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Gnutella
02-05-2013, 12:11 PM
Here are John Elway's career statistics split between his first 10 seasons in the NFL and his last six...


1983-1992


2,375/4,339, 30,216 yards, 158 TD, 157 INT

54.7% completion
212.8 yards per game
7.0 yards per attempt

3.6% TD
3.6% INT
1.01 TD/INT ratio

331 sacks
7.1% sack

73.8 rating


1993-1998


1,748/2,911, 21,259 yards, 142 TD, 69 INT

60.0% completion
238.9 yards per game
7.3 yards per attempt

4.9% TD
2.4% INT
2.06 TD/INT ratio

185 sacks
6.0% sack

88.9 rating


And here's Elway's injury history...


1983: Injured during the fifth game, did not play the next four games

1984: Injured during the first game, active but did not start the next game

1986: Injured during the third game, started the next game

1987: Injured during the second game, did not play the next three games

1990: Injured during the eighth game, started the next game

1992: Injured during the 10th game, did not play the next four games

1994: Injured during the 13th game, did not play the next game; injured during the 15th game, did not play the next game

1995: Injured during the 10th game, started the next game

1998: Injured during the third game, did not play the next two games; injured during the ninth game, did not play the next game


John Elway had moments of greatness during his first 10 years in the NFL, but was not the most consistent QB. He had plenty of good games with some great games embedded therein, but every now and then he'd have some bad games too, and his bad games were terrible. He also had a lengthy injury history, and people said he took too many sacks. Does this all sound familiar? It should.

If Bronco fans were like Steeler fans, then many of them would have started calling Elway "dumb" by 1990, claiming that he's not "cerebral" enough to ever be a great QB, and asking why he couldn't be more like Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Troy Aikman or Jim Kelly. Other fans would have lamented the decline of the Broncos by pointing to Elway's injury history, claiming that he was on the downside of his career, and that his best days were in the past. Some would even go so far as to suggest trading him away.

Of course, as we all know, Elway's best days were yet to come, and he became a better and more consistent QB during his last six seasons in the league than he was during his first 10 seasons. The Broncos gave him a stellar offensive line and an excellent running game, which brought out the best in him. Nobody tried to discredit him for having such a good supporting cast either, nor did anybody question his greatness despite a poor stat line when he finally won his first Super Bowl.

We're blessed to have our John Elway now. His name is Ben Roethlisberger, and he needs to be given more respect. If Elway and the Broncos weren't done by 1992, then Roethlisberger and the Steelers sure as hell aren't done now. And if Elway was a great QB, then goddamn it; Roethlisberger is a great QB too.

GMU Steeler
02-05-2013, 12:13 PM
Didn't the Broncos draft Tommy Maddox in 1992 with him to be Elway's successor? Anyhow, not arguing with your point, we're fortunate to have Ben and I do think it's possible that he has another SB win or maybe even two in him. You don't know what you have until you've lost it and we'd discover that immediately if we lost Ben. I would not be opposed to signing a young backup for him though.

steelfury02
02-05-2013, 12:15 PM
Here are John Elway's career statistics split between his first 10 seasons in the NFL and his last six...


1983-1992


2,375/4,339, 30,216 yards, 158 TD, 157 INT

54.7% completion
212.8 yards per game
7.0 yards per attempt

3.6% TD
3.6% INT
1.01 TD/INT ratio

331 sacks
7.1% sack

73.8 rating


1993-1998


1,748/2,911, 21,259 yards, 142 TD, 69 INT

60.0% completion
238.9 yards per game
7.3 yards per attempt

4.9% TD
2.4% INT
2.06 TD/INT ratio

185 sacks
6.0% sack

88.9 rating


And here's Elway's injury history...


1983: Injured during the fifth game, did not play the next four games

1984: Injured during the first game, active but did not start the next game

1986: Injured during the third game, started the next game

1987: Injured during the second game, did not play the next three games

1990: Injured during the eighth game, started the next game

1992: Injured during the 10th game, did not play the next four games

1994: Injured during the 13th game, did not play the next game; injured during the 15th game, did not play the next game

1995: Injured during the 10th game, started the next game

1998: Injured during the third game, did not play the next two games; injured during the ninth game, did not play the next game


John Elway had moments of greatness during his first 10 years in the NFL, but was not the most consistent QB. He had plenty of good games with some great games embedded therein, but every now and then he'd have some bad games too, and his bad games were terrible. He also had a lengthy injury history, and people said he took too many sacks. Does this all sound familiar? It should.

If Bronco fans were like Steeler fans, then many of them would have started calling Elway "dumb" by 1990, claiming that he's not "cerebral" enough to ever be a great QB, and asking why he couldn't be more like Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Troy Aikman or Jim Kelly. Other fans would have lamented the decline of the Broncos by pointing to Elway's injury history, claiming that he was on the downside of his career, and that his best days were in the past. Some would even go so far as to suggest trading him away.

Of course, as we all know, Elway's best days were yet to come, and he became a better and more consistent QB during his last six seasons in the league than he was during his first 10 seasons. The Broncos gave him a stellar offensive line and an excellent running game, which brought out the best in him. Nobody tried to discredit him for having such a good supporting cast either, nor did anybody question his greatness despite a poor stat line when he finally won his first Super Bowl.

We're blessed to have our John Elway now. His name is Ben Roethlisberger, and he needs to be given more respect. If Elway and the Broncos weren't done by 1992, then Roethlisberger and the Steelers sure as hell aren't done now. And if Elway was a great QB, then goddamn it; Roethlisberger is a great QB too.

Gnutella - THANK YOU x six trajillion. COME ON PEOPLE.

wwhickok
02-05-2013, 12:15 PM
So he is gonna buy the team?(based soley on the title) OH GOD!! :rofl:

harrison'samonster
02-05-2013, 12:16 PM
very well said, thanks for the post. There's no reason for us to start counting down until Roethlisberger's done, or calling him done.

What we need to do is give him better weapons. Wallace/Brown and Dwyer/Redman aren't going to be a supporting cast to win it all.

wwhickok
02-05-2013, 12:17 PM
Gnutella, very interesting post, I like it.

Gnutella
02-05-2013, 12:18 PM
Didn't the Broncos draft Tommy Maddox in 1992 with him to be Elway's successor? Anyhow, not arguing with your point, we're fortunate to have Ben and I do think it's possible that he has another SB win or maybe even two in him. You don't know what you have until you've lost it and we'd discover that immediately if we lost Ben. I would not be opposed to signing a young backup for him though.

Honestly, the way some of our fan base treat Roethlisberger, I'd rather the Steelers just get some younger veterans to be the backup QBs. You think all the talk about how the Steelers should trade Roethlisberger is stupid? Drafting a young QB will do nothing but kick that ignorant shit into overdrive, and then we'll have a bunch of fucking morons clamoring for the young guy the next time Roethlisberger throws two INTs in a game.

GMU Steeler
02-05-2013, 12:22 PM
Honestly, the way some of our fan base treat Roethlisberger, I'd rather the Steelers just get some younger veterans to be the backup QBs. You think all the talk about how the Steelers should trade Roethlisberger is stupid? Drafting a young QB will do nothing but kick that ignorant shit into overdrive, and then we'll have a bunch of fucking morons clamoring for the young guy the next time Roethlisberger throws two INTs in a game.

Younger vet is what I mean by younger guy. Didn't say I wanted to draft someone. Someone who fits what Batch was when we first got him in 2002. Someone who knows he's not a starter but can play in a pinch ya know?

Gnutella
02-05-2013, 12:22 PM
What we need to do is give him better weapons. Wallace/Brown and Dwyer/Redman aren't going to be a supporting cast to win it all.

Ben Roethlisberger has had the worst weapons of any top-tier QB in the NFL in the last five years. The offensive line and RBs have been mediocre if not downright bad, and the WRs have been overrated. Heath Miller and Maurkice Pouncey have literally been the only other players on offense who have been consistently good.

steelfury02
02-05-2013, 12:23 PM
Honestly, the way some of our fan base treat Roethlisberger, I'd rather the Steelers just get some younger veterans to be the backup QBs. You think all the talk about how the Steelers should trade Roethlisberger is stupid? Drafting a young QB will do nothing but kick that ignorant shit into overdrive, and then we'll have a bunch of fucking morons clamoring for the young guy the next time Roethlisberger throws two INTs in a game.

and if you think 8-8 is bad people, having to endure another O'Donnel/Tomczak/Stewart/Maddox era will make me go full on barf mode. For the love of God, remember 5-3 and the Giants game. If we get supporting cast to produce at that level, we are untouchable, i.e. steamrolling the AFC to the tune of the late 90s Broncos.

GET A HOLD OF YOURSELF BEN HATERS. The man's got some stuff left, some real championship quality potential left in him. Cool it.

Steel_Bus_24
02-05-2013, 12:25 PM
Yep, thats who Ive always thought Ben compared to the most......hope he goes out on top like Elway too, with 2 more SBs

Steve McNair was anoher QB of the same mold

Man I hope the Steelers get their sh** together and do what Alabama did after their rival auburn won one

steelfury02
02-05-2013, 12:30 PM
Yep, thats who Ive always thought Ben compared to the most......hope he goes out on top like Elway too, with 2 more SBs

Steve McNair was anoher QB of the same mold

Man I hope the Steelers get their sh** together and do what Alabama did after their rival auburn won one

oh hell yes - this is getting me fired up

GMU Steeler
02-05-2013, 12:32 PM
oh hell yes - this is getting me fired up

I hope the players feel the same way. especially Woodley who vowed that Flacco would never win a SB in his lifetime. Well Lamarr, he just won the SB and won SB MVP.. Go and have a hell of a season.

steelfury02
02-05-2013, 12:36 PM
I hope the players feel the same way. especially Woodley who vowed that Flacco would never win a SB in his lifetime. Well Lamarr, he just won the SB and won SB MVP.. Go and have a hell of a season.

Was it over when the German's bombed pearl harbor?

GMU Steeler
02-05-2013, 12:38 PM
Was it over when the German's bombed pearl harbor?

Germans?
Forget he's rolling.

But yeah. I'm excited for next year. I think we're going to surprise a bunch of people next year when their guard is down about us.

steelfury02
02-05-2013, 12:38 PM
Germans?
Forget he's rolling.

But yeah. I'm excited for next year. I think we're going to surprise a bunch of people next year when their guard is down about us.

never saw Animal House?

GMU Steeler
02-05-2013, 12:41 PM
never saw Animal House?

Yeah. The Germans? and Forget he's rolling are from the movie, remember?

steelfury02
02-05-2013, 12:47 PM
Yeah. The Germans? and Forget he's rolling are from the movie, remember?

lololol YES - now I remember - I thought you were meaning moi lol hilarious stuff

"RAMMING SPEEEEEEED"

in other news, we see consistent line and Ben stays healthy we got a shot peeps - always got a shot

GMU Steeler
02-05-2013, 12:48 PM
lololol YES - now I remember - I thought you were meaning moi lol hilarious stuff

"RAMMING SPEEEEEEED"

in other news, we see consistent line and Ben stays healthy we got a shot peeps - always got a shot

Haha, it's all good. Yeah I think consistent line playing, healthy Ben are the keys. We need to stay healthy on D too. It would also help if one of our young guys has a coming out season next year. Hoping it's Cam Heyward. He's in his third year now and I think ust waiting to do something special.

steelfury02
02-05-2013, 12:51 PM
Haha, it's all good. Yeah I think consistent line playing, healthy Ben are the keys. We need to stay healthy on D too. It would also help if one of our young guys has a coming out season next year. Hoping it's Cam Heyward. He's in his third year now and I think ust waiting to do something special.

that last part, the young guys stepping up is key to us getting #7 - we need to let them take a few lumps and gain some in-game speed and confidence

If the Ravens can put McKinnie or whoever at LT that late in the game, we can let our guys make more mistakes in the beginning. Have to take the training wheels off and let them be aggressive - we'll never know what our strengths are on D if we can't let them make mistakes

GMU Steeler
02-05-2013, 12:59 PM
that last part, the young guys stepping up is key to us getting #7 - we need to let them take a few lumps and gain some in-game speed and confidence

If the Ravens can put McKinnie or whoever at LT that late in the game, we can let our guys make more mistakes in the beginning. Have to take the training wheels off and let them be aggressive - we'll never know what our strengths are on D if we can't let them make mistakes

Totally. I'd rather see what we have with Spence/Slyvester than have Foote back.

SteelersCanada
02-05-2013, 02:27 PM
They're actually very similar players in more than just stats. But, it's a very interesting post and so far so good with the feedback.

Wallace / Brown is a 1-2 punch that rivals any WR set in the NFL if they're used in the correct system and one of them doesn't hold out and have to catch up on the book midseason. That being said, I think Emmanuel Sanders is a better overall WR than Wallace is anyway, he just needs to get out of the habit of fumbling the ball. Brown does, too, but their mistakes are coachable and ultimately, fixable mistakes. If we start to utilize Cotchery, then we have a solid 3 set for Roethlisberger. We don't necessarily need an All-Star WR and we're not going to find one in this draft anyway.

Ben just needs a stable of legitimate RBs to return to the week 10 form of this year. I feel sure we'll get there.

desertsteel
02-05-2013, 03:15 PM
What makes you think that the Bronco fans weren't bitching? I'm sure they were.

pczach
02-05-2013, 03:34 PM
Let's also not forget that for years he had to survive in Dan Reeve's offensive philosophy. Run the ball and play defense. Then, when everything else fails, go out and win the game for us.....sound familiar?

Enter Mike Shanahan. The rest is history. Late in Elway's career, Shanahan stated he was the greatest qb he's been around, and wished he had had the chance to coach him much earlier in his career. He said he would have owned every qb record by the end of his career if he had played in his system his entire career.

Let's hope Todd Haley figures out a way to maximize Ben's abilities and he is given the weapons to help them become a devastating offense. Let's also hope that the organization is smart enough to understand that you only hurt your team when you try to force an offensive style of play when you don't have the talent to run it.

Ricco Suavez
02-05-2013, 06:24 PM
I posted a somewhat similar thread about much the same. Ben up to this point compared to Elway has much better numbers, playoff and regular season. Elway could not get a Superbowl win until the Broncos had a very good RB named Davis. We need a stable of good RBs and/or quality offensive line play to have better production out of our run game. While playing a quicker passing game we still need to open it up down the field much like the Ravens have done,(really do not think we will get as many PI calls though)

harrison'samonster
02-05-2013, 06:35 PM
I posted a somewhat similar thread about much the same. Ben up to this point compared to Elway has much better numbers, playoff and regular season. Elway could not get a Superbowl win until the Broncos had a very good RB named Davis. We need a stable of good RBs and/or quality offensive line play to have better production out of our run game. While playing a quicker passing game we still need to open it up down the field much like the Ravens have done,(really do not think we will get as many PI calls though)

I think getting a RB who can keep the pressure off of Ben is necessary to protect him and help him avoid injuries.

zcoop
02-05-2013, 06:51 PM
Ben Roethlisberger has had the worst weapons of any top-tier QB in the NFL in the last five years. The offensive line and RBs have been mediocre if not downright bad, and the WRs have been overrated. Heath Miller and Maurkice Pouncey have literally been the only other players on offense who have been consistently good.

This is total bullshit, check the stats of our Wrs and the top-tier teams you're referencing and I think you'll realize that. Two of ours were All-Pro last year and the year before we were in the SB (lost); won it in 2009. Check the stats over the five year period and come back and post an intelligent response.

Some of you said that Arians offense sucked, yet you expect the wrs to be great, then we get the dink and dunk which produced about 1000 less yards that his teams did, again its the wrs fault. When it comes to Ben's failures, its, you guessed it the wrs fault yet again and of course the Oline. Football is a TEAM sport. Miss me with the stupid shit man.

Gnutella
02-05-2013, 07:02 PM
This is total bullshit, check the stats of our Wrs and the top-tier teams you're referencing and I think you'll realize that. Two of ours were All-Pro last year and the year before we were in the SB (lost); won it in 2009. Check the stats over the five year period and come back and post an intelligent response.

What's Santonio Holmes done since leaving the Steelers, aside from turning the Jets locker room into a dumpster fire? What does Mike Wallace do consistently well, aside from catching deep passes in wide-open spaces? What impact plays did Antonio Brown make this past season, aside from two momentum-killing fumbles? The only consistently good WR the Steelers have had in the last decade is Hines Ward. The rest of them have been overrated.

Gnutella
02-05-2013, 07:06 PM
What makes you think that the Bronco fans weren't bitching?

Bronco fans don't treat their QBs like shit the way Steeler fans do. Bronco fans loved Tim Tebow. Steeler fans hated Terry Bradshaw.

zcoop
02-05-2013, 08:08 PM
What's Santonio Holmes done since leaving the Steelers, aside from turning the Jets locker room into a dumpster fire? What does Mike Wallace do consistently well, aside from catching deep passes in wide-open spaces? What impact plays did Antonio Brown make this past season, aside from two momentum-killing fumbles? The only consistently good WR the Steelers have had in the last decade is Hines Ward. The rest of them have been overrated.

Cut the shit, I'm still waiting on you to intelligently back-up the post that I still call bullshit. Can you do that please?

Gnutella
02-05-2013, 09:28 PM
Cut the shit, I'm still waiting on you to intelligently back-up the post that I still call bullshit. Can you do that please?

OK, sure...


This is total bullshit, check the stats of our Wrs and the top-tier teams you're referencing and I think you'll realize that.

Two of ours were All-Pro last year and the year before we were in the SB (lost); won it in 2009. Check the stats over the five year period and come back and post an intelligent response.

Except the last Steelers WR to be named an All-Pro was Hines Ward in 2004. Nobody has done it since. The 2012 All-Pro WRs are Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall, A.J. Green and Andre Johnson.

Antonio Brown has 2,062 receiving yards and seven TD receptions in the last three seasons. That's an average of 687.3 yards and 2.3 TD receptions per season. Mike Wallace has 4,042 receiving yards and 32 TD passes in the last four seasons. That's an average of 1,010.5 yards and eight TD receptions per season.

Wallace has had two 1,000-yard receiving seasons in his first four (2010, 2011), and Brown has had one 1,000-yard receiving season in his first three (2011). Neither one had 1,000 receiving yards last season, and the most in a season by either is 1,257 by Wallace in 2010. As far as TDs go, the most by either in a season has been 10, again by Wallace in 2010.

Hines Ward had 3,346 yards and 20 TD receptions in his final four seasons. That's an average of 836.5 yards and five TD receptions per season. Santonio Holmes had 2,069 receiving yards and 10 TD receptions in his last two seasons with the Steelers. That's an average of 1,034.5 yards and five TD receptions per season. Only one of those last two seasons (2009) was a 1,000-yard season for him.

None of the above are All-Pro numbers.


Some of you said that Arians offense sucked, yet you expect the wrs to be great, then we get the dink and dunk which produced about 1000 less yards that his teams did, again its the wrs fault.

Arians' offense sucked because it never took into account the strengths and weaknesses of the different units of the offense. The offensive line has been mediocre at best for five years, but Arians never adjusted. And the fact that Colts fans complained about Andrew Luck taking a lot of unnecessary abuse illustrates that this ain't a Roethlisberger problem; it's an Arians problem. Ain't many branches less than 10 yards downfield on his route trees.

Hines Ward blames the WRs (http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/hines_ward_blames_steelers_receivers_for_missing_p layoffs/12772771) too. That means he agrees with me and disagrees with you.


When it comes to Ben's failures, its, you guessed it the wrs fault yet again and of course the Oline. Football is a TEAM sport.

Absolutely. Give a great QB mediocre weapons and protection, and his passer rating will never get out of the 90's from one season to the next.


Miss me with the stupid shit man.

I see you're from Georgia too. With any luck, we'll never cross paths.

teegre
02-05-2013, 11:32 PM
OP Hell of a post!!! Kudos to you, sir. Damn... what a post.

(Mods, I submit that for post-of-the-week).

Riddle_Of_Steel
02-05-2013, 11:43 PM
Except the last Steelers WR to be named an All-Pro was Hines Ward in 2004. Nobody has done it since. The 2012 All-Pro WRs are Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall, A.J. Green and Andre Johnson.

Being named an "All-pro" is like going to the Probowl-- it is a popularity contest often won on reputation alone. Being an All-Pro is not bad-- but it is hardly debate fodder or evidence.

Antonio Brown has 2,062 receiving yards and seven TD receptions in the last three seasons.

He also earned the honor of being the first to rack up 1000 yards receiving and on kick returns. Other than a few bad plays this season, Brown has been electrifying and worth every penny they gave him.

If you recall, Holmes did far less in his first two seasons. it took him until 2007 to finally start showing his playmaking ability.

That's an average of 687.3 yards and 2.3 TD receptions per season.

If they don't throw the ball his direction, I don't see how he is supposed to earn fantasy stats. I think it is safe to say Mike Wallace took a lot of touches away from more worthy receviers this season.

Mike Wallace has 4,042 receiving yards and 32 TD passes in the last four seasons. That's an average of 1,010.5 yards and eight TD receptions per season.

Which are not bad numbers. Not worth the $15 million he wanted, but not the disaster you are trying to make them out to be.

Hines Ward had 3,346 yards and 20 TD receptions in his final four seasons. That's an average of 836.5 yards and five TD receptions per season. Santonio Holmes had 2,069 receiving yards and 10 TD receptions in his last two seasons with the Steelers. That's an average of 1,034.5 yards and five TD receptions per season. Only one of those last two seasons (2009) was a 1,000-yard season for him.

LOL. You are comparing Ward's last 4 seasons to the other guys' first 3? Why does that not seem like a fair or logical comparison to me?

Wouldn't it make more sense to compare Ward's first 4 years to the first 4 years of our current receivers? Ward's numbers his first three seasons were nothing to write home about either. People were calling him a bust in 1999.

Absolutely. Give a great QB mediocre weapons and protection, and his passer rating will never get out of the 90's from one season to the next.

Comedy. Big Ben took us to and won SB XL with the likes of Nate Washington (stone hands), Cedric WIlson (wife beater who finished the year with less than 600 yards), and Willie Reid (who?).

Going forward, I am thinking that Antonio Brown, Sanders, Cotchery and whomever they get to replace Wallace form a pretty solid WR corps.

desertsteel
02-06-2013, 12:01 AM
Bronco fans don't treat their QBs like shit the way Steeler fans do. Bronco fans loved Tim Tebow. Steeler fans hated Terry Bradshaw.I don't think you know what you're talking about. Tebow was an anomaly.

Gnutella
02-06-2013, 12:18 AM
I don't think you know what you're talking about. Tebow was an anomaly.

Doesn't change the fact that Steeler fans treat their QBs like shit. If Terry Bradshaw didn't feel welcome in Pittsburgh until five years ago, then that speaks very poorly of us.

Gnutella
02-06-2013, 12:30 AM
Being named an "All-pro" is like going to the Probowl-- it is a popularity contest often won on reputation alone. Being an All-Pro is not bad-- but it is hardly debate fodder or evidence.

Well he said our WRs were "All-Pro," which they weren't. Now who's bullshitting whom?


He also earned the honor of being the first to rack up 1000 yards receiving and on kick returns. Other than a few bad plays this season, Brown has been electrifying and worth every penny they gave him.

Roethlisberger only had a few bad plays this season, but that hasn't stopped people from shitting on him anyway.


If you recall, Holmes did far less in his first two seasons. it took him until 2007 to finally start showing his playmaking ability.

That's fine; it doesn't change the fact that he hasn't had a 1,000-yard receiving season since he left the Steelers. What a coincidence.


Which are not bad numbers. Not worth the $15 million he wanted, but not the disaster you are trying to make them out to be.

I never said he was a disaster, just overrated. He really is not as good as people say he is. He loses focus too easily; he never fights for the ball, and he's still a sloppy route-runner at times. Mike Tomlin didn't call him a "one-trick pony" for nothing.


LOL. You are comparing Ward's last 4 seasons to the other guys' first 3? Why does that not seem like a fair or logical comparison to me?

I was asked to look at the WRs' statistics over the last five seasons. That period of time coincides with Hines Ward's last four. I was only doing what I was told.


Comedy. Big Ben took us to and won SB XL with the likes of Nate Washington (stone hands), Cedric WIlson (wife beater who finished the year with less than 600 yards), and Willie Reid (who?).

Willie Reid was drafted in 2006, and, thus, was not with the team en route to Super Bowl XL. Roethlisberger also had a much better offensive line and running game at the time, which catered to one of his strengths: his play-action passing is lethal. It can't be lethal if nobody respects the run, and nobody has respected the run in the last five years.


Going forward, I am thinking that Antonio Brown, Sanders, Cotchery and whomever they get to replace Wallace form a pretty solid WR corps.

They still need a tall, physical WR for a change. Emmanuel Sanders is a perennial slot WR, and neither he nor Antonio Brown can beat press coverage reliably.

kan_t
02-06-2013, 12:37 AM
Being named an "All-pro" is like going to the Probowl-- it is a popularity contest often won on reputation alone. Being an All-Pro is not bad-- but it is hardly debate fodder or evidence.

I think "All-Pro" is much more crediable than "Pro Bowl". Unlike a popularity contest like "Pro Bowl", "All-Pro" gets it right most of the time.

Bayz101
02-06-2013, 12:58 AM
Nice post. It was a great read.

Oh, and....Ben haters incoming. :chuckle:

lloydwoodson
02-06-2013, 03:18 AM
Elway was not a great quarterback. Elway was an average quarterback who had a lot of game-winning drives.

Elway did come through in the clutch some of the time. Elway also played like complete garbage in many of the biggest games of his career.

Let's not look at his record setting abyssmal performances in the postseason because there are so many to look at we'd be here forever.

Let's look at what he did in the 98 and 99 Superbowl runs.

Elway threw 6 tds and 3 ints in 7 games. Meanwhile Terrell Davis ran for 11 tds over the same period of time. Terrell Davis ran for more than 100 yards in all 7 games.

Should Elway have won in 98? His stat line of 123 yards 0 tds and 1 ints would say no. But Terrell Davis' stat line of 157 yards and 3 tds said yes.

It is ironic to see people praising Shanahan's open offense as the reason Elway had success under him- when the actual reason that Elway and the Broncos were successful is that TD ran the ball 30 times per game and did it very well.

John Elway... 59th rated passer all-time... on every homer's top 5 list!!! Truly one of the greats!!!

Elway had 2 Probowl WRs, a HOF TE and a HOF RB when he won his Superbowls and all I ever hear is Elway didn't have anyone to throw to. Guess what? As soon as Brian Griese took over Elway's receivers looked amazing. Too bad TD was through due to injury or the Broncos would have had another Superbowl win and I could hear how great Brian Griese was. Brian Griese is the higher rated passer after all.

Broncos homers are the exact same as Steelers homers. Point taken.

zcoop
02-06-2013, 06:35 PM
OK, sure...

Except the last Steelers WR to be named an All-Pro was Hines Ward in 2004. Nobody has done it since. The 2012 All-Pro WRs are Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall, A.J. Green and Andre Johnson.


I stand corrected in the All-Pro comment (see I can admit when I mis-type) that should have been Pro Bowlers. Matter of fact only Pouncey (on the offensive side) has made All-Pro recently. Wallace, Ben and Brown were Pro Bowlers in 2011.

Ben Roethlisberger has had the worst weapons of any top-tier QB in the NFL in the last five years. The offensive line and RBs have been mediocre if not downright bad, and the WRs have been overrated. Heath Miller and Maurkice Pouncey have literally been the only other players on offense who have been consistently good.

Still waiting on you to back up that original post but I will respond to some of what you last posted.

Ben has not had the worst weapons on any top-tier QBs in the NFL the last five years. Who are the top-tiered QBs and their teams you have in mind?

Remember we have two SB appearances in the last five years, won one and should have won the other one if we didnít turn the ball over. Iím sure you can recall the fumbles and the pics that cost us that one. We've won quite a few games with a lack of weapons on the offensive side of the ball, haven't we? :noidea:

And about crossing paths, the feelingís mutual.

nikstar
02-07-2013, 01:10 AM
Elway was not a great quarterback. Elway was an average quarterback who had a lot of game-winning drives.



Aren't game winning drives what it's all about? Any team can keep it close, but having that player who can win the game is what makes them great.

Without Ben's 2008 Superbowl winning drive we would still be waiting for "one for the other hand".

Sadly it seems Ben may have lost his touch for the game winning drive. A few times this past season he had the ball in his hands, on the field for the winning score and threw a pick or had a failed drive. Hopefully he regains this magic and with a little help from the hurry-up offense once again becomes the last minute killer I know and love.

Isn't Elway Big Ben's Idol? The reason he wears number 7? Let's hope he's not satisfied with the same about of Superbowls.

lloydwoodson
02-07-2013, 03:40 AM
Aren't game winning drives what it's all about? Any team can keep it close, but having that player who can win the game is what makes them great.

Without Ben's 2008 Superbowl winning drive we would still be waiting for "one for the other hand".

Isn't Elway Big Ben's Idol? The reason he wears number 7? Let's hope he's not satisfied with the same about of Superbowls.

Winning games is what is all about. I think Steeler Nation would enjoy a few Sundays next year with a solid lead in the 4th quarter. Vinny Testaverde is 7th all-time in 4th QTR comebacks but I don't think many people would have him rated as the 7th best quarterback.

Ben had to throw a Superbowl touchdown sooner or later it's just part of the game. Hard to imagine a player of his caliber being shut out in back to back Superbowls. He just squeaked in under the wire.

Let's hope the Steelers draft the next Terrell Davis in round 6 this year.

Gnutella
02-07-2013, 04:33 AM
Ben had to throw a Superbowl touchdown sooner or later it's just part of the game. Hard to imagine a player of his caliber being shut out in back to back Superbowls.

Fran Tarkenton was. He didn't throw a TD pass until his third Super Bowl.

lloydwoodson
02-07-2013, 05:05 AM
Fran Tarkenton was. He didn't throw a TD pass until his third Super Bowl.

Fran Tarkenton was terrible in the postseason (career 58 rating). And his first two Superbowls were against the 73 Dolphins who allowed 10.7 ppg and the 75 Steelers who allowed 13.8 ppg.

I bet Fran wishes he had played against the 05 Seahawks who allowed 16.9 ppg and especially the 08 Cardinals who allowed 26.6 ppg. I bet old Fran could have got one against the 08 Cardinals even if it took him 59 minutes.

I bet he wishes his name wasn't Fran too.

EbonySteel86
02-07-2013, 12:04 PM
This is why Ben needs an above average to excellent running game. He must have this for the back nine of his career. Teams with good running games are winning SB now a days. Flinging it all over the place is only gonna get you a pro bowl appearance.

maddog78
02-08-2013, 07:10 AM
Let's also not forget that for years he had to survive in Dan Reeve's offensive philosophy. Run the ball and play defense. Then, when everything else fails, go out and win the game for us.....sound familiar?


Yep, and Ben's played for two coaches who don't know jack about offensive football. Would love to see Ben with a guy like Shanny.

FrancoLambert
02-08-2013, 01:57 PM
"Ben is or isn't Flacco."

"Ben is our Elway."

Stop the comparisons......Ben is Ben.
You take the good with the bad, the incredible with the exasperating.
He's here to stay.
Could we do better? Maybe.
Could we do worse? Certainly.

lloydwoodson
02-08-2013, 02:11 PM
Ben is better than Elway. Flacco has been playing better than Ben. The end.

I am going to make a new thread about Ben because those are the only ones that get responses. I will probably call it "Is Ben Gay?" or "Ben Pees Sitting Down."

Then all the little Ben groupies will lash out for me having disparaged their idol. Probably someone will make a post called "Roethlisberger is our Montana" or "Roethlisberger is the best ever."

teegre
02-08-2013, 03:01 PM
Ben is better than Elway. Flacco has been playing better than Ben. The end.

I am going to make a new thread about Ben because those are the only ones that get responses. I will probably call it "Is Ben Gay?" or "Ben Pees Sitting Down."

A thread like that, created by you, certainly would be par for the course.

SteelersCanada
02-08-2013, 03:35 PM
So, Joe Flacco is better than John Elway? People have been put down for saying smarter things than that. Good thing you don't live in Texas.

harrison'samonster
02-08-2013, 03:49 PM
coincidentally, John Elway ended an argument he had with Peyton Manning over who was the better Broncos QB. Elway pointed out that he was Denver's Ben Roethlisberger. Then he smacked Peyton in his giant thumb-shaped head.

lloydwoodson
02-08-2013, 09:09 PM
If 2013 is Peyton's last year do you guys think there is a chance that we could trade Ben for Elway and a 1st round pick in 2014?

pczach
02-09-2013, 12:38 PM
If 2013 is Peyton's last year do you guys think there is a chance that we could trade Ben for Elway and a 1st round pick in 2014?

I think Denver would take that deal in a heartbeat.

scottcurtis
02-09-2013, 02:34 PM
I think Denver would take that deal in a heartbeat.

Yeah right ! The steelers couldnt be that lucky ! The broncos beat the steelers with TEBOW ! Ben threw a pick to end the opener in denver, just like he ended the season throwing a pick in the cincy game. they wouldnt touch ben with a ten foot pole !

pczach
02-09-2013, 04:26 PM
Yeah right ! The steelers couldnt be that lucky ! The broncos beat the steelers with TEBOW ! Ben threw a pick to end the opener in denver, just like he ended the season throwing a pick in the cincy game. they wouldnt touch ben with a ten foot pole !

Let's put Manning's damaged neck behind our offensive line and see how long his career lasts. By the way, we always beat the Ravens with Ben in the playoffs. Manning couldn't do it with home field advantage at a mile above sea level. Oh yeah, Manning ended their season with a pick deep in their own territory. Nice try. Wanna play some more?

MasterOfPuppets
02-09-2013, 04:38 PM
Nice post. It was a great read.

Oh, and....Ben haters incoming. :chuckle:

http://beyondthepulpitmabc.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/barney20fife.jpg

pczach
02-09-2013, 04:53 PM
http://beyondthepulpitmabc.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/barney20fife.jpg

Barney has spoken! :chuckle:

GoFor7
02-09-2013, 05:27 PM
Of course, as we all know, Elway's best days were yet to come, and he became a better and more consistent QB during his last six seasons in the league than he was during his first 10 seasons. The Broncos gave him a stellar offensive line and an excellent running game, which brought out the best in him. Nobody tried to discredit him for having such a good supporting cast either, nor did anybody question his greatness despite a poor stat line when he finally won his first Super Bowl.

That's not quite accurate. Like the Steelers tried to do with Ben in 2012, Reeves made Elway the #2 option and tried to run into a brick wall for the majority of the game. They had the whole "we have to establish balance blah blah blah" mantra. When that didn't work and there was less then 2 minutes in the game, "JOHN HELP!"

Eventually, instead of hoping Elway could put on the superman cape and bail the team out in the last two minutes, the Broncos started to use him earlier and more often in the game. Maybe the Steelers will catch on someday and play modern football.

lloydwoodson
02-09-2013, 05:35 PM
That's not quite accurate. Like the Steelers tried to do with Ben in 2012, Reeves made Elway the #2 option and tried to run into a brick wall for the majority of the game. They had the whole "we have to establish balance blah blah blah" mantra. When that didn't work and there was less then 2 minutes in the game, "JOHN HELP!"

Eventually, instead of hoping Elway could put on the superman cape and bail the team out in the last two minutes, the Broncos started to use him earlier and more often in the game. Maybe the Steelers will catch on someday and play modern football.

That's not quite accurate.

Terrell Davis ran 392 and 369 times in the 97 and 98 regular season. TD ran 27 times per game in the postseasons when Elway finally won his championships. That would equate to 432 carries over a regular season which would be an NFL record. The Broncos won those championships because TD ran his ass off. Put that man in the Hall of Fame!

It was a lot more like "Terrell help!"

Without TD Elway is ringless. Period.

scottcurtis
02-09-2013, 05:47 PM
Let's put Manning's damaged neck behind our offensive line and see how long his career lasts. By the way, we always beat the Ravens with Ben in the playoffs. Manning couldn't do it with home field advantage at a mile above sea level. Oh yeah, Manning ended their season with a pick deep in their own territory. Nice try. Wanna play some more?

IM SO SICK OF THAT LAME EXCUSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Probably a bit better than Charlie batch did when he beat the SUPER BOWL CHAMPION RAVENS this year !!!! That argument is INVALID !

pczach
02-09-2013, 06:08 PM
IM SO SICK OF THAT LAME EXCUSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Probably a bit better than Charlie batch did when he beat the SUPER BOWL CHAMPION RAVENS this year !!!! That argument is INVALID !

The same team went further with Tebow last year. Got anything else that makes sense?

lloydwoodson
02-09-2013, 06:37 PM
The same team went further with Tebow last year. Got anything else that makes sense?

I agree with you on Manning's failure but you have to also give credit to Flacco for beating Manning and Brady when both of those future Hall of Famers were playing at home. I don't see a scenario where Tebow gets past Flacco. Flacco is too clutch in the playoffs. Flacco should have gone to the Superbowl last year but Evans had that pass knocked from his hand in the end zone and Cundiff failed miserably. Flacco outplayed Brady in back to back years in New England.

Blacksburg Zach
02-09-2013, 06:50 PM
The same team went further with Tebow last year. Got anything else that makes sense?

The team did not go further with Tebow. Both teams went to the divisional round of the playoffs.

scottcurtis
02-09-2013, 09:59 PM
The team did not go further with Tebow. Both teams went to the divisional round of the playoffs.

Exactly !

Blacksburg Zach
02-09-2013, 10:15 PM
IM SO SICK OF THAT LAME EXCUSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Probably a bit better than Charlie batch did when he beat the SUPER BOWL CHAMPION RAVENS this year !!!! That argument is INVALID !

Charlie Batch did not beat the Ravens. The Pittsburgh Steelers beat the Baltimore Ravens. Quarterbacks do not beat teams by themselves.

SteelersCanada
02-09-2013, 10:18 PM
Charlie Batch did not beat the Ravens. The Pittsburgh Steelers beat the Baltimore Ravens. Quarterbacks do not beat teams by themselves.

Tell that to the Patriots over the last decade. The New England Tom Brady's are a pretty good team.

Blacksburg Zach
02-09-2013, 10:23 PM
Tell that to the Patriots over the last decade. The New England Tom Brady's are a pretty good team.

Tom Brady still needs an offensive line to block for him, receivers to catch his passes, and a running back that he can give the ball to on occasion. Also, he needs a defense that makes enough stops for the Patriots to win most of their games and a kicker to make field goals in close games. Tom Brady absolutely plays the most significant role in most of the Patriots' wins, but he doesn't beat teams all on his own, and neither does any other NFL player.

scottcurtis
02-10-2013, 01:54 AM
Charlie Batch did not beat the Ravens. The Pittsburgh Steelers beat the Baltimore Ravens. Quarterbacks do not beat teams by themselves.

Tell that to all the Ben apologist's here.

pczach
02-10-2013, 08:01 AM
Tell that to all the Ben apologist's here.

Look. Anybody that knows anything about football understands you need a team around you to succeed. I'm messing with you because all you ever post is anti-Roethlisberger tripe. I've looked at your posting history, and that has been the subject of every post you have made that I read. That is not the work of a true Steeler fan. That is an agenda. I don't know why a fan that supposedly wants his team to win would come to a message board and only talk about one player on that team, and nothing else. If you did, you would have much more credibility with me. There are others members here that I disagree with on Big Ben, and go back and forth in posts, but I agree or disagree with them on many other topics in this forum. That I can respect. Someone that just beats a drum on one thing seems shallow and that there is an undisclosed reason for it. It doesn't come across as being a fan in any shape, matter, or form.

pczach
02-10-2013, 08:14 AM
I agree with you on Manning's failure but you have to also give credit to Flacco for beating Manning and Brady when both of those future Hall of Famers were playing at home. I don't see a scenario where Tebow gets past Flacco. Flacco is too clutch in the playoffs. Flacco should have gone to the Superbowl last year but Evans had that pass knocked from his hand in the end zone and Cundiff failed miserably. Flacco outplayed Brady in back to back years in New England.

I wasn't talking about Flacco, but I think Flacco played fantastic this post season. Your right, he's been playing much better when it matters for the Ravens. That's what makes Ben's record against him so impressive, particularly in the playoffs. He has always outplayed Flacco when they go head-to-head. It impresses you when Flacco outplays Brady, but not when Ben outplays Flacco? That's what is so hard to understand sometimes when you're talking about Roethlisberger. Doesn't that just show how formidable he's been in the post season?

steelfury02
02-10-2013, 08:44 AM
"You're not a Steeler fan 'cause you said :blah:" or "I'm a bigger fan than you :blah:"

Ben is a top 5-10 QB in the league. Maybe he was in top 3 discussion following XLIII and his legacy has taken a little hit since then. So has Brady's and Manning's.

Ben has a wide ranging skill set that no other QB has - he has shown flashes of becoming just as efficient as Brady - without the great O-line and with the ability to still make a play once his pocket collapses. He isn't outside of criticism either - nor are his supporting cast that have been really lacking in the big games that expand the season or send them packing. \

Ben took the "almost but note quite" Steelers franchise and put them over the top. Before he retires, he'll at least get us 2-3 more legit shots at #7.

Quit comparing sizes and get back to some real arguing already :flap:

Blacksburg Zach
02-10-2013, 11:18 AM
I agree with you on Manning's failure but you have to also give credit to Flacco for beating Manning and Brady when both of those future Hall of Famers were playing at home. I don't see a scenario where Tebow gets past Flacco. Flacco is too clutch in the playoffs. Flacco should have gone to the Superbowl last year but Evans had that pass knocked from his hand in the end zone and Cundiff failed miserably. Flacco outplayed Brady in back to back years in New England.

Flacco did not beat Manning and Brady. The Baltimore Ravens beat the Denver Broncos and the New England Patriots. Flacco did outplay both these quarterbacks, but Flacco and the rest of his offense beat their defenses, not the quarterbacks themselves.

scottcurtis
02-10-2013, 08:19 PM
Look. Anybody that knows anything about football understands you need a team around you to succeed. I'm messing with you because all you ever post is anti-Roethlisberger tripe. I've looked at your posting history, and that has been the subject of every post you have made that I read. That is not the work of a true Steeler fan. That is an agenda. I don't know why a fan that supposedly wants his team to win would come to a message board and only talk about one player on that team, and nothing else. If you did, you would have much more credibility with me. There are others members here that I disagree with on Big Ben, and go back and forth in posts, but I agree or disagree with them on many other topics in this forum. That I can respect. Someone that just beats a drum on one thing seems shallow and that there is an undisclosed reason for it. It doesn't come across as being a fan in any shape, matter, or form.

Oh your a TRUE Steelers fan cuz you LOVE BEN... well guess what come down on the Motorhome we take to every home game, pay $200 to just park the friggin thing, pay the $3500 i pay every year for my season tickets and the $300 in food , booze and beer we put out.... Just cause I dont swing from BENS BALLS like you or others here do doesnt mean Im not to a Steelers FAN. I just dont like BEN. PERIOD. He is a PHONY, not worth what hes getting paid. This offense sucks with HIM. He has ZERO character on and OFF the field. ZIP,NONE,NADA !!!!

lloydwoodson
02-11-2013, 01:33 AM
Oh your a TRUE Steelers fan cuz you LOVE BEN... well guess what come down on the Motorhome we take to every home game, pay $200 to just park the friggin thing, pay the $3500 i pay every year for my season tickets and the $300 in food , booze and beer we put out.... Just cause I dont swing from BENS BALLS like you or others here do doesnt mean Im not to a Steelers FAN. I just dont like BEN. PERIOD. He is a PHONY, not worth what hes getting paid. This offense sucks with HIM. He has ZERO character on and OFF the field. ZIP,NONE,NADA !!!!

I thought that this was a really good post. Very unique take on the quarterback situation.

I have to agree that Ben is very overrated. 9 seasons running an offense that has been arguably a top 10 offense once or twice and never approached, sniffed or hinted at the possibility of becoming dominant.

The part that bothers me is the same as you... the constant barrage from the nuthuggers who will spit on every Steeler player in the team's history to build Ben up, and ridicule any Steelers fan who doesn't believe in Ben.

Enjoy the games next year!

scottcurtis
02-11-2013, 02:10 AM
I thought that this was a really good post. Very unique take on the quarterback situation.

I have to agree that Ben is very overrated. 9 seasons running an offense that has been arguably a top 10 offense once or twice and never approached, sniffed or hinted at the possibility of becoming dominant.

The part that bothers me is the same as you... the constant barrage from the nuthuggers who will spit on every Steeler player in the team's history to build Ben up, and ridicule any Steelers fan who doesn't believe in Ben.

Enjoy the games next year!.

Thanks will do !

Gnutella
02-11-2013, 08:15 AM
Oh your a TRUE Steelers fan cuz you LOVE BEN... well guess what come down on the Motorhome we take to every home game, pay $200 to just park the friggin thing, pay the $3500 i pay every year for my season tickets and the $300 in food , booze and beer we put out....

A little less money spent on booze, a little less brain damage.


Just cause I dont swing from BENS BALLS like you or others here do doesnt mean Im not to a Steelers FAN. I just dont like BEN. PERIOD. He is a PHONY, not worth what hes getting paid.

The Rooney family disagrees. Maybe you should take it up with them.

By the way, all those other players that the rest of us "throw under the bus"...well, Rashard Mendenhall and Mike Wallace aren't welcome back, and Todd Haley's philosophy means Max Starks, Willie Colon and Ramon Foster are all more than likely gone. That's five starters on the offense from this past season -- nearly half the starting offense -- who the coaches and executives consider poor fits for the team going forward, and we're supposed to believe the root of the problems on offense is the QB?

If anything, these moves simply reaffirm what I've been saying that Roethlisberger has the worst weapons of any top-tier (yes, kiss my ass, eat shit, fuck you, top-tier) QB in the NFL. I don't see any other team with a top QB getting ready to dump nearly half their starting lineup on offense this off-season.

By the way, all the money you spend, and your avatar of the Steelers logo surrounded by the old Iron City logo, don't make you the least bit credible in your opinions. You're just as phony as you think Roethlisberger is. Go fuck yourself.

steelfury02
02-11-2013, 08:54 AM
Just saw the ticker on NFL AM- not shocking, but Colon expected to be released soon - probably just another slow day at the office and just a rehash of old news

Secondly - I'll just make a brief assessment before I gotta go - I think we all forget that just about every team goes through a period of change. In the modern NFL winning 2 SBs and making another appearance is pretty huge with the same group of guys. That time has come to an end - its painful, and we could be going through another sub par year - but, have faith - I truly believe we'll at least see an improvement from last season and who knows - could get that much better.

Humble pie plus change is just what this team needs at this stage. Refocus and enough of the bashing already. I'd personally (cause you all care so much :chuckle:) like to see more discussions around how we can squeeze the most out of Ben's last 5-6 years here. I really believe we have 2 to 3 more legit shots at 7 with him.

scottcurtis
02-11-2013, 11:53 AM
I thought that this was a really good post. Very unique take on the quarterback situation.

I have to agree that Ben is very overrated. 9 seasons running an offense that has been arguably a top 10 offense once or twice and never approached, sniffed or hinted at the possibility of becoming dominant.

The part that bothers me is the same as you... the constant barrage from the nuthuggers who will spit on every Steeler player in the team's history to build Ben up, and ridicule any Steelers fan who doesn't believe in Ben.

Enjoy the games next year!

A little less money spent on booze, a little less brain damage.
LOL bitches will always be bitches !!! !:drink:



The Rooney family disagrees. Maybe you should take it up with them.

By the way, all those other players that the rest of us "throw under the bus"...well, Rashard Mendenhall and Mike Wallace aren't welcome back, and Todd Haley's philosophy means Max Starks, Willie Colon and Ramon Foster are all more than likely gone. That's five starters on the offense from this past season -- nearly half the starting offense -- who the coaches and executives consider poor fits for the team going forward, and we're supposed to believe the root of the problems on offense is the QB?

If anything, these moves simply reaffirm what I've been saying that Roethlisberger has the worst weapons of any top-tier (yes, kiss my ass, eat shit, fuck you, top-tier) QB in the NFL. I don't see any other team with a top QB getting ready to dump nearly half their starting lineup on offense this off-season.

By the way, all the money you spend, and your avatar of the Steelers logo surrounded by the old Iron City logo, don't make you the least bit credible in your opinions. You're just as phony as you think Roethlisberger is. Go fuck yourself.

Bitches will always be Bitches....:drink: right back at yeah Benlover.

steeltheone
02-11-2013, 12:05 PM
I'm a BR7 fan, but he is no where close to being as " clutch " as John Elway...That's not a knock, i'm not sure anyone is.

SteelersCanada
02-11-2013, 01:04 PM
Bitches will always be Bitches....:drink: right back at yeah Benlover.

Liking Ben Roethlisberger is now an insult?

I don't even know how to answer this.

Blacksburg Zach
02-11-2013, 01:04 PM
I'm a BR7 fan, but he is no where close to being as " clutch " as John Elway...That's not a knock, i'm not sure anyone is.

Joe Montana?

pczach
02-11-2013, 03:18 PM
Oh your a TRUE Steelers fan cuz you LOVE BEN... well guess what come down on the Motorhome we take to every home game, pay $200 to just park the friggin thing, pay the $3500 i pay every year for my season tickets and the $300 in food , booze and beer we put out.... Just cause I dont swing from BENS BALLS like you or others here do doesnt mean Im not to a Steelers FAN. I just dont like BEN. PERIOD. He is a PHONY, not worth what hes getting paid. This offense sucks with HIM. He has ZERO character on and OFF the field. ZIP,NONE,NADA !!!!

You don't sound like a fan at all when you post. What don't you get about that? If you're such a great fan, why don't you comment on ANYTHING other than "Big Ben sucks"? How do you like the O-line? How would you rate the WR? What should be done at the ILB position? I don't hear you commenting on anything other than what is being discussed here. I'm not saying I'm a better fan than you because you hate Roethlisberger. I'm saying you don't sound like a fan......period, because you never talk about any other aspect of the team. Get it now?

Nut hugging.....swinging from Bens balls......:doh:

99% of NFL people think he's great. A handfull of you think he sucks. HHHHMMMMMM.....what should I believe???? Yeah, you're right. You've got it all figured out. Enjoy your season tickets and all that great football info you absorb at the game.:toofunny:

scottcurtis
02-11-2013, 03:25 PM
You don't sound like a fan at all when you post. What don't you get about that? If you're such a great fan, why don't you comment on ANYTHING other than "Big Ben sucks"? How do you like the O-line? How would you rate the WR? What should be done at the ILB position? I don't hear you commenting on anything other than what is being discussed here. I'm not saying I'm a better fan than you because you hate Roethlisberger. I'm saying you don't sound like a fan......period, because you never talk about any other aspect of the team. Get it now?

Nut hugging.....swinging from Bens balls......:doh:

99% of NFL people think he's great. A handfull of you think he sucks. HHHHMMMMMM.....what should I believe???? Yeah, you're right. You've got it all figured out. Enjoy your season tickets and all that great football info you absorb at the game.:toofunny:
Wallace would have 20 + TD per year withe brady or brees. No Doubt.

pczach
02-11-2013, 03:33 PM
Wallace would have 20 + TD per year withe brady or brees. No Doubt.

I defer to the obvious expert that you are.

scottcurtis
02-11-2013, 03:38 PM
I defer to the obvious expert that you are.

good you've learned your place .

Gnutella
02-11-2013, 04:03 PM
Bitches will always be Bitches....:drink: right back at yeah Benlover.

Yinzers will always be yinzers.


Liking Ben Roethlisberger is now an insult?

I don't even know how to answer this.

"Ben lover" is the new "n____r lover," apparently.

pczach
02-11-2013, 04:11 PM
Everyone goes gaga over Brady and New England scoring all those points. What the Ben sucks crowd never seems to mention is that New England led the NFL in rushing touchdowns last year with 25 TD's. The Steelers had 8. What do you think the Steelers record would have been with 17 more rushing touchdowns? Here's the rushing breakdown by team.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2012&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Go

tony hipchest
02-11-2013, 05:01 PM
By the way, all the money you spend, and your avatar of the Steelers logo surrounded by the old Iron City logo, don't make you the least bit credible in your opinions. You're just as phony as you think Roethlisberger is. Go fuck yourself.

Bitches will always be Bitches....:drink: right back at yeah Benlover.

lets all just watch our tone and cool it...

thanks.

Neil-Still-Rules-14
02-11-2013, 05:12 PM
Wallace would have 20 + TD per year withe brady or brees. No Doubt.

You do realize only two receivers in NFL history have caught 20+ TDs in a season, right? Not to mention those two happen to be probably the two best receivers ever (Rice and Moss).

zcoop
02-11-2013, 05:35 PM
Yinzers will always be yinzers.




"Ben lover" is the new "n____r lover," apparently.

Whoa, slow your roll playa, don't make this a race thing using "n______r", that shit ain't cool. Stick to the subject and argue your point.

OX1947
02-11-2013, 06:19 PM
You do realize only two receivers in NFL history have caught 20+ TDs in a season, right? Not to mention those two happen to be probably the two best receivers ever (Rice and Moss).

hahahahahahahaha. The overvalue of a chump like Mike Wallace is hilarious. When are some of you going to stop basing your infatuation with his balls, with stats. The guy turned into a little girl in the middle of last year when he realized the Steelers were gonna make him earn it a little longer. And since then, he played scared, weak and unworthy of playing real football. If he wants to go play for loser teams like the Stains and Porpoise or even that overrun Spygate team, go ahead. He will pull the same shit with them the moment they say something to the public about him playing like Randy Moss half the time.

lloydwoodson
02-12-2013, 03:19 AM
You do realize only two receivers in NFL history have caught 20+ TDs in a season, right? Not to mention those two happen to be probably the two best receivers ever (Rice and Moss).

To me Don Hutson is the only receiver that is arguably better than Jerry Rice. I am not talking about ability - Randy Moss had probably the most ability out of anyone. Don Hutson led the league in touchdowns 8 times which is still an NFL record. Hutson's best season was 1942 when he scored 17 TD in just 11 games. He also had 74 catches for 1211 yards.

To put it in perspective the second most catches was 27 and the next most yards was 571.

Oh and I forgot Mike Wallace is the greatest receiver ever cause he's super duper fast.

lloydwoodson
02-12-2013, 03:34 AM
Originally Posted by steeltheone
I'm a BR7 fan, but he is no where close to being as " clutch " as John Elway...That's not a knock, i'm not sure anyone is.

Joe Montana?

Terry Bradshaw? I think a QB who's absolute worst rating in 4 superbowls is 101 is very clutch.

Not to mention Bradshaw is tied with Montana for most consecutive playoff games with 2 or more TD passes with 7.

No player has ever stepped up his regular season play for the playoffs more than Bradshaw.

Elway's claim to fame? Beating the Browns in the AFC Championship only to lose to the Redskins 42-10 and finish with a rating of 36. The drive! The drive! Show me some highlights of his 3 interception Superbowl blowout please NFL Network- that's what he won with "The Drive."

Elway lost 3 Superbowls by 19 or more points (4 in total) before TD came along. There is no Elway "legacy" without TD. Period.

Gnutella
02-12-2013, 05:00 AM
Whoa, slow your roll playa, don't make this a race thing using "n______r", that shit ain't cool. Stick to the subject and argue your point.

I should have clarified. What I meant when I made that comparison is that "Ben lover" is considered an insult by rotten, hateful people who are offended that other people have no problem with the people who they have a vehement hatred for. Because it really makes no sense to insult people for reasons like that.

lloydwoodson
02-12-2013, 07:36 AM
I should have clarified. What I meant when I made that comparison is that "Ben lover" is considered an insult by rotten, hateful people who are offended that other people have no problem with the people who they have a vehement hatred for. Because it really makes no sense to insult people for reasons like that.

The term "Ben lover" has about as much to do with racism as the term "Ben nuthugger" or "Ben apologist" which is to say- absolutely nothing. You are actually the one using social stigma and pressure to force scottcurtis to conform to your views the same way racists originally used the "lover" term to force people to conform to theirs.

Scottcurtis does not like Roethlisberger because of the way he has conducted himself on and off the field. That is his opinion. He should be more careful to voice his criticism constrcuctively rather than just proselytizing people into hating Roethlisberger. However, scottcurtis has chosen to dislike Roethlisberger on the basis of Ben's own actions. He does not hold Roethlisberger's race, religion, creed or some other quality out of Roethlisberger's control against him as far as we know, and that completely seperates him from the ignorant tripe associated with racist ideologies.

scottcurtis
02-12-2013, 07:52 AM
hahahahahahahaha. The overvalue of a chump like Mike Wallace is hilarious. When are some of you going to stop basing your infatuation with his balls, with stats. The guy turned into a little girl in the middle of last year when he realized the Steelers were gonna make him earn it a little longer. And since then, he played scared, weak and unworthy of playing real football. If he wants to go play for loser teams like the Stains and Porpoise or even that overrun Spygate team, go ahead. He will pull the same shit with them the moment they say something to the public about him playing like Randy Moss half the time.

Do you people realize that only 2 Wr's in the history of the NFL had a better first 3 years in the NFL .... Rice & Moss. So yeah I think Wallace is capable of 20 TD seasons !

If Brees was throwing Wallace the ball.... no doubt !

scottcurtis
02-12-2013, 07:55 AM
Yinzers will always be yinzers.




"Ben lover" is the new "n____r lover," apparently.


TALK ABOUT SOMEONE WHO SHOULD BE BAN !!!!! YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF! SERIOUSLY !!!! YOUR OPINION MEANS ZERO TO ME !!!! ESPECIALLY NOW !!!!

lloydwoodson
02-12-2013, 08:03 AM
Do you people realize that only 2 Wr's in the history of the NFL had a better first 3 years in the NFL .... Rice & Moss. So yeah I think Wallace is capable of 20 TD seasons !

If Brees was throwing Wallace the ball.... no doubt !

I'm going to let you finish... but Lance Alworth and Anquan Boldin had two of the best first 3 years in the NFL of all time!

I think Wallace could be capable of a 20 td season if the planets aligned correctly but it would take ideal circumstances.

As you can see by my signature I am pretty big on Wallace.

Blacksburg Zach
02-12-2013, 08:05 AM
Terry Bradshaw? I think a QB who's absolute worst rating in 4 superbowls is 101 is very clutch.

Not to mention Bradshaw is tied with Montana for most consecutive playoff games with 2 or more TD passes with 7.

No player has ever stepped up his regular season play for the playoffs more than Bradshaw.

Elway's claim to fame? Beating the Browns in the AFC Championship only to lose to the Redskins 42-10 and finish with a rating of 36. The drive! The drive! Show me some highlights of his 3 interception Superbowl blowout please NFL Network- that's what he won with "The Drive."

Elway lost 3 Superbowls by 19 or more points (4 in total) before TD came along. There is no Elway "legacy" without TD. Period.

Elway was only part of the losing superbowl team three times. Superbowl xxi 39-20 to the giants, superbowl xxii 42-10 to the redskins, and superbowl xxiv 55-10 to the 49ers. The Broncos franchise lost super bowl xii to the cowboys, but Craig Morton was the Broncos quarterback in that game, but yeah, those three blowout superbowl losses are still pretty bad.

steeltheone
02-12-2013, 10:02 AM
Elway was only part of the losing superbowl team three times. Superbowl xxi 39-20 to the giants, su[erbowl xxii 42-10 to the redskins, and superbowl xxiv 55-10 to the 49ers. The Broncos franchise lost super bowl xii to the cowboys, but Craig Morton was the Broncos quarterback in that game, but yeah, those three blowout superbowl losses are still pretty bad.

The fact that he took those average teams to the big game is amazing!

GoFor7
02-13-2013, 02:05 PM
Do you people realize that only 2 Wr's in the history of the NFL had a better first 3 years in the NFL .... Rice & Moss. So yeah I think Wallace is capable of 20 TD seasons !

If Brees was throwing Wallace the ball.... no doubt !

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! ah ain't want none a dis passin' n'at! ah want REAL STILLERZ FOOTBALL! THREE YARDS AN' A CLOUD OF DUST N'AT! SMASHMOUF FOOTBALL! all dis passin' iz fer sissy teams! IT AIN'T EVEN MATTER DAT THE STILLERZ DON'T MAKE DA PLAYOFFS, CUZ DA STILLERZ WAY IZ DA RIGHT WAY! ALL DEM UDDER TEAMS IZ WRONG! IT AIN'T MATTER DAT DEM UDDER TEAMS MAKE DA PLAYOFFS CUZ DEY WRONG!

DEFENSE! DEFENSE! DEFENSE! DEFENSE! DEFENSE!

steelfury02
02-13-2013, 02:32 PM
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! ah ain't want none a dis passin' n'at! ah want REAL STILLERZ FOOTBALL! THREE YARDS AN' A CLOUD OF DUST N'AT! SMASHMOUF FOOTBALL! all dis passin' iz fer sissy teams! IT AIN'T EVEN MATTER DAT THE STILLERZ DON'T MAKE DA PLAYOFFS, CUZ DA STILLERZ WAY IZ DA RIGHT WAY! ALL DEM UDDER TEAMS IZ WRONG! IT AIN'T MATTER DAT DEM UDDER TEAMS MAKE DA PLAYOFFS CUZ DEY WRONG!

DEFENSE! DEFENSE! DEFENSE! DEFENSE! DEFENSE!

huh?

GoFor7
02-13-2013, 02:39 PM
huh?

STILLERZ FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



n'at

SteelersCanada
02-13-2013, 03:04 PM
This topic needs to be closed. There's legitimately nothing smart being said about Wallace anymore. People saying Wallace would have 20+ TDs in a season are the definition of ignorant. Larry Fitzgerald and Megatron haven't been to 20 yet, but no, Mike Wallace would have more yardage and TD receptions than both of those guys. I swear to god, the amount of stupidity that is in that one sentence is ludicrous.

Shut up. Seriously, shut up.

pczach
02-13-2013, 04:41 PM
This topic needs to be closed. There's legitimately nothing smart being said about Wallace anymore. People saying Wallace would have 20+ TDs in a season are the definition of ignorant. Larry Fitzgerald and Megatron haven't been to 20 yet, but no, Mike Wallace would have more yardage and TD receptions than both of those guys. I swear to god, the amount of stupidity that is in that one sentence is ludicrous.

Shut up. Seriously, shut up.

Larry Fitzgerald and Megatron combined for 9 TD's this past year. Asking these people to be reasonable is a waste of time. Maybe the incurably ignorant people should be ignored and not responded to. To make a statement like that shows a complete lack of understanding of the game of football. The "no doubt" at the end of his claim is priceless.:doh:

zcoop
02-13-2013, 06:28 PM
Larry Fitzgerald and Megatron combined for 9 TD's this past year. Asking these people to be reasonable is a waste of time. Maybe the incurably ignorant people should be ignored and not responded to. To make a statement like that shows a complete lack of understanding of the game of football. The "no doubt" at the end of his claim is priceless.:doh:

Priceless indeed, they topped Mike by 1 (combined) with his 8 TDs. Dammit he need to get more before he can be considered elite.

lloydwoodson
02-14-2013, 09:09 PM
Priceless indeed, they topped Mike by 1 (combined) with his 8 TDs. Dammit he need to get more before he can be considered elite.

Johnson also had roughly 80 more targets than Wallace so theres that.

SteelersCanada
02-14-2013, 10:01 PM
Are people still defending Mike Wallace over Megatron?

http://communities.sportsnet.ca/servlet/JiveServlet/showImage/2-2000756-16814/54b3e46b_not-sure-if-serious.jpeg

Blacksburg Zach
02-14-2013, 10:09 PM
I love how this Ben thread turned into a Mike Wallace thread. It's not as if we have enough of either of those or anything.

teegre
02-14-2013, 10:18 PM
I love how this Ben thread turned into a Mike Wallace thread. It's not as if we have enough of either of those or anything.

And, one of the BB threads became a Wallace thread.

The two overly discussed topics melded into in uber-thread:
"Trade Alex Smith for Megatron"

zcoop
02-15-2013, 06:00 PM
Are people still defending Mike Wallace over Megatron?

http://communities.sportsnet.ca/servlet/JiveServlet/showImage/2-2000756-16814/54b3e46b_not-sure-if-serious.jpeg

I don't recall anyone putting Mike over Johnson. I recall people giving credit where it is due. Detroit throws the ball a helluva a lot more that we do and Stafford has less targets. No one has put Mike over Johnson or Fitzgerald, just trying to put things in perspective contrary to the disinformation being spread on this board.

lloydwoodson
02-15-2013, 09:35 PM
I don't recall anyone putting Mike over Johnson. I recall people giving credit where it is due. Detroit throws the ball a helluva a lot more that we do and Stafford has less targets. No one has put Mike over Johnson or Fitzgerald, just trying to put things in perspective contrary to the disinformation being spread on this board.

Thanks for keeping things on an even keel. It seems usually one person starts attacking someone's legitimate opinion and it just snowballs from there.