maddog78
02-04-2013, 04:35 PM
You think Ben is a lock for the HOF right now? what if he only plays 3 more seasons and never makes it back to the play offs?

Depends on his stats. If he plays three more years and has the same stats as this year, projected to 16 games a year, he's a lock.

That will put him over 40K yards with 3 SB appearances and 2 rings.

maddog78
02-04-2013, 04:36 PM
Why do I have a feeling there were threads like this about RG III and RW at the halfway point of the season?

Flavor of the month.

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 04:39 PM
rg3 and russell wilson had great rookie seasons, u think they suck to?

maddog78
02-04-2013, 04:42 PM
rg3 and russell wilson had great rookie seasons, u think they suck to?

No, and I don't think Kaepernick sucks, I just think you probably had a Fathead of the aforementioned QBs before you had one of Colin.

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 04:43 PM
No, and I don't think Kaepernick sucks, I just think you probably had a Fathead of the aforementioned QBs before you had one of Colin.

Wrong again:flap:

desertsteel
02-04-2013, 04:43 PM
You think Ben is a lock for the HOF right now? what if he only plays 3 more seasons and never makes it back to the play offs?

3 more seasons? Yes. There is absolutely no scenario that the Steelers go 4 seasons in a row without making the playoffs.

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 04:47 PM
3 more seasons? Yes. There is absolutely no scenario that the Steelers go 4 seasons in a row without making the playoffs.

yeah it's not like its ever happened before
Ben will probably make the hall of fame but he is by no means a "lock" as in if his career ended today he'd be in, I don't think so.

kent
02-04-2013, 04:52 PM
Im all for debating objectively but some of the people on this forum go the extra mile to try and make the Steelers look bad. I get it, you're butthurt because they had a disappointing season. Me on the other hand have faith that they will return to form rather than bad mouth them at every oppurtunity.

desertsteel
02-04-2013, 04:53 PM
yeah it's not like its ever happened before
Ben will probably make the hall of fame but he is by no means a "lock" as in if his career ended today he'd be in, I don't think so.

Not if he retired today. Kaepernick on the other hand, would be a lock if he hung em up today. He has already trademarked his acceptance speech.

BlaZeQuietly
02-04-2013, 04:58 PM
Not if he retired today. Kaepernick on the other hand, would be a lock if he hung em up today. He has already trademarked his acceptance speech.

Right

Riddle_Of_Steel
02-04-2013, 05:01 PM
Kaepernick over Big Ben? Now that's just silly....go stand in the corner BLAZE.

RavensNumberOne
02-04-2013, 05:33 PM
Didn't mean to make a new thread, but here was my original post:

All this talk about Flacco not being elite, well guess what, Big Ben is not an elite QB, either. But does that matter? Jim McMahon and Trent Dilfer certainly can't be considered elite QB's, but did that matter the day after each won the Super Bowl? No. Dan Marino was an elite QB who never won the Super Bowl, but does that fact tarnish his otherwise brilliant career? No. Maybe you all have forgotten that QB's don't win Super Bowls--teams do.

And it doesn't matter if you can't beat us in the playoffs. At least WE made the playoffs, which is more than can be said for your Steelers this year.

ZoneBlitzer
02-04-2013, 05:39 PM
Big Ben will never win another SB again. He's turned into Brett Favre like I predicted he would. He is careless with the ball and it cost the team a 7th SB. That was it for this corp. Time to retool and rebuild.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-04-2013, 05:40 PM
Didn't mean to make a new thread, but here was my original post:

All this talk about Flacco not being elite, well guess what, Big Ben is not an elite QB, either. But does that matter? Jim McMahon and Trent Dilfer certainly can't be considered elite QB's, but did that matter the day after each won the Super Bowl? No. Dan Marino was an elite QB who never won the Super Bowl, but does that fact tarnish his otherwise brilliant career? No. Maybe you all have forgotten that QB's don't win Super Bowls--teams do.

And it doesn't matter if you can't beat us in the playoffs. At least WE made the playoffs, which is more than can be said for your Steelers this year.

An Elite QB does not get beat by a 37-38 year old back up...

You act like Joe won the super bowl all by himself you should credit the o-line cause Joe was protected the whole playoffs just think if Ben was protected like Joe was.

harrison'samonster
02-04-2013, 05:51 PM
elite elite elite...that's all folks!

just like the pig on cartoons.

MasterOfPuppets
02-04-2013, 06:13 PM
joe is elite !!! now give him that 100+ million dollar contract and welcome to salary cap hell ravens !!! :applaudit:

pete74
02-04-2013, 06:27 PM
I give Joe all the credit in the world. He won a Superbowl while throwing for 3 touchdowns and 0 interceptions. He won the MVP award. He is now tied for the most touchdowns thrown (Montana and Warner) during the playoffs. Anyone can say he lost one game to the Steelers but he won enough games during the regular season then played perfect in the playoffs. Hopefully Ben does as well next year and we get another Superbowl for the AFC north

austinfrench76
02-04-2013, 06:29 PM
If Ray Lewis had not drank deer piss, the Ravens aren't in that game. The murderer wins again. Sorry, he was merely an accomplice and the only the guy that was ever found guilty of anything in that case! But hey, he's into Jesus now so it's all good! What a joke. Go Steelers '14 SB in NY! I hope it snows.

pete74
02-04-2013, 07:04 PM
If Ray Lewis had not drank deer piss, the Ravens aren't in that game. The murderer wins again. Sorry, he was merely an accomplice and the only the guy that was ever found guilty of anything in that case! But hey, he's into Jesus now so it's all good! What a joke. Go Steelers '14 SB in NY! I hope it snows.

That deer antler spray is useless. It's supposed to have IGF-1 in it but it's impossible. It can't be made into a spray.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
02-04-2013, 07:06 PM
If Ray Lewis had not drank deer piss, the Ravens aren't in that game. The murderer wins again. Sorry, he was merely an accomplice and the only the guy that was ever found guilty of anything in that case! But hey, he's into Jesus now so it's all good! What a joke. Go Steelers '14 SB in NY! I hope it snows.

Deer Antler:chuckle:

dez09231
02-04-2013, 07:08 PM
"Elite" is such a silly term.

It's media created because it gets attention. The bottom line is, is your guy good enough to make enough plays to win a ring? There are probably 9 or 10 of those guys active right now.

As for Ben vs. Flacco.... Ben owns him head-to-head, but the run that Flacco went on in the playoffs is undeniable. Both teams love their guy, and both guys have the ability to carry their team when they need them to. What else really matters?

Penn
02-04-2013, 07:14 PM
yawn

more post superbowl overreaction

steelersforever58
02-04-2013, 08:10 PM
While I like to think that I can be objective about this discussion, maybe I am just kidding myself. But here goes.

Personally, I wasn't overly impressed by flacco last night. The first td to boldin was a very nice throw. The jones td was just god awful coverage and all he had to do was get the ball in the vicinity. The other big throw to boldin when he was scrambling was pretty much a jump ball that boldin won. I don't think he is a 2nd rate qb by any means, but for me, I wil take Roethlisberger everyday over flacco. As far as his winning the MVP goes, how does jones not win it?

kan_t
02-04-2013, 08:32 PM
Didn't mean to make a new thread, but here was my original post:

All this talk about Flacco not being elite, well guess what, Big Ben is not an elite QB, either. But does that matter? Jim McMahon and Trent Dilfer certainly can't be considered elite QB's, but did that matter the day after each won the Super Bowl? No. Dan Marino was an elite QB who never won the Super Bowl, but does that fact tarnish his otherwise brilliant career? No. Maybe you all have forgotten that QB's don't win Super Bowls--teams do.

And it doesn't matter if you can't beat us in the playoffs. At least WE made the playoffs, which is more than can be said for your Steelers this year.

Please give Joe Flacco $25M a year. Please.

harrison'samonster
02-04-2013, 08:36 PM
Please give Joe Flacco $25M a year. Please.

a SB MVP deserves at least $26M a year. He's elite. :chuckle:

objectivefan
02-04-2013, 09:51 PM
Flacco is not elite, just because you win a superbowl doesn't make you elite, :banging:.

Elite is Brady, Rogers, P. Manning and Breese. Thats it Ben, Ryan, Eli, Flacco are good- great but not elite. Watch one of the four guys week in and week out for a whole season, then watch flacco/ ben week in and week out, you'll get my drift.

Really? Ben is certainly elite. When he is healthy there is not a QB that I would take over him.

Steeler-in-West
02-05-2013, 01:03 AM
Flacco has had much better pass protection in the second half of the season than Ben. Also, Flacco can still get rattled by a good hit or two (see Steelers vs Ravens, game 2). Ben doesn't get rattled. We had two rookies on the O-line for our stretch run....and a less than stellar running game also. Give Ben decent protection and a good RB and we'll be back.

bornaSteelersfan
02-05-2013, 03:29 AM
Kaepernick? I will admit that he has great potential, but once teams are actually able to see more tape of him, they will figure him out. Green Bay was completely blindsided by his ability. I think he is good and clearly Jim's "secret weapon" that almost payed off. I think he proved that almost every time that he changed the play in the Super Bowl, what he changed it to didn't really work. He completely failed 4 times in a row at the end and could not even keep track of the clock. Good thing his coach bailed him out on that one. He has excellent "up side", but better than Ben?!! He'll need a few more successful seasons to prove that.

jb500ex
02-05-2013, 06:39 AM
Depends on his stats. If he plays three more years and has the same stats as this year, projected to 16 games a year, he's a lock.

That will put him over 40K yards with 3 SB appearances and 2 rings.

Wrong with the numbers qbs put up now he won't make it especially with the lack of scoring he's done and the fact he missed the playoffs with the number 1 defense. He started his career off well on his way and he's gotten worse as he gets older that would hurt him unless he gets back to winning. His playoff numbers are no longer good so you can't even use the he's good in the playoffs any longer. Mark Sanchez has numbers far better the Ben in the playoffs

kan_t
02-05-2013, 07:21 AM
Wrong with the numbers qbs put up now he won't make it especially with the lack of scoring he's done and the fact he missed the playoffs with the number 1 defense. He started his career off well on his way and he's gotten worse as he gets older that would hurt him unless he gets back to winning. His playoff numbers are no longer good so you can't even use the he's good in the playoffs any longer. Mark Sanchez has numbers far better the Ben in the playoffs
Actually passing numbers are not that important when the voters try to decide which QB is a HOFer. SB wins, MVP and QB win record count much more. For example, QB with 100 wins are all HOFers or future HOFers. Ben right now sits at 87 wins.

JeromeBetties63
02-05-2013, 10:30 AM
Wake up people...seriously...wake up. Ben is a winner. I don't care if you like "intangibles" or not. There are guys who win big games (Big Ben) and guys who don't (Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, etc.). There are a lot of "stat" guys who can't match Ben for intangibles. No, he doesn't look pretty doing it...WHO CARES?

This guy won as a rookie...he has led the team to 3 Super Bowls in ten years. No, he didn't play great in the Super Bowls, but he was the key to the AZ victory and without him, we don't get there for the other two. Anyone remember the long drought? Why? No QB, thats why. No Big Ben. Seriously....WAKE THE HECK UP.

He has won and won and won with a MASH Unit for an O line...with no running game some seasons...with receivers who dropped the ball...Yes the D has been great at times but for the last 2 seasons they just never gave Ben short fields....that stuff adds up.

Ben was having a really good year until he got hurt. Honestly, I kinda blame the rest of the team for letting down in the Charger game and that sent us on a spiral out of the playoffs....but think about it. The rest of the team, the guys who play with him, thought, "Ben's back, we got this." Why? Because they know he is freaking good...thats why.

Finally, my thoughts on the latter part of this season. Honestly, Ben got married and became a dad. It appeared to me that he didn't have as much fire down the stretch. I think it is because he realized that there are more important things in life than self, fame and football. And guess what, while that sucks for football fans, he is right. Sure he gets paid big bucks to play the game so he should give it his all. You know what, I think next season could be his best. He will be used to Haley, he will be settled in as a dad, the spotlight will be on Flacco and the Ravens. He has something to prove again....Mark this post...barring injury, Ben will have great season in 2013 and lead the Steelers back to the playoffs with legit shot at the title.

steelfury02
02-05-2013, 10:35 AM
Alright peeps.

What is more important to you as a Steelers fan? That they get recognition from other fan bases or that we have an enormously long list of players that contributed to the most SB victories of any franchise?

Was it you Lloyd talking about us saying our own legends don't deserve to be in the HOF, so why should anyone else think so? I think you have a point.

First things first though. Take a deep breath - quit worrying about what other fan bases and talking heads say, and enjoy them for what they are first - Pittsburgh Steelers with winning histories. The rest will take care of itself.

I've only read recently out of everyone what Ben could do with the line Flacco has enjoyed these playoffs. I've ragged on Ben and his need to up his game - but, remember where we were sitting at 5-3 after the Giants game? Now - imagine if we could at least keep that type of O-line going and they could all be healthy and gel in time for a run? It is possible - keep the faith. Ben is a HOF-QB. For every person saying the candidate doesn't have stats like X, there are people out there saying well, Marino doesn't have a ring but he is in. Ben will and deserves to get in.

steelfury02
02-05-2013, 10:37 AM
Wake up people...seriously...wake up. Ben is a winner. I don't care if you like "intangibles" or not. There are guys who win big games (Big Ben) and guys who don't (Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, etc.). There are a lot of "stat" guys who can't match Ben for intangibles. No, he doesn't look pretty doing it...WHO CARES?

This guy won as a rookie...he has led the team to 3 Super Bowls in ten years. No, he didn't play great in the Super Bowls, but he was the key to the AZ victory and without him, we don't get there for the other two. Anyone remember the long drought? Why? No QB, thats why. No Big Ben. Seriously....WAKE THE HECK UP.

He has won and won and won with a MASH Unit for an O line...with no running game some seasons...with receivers who dropped the ball...Yes the D has been great at times but for the last 2 seasons they just never gave Ben short fields....that stuff adds up.

Ben was having a really good year until he got hurt. Honestly, I kinda blame the rest of the team for letting down in the Charger game and that sent us on a spiral out of the playoffs....but think about it. The rest of the team, the guys who play with him, thought, "Ben's back, we got this." Why? Because they know he is freaking good...thats why.

Finally, my thoughts on the latter part of this season. Honestly, Ben got married and became a dad. It appeared to me that he didn't have as much fire down the stretch. I think it is because he realized that there are more important things in life than self, fame and football. And guess what, while that sucks for football fans, he is right. Sure he gets paid big bucks to play the game so he should give it his all. You know what, I think next season could be his best. He will be used to Haley, he will be settled in as a dad, the spotlight will be on Flacco and the Ravens. He has something to prove again....Mark this post...barring injury, Ben will have great season in 2013 and lead the Steelers back to the playoffs with legit shot at the title.

I have it marked. Your last few sentences especially. There are plenty of things that go into the failures and successes of a season - you mention plenty of on and off field elements, all equally important. Ben has more motivation than he ever has - probably the most since the 06 season where he gutted it out. He has plenty to play for. Let's relax :drink:

Gnutella
02-05-2013, 12:58 PM
One thing all you assholes who don't like Roethlisberger forget is that the surrounding talent on Joe Flacco's offense got better as he got better, while the surrounding talent on Roethlisberger's offense got worse as he got better. That does make a difference, especially in the playoffs.

By the way, Mark Sanchez also has a better playoff passer rating than Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Eli Manning. Only an imbecile would care.

steelfury02
02-05-2013, 01:01 PM
One thing all you assholes who don't like Roethlisberger forget is that the surrounding talent on Joe Flacco's offense got better as he got better, while the surrounding talent on Roethlisberger's offense got worse as he got better.

By the way, Mark Sanchez also has better playoff numbers than Matt Ryan, Tony Romo and Philip Rivers. I guess he's better than them too, huh?

Mrs Smith, Gnutella called me an asshole.

sw04ca
02-05-2013, 03:39 PM
I disagree with anybody who thinks that Roethlisberger is on the way down and out. He's still a top flight QB that plays at a high level. The Steelers need to focus on not getting him killed. Ben is tough as nails, but teams are exploiting the Steelers line and blowing him up. He's getting older, and he's not going to have the same ability to move around and ability to take hits that he used to. Look at the teams that made the Superbowl. Flacco barely got touched the whole playoffs against some fearsome pass rushes, and the Niners probably have the best blockers in the league.

As for Flacco, he's obviously the man right now. With his line and his playmakers, he had the best postseason by a QB that I've ever seen. If he pulls that level of play into the regular season, then he might just be the best guy at his position in the league. His playoff stats would extrapolate to over 4500 yards and 44 touchdowns and no picks, which would be the best performance by a QB ever. Now, I don't think that he can play at that insane level for a whole season, but I do think that Joe and Ben are roughly comparable at this point in their careers. There were plays that Joe made where I thought he looked a lot like Roethlisberger, but he's not taking the hits and has never missed a start.

Let's see what happens next year, after the Ravens are butchered by free agency. As close as they are to the cap and with as many guys that deserve to get paid, this is going to be a brutal offseason for them.

austinfrench76
02-05-2013, 04:17 PM
There is no comparison. Flacco is a turd. Wouldn't trade him for BB, so that's my assessment.

GoFor7
02-05-2013, 04:27 PM
Lets compare the two QBs without actually comparing them, so to speak...

Flacco plays for a team that embraces modern day football. The Ravens don't cling to some outdated tradition that says they have to own time of possession or have balance on offense. They try to score and don't worry about how long it takes. For better or for worse, they unleash Flacco and let him go down field often - and it paid off this year. Flacco has receivers that make big plays. They'll go up and get a ball that isn't thrown with Brady-like precision. They aren't afraid to take a hit to make a play. The Ravens offense goes for 7 points, not 3. The Ravens defense isn't a stat defense. They take chances, they try to force turnovers so their offense can score more points. And if those chances don't pay off, they stiffen up in the red zone. The Ravens' special teams also helped them out quite a bit.

Ben plays for a team that wants to relive the past. The Steelers think it's more important to let tradition dictate strategy rather than talent. Time of possession is more important than scoring. Ben is reduced to a glorified game manager, just flipping the ball for a 3 yard gain. They go for 3 points, not 7. Of course, when that doesn't work, only then do they let Ben go because he has to bail the team out from its own stupidity. The Steelers defense is a stat defense. Good with yards, but doesn't make plays. Not enough sacks and even fewer turnovers. The few times a turnover happens, the offense doesn't go for the jugular because then they wouldn't possess the ball as long. The Steelers special teams is a complete joke and may have been the biggest negative on the team.

You can quote stats all you want, but if you actually watch the game instead of the box scores then there's no way in hell you can say the Steelers turned Ben loose.

It's not just the Ravens winning the super bowl that should be a slap in the face to the Steelers and their philosophies, but it should be the entire 2013 NFL playoffs. For better or worse those teams unleashed their best players and tried to score points, while the Steelers just try to grind out low scoring games because that's how it was done in granddaddy's day.

Blackout
02-05-2013, 04:40 PM
I think Jim Caldwell did pretty well in the playoffs.

GMU Steeler
02-05-2013, 05:13 PM
I think Jim Caldwell did pretty well in the playoffs.

Flacco does well again next year and Caldwell may be looking at another HC gig. Really seems that Flacco started turning it on when they made Caldwell the OC and fired Cameron.

jacobo
02-05-2013, 06:02 PM
Ben's a far better qb, Ravens are a better team with a MUCH better overall offense.

zcoop
02-05-2013, 06:50 PM
Lets compare the two QBs without actually comparing them, so to speak...

Flacco plays for a team that embraces modern day football. The Ravens don't cling to some outdated tradition that says they have to own time of possession or have balance on offense. They try to score and don't worry about how long it takes. For better or for worse, they unleash Flacco and let him go down field often - and it paid off this year. Flacco has receivers that make big plays. They'll go up and get a ball that isn't thrown with Brady-like precision. They aren't afraid to take a hit to make a play. The Ravens offense goes for 7 points, not 3. The Ravens defense isn't a stat defense. They take chances, they try to force turnovers so their offense can score more points. And if those chances don't pay off, they stiffen up in the red zone. The Ravens' special teams also helped them out quite a bit.

Ben plays for a team that wants to relive the past. The Steelers think it's more important to let tradition dictate strategy rather than talent. Time of possession is more important than scoring. Ben is reduced to a glorified game manager, just flipping the ball for a 3 yard gain. They go for 3 points, not 7. Of course, when that doesn't work, only then do they let Ben go because he has to bail the team out from its own stupidity. The Steelers defense is a stat defense. Good with yards, but doesn't make plays. Not enough sacks and even fewer turnovers. The few times a turnover happens, the offense doesn't go for the jugular because then they wouldn't possess the ball as long. The Steelers special teams is a complete joke and may have been the biggest negative on the team.

You can quote stats all you want, but if you actually watch the game instead of the box scores then there's no way in hell you can say the Steelers turned Ben loose.

It's not just the Ravens winning the super bowl that should be a slap in the face to the Steelers and their philosophies, but it should be the entire 2013 NFL playoffs. For better or worse those teams unleashed their best players and tried to score points, while the Steelers just try to grind out low scoring games because that's how it was done in granddaddy's day.

Good post my man. You're right about the offense this year. We went to dink and dunk but expected to keep up with teams who were not affraid to sling it down the field. All of the teams that made it past the first round of the playoffs, threw the damn ball down the field. Trying to manage and control in today's game will not go very far.

aa14
02-05-2013, 07:11 PM
Ben probably only has two or three seasons left before he has to retire. Way too much wear and tear. He was once near the top of the league but I think it changes drastically next season. At this point due to age it is very easy to take Flacco. He will probbly win another one or two superbowls and I just don't see it happening with good old Ben. :banging:

NSMaster56
02-05-2013, 08:13 PM
Where do these two guys stack up against each other in the regular season and postseason?

Flacco's star appears to be on the rise, while Ben's seems to be on its way down. But wil a big SB win bring Joe back down to earth? Will he be as impressive in leading his team once Ray Lewis and Ed Reed are gone (I think not)?

I think this year's disappointment will be a good kick in the butt for Ben. But while we have been bashing Joe Flacco for years, has he silently become a viable postseason passer?

Discuss.

Did I miss something?

Has Balitmore beaten 'Burgh in the playoffs with Flacco?

Three of Flaccos' five W's vs. the Steelers have been against a QB other than Big Ben.

Flacco vs. BB : BB vs. Brady

Gnutella
02-05-2013, 08:22 PM
Lets compare the two QBs without actually comparing them, so to speak...

The comparison has nothing to do with team philosophy, and everything to do with the quality of weapons each QB has been given.

aa14
02-05-2013, 08:23 PM
Did I miss something?

Has Balitmore beaten 'Burgh in the playoffs with Flacco?

Three of Flaccos' five W's vs. the Steelers have been against a QB other than Big Ben.

Flacco vs. BB : BB vs. Brady

The only thing that would have made the Ravens's ascent to the top sweeter would have been to dispose of the Steelers in the WC instead of Indy. Not the Ravens fault the Steelers couldn't make it to the dance though.

Gnutella
02-05-2013, 08:28 PM
The only thing that would have made the Ravens's ascent to the top sweeter would have been to dispose of the Steelers in the WC instead of Indy. Not the Ravens fault the Steelers couldn't make it to the dance though.

Considering the Ravens lost at home to a team QBed by Charlie Batch, it's no foregone conclusion that they would have beaten a team QBed by Roethlisberger, especially since the game would have been played eight weeks after his rib/shoulder injury. (It takes six weeks (http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ycn-8015264) on average for such an injury to heal.)

sw04ca
02-05-2013, 08:47 PM
Did I miss something?
Has Balitmore beaten 'Burgh in the playoffs with Flacco?

Three of Flaccos' five W's vs. the Steelers have been against a QB other than Big Ben.

Flacco vs. BB : BB vs. Brady
I don't really buy that line of thinking. That's like saying that Garrard is better than Ben because he has the advantage over Ben in their head-to-head playoff record. And beat him in Pittsburgh. Flacco had a legendary postseason, and now it's time for the Steelers to step up and show they've still got it.

sluggermatt15
02-05-2013, 08:55 PM
I don't really buy that line of thinking. That's like saying that Garrard is better than Ben because he has the advantage over Ben in their head-to-head playoff record. And beat him in Pittsburgh. Flacco had a legendary postseason, and now it's time for the Steelers to step up and show they've still got it.

Just because Joe Flacco wins a Super Bowl does NOT mean he is on the SAME LEVEL as Roethlisberger. Flacco has a long way to go. His numbers aren't as great, he doesn't make the same amount of great plays Roethlisberger does, he isn't as consistent, and Ben has played in THREE Super Bowls.

Nice first SB, Joe Flacco, but you still have work to do to be on the same level as Big Ben.

aa14
02-05-2013, 08:58 PM
Just because Joe Flacco wins a Super Bowl does NOT mean he is on the SAME LEVEL as Roethlisberger. Flacco has a long way to go. His numbers aren't as great, he doesn't make the same amount of great plays Roethlisberger does, he isn't as consistent, and Ben has played in THREE Super Bowls.

Nice first SB, Joe Flacco, but you still have work to do to be on the same level as Big Ben.

You're speaking of Roethlisberger in in the present tense as if he can still exude prime play. I don't think that is correct and you're in for a rude awakening next season. He has been hit way too much, not to mention injured. Another few years and Ben will definitely retire.

sluggermatt15
02-05-2013, 09:01 PM
You're speaking of Roethlisberger in in the present tense as if he can still exude prime play. I don't think that is correct and you're in for a rude awakening next season. He has been hit way too much, not to mention injured. Another few years and Ben will definitely retire.

Look at the stats. They don't lie. Roethlisberger is superior. Let's see how Flacco handles the pressure of being the "defending SB champion" QB next year. Everything will be stacked against him and his team.

Get out of here you troll.

RavenManiac
02-05-2013, 09:03 PM
I think all that has been proven is that Cam Cameron was a lead weight tied to Baltimore's offense for the last couple years. That Bryant McKinnie (plus juggling) > Jah Reid/Bobby Williams. That Flacco can look similar to the best QBs in the league when given protection and a good game plan.

The issue is how Flacco looks when the O-line isn't playing lights out. Past history indicates he is far below average in that department (then again Cameron was involved). The recent playoff run didn't show us anything to change that situation (the protection was too good).

Roethlisberger is still >> Flacco due to this last point. He makes more with less especially in terms of protection. Flacco makes less with less. It has been a long time since Ben has had the luxury of great pass blocking, but I can't imagine he is any less effective than Flacco with great protection.

That said, Flacco is going to get massively paid almost entirely because of this 5 game run from week 16 to the SB (excluding meaningless week 17 game). The timing couldn't have been any more perfect for him. And in a couple years we will see whether the impending contract looks fair or foolish/disasterous for the Ravens. The latter cannot be ruled out at all.

sw04ca
02-05-2013, 09:06 PM
Just because Joe Flacco wins a Super Bowl does NOT mean he is on the SAME LEVEL as Roethlisberger. Flacco has a long way to go. His numbers aren't as great, he doesn't make the same amount of great plays Roethlisberger does, he isn't as consistent, and Ben has played in THREE Super Bowls.

Nice first SB, Joe Flacco, but you still have work to do to be on the same level as Big Ben.
Does Flacco have the same legacy as Ben? Nope. But this last season was better than Ben's. We'll see what happens this season. Maybe it's an aberration, but maybe this is a changing of the guard.

aa14
02-05-2013, 09:06 PM
Look at the stats. They don't lie. Roethlisberger is superior. Let's see how Flacco handles the pressure of being the "defending SB champion" QB next year. Everything will be stacked against him and his team.

Get out of here you troll.

Roethlisberger had some GREAT days and some GREAT years. No one can ever take that away. I think it is apparent Flacco is on the rise as the newest superbowl MVP while Ben's best days are more than half a decade gone. He has taken way too many hits, it's sad. I know you disagree with me but as I inferred in my last post; you'll see come opening day.

sluggermatt15
02-05-2013, 09:10 PM
It sounds like both of you just jumped on the Ravens bandwagon in the not-so-distant past. Do you even watch football? By the likes of what you are typing here, it sounds not. Go ahead and start going around and saying Joe Flacco is God and that he is comparable to Tom Brady. See how far that gets you.

aa14
02-05-2013, 09:16 PM
It sounds like both of you just jumped on the Ravens bandwagon in the not-so-distant past. Do you even watch football? By the likes of what you are typing here, it sounds not. Go ahead and start going around and saying Joe Flacco is God and that he is comparable to Tom Brady. See how far that gets you.
So instead of engaging in a discussion about the players and teams you will start throwing out inane ad-hominem attacks. What is the point? Just ignore people you deem unworthy of discussing football if you feel as such. I didn't say anything as hyperbolic as Flacco being comparable to Tom brady. I didn't infer anything remotely close to that straw-man drivel.

sw04ca
02-05-2013, 09:21 PM
It sounds like both of you just jumped on the Ravens bandwagon in the not-so-distant past. Do you even watch football? By the likes of what you are typing here, it sounds not. Go ahead and start going around and saying Joe Flacco is God and that he is comparable to Tom Brady. See how far that gets you.
??? This sport is all about what have you done for me lately. You can't deny that Flacco's last four games were very well played, while Ben has been wracked by injury. I'm no fool who could say that Flacco's achievements so far have outweighed Ben's, but Flacco had a better year.

scottcurtis
02-05-2013, 09:31 PM
Just because Joe Flacco wins a Super Bowl does NOT mean he is on the SAME LEVEL as Roethlisberger. Flacco has a long way to go. His numbers aren't as great, he doesn't make the same amount of great plays Roethlisberger does, he isn't as consistent, and Ben has played in THREE Super Bowls.

Nice first SB, Joe Flacco, but you still have work to do to be on the same level as Big Ben.

And he sucked in 2 of them.

jacobo
02-05-2013, 09:44 PM
When people talk shit about Ben they always bring up XL like he didn't carry us through three road playoff games as a second year player haha

Gnutella
02-05-2013, 09:54 PM
And he sucked in 2 of them.

And he carried the team to victory when he absolutely had to in the other one.


When people talk shit about Ben they always bring up XL like he didn't carry us through three road playoff games as a second year player haha

They try to define his entire career by that game.

aa14
02-05-2013, 09:58 PM
And he carried the team to victory when he absolutely had to in the other one.

I agree with you but the fact remains that this becomes less and less relevant as time goes on. Much akin to Brady's last championship. Ben will not be able to sustain a high level of play for an entire season anymore. It was becoming apparent this season that while his mind was sharp and he was still capable of smart play, his body isn't able to keep up. The Steelers need to invest in the OL and a new QB to develop the next few seasons if they want to stay relevant in the AFC.

sw04ca
02-05-2013, 10:07 PM
You're overstating things. 'His body isn't able to keep up'? I don't think that's true. The problem is that he's getting blown up after 2 mississippis.

GMU Steeler
02-05-2013, 10:13 PM
When people talk shit about Ben they always bring up XL like he didn't carry us through three road playoff games as a second year player haha

Because it doesn't suit their agenda. Yeah Ben stank in SB-XL but the Steelers aren't there without him.

aa14
02-05-2013, 10:14 PM
You're overstating things. 'His body isn't able to keep up'? I don't think that's true. The problem is that he's getting blown up after 2 mississippis.

I've seen a decrease in his physical performance the past year and I attribute it to him being "blown up after 2 mississippis". It will get much worse next season if they don't fix the line.

scottcurtis
02-05-2013, 10:25 PM
And he carried the team to victory when he absolutely had to in the other one.




They try to define his entire career by that game.

Steelers arent even in that game without J. harrisons score.

scottcurtis
02-05-2013, 10:27 PM
I've seen a decrease in his physical performance the past year and I attribute it to him being "blown up after 2 mississippis". It will get much worse next season if they don't fix the line.

I see it as a total lack of conditioning and coming to camp with more chins than a Chinese phonebook !

aa14
02-05-2013, 10:31 PM
I see it as a total lack of conditioning and coming to camp with more chins than a Chinese phonebook !

He was somewhat overweight last camp and yes he should have the mental fortitude to cut down on the fatty foods but even so his O-line was very poor. It has to be one of the main reasons for the deterioration of his play.

harrison'samonster
02-05-2013, 10:31 PM
I see it as a total lack of conditioning and coming to camp with more chins than a Chinese phonebook !

I see this argument a lot. He's fit enough to play QB, he doesn't need to look like Brady Quinn or Tebow. Some people are just bigger, and that's one reason he's so hard to take down.

I really don't know what kind of conditioning he does, until somebody tells me he can't run a 40 or I see calling for plays off I'll assume he's in good enough shape to play at a high level.

Gnutella
02-05-2013, 10:39 PM
Steelers arent even in that game without J. harrisons score.

Steelers don't win without Roethlisberger's drive.

JeromeBetties63
02-05-2013, 11:16 PM
Roethlisberger had some GREAT days and some GREAT years. No one can ever take that away. I think it is apparent Flacco is on the rise as the newest superbowl MVP while Ben's best days are more than half a decade gone. He has taken way too many hits, it's sad. I know you disagree with me but as I inferred in my last post; you'll see come opening day.

Go look at Ben's stats this season before he got hurt. He was having a darn good year. You can say his prime is past but you would be wrong. Only way he doesn't out play Joe and lead Steelers to AFCN Title next year is injury.

NSMaster56
02-05-2013, 11:33 PM
The only thing that would have made the Ravens's ascent to the top sweeter would have been to dispose of the Steelers in the WC instead of Indy. Not the Ravens fault the Steelers couldn't make it to the dance though.

Yes, it's not the Ravens fault that the Steelers couldn't make it to the playoffs, but when they have faced off (Flacco vs. BB) it's:

Ravens 0
Steelers 2

NSMaster56
02-05-2013, 11:40 PM
I don't really buy that line of thinking. That's like saying that Garrard is better than Ben because he has the advantage over Ben in their head-to-head playoff record. And beat him in Pittsburgh. Flacco had a legendary postseason, and now it's time for the Steelers to step up and show they've still got it.

Faulty comparison. Garrard was never a starter as long as either Ben nor Flacco. As such, he had a short track record of games vs. PIT (maybe four total).

Ben and Flacco are comparison worthy since they have both had immediate [playoff] success in their first five years (8-2 w/ two rings for Ben, 9-4 with one for Flacco) and both came up in traditionally 'defense first' teams.

Furthermore and most importantly, Ben and Flacco have had the last five years to face off twice a year (plus playoffs) and in that time their H2H record is:

Regular season: 4-2, Big Ben
Total: 6-2, Big Ben

Hence why a Ben/Brady comparison is valid, because [since 2004] Ben vs. Brady games have netted similar results in favor of Brady.

EDIT: Big Ben vs. Brady: 2-4 Reg. Season, 2-5 TOT

aa14
02-05-2013, 11:42 PM
Yes, it's not the Ravens fault that the Steelers couldn't make it to the playoffs, but when they have faced off (Flacco vs. BB) it's:

Ravens 0
Steelers 3

That time has passed. The reality is the Ravens are world champions and the Steelers watched half of the AFC north compete in the only important football the season has to offer on tv like the average fan did. I understand the optimism regarding the return of Ben but as a realist I only see the steelers competing with the Bengals for the WC at this point. Dalton is rising and Ben has been taking a beating for the ages from poor o-line play.

NSMaster56
02-06-2013, 12:17 AM
That time has passed.

FAR from definitive.

I understand the optimism regarding the return of Ben but as a realist I only see the steelers competing with the Bengals for the WC at this point.

The optimism and realism are hand in hand. The Steelers win with (a healthy) Ben and don't without him. There are mountains of evidence as proof.

Dalton is rising and Ben has been taking a beating for the ages from poor o-line play.

Big Ben has taken a beating and his time is 'winding down', but writing him (and the Steelers) off entirely seems foolish; as foolish as saying Flacco would 'never win one'.

If in five years Flacco has as many or more rings than Big Ben and the Steelers struggle to make/win in the playoffs, then we can start making bold statements.

Until then, it's too soon to put carts before horses.

LayingTheWoodley56
02-06-2013, 08:04 AM
Flacco is not elite, just because you win a superbowl doesn't make you elite, Ben has won 2 but anyone thats not on the steelers fever forums will tell you hes not Elite.

Elite is Brady, Rogers, P. Manning and Breese. Thats it Ben, Ryan, Eli, Flacco are good- great but not elite. Watch one of the four guys week in and week out for a whole season, then watch flacco/ ben week in and week out, you'll get my drift.

That's completely untrue. If anything Ben gets MORE criticism from within Steeler Nation and on this board than he does nationally. From everything I've ever heard he's regarded very highly by non-Steeler fans and media pundits as a player.

sluggermatt15
02-06-2013, 10:50 AM
??? This sport is all about what have you done for me lately. You can't deny that Flacco's last four games were very well played, while Ben has been wracked by injury. I'm no fool who could say that Flacco's achievements so far have outweighed Ben's, but Flacco had a better year.

I said nothing about how Flacco performed vs. Big Ben in 2012-2013. I also said nothing about Flacco's last 4 games. Why are you making assumptions when I haven't voiced my opinion on those topics?

JeromeBetties63
02-06-2013, 10:50 AM
That time has passed. The reality is the Ravens are world champions and the Steelers watched half of the AFC north compete in the only important football the season has to offer on tv like the average fan did. I understand the optimism regarding the return of Ben but as a realist I only see the steelers competing with the Bengals for the WC at this point. Dalton is rising and Ben has been taking a beating for the ages from poor o-line play.

It's one season in the NFL...wake up. Are you 14?

fansince'76
02-06-2013, 11:33 AM
I see it as a total lack of conditioning and coming to camp with more chins than a Chinese phonebook !

Right. :rolleyes:

2010:

After nearly one week of training camp for the Pittsburgh Steelers, the early reviews are coming in and one of the clear stars of camp has been Ben Roethlisberger.

Roethlisberger has been very sharp in team drills, moving swiftly throughout the pocket and connecting on a majority of his passes. Much of this can be credited to his physical conditioning as he is possibly in the best shape of his career.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/430254-pittsburgh-steelers-training-camp-quarterback-news-and-other-camp-notes

2011:

PITTSBURGH — Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger and the starters will play at least the first half in Saturday night’s game against the Falcons — their longest outing of the preseason.

Roethlisberger has looked very good throughout camp, making quick decisions and throwing with a lot of velocity. He came to camp in good shape, maybe his best ever, and it shows.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-08-25/pittsburgh-steelers-team-report-ben-roethlisberger-to-play-first-half-or-more


2012:

LATROBE, Pa. (AP) — Tight spiral after tight spiral. Repeated deep balls lofted deftly into the waiting hands of a receiver not breaking stride.

Ben Roethlisberger has looked as sharp as ever during practices throughout much of this Pittsburgh Steelers training camp this summer.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/02/steelers-training-camp-ben-roethlisberger-same_n_1735291.html

Keep on shoveling it.

Riddle_Of_Steel
02-06-2013, 02:03 PM
Right. :rolleyes:

2010:



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/430254-pittsburgh-steelers-training-camp-quarterback-news-and-other-camp-notes

2011:



http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-08-25/pittsburgh-steelers-team-report-ben-roethlisberger-to-play-first-half-or-more


2012:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/02/steelers-training-camp-ben-roethlisberger-same_n_1735291.html

Keep on shoveling it.

That's nice and all that some fellow fan decided to blog on AOL that Ben is his hero and all but....

Why could we not score more than 27 points all season, except for a game that we lost to one of the league's worst? Whether we have been under Arians or Haley, this offense routinely lands around #20 at scoring-- which is the primary responsibility of the offense I thought.

There are such extremes around here! Some of you want to dump Ben at the first sign of trouble, and then there are the kool-aid drinkers that won't even acknowlege that a problem exists.

SteelersCanada
02-06-2013, 02:08 PM
I see it as a total lack of conditioning and coming to camp with more chins than a Chinese phonebook !

Ben isn't skinny, but he isn't a read option Quarterback. Part of his charm is the fact that he's hard to tackle and bring down thus he has amazing evasion.

SteelersCanada
02-06-2013, 02:10 PM
Why could we not score more than 27 points all season, except for a game that we lost to one of the league's worst? Whether we have been under Arians or Haley, this offense routinely lands around #20 at scoring-- which is the primary responsibility of the offense I thought..

There's multiple reasons for this. Lack of turnovers for one. But, you don't need to score more than 27 points when you have the ball for 35 - 36 minutes / game. If our defense shows up next year in week 1 like they did in the back half of this year, we're going to be fine and we're going to be putting up points in Haley's offense.

sw04ca
02-06-2013, 02:26 PM
Faulty comparison. Garrard was never a starter as long as either Ben nor Flacco. As such, he had a short track record of games vs. PIT (maybe four total).

Ben and Flacco are comparison worthy since they have both had immediate [playoff] success in their first five years (8-2 w/ two rings for Ben, 9-4 with one for Flacco) and both came up in traditionally 'defense first' teams.

Furthermore and most importantly, Ben and Flacco have had the last five years to face off twice a year (plus playoffs) and in that time their H2H record is:

Regular season: 4-2, Big Ben
Total: 6-2, Big Ben

Hence why a Ben/Brady comparison is valid, because [since 2004] Ben vs. Brady games have netted similar results in favor of Brady.

EDIT: Big Ben vs. Brady: 2-4 Reg. Season, 2-5 TOT
Garrard was a starter for 5 years. During that time he played the Steelers 3 times and beat them twice, including a playoff win. It's not exactly a storied rivalry, but it is a history. It illustrates why I don't think that David 'owns' Ben or the Steelers or anything like that.

At any rate, hopefully Ben can stay relatively intact this year so that he'll have the chance to show what he can do, because the last time he played against the Ravens was Flacco's last second drive for the win.

sw04ca
02-06-2013, 02:29 PM
I said nothing about how Flacco performed vs. Big Ben in 2012-2013. I also said nothing about Flacco's last 4 games. Why are you making assumptions when I haven't voiced my opinion on those topics?
You're right. The only thing you voiced an opinion on is that people who (presumably) disagree with you are 'on the Ravens bandwagon'. It was probably a mistake on my part to respond to such an obvious troll post.

sw04ca
02-06-2013, 02:32 PM
Ben isn't skinny, but he isn't a read option Quarterback. Part of his charm is the fact that he's hard to tackle and bring down thus he has amazing evasion.
No kidding. Ben's size and strength are a huge advantage in his game. How many times have we watched him outmuscle a defensive end trying to bring him down and launch a deep strike? His problem isn't his conditioning.

fansince'76
02-06-2013, 03:01 PM
That's nice and all that some fellow fan decided to blog on AOL that Ben is his hero and all but....

Why could we not score more than 27 points all season, except for a game that we lost to one of the league's worst? Whether we have been under Arians or Haley, this offense routinely lands around #20 at scoring-- which is the primary responsibility of the offense I thought.

There are such extremes around here! Some of you want to dump Ben at the first sign of trouble, and then there are the kool-aid drinkers that won't even acknowlege that a problem exists.

Might want to actually read the post I was responding to. It adds something called "context."

Gnutella
02-06-2013, 03:08 PM
Why could we not score more than 27 points all season, except for a game that we lost to one of the league's worst?

Because the Steelers had the third-fewest non-passing TDs of any team in the league. Only the Raiders and Jaguars had fewer.

The Steelers scored 36 TDs last year, which ranked 22nd in the NFL. Of those 36 TDs, 27 of them were passes. As a team, they ranked in the top 10 in TD passes (tied for 8th, to be specific), but in the bottom five in TD runs, defensive TDs and special teams TDs.


Whether we have been under Arians or Haley, this offense routinely lands around #20 at scoring-- which is the primary responsibility of the offense I thought.

No, the team ranks around 20th in scoring, not just the offense. Let's do some math here: Ben Roethlisberger threw 26 TD passes in 12-and-a-half games. That's 2.08 TD passes per game. Multiply 2.08 by 16 and you get a number that rounds down to 33. In other words, Roethlisberger was on pace to throw 33 TD passes in 16 games. (Yes, I understand that he could have thrown fewer than 33 in 16 games, but he could have just as likely thrown more than 33.)

You know where 33 TD passes would rank among all NFL teams? 5th. Yes, Roethlisberger had the passing game on pace to score the fifth-most TDs in the NFL had he not been injured. When you consider that the Steelers only scored nine non-passing TDs all season (eight running, one defense, zero special teams), improving the TD pass tally from 26 to 33 would have only improved the Steelers to 15th in total TDs scored, despite ranking in the top five in TD passes.

The problem is that the Steelers aren't scoring enough by means other than the pass. The passing game is doing virtually all the work in terms of scoring TDs. It's time for the rest of the team to help out.

VaDave
02-06-2013, 03:14 PM
Faulty comparison. Garrard was never a starter as long as either Ben nor Flacco. As such, he had a short track record of games vs. PIT (maybe four total).

Ben and Flacco are comparison worthy since they have both had immediate [playoff] success in their first five years (8-2 w/ two rings for Ben, 9-4 with one for Flacco) and both came up in traditionally 'defense first' teams.

Furthermore and most importantly, Ben and Flacco have had the last five years to face off twice a year (plus playoffs) and in that time their H2H record is:

Regular season: 4-2, Big Ben
Total: 6-2, Big Ben

Hence why a Ben/Brady comparison is valid, because [since 2004] Ben vs. Brady games have netted similar results in favor of Brady.

EDIT: Big Ben vs. Brady: 2-4 Reg. Season, 2-5 TOT

The problem with the Jags wasn't that Girard was that much better of a QB. The problem we had with Jaguars was a thing called zone blocking, which the Ravens have now adopted.

It's a weakness of LeBeau's defense, especially with Ziggy Hood and the ever so soft, Lamar Woodley in the line up. Woodley can't hold the egde, and Hood gets turned as easy as flapjacks on a griddle. Out ILBs get caught in the wash, and then there's nobody home to catch the cutback.

scottcurtis
02-06-2013, 05:36 PM
Right. :rolleyes:

2010:



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/430254-pittsburgh-steelers-training-camp-quarterback-news-and-other-camp-notes

2011:



http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-08-25/pittsburgh-steelers-team-report-ben-roethlisberger-to-play-first-half-or-more


2012:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/02/steelers-training-camp-ben-roethlisberger-same_n_1735291.html

Keep on shoveling it.

Tell me 2 QB's fatter then Ben ?

scottcurtis
02-06-2013, 05:44 PM
Tell me 2 QB's fatter then Ben ?


Proof is in the chins !

Riddle_Of_Steel
02-06-2013, 05:58 PM
The problem is that the Steelers aren't scoring enough by means other than the pass. The passing game is doing virtually all the work in terms of scoring TDs. It's time for the rest of the team to help out.

Very true.

I will be one of the first to say I was wrong about our run game this year. Prior to the start of the season-- I was pretty self-assured that Redman and Dwyer would be able to fill in Mendy's role without missing a beat.

Boy, was I wrong. They were absolutely terrible on the ground this year.

I don't think Redman got a good chance to show his stuff- just so happens that he was hurt to start the season when he may have finally had his chance to shine. it is what it is I guess.

lloydwoodson
02-06-2013, 06:20 PM
You know where 33 TD passes would rank among all NFL teams? 5th. Yes, Roethlisberger had the passing game on pace to score the fifth-most TDs in the NFL had he not been injured. When you consider that the Steelers only scored nine non-passing TDs all season (eight running, one defense, zero special teams), improving the TD pass tally from 26 to 33 would have only improved the Steelers to 15th in total TDs scored, despite ranking in the top five in TD passes.



That's really great that Roethlisberger would have finished 5th in TD passes... if you play fantasy football.

Here is where the team ranks over the past 5 years in scoring: 22, 21, 12, 12, 20. Not very good for a top 5 quarterback.

Mm hmm I have seen people use the TDs scored by non passing stat before. 8 running touchdowns is terrible and directly relates to poor offensive production. You think running backs are breaking 20+ yard touchdown runs regularly? Or are runningbacks punching the ball in from the 1 as a result of a highly functioning offense?

I don't expect the defense to score I expect the defense to keep the other team from scoring (although the defense and special teams contributed hugely to the Superbowl wins).

NSMaster56
02-06-2013, 08:42 PM
Garrard was a starter for 5 years.

4 1/2 years. Only five total if you count the half season he filled in for an injured Leftwich in 05.

In any event, in that time he only played Big Ben thrice compared to Flacco playing Ben eight times in five years (and Brady playing Ben six times in seven years).

During that time he played the Steelers 3 times and beat them twice, including a playoff win. It's not exactly a storied rivalry, but it is a history. It illustrates why I don't think that David 'owns' Ben or the Steelers or anything like that.

Agreed.

Hence why a Garrard vs. Big Ben is faulty compared to Flacco vs. Big Ben and/or Big Ben vs. Brady.

It's not that Big Ben 'owns' Flacco (although it'd be easy to argue that Brady 'owns' Big Ben) or that Flacco has been bad when he plays the Steelers (he actually has a 11-5 TD/INT ratio vs. the Steelers and 8/3 vs. Big Ben, superior to Ben), but rather that Big Ben, based on the metric which matters most (H2H record), has been better than Flacco when they have played.

In fact, and FWIW, Flacco's playoff stats vs. the Steelers are ugly. Big Ben wipes the floor with him.

Until that changes it's unfair to say definitively that the Ravens 'have solved' the Steelers or that Big Ben and co. are 'done', as such a statement is not in any way factual.

TheVet
02-07-2013, 11:52 PM
Where do these two guys stack up against each other in the regular season and postseason?
I think Flacco has been a very good QB who has improved steadily, whereas Ben is a great QB who started out on the highest trajectory, but hasn't really improved as consistently as expected. He's still ahead of Flacco, no doubt about it. But lets watch as the careers unfold; it could be a tortoise and hare scenario, you never know. But Ben has the higher upside, and it will all depend on what he's got inside.
But while we have been bashing Joe Flacco for years, has he silently become a viable postseason passer? The truth is that Flacco has played quite well throughout his career. Too many Steelers fans can't recognize talent unless it's in black and gold. Right from the beginning, I thought, "Uggh, Baltimore finally has a QB."
Ill tell you mine

1. Tom Brady
2. Aaron Rogers
3. Peyton Manning
4. Drew Breese
5. Eli Manning
----------
heres where it gets tough
6. Kaepernick
7. Ben
8. Ryan
9. Flacco

Luck RG3 and Wilson could all make arguments, but too early to call any of them consistent.
I feel stupider after having read this thread. This list is a good example of why.
agreed. but Ben is not elite either. I would think ranked from 8-12 for both with Ben ahead for now
This guy's list was another good example, Ben 8-12 LOL.
Lets not get all wrapped up with kaepernick. Think Kordell Stewart.
:confused:Uhhhhh, one of these guys can hit a moving target with a football, and the other can't hit the side of a barn.
The comparison has nothing to do with team philosophy, and everything to do with the quality of weapons each QB has been given.
That's a very good point. It applies to the OL, the WRs, the backs, the OC (until this year) and the HC (yes Veronica, there is a big gap here). And of course, there's the perennial comedy of the Steelers special teams - but Ben has been blessed with the better defense.

Overall, Ben has made an awful lot from the poor hands he's been dealt over the past five years.

BlaZeQuietly
02-09-2013, 03:35 AM
Wow for all the shit I took for saying Ben isn't that great anymore, everyone now seems to agree, that's strange, lol. By the way Ray lewis has the same amount of rings as he does murder indictments :P.

Ben Vs Joe... Joe plays really freekin well in the play offs, Ben doesn't. We are trading our #1 pick and our 1 and 2 picks next season for Alex Smith? anyone think he might be bens replacement?

VaDave
02-09-2013, 07:39 AM
Wow for all the shit I took for saying Ben isn't that great anymore, everyone now seems to agree, that's strange, lol. By the way Ray lewis has the same amount of rings as he does murder indictments :P.

Ben Vs Joe... Joe plays really freekin well in the play offs, Ben doesn't. We are trading our #1 pick and our 1 and 2 picks next season for Alex Smith? anyone think he might be bens replacement?

It's got to be drugs.....LOL!!

We are not trading two years of # 1 draft picks for anybody. We have way too many holes to fill. Now if you want to incude that fullback of their's, Rocky Bowman, a few other players of off their starting Oline, in ADDITION to Smith, maybe you got something there.

Buddha Bus
02-09-2013, 07:53 AM
Apparently weed isn't the only thing burning in that pipe.

VaDave
02-09-2013, 08:37 AM
Apparently weed isn't the only thing burning in that pipe.

I guess that's why he calls himself "Blaze" maybe???

Buddha Bus
02-09-2013, 09:17 AM
I guess that's why he calls himself "Blaze" maybe???

I thought it was because his meth lab blew up one night and he was seen running down the street on fire.

Bayz101
02-09-2013, 09:49 AM
Wow for all the shit I took for saying Ben isn't that great anymore, everyone now seems to agree, that's strange, lol. By the way Ray lewis has the same amount of rings as he does murder indictments :P.

Ben Vs Joe... Joe plays really freekin well in the play offs, Ben doesn't. We are trading our #1 pick and our 1 and 2 picks next season for Alex Smith? anyone think he might be bens replacement?

Why is your name BlaZeQuietly when it's quite obvious to all of us you're on something?

Buddha Bus
02-09-2013, 09:59 AM
Why is your name BlaZeQuietly when it's quite obvious to all of us you're on something?

That "something" is apparently Alex Smith's balls.

aa14
02-09-2013, 11:37 AM
Why is your name BlaZeQuietly when it's quite obvious to all of us you're on something?

Alex would be a serviceable replacement for Ben should he get injured. At this point I don't think it would surprise anyone if Ben was gone by week 6 next season. Alex could provide some stability and even replace him for the next season or two going forward. Well, at least until you develop the next QB you draft. I don't think the Steelers have the luxury of starting a rookie QB on day 1 due to the poor play of the o-line. Don't be surprised if they pick him up!

pete74
02-09-2013, 12:23 PM
Alex would be a serviceable replacement for Ben should he get injured. At this point I don't think it would surprise anyone if Ben was gone by week 6 next season. Alex could provide some stability and even replace him for the next season or two going forward. Well, at least until you develop the next QB you draft. I don't think the Steelers have the luxury of starting a rookie QB on day 1 due to the poor play of the o-line. Don't be surprised if they pick him up!

Agreed. I wouldn't give up a first to get him but Ben misses time every year then comesback injured and plays bad. We need a very good backup that can guide us thru at least 5 games

TheVet
02-09-2013, 02:27 PM
Would love to have Alex Smith as a backup, but he's probably going to be a starter somewhere.