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View Full Version : Mike Wallace vs Swann, Ward etc.


lloydwoodson
02-09-2013, 12:43 PM
Wallace had 32 TDs in his first 4 years while Swann had 23, Ward had 15, Stallworth had 14 and Brown had 7 in his first 3.

In my mind, Wallace is one of the best Steelers WRs all-time and I will be extremely disappointed to see him go. Wallace had some key big drops this past season which was out of character for him ( I don't remember anyone complaining about his hands pre-lockout).

I strongly feel that retaining Wallace should have been the FO top priority. For once I would like to see a Steelers WR who has excellent chemistry with Ben to stay on the team after they are finally on the same page. Marvin Harrison played 10 seasons with Manning, Rice played 7 with Montana etc. I'm not saying that ben and Wallace are as good just pointing out how helpful it has been to have continuity for QB / WR combos over the years on other teams.

Steelers5895
02-09-2013, 01:00 PM
different era. compare wallace to the players of the last 5 -10 years in their first 4 years if you want an accurate comparison.

Since you werent around then, the steelers didnt start throwing really until after the rules changes (the Mel Blount rule). You cant go by numbers, its not fantasy football.

in swanns first 4 years he had 2 super bowl wins and a super bowl mvp in a running era.

Stallworth too had 2 championships

if thats the case, donnie shell and mike wagner are better than troy based only on interceptions.

ridiculous post.

TheVet
02-09-2013, 02:00 PM
I'm guessing lloydwoodson is too young to have watched the 70's Steelers teams play. Nobody who actually watched Stallworth and Swan would compare them to Mike Wallace - it's laughable. Those two were exceptional receivers in every way. Wallace can run fast, but his routes are imprecise and his hands are poor.

Seriously, there are so many levels of separation here ...

Bayz101
02-09-2013, 02:10 PM
BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Bayz101
02-09-2013, 02:12 PM
"Strongly feel retaining Mike Wallace should of been FO priority".

10 million a year wasn't "priority" money? Fuck that. He's not worth 10 million a year.

zcoop
02-09-2013, 02:16 PM
I'm guessing lloydwoodson is too young to have watched the 70's Steelers teams play. Nobody who actually watched Stallworth and Swan would compare them to Mike Wallace - it's laughable. Those two were exceptional receivers in every way. Wallace can run fast, but his routes are imprecise and his hands are poor.

Seriously, there are so many levels of separation here ...

I was around back then, so is it equally insane for others to compare Ben to Bradshaw? Just a question that has to be asked based on your post. Bradshaw has 4 rings and could throw the deep ball consistently accurate. Ben has 2 rings and doesn't throw it deep often, even less now in Haley's system.

Both Swanie and Stallworth were deep threats and gave Ds fits, whereas our current team only has one deep threat, pending the possible split with Mike.

harrison'samonster
02-09-2013, 02:51 PM
Wallace has been successful stat-wise early in his career, I'll give you that. However, I don't think he's a better receiver than Ward, Holmes, Burress, Charles Johnson, or Yancey Thigpen. It's still questionable whether he's better than Antonio Brown (although I'm sure a lot of ppl will disagree). I can't comment on Stallworth or Swann or Lipps myself, not being old enough to have seen them play.

pete74
02-09-2013, 02:55 PM
It makes me laugh how you guys so easily forget what wallace has done for this team yet tend to overlook Brown's shortcomings because he is under contract.
If you want to compare Wallace to more recent players then compare his first 3 yearsto the top WR's , Fitzgeral , Megatron, White and Marshall and you'll see Wallace is right up there with them.
I agree wallace had a down year but he's still more valuable to our team then most of you think and you'll find thatout this sseason

TheVet
02-09-2013, 03:01 PM
I was around back then, so is it equally insane for others to compare Ben to Bradshaw? Just a question that has to be asked based on your post. Bradshaw has 4 rings and could throw the deep ball consistently accurate. Ben has 2 rings and doesn't throw it deep often, even less now in Haley's system.

Both Swanie and Stallworth were deep threats and gave Ds fits, whereas our current team only has one deep threat, pending the possible split with Mike.

I think that comparing Ben and Bradshaw is very interesting. That's a comparison that merits discussion, because they're both somewhere in the same class in terms of their play. Wallace just isn't near the same class as Swan/Stallworth, although I once believed that he could be with continued development - but based on the last one and a half seasons, I'm less hopeful.

VaDave
02-09-2013, 03:05 PM
He had a down your because he was afraid of getting hurt with his mega contract on the line..... It was glaringly obvious....

As for his worth, who cares about how he stacks up against whoever, the point is we are going to be a lesser team without him. But you also have to consider that if we "Pay the Man, that means somebody else or somebodies have to go, also making us a lesser team.

zcoop
02-09-2013, 03:13 PM
I think that comparing Ben and Bradshaw is very interesting. That's a comparison that merits discussion, because they're both somewhere in the same class in terms of their play. Wallace just isn't near the same class as Swan/Stallworth, although I once believed that he could be with continued development - but based on the last one and a half seasons, I'm less hopeful.

I didn't compare Mike to our greatest wrs ever, the original poster raised a good point regarding the first four seasons of any wr we've ever had and Mike trumps them all at this stage in his career (first 4 yrs). I don't think the numbers can be argued, but neither can the body of work for Swanie and Stallworth because we have their entire careers to look back on. Mike is a newbie on the scene.

The guy is within top percentile of his peers, whether some on this board admits it or not. We can have our own opinions but the facts don't belong to any of us, they are what they are (truth).

SH-Rock
02-09-2013, 03:27 PM
First four years of current upper echelon receivers

Larry Fitzgerald

Receptions: 330
Yards: 4544
TD: 34

Calvin Johnson

Receptions: 270
Yards: 4191
TD: 33

Andre Johnson

Receptions: 311
Yards: 3953
TD: 17

Mike Wallace

Receptions: 235
Yards: 4042
TD: 32

DanRooney
02-09-2013, 03:29 PM
We're keeping Wallace or we're picking up Bowe. If neither happen it's a travesty.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-09-2013, 03:43 PM
It will either be Keenan or Wallace that comes back the FO will pick the one that's more valuable to this team.

If Keenan Leaves we have Cortez to replace him and have DVD, C.Brown or Victorian to play the nickle and probably waste another high draft pick on another corner

If Wallace leaves we have Brown, Sanders, Cotchery or draft a receiver in the 1-3 rounds in the draft.

Steelers5895
02-09-2013, 03:48 PM
Hey I like Wallace but you can compare eras and stats can be misleading. What irks steelers fans is Pittsburgh players are known for being tough, even at the wide receiver position.

Wallace played soft and cowardly for selfish reasons. Plus he dropped a ton of passes.

Most players playing for a contract play hard to impress their team and the 31 teams but instead Wallace had the arrogance that he can get a contract without proving himself.

harrison'samonster
02-09-2013, 04:18 PM
I don't dislike Wallace at all. Sure I'm disappointed in him after this year, but there aren't many Steelers who impressed this past year. He's been extremely valuable to this team over the past few years.

However saying that his numbers show that he's one of the greatest Steelers WR's of all time is like saying Jason Gildon is one of the best Steelers LB's of all time.

zcoop
02-09-2013, 04:19 PM
Hey I like Wallace but you can compare eras and stats can be misleading. What irks steelers fans is Pittsburgh players are known for being tough, even at the wide receiver position.

Wallace played soft and cowardly for selfish reasons. Plus he dropped a ton of passes.

Most players playing for a contract play hard to impress their team and the 31 teams but instead Wallace had the arrogance that he can get a contract without proving himself.

He was playing well as was the team until Ben got hurt. What did you want him to do, go into a phone booth and come out in tights with an 'S' on his chest? The guy has been a bargain based on what we've paid him thus far. We should have worked out a deal with him during year three, if we wanted to get him cheaper.

This cat has done his job as a Steeler wr and if he leaves we'll see just how effective he was. Of course he can be replaced as can any player on any team in the NFL but his absence will be noticable until we get someone to do what he is capable of doing.

Steelers5895
02-09-2013, 04:23 PM
Lots of drops. Lots of minimal effort plays. Minimal focus as per his head coach.

zcoop
02-09-2013, 04:29 PM
Lots of drops. Lots of minimal effort plays. Minimal focus as per his head coach.

Was the team focused this year? That includes the coaching staff and the players with the 8 - 8 record we had this year. All that shit wasn't Mike's doing, AB, Sanders, Ben and many others contributed to this debacle. Mike is just being used as the scapgoat because he dared to hold out for more pay.

lloydwoodson
02-09-2013, 04:45 PM
I just think it's a shame that Steelers fan hold such animosity towards Wallace. He is a helluva lot less flashy than people pretend he is and he has dropped a helluva lot fewer passes than people claimed he has.

The point is Wallace did have a down year. Wallace hurt his value this past season. It is possible that his price may have come down enough for the Steelers to snag him. If that is the case I hope the Steelers fans welcome him back with open arms and not worry about his contract. None of us are paying the man directly.

If Mike Wallace plays another 6 seasons for the Pittsburgh Steelers he will lead them in every statistical category, and maybe get another Superbowl win.

What did Ben say at the beginning of the season? He said it would be hard for the young receivers to learn a new playbook and get on the same page with him. Ben was right. And another thing... it has taken a couple years for Brown and Sanders to get in sync with Ben also. It is a young receiving corps and will be a great one for years to come if it can stay together... if it be the will of Allah.

Steelers5895
02-09-2013, 05:13 PM
It was effort. And the young money nickname? If you are going to call yourself that back it up.

lloydwoodson
02-09-2013, 05:37 PM
It was effort. And the young money nickname? If you are going to call yourself that back it up.

Wallace started that nickname because he likes Lil Wayne. No big deal.

He can call himself "the Pope" for all I care. I like how Wallace usually celebrates his touchdowns with a teammate or in the stands, and how he often gives footballs to fans in the crowd. I think that literally is just me though.

Steelers5895
02-09-2013, 05:47 PM
We are better with him than without him IF we dont replace him. Even if we resign him, we still need a red zone wr

Bayz101
02-09-2013, 05:49 PM
Mike Wallace isn't on the same level as players like Swann, Stallworth or Ward. That's an absurd thing to say this early in his career, but it's no secret that he's a talented, lightning-fast wide receiver and he'll make a LOT of money playing for another team in the NFL very soon.

lloydwoodson
02-09-2013, 07:30 PM
Mike Wallace isn't on the same level as players like Swann, Stallworth or Ward. That's an absurd thing to say this early in his career, but it's no secret that he's a talented, lightning-fast wide receiver and he'll make a LOT of money playing for another team in the NFL very soon.

"He's about as exciting as it comes. He gets down field faster than me and Lynn did. As for being the long ball receiver, that's his forte. Swann and I thought we were longball players too, but we couldn't run like that.
"Wallace has potential to get better. That doesn't lessen what he's done, though. He has a lot of talent as a receiver already." --- John Stallworth.

John Stallworth compared himself and Swann to Wallace which is kind of absurd. :wave:

In 1978, Swann's best ever statistical season, he finished 8th in receptions, 7th in yards and 2nd in touchdowns. Swann made the HOF by being a big-play receiver... guess who else is a big play wide receiver? There are more than 300 players with more career receptions than Lynn Swann... THREE HUNDRED!!! So please spare me the typical canonization of past players. Swann is a great player in his own right but he is not Jerry Rice or Don Hutson.(Stallworth is 101st in career receptions which is very good for his era).

Wallace absolutely belongs in the conversation of the best Steelers wide receivers. Wallace is 26 years old. The best is yet to come.

pittpete
02-09-2013, 07:37 PM
Wallace nor Bowe will be on the Steelers 2013 roster.
If Curtis Brown is our nickel back this year, we are in for trouble

harrison'samonster
02-09-2013, 07:40 PM
Wallace absolutely belongs in the conversation of the best Steelers wide receivers. Wallace is 26 years old. The best is yet to come.

if he's with the team another year or more and gets better, I would start putting him in the conversation.

lloydwoodson
02-09-2013, 07:47 PM
Wallace nor Bowe will be on the Steelers 2013 roster.
If Curtis Brown is our nickel back this year, we are in for trouble

I agree that Curtis Brown has not played well outside of special teams and would be a liability in the nickel. Still, Brown could improve.

I think you are right though it would be better to use someone else in the nickel. Maybe Will Allen? Could Sean Spence be groomed for nickel packages? Meaning could he be used to cover a slot receiver in place of a DB?

I don't think Wallace gets re-signed either but you never know. If he does leave I will remember him as one of the Steelers best ever receivers.

Wallace is 7th in touchdowns, 8th in yards, and 11th in receptions for the Steelers all-time... not bad for 4 years in.

jacobo
02-09-2013, 07:49 PM
He's a good number 2 at best. Numbers are misleading and anyone basing their entire argument on them is foolish. He's a poor route runner, soft, doesn't fight for the ball, has average hands, regularly disappears and is only "elite" at running in a line. He isn't a number one receiver. He isn't Fitz or either Johnson. Those guys didn't have a guy like Ben throwing them the ball their first few years. Numbers mean shit.

Steeldude
02-09-2013, 08:07 PM
Wallace had 32 TDs in his first 4 years while Swann had 23, Ward had 15, Stallworth had 14 and Brown had 7 in his first 3.

In my mind, Wallace is one of the best Steelers WRs all-time and I will be extremely disappointed to see him go. Wallace had some key big drops this past season which was out of character for him ( I don't remember anyone complaining about his hands pre-lockout).

I strongly feel that retaining Wallace should have been the FO top priority. For once I would like to see a Steelers WR who has excellent chemistry with Ben to stay on the team after they are finally on the same page. Marvin Harrison played 10 seasons with Manning, Rice played 7 with Montana etc. I'm not saying that ben and Wallace are as good just pointing out how helpful it has been to have continuity for QB / WR combos over the years on other teams.

Again, how does a WR who deliberately does not try become one of the best Steeler WRs of all-time?

which was out of character for him

What? Even coming out of the draft his poor hands were noted.

I don't remember anyone complaining about his hands pre-lockout

I did.

You are comparing Wallace to WRs in the 70's and Ward? Do you understand the flaws in those comparisons?

Steelers5895
02-09-2013, 08:14 PM
"He's about as exciting as it comes. He gets down field faster than me and Lynn did. As for being the long ball receiver, that's his forte. Swann and I thought we were longball players too, but we couldn't run like that.
"Wallace has potential to get better. That doesn't lessen what he's done, though. He has a lot of talent as a receiver already." --- John Stallworth.

John Stallworth compared himself and Swann to Wallace which is kind of absurd. :wave:

In 1978, Swann's best ever statistical season, he finished 8th in receptions, 7th in yards and 2nd in touchdowns. Swann made the HOF by being a big-play receiver... guess who else is a big play wide receiver? There are more than 300 players with more career receptions than Lynn Swann... THREE HUNDRED!!! So please spare me the typical canonization of past players. Swann is a great player in his own right but he is not Jerry Rice or Don Hutson.(Stallworth is 101st in career receptions which is very good for his era).

Wallace absolutely belongs in the conversation of the best Steelers wide receivers. Wallace is 26 years old. The best is yet to come.

Obsurd! You must not have seen them play. While you are looking up stats, look at the length of swanns Td receptions in Super Bowls. Now compare those to Wallace.

Talk about a guy who can get deep. He averaged 40 yards per reception in Super Bowl 10.

Again, ridiculous post but expected from an under 20 year old steeler fan of 5 years

lloydwoodson
02-09-2013, 08:15 PM
He's a good number 2 at best. Numbers are misleading and anyone basing their entire argument on them is foolish. He's a poor route runner, soft, doesn't fight for the ball, has average hands, regularly disappears and is only "elite" at running in a line. He isn't a number one receiver. He isn't Fitz or either Johnson. Those guys didn't have a guy like Ben throwing them the ball their first few years. Numbers mean shit.

Matt Stafford would be a much better fit for Wallace. Stafford arguably throws the best deep ball in the league.

The fact that Wallace scored twice as many touchdowns as two of the number one receivers you mentioned means nothing to you. Touchdowns are stats and stats are unimportant.

I think what stand out the most about your comment is the Johnsons, and Fitz were targeted far more than Wallace yet Wallace still had the most touchdowns of that group.

Fitz - terrible QBs - 71 REC 153 TGT 4TD 46% REC/TGT

Megatron - ProBowl QB - 122 REC 205 TGT 5TD 59% REC/TGT

Andre - ProBowl QB - 112 REC 164 TGT 4TD 68% REC/TGT

Wallace - ProBowl QB - 64 REC 119 TGT 8TD 54% REC/TGT

All of those receivers got targeted at least 30 times more than Wallace. Wallace still scored the most. Scoring is just a stat though - they should decide NFL games based solely on expert qualitative analysis from the fans at home who would determine who tried the hardest based on gut instinct and the eye test.

Steelers5895
02-09-2013, 08:25 PM
I don't think anyone is debating the stats you are obsessing over. But to say he is in the same class as the three best Wrs in our teams history is nuts. Beyond nuts.

You using only stats to argue this point is why we are saying the stats don't matter.

Understand or should i type louder

lloydwoodson
02-09-2013, 08:33 PM
Obsurd! You must not have seen them play. While you are looking up stats, look at the length of swanns Td receptions in Super Bowls. Now compare those to Wallace.

Talk about a guy who can get deep. He averaged 40 yards per reception in Super Bowl 10.

Again, ridiculous post but expected from an under 20 year old steeler fan of 5 years

Absurd*

Wallace has only been to one Superbowl. Wallace had 9 catches (more catches than Swann had in any of his Superbowls) and 1 touchdown (tying the most touchdowns Swann had in any of his Superbowls).

Let's not forget who was throwing them the ball. Bradshaw's worst rating in any Superbowl was 101. Roethlisberger's best rating in any Superbowl was 93 (which was much better than 22 and 77 admittedly).

FrancoLambert
02-09-2013, 08:38 PM
Wallace is better than Swann and Stallworth.

:sofunny: :rofl: :jawdrop:

That's a good one.

harrison'samonster
02-09-2013, 08:41 PM
Absurd*

Wallace has only been to one Superbowl. Wallace had 9 catches (more catches than Swann had in any of his Superbowls) and 1 touchdown (tying the most touchdowns Swann had in any of his Superbowls).

Let's not forget who was throwing them the ball. Bradshaw's worst rating in any Superbowl was 101. Roethlisberger's best rating in any Superbowl was 93 (which was much better than 22 and 77 admittedly).

with a minute left in the SB Wallace was given two chances in a row to help move the ball down field. On one he gave very little effort, and on the next he seemed like he gave little effort and immediatley looked around for a flag. turnover on downs, Packers run the clock out, game over. Big difference between Wallace and Holmes even.

harrison'samonster
02-09-2013, 08:44 PM
in SB 43 Holmes had 9 catches for 131 yards. In the final drive, he had a catch for 14, 13, and 40 yards, and a game winning touchdown catch for 6. And Holmes isn't considered by many to be one of the great Steeler WR's.

lloydwoodson
02-09-2013, 08:52 PM
Again, how does a WR who deliberately does not try become one of the best Steeler WRs of all-time?

What? Even coming out of the draft his poor hands were noted.

I did.

You are comparing Wallace to WRs in the 70's and Ward? Do you understand the flaws in those comparisons?

I believe Wallace tries. If he doesn't try and still scored as many touchdowns as Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald put together in 2012 that is very impressive.

Scouting reports are garbage. The scouting report on Tom Brady did not say one good thing about him - literally.

Wallace had not had more than 4 drops in a season until this year.

Lance Alworth scored 42 touchdowns in his first 4 years starting in 62, Don Maynard 22 starting in 58, Don Hutson 30 starting in 35, Ditka 30 starting in 62, Cliff Branch 22 starting in 72, Billy Howton 22 starting in 52... can I compare them to players in the 70s?

This whole "new NFL" thing is a nice marketing gimmick and is true as a general rule but there have been excellent receivers and phenomenal passing attacks since the inception of the league.

lloydwoodson
02-09-2013, 08:58 PM
Wallace is better than Swann and Stallworth.

:sofunny: :rofl: :jawdrop:

That's a good one.

Not one person here has said that. I am of the opinion that Wallace is in the conversation of greatest Steelers wide receivers with the above mentioned. John Stallworth is also of the opinion that Wallace is in that conversation. John Stallworth is in my opinion the greatest Steelers receiver ever, then Hines, then Swann, and then Wallace since everyone appears to be keeping score.

with a minute left in the SB Wallace was given two chances in a row to help move the ball down field. On one he gave very little effort, and on the next he seemed like he gave little effort and immediatley looked around for a flag. turnover on downs, Packers run the clock out, game over. Big difference between Wallace and Holmes even.

Go watch Heath Miller on the 4th and 5 that ended the Steelers chance at winning Superbowl 45 and see if you still feel Wallace was to blame for that play. The pick 6 was also a target for Wallace that must have been his fault too.

Wallace has been Roethlisberger's favorite target over the last few years. I guess Roethlisberger is a dummy for not realizing Wallace sucks. :noidea:

harrison'samonster
02-09-2013, 09:10 PM
Go watch Heath Miller on the 4th and 5 that ended the Steelers chance at winning Superbowl 45 and see if you still feel Wallace was to blame for that play. The pick 6 was also a target for Wallace that must have been his fault too.

Wallace has been Roethlisberger's favorite target over the last few years. I guess Roethlisberger is a dummy for not realizing Wallace sucks. :noidea:

You mean it's Roethlisberger's fault? I'm not going to get into that argument now. Wallace had a chance to make play's at the end of that game, the biggest game he's been in and didn't deliver. And no the pick 6 wasn't his fault either.

I'm not saying Wallace sucks, I just don't agree with you that he's one of the top Steelers WR's.

lloydwoodson
02-09-2013, 09:11 PM
Buddy Dial is the only Steelers receiver to have ever scored more touchdowns in his first 4 years than Mike Wallace and he did it starting in 1959. Dial scored 33 touchdowns in those 4 years and I can compare him to Wallace because it wasn't the 1970s- it was the 1950s a glory era for the pro football passing attack.

No one has even mentioned dial. I guess sports media wasn't as big an influence in the 1950s.

harrison'samonster
02-09-2013, 09:17 PM
okay, I'll give you that, Mike Wallace is comparable to Buddy Dial.

lloydwoodson
02-09-2013, 09:22 PM
okay, I'll give you that, Mike Wallace is comparable to Buddy Dial.

PCRKDy1sdtU

SteelersCanada
02-09-2013, 09:28 PM
Michael Irvin had 20 TDs. Cris Carter had 22. Isaac Bruce had 28.

It's completely apples and oranges and comparing these guys to guys from the 70's is absolutely ridiculous. Why don't we compare Brady's and Brees' 5000+ yard seasons and look back with dismay at every single Quarterback in that time frame, too? Current day stats =/= stats in the 70s and comparing them is laughable.

Calvin Johnson had 33 TDs in his first four seasons - is Mike Wallace as talented as Megatron?

edit -- Mike Wallace has an elite Quarterback and arguably the best Steelers Quarterback in team history throwing to him and you're surprised that a guy that can run in straight lines has a bunch of receiving TDs? I don't see why this is so surprising and, fyi, Mike isn't one of the best Steelers WRs and to suggest he is would be kind of mind-boggling. I should run Mike's fanclub, but I'm also realistic and able to recognize that this isn't a fair nor reasonable comparison.

SteelerEmpire
02-09-2013, 10:40 PM
Can't get mad at Wallace for being a good negotiator and about his money. Any person on here that calls themselves a "true conservative" will tell you 'it's capitalism at it's finest' ! Wallace himself knows the facts that lloydwoodson ran down in frame #1 of this thread, and he's using it to his full advantage. Can't get mad at him for that !

VaDave
02-09-2013, 10:42 PM
Buddy Dial is the only Steelers receiver to have ever scored more touchdowns in his first 4 years than Mike Wallace and he did it starting in 1959. Dial scored 33 touchdowns in those 4 years and I can compare him to Wallace because it wasn't the 1970s- it was the 1950s a glory era for the pro football passing attack.

No one has even mentioned dial. I guess sports media wasn't as big an influence in the 1950s.

Dial was one heck of a player. So of couse we traded him for the rights to Scott Appleton... who refused to come to Pittsburgh.....

Fire Arians
02-09-2013, 11:43 PM
you want the guy who held out for more than 10 million to produce less than 1000 yards this season? it's too bad most of his touchdowns came in garbage time in losing efforts. the giants game was the only game this season where he had a direct hand in a win. 10 million, i better get more than 1 game-winning effort in a season

and also sat out in the last game to avoid injury to prove that he himself thinks he's greater than the team

fuck him, i wouldn't take him for the vet minimum at this point, i don't want players like that on my team, period

Steeldude
02-10-2013, 12:57 AM
I believe Wallace tries. If he doesn't try and still scored as many touchdowns as Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald put together in 2012 that is very impressive.

Scouting reports are garbage. The scouting report on Tom Brady did not say one good thing about him - literally.

Wallace had not had more than 4 drops in a season until this year.

Lance Alworth scored 42 touchdowns in his first 4 years starting in 62, Don Maynard 22 starting in 58, Don Hutson 30 starting in 35, Ditka 30 starting in 62, Cliff Branch 22 starting in 72, Billy Howton 22 starting in 52... can I compare them to players in the 70s?

This whole "new NFL" thing is a nice marketing gimmick and is true as a general rule but there have been excellent receivers and phenomenal passing attacks since the inception of the league.

You believe? If you watched the games you wouldn't believe.

Wallace had not had more than 4 drops in a season until this year

Anyone watching the games knows he has had more than 4 drops. The NFL's criteria for dropping a pass is a joke. Did Owens have good hands? No.

1978 rule change.

Scouting reports are garbage

They are correct about Wallace. What does Wallace bring besides a great 40 time? He doesn't have good hands. He isn't a good route runner. His effort is poor as are his fundamentals

Sorry, but I wouldn't want a player on the team who decides when he wants to catch the ball.

steelfury02
02-10-2013, 10:14 AM
you want the guy who held out for more than 10 million to produce less than 1000 yards this season? it's too bad most of his touchdowns came in garbage time in losing efforts. the giants game was the only game this season where he had a direct hand in a win. 10 million, i better get more than 1 game-winning effort in a season

and also sat out in the last game to avoid injury to prove that he himself thinks he's greater than the team

fuck him, i wouldn't take him for the vet minimum at this point, i don't want players like that on my team, period

this x billion. if he didn't take a 10 mil contract - which is a totally respectable and more than fair contract - then that is telling.

Mr. Pull Up and Slow Down Cause the Safety is Coming looks real great catching a ball thrown 5 yards to the side and out running everyone. When it comes to fighting for the ball and catching the hard ones, showing up in make or break games or situations, and generally helping to take the pressure off of his QB - he is absolute dog shit.

I really don't care what Swann and Stallworth say - it has no bearing in recent critical situations and playoff games where we might as well go with 2 receiver sets 'cause he's non existent. Where is Wallace's defining moment where he helped propel the team forward? I see some highlights of long bombs every now and then - BUT THAT'S IT Again, good riddance.

When the guy contributes to a huge division winning or playoff game winning effort, sign him up - otherwise, good riddance . . .

Blonde Bomber
02-10-2013, 01:43 PM
Wallace is better than Swann and Stallworth.

:sofunny: :rofl: :jawdrop:

That's a good one.

That is hilarious!!!

I remember Swann getting clocked, well not clocked but clothes-lined in the playoffs, going to the hospital for a few days, and being the MVP 2 weeks later. Wallace looks for flags when he gets pushed a little. Go back and watch some of the hits, and some of the really late hits the WR's took back then.

A respectable WR these days, even though he is on the Rats team is Boldin. He can catch the ball in traffic, while he is fighting off defenders. He at least fights for the ball and not for a flag. Anyway just my 2 cents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=2MJyn_Y8zSU&NR=1 start watching about 3:35 to see hit on Swann.

Atlanta Dan
02-10-2013, 01:59 PM
It makes me laugh how you guys so easily forget what wallace has done for this team yet tend to overlook Brown's shortcomings because he is under contract.
If you want to compare Wallace to more recent players then compare his first 3 yearsto the top WR's , Fitzgeral , Megatron, White and Marshall and you'll see Wallace is right up there with them.
I agree wallace had a down year but he's still more valuable to our team then most of you think and you'll find thatout this sseason

Wallace has had a down season and a half with a decent QB (something Fitzgerald lacks) - that is over a third of his career

This season could be attributed to adjusting to Haley's new system and Roethlisberger getting hurt again, but the end of 2011 performance that probably impacted the Steelers (and for that matter other teams) reluctance to give Wallace a big contract carried over into 2012 is there as well

The ship sailed on Wallace when he was not signed and Brown was - there is not enough restructuring salary cash available to pay Wallace and put that much money into the WR position - Steelers will miss Wallace but that is how the salary cap is supposed to work since you are not supposed to be able to sign everyone - nobody other than New England stays on top forever and even New England's problems with no deep threat WR and in the secondary are regularly exposed in the playoffs

austinfrench76
02-10-2013, 02:12 PM
I will just say this is kind of a nutty thread. Not only 2 different era's but 2 completely different NEEDED skill sets. Separation in Swann's day wasn't as easy as running in a straight line. DB's used to KILL receiver's off the line and all the way through their routes! That is all.

silver & black
02-10-2013, 02:21 PM
I don't post much in the Steelers forum, but since I'm an old guy and a long time adversary of the Steelers, I thought I would give my.02 on this.

Wallace is a good WR. He isn't in Swann's or Stallworth's league. I would venture to say that not many of today's WR's are in that league. Back in the day, WR's were molested all the way down the field. The great one's still managed to get it done.

For what it's worth, I always thought Stallworth was better than Swann.

fer522
02-10-2013, 02:49 PM
If you could get Megatron, Wallace, or Fitz for 10 mil a year who would you pick?
I'm not a stats guy, i go by what i watch on tv so Wallace would be my third option

lloydwoodson
02-10-2013, 02:55 PM
If you could get Megatron, Wallace, or Fitz for 10 mil a year who would you pick?
I'm not a stats guy, i go by what i watch on tv so Wallace would be my third option

Fitz. Fitz catches 71% of the passes thrown his way while Mega catches 55% (the same % as Wallace).

SH-Rock
02-10-2013, 02:57 PM
That is hilarious!!!

I remember Swann getting clocked, well not clocked but clothes-lined in the playoffs, going to the hospital for a few days, and being the MVP 2 weeks later. Wallace looks for flags when he gets pushed a little. Go back and watch some of the hits, and some of the really late hits the WR's took back then.

A respectable WR these days, even though he is on the Rats team is Boldin. He can catch the ball in traffic, while he is fighting off defenders. He at least fights for the ball and not for a flag. Anyway just my 2 cents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=2MJyn_Y8zSU&NR=1 start watching about 3:35 to see hit on Swann.

Name me one receiver today that doesn't beg for a flag after a play where the receiver didn't catch the ball.

steelfury02
02-10-2013, 04:23 PM
yea - its really the league's fault for the lack of consistency in calling - when you have articles that study the different officiating crews and their tendencies - that's bad

human error will always be there -but, the attitudes that the NFL has helped to generate regarding penalties is terrible

Can you imagine a Steelers player basically punching/shoving the official in the middle of a fight - the fact that the league came back on the Ravens player (I forget) and said there would be no fine is hypocritical - Steelers would have had 1-2 ejections in that game plus huge fines - count on it

Look at the whiney ass Harbaugh and how he acts and the end of the SB - this is how people act now when something doesn't go their way - and in general, society is heading in this direction - it is scary what "character" means now compared to what it used to mean . . .

kan_t
02-10-2013, 04:53 PM
Fitz. Fitz catches 71% of the passes thrown his way while Mega catches 55% (the same % as Wallace).
Larry Fitzgerald is no doubt the best WR today IMO. It's a shame that the Cards don't even have a mediocre QB to throw the ball to him.

OX1947
02-10-2013, 06:13 PM
I really wish the Steelers could work something out to get Fitz in Pittsburgh. He would be perfect on this team with Brown as #2 and Sanders in the slot. Go youth with the defense and cut and release the rest. Go young on D and then restructure the bigger contracts. I would even be willing to keep Mendy for the cheap, so the Steelers can draft more defense in the early rounds. You can get away with inexperienced youth on the defensive side. Look at Cortez and Lewis. Youth in the NFL is becoming more and more the talent now then experience. Especially in the skilled positions.

steelfury02
02-10-2013, 06:16 PM
I really wish the Steelers could work something out to get Fitz in Pittsburgh. He would be perfect on this team with Brown as #2 and Sanders in the slot. Go youth with the defense and cut and release the rest. Go young on D and then restructure the bigger contracts. I would even be willing to keep Mendy for the cheap, so the Steelers can draft more defense in the early rounds. You can get away with inexperienced youth on the defensive side. Look at Cortez and Lewis. Youth in the NFL is becoming more and more the talent now then experience. Especially in the skilled positions.

skill on D is being sacrificed for offensive firepower - I def do see that - neither SB team had great defenses - really, timely turnovers is the name of the game - yardage and points be damned - hence, shootouts in the playoff are going to be the norm now

pczach
02-10-2013, 06:21 PM
I really wish the Steelers could work something out to get Fitz in Pittsburgh. He would be perfect on this team with Brown as #2 and Sanders in the slot. Go youth with the defense and cut and release the rest. Go young on D and then restructure the bigger contracts. I would even be willing to keep Mendy for the cheap, so the Steelers can draft more defense in the early rounds. You can get away with inexperienced youth on the defensive side. Look at Cortez and Lewis. Youth in the NFL is becoming more and more the talent now then experience. Especially in the skilled positions.

Getting Fitz here would be a wet dream! :tt02: I just don't see it happening with the salary cap issues, but I'm with you on this one brother!

VaDave
02-10-2013, 09:06 PM
Me too.

Steel95
02-10-2013, 09:39 PM
The only thing Wallace has over those guys is Speed. Everything else there is to know and understand about the game of football, Wallace doesn't stand a chance.

lloydwoodson
02-11-2013, 01:19 AM
"He's about as exciting as it comes. He gets down field faster than me and Lynn did. As for being the long ball receiver, that's his forte. Swann and I thought we were longball players too, but we couldn't run like that.
"Wallace has potential to get better. That doesn't lessen what he's done, though. He has a lot of talent as a receiver already." --- John Stallworth.

-Stallworth spoke very highly of Wallace.

-At no point did I say Wallace was better than Stallworth or Swann.

-No one has compared Wallace's start to Ward's start even though they played in the same era and many people think Ward is the best Steelers receiver ever.

-Wallace compares to his peers the same way Swann and Stallworth compared to their peers- all of them were just outside of top 5 for their eras.

-Swann and Stallworth had the best Steelers quarterback ever throwing to them.

wwhickok
02-11-2013, 06:57 AM
LOL @ this thread

Steel Peon
02-11-2013, 11:01 AM
LOL @ this thread

Indeed......Also, I'd like to see the comparison of 1st downs

NSMaster56
02-11-2013, 08:47 PM
This discussion is futile anyways.

Limas Sweed was the greatest Steelers WR of all time.

Neil-Still-Rules-14
02-11-2013, 10:00 PM
If we're really going to compare stats in the first four seasons, you should at least note that Swann, Stallworth, Ward, and Brown didn't really play in their rookie seasons, while Wallace was the #3 receiver and got a decent amount of looks.

lloydwoodson
02-12-2013, 01:24 AM
If we're really going to compare stats in the first four seasons, you should at least note that Swann, Stallworth, Ward, and Brown didn't really play in their rookie seasons, while Wallace was the #3 receiver and got a decent amount of looks.

Yeah... because Wallace was awesome from the get go. Wallace had Holmes and Ward in front of him (even though Ben has never had any weapons to throw to) otherwise he would have started and put up some really monster numbers.

You guys can laugh at me now but I will have the last laugh when Wallace gets his first NFL MVP award and when he breaks all Jerry Rice's records.

teegre
02-12-2013, 01:33 AM
You guys can laugh at me now but I will have the last laugh when Wallace gets his first NFL MVP award and when he breaks all Jerry Rice's records.

Ah yes.

I remember after LaDainian had his 33 TD season (2006), everyone was saying that he'd hold EVERY record for RBs when he retired. I loved LT, but I kept saying that longevity records are not as easily attainable as one thinks.

Some day, some RB mights surpass Emmitt's record... or Eric's record... or LT's record... or, maybe even all three (very doubtful, but possible).

But, NO ONE will EVER surpass Jerry Rice.

Rice's records are an aberration... a dream... never to be repeated by any human.

lloydwoodson
02-12-2013, 02:02 AM
The thread was dying out. I had to think fast. Sure no one will ever take me seriously on this forum again but... well there's really no upside. I think it is time for a new username. I am thinking "SkipBayless69."

7 pages on a non-Roethlisberger topic is pretty good.

desertsteel
02-12-2013, 02:25 AM
I'm pretty sure that most of you wanted Arians gone last year too... seems like he's doing pretty well as Coach of the Year. Most of the same ones who wanted him gone would prefer having him to Haley now.

Be careful what you ask for...

lloydwoodson
02-12-2013, 02:52 AM
I'm pretty sure that most of you wanted Arians gone last year too... seems like he's doing pretty well as Coach of the Year. Most of the same ones who wanted him gone would prefer having him to Haley now.

Be careful what you ask for...

I was the first one wanting Arians gone haha. I'm ecstatic he is no longer the co-ordinator. I could care less about his Colts making the playoffs. The Colts were outscored by their opponents last year and some how miraculously went 11-5. I guess it was the "Bettis," "RayRay," "Gipper" effect and the Colts were trying to win one for Pagano?:noidea: I do know that the Colts had the 18th ranked offense.

Meanwhile, in Washington... Shanahan takes the second-best quarterback in the draft and has one of the most memorable regular seasons in NFL history (having to win their last 7 in a row to make the playoffs) and the 4th best NFL offense. Washington scored more points than the electric Packers' offense.

Chuck Pagano got 5.5 votes (good for second place). Give me a fucking break. Pagano didn't coach one game. 100% hype. John Harbaugh should have won the award.

Make it to the Superbowl with a quarterback who has started 7 career games and nearly pull out one of the greatest comebacks ever... sorry... Chuck Pagano had more cancer than you... maybe next year you'll get Leukemia and finally get the recognition you deserve.

teegre
02-12-2013, 08:15 AM
The thread was dying out. I had to think fast. Sure no one will ever take me seriously on this forum again but... well there's really no upside. I think it is time for a new username. I am thinking "SkipBayless69."

7 pages on a non-Roethlisberger topic is pretty good.

You weren't here last summer. Not only were the threads about Wallace 7-10 pages long, there was literally a new "Wallace thread" posted every two hours.

The topic of Wallace is (as the kids say) "played out."

VaDave
02-12-2013, 08:24 AM
Yeah, but poking fun with irreverent humor is alway welcome. Woodson is a riot.

lloydwoodson
02-12-2013, 08:41 AM
Yeah, but poking fun with irreverent humor is alway welcome. Woodson is a riot.

Well I had a schtick all lined up (I registered SkipBayless69 as a username but it hasn't gone through yet - don't know if I can have two accounts on one email). I was going to say as SkipBayless69:

Mike Wallace is the Michael Jordan of the NFL! That is to say he is the single greatest player of his or any generation! If you disagree I will make this face at you...

http://i49.tinypic.com/15wx9i.png

You have been warned!

StevieRayVol
02-12-2013, 08:33 PM
Swann and Stallworth could catch "BB"S IN THE DARK"...Plus they ran over the middle and were blasted constantly and caught everything that came their way.They are a huge reason Bradshaw is in the HOF. Possibly the two greatest wide receivers to ever play together on one team. FWIW....Stallworth/Louis Lipps weren't too shabby either.

lloydwoodson
02-13-2013, 12:42 AM
Swann and Stallworth could catch "BB"S IN THE DARK"...Plus they ran over the middle and were blasted constantly and caught everything that came their way.They are a huge reason Bradshaw is in the HOF. Possibly the two greatest wide receivers to ever play together on one team. FWIW....Stallworth/Louis Lipps weren't too shabby either.

Best ever 2 WR combos: 1. Mike Wallace and Hines Ward. 2. Jerry Rice and Terrell Owens. 3. Randy Moss and Cris Carter. 4. Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne. 5. Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey/Torrey Smith and Isaac Bruce/Herman Moore and Brett Perriman.

StevieRayVol
02-13-2013, 09:18 PM
Best ever 2 WR combos: 1. Mike Wallace and Hines Ward. 2. Jerry Rice and Terrell Owens. 3. Randy Moss and Cris Carter. 4. Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne. 5. Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey/Torrey Smith and Isaac Bruce/Herman Moore and Brett Perriman.


Think these guys could have played in the days of before 'THE MEL BLOUNT RULE"...All I know is Stallworth and Swann have 4 rings each...."THEY WERE MONEY WHEN THE GAME WAS ON THE LINE"...Lynn's Swann's catches against Dallas in Super Bowl 10 were the stuff of legend, He and Stallworth both had a good game in Super Bowl 13 and John Boy saved the day in Super Bowl 14 against The Rams...THEY WERE MONEY WHEN IT COUNTED...WHEN THE GAME WAS ON THE LINE THEY WANTED THE BALL...And you want to compare Mike Wallace with these guys

lloydwoodson
02-14-2013, 02:57 AM
Think these guys could have played in the days of before 'THE MEL BLOUNT RULE"...All I know is Stallworth and Swann have 4 rings each...."THEY WERE MONEY WHEN THE GAME WAS ON THE LINE"...Lynn's Swann's catches against Dallas in Super Bowl 10 were the stuff of legend, He and Stallworth both had a good game in Super Bowl 13 and John Boy saved the day in Super Bowl 14 against The Rams...THEY WERE MONEY WHEN IT COUNTED...WHEN THE GAME WAS ON THE LINE THEY WANTED THE BALL...And you want to compare Mike Wallace with these guys

That sums it up right there. Rings to determine an individual's ability or status... it's not just for quarterbacks any more!

This message brought to you by "I repeat ESPN verbatim" in coordination with "Those who can't think for themselves."

John Stallworth had 11 catches in 4 Superbowls.

Mike Wallace had 9 catches in 1 Superbowl.

Mike Wallace>John Stallworth>Lynn Swann

The end.

ricardisimo
02-14-2013, 03:15 AM
Wait a second... before I bother reading anymore of this thread, are you claiming that Mike Wallace is a better receiver than Jerry Rice?

zcoop
02-14-2013, 06:23 PM
Wait a second... before I bother reading anymore of this thread, are you claiming that Mike Wallace is a better receiver than Jerry Rice?

I don't think he is, he just being himself and yanking some chains. He knows better than that.

SteelersCanada
02-14-2013, 06:44 PM
But, NO ONE will EVER surpass Jerry Rice.

Rice's records are an aberration... a dream... never to be repeated by any human.

I think Megatron has a legitimate shot at breaking most, if not all, of Rice's records. I mean, he was only what? 60-odd yards short of 2000 in a single season? A lot of people thought that wouldn't ever be possible, either.

If anyone is going to do it, it'll be CJ.

pete74
02-14-2013, 07:01 PM
I think Megatron has a legitimate shot at breaking most, if not all, of Rice's records. I mean, he was only what? 60-odd yards short of 2000 in a single season? A lot of people thought that wouldn't ever be possible, either.

If anyone is going to do it, it'll be CJ.

Agreed. Moss broke his Rices touchdown record and CJ Broke his yards in a season record last year. I think before CJ retires he will own almost every record. Rice is awesome but Megatron is the most dominant WR Ihave ever seen . EVER

TheVet
02-14-2013, 07:06 PM
Who names their kid Megatron anyway?

teegre
02-14-2013, 07:08 PM
I think Megatron has a legitimate shot at breaking most, if not all, of Rice's records. I mean, he was only what? 60-odd yards short of 2000 in a single season? A lot of people thought that wouldn't ever be possible, either.

If anyone is going to do it, it'll be CJ.

We'll see. The same things were said about LT after 2006. One or two great years is easy; three or four makes one a HOFer; but, a decade (let alone fifteen years) of excellence is easier said than done.

Megatron's career has been three "12 or more" TD years, and three "5 or under" TD years. He has 54 TDs in six years (9 per year). He would need to maintain that average for SEVENTEEN more years to pass Jerry Rice (208).

It's possible... but... uh... I'm betting on Jerry.

TheVet
02-14-2013, 07:13 PM
You know, there's really quite a distance between Wallace and Lipps. And come to think of it, there's quite a distance been Stallworth/Swan and Lipps. But Lipps is a helluva lot closer to Stallworth and Swan than he is to Wallace.

Love Wallace, but he's far, far behind those other guys. Good potential, though, but the regression of the past 1.5 seasons has been disappointing. You'd really like to see progress from a young man on such a high trajectory.

lloydwoodson
02-14-2013, 10:00 PM
Lynn Swann averaged 37 catches per season for his career and most of you talk about him like he is God. You people are insane.

Cherinko
02-14-2013, 10:23 PM
Agreed. Moss broke his Rices touchdown record and CJ Broke his yards in a season record last year. I think before CJ retires he will own almost every record. Rice is awesome but Megatron is the most dominant WR Ihave ever seen . EVER

This is just bias towards the present. Rice had more yards and touchdowns than CJ at this point in his career and Rice played 19 years. Perhaps CJ and a few others could match Jerry in his prime but its the longevity that puts his records so far out there.

We'll be a lesser team without Wallace. He's our best WR. It's unfortunate we couldn't come to an agreement with him.

Bayz101
02-14-2013, 10:28 PM
Lynn Swann averaged 37 catches per season for his career and most of you talk about him like he is God. You people are insane.

Dude, i'm sorry everyone isn't up to your superiority, but please keep that "you people are insane" bullshit you spew every time someone dares to disagree with you to yourself.

SteelersCanada
02-14-2013, 10:52 PM
You're right, why would we talk highly about a guy that's in the Hall of Fame.

Terry Bradshaw only averaged 166 yards a game, why is he in the Hall of Fame? Those stats are garbage. He was a garbage Quarterback that only averaged 166 yards a game. Why did we let him play for so long! He was trash!

teegre
02-14-2013, 11:13 PM
Wait a second... in my first grade class picture, I'm wearing a Bradshaw jersey. Am I garbage? Or, am I insane? Am I insane garbage???

Why didn't my mom tell me!?! WHY!!!??!!!

SteelersCanada
02-14-2013, 11:15 PM
Wait a second... in my first grade class picture, I'm wearing a Bradshaw jersey. Am I garbage? Or, am I insane? Am I insane garbage???

Why didn't my mom tell me!?! WHY!!!??!!!

How dare you wear that jersey. You should've burned it.

teegre
02-14-2013, 11:20 PM
How dare you wear that jersey. You should've burned it.

My parents tried. Alas, I was still wearing it.

Blacksburg Zach
02-14-2013, 11:22 PM
How dare you wear that jersey. You should've burned it.

Even arson would have been too good for that garbage. Bradshaw sucks! He had only 212 TDs to 210 ints!

SteelersCanada
02-14-2013, 11:29 PM
Even arson would have been too good for that garbage. Bradshaw sucks! He had only 212 TDs to 210 ints!

How is this clown in the Hall? Obviously Joe Flacco is better.

I'd take this thread seriously if it had a shred of common sense, but since I've seen a) Mike Wallace would have 20+ TDs if he didn't have that pesky Ben Roethlisberger throwing to him and b) is better than Megatron in this thread, I've decided that it's probably not going anywhere constructive.

Blacksburg Zach
02-14-2013, 11:41 PM
How is this clown in the Hall? Obviously Joe Flacco is better.

I'd take this thread seriously if it had a shred of common sense, but since I've seen a) Mike Wallace would have 20+ TDs if he didn't have that pesky Ben Roethlisberger throwing to him and b) is better than Megatron in this thread, I've decided that it's probably not going anywhere constructive.

It seems as if every Ben/Wallace thread consists of extremists who claim Ben/Wallace is the best player at their respective positions or the absolute worst at their positions. There seem to be very few who aren't on one side or the other of that spectrum. And yeah, Joe Flacco is better is better than Bradshaw... at throwing passes up for grabs and drawing pass interference flags, or at growing a unibrow.

SteelersCanada
02-14-2013, 11:51 PM
It seems as if every Ben/Wallace thread consists of extremists who claim Ben/Wallace is the best player at their respective positions or the absolute worst at their positions. There seem to be very few who aren't on one side or the other of that spectrum.

It's ridiculous. Another thing I don't understand are the ludicrous comparisons. Why are we comparing Mike Wallace to Swann and Stallworth? Why are we comparing him to Megatron and Fitzgerald? It doesn't make any sense.

lloydwoodson
02-15-2013, 12:04 AM
Dude, i'm sorry everyone isn't up to your superiority, but please keep that "you people are insane" bullshit you spew every time someone dares to disagree with you to yourself.

I was making a generalization of the group as a whole.

You have condemned me as an individual of exhibiting systematic behaviour of reproaching others which is untrue and is, in this instance, highly ironic.

Please do not attack my character in your future posts.

I value the opinions of others far more than most people on this board and regularly congratulate others for their insight and give thanks on their posts.

Blacksburg Zach
02-15-2013, 12:08 AM
It's ridiculous. Another thing I don't understand are the ludicrous comparisons. Why are we comparing Mike Wallace to Swann and Stallworth? Why are we comparing him to Megatron and Fitzgerald? It doesn't make any sense.

I don't know why these comparisons occur. Swann and Stallworth are both in the Hall of Fame, and of course Wallace is going to put up better stats when he plays in an era when defenses are severely limited as to how they can cover and contact receivers, while Swann and Stallworth played the first few years of their careers in the pre-Mel Blount Rule era, where defensive backs could do anything outside of outright murder the opposing receivers. One cannot simply look at the numbers and make simple comparisons between players who played in different eras. Also, one cannot make fair comparisons between Wallace and Fitz/Megatron when Wallace has a far better quarterback/receivers around him to take the pressure off him. I don't think Wallace is as bad as some people on this board make him out to be, and I do think he is a good receiver, but I do not think he is on the same level as Swann, Stallworth, Megatron, Fitz, etc...

lloydwoodson
02-15-2013, 12:39 AM
You're right, why would we talk highly about a guy that's in the Hall of Fame.

Terry Bradshaw only averaged 166 yards a game, why is he in the Hall of Fame? Those stats are garbage. He was a garbage Quarterback that only averaged 166 yards a game. Why did we let him play for so long! He was trash!

Here is an interesting ESPN article that calls Lynn Swann the 3rd most overrated athlete in any sport...

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/alltimeoverrated.html

Weird... ESPN writers bring up the exact same points as me. Who knew?

I think this gives creedence to my view that Swann is far from untouchable. I won't tear Swann down to build Wallace up. That is what Ben's apologists do. What I will say is that the legend of Lynn Swann vastly outshines his actual production.

-Swann has never caught more passes than Wallace in a season. (Tell that different eras bs to Stallworth, Rashad, Jefferson, Charley Taylor etc etc etc who all outshone Wallace statistically in that era compared to this one).

-Stallworth has caught 2 more passes in Superbowls than Wallace despite playing in an additional 3.

-Stallworth himself called Wallace a bigger downfield threat than himself or Swann, and a more talented player.

But I get attacked by a mob of homers for pointing it out.

Swann belong in the HOF as making key contirbutions to a team with 8 HOF players and a HOF coach, but to listen to yall he won the games by himself.

teegre
02-15-2013, 11:46 AM
It seems as if every Ben/Wallace thread consists of extremists who claim Ben/Wallace is the best player at their respective positions or the absolute worst at their positions. There seem to be very few who aren't on one side or the other of that spectrum. And yeah, Joe Flacco is better is better than Bradshaw... at throwing passes up for grabs and drawing pass interference flags, or at growing a unibrow.

Exactly. Some people are so damned black or white that, they can not agree to ANYTHING that is posted.

I am a BB fan... but, I can see that there are things that he needs to work on.

Yet, if I bring up the fact that he threw game-losing INTs in two games, there is a faction of Steelers fans who will start yelling some asinine drivel, such as: "You hate BB... and hated Terry... and you want Yinxer football. BOOO!!!" What???

On the flip side, there are people on here (and certain other websites where Dong sacks are trademarked) that can not & will not give BB ANY credit for anything... not even for that amazing final drive in XLIII. What???

Somewhere in between is the truth. BB is an amzing QB, but he is not without fault. He has some things that he needs to do better. Ultimately, in my opinion: there is not another QB I'd rather have (his assets far, far outweigh any faults).

Queue the asinine drivel and/or ubiquitous hatred.

VaDave
02-15-2013, 06:41 PM
tee,

Like I've said, you hang around this board long enough, you will soon find out that everybody sucks, and eveybody hates everybody.... No wonder why nobody gets along.........

Dave

mikegrimey
02-15-2013, 06:54 PM
Exactly. Some people are so damned black or white that, they can not agree to ANYTHING that is posted.

I am a BB fan... but, I can see that there are things that he needs to work on.

Yet, if I bring up the fact that he threw game-losing INTs in two games, there is a faction of Steelers fans who will start yelling some asinine drivel, such as: "You hate BB... and hated Terry... and you want Yinxer football. BOOO!!!" What???

On the flip side, there are people on here (and certain other websites where Dong sacks are trademarked) that can not & will not give BB ANY credit for anything... not even for that amazing final drive in XLIII. What???

Somewhere in between is the truth. BB is an amzing QB, but he is not without fault. He has some things that he needs to do better. Ultimately, in my opinion: there is not another QB I'd rather have (his assets far, far outweigh any faults).

Queue the asinine drivel and/or ubiquitous hatred.

I agree completely, it's annoying trying to have a discussion when people on both sides want to be so dogmatic and ABSOLUTE about everthing. Take Wallace for example, as soon as he fumbled, just once, in a game last year, there were countless posts accusing him of being a fumbling machine, acting like it was a rarity for him to ever hold onto the ball. I never get why it has to be "either/or all the way" for some people. Why does Ben have to either be the best QB weve ever seen or a lucky improvising dipshit who rode great defenses to championships? Why does Wallace have to be better than Jerry Rice or a "one-trick" peon that hurts us more than he helps us. I'll never get it, if people were reasonable they'd see the truth is somewhere in the middle of those extreme statements.

teegre
02-15-2013, 08:02 PM
tee,

Like I've said, you hang around this board long enough, you will soon find out that everybody sucks, and eveybody hates everybody.... No wonder why nobody gets along.........

Dave

Well, we all can agree on one thing:
Hines Ward sucks!!!

Blacksburg Zach
02-15-2013, 10:10 PM
Well, we all can agree on one thing:
Hines Ward sucks!!!

The worst ever. He was an utter embarrassment to the game, what with his constant smiling, taking cheap shots on defenders, and catching only 1000 passes during his career.

lloydwoodson
02-15-2013, 10:19 PM
Yeah Hines Ward retired 8 catches short of tripling Swann's career total. I am going to have to say Swann was much much better than Ward because he is in the HOF and Ward is not. If Ward had caught 1010 catches or more I would have given the nod. My opinion is important to Hines Ward and I know for a fact Hines reads this forum every night. Sorry Hines! Better luck next career! Hopefully you are a better commentator.

lloydwoodson
02-15-2013, 10:59 PM
More food for thought:

Wallace is in the same class as Megatron. Know how I know? It has been brought up in the media more than once. Wallace is in the conversation with the best receiver in the game right now. That says a lot about how good he is.

When was the last time you heard Emmanuel Sanders compared to Megatron?

Heath Miller has been compared to Jason Witten.

Roethlisberger has been compared to Elway.

Good players get compared to good players.

And another thing:

Mike Wallace has made less than 4.5 million dollars for the 4 years he has spent in the league. Wouldn't you holdout if you were being compared to Megatron while making 600 000 a year? In his entire career Wallace has made just over one third of what Megatron made this year.

Are you telling me Johnson is 3 times better than Wallace? Now who is being ridiculous.

TheVet
02-16-2013, 09:00 PM
More food for thought:

Wallace is in the same class as Megatron. Know how I know? It has been brought up in the media more than once. Wallace is in the conversation with the best receiver in the game right now. That says a lot about how good he is.
...

lol lloyd, you're turning this thread into the longest troll ever!!!

SteelersCanada
02-16-2013, 10:34 PM
Mike Wallace in the same class as Megatron.

I mean, does that even deserve an answer? I don't even know if he's being serious right now. I can't tell.

lloydwoodson
02-17-2013, 03:10 AM
Mike Wallace in the same class as Megatron.

I mean, does that even deserve an answer? I don't even know if he's being serious right now. I can't tell.

You know what? Neither can I.

jb500ex
02-17-2013, 08:37 AM
Numbers don't always tell the story. We have two players the number lie about and Wallace is one of them. Let some one else blow big money on him we will be better off

tanda10506
02-17-2013, 11:34 AM
What's this "he had a down year" stuff? No he didn't, he was "down" for the entire 2nd half of the 2011 season too. That's why I and many others didn't think he deserved a contract this past off season. He proved that himself in 2012. I know some like Wallace a lot, but the excuse making time has ran out. If your young and wanting undeserved money then you better be in the process of turning yourself into a household name, not a highlight reel shame. Can't hang on to it, can't run with the ball without fumbling, and can't get open for shit when Ben is scrambling. Has he made some long plays in the past? Yes. Is he a "deep threat"? Theoretically yes. But a full season and a half is too long to be MIA and be considered a top Steeler WR, let alone the best of all time. Hines Ward, in his last 8 games as a starter, produced roughly the same "stats" as Wallace did the last 8 games of that same season. Wallace is a sub par WR with top notch capability, but since he already thinks he's worth more then $10mil, it's likely his attitude will continue to keep him an under performer, especially since he won't be catching passes from a top QB like Ben anymore.

VaDave
02-17-2013, 03:09 PM
tanda,

While agree with your post, the salient question is, are we going to be a lesser club without him? IMO, the answer is yes. Whether or not we can afford him, or whether we should afford him is entirely another one. A front loaded 3 yr contract to minimize the cap hit, at about $7.5 - $8 mill top sounds about right. If somebody wants to pay him more, let 'em.

harrison'samonster
02-17-2013, 03:23 PM
tanda,

While agree with your post, the salient question is, are we going to be a lesser club without him? IMO, the answer is yes. Whether or not we can afford him, or whether we should afford him is entirely another one. A front loaded 3 yr contract to minimize the cap hit, at about $7.5 - $8 mill top sounds about right. If somebody wants to pay him more, let 'em.

very good point. Let's be honest unless we hit the jackpot at the WR position in the Draft, we are going to miss Wallace.

steelfury02
02-18-2013, 09:35 AM
very good point. Let's be honest unless we hit the jackpot at the WR position in the Draft, we are going to miss Wallace.

have to disagree - I'll miss him like I missed Santonio Holmes - who was a SB MVP and most got over pretty quickly when we still went to a SB appearance without him and our secondary pretty much rendered him useless against us

I'll miss him like I missed El, Wilson, and Washington - who all actually helped us win a SB - sorry, WRs have come and gone.Can't agree my good sir.

harrison'samonster
02-18-2013, 09:40 AM
have to disagree - I'll miss him like I missed Santonio Holmes - who was a SB MVP and most got over pretty quickly when we still went to a SB appearance without him and our secondary pretty much rendered him useless against us

I'll miss him like I missed El, Wilson, and Washington - who all actually helped us win a SB - sorry, WRs have come and gone.Can't agree my good sir.

true, a lot of us as fans won't miss him. What I mean is the team will miss what he brings to the field.

steelfury02
02-18-2013, 09:45 AM
true, a lot of us as fans won't miss him. What I mean is the team will miss what he brings to the field.

I actually am afraid of losing our speed for YAC with the short stuff - seemed to be turning into a real bread and butter set of plays for Wallace, even though him and Ben wanted the low % deep stuff - see Wallace's Giants TD. I have faith that "good enough" speed can be found elsewhere though

we could all be pissing and moaning and he ends up staying on the cheap - who the heck knows - we got a couple weeks before the exodus, right?

SkipBayless69
02-18-2013, 11:22 AM
have to disagree - I'll miss him like I missed Santonio Holmes - who was a SB MVP and most got over pretty quickly when we still went to a SB appearance without him and our secondary pretty much rendered him useless against us

I'll miss him like I missed El, Wilson, and Washington - who all actually helped us win a SB - sorry, WRs have come and gone.Can't agree my good sir.

I can not believe what I am hearing. This is blasphemy. Are you comparing El, Wilson and Washington to the Michael Jordan of the NFL? Mike Wallace is the fastest and most handsome receiver in the game today! In no way is there another player on the Steelers let alone the entire NFL who can do what he does. Wallace is irreplacable. There, I said it.

http://i46.tinypic.com/kdophu.png

harrison'samonster
02-18-2013, 11:27 AM
I can not believe what I am hearing. This is blasphemy. Are you comparing El, Wilson and Washington to the Michael Jordan of the NFL? Mike Wallace is the fastest and most handsome receiver in the game today! In no way is there another player on the Steelers let alone the entire NFL who can do what he does. Wallace is irreplacable. There, I said it.

http://i46.tinypic.com/kdophu.png

thanks Skip, that made my day

pczach
02-18-2013, 12:31 PM
Wallace is not nearly the player Santonio Holmes was for this team. Holmes had better hands, ran better routes, had much better footwork along sidelines and endzone, worked harder to get open, went over the middle to make tough catches, was in another stratosphere when it comes to running after the catch, was an awesome ruturn man, and had a knack for playing his absolute best when it absolutely mattered the most.

TheVet
02-18-2013, 03:01 PM
true, a lot of us as fans won't miss him. What I mean is the team will miss what he brings to the field.

Well, I'll certainly miss what he brings to the field. Well, when he brought it to the field, that is - a season and a half ago. What wonderful memories.

lloydwoodson
02-18-2013, 08:48 PM
Wallace is not nearly the player Santonio Holmes was for this team. Holmes had better hands, ran better routes, had much better footwork along sidelines and endzone, worked harder to get open, went over the middle to make tough catches, was in another stratosphere when it comes to running after the catch, was an awesome ruturn man, and had a knack for playing his absolute best when it absolutely mattered the most.

Because Wallace had more catches, yards and touchdowns than Holmes in a 4 year period I'm going to have to disagree with you. In fact, even though Wallace has played 3 fewer seasons than Holmes I am confident he will have more career TDs than his predecessor at the end of next season.

pczach
02-18-2013, 09:32 PM
Because Wallace had more catches, yards and touchdowns than Holmes in a 4 year period I'm going to have to disagree with you. In fact, even though Wallace has played 3 fewer seasons than Holmes I am confident he will have more career TDs than his predecessor at the end of next season.

I understand your points. But if you see how I list my reasons, it's not about pure numbers. I think Holmes made everyone better. He was also the guy that was double teamed a ton, while not running the less demanding deep balls. He took more contact and made more tough catches and runs in his years in Pittsburgh than Wallace might have in his whole career. You have to admit, Wallace does not run over the middle much, and almost never catches the ball if a defender touches or hits him while in the act of catching. Holmes made many great catches while taking tremendous hits. If Wallace ever figures this whole game out, he can be a real gamechanger. Frankly, I think he lost his confidence about a year and a half ago. With all the contract talks and false bravado while facing the cameras and microphones, I think he definitely was affected by the pressure. The really great players in this game have an unwavering confidence that allows them to succeed even after massive screwups. It's how they're wired. Wallace doesn't have that. He may someday, but right now he talks and negotiates like he's "The Man", but in his heart I don't think HE believes it. I hope he develops and becomes all he can be. I also would love to see him do it with the Steelers if I thought he had it in him. I just don't think he has the drive and mental and physical toughness to earn and deserve the money he's asking for. It's too big of a risk to pay him with what we've seen out of him for a year and a half now. It's nothing personal, because I actually like the guy. He hasn't been a jerk, and he doesn't get in trouble. I think he listened to his agent and priced himself out of what might be the best situation he may ever have the chance to play in.

ricardisimo
02-19-2013, 07:48 AM
I think Megatron has a legitimate shot at breaking most, if not all, of Rice's records. I mean, he was only what? 60-odd yards short of 2000 in a single season? A lot of people thought that wouldn't ever be possible, either.

If anyone is going to do it, it'll be CJ.
No. Not going to happen, and certainly not by a guy who's 6-5, 240. His knees will give out way before that happens.
Agreed. Moss broke his Rices touchdown record and CJ Broke his yards in a season record last year. I think before CJ retires he will own almost every record. Rice is awesome but Megatron is the most dominant WR Ihave ever seen . EVER
The single-season stuff will drop over time, but not the career stats. Randy Moss in his prime, with the NFL's best passing QB throwing to him, on an offense running on crack, beat Rice's receiving TDs record by one. Which is to say even the single-season stuff will take time.

Not to mention how the rules have been bent since Rice's time to distort the game. Rice started to see the beginnings of these rule changes before retiring, but he didn't he didn't really benefit from them. Ranking cross-generationally is tricky, probably impossible.