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View Full Version : I'll say it plainly - anyone questioning Big Ben is an IDIOT


LayingTheWoodley56
02-06-2013, 06:59 AM
I cannot believe my eyes, looking at all of these threads, comparing Ben to Flacco, even one suggesting that its time to maybe "blow it up" and trade Roethlisberger.

I only have one question: are you people out of your fucking minds?

Ben is widely regarded as an upper-echelon quarterback in the NFL. He has played in three Super Bowls (yes, I know he was less-than-stellar in 2 of them. It still takes a lot of great quarterback play to get there, and Ben was magnificent in Denver and Indy in 05.) He was actually having, judging by the eye-test, his best season until his injury against KC this season, and that completely derailed the offense upon his return.

Ben still has at least 5 seasons of high-level play in him. For all the talk of his injuries, he's never had one that caused him to be out more than 3 or 4 games (no ACL tears, significant elbow/shoulder injuries, or anything of that nature.) For anyone to question his standing as our starting quarterback is beyond moronic.

Who do you people suggest we get to play QB? I'll be waiting a long time for any kind of reasonable answer that will give us a signal-caller even approaching Big Ben's level.

Guess what? Our biggest rivals just won the Super Bowl. And yes, former national punchline Joe Flacco played spectacularly in getting them there. That DOES NOT mean we have to compare him to our guy, who has won an awful lot of football games around here. That DOES NOT mean that it's time to start questioning whether or not we'd be better off with someone - what? More like Joe Flacco? What the hell do you people want?

There's no reason to believe that we can't bounce back and be Super Bowl contenders NEXT YEAR, with a few roster tweaks but also largely intact. Do you think the Giants expected to win the Super Bowl after an average 2010?

So, please, anyone who will defend the ditch-Ben line of thinking, let's hear it. What do you suggest? Alex Smith? Michael Vick? Trade him for a couple first-round picks and draft Matt Barkley? Bring in Jamarcus Russell for a tryout? Ask the Jets about Sanchez' availability?

Or do we stick with the guy whose won 3 AFC championships and 2 Super Bowl rings, with an astronomical winning percentage in 9 seasons here, who was on top of his game before an injury this season, and who is still in the prime of his career? Tough choice.

VaDave
02-06-2013, 07:13 AM
We are going to have more than a few roster tweaks this off-season.

Overall, I'm with you on Ben. Yep, we have to give credit to Flacco for his run, but to discount what Ben has put up at this point in his career by some in the great Steeler Nation, is absurd.

Last year everybody was all about Eli, the year before Brady, the year before, it was Rivers, the year before it it the other Manning, the year before..... recognize a pattern here???

wwhickok
02-06-2013, 07:30 AM
Here is what I think. Everyone SHOULD be questioning Ben. He HAS to play better but he also has to stay health and that goes hand in hand with his ability to play better.

We can all agree that unless theyre trading for Kirk Cousins there isnt a starter out there that is going to be of comfort. (Kirk Cousins is going to.start somewhere in the future.


But I agree Ben is 50X better than Flacco and There is no way we should consider trading him.

Steeldude
02-06-2013, 07:34 AM
There is nothing wrong with questioning any player on the roster.

Steeldude
02-06-2013, 07:35 AM
We can all agree that unless theyre trading for Kirk Cousins there isnt a starter out there that is going to be of comfort.




Huh? Trade BR for Kirk Cousins?

VaDave
02-06-2013, 07:42 AM
Here is what I think. Everyone SHOULD be questioning Ben. He HAS to play better but he also has to stay health and that goes hand in hand with his ability to play better.

We can all agree that unless theyre trading for Kirk Cousins there isnt a starter out there that is going to be of comfort. (Kirk Cousins is going to.start somewhere in the future.


But I agree Ben is 50X better than Flacco and There is no way we should consider trading him.

Everybody needs to play better..... Unfortunately, as long as there are humans playing the game, you got to look at the averages, and frankly, Ben's numbers are pretty stinking good.

Sure, there are s subjective measuments, sometimes refered to as "The Eyeball Test" we'd all love to see improve, but dang, this is a pretty stinking great QB we got here.

wwhickok
02-06-2013, 07:52 AM
Huh? Trade BR for Kirk Cousins?

No no no. I meant acquiring Cousins period. Not for Ben.

VaDave
02-06-2013, 07:54 AM
Gottcha... my bad...

wwhickok
02-06-2013, 07:56 AM
Everybody needs to play better..... Unfortunately, as long as there are humans playing the game, you got to look at the averages, and frankly, Ben's numbers are pretty stinking good.

Sure, there are s subjective measuments, sometimes refered to as "The Eyeball Test" we'd all love to see improve, but dang, this is a pretty stinking great QB we got here.

I agree completely. I am just saying that if you are going t cticize him, make sure its applied in the right place. I. Would not want ANY other QB including Tom Brady, Drew brees, or Aaron Rodgers. Yes I am dead serious.

VaDave
02-06-2013, 08:09 AM
w,

Good post. Sorry, I go nutz when Steeler Nation goes all reflective and picks at every scab when we don't win a SuperBowl.... It's like some birthright that has been taken from them.

So far I've read on this board that we need to run not only Ben out of town, but at least 30 other players, and most of the coaching staff to boot. The expectation is that we will find the second coming of Vince Lombardi to coach, the modern day equivalent of Otto Graham, along with a cast of potential hall of fame players, filling out a team that will win the super bowl in perpituity, all of whom will fit into our cap space of $131,000,000.


Sorry for the rant.

casteeler
02-06-2013, 08:18 AM
What? Trade Ben for Cousins? Trade a 10 year veteran with a dozen injuries and a doubtful future for a Rookie that played GREAT the first time that he was thrown in a game and led his team down the field for a win against the eventual SB champion Raven defense....... Lunacy. The Redskins wouldn't go for it

LayingTheWoodley56
02-06-2013, 08:45 AM
What? Trade Ben for Cousins? Trade a 10 year veteran with a dozen injuries and a doubtful future for a Rookie that played GREAT the first time that he was thrown in a game and led his team down the field for a win against the eventual SB champion Raven defense....... Lunacy. The Redskins wouldn't go for it

Are you actually suggesting that we trade our franchise quarterback at 30 years old (who, I will say again, was having a near-MVP caliber season before his injury) for a 4th-round pick who had one decent drive? That is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard in my entire life. Lets see what the reaction is in Pittsburgh if that happens.

LayingTheWoodley56
02-06-2013, 08:46 AM
Unless your kidding, in which case I apologize.

JeromeBetties63
02-06-2013, 08:48 AM
There is nothing wrong with questioning any player on the roster.

Wrong.

wwhickok
02-06-2013, 08:51 AM
What? Trade Ben for Cousins? Trade a 10 year veteran with a dozen injuries and a doubtful future for a Rookie that played GREAT the first time that he was thrown in a game and led his team down the field for a win against the eventual SB champion Raven defense....... Lunacy. The Redskins wouldn't go for it

Uh...thats not what I said, clearly you posted this without reading the other
comments.

Dave, I didnt have a single problem with your rant nothing you said was untrue and you could criticize every player at every position for SOMETHING.

Im glad we have made some changes and I do think therenis going to be a more significant turnover than there has been in previous seasons; but the Steelers find a way to win. Always have. Thays not going to change. Outside of Zac Dysert, who I highly doubt we draft, Im not very excited about this class of QBs. Hell I could be completely wrong on my belief thay Dyset is going to be a good NFL QB for that matter. I dont think the future to Ben is in this years class. But I do think we need to look at QB in 2014. Not getting rid of Ben in 2014; just getting a groomable QB.

The Steelers are one of those teams who have not changed their team based on the latest 'fad', for example, the wildcat. I don't see the Steelers doing that for the Pistol either. They say there is no way to stop it. The Steelers have proven in the past, they will be the team to prove the analysts wrong.

LayingTheWoodley56
02-06-2013, 08:53 AM
Wrong.

I was just going to quote this one to. It's sad how many "fans" seem to glory in criticizing our players, rather than rooting for them. It really feels like some people root for Ike, Ben, Wallace and others to fail so they can run on here and type about what crap they are. I'm not saying that criticism is not warranted on many occasions, but it sucks to see how many people seem to revel in it.

Right down to the fans who complain about our Super Bowl victories because the championship wasn't won in the perfect way they wanted.

wwhickok
02-06-2013, 08:57 AM
I was just going to quote this one to. It's sad how many "fans" seem to glory in criticizing our players, rather than rooting for them. It really feels like some people root for Ike, Ben, Wallace and others to fail so they can run on here and type about what crap they are. I'm not saying that criticism is not warranted on many occasions, but it sucks to see how many people seem to revel in it.

Right down to the fans who complain about our Super Bowl victories because the championship wasn't won in the perfect way they wanted.

You just described the prototype bandwagon fan.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
02-06-2013, 09:27 AM
I would like to say I completly agree with layinthewood first post.

I just want to add a few things.

Yes Ben was having a MVP season in HALEY'S SYSTEM before he got hurt. After he came back things weren't so good, rather its bens fault due to injury(or not) a lack of run game or what ever else may be our offense didn't look good.

Now people may say with the talent he had at wr he should of been able to at the very least duplicate 75% of what he did before the kc game. And because he didn't do that we should either trade, re evaluate him, or what a lot of people do is criticize him. However that should not be the case. Because...

In the first year under a new oc things will be rocky from the get go. Bens ability to perform well at the start shows he is a great qb, from going to his man crush Bruce's offense to a completly new system.

Once Ben went down for 3 weeks the steelers had to play with Byron and Charlie, two guys who do not have the skills Ben does. So for those three week the offense had to gameplay for different qbs and had a different way to try and attack opposing defenses.

In the middle of the season this can be very harmful to an offense. In year one in Haley they found there grove with Ben, then he got hurt and we had a completly new offensive gameplan, then Ben comes back and they switch the gameplan again. This is why it was so rocky at the end because we never were able to hit a groove and players weren't able to get comfortable in the system they wanted deploy under Ben. Changing offensive gameplans to suit 3 different qbs will hurt a offense in the middle of the season.

Had Ben not got hurt, the offense would of cont. it's great run and we could be sitting here talking about who to draft at 32 instead of complaining about our greatest qb since Bradshaw.

Riddle_Of_Steel
02-06-2013, 10:16 AM
While I think that trading Ben would be moronic at best, I don't consider him above reproach or criticism. I think that trading him is out of the question right now, but only because there are no better options available at this time. It would be nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction at this point.

His lack of success when not backed up by a top ten defense is documented and a fact. He is not perfect, by any stretch of the imagination.

I am more of a Steelers fan than a Roethlisberger fan. I see no problem with being objective about him.

Comparisons between he and Joe Flacco are fair game and valid. Flacco is our rival's franchise QB. He just took them to a SB and won SB MVP-- something Ben has never done. It deserves discussion. It should not be a taboo subject unless you are trying to hide from something.

Riddle_Of_Steel
02-06-2013, 10:25 AM
I would like to say I completly agree with layinthewood first post.

I just want to add a few things.

Yes Ben was having a MVP season in HALEY'S SYSTEM before he got hurt. After he came back things weren't so good, rather its bens fault due to injury(or not) a lack of run game or what ever else may be our offense didn't look good.

Now people may say with the talent he had at wr he should of been able to at the very least duplicate 75% of what he did before the kc game. And because he didn't do that we should either trade, re evaluate him, or what a lot of people do is criticize him. However that should not be the case. Because...

In the first year under a new oc things will be rocky from the get go. Bens ability to perform well at the start shows he is a great qb, from going to his man crush Bruce's offense to a completly new system.

Once Ben went down for 3 weeks the steelers had to play with Byron and Charlie, two guys who do not have the skills Ben does. So for those three week the offense had to gameplay for different qbs and had a different way to try and attack opposing defenses.

In the middle of the season this can be very harmful to an offense. In year one in Haley they found there grove with Ben, then he got hurt and we had a completly new offensive gameplan, then Ben comes back and they switch the gameplan again. This is why it was so rocky at the end because we never were able to hit a groove and players weren't able to get comfortable in the system they wanted deploy under Ben. Changing offensive gameplans to suit 3 different qbs will hurt a offense in the middle of the season.

Had Ben not got hurt, the offense would of cont. it's great run and we could be sitting here talking about who to draft at 32 instead of complaining about our greatest qb since Bradshaw.

While I definitely hear what you are saying-- it does sound an awful lot like making excuses. You know that if a Ravens fan just told you the same thing about Joe Flacco-- you would call them out on it.

Peyton Manning just came back from major reconstructive surgery, on a completely new team after not playing for year. He was about one play away from taking his team to at least the conference championship.

Ben is NOT above reproach.

But I agree that the "trade Ben" crowd is a bit crazy. I think he will be back to form this year after he heals up, is no longer a new daddy, and has another year in Haley's system.

Steelers5895
02-06-2013, 10:29 AM
I was just going to quote this one to. It's sad how many "fans" seem to glory in criticizing our players, rather than rooting for them. It really feels like some people root for Ike, Ben, Wallace and others to fail so they can run on here and type about what crap they are. I'm not saying that criticism is not warranted on many occasions, but it sucks to see how many people seem to revel in it.

Right down to the fans who complain about our Super Bowl victories because the championship wasn't won in the perfect way they wanted.

There is nothing wrong with critizing players and it doesnt make anyone less of a fan or a bandwagon rider. I am a Steelers fan since 1978 but I am VERY critical of players and I give reasons why.

What I think is worse is the love affair steelers fans get with players and dont look at their performance objectively.

I think Ben gets a free pass. he is playing with house money, kind of like Jeter on on the Yankees. he has done enough for the team, organization and fans.

he has 2 super bowl wins, playoff wins and we know going into any game we can win because he is our QB. To me that is a great feeling to have.

he has played hurt and showed a toughness you dont see from the QB position.

I never once questioned or will question an NFL players toughness or downplay an injury as every human body is different. he has given his all.

Ben is a "cusp" hall of famer and if he wins one more he is a lock. Any complaints is obsurd.

SteelersCanada
02-06-2013, 10:29 AM
Welcome! Let me introduce you to the sect known as 'SteelerNation'. We're a spoiled bunch and after one season - a .500 season, mind you - we question Tomlin and Roethlisberger, both of whom are Super Bowl champions. But, if we don't go 12 - 4 / 13 - 3 every single year while picking between 28 - 32, we have to blow up the franchise because, well, we're spoiled.

People who are saying a) Flacco is better than Roethlisberger and b) we should trade Ben are flat out stupid. Every fanbase has them and you're seeing ours. That's all.

steelfury02
02-06-2013, 10:40 AM
yup - those of us saying we'd like to see even more out of Ben are certainly not wanting anyone else over him either nor do we under appreciate what he's accomplished - that is nucking futs

Ben has shown the capability to be a student on the game on top of his unorthodox style that no one can replicate, and certainly, no one else can say their QB is as tough as Ben - I take him 100% of the time - but damnit, when I see games like the 11' Patriots game, and the start of this past season where he is finding 10 different receivers and killing defenses with efficiency (I'm not saying we shouldn't go vertical - just not so much as under Arians IMO - especially with our O-line's history) I just can't help but say "That is a flash of Ben that is even better than he ever has been - and that is S_C_A_R_Y - more please."

I want to see Ben kill with efficiency, and then, when his 10 targets (ridiculous options when people are healthy and are allowed to click over time) aren't available he can scramble around like a mad man and make that impossible 3rd down play whenever the hell he wants. Ben has the potential to be top 5 (of all time) in the conversation and his flashes of an added capability gets me excited - that's all.

MACH1
02-06-2013, 11:24 AM
How many of you armchair quarterbacks have tried throwing a football at a professional level a few weeks after separating your shoulder and a rib?

Steelers5895
02-06-2013, 11:30 AM
How many of you armchair quarterbacks have tried throwing a football at a professional level a few weeks after separating your shoulder and a rib?

yep, and that is why i never question is someone is injured or how injured, etc. we are all different.

cowherpower
02-06-2013, 11:42 AM
I agree completely. I am just saying that if you are going t cticize him, make sure its applied in the right place. I. Would not want ANY other QB including Tom Brady, Drew brees, or Aaron Rodgers. Yes I am dead serious.

I can understand supporting and liking Ben as the Steelers starting QB but you'd really rather have Ben than a young Luck, RG3, Kaepernick...all who have another 12-15 years or a better NOW QB in Brady or Rodgers? Well, that is going a little too far imho

cowherpower
02-06-2013, 11:44 AM
yup - those of us saying we'd like to see even more out of Ben are certainly not wanting anyone else over him either nor do we under appreciate what he's accomplished - that is nucking futs

Ben has shown the capability to be a student on the game on top of his unorthodox style that no one can replicate, and certainly, no one else can say their QB is as tough as Ben - I take him 100% of the time - but damnit, when I see games like the 11' Patriots game, and the start of this past season where he is finding 10 different receivers and killing defenses with efficiency (I'm not saying we shouldn't go vertical - just not so much as under Arians IMO - especially with our O-line's history) I just can't help but say "That is a flash of Ben that is even better than he ever has been - and that is S_C_A_R_Y - more please."

I want to see Ben kill with efficiency, and then, when his 10 targets (ridiculous options when people are healthy and are allowed to click over time) aren't available he can scramble around like a mad man and make that impossible 3rd down play whenever the hell he wants. Ben has the potential to be top 5 (of all time) in the conversation and his flashes of an added capability gets me excited - that's all.

you had me until 'student of the game'. That would be the last thing I would call Ben. In fact I would say that is THE one thing other than hitting the gym that is preventing him from being one of all time best.

Gnutella
02-06-2013, 11:45 AM
There is nothing wrong with questioning any player on the roster.

There's a difference between questioning a player and being disappointed in him, and bashing a player. Too many Steeler fans cross that line, especially with QBs. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing Ben Roethlisberger does wrong is not throw the ball away enough. Dumb QBs don't have only 1.99% of their passes intercepted over a three-year span. Uncoachable QBs don't learn a whole new system of offense in one off-season.

As for reading defenses, I've heard Cris Collinsworth say during a game (paraphrased), "He went through all his progressions and then some; that was his sixth read there, which was actually just him going from his fifth read back to his first again." Another announcer, I forget whom, illustrated Roethlisberger missing an open man by explaining that the open man was his first look, and he'd already moved on in his progressions before his man got open, then got flushed out of the pocket away from him. That doesn't sound like somebody who can't read defenses to me.

By the way, Aaron Rodgers has been sacked at a higher rate than Roethlisberger over the last three seasons, and that's with a somewhat better offensive line to boot. And though there's no doubt that Peyton Manning is smarter, I honestly cannot recall Roethlisberger throwing back toward the hashmarks from the sideline the way Manning did on his last throw of this past season (the overtime INT against the Ravens in the playoffs). What an idiotic throw that was.


Are you actually suggesting that we trade our franchise quarterback at 30 years old (who, I will say again, was having a near-MVP caliber season before his injury) for a 4th-round pick who had one decent drive? That is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard in my entire life. Lets see what the reaction is in Pittsburgh if that happens.

It'll be elation in the neighborhoods and suburbs with a below-average concentration of college degrees. Then when he fucks up, they'll call in to 93.7 The Fan and say, "See? This is why he wasn't drafted in the same round as RGIII!"

Gnutella
02-06-2013, 12:04 PM
How many of you armchair quarterbacks have tried throwing a football at a professional level a few weeks after separating your shoulder and a rib?

The answer is zero.

They say it takes six weeks (http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ycn-8015264) on average to heal from such an injury. Roethlisberger got injured on November 12. Six weeks after November 12 is December 24, the day after the Steelers were eliminated from the playoffs. Roethlisberger missed three games, and then played poorly in three more games.

# of games missed + # of poor games = # of weeks for rib injury to heal

What a coincidence! Then, in the seventh week post-injury, Roethlisberger threw three TD passes and zero INTs. Maybe it really does take a dislocated rib six weeks to heal like the doctors say!

A QB's livelihood is his arm; he injures the shoulder and rib adjacent to his throwing arm, comes back three weeks before they're expected to be healed, and plays three poor games. Gee, imagine that! Furthermore, in five of his first nine starts he had completion percentages in the 70's, but in his first three games back from his injury, the best he could do was 60%. This ain't hard to figure out.

And I don't blame him for coming back early either because Byron Leftwich is ridiculously fragile, and Charlie Batch just doesn't have it anymore. I bet Roethlisberger will prove next season that his post-injury performance was the aberration instead of his pre-injury performance.


you had me until 'student of the game'. That would be the last thing I would call Ben. In fact I would say that is THE one thing other than hitting the gym that is preventing him from being one of all time best.

If he's not a "student of the game," then how'd he learn a new system of offense so fast?

wwhickok
02-06-2013, 12:21 PM
I can understand supporting and liking Ben as the Steelers starting QB but you'd really rather have Ben than a young Luck, RG3, Kaepernick...all who have another 12-15 years or a better NOW QB in Brady or Rodgers? Well, that is going a little too far imho

I would rather have Ben than clearly declining Tom Brady, badly injured RG3, and yes, Aaron Rodgers, who Id like to see get hit by a bus.

Id love to have Kaepernick or Luck sure. But would I trade Ben? Honestly I wouldnt.

wwhickok
02-06-2013, 12:25 PM
How many of you armchair quarterbacks have tried throwing a football at a professional level a few weeks after separating your shoulder and a rib?

Im not even an armchair QB. I am an armchair WR that runs about a 5.5 40 time, weighs 165, is as short as MJD, but has great hands....not that theyd help when i get crushed by any NFL player lol.

I get your point and people are naive to think they could do better.

SteelersCanada
02-06-2013, 12:30 PM
I can understand supporting and liking Ben as the Steelers starting QB but you'd really rather have Ben than a young Luck, RG3, Kaepernick...all who have another 12-15 years or a better NOW QB in Brady or Rodgers? Well, that is going a little too far imho

You think that Kaepernick has 12 - 15 read option years ahead of him? Or, more realistically, teams do what the Rams did and make him a complete liability instead of an asset next year when they have substantial film on him.

steelfury02
02-06-2013, 12:40 PM
you had me until 'student of the game'. That would be the last thing I would call Ben. In fact I would say that is THE one thing other than hitting the gym that is preventing him from being one of all time best.

the games where he has systematically dismantled defenses with quick throws and with 10 different receivers is an indicator of someone that is studying and taking what the defense is giving him - he has shown flashes of understanding defenses and knowing situations - I said flash, not that he has become or is now fully capable - just sayin

Riddle_Of_Steel
02-06-2013, 12:49 PM
How many of you armchair quarterbacks have tried throwing a football at a professional level a few weeks after separating your shoulder and a rib?

Not much of an argument here at all- just hurt indignation.

Obviously, none of us have thrown a football at the professional level, after an injury or otherwise. That is a bobby-trapped statement.

However, that does not absolve Ben of anything, nor does it mean we aren't justified as fans to criticize when they players turn in sub-par performances.

Alot of people criticize the President, and I am fairly certain none of them have ever given an order that will result in someone's death before.

Using your logic, then nobody has any right to criticizde or critique poor performance if they do not work in the same field or hold the same title.

So....

* We can't criticize Goodell as Commissioner anymore-- none of us have ever had to run a major sports franchise.

* We can't criticize Joe Flacco or any other NFL player on another team anymore-- we have not played their position at a professional level, right?

* We can't criticize the referees anymore-- most of us have never had to make a penalty call at the professional level before right?

steelfury02
02-06-2013, 12:51 PM
Not much of an argument here at all- just hurt indignation.

Obviously, none of us have thrown a football at the professional level, after an injury or otherwise. That is a bobby-trapped statement.

However, that does not absolve Ben of anything, nor does it mean we aren't justified as fans to criticize when they players turn in sub-par performances.

Alot of people criticize the President, and I am fairly certain none of them have ever given an order that will result in someone's death before.

Using your logic, then nobody has any right to criticizde or critique poor performance if they do not work in the same field or hold the same title.

So....

* We can't criticize Goodell as Commissioner anymore-- none of us have ever had to run a major sports franchise.

* We can't criticize Joe Flacco or any other NFL player on another team anymore-- we have not played their position at a professional level, right?

* We can't criticize the referees anymore-- most of us have never had to make a penalty call at the professional level before right?

wrong - Sloppy Joe is Joe Flacco in disguise

casteeler
02-06-2013, 01:30 PM
Welcome! Let me introduce you to the sect known as 'SteelerNation'. We're a spoiled bunch and after one season - a .500 season, mind you - we question Tomlin and Roethlisberger, both of whom are Super Bowl champions. But, if we don't go 12 - 4 / 13 - 3 every single year while picking between 28 - 32, we have to blow up the franchise because, well, we're spoiled.

People who are saying a) Flacco is better than Roethlisberger and b) we should trade Ben are flat out stupid. Every fanbase has them and you're seeing ours. That's all.

This team with its current players will never be as good as they once were, we are spoiled but lack the good judgement it takes to say "Maybe he will never be as good as he once was". Ben is better than Flaco but for how long

StainlessStill
02-06-2013, 01:33 PM
I'll say it to the day he retires. Give me a MEGAPHONE if you have to. GIVE ME BEN ROETHLISBERGER OVER ANYBODY ELSE IN THIS LEAGUE AS THE LEADER AND STARTING QB UNDER CENTER AND LETS ROLL!

MACH1
02-06-2013, 01:39 PM
Not much of an argument here at all- just hurt indignation.

Obviously, none of us have thrown a football at the professional level, after an injury or otherwise. That is a bobby-trapped statement.

However, that does not absolve Ben of anything, nor does it mean we aren't justified as fans to criticize when they players turn in sub-par performances.

Alot of people criticize the President, and I am fairly certain none of them have ever given an order that will result in someone's death before.

Using your logic, then nobody has any right to criticizde or critique poor performance if they do not work in the same field or hold the same title.

So....

* We can't criticize Goodell as Commissioner anymore-- none of us have ever had to run a major sports franchise.

* We can't criticize Joe Flacco or any other NFL player on another team anymore-- we have not played their position at a professional level, right?

* We can't criticize the referees anymore-- most of us have never had to make a penalty call at the professional level before right?

But it's okay to play judge/jury/executioner with a players career after coming back early with major injuries and one bad TEAM season?
Okay I get it we're only allowed to be jealous whiny little b******.

:shout: FIRE BEN

Gnutella
02-06-2013, 01:47 PM
Why the fuck are we even asking if we'd trade Roethlisberger for some young QB? First of all, it's never going to happen, so there's no point in asking. Second of all, I don't see Patriots fans asking if they'd trade Tom Brady for Colin Kaepernick, or Saints fans asking if they'd trade Drew Brees for Russell Wilson. Those fan bases don't take their franchise QBs for granted, and neither should we. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Enjoy the next five years or so of Roethlisberger's career, and then give him a toast when he retires.

SteelersCanada
02-06-2013, 01:55 PM
This team with its current players will never be as good as they once were, we are spoiled but lack the good judgement it takes to say "Maybe he will never be as good as he once was". Ben is better than Flaco but for how long

You realize this was all said after the 2009 season, right? Everything you just said has been said before.

Now, I thought it was ridiculous before and now, if it's possible, I think it's more ridiculous now. For you to come out and say Flacco could be taking over Roethlisberger because of 4 good games he had is ridiculous. You know who had a great regular season? Matt Ryan. Is Matt Ryan taking over Ben's seat now, too?

Look at Flacco's playoff stats before these four games and tell me this Quarterback is going to strike fear into anyone. He isn't. He's average and the front office of the Ravens knows it.

My answer for how much longer will Ben be better than Flacco? Until Ben hangs 'em up. He's done more with less and he's won a Super Bowl with the worst offensive line this team has ever seen. Flacco has viable targets at RB, WR and TE and we're all clamoring over him because he had a good postseason? His regular season stats were mediocre. It's amazing how hot and cold this fanbase is after one average season.

VaDave
02-06-2013, 02:20 PM
Not much of an argument here at all- just hurt indignation.

Obviously, none of us have thrown a football at the professional level, after an injury or otherwise. That is a bobby-trapped statement.

However, that does not absolve Ben of anything, nor does it mean we aren't justified as fans to criticize when they players turn in sub-par performances.

Alot of people criticize the President, and I am fairly certain none of them have ever given an order that will result in someone's death before.

Using your logic, then nobody has any right to criticizde or critique poor performance if they do not work in the same field or hold the same title.

So....

* We can't criticize Goodell as Commissioner anymore-- none of us have ever had to run a major sports franchise.

* We can't criticize Joe Flacco or any other NFL player on another team anymore-- we have not played their position at a professional level, right?

* We can't criticize the referees anymore-- most of us have never had to make a penalty call at the professional level before right?

Maybe life would be better if we weren't so critical?? It's like going on a beautiful scenic drive, but only noticing and talking about the cracks in the road.

GoFor7
02-06-2013, 02:30 PM
Going into next season, the Steelers will have an offense line with only 10 total years of NFL experience, and no deep threat at WR. Yet, all of yinzer nation is saying Ben needs to "step up." Really? Yinz want Ben to do more, but he's surrounded by utter crap.

"The Steelers will run the ball!"

Yeah, and when that doesn't work?

If anything, the Steelers shut down their own offense by not going deep enough and using Mike Wallace properly. Yeah, he had bad drops. All the WRs did. But Brown had such a good year in 2011 because the other team had to worry about Wallace going deep. When other teams caught on to the fact the Steelers were just trying to play the possession game, it was much easier to shut down their passing game.

That's not surprising considering the team refuses to embrace modern day football.

Riddle_Of_Steel
02-06-2013, 02:41 PM
Maybe life would be better if we weren't so critical?? It's like going on a beautiful scenic drive, but only noticing and talking about the cracks in the road.


I hear ya, Dave and agree somewhat. But this is football- the most tactically sophisticated team sport in the world (eat it, Euros). It is meant to be overanalyzed....

Not a "negative nancy" myself, but I have a very strong analytical/strategic personality type (according to the stupid new-age tests they give us at work all the time) and am an engineer by trade. I like to break things apart, analyze them, and then rebuild them better.

My criticisms of Big Ben or the team are done so with the intent of generating objective analysis, not to bash or make the sky fall down.

Anyone questioning Big Ben right now, is NOT an idiot, contrary to the OP. However, you could make a good argument that the folks who say to trade him now, for (insert name of undeserving QB), are a bit on the panicky side and prone to crack under pressure.

Riddle_Of_Steel
02-06-2013, 02:56 PM
Going into next season, the Steelers will have an offense line with only 10 total years of NFL experience, and no deep threat at WR.

Get off it. The Cowboys threw an Oline at us that was missing all of its starters and they handled James Harrison, Lamar Hampton, Hood, Kiesel, and the Hutt just fine.

The Steelers have won two Superbowls in recent history with no deep threat at all besides Holmes.

Wallace's contribution to this offense is vastly overrated.

Yet, all of yinzer nation is saying Ben needs to "step up." Really? Yinz want Ben to do more, but he's surrounded by utter crap.

LOL. You have been saying this for some time now, and it is no more true than it was a month ago.

Ben lives behind an Oline that has, count them, 2 1st round picks, and 2 2nd round picks. That is not a bad pedigree at all.

He has one of the best TEs in the league to throw to.

He had the fastest receiver in the NFL to throw to.

He had the first guy to earn 1000 yards receiving and 1000 yards on kick returns, and who scored a TD on his very first NFL play ever.

About the only thing on that offensive unit you could criticize for being sub-par were the RBs.


If anything, the Steelers shut down their own offense by not going deep enough and using Mike Wallace properly. Yeah, he had bad drops. All the WRs did.

Not really. Brown and Sanders both had a fumble catastrophe this season each, but it was largely an isolated incident.

They were averaging at least two deep balls to Wallace per game. Anymore than that and you run the risk of making your offense one-dimensional and dependent on gimmicks (or you waste lots of downs throwing iincomplete passes and leaving your defense out to dry).

There is no reason why any #1 WR should only be able to be counted on while running a single type of route. Wallace got his deep balls-- and he dropped them.

But Brown had such a good year in 2011 because the other team had to worry about Wallace going deep. When other teams caught on to the fact the Steelers were just trying to play the possession game, it was much easier to shut down their passing game.

THis is another one of your self-propogating beliefs. No team plays for just possession-- that is just plain stupid.

All teams play for points. It just so happens that possession was one of teh goals of this offense IN ADDITION to scoring.

Maintaining time of possession is a sound strategy. Especially when half your defense is on the wrong side of 30.

It worked against New England in 2010-- the key to slowing down the league's hig-flying passing attacks is to not allow them on the field by using a high-percentage passing game and keeping possession of the ball. Football 101.

lloydwoodson
02-06-2013, 03:04 PM
If you don't think Flacco has surpassed Roethlisberger recently you are a COMPLETE IDIOT. I'm just going to come out and say it. Flacco has thrown 18 tds vs 2 ints in his last 3 postseasons. In that time Roethlisberger has thrown 5 tds and 5 ints in the postseason. Yeah, all the Ben homers want to point out how bad Flacco was as a ROOKIE and as a SOPHOMORE. Why not look at his flawless postseason play since then? What part of 11 tds to 0 ints and a Superbowl MVP do you not understand?!

How good is Roethlisberger? Almost as good as Joe Flacco.

VaDave
02-06-2013, 03:07 PM
Riddle,

LOL!!! I married Negative Nancy.

Though I'm not an engineer, (something this world needs a lot more of IMO), but I do a fair amount of reclamation work of my own as a financial planner. Somethings need time to shake out. I'm sure you heard this one, "it didn't work out like we drew it up".

Edison had how many failures along the way, and yet history views him as a resounding success. What was Babe Ruth known for? Home Runs? Less known is that he struck out more than anybody for almost 50 years, until the 1980s, but he's still known as one of the best hitters in the history of the game.



As for Ben, there are things he does that drives me to distraction too. Then again, Bach wrote some music that I'm not real into as well, and my neighbors yard maintinence..... I digress

Seriously, Ben also had done some incredible work in his time here, and IMO, I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt more, and a better shake than he's getting , generally speaking.

Unfortunately, a fair amount of Steeler Nation has indeed gone over the edge, well beyond useful analysis, to the point of hysteria over a .500 season, and hence, this thread.

VaDave
02-06-2013, 03:11 PM
If you don't think Flacco has surpassed Roethlisberger recently you are a COMPLETE IDIOT. I'm just going to come out and say it. Flacco has thrown 18 tds vs 2 ints in his last 3 postseasons. In that time Roethlisberger has thrown 5 tds and 5 ints in the postseason. Yeah, all the Ben homers want to point out how bad Flacco was as a ROOKIE and as a SOPHOMORE. Why not look at his flawless postseason play since then? What part of 11 tds to 0 ints and a Superbowl MVP do you not understand?!

How good is Roethlisberger? Almost as good as Joe Flacco.

While I'll agree that Flacco is a good deal better than what he gets credit for in these parts, but lets give him a few more years before we ship him off to Canton. OK?

SteelersCanada
02-06-2013, 03:11 PM
If you don't think Flacco has surpassed Roethlisberger recently you are a COMPLETE IDIOT. I'm just going to come out and say it. Flacco has thrown 18 tds vs 2 ints in his last 3 postseasons. In that time Roethlisberger has thrown 5 tds and 5 ints in the postseason. Yeah, all the Ben homers want to point out how bad Flacco was as a ROOKIE and as a SOPHOMORE. Why not look at his flawless postseason play since then? What part of 11 tds to 0 ints and a Superbowl MVP do you not understand?!

How good is Roethlisberger? Almost as good as Joe Flacco.

There's literally 0 logic in this. I'm going to throw in what MasterPuppets said earlier today,

up untill this season there's no truth to that whatsoever.

2008
miami - 9-23-135 yds...0 tds
tenn - 11-22- 161 yds....1 td
pitt - 13-30-141 yds....0 td

2009
NE - 4-10-34 yds...0 td
indy - 20-35-189 yds....0 td

2010
KC - 25-34-265 yds....2 tds
pitt - 16-30-125 yds.......1 td

2011
hou - 14-27-176 yds .....2 tds
NE - 22-36-306........2 tds

whats so impressive here ? :noidea: the fact that he gets credit for a win while only completing 4 passes ? or the fact that they won 3 playoff games with flacco only throwing 1 td in those 3 games?

So, because Flacco played brutal secondaries like the Pats and 9ers, he's better than Roethlisberger? I'm going to throw this at you too - is he better than Drew Brees? Brees has had a pretty bad couple last postseason games as well, is Flacco taking over his seat?

I know what you're going to say. But, Flacco had a great regular season!!!!!one

No, he didn't.

59.7% completion, 3800 yards and 22 TDs in 16 games. Roethlisberger had more TDs, a higher completion % and less yards only because he played less games. Since you love stats so much, break those down for me please. I'd love to hear how Roethlisberger is almost as good as Flacco when he was playing behind a Frankenstein offensive line and no legitimate Running Backs. Flacco has both of these things, so the offense wasn't one-dimensional.

Saying blanket statements like this is flat out wrong, man. You like stats, I gave you some.

lloydwoodson
02-06-2013, 03:23 PM
There's literally 0 logic in this. I'm going to throw in what MasterPuppets said earlier today,



So, because Flacco played brutal secondaries like the Pats and 9ers, he's better than Roethlisberger? I'm going to throw this at you too - is he better than Drew Brees? Brees has had a pretty bad couple last postseason games as well, is Flacco taking over his seat?

I know what you're going to say. But, Flacco had a great regular season!!!!!one

No, he didn't.

59.7% completion, 3800 yards and 22 TDs in 16 games. Roethlisberger had more TDs, a higher completion % and less yards only because he played less games. Since you love stats so much, break those down for me please. I'd love to hear how Roethlisberger is almost as good as Flacco when he was playing behind a Frankenstein offensive line and no legitimate Running Backs. Flacco has both of these things, so the offense wasn't one-dimensional.

Saying blanket statements like this is flat out wrong, man. You like stats, I gave you some.

I don't care about regular season stats. Brees has had bad playoffs recently? Brees last 3 postseasons he has thrown 17 tds to 2 ints. If Brees had the Steelers defense he would win the Superbowl every year even with his 6th round WR, and UDFA offensive line. Brees threw for 462 yards and 4 tds in the last playoff game he lost.

Stats don't matter right? They must not or people would realise that Ben has been surpassed. Sorry, but Flacco is in the company of the all-time greats with the playoff performances he has put on.

Roethlisberger isn't going anywhere. Not sure why all you babies are crying like someone is going to take him away from you with a post. Fact is Roethlisberger isn't half as good as homers make him out to be.

Superbowl MVPs Flacco 1 - 1 Roethlisberger 0 - 3

Shouldn't you be pimping a first-round 4-3 DE who can't shed blocks and a new defensive coordinator right now? Lovie Smith is still available I believe.

lloydwoodson
02-06-2013, 03:30 PM
Got to spell it out for you dummies who still aren't getting it...

Flacco's first two postseasons: 1 TD 6 INTs Durrrrrr Flacco bad durrrrrr

Flacco's last 3 postseasons: 18 TDs 2 INTs Durrrrr Flacco good durrrrrr

Flacco was a dropped pass in the end zone from going to the Superbowl last year. The Ravens could have been 2x defending champs right now. That is the level Flacco is playing at.

In that time Roethlisberger lost a shootout to Tebow and sat at home watching the playoffs. Truth hurts but hey it is what it is.

SteelersCanada
02-06-2013, 03:32 PM
I don't care about regular season stats. Brees has had bad playoffs recently? Brees last 3 postseasons he has thrown 17 tds to 2 ints. If Brees had the Steelers defense he would win the Superbowl every year even with his 6th round WR, and UDFA offensive line. Brees threw for 462 yards and 4 tds in the last playoff game he lost.

Stats don't matter right? They must not or people would realise that Ben has been surpassed. Sorry, but Flacco is in the company of the all-time greats with the playoff performances he has put on.

Shouldn't you be pimping a first-round 4-3 DE who can't shed blocks and a new defensive coordinator right now? Lovie Smith is still available I believe.

So why do you have the need to keep throwing around Ben's regular season stats? I don't understand. Every topic you bring up Ben's inability to score, his yardage and his completion % and his QBR. But, now regular season stats don't matter when they go against every single part of your argument? Right, that makes sense. This is laughably hypocritical and ridiculous.

Joe Flacco, an all time great. I'm sorry, I found the new funniest thing I've read this week.

Yep, I'm still high on Dion Jordan, as are most scouts. Oh, I'm also high on a guy that won Coach of the Year, but no, you're right, you know better. You realize you're coming off as a clown, right?

Guys! Guys! Joe Flacco is an all time great Quarterback because he was beating terrible secondaries and won an MVP award that he had no business winning! Man oh man, can you believe this guy! Fuck our draft, trade all 7 picks for this years draft for Joe Flacco, an all time great Quarterback when he hasn't ever passed for more than 25 TDs or less than 10 INTs. Man, can you believe this guy? He's a superstar!

Oh, what's that? He hasn't ever had a completion % above 63? He hasn't ever passed for more than 4000 yards in a season? He still hasn't beaten the Steelers in the playoffs? But, man, this guy is an all time great!

So, Mr. Stats Man - do you see how stats can be thrown right back in your face?

I hope for you're sake you're kidding here because if you aren't, you and Blaze should go outback and continue to smoke whatever strong ass weed you guys have that's clouding your vision or the ability to generate a lucid thought. If this was a joke, it was a good one.

GoFor7
02-06-2013, 03:35 PM
Get off it. The Cowboys threw an Oline at us that was missing all of its starters and they handled James Harrison, Lamar Hampton, Hood, Kiesel, and the Hutt just fine.

Cowboys went 8-8 too genius. An 8-8 o-line stopped an 8-8 pass rush. I guess if the Steelers only face 8-8 pass rushes they'll be okay using your logic.

The Steelers have won two Superbowls in recent history with no deep threat at all besides Holmes.

Wallace's contribution to this offense is vastly overrated.

No it's not. Other teams feared Wallace's speed before 2012. He stretched the field and got the other WRs open. This season, he hardly went deep, and the other receivers struggled. Hmm. Wonder why?



LOL. You have been saying this for some time now, and it is no more true than it was a month ago.

Ben lives behind an Oline that has, count them, 2 1st round picks, and 2 2nd round picks. That is not a bad pedigree at all.

Not bad pedigree, but they are still very young.

He has one of the best TEs in the league to throw to.

A lot of other teams are using 2 TE sets. And Heath may not be ready for next season. What's the backup plan?

He had the fastest receiver in the NFL to throw to.

And that receiver wasn't used properly. He was limited to shorter routes which allowed the other team's defense to stack the box.

He had the first guy to earn 1000 yards receiving and 1000 yards on kick returns, and who scored a TD on his very first NFL play ever.

And that guy couldn't hold onto anything. Are you really this ignorant or do you just enjoy blaming Ben on everything?

About the only thing on that offensive unit you could criticize for being sub-par were the RBs.

They had an RB with skill, Tomlin benched him.



Not really. Brown and Sanders both had a fumble catastrophe this season each, but it was largely an isolated incident.

They were averaging at least two deep balls to Wallace per game. Anymore than that and you run the risk of making your offense one-dimensional and dependent on gimmicks (or you waste lots of downs throwing iincomplete passes and leaving your defense out to dry).

There is no reason why any #1 WR should only be able to be counted on while running a single type of route. Wallace got his deep balls-- and he dropped them.

Stats stats stats stats stats. Yo ding dong, watch the game. There is no way you can say the Steelers unleashed Ben early and often. They only did it when they needed him to bail the team out.



THis is another one of your self-propogating beliefs. No team plays for just possession-- that is just plain stupid.

All teams play for points. It just so happens that possession was one of teh goals of this offense IN ADDITION to scoring.

I don't know how anyone could have watched the Steelers this season and say they weren't limiting their own scoring chances. The Steelers were NOTHING like any of the playoff teams.

Only 2 of the 12 playoff teams were in top 5 in TOP. Houston and Seattle - both got bounced in the divisional round. I think it's safe to say the Steelers can trade some possession time for some points.

Maintaining time of possession is a sound strategy. Especially when half your defense is on the wrong side of 30.

Here's a way to help a defense: embrace modern football and score points. Let your QB throw the ball down field.

It worked against New England in 2010-- the key to slowing down the league's hig-flying passing attacks is to not allow them on the field by using a high-percentage passing game and keeping possession of the ball. Football 101.

Nice one genius. They got their asses kicked by New England in 2010.

You know why that short passing game worked so well against New England in 2011? The Patriots were scared to death of Wallace. They were worried Wallace would beat them deep, so Ben had the middle of the field. That didn't work this year because the Steelers didn't let Wallace run deep routes. That's hard for simple-minded yinzers to get, but it's true.


Like I said in the other thread, Artie/Haley lovers and Ben haters can quote stats all they want. If you actually watched the games, there is no way in hell you can say the Steelers unleashed Ben like better teams did with their star QBs.

If that's the kind of offense you all like, don't bitch when Ben can't be superman at the end of every game.

scottcurtis
02-06-2013, 03:44 PM
I agree completely. I am just saying that if you are going t cticize him, make sure its applied in the right place. I. Would not want ANY other QB including Tom Brady, Drew brees, or Aaron Rodgers. Yes I am dead serious.

Your a Big Ben fan then only...not a Steelers fan. Any one of those QB's would make the Steelers a better team.

Riddle_Of_Steel
02-06-2013, 03:51 PM
Joe Flacco, an all time great. I'm sorry, I found the new funniest thing I've read this week.

I will go out on a limb and disagree with you strongly here (I usually share many of your opinions around here).

He may not be an all-time great (obvious hyerbole), but he did just surpass Big Ben.

Guys! Guys! Joe Flacco is an all time great Quarterback because he was beating terrible secondaries and won an MVP award that he had no business winning!

For some reason though-- Big Ben was unable to beat that same "terrible secondary" the Broncos had.

How do you figure Flacco did not deserve that MVP award? Did you watch him play at all?

Man oh man, can you believe this guy! Fuck our draft, trade all 7 picks for this years draft for Joe Flacco, an all time great Quarterback when he hasn't ever passed for more than 25 TDs or less than 10 INTs. Man, can you believe this guy? He's a superstar!

Oh, what's that? He hasn't ever had a completion % above 63? He hasn't ever passed for more than 4000 yards in a season? He still hasn't beaten the Steelers in the playoffs? But, man, this guy is an all time great!

Hyperbole. Also a double standard. When people bring up any other QBs "gaudy fantasy stats"-- the excuse is that Ben has intangibles and "just wins" us playoff games.

Now that you want to bag on Joe Flacco-- now stats do matter because he never surpassed 25 TDs in a season? How many times has Ben won SB MVP in a season?

We say Brees passing for 5 million yards perseason does not matter-- only rings do. Well Flacco has his ring now, and his SB MVP. Maybe fantasy stats don't matter as much as "just winning"? Or is that only when we are talking about Ben?


I hope for you're sake you're kidding here because if you aren't, you and Blaze should go outback and continue to smoke whatever strong ass weed you guys have that's clouding your vision or the ability to generate a lucid thought. If this was a joke, it was a good one.

Weed doesn't do that. Alcohol does.

Steelers5895
02-06-2013, 03:54 PM
So why do you have the need to keep throwing around Ben's regular season stats? I don't understand. Every topic you bring up Ben's inability to score, his yardage and his completion % and his QBR. But, now regular season stats don't matter when they go against every single part of your argument? Right, that makes sense. This is laughably hypocritical and ridiculous.

Joe Flacco, an all time great. I'm sorry, I found the new funniest thing I've read this week.

Yep, I'm still high on Dion Jordan, as are most scouts. Oh, I'm also high on a guy that won Coach of the Year, but no, you're right, you know better. You realize you're coming off as a clown, right?

Guys! Guys! Joe Flacco is an all time great Quarterback because he was beating terrible secondaries and won an MVP award that he had no business winning! Man oh man, can you believe this guy! Fuck our draft, trade all 7 picks for this years draft for Joe Flacco, an all time great Quarterback when he hasn't ever passed for more than 25 TDs or less than 10 INTs. Man, can you believe this guy? He's a superstar!

Oh, what's that? He hasn't ever had a completion % above 63? He hasn't ever passed for more than 4000 yards in a season? He still hasn't beaten the Steelers in the playoffs? But, man, this guy is an all time great!

So, Mr. Stats Man - do you see how stats can be thrown right back in your face?

I hope for you're sake you're kidding here because if you aren't, you and Blaze should go outback and continue to smoke whatever strong ass weed you guys have that's clouding your vision or the ability to generate a lucid thought. If this was a joke, it was a good one.

you are talking to the wall. this is the same guy who says Chad Brown was an OLB. The idiot has a screen name of LLoyd and didnt even know Brown played OLB only in 1996 full time AFTER Lloyd went out in game 1. ignore him he isnt a Steelers fan

Riddle_Of_Steel
02-06-2013, 03:59 PM
Cowboys went 8-8 too genius. An 8-8 o-line stopped an 8-8 pass rush. I guess if the Steelers only face 8-8 pass rushes they'll be okay using your logic.

What is an "8-8 pass rush"? I thought they were rated based on the number of sacks, hurries, knockdowns, etc.

You can have an elite pass rush and still finish out at 1-15. I don't know where you were going with that. Your final record does not dictate the quality of your pass rush.

Even if it did-- your logic is still busted. The Cowboys' "8-8 Oline" owned our "8-8 pass rush" hands down.

No it's not. Other teams feared Wallace's speed before 2012. He stretched the field and got the other WRs open. This season, he hardly went deep, and the other receivers struggled. Hmm. Wonder why?

I have not looked in a while, but I believe that if you check the stats, there was no significant drop-off in the number of deep passes attempted this year, or the number of 40+ yard plays.

The other receivers did not struggle, so much as they did not have the ball thrown their way because everyone is too fixated on Wallace and his blinding speed.

And that receiver wasn't used properly. He was limited to shorter routes which allowed the other team's defense to stack the box.

You keep saying this, yet you have yet to prove to anybody that a #1 WR should only be used for deep balls. As a #1 WR, he should be available and capable of having success running ALL TYPES OF ROUTES. That is what makes a COMPLETE RECEIVER as opposed to a one trick pony.



And that guy couldn't hold onto anything. Are you really this ignorant or do you just enjoy blaming Ben on everything?



They had an RB with skill, Tomlin benched him.





Stats stats stats stats stats. Yo ding dong, watch the game. There is no way you can say the Steelers unleashed Ben early and often. They only did it when they needed him to bail the team out.





I don't know how anyone could have watched the Steelers this season and say they weren't limiting their own scoring chances. The Steelers were NOTHING like any of the playoff teams.

Only 2 of the 12 playoff teams were in top 5 in TOP. Houston and Seattle - both got bounced in the divisional round. I think it's safe to say the Steelers can trade some possession time for some points.



Here's a way to help a defense: embrace modern football and score points. Let your QB throw the ball down field.



Nice one genius. They got their asses kicked by New England in 2010.

You know why that short passing game worked so well against New England in 2011? The Patriots were scared to death of Wallace. They were worried Wallace would beat them deep, so Ben had the middle of the field. That didn't work this year because the Steelers didn't let Wallace run deep routes. That's hard for simple-minded yinzers to get, but it's true.


Like I said in the other thread, Artie/Haley lovers and Ben haters can quote stats all they want. If you actually watched the games, there is no way in hell you can say the Steelers unleashed Ben like better teams did with their star QBs.

If that's the kind of offense you all like, don't bitch when Ben can't be superman at the end of every game.[/QUOTE]

SteelersCanada
02-06-2013, 04:02 PM
I will go out on a limb and disagree with you strongly here (I usually share many of your opinions around here).

He may not be an all-time great (obvious hyerbole), but he did just surpass Big Ben.

How? How did he pass Ben at all? He won a Super Bowl MVP award? Great, Ben should've won one back in '08, but Santonio got it because of the toes catch.

For some reason though-- Big Ben was unable to beat that same "terrible secondary" the Broncos had.

Actually, he was beating the Broncos, but our defense couldn't stop a nosebleed in the first half of the season. That's not on Roethlisberger.

How do you figure Flacco did not deserve that MVP award? Did you watch him play at all?

Jacoby Jones deserved it. 108 yard KR and a 75 yard ball he had to come back to and made Joe look very good. I'm sorry, shredding a secondary where the starting CB and Safeties are Rogers and Donte Whitner, respectively, isn't impressive to me.

Hyperbole. Also a double standard. When people bring up any other QBs "gaudy fantasy stats"-- the excuse is that Ben has intangibles and "just wins" us playoff games.

This is specific to Lloyd as his constant berating and bashing of Roethlisberger is because he doesn't put up amazing statistics, but Flacco doesn't have to and he's already one of the all time greats? Where's the logic?

Now that you want to bag on Joe Flacco-- now stats do matter because he never surpassed 25 TDs in a season? How many times has Ben won SB MVP in a season?

Again, specific to the stats-show-how-good-a-qb is argument that Lloyd loves so much, until he calls Flacco one of the best of all time and has no stable ground to fall back on because Flacco's stats are complete garbage in the regular season.

We say Brees passing for 5 million yards perseason does not matter-- only rings do. Well Flacco has his ring now, and his SB MVP. Maybe fantasy stats don't matter as much as "just winning"? Or is that only when we are talking about Ben?

I've been trying to explain this very point to him dozens of times. No, stats don't matter, winning does. But, he's not saying Flacco is one of the greatest of all time because of his wins - he's saying he's one of the greatest of all time because he won one Super Bowl and threw 11 TDs to 0 INTs in one playoff. Notice the amount of times I said "one" there.

Look, Flacco is a good, not great, QB. To put him in the conversation of greatest of all time because of playoff stats is absolutely ridiculous. How about we go by his regular season stats? Why isn't it fair to bring them both into the conversation without completely throwing one away? Why? Because it makes his entire argument fall apart and look ridiculous.

Weed doesn't do that. Alcohol does.

I don't know man, weed laced with some strong stuff would do it.

scottcurtis
02-06-2013, 04:14 PM
I guess that makes Colbert an idiot !

lloydwoodson
02-06-2013, 04:14 PM
you are talking to the wall. this is the same guy who says Chad Brown was an OLB. The idiot has a screen name of LLoyd and didnt even know Brown played OLB only in 1996 full time AFTER Lloyd went out in game 1. ignore him he isnt a Steelers fan

Someone should have told the Seahawks that Brown wasn't an OLB because he played 8 straight years at OLB for them. Maybe Brown couldn't play his natural position at OLB because Lloyd was better than him and Kevin Greene was better than him? :noidea:

Riddle_Of_Steel
02-06-2013, 04:20 PM
Cowboys went 8-8 too genius. An 8-8 o-line stopped an 8-8 pass rush. I guess if the Steelers only face 8-8 pass rushes they'll be okay using your logic.

What is an "8-8 pass rush"? I thought they were rated based on the number of sacks, hurries, knockdowns, etc.

You can have an elite pass rush and still finish out at 1-15. I don't know where you were going with that. Your final record does not dictate the quality of your pass rush.

Even if it did-- your logic is still busted. The Cowboys' "8-8 Oline" owned our "8-8 pass rush" hands down.

No it's not. Other teams feared Wallace's speed before 2012. He stretched the field and got the other WRs open. This season, he hardly went deep, and the other receivers struggled. Hmm. Wonder why?

I have not looked in a while, but I believe that if you check the stats, there was no significant drop-off in the number of deep passes attempted this year, or the number of 40+ yard plays.

The other receivers did not struggle, so much as they did not have the ball thrown their way because everyone is too fixated on Wallace and his blinding speed.

And that receiver wasn't used properly. He was limited to shorter routes which allowed the other team's defense to stack the box.

You keep saying this, yet you have yet to prove to anybody that a #1 WR should only be used for deep balls. As a #1 WR, he should be available and capable of having success running ALL TYPES OF ROUTES. That is what makes a COMPLETE RECEIVER as opposed to a one trick pony.

And that guy couldn't hold onto anything. Are you really this ignorant or do you just enjoy blaming Ben on everything?

I just checked. Antonio Brown is creditted with 2 fumbles this year.

2 FUMBLES over the course of 15 games = "can't hold on to anything"? I guess I am ignorant.

They had an RB with skill, Tomlin benched him.

I agree with you 100% on this. I think you and I are about the only two people who still think they should keeep Mendy next year.

Stats stats stats stats stats. Yo ding dong, watch the game. There is no way you can say the Steelers unleashed Ben early and often. They only did it when they needed him to bail the team out.

"Bail them out" from what? They unleashed Ben on every 3rd down-- hence his outrageous 3rd down coversion percentage this year prior to the injury.

You do realize that the objective this year was to protect Ben more? You do realize that running a shorter, high percentage passing offense is not mutually exclusive to scoring points?

For all your big talk about not unleashing Ben, we ranked pretty much the same in scoring on offense this year as we did in other years when they unleashed Ben.

I don't know how anyone could have watched the Steelers this season and say they weren't limiting their own scoring chances. The Steelers were NOTHING like any of the playoff teams.

You are the only person that has been making this claim.

Only 2 of the 12 playoff teams were in top 5 in TOP. Houston and Seattle - both got bounced in the divisional round. I think it's safe to say the Steelers can trade some possession time for some points.

Once again, you don't have to trade possession time for points. They are not mutually exclusive. You can do both.

Again, we did not move up or down significantly from our scoring rank last year when they weren't "limiting their scoring chances".

Also, comparing us to the other playoff teams is irrelevant-- they do not have the same situation as us. Seattle has a young, talented defense. We had a defense that was made up of a bunch of veterans on the wrong side of 30. In past seasons, they demonstrated quite clearly that if left out on the field too long-- they fold like a lawnchair.

Here's a way to help a defense: embrace modern football and score points. Let your QB throw the ball down field.

It did not seem to make much difference. We have been hovering around 21st in scoring for the last several years, regardless of what offensive scheme we are running.

Also, if I am not mistaken, we were #2 in ToP last year as well. Were we "limiting our scoring chances" then too?

Nice one genius. They got their asses kicked by New England in 2010.

Whoopdeedoo-- I was off by a year. You know what game I am referring to.

You know why that short passing game worked so well against New England in 2011? The Patriots were scared to death of Wallace. They were worried Wallace would beat them deep, so Ben had the middle of the field. That didn't work this year because the Steelers didn't let Wallace run deep routes. That's hard for simple-minded yinzers to get, but it's true.

It seemed to be working just fine until Ben got hurt. And again, we ranked pretty much the same in scoring this year as last. Neither reality helps your position out at all.

Like I said in the other thread, Artie/Haley lovers and Ben haters can quote stats all they want. If you actually watched the games, there is no way in hell you can say the Steelers unleashed Ben like better teams did with their star QBs.

Translation: No matter what evidence is presented, I will stubbornly stick to my unsupported assumption.

If that's the kind of offense you all like, don't bitch when Ben can't be superman at the end of every game.

Well, that's the thing-- he was not Superman in any game this year when that situation came up. I think it was due to extenuating circumstances, but it is what it is.

And can we please avoid the name-calling? I am all for a respectful, two-way conversation. Not here to flame you guys or be a pain in the ass. I have respect for you, and often agree with you or back you up when I think you are right about something. Can you show the same courtesy?

Riddle_Of_Steel
02-06-2013, 04:34 PM
How? How did he pass Ben at all? He won a Super Bowl MVP award? Great, Ben should've won one back in '08, but Santonio got it because of the toes catch.

I agree, but look at it objectively. If situations were reversed, and a Ravens fan tried to tell you the same thing-- you would accuse them of making excuses.

Actually, he was beating the Broncos, but our defense couldn't stop a nosebleed in the first half of the season. That's not on Roethlisberger.

Would help if we could score mroe than 21 points per game too, wouldn't it? When the whole team plays great and we win-- then it is Ben that "just wins, baby". When we lose games it is everybody but Ben's fault...

Jacoby Jones deserved it. 108 yard KR and a 75 yard ball he had to come back to and made Joe look very good. I'm sorry, shredding a secondary where the starting CB and Safeties are Rogers and Donte Whitner, respectively, isn't impressive to me.

The 49ers' defense was no slouch this year. It isn't like they have a bunch of glass-jawed palookas playing in their secondary.

This is specific to Lloyd as his constant berating and bashing of Roethlisberger is because he doesn't put up amazing statistics, but Flacco doesn't have to and he's already one of the all time greats? Where's the logic?

I think the problem is perspective. We want to loook at career-long stats when it benefits our guy, and then only look at a few games or a single playoff run when it doesn't.

Flacco may not have had any 4000-yard seasons or surpassed 25 TDs in a season, but that has no bearing on where he is NOW. Right NOW, he just played a better postseason than Ben has since 2005 and won SB MVP. The eprception is that Flacco's stock is headed north, while Big Ben's is headed south.

I think it was due to the injury, but you can't fault Lloyd for his position. It is based on facts and the here and now.

Again, specific to the stats-show-how-good-a-qb is argument that Lloyd loves so much, until he calls Flacco one of the best of all time and has no stable ground to fall back on because Flacco's stats are complete garbage in the regular season.

But aren't we the fanbase that always tells Saints fans and Patriots fans that gaudy regular season stats don't matter? Only postseason performance does?

I've been trying to explain this very point to him dozens of times. No, stats don't matter, winning does. But, he's not saying Flacco is one of the greatest of all time because of his wins - he's saying he's one of the greatest of all time because he won one Super Bowl and threw 11 TDs to 0 INTs in one playoff. Notice the amount of times I said "one" there.

I think the point is that, not only did Flacco win, but that he did it very cleanly, and he compiled a better set of postseason stats than all but one of Ben's seasons under center.

Look, Flacco is a good, not great, QB. To put him in the conversation of greatest of all time because of playoff stats is absolutely ridiculous. How about we go by his regular season stats?

Why would we? We are the fanbase that has lived by the matra that 'fantasy stats don';t matter-- only championships'. It has been our rebuttal for Drew Brees, Rodgers, and Peyton Maning fans for years now.

Are we saying that Flacco has caused us to abandon our original gameplan?

lloydwoodson
02-06-2013, 04:36 PM
@SteelersCanada here is what I actually said about Flacco.

"Sorry, but Flacco is in the company of the all-time greats with the playoff performances he has put on. "

Flacco has put on a performance comparable to the all-time greats. 11 TDs and 0 INTs is one of the best performances in a playoffs ever.

Joe Montana in 89-90 also had an 11 TD 0 INT playoffs.

Kurt Warner in 08-09 had an 11 TD 3 INT playoffs.

Steve Young in 94-95 had a 9 TD 0 INT playoffs.

Aikman in 92-93 had a 8 TD 0 INT playoffs.

Elway's best playoffs was 3 TD 1 INT, Roethlisberger's best was 7 TDs 3 INTs, Marino's best was 5 TD 0 INT... get the picture?

Flacco had one of the greatest playoff performances ever. You could make an argument that it was the best playoff performance ever.

Flacco beat Peyton Manning in Denver and Tom Brady in New England to get to the Superbowl. Flacco beat 2 of the best quarterbacks ever on the road to get to the Superbowl. Take a minute and let that soak in.

Take a deep breath and say it with me, "Joe Flacco, based on his recent performance, has solidified himself as the best quarterback in the AFC North."

I do look at regular season stats to determine how good quarterbacks are. That is why I do not think of Flacco as an all-time great- but his performance when it has mattered over the last 3 seasons has been at an all-time level.

Flacco's scoring offenses consistently rank middle of the pack in the regular season- the same as Roethlisberger. That is why I think both of them are not great quarterbacks. To me to be considered one of the best quarterbacks ever your team has to score more points than any other team one time in a regular season.

Bayz101
02-06-2013, 04:40 PM
Just like Antonio Brown, after injury, Ben wasn't the same player.

When the offensive line blocks well, Ben tends to step up into the pocket and make accurate, lightning-fast throws, and as long as the offensive line stays healthy, Ben will, too.

Not worried about the receivers, not worried about the defense. A decent running game coupled with a strong pocket for Big Ben, and all those hating on him this offseason will love him next season.

You can bet on that.

lloydwoodson
02-06-2013, 04:49 PM
Just like Antonio Brown, after injury, Ben wasn't the same player.

When the offensive line blocks well, Ben tends to step up into the pocket and make accurate, lightning-fast throws, and as long as the offensive line stays healthy, Ben will, too.

Not worried about the receivers, not worried about the defense. A decent running game coupled with a strong pocket for Big Ben, and all those hating on him this offseason will love him next season.

You can bet on that.

There are some people making posts about trading Roethlisberger which is lunacy and will never happen.

Criticism of Ben is valid. "This is a quarterback's league" and "Teams are only as good as their quarterback" go out the window when addressing the Steelers routinely pedestrian offense. "It is everyone's fault but Ben's!" becomes the rallying cry of the homers.

I think Ben will have the best years of his career under Haley if he can learn to keep his mouth shut and that the world does not revolve around him. Ben isn't going anywhere and neither are the countless fanboys and their mancrushes that cry and pout every time someone points out that Roethlisberger has never led a top NFL offense or that there are several quarterbacks who have vastly outperformed him in recent history.

Penn
02-06-2013, 05:00 PM
I guess everyone wants Slash/Tommy Maddox/Kent Graham again

SMFH

Yinzers need to do a little yes yinzing in my opinion

lloydwoodson
02-06-2013, 05:08 PM
I guess everyone wants Slash/Tommy Maddox/Kent Graham again

SMFH

Yinzers need to do a little yes yinzing in my opinion

"Ben is better than the crappy 80s quarterbacks! Leave him alone! I have low standards! I am comparing the "New NFL" to the 80s! You aren't allowed to compare Ben to Brees, P Manning, Brady or Rodgers only to Graham, Maddox, Brister and Malone! Wahhhhhh! Finishing 22nd in scoring is fine by me!"

FrancoLambert
02-06-2013, 05:12 PM
Ben is not exempt from evaluation and criticism.

Ben needs to work harder and ditch the gloves.

I would not trade Ben for Flacco......but check back after next season.

His O-line lets him down too way too often.

At a very mdiocre 8-8, there's plenty of criticism to dish out.

Bayz101
02-06-2013, 05:23 PM
There are some people making posts about trading Roethlisberger which is lunacy and will never happen.

Criticism of Ben is valid. "This is a quarterback's league" and "Teams are only as good as their quarterback" go out the window when addressing the Steelers routinely pedestrian offense. "It is everyone's fault but Ben's!" becomes the rallying cry of the homers.

I think Ben will have the best years of his career under Haley if he can learn to keep his mouth shut and that the world does not revolve around him. Ben isn't going anywhere and neither are the countless fanboys and their mancrushes that cry and pout every time someone points out that Roethlisberger has never led a top NFL offense or that there are several quarterbacks who have vastly outperformed him in recent history.

Criticism is always warranted, and you've made that VERY, VERY clear. But you can keep that "other quarterback" shit to yourself. I've run out of fucks to give when it comes to how ANYONE on our team matches up against ANYONE on any other team in the NFL.

I'm Black & Gold. We've won two Super Bowl's and been to Three in Ben's career thus far, and if you're not happy with that, you're a very selfish man.

We haven't even had a losing season under Ben, and we haven't had one since Cowher was coach, and if Ben stays healthy with the help of a healthy offensive line, I truly believe that'll be more than enough to get us deep into the playoffs and possibly even within reach of #7.

Gnutella
02-06-2013, 06:10 PM
The other 10 players on the Ravens offense got more talented as Joe Flacco got better. The other 10 players on the Steelers offense got less talented as Ben Roethlisberger got better. People talk all day long about how football is a team sport, well there you go. And fuck the defense for a moment; a QB is never on the field with his defense. A good defense can help a team win games, but it does very little to help a QB's individual performance, aside from giving him shorter field position on average. It's the 10 players around the QB who help (or harm) his individual performance, and the fact is, all the Steelers have been since 2008 is a defense and a QB. The other 10 players on offense have been the definition of below average.

By the way, is Jim Plunkett better than Brett Favre? Plunkett has a Super Bowl MVP award, and Favre does not. Hell, Mark Rypien was solid early in his career, getting voted to the Pro Bowl in 1989 and 1991, and kicking ass through the 1991 post-season en route to winning Super Bowl XXVI and the MVP award, but then he fell off a fucking cliff in 1992 and never recovered. He threw 21 TD passes and 30 INTs from 1992 through 1997, and was no longer with the Redskins after 1993. He had a similar career trajectory to Amy Winehouse: kick ass early, reach the pinnacle of your profession early, and then go straight into the trash. Let's see a bit more body of work from Joe Flacco before we start preferring him to our own franchise QB.

lloydwoodson
02-06-2013, 06:29 PM
Criticism is always warranted, and you've made that VERY, VERY clear. But you can keep that "other quarterback" shit to yourself. I've run out of fucks to give when it comes to how ANYONE on our team matches up against ANYONE on any other team in the NFL.

I'm Black & Gold. We've won two Super Bowl's and been to Three in Ben's career thus far, and if you're not happy with that, you're a very selfish man.
We haven't even had a losing season under Ben, and we haven't had one since Cowher was coach, and if Ben stays healthy with the help of a healthy offensive line, I truly believe that'll be more than enough to get us deep into the playoffs and possibly even within reach of #7.

I was a Steelers fan 10 years before they won a Superbowl.

I think you have me misunderstood. I wouldn't change this team at all if it was my choice. I want Wallace back. I want Mendenhall back. I want Dwyer back. Roethlisberger will be the Steelers quarterback until he retires. My preference would be that the Steelers continue to add through the draft and ignore free agency.

There are some Steelers I would cut/trade but that is pure fantasy since it is not my decision to make and I would rather not dump on current Steelers.

The reason I am so quick to criticize Ben is that so few people do on this forum. Contrary to this BS idea that Steelers quarterbacks have it harder than quarterbacks anywhere else in the league- Roethlisberger is hailed as a God for leading the 22nd, 21st, 12th, 12th and 20th scoring offenses over the last 5 years.

The Steelers are 6-7 without Ben. That is a pretty damn good record with a backup quarterback. If you don't think there are 10 quarterbacks that could come into Pittsburgh and make the team a Superbowl contender you are deluding yourself.

The bottom line is I like watching Roethlisberger on Sundays. My posts are addressed to the fanatics who imagine that Roethlisberger is one of the greatest quarterbacks ever to lace them up and that the Steelers as a whole are a garbage team that could not win without him. You don't notice that every Ben lover routinely throws the entire team under the bus when the Steelers don't win? Do you think that Roethlisberger would have two rings right now if he had been drafted by the Browns?

zcoop
02-06-2013, 07:38 PM
I was a Steelers fan 10 years before they won a Superbowl.

I think you have me misunderstood. I wouldn't change this team at all if it was my choice. I want Wallace back. I want Mendenhall back. I want Dwyer back. Roethlisberger will be the Steelers quarterback until he retires. My preference would be that the Steelers continue to add through the draft and ignore free agency.

There are some Steelers I would cut/trade but that is pure fantasy since it is not my decision to make and I would rather not dump on current Steelers.

The reason I am so quick to criticize Ben is that so few people do on this forum. Contrary to this BS idea that Steelers quarterbacks have it harder than quarterbacks anywhere else in the league- Roethlisberger is hailed as a God for leading the 22nd, 21st, 12th, 12th and 20th scoring offenses over the last 5 years.

The Steelers are 6-7 without Ben. That is a pretty damn good record with a backup quarterback. If you don't think there are 10 quarterbacks that could come into Pittsburgh and make the team a Superbowl contender you are deluding yourself.

The bottom line is I like watching Roethlisberger on Sundays. My posts are addressed to the fanatics who imagine that Roethlisberger is one of the greatest quarterbacks ever to lace them up and that the Steelers as a whole are a garbage team that could not win without him. You don't notice that every Ben lover routinely throws the entire team under the bus when the Steelers don't win? Do you think that Roethlisberger would have two rings right now if he had been drafted by the Browns?

I've read and agree with most of your posts in this thread. You're right in your assessment that other players are fair game while Ben is not to be criitiqued by many on this board. However, I think we had an all around bad year on the offensive side of the ball. Miller is about the only one who had a really good year. If a player gets the praise when the team wins, he damn well should get blame when the team loses. JMHO.

casteeler
02-06-2013, 09:07 PM
You realize this was all said after the 2009 season, right? Everything you just said has been said before.

Now, I thought it was ridiculous before and now, if it's possible, I think it's more ridiculous now. For you to come out and say Flacco could be taking over Roethlisberger because of 4 good games he had is ridiculous. You know who had a great regular season? Matt Ryan. Is Matt Ryan taking over Ben's seat now, too?

Look at Flacco's playoff stats before these four games and tell me this Quarterback is going to strike fear into anyone. He isn't. He's average and the front office of the Ravens knows it.

My answer for how much longer will Ben be better than Flacco? Until Ben hangs 'em up. He's done more with less and he's won a Super Bowl with the worst offensive line this team has ever seen. Flacco has viable targets at RB, WR and TE and we're all clamoring over him because he had a good postseason? His regular season stats were mediocre. It's amazing how hot and cold this fanbase is after one average season.

Read my Post. I agree Ben is better but my point is that EVENTUALLY the Steelers will have to replace him and Ben will be on Season #10 next season. You and I have argued this before I believe Ben has maximum 3 seasons left. Regardless of the stats Flacco Won a Superbowl,he made the throws and avoided throwing INTs so Flacco played a heck better than people are willing to give him credit for.

Riddle_Of_Steel
02-06-2013, 11:35 PM
But you can keep that "other quarterback" shit to yourself. I've run out of fucks to give when it comes to how ANYONE on our team matches up against ANYONE on any other team in the NFL.

That is pretty asinine. I have seen you post better, man.

I'm Black & Gold. We've won two Super Bowl's and been to Three in Ben's career thus far, and if you're not happy with that, you're a very selfish man.

So you are content with the sub-par season we had based on past successes? What is the statute of limitations on past superbowls? 10 years after our last SB ring? 15 years?

We haven't even had a losing season under Ben, and we haven't had one since Cowher was coach, and if Ben stays healthy with the help of a healthy offensive line, I truly believe that'll be more than enough to get us deep into the playoffs and possibly even within reach of #7.

True.

Riddle_Of_Steel
02-06-2013, 11:41 PM
The bottom line is I like watching Roethlisberger on Sundays. My posts are addressed to the fanatics who imagine that Roethlisberger is one of the greatest quarterbacks ever to lace them up and that the Steelers as a whole are a garbage team that could not win without him. You don't notice that every Ben lover routinely throws the entire team under the bus when the Steelers don't win? Do you think that Roethlisberger would have two rings right now if he had been drafted by the Browns?

Thank you. Couldn't have said it any better myself.

I for one, value objective analysis. I fully believe that Ben will be back to form come next season. Like any successful season, a lot of things had to align for this rotten season to happen. Fluke injuries, new coordinator, aging vets on defense, etc.

Right now, I am thinking that Ben is the least of our worries. We pretty much know what to expect from him.

The big concern for me this offseason, is how some of the new faces are going to perform as they step into starting roles for the first time this next season. We are looking at a LOT of roster turnover this offseason, and a LOT of ????'s

We have seen flashes of brilliance from Heyward, but what are we going to see when he is given the keys to the corvette this season and is in there for 3/4 of the snaps?

How will Big Steve do at NT full time?

Who do we turn our ground game over to? Mendy coming back or a new face?

Can we keep Keenan and Ike both?

Yeah, we have a lot of question marks this next season, and Ben, is NOT one of them.

The Steelers said they aren't "married" to anybody, but if there are two players that MUST come back next year, it is Ben and.... (I have only recently changed my mind on this one) Polamalu. Troy gets hurt a lot, but he was almost his old self again near the end as he finally got healthy. He still has IT, and we need that to get ring numero 7.

lloydwoodson
02-07-2013, 02:25 AM
Right now, I am thinking that Ben is the least of our worries. We pretty much know what to expect from him.


I think this sums it up perfectly. The thing is there are a lot of people who believe that Roethlisberger is capable of putting up regular 30 point games despite 9 years of evidence to the contrary.

Ben is not a structured quarterback. Timing routes and adjustments are not his specialty though he has improved over the years. Roethlisberger's offenses put up 23 ppg under Whisenhunt when he threw the ball 25 times and 23 ppg when he threw the ball 35 times under Arians.

Roethlisberger is a known entity. He is not a quarterback you want to get into a shootout with. Roethlisberger is a quarterback you want when the game is close in the 4th quarter. The Steelers front office knows this, Tomlin knows this and Haley knows this.

The changes that have already started with the Steelers is a larger focus on production from running back and more attention to the OL. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the personnel on the Steelers. The team just needs to buy into the offense and gel.

Steeldude
02-07-2013, 05:32 AM
Wrong.

Explain. Why do you employ double-standards?

Steelers5895
02-07-2013, 08:31 AM
I can only think of a hand full of quarterbacks i would take over Ben.

Brady, Rodgers, Brees and Peyton manning now that he has shown he is back. Three only have one ring and minimal playoff sucess but when you factor in unbelievable regular seasons year after year and a championship they are the 4 top qbs.

under that 4 is Ben, Eli , Flacco now is here based on playoff success and Super Bowls. Regular season stats are under the above 4 but these 2 have the track record to have come backs and to win championships

The next level:
Ryan, Romo, Shaub, Rivers (although falling fast),

I am not ready to put the RG3's in any class yet as they have not produced consustently. next year cam newton could be in the third tier

so, based on that, I am happy we have one of the top 7 qbs in a league of 32.

maddog78
02-07-2013, 09:17 AM
Are you actually suggesting that we trade our franchise quarterback at 30 years old (who, I will say again, was having a near-MVP caliber season before his injury) for a 4th-round pick who had one decent drive? That is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard in my entire life. Lets see what the reaction is in Pittsburgh if that happens.

It's the silly season. Steelers miss playoffs, people go overboard. Kirk Cousins could very well be the next Kevin Kolb.

Steelers5895
02-07-2013, 11:01 AM
I guess some of the people here werent around for the David Woodley, Todd Blackledge, then Bubby Brister Era.

They may also missed the Mike Tomczack, Kordell, Kent Graham, Jim Miller era too.

We have a franchise quarterback who has been a part of 2 Super Bowl wins. he is in the top 7, maybe even top 5 . he is tougher than ANY OTHER QB, he can throw the long ball, extend plays, add touch to his passes or whip them in, solid on thrid down, spreads the ball around and extend plays.

can someone tell me what he doesnt do?

aa14
02-07-2013, 11:10 AM
For the next season I'd put Ben in between Schaub and Palmer. I can't see him performing at a high level in the 2nd half of the season and he has his o-line to blame for that. Normally the Steelers would be heavy favourites against the Bengals but next season I'd be shocked if it wasn't a split series. Ben never has been the problem but I think that changes come next november.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-07-2013, 12:19 PM
For the next season I'd put Ben in between Schaub and Palmer. I can't see him performing at a high level in the 2nd half of the season and he has his o-line to blame for that. Normally the Steelers would be heavy favourites against the Bengals but next season I'd be shocked if it wasn't a split series. Ben never has been the problem but I think that changes come next november.

Don't you have something better to do? there's forums for Raven fans on the internet to you know...But since you're here alot I guess that shows that you Purple Brown fans are really that obsessed with the Steelers smh.

And stfu don't worry whats going on with the Steelers unless you're really worried that we will be making a comeback next season(we will) and there's a good chance you'll be watching your Ravens battle the Browns for 3rd place in the division next season....

Btw you should not worry about Ben cause you should be talking about Charlie Batch since he beat the Ravens at there house last season and sad thing is he outperformed Flacco. :rofl:

aa14
02-07-2013, 02:41 PM
Don't you have something better to do? there's forums for Raven fans on the internet to you know...But since you're here alot I guess that shows that you Purple Brown fans are really that obsessed with the Steelers smh.

And stfu don't worry whats going on with the Steelers unless you're really worried that we will be making a comeback next season(we will) and there's a good chance you'll be watching your Ravens battle the Browns for 3rd place in the division next season....

Btw you should not worry about Ben cause you should be talking about Charlie Batch since he beat the Ravens at there house last season and sad thing is he outperformed Flacco. :rofl:

Wow, sorry I have a different opinion than you? Getting a little defensive there. You want this forum to consist of one big Ben circle jerk? I'm just calling it as I see it. Ben has been the best QB in the division and at times the entire NFL but I think the youth @ QB in the division is going to be harder and harder going forward for the Steelers. :tt:

truesteelerfan
02-07-2013, 02:46 PM
Ben is STILL hands down the best QB in the AFC North - Flacco got hot in the playoffs, but stunk it up the end of the regular season - Cin's QB still is getting better, and who knows about the Brown's QB - probably someone new again next year. I HOPE the ratbirds sign Flacco to a 20+M/year contract - go ahead and overpay for someone who had 4 great weeks.

aa14
02-07-2013, 02:49 PM
Ben is STILL hands down the best QB in the AFC North - Flacco got hot in the playoffs, but stunk it up the end of the regular season - Cin's QB still is getting better, and who knows about the Brown's QB - probably someone new again next year. I HOPE the ratbirds sign Flacco to a 20+M/year contract - go ahead and overpay for someone who had 4 great weeks.

Getting rid of Cameron was the best thing for Flacco's career and since then, aside from Caldwell's first game as OC, Flacco has lit it up. Next season I see no reason that doesn't continue. Ozzie isn't going to let the team fall apart, that's wishful thinking.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-07-2013, 03:05 PM
Wow, sorry I have a different opinion than you? Getting a little defensive there. You want this forum to consist of one big Ben circle jerk? I'm just calling it as I see it. Ben has been the best QB in the division and at times the entire NFL but I think the youth @ QB in the division is going to be harder and harder going forward for the Steelers. :tt:

I know its your opinion but the thing is you're not a Steelers fan so why are you here?

"but I think the youth @ QB in the division is going to be harder and harder going forward for the Steelers." hahah who Dalton? Flacco? haha please sit down. And like I said a 37-38 year old back up named Charlie Batch beat Flacco at his house so what do you mean youth @ QB in the division....just think if Ben played in that game.

Now go on somewhere else you have no business being here :wave:

aa14
02-07-2013, 03:36 PM
I know its your opinion but the thing is you're not a Steelers fan so why are you here?

"but I think the youth @ QB in the division is going to be harder and harder going forward for the Steelers." hahah who Dalton? Flacco? haha please sit down. And like I said a 37-38 year old back up named Charlie Batch beat Flacco at his house so what do you mean youth @ QB in the division....just think if Ben played in that game.

Now go on somewhere else you have no business being here :wave:

I think Dalton is already on pace to surpass Ben this season. Flacco is a top 5 QB and the newest member of the Super Bowl MVP club so I'm not going to argue that one. Why do you guys keep bringing up Charlie Batch? Bad QB's and bad teams beat better teams all the time, it's part of the game. It was a good win for your organization but I think if you guys made it to the playoffs this past season you probably would have been one and done. Again, I think the Steelers are in the running for a playoff berth next season but it come down to you and CIN battling over the WC.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-07-2013, 03:59 PM
I think Dalton is already on pace to surpass Ben this season. Flacco is a top 5 QB and the newest member of the Super Bowl MVP club so I'm not going to argue that one. Why do you guys keep bringing up Charlie Batch? Bad QB's and bad teams beat better teams all the time, it's part of the game. It was a good win for your organization but I think if you guys made it to the playoffs this past season you probably would have been one and done. Again, I think the Steelers are in the running for a playoff berth next season but it come down to you and CIN battling over the WC.

You really think the Ravens are going to win the division? :rofl:

Dalton is already on pace to surpass Ben this season? :rofl:

Bye kiddo go off somewhere else and waste your hopeless life cause im not gonna waste my useful time with somebody like you smh. bye bye:wave:

aa14
02-07-2013, 04:53 PM
You really think the Ravens are going to win the division? :rofl:

Dalton is already on pace to surpass Ben this season? :rofl:

Bye kiddo go off somewhere else and waste your hopeless life cause im not gonna waste my useful time with somebody like you smh. bye bye:wave:

What is so laughable about a Ravens fan thinking they are going to win the next division title when they just won the superbowl? Ozzie is one of the best GMs in the league and knows how to fit a team together, I have faith in the guy. What I have to say may be jarring for some Steelers fans but most of you seem to be able to take it in stride. They don't reply with myopic, repetitive drivel telling me to go waste my useless life somewhere else. If you don't like what I have to say you don't have to respond to any of it. You have a thin skin so I'd suggest taking that route. :hug:

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-07-2013, 05:02 PM
What is so laughable about a Ravens fan thinking they are going to win the next division title when they just won the superbowl? Ozzie is one of the best GMs in the league and knows how to fit a team together, I have faith in the guy. What I have to say may be jarring for some Steelers fans but most of you seem to be able to take it in stride. They don't reply with myopic, repetitive drivel telling me to go waste my useless life somewhere else. If you don't like what I have to say you don't have to respond to any of it. You have a thin skin so I'd suggest taking that route. :hug:

It's laughable cause you're on a Steelers forum wasting your life worrying about the Steelers and commenting on every thread talking stupid stuff but that shows how obsessed you are with the Steelers just like every other purple browns fan smh that shows that you have a hopeless life.

I told you to get out of here :wave:

aa14
02-07-2013, 05:18 PM
It's laughable cause you're on a Steelers forum wasting your life worrying about the Steelers and commenting on every thread talking stupid stuff but that shows how obsessed you are with the Steelers just like every other purple browns fan smh that shows that you have a hopeless life.

I told you to get out of here :wave:
I'm wasting my life worrying about the Steelers? What are you doing on here? You're wasting your life worrying about me. See how I did that? Why don't you talk some football instead of focusing on me? I haven't been going around insulting other posters for no good reason like you, I've been trying to talk football. How about you keep that vitriolic prating to yourself and focus on football in these discussions? Would that be so hard? :hug:

steelerschik
02-07-2013, 05:24 PM
I'm wasting my life worrying about the Steelers? What are you doing on here? You're wasting your life worrying about me. See how I did that? Why don't you talk some football instead of focusing on me? I haven't been going around insulting other posters for no good reason like you, I've been trying to talk football. How about you keep that vitriolic prating to yourself and focus on football in these discussions? Would that be so hard? :hug:

You want football talk, do you? I said it another thread and I'll repeat it again. The ravens blew a 28-6 lead, the defense is old, Ray Lewis will finally do the NFL and it's fans a favor by retiring his tired act and they were one blown noncall away from losing the sb. Now, I seen the ravens get hot, like the steelers, Giants, Patriots and ANY team that makes the sb. There's no guarantee it will happen again, it's harder to repeat, there's too many other teams on the rise and the ravens aren't getting any younger. You have no idea who will be back and who will be gone. The ravens won a sb by 3 points after blowing a lead. That should be worrisome. The ravens won a sb in over a decade. Good for them. The Steelers have 6 to their name, 2 was like 4 wins ago. Big deal. Biggest difference between steelers fans and ravens fans (aside from the steelers fans superior football knowledge) is knowing how to win. Maybe someday you'll figure it out, may take another decade tho.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-07-2013, 05:47 PM
I'm wasting my life worrying about the Steelers? What are you doing on here? You're wasting your life worrying about me. See how I did that? Why don't you talk some football instead of focusing on me? I haven't been going around insulting other posters for no good reason like you, I've been trying to talk football. How about you keep that vitriolic prating to yourself and focus on football in these discussions? Would that be so hard? :hug:

And you're here not trying to start problems lol sit down you no what you're doing, and there's a section for football talk like steelerschik said this is the Pittsburgh Steelers section were Steeler fans discuss & debate not where ravens fans like you jump in and try to start stuff understand you immature kid?

Not like you my life is not hopeless so I can talk as much as I want to understand?

aa14
02-07-2013, 06:27 PM
And you're here not trying to start problems lol sit down you no what you're doing, and there's a section for football talk like steelerschik said this is the Pittsburgh Steelers section were Steeler fans discuss & debate not where ravens fans like you jump in and try to start stuff understand you immature kid?

Not like you my life is not hopeless so I can talk as much as I want to understand?

Uhhh...

Right...
:noidea:

The_Joker
02-07-2013, 06:34 PM
Notice how we get along with BleedPurple and CharlesK but not this kid?

It's not us, it's him...

aa14
02-07-2013, 06:36 PM
You want football talk, do you? I said it another thread and I'll repeat it again. The ravens blew a 28-6 lead, the defense is old, Ray Lewis will finally do the NFL and it's fans a favor by retiring his tired act and they were one blown noncall away from losing the sb. Now, I seen the ravens get hot, like the steelers, Giants, Patriots and ANY team that makes the sb. There's no guarantee it will happen again, it's harder to repeat, there's too many other teams on the rise and the ravens aren't getting any younger. You have no idea who will be back and who will be gone. The ravens won a sb by 3 points after blowing a lead. That should be worrisome. The ravens won a sb in over a decade. Good for them. The Steelers have 6 to their name, 2 was like 4 wins ago. Big deal. Biggest difference between steelers fans and ravens fans (aside from the steelers fans superior football knowledge) is knowing how to win. Maybe someday you'll figure it out, may take another decade tho.

We held on and won the game. That's like me trying to degrade your SB victory vs. the cardinals because you were LOSING until the end. You were LOSING during the superbowl yet you won it at the last second, TIME TO WORRY... right? :chuckle:I don't think any Steelers fan was worried about how they won, it's a ridiculous assertion. You won then, we won now. The 49ers were a fantastic team and we could have lost, but we didn't. We were the best team in the league and there isn't really anything you can say to change that fact. :tt:

steelerschik
02-07-2013, 06:49 PM
We held on and won the game. That's like me trying to degrade your SB victory vs. the cardinals because you were LOSING until the end. You were LOSING during the superbowl yet you won it at the last second, TIME TO WORRY... right? :chuckle:I don't think any Steelers fan was worried about how they won, it's a ridiculous assertion. You won then, we won now. The 49ers were a fantastic team and we could have lost, but we didn't. We were the best team in the league and there isn't really anything you can say to change that fact. :tt:

The steelers didn't blow a HUGE lead son. And if you don't think that is something to think about, you're more delusional than we all already know you are. Did you watch the same game? San Fran looked anything BUT a fantastic team. The fact a huge lead was blown to a team playing as poorly as the 9ers was pathetic, all be it rather fun to watch. The rest of your dribble is just tiresome garbage. Isn't it past your bedtime yet kiddo?

Oh and a little math for you, 6 sbs >>>>2 sbs. Got a long way to go to be the best jr.

aa14
02-07-2013, 07:04 PM
The steelers didn't blow a HUGE lead son. And if you don't think that is something to think about, you're more delusional than we all already know you are. Did you watch the same game? San Fran looked anything BUT a fantastic team. The fact a huge lead was blown to a team playing as poorly as the 9ers was pathetic, all be it rather fun to watch. The rest of your dribble is just tiresome garbage. Isn't it past your bedtime yet kiddo?

Oh and a little math for you, 6 sbs >>>>2 sbs. Got a long way to go to be the best jr.

You're right. The 49ers were terrible and had no business being there. It wasn't the Ravens who amassed that monster lead, it was the 49ers playing it away. Smoking the packers... ending the Falcons... having one of the best records in the league... yeah you're right. :tt: The Steelers would have won the superbowl if they were in it, right? I mean you can always dream what COULD'VE happened!

I think the Steelers are one of the most storied and respectable organizations in the league. I love the rivalry between the teams. Since they won most of their titles before I was born the six titles doesn't mean much to me other than they've been one of the more consistent franchises in the past fifty years. That said, the Ravens have won two since they've been in existence. The Steelers have also won two during that same time frame. You can wave your figurative dick around if you want but it is white noise to me.

I mean seriously, how lame of an argument is that? WE WON MORE SUPERBOWLS THAN YOU... SO THERE!!! Uhh, okay? :toofunny:


By the way, what is dribble? Lol!!!
all be it = albeit
You learn something every day, even from kids. :coffee:

steelerschik
02-07-2013, 07:13 PM
You're right. The 49ers were terrible and had no business being there. It wasn't the Ravens who amassed that monster lead, it was the 49ers playing it away. Smoking the packers... ending the Falcons... having one of the best records in the league... yeah you're right. :tt: The Steelers would have won the superbowl if they were in it, right? I mean you can always dream what COULD'VE happened!

I think the Steelers are one of the most storied and respectable organizations in the league. I love the rivalry between the teams. Since they won most of their titles before I was born the six titles doesn't mean much to me other than they've been one of the more consistent franchises in the past fifty years. That said, the Ravens have won two since they've been in existence. The Steelers have also won two during the same time frame. You can wave your figurative dick around if you want but it is white noise to me.

I mean seriously, how lame of an argument is that? WE WON MORE SUPERBOWLS THAN YOU... SO THERE!!! Uhh, okay? :toofunny:


By the way, what is dribble? Lol!!!
all be it = albeit
You learn something every day. :coffee:

Sonny, I know how to spell and all be it was talking down to your level. Dribble is the crap coming off of your keyboard. The ravens are the browns, they've been in existence longer than their time in baltimore smart one. Trophies are all that matter. Just the way it is. The bottom line is the sb is almost a week over, yet here you are...why is that? Why do you think anyone cares anymore? The cleveland ravens weren't the best team in the league this year either darling, they got hot when they had to. It's over and past and the draft is more important than who won the sb. You are what gives the entire ravens fan base a bad rep. You're annoying, bragging about something the steelers have accomplished 6 times over and still going on about it. Why? I mean just answer that simple question. I mean you said we learn something new everyday, I want to learn why you're here and why we care about a team we've owned more than not?

And you can keep your "dick" talk to yourself. It's rude, crude (typical ravens) and not necessary, especially from someone not old enough to talk like that.

harrison'samonster
02-07-2013, 07:14 PM
all right. This next seasons going to answer a few questions. All this has nothing to do with the thread. Ravens fan, if you want to continue this conversation I would recommend starting your own thread, you've hijacked this one.

aa14
02-07-2013, 07:28 PM
Sonny, I know how to spell and all be it was talking down to your level. Dribble is the crap coming off of your keyboard. The ravens are the browns, they've been in existence longer than their time in baltimore smart one. Trophies are all that matter. Just the way it is. The bottom line is the sb is almost a week over, yet here you are...why is that? Why do you think anyone cares anymore? The cleveland ravens weren't the best team in the league this year either darling, they got hot when they had to. It's over and past and the draft is more important than who won the sb. You are what gives the entire ravens fan base a bad rep. You're annoying, bragging about something the steelers have accomplished 6 times over and still going on about it. Why? I mean just answer that simple question. I mean you said we learn something new everyday, I want to learn why you're here and why we care about a team we've owned more than not?

And you can keep your "dick" talk to yourself. It's rude, crude (typical ravens) and not necessary, especially from someone not old enough to talk like that.

Okay... so now Cleveland still own the ravens... that means Baltimore get to add the colts to their total? Do we get to add our NFL championships won in 1958, 1959 and 1968? How about Baltimore's Super Bowl V or XLI victory? Or wait... that last one doesn't count because they were the colts already? How are we doing this? Let me know the rules. :noidea:

Telling me that using the word dick is rude is funny. You've been rude the entire time by continuing to insult me by sarcastically calling me "smart one", "jr.", or "kiddo". I only provided you an elucidation with your incorrect use of "dribble" and "all be it". I was trying to help you out and I know you'll consider these mistakes in the future. Thank me later. :hug:

steelerschik
02-07-2013, 07:37 PM
Okay... so now Cleveland still own the ravens... that means Baltimore get to add the colts to their total? Do we get to add our NFL championships won in 1958, 1959 and 1968? How about Baltimore's Super Bowl V or XLI victory? Or wait... that last one doesn't count because they were the colts already? How are we doing this? Let me know the rules. :noidea:

Telling me that using the word dick is rude is funny. You've been rude the entire time by continuing to insult me by sarcastically calling me "smart one", "jr.", or "kiddo". I only provided you an elucidation with your incorrect use of "dribble" and "all be it". I was trying to help you out and I know you'll consider these mistakes in the future. Thank me later. :hug:

Yep, the word dick is right on par with smart one, jr and kiddo. Uh huh, equally rude. I'm tired with you now, you're boring and you didn't answer the question I asked so I can learn something new. Please re-read the post, answer the questions I posed to you, all be it maybe not to your liking, but I'm sure you'll add your usual dribble. Love your use of elucidation trying to prove something, lol, fraud and phony ravens fan, how typical.

aa14
02-07-2013, 07:50 PM
Yep, the word dick is right on par with smart one, jr and kiddo. Uh huh, equally rude. I'm tired with you now, you're boring and you didn't answer the question I asked so I can learn something new. Please re-read the post, answer the questions I posed to you, all be it maybe not to your liking, but I'm sure you'll add your usual dribble. Love your use of elucidation trying to prove something, lol, fraud and phony ravens fan, how typical.

DRIVEL... IT'S DRIVEL, DAMNIT!!! AHHH! I CAN'T GET THROUGH!!!!:banging::banging::banging:

Lady Steel
02-07-2013, 07:53 PM
:laughing:

:popcorn:

steelerschik
02-07-2013, 07:55 PM
QUOTE=aa14;1084169]DRIVEL... IT'S DRIVEL, DAMNIT!!! AHHH! I CAN'T GET THROUGH!!!!:banging::banging::banging:[/QUOTE]

Nope, it's dribble just for you, kiddo. But I see reading isn't your strong point, I'm sorry about that. I asked twice for you to answer questions from my previous post. Are you having trouble understanding? Maaebe I doesn't use enuff dribble for yer likeing. Please try your hardest to answer my questions so I can learn something new like why you're here spewing the same crap over and over. Please satisfy my desire to learn something new.

aa14
02-07-2013, 08:09 PM
Nope, it's dribble just for you, kiddo. But I see reading isn't your strong point, I'm sorry about that. I asked twice for you to answer questions from my previous post. Are you having trouble understanding? Maaebe I doesn't use enuff dribble for yer likeing. Please try your hardest to answer my questions so I can learn something new like why you're hear spewing the same crap over and over. Please satisfy my desire to learn something new.

I'm here to talk football, not to satisfy your desires. I haven't been bragging, I didn't start a thread proclaiming us world champions. I've been reminding, when appropriate, certain steeler fans because it appears they are trashing and downplaying the victory. I've tried to get involved with the discussion but some of you guys are bitter and defensive.

I've said more than a few times that Ben has been one of the best QB's in the league and the steelers are one of most storied and respected franchises to exist. Once I make that perfectly clear and give what is a contrarian view people begin to personally insult me. I haven't done anything that warrants such a vitriolic and hostile response. :coffee:

lloydwoodson
02-08-2013, 02:03 AM
Okay... so now Cleveland still own the ravens... that means Baltimore get to add the colts to their total? Do we get to add our NFL championships won in 1958, 1959 and 1968? How about Baltimore's Super Bowl V or XLI victory? Or wait... that last one doesn't count because they were the colts already? How are we doing this? Let me know the rules. :noidea:

Telling me that using the word dick is rude is funny. You've been rude the entire time by continuing to insult me by sarcastically calling me "smart one", "jr.", or "kiddo". I only provided you an elucidation with your incorrect use of "dribble" and "all be it". I was trying to help you out and I know you'll consider these mistakes in the future. Thank me later. :hug:

If I was living in Baltimore I would consider the Colts one Superbowl from that city as part of the city's history even though that team is now in Indianapolis and has absolutely nothing to do with the current Ravens.

The Baltimore Ravens are the Cleveland Browns. The only reason your team is not called the "Balitimore Browns" is because there would have been legal action taken against the NFL and Art Modell by the city of Cleveland. The new Cleveland Browns are an expansion team that has no tie to the old Browns whatsoever in terms of ownership, players or history. You could say however, that the original Cleveland Browns (now the Ravens) are part of the city of Cleveland's football history.

The recently deceased Art Modell had owned the Baltimore Ravens/Cleveland Browns since 1961. The Baltimore Ravens have 2 Superbowl championships despite existing since before the Superbowl era. The Pittsburgh Steelers have 6. I hope this helps you understand your own franchise's history.

Fire Arians
02-08-2013, 02:34 AM
all i gotta say is...

with ben = 3 super bowl appearances, 2 lombardi's.

without (barring terry bradshaw) = 0

lloydwoodson
02-08-2013, 03:00 AM
all i gotta say is...

with ben = 3 super bowl appearances, 2 lombardi's.

without (barring terry bradshaw) = 0

Don't forget about O'Donnell or Neil Still Rules 14 is going to give you a piece of his mind. :chuckle:

Slash took the Steelers to 2 AFC Championships... just didn't win either.

aa14
02-08-2013, 10:36 AM
If I was living in Baltimore I would consider the Colts one Superbowl from that city as part of the city's history even though that team is now in Indianapolis and has absolutely nothing to do with the current Ravens.

The Baltimore Ravens are the Cleveland Browns. The only reason your team is not called the "Balitimore Browns" is because there would have been legal action taken against the NFL and Art Modell by the city of Cleveland. The new Cleveland Browns are an expansion team that has no tie to the old Browns whatsoever in terms of ownership, players or history. You could say however, that the original Cleveland Browns (now the Ravens) are part of the city of Cleveland's football history.

The recently deceased Art Modell had owned the Baltimore Ravens/Cleveland Browns since 1961. The Baltimore Ravens have 2 Superbowl championships despite existing since before the Superbowl era. The Pittsburgh Steelers have 6. I hope this helps you understand your own franchise's history.

:doh: Ugh...

I understand how the Ravens came into existence. Maybe if you actually read what I was replying to you'd realize I was making fun of her inferring Cleveland still owned the Ravens. Calling us the "Cleveland Ravens" has nothing to do with the old history of the Browns and I was only following that thread. Thanks for the history lesson though. :coffee:

steelerschik
02-08-2013, 10:49 AM
:doh: Ugh...

I understand how the Ravens came into existence. Maybe if you actually read what I was replying to you'd realize I was making fun of her inferring Cleveland still owned the Ravens. Calling us the "Cleveland Ravens" has nothing to do with the old history of the Browns and I was only following that thread. Thanks for the history lesson though. :coffee:

You were doing a piss poor job at that. Don't care about your silly little comments dude. I will always call the ravens the cleveland ravens and I know that cleveland doesn't still own them jr. It's called sarcasm. There's just so much you don't understand.

steelerschik
02-08-2013, 10:51 AM
I'm here to talk football, not to satisfy your desires. I haven't been bragging, I didn't start a thread proclaiming us world champions. I've been reminding, when appropriate, certain steeler fans because it appears they are trashing and downplaying the victory. I've tried to get involved with the discussion but some of you guys are bitter and defensive.

I've said more than a few times that Ben has been one of the best QB's in the league and the steelers are one of most storied and respected franchises to exist. Once I make that perfectly clear and give what is a contrarian view people begin to personally insult me. I haven't done anything that warrants such a vitriolic and hostile response. :coffee:

Stopped reading right there. That's all you've been doing and like I said, it makes no sense to brag about a sb win on a steelers board, no matter the reason. None.

SteelersCanada
02-08-2013, 10:51 AM
You were doing a piss poor job at that. Don't care about your silly little comments dude. I will always call the ravens the cleveland ravens and I know that cleveland doesn't still own them jr. It's called sarcasm. There's just so much you don't understand.

I'd stop giving this guy your time. He's not on here to post anything constructive or to add to the conversation, he's just here to stir shit up.

aa14
02-08-2013, 10:53 AM
You were doing a piss poor job at that. Don't care about your silly little comments dude. I will always call the ravens the cleveland ravens and I know that cleveland doesn't still own them jr. It's called sarcasm. There's just so much you don't understand.

And my reply was sarcastic. You've just admitted you didn't realize that. That post where I named all of Baltimore and Indy's championships was SARCASTIC. Go back and read it. Do we really need to argue about this? Oh, and bolding half my sentence to just read as me making fun of you is wrong. I was making fun of what you SAID. Not you. It's not personal.

aa14
02-08-2013, 10:57 AM
I'd stop giving this guy your time. He's not on here to post anything constructive or to add to the conversation, he's just here to stir shit up.

And what are you adding, exactly? You here to talk football or just focus on me? Quit being so defensive, I'm a really nice guy. :hug:

steelerschik
02-08-2013, 10:59 AM
I'd stop giving this guy your time. He's not on here to post anything constructive or to add to the conversation, he's just here to stir shit up.

Yeah I know he is, but I'm sitting here reading on the last 10 minutes of my lunch just killing time, so he's not taking any of it up. Imagine that, a ravens fan trying to stir up shit on a steelers board. That's such a rarity, lol.

Blacksburg Zach
02-08-2013, 11:02 AM
So, how about we get back on topic? Wasn't this thread about how anybody who questions Ben is an idiot? I'd rather read about the topic of this thread and peoples' opinion as to whether or not it is idiotic to question Ben than to continue to get into pissing matches with a Ravens fan.

aa14
02-08-2013, 11:06 AM
So, how about we get back on topic? Wasn't this thread about how anybody who questions Ben is an idiot? I'd rather read about the topic of this thread and peoples' opinion as to whether or not it is idiotic to question Ben than to continue to get into pissing matches with a Ravens fan.

Thank you. I wouldn't question Ben at all. He is a savvy veteran and one of the toughest QBs in the league. It is too bad he was injured for both of the games vs the Ravens last season and I look forward to seeing him against us next season. That being said, the Steelers need to start looking at the draft in the next two season to find a QB to sit behind him for a year or two to develop. Ben won't be able to continue to perform at a high level with the injuries his body has been playing through. His o-line has let him down for awhile now and if it isn't fixed this coming season things could get ugly quick.

The name of the thread, calling people idiots who disagree with the OP, isn't a great way to promote healthy discussion imo. I actually agree that people would be "out to lunch" if they think Ben isn't the answer anymore but to call them idiots before they give their view isn't good.

VaDave
02-08-2013, 11:18 AM
aai4,

Good post. Not all of us are uncouthe.....

BTW, congrats on the win. Your boys did well.

MACH1
02-08-2013, 11:44 AM
Thank you. I wouldn't question Ben at all. He is a savvy veteran and one of the toughest QBs in the league. It is too bad he was injured for both of the games vs the Ravens last season and I look forward to seeing him against us next season. That being said, the Steelers need to start looking at the draft in the next two season to find a QB to sit behind him for a year or two to develop. Ben won't be able to continue to perform at a high level with the injuries his body has been playing through. His o-line has let him down for awhile now and if it isn't fixed this coming season things could get ugly quick.

The name of the thread, calling people idiots who disagree with the OP, isn't a great way to promote healthy discussion imo. I actually agree that people would be "out to lunch" if they think Ben isn't the answer anymore but to call them idiots before they give their view isn't good.

It's not that people question Ben, it's that eventually ever thread turns into a Ben sucks thread or people feel the need to start a dozen new ones.

VaDave
02-08-2013, 11:45 AM
Heck, if you hang around this board long enough, everybody sucks...........

teegre
02-08-2013, 11:47 AM
It's not that people question Ben, it's that eventually ever thread turns into a Ben sucks thread or people feel the need to start a dozen new ones.

Hines Ward sucks, too.

VaDave
02-08-2013, 11:50 AM
See, there's another on the list.... lol

Fire Arians
02-08-2013, 12:39 PM
Don't forget about O'Donnell or Neil Still Rules 14 is going to give you a piece of his mind. :chuckle:

Slash took the Steelers to 2 AFC Championships... just didn't win either.

I still think O'Donnell could have gotten at least 1 championship win, he was the best QB the franchise had outside of Bradshaw or Ben. However, those 2 are leaps above Neil no question.

Slash got to 2 afc championships but not all because of him, the team was stacked to hell on both sides of the ball, if we had a decent qb it coulda been a dynasty team

harrison'samonster
02-08-2013, 12:44 PM
I always liked O'Donnell. Other than the SB I don't know what ppl have against him. He ran the offense pretty efficiently. Especially in 95, we were one of the higher scoring teams. And he was very good at not throwing picks.

AAARRRGGGGHHHHHHHHH! O'Donnell !!!!!!!

zcoop
02-08-2013, 05:32 PM
Don't forget about O'Donnell or Neil Still Rules 14 is going to give you a piece of his mind. :chuckle:

Slash took the Steelers to 2 AFC Championships... just didn't win either.

:chuckle: Watch it Sucka! :chuckle:

zcoop
02-08-2013, 05:36 PM
Hines Ward sucks, too.

Naw, we all know that Wallace is the only one that sucks around here.