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View Full Version : I'm thinking offense: New wrinkle that I'd like to see explored:


StainlessStill
02-07-2013, 04:17 PM
Quick thought:

Haley is already shown to like the zone-blocking scheme for his running backs to run behind and with a new offensive line coach coming through, it's time to teach a VERY fresh and young offensive line the Steelers now own to learn things the right way in our approach. Not only can we establish a running mindset from a zone-blocking scheme, but I'd like to see Ben run an offense similar to how Denver ran theirs in the Plummer-era.

Of course it's nice for Ben to get it out of his hands quick, but his feet are nimble and he's athletic enough to get out of the pocket and make people miss. I'd like to see the same approach to spreading the ball around, but play-action is needed for Ben to succeed and take less hits, and we need less defenders around Ben as much as possible. Having a designed offense to roll Ben out of the pocket and create space could work wonders in our evolution.

I'd like to see a lot of roll-outs forming off of the zone blocking mentality, make the defense roll one way, rolling Ben out another, and having mis-direction routes for our receivers to get open on the opposite end of the field to create confusion and mis-match's for speedsters and scat like agility wideouts like Antonio Brown to manipulate.

This could also set up Ben putting up HUGE numbers in a no-huddle approach with a new wrinkle to implement. Points need to be scored.

Time for a different offensive approach and a new canvas for Bens game to operate, keys in hand.

harrison'samonster
02-07-2013, 04:21 PM
very good thinking. Even one thing we're going to need: A RB who is going to demand respect. You're getting me pumped up man!

Steelers5895
02-07-2013, 04:27 PM
I like it BUT doesnt that put Ben at risk for more hits?

We dont seea lot of the roll outs now as a lot of defneses are in the 3-4 and have fast OLB who can get to the QB. They may not sack him but will get their share of hits on him as he releases the ball. PLus he is getting hit at full speed which will make his hitting the ground a lot harder than getting sacked in the pocket.

ben is best in the no huddle. I think ben would be great if we ran that more and it will also make our speedy small receivers a little more dangerous.

i still think the least of our worries are the offense.

harrison'samonster
02-07-2013, 04:30 PM
I think moving Ben around is one way to help protect him, that way the Defense doesn't know where he's going to be.

Steelers5895
02-07-2013, 04:31 PM
when he rolls out, no real blocking in front of him. sounds dangerous.

StainlessStill
02-07-2013, 04:36 PM
I like it BUT doesnt that put Ben at risk for more hits?

Not if we can bring in a SOLID feature back that not only is smart enough to create his own holes in a zone blocking scheme (our o-line is bigger and more athletic than some people think) but is quick enough to take advantages of the edges with an option for cutback lanes. That keeps aggressive defensive ends and backers to stay home and stay in their lanes, opening up a big QB with nice feet (like Ben) to widen out, create space and keep the defensive off balance into going after Ben, and if they do, if they crash, Haley loves the dump-off option to begin with for a security blanket in our back to slip behind them in the flat and gain significant amounts of yardage in open space.

Getting Ben more options in dump-offs is key as well. Haley loves establishing this. It makes most sense to me because Big Ben's magic happens out of the pocket to begin with. With a defense knowing this already and still having to protect a portion of the field when schemes are considered problematic to defend, makes Big Ben even more dangerous in what he's capable of doing when the field opens up with him booting out knowing the back will always be there for assistance to stay in to block, or slip out in coverage if nothings there.

harrison'samonster
02-07-2013, 04:38 PM
also, don't snap the ball every time when the play clock is on one. That and moving the pocket around will help protect him.

harrison'samonster
02-07-2013, 04:39 PM
Not if we can bring in a SOLID feature back that not only is smart enough to create his own holes in a zone blocking scheme (our o-line is bigger and more athletic than some people think) but is quick enough to take advantages of the edges with an option for cutback lanes. That keeps aggressive defensive ends and backers to stay home and stay in their lanes, opening up a big QB with nice feet (like Ben) to widen out, create space and keep the defensive off balance into going after Ben, and if they do, if they crash, Haley loves the dump-off option to begin with for a security blanket in our back to slip behind them in the flat and gain significant amounts of yardage in open space.

Getting Ben more options in dump-offs is key as well. Haley loves establishing this. It makes most sense to me because Big Ben's magic happens out of the pocket to begin with. With a defense knowing this already and still having to protect a portion of the field when schemes are considered problematic to defend, makes Big Ben even more dangerous in what he's capable of doing.

Is this a style that Mendenhall would be good for? I know a lot of people want him gone, but if he's the best option how can we let him go?

StainlessStill
02-07-2013, 04:47 PM
when he rolls out, no real blocking in front of him. sounds dangerous.

Not necessarily. Rolling Ben out doesn't automatically mean having the need for Roethlisberger to sprint out outside the tackles box. It's the depth that can work with the pass-protection working off the zone blocking scheme with Ben gaining depth in his dropbacks at certain angles and yardage, creating the most space possible between him and the line of scrimmage while still containing within the pocket. Different sets and combinations could work wonders if we can get Ben using his feet more to open things up downfield with mis-direction. If Heath was healthy, it would excite me more just thinking about it.

StainlessStill
02-07-2013, 04:53 PM
Is this a style that Mendenhall would be good for? I know a lot of people want him gone, but if he's the best option how can we let him go?

That's the kicker. Ultimately, yes. Out of ALL the players involved when the announcement of Haley was made, Mendenhall was the one I was most excited to see break out. Finally, his vision to the outside could be complimented with him running behind a wall giving him the opportunity to turn on the jets and make the correct adjustments in stride.

Unfortunately, his injury stalled his progress and is too boneheaded to buy into anything long-term with his contract disputes. I always viewed Mendenhall to be a Reggie Bush type player, one who needs space at all times to create mis-match's in the second level. Problem for Mendy, is getting to the second level running behind an o-line built to run between the tackles in philosophy. We can QUICKLY make the adjustment.

StainlessStill
02-07-2013, 05:21 PM
With Haley needing to open things up, my thoughts are only to be explored as a wrinkle to making things go for Big Ben to control within his skill-set.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl6QmrTeGE0

Lot of elements in that type of attack I can see Ben run quite nicely.

Steelers5895
02-07-2013, 07:21 PM
Is this a style that Mendenhall would be good for? I know a lot of people want him gone, but if he's the best option how can we let him go?

i was thinking the same thing.

StainlessStill
02-10-2013, 02:57 AM
Gerry Dulac just posted an article on Pittsburgh Post Gazette, an article that could see changes to the offensive line. His views mimic the exact views I posted in this thread when sitting down and thinking of a direction best suited for our talent. I share most of his views for what he said here:


Today, most of the top running teams in the NFL use a zone-blocking scheme that requires the offensive lineman to block an area, not a specific man. Among them are Kansas City, Washington, Denver and Houston.

Bicknell used a zone-blocking scheme last season with the Chiefs, who finished fifth in the league in rushing after leading the NFL in 2011. Bicknell said the Chiefs used a zone-blocking scheme because they had a running back, Jamaal Charles, who liked to run outside-zone plays.

If the Steelers change to a zone-blocking scheme, then it will be imperative to find the type of running back who is patient, stretches the play and has good cutback instincts.

Right now, the Steelers' top running backs, Jonathan Dwyer and Isaac Redman, are physical backs who run inside and are more tailored to gap runs in a man-blocking scheme. Rashard Mendenhall and Chris Rainey are examples of running backs who can threaten the edge and are more suited to zone-blocking schemes. But Rainey is already gone and Mendenhall is expected to follow.

That will either force the Steelers to find a back to fit a zone-scheme style or continue with a man-blocking attack that suits Redman and Dwyer.


Man, I hope we can make the transition!

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...#ixzz2KTqfrNkm

VaDave
02-10-2013, 07:22 AM
In general I don't like rollouts mainly because you reduce the the size of of your target area. I do like designed rollouts, and misdirections to take advantage of defenders proclivities, but only on occassion.

Someone else posted about todays speedy linebackers and defensive schemes, like the 3-4, or the wide 9. I'm not so sure I'd want to run too many rollouts against those defenses.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the changes, especially having lighter more mobile linemen.

SteelersCanada
02-10-2013, 11:32 AM
I think it's a really good idea. Houston runs a very similar offensive scheme that you're talking about with Schaub to Johnson and it works really, really well. You're absolutely right, though - in order to run this kind of offense, we need a legitimate and probably franchise RB to work from play-action and throw it downfield or on the move.

I think that Ben to Brown in this style of offense would be really effective. I think the pieces are there on the offensive line and WR corp, we just need a RB. If we were to draft someone like Marcus Lattimore or Mike Gillislee, then this offensive scheme would be hard to stop with our speedy possession receivers we have.

I like it.

nick5574
02-10-2013, 03:49 PM
Early in his career didn't ben have a lot of success in roll outs and bootlegs off of play action? A strong running game would even increase the success of such a system. I read somewhere that there was an idea of bringing reggie bush to the steelers? is that still a possibility because i could see him flourishing in this offense.

harrison'samonster
02-10-2013, 03:51 PM
Early in his career didn't ben have a lot of success in roll outs and bootlegs off of play action? A strong running game would even increase the success of such a system. I read somewhere that there was an idea of bringing reggie bush to the steelers? is that still a possibility because i could see him flourishing in this offense.

reggie bush would be nice, I don't remember hearing that. I think his asking price would be too high for us.

nick5574
02-10-2013, 04:02 PM
reggie bush would be nice, I don't remember hearing that. I think his asking price would be too high for us.

Our cap situation does lead to a lot of problems. There is an article on nfl.com right now saying that 3 of our 5 offensive line starters may not be with the team next year.

SteelersCanada
02-10-2013, 04:07 PM
Our cap situation does lead to a lot of problems. There is an article on nfl.com right now saying that 3 of our 5 offensive line starters may not be with the team next year.

You're acting like the 2 remaining guys aren't David DeCastro and Maurkice Pouncey. As long as they stay and anchor our line, I'm fine with grabbing new offensive linemen.

That being said, we won't. It's a dumb article that these guys have to write for offseason purposes. Not enough attention is being paid to the Steelers right now, so why not write an article that puts the most successful franchise back on the front page?

Anyone else ready for April 25?

harrison'samonster
02-10-2013, 04:22 PM
Our cap situation does lead to a lot of problems. There is an article on nfl.com right now saying that 3 of our 5 offensive line starters may not be with the team next year.

that's what makes this offseason so exciting. We should start taking polls on how many starters will return, how many FA's we'll lose, if there will be any major changes like using a ZBL scheme or not.

I'll be surprised when we start seeing any changes, but it's fun to think of what the Steelers might do.

nick5574
02-10-2013, 06:35 PM
You're acting like the 2 remaining guys aren't David DeCastro and Maurkice Pouncey. As long as they stay and anchor our line, I'm fine with grabbing new offensive linemen.

That being said, we won't. It's a dumb article that these guys have to write for offseason purposes. Not enough attention is being paid to the Steelers right now, so why not write an article that puts the most successful franchise back on the front page?

Anyone else ready for April 25?

i would love to see an offensive line built around Pouncey and DeCastro and get back to using the run to set up play actions with ben. Something like that could actually help us "retool" or rebuild the defense, whatever you want to call it, by keeping the pressure off of them to win games

VaDave
02-10-2013, 08:53 PM
I think it's a really good idea. Houston runs a very similar offensive scheme that you're talking about with Schaub to Johnson and it works really, really well. You're absolutely right, though - in order to run this kind of offense, we need a legitimate and probably franchise RB to work from play-action and throw it downfield or on the move.

I think that Ben to Brown in this style of offense would be really effective. I think the pieces are there on the offensive line and WR corp, we just need a RB. If we were to draft someone like Marcus Lattimore or Mike Gillislee, then this offensive scheme would be hard to stop with our speedy possession receivers we have.

I like it.

I haven't seen to much of Houston over the last couple of years. But having seen Kubiak's offense from his Denver days I get your point.

One thing I do know about them is their OL is outstanding and cosidered by many to be the best in the league. Having a back like Foster, which we don't have at the moment, would certainly help a lot. At this point in life, this would be a wrinlke I'd actually enjoy getting......