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Galax Steeler
02-20-2013, 03:52 AM
By Gerry Dulac / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

INDIANAPOLIS -- Kevin Colbert already has framed the offseason plan for the Steelers. He and coach Mike Tomlin are not going to stand pat after an 8-8 season in which the team lost three of its final four games to miss the playoffs.

Not to mention the need to deal with serious salary-cap issues.

The road to change begins Thursday when the NFL combine gets under way at Lucas Oil Stadium, a six-day testing and research mission in which the Steelers need to further define the players they will seek to help them in the April draft.

And, for the first time since 2004, they need to find at least two skill players on offense -- a wide receiver and running back -- and an edge rusher who can pressure the quarterback on defense, something team president Art Rooney II suggested would help the team create more takeaways.

What's more, the Steelers cannot afford to use their No. 1 draft pick on a player who will be groomed to play in another year or two. That's a luxury they can afford after a Super Bowl season when not many roster openings are available. Not now.

With 17 unrestricted free agents, they need players to come in and play immediately, especially the one who will be the 17th overall pick.

While this crop of collegiate players does not have a defining star such as Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin III on offense or Von Miller or Ndamukong Suh on defense, it is considered a good year for defensive ends who project as outside linebackers in the NFL.

"I wouldn't want a top-10 pick this year," NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock said in a conference call. "I think the fifth pick in the draft and the 25th pick in this draft are very similar. The top 10 picks, I don't see the difference-makers that we've had the last several years."

The combine might help to sort out some of that top-10 uncertainty, but, either way, that could bode well for the Steelers.

There is no question they need at least one wide receiver, and likely two, from the draft to give Ben Roethlisberger additional weapons. And there will be a need for that receiver to play immediately with the expected departure of Mike Wallace.

But, with postseason declarations from Colbert and Rooney about the lack of pressure, the need for a pass-rushing outside linebacker would appear to be tantamount. And that need is heightened because of the situation surrounding James Harrison, who will be 35 and is scheduled to make $6.57 million this season. Harrison is coming off a season in which he had six sacks in 13 games.

Some mock drafts have the Steelers selecting Georgia's Jarvis Jones (6-2, 242), a defensive end who is projected as an outside linebacker, in the first round. That would make sense to Mayock.

Other potential edge rushers who could be converted from defensive end are Ezekial Ansah of Brigham Young, Barkevious Mingo of LSU, Alex Okafor of Texas and Dion Jordan of Oregon.

"He's explosive; he's tough; he's a playmaker," Mayock said of Jones, who had 28 sacks the past two seasons at Georgia. "He fits in that 4-3, which is what he already played, but some teams that are in the 3-4 like him. The teams like Pittsburgh, they don't care as much about length as some of the other 3-4 teams do. Pittsburgh looks at an outside linebacker and says, 'Hey, he needs to be explosive. He needs to be able to disengage from blocks. He needs to be able to pressure a quarterback.'

"LaMarr Woodley. That's who those guys look like ... Harrison. They look more like him than they do some of the old-school, long 3-4 guys. So, yeah, some of the 3-4 teams will see him and say, 'Yes, he can play in what we do.' "

In other words, an edge rusher who can pressure the quarterback without the help of a scheme.

Inside linebackers Lawrence Timmons and Larry Foote accounted for 27 percent of the team's sacks in 2012 (10 of 37), but their pressure comes as a result of a scheme that springs them free.

Jones could be a top-10 pick, but his medical condition -- he was diagnosed with stenosis, a narrowing of the spinal column, in 2009 -- will receive much scrutiny at the combine. Mayock likes Jones more than Mingo (6-4, 230), who is being projected as a possible top-10 pick, if not top five.

"A lot of people have him in the top 10, I've got him at the end of the first round," Mayock said. "He's got a little bit of stiffness to him. He obviously runs very fast. When the ball goes away from him, he's fantastic. He's a run-and-chase linebacker. I think he's got some upside as a pass-rusher. There's nothing about the kid I don't like, I just don't see a top-10 guy today."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/hunt-for-three-key-draftees-heats-up-for-steelers-676086/#ixzz2LQnuhnSM

The_Joker
02-20-2013, 06:21 AM
Running Back

Running Back

Running Back

That is all

teegre
02-20-2013, 08:12 AM
Running Back

Running Back

Running Back

That is all

I wouldn't draft three running backs...

wwhickok
02-20-2013, 08:15 AM
I have a few gut feelings. Part of me believes they'll draft Jesse Williams. Another part of me believes they'll draft Manti Te'o. Neither of those address their biggest needs. My final gut feeling is that the #17 overall pick is going to ......



WR Cordarrelle Patterson or a trade back to acquire more picks and get Hopkins or Hunter in the first. I honestly believe Patterson is the pick. He is maybe one of a short list of guys that starts game 1.

wwhickok
02-20-2013, 08:16 AM
I wouldn't draft three running backs...

Lol me either

teegre
02-20-2013, 08:33 AM
I still say Elam/Vaccaro.

Ed Bouchette mentions that this is Troy's final season & Clark will be a FA after this season... and, Ed also says that their replacements will be found in THIS draft. Hence, I see two safeties drafted (something I've wanted second to Elam is a safety tandem).

Since this is an extremely deep draft for safeties, they could wait (to my disdain)... but, I still would not be surprised is Elam/Vaccaro is the pick at 17.

When this defense has been dominant, it's had a great SS (and/or a very good tandem).

Shell... Wagner
Lake... Perry
Polamalu... Hope/Clark
Elam/Vaccaro... Swearinger/McDonald/Williams/Rambo/Jefferson

fer522
02-20-2013, 08:51 AM
I wouldn't draft three running backs...

Me either I'd draft FIVE running backs :chuckle:

WVABE
02-20-2013, 09:14 AM
Just watch, a qb early in the draft.

Vis
02-20-2013, 09:20 AM
I Another part of me believes they'll draft Manti Te'o. .


You could be his new online girlfriend.

teegre
02-20-2013, 10:09 AM
Elam aside...

Using solely the points made in this article as the criteria for the first three rounds of the draft, it would be one of these combinations:

OLB, RB, WR
OLB, WR, RB
WR, RB, OLB
WR, OLB, RB

First, RB in R1 is not an option, because there is no RB worthy of the 17th pick. Thus, those two options (RB, WR, OLB & RB, OLB, WR) were not listed.

After R1, the OLBs significantly drop off. Thus, it would make more sense to go for the OLB in R1, followed by either a WR then RB/a RB then WR. I truly do not feel that any of these WRs are really the best value at 17. Thus, let's assume that it is an OLB.

R1: OLB: Jarvis Jones, Dion Jordan, Barkevious Mingo, Sam Montgomery
(Bjeorn Werner, Demontre Moore)

Moving on to R2. If Eddie Lacy or Giovanni Bernard were there, they would be a solid pick (although, I'd prefer to go in another direction, those two players would be value picks). BUT, if those two are gone (which is most likely), then I say go after Tavon Austin, WVU. Sure, he's small, but he is dangerous.

Also, I like one of the three "Big E" TEs: Eiffert, Erzt, & Escobar. I think that a second TE would be great in the red-zone.

R2: WR: Tavon Austin, Robert Woods, Justin Huner, TE: Eiffert, Erzt, Escobar
(DeAndre Hopkins... RB: Eddie Lacy, Giovanni Bernard).

Now, we come to R3, where there will be a ton of RBs available (as well as some WRs who need some "polishing").

R3: RB: Montee Ball, Mike Gillislee, Marcus Lattimore WR: Aaron Dobson, Cobi Hamilton, Ryan Swope

Summation:
If I were to make the picks... and being realistic/not projecting Hopkins to be there in R2 (although "anything is possible")... here is what I'd take.

R1: Jarvis Jones, OLB
R2: Tavon Austin, WR
R3: Marcus Lattimore, RB

casteeler
02-20-2013, 01:14 PM
Just watch, a qb early in the draft.

Agreed,while everyone and his brother insists that the draft class is poor I can see the Steelers shocking everyone and drafting a QB in the first or second round. The fact that the Steelers stated they wouldn't rule drafting a QB early makes you think they have been scouting and planing

SteelersCanada
02-20-2013, 01:49 PM
I'm going to have to see the combine, then I'll give my 2 cents on this. That being said, if Jones is on the board at 17 (which is very, very unlikely) then it's a no-brainer. That being said, it'll come down to Jordan or Mingo. If one of those two is on the board, then we have to go with him. I hope both aren't because I'd hate to make that decision.

Hawaii 5-0
02-20-2013, 01:54 PM
I wouldn't draft three running backs...

you're right, we need at least four...:chuckle:

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-20-2013, 02:08 PM
I still say Elam/Vaccaro.

Ed Bouchette mentions that this is Troy's final season & Clark will be a FA after this season... and, Ed also says that their replacements will be found in THIS draft. Hence, I see two safeties drafted (something I've wanted second to Elam is a safety tandem).

Since this is an extremely deep draft for safeties, they could wait (to my disdain)... but, I still would not be surprised is Elam/Vaccaro is the pick at 17.

When this defense has been dominant, it's had a great SS (and/or a very good tandem).

Shell... Wagner
Lake... Perry
Polamalu... Hope/Clark
Elam/Vaccaro... Swearinger/McDonald/Williams/Rambo/Jefferson

I know that I am in the minority, but I think Robert Golden can be the FS of the future with the Steelers.I think we see an OLB in the 1st, a safety in the 2nd and a WR or ILB in the 3rd.

teegre
02-20-2013, 02:28 PM
I know that I am in the minority, but I think Robert Golden can be the FS of the future with the Steelers.I think we see an OLB in the 1st, a safety in the 2nd and a WR or ILB in the 3rd.

I agree to a degree: the Steelers have always had one safety that was the "star" (Troy, Lake) and one that was a "no name", who was then developed to play with that star (Perry, Clark, even Brent Alexander).

I could be on board with Elam & Golden... but... if there's a safety like Swearinger or Rambo or McDonald available in the later rounds... (and safeties do indeed slip in R5 & R6)... it'd be hard to pass on that type of talent.

Elam & Swearinger/Rambo/McDonald would be awfully nice.

BKAnthem
02-20-2013, 02:46 PM
Well if there is an OLB worth taking number 1..does that mean Deebo is gone?

teegre
02-21-2013, 10:18 AM
Well if there is an OLB worth taking number 1..does that mean Deebo is gone?

Chances are, whatever they decide to do with Harrison, will happen BEFORE the draft. (Teams need to be under the cap by March 12.)

That said, if the Steelers draft an OLB in R1, the could still cut Harrison (& use whatever money they save to extend Pouncey or Heath). But, chances are, if Harrison makes it past the huge amount of cuts that are coming, he'll be in Pittsburgh for next season (w/ the rookie rotating in, much like they did with Woodley as a rookie).

SteelersCanada
02-21-2013, 10:28 AM
We should snag Jordan / Mingo / Moore in the first and grab McDonald in the second (Elam is off the board, sadly) and Rambo in the fourth. Boom goes the dynamite.

teegre
02-21-2013, 10:32 AM
We should snag Jordan / Mingo / Moore in the first and grab McDonald in the second (Elam is off the board, sadly) and Rambo in the fourth. Boom goes the dynamite.

No Elam??? (Teegre grabs his ball and runs home.)

SteelersCanada
02-21-2013, 10:34 AM
No Elam??? (Teegre grabs his ball and runs home.)

It's entirely possible that he slides to the 38 - 40th pick and the Steelers trade up to grab him. It wouldn't take a whole lot, either, which is the best thing. Something like -

To Buffalo

2nd Round Pick
5th Round Pick
2014 6th Round Pick

To Steelers

2nd Round Pick
2014 7th Round Pick

I'd do that deal in a heartbeat.

teegre
02-21-2013, 10:40 AM
It's entirely possible that he slides to the 38 - 40th pick and the Steelers trade up to grab him. It wouldn't take a whole lot, either, which is the best thing. Something like -

To Buffalo

2nd Round Pick
5th Round Pick
2014 6th Round Pick

To Steelers

2nd Round Pick
2014 7th Round Pick

I'd do that deal in a heartbeat.

With the rise of John Cyprien (he is now mocked by most in the 25-30 range), Elam could slip into R2... although, I see him in San Fran. Even if he gets into R2, I do not see him getting past the Bengals at 37.

Side-note: I am not a big fan of McDonald. He's not bad, but there are simply other safeties I'd take in R2. That said, if McDonald was there in R4, I'd take him. (Make sense?)

teegre
02-21-2013, 03:59 PM
We should snag Jordan / Mingo / Moore in the first and grab McDonald in the second (Elam is off the board, sadly) and Rambo in the fourth. Boom goes the dynamite.

Using similar logic, but swapping the first two rounds for S and OLB, how does this sound?

S
OLB
WR / TE
S

R1: S: Matt Elam, Kenny Vaccaro
R2: OLB: Corey Lemonier (Khaseem Greene)
R3: WR: Swope, Dobson, Hamilton, Patton TE: Escobar
R4: S: Swearinger, Rambo, McDonald, Williams (either one), Motta

casteeler
02-22-2013, 05:02 PM
The Steelers were #1 total defense,#1 Passing defense but #14 Passing offense and #22 Rushing the ball. I understand that this years draft has an awesome crop of defensive talent but it seems that the Steelers need a lot more help offensively, allowing Lacy to pass the Steelers by seems flat out dumb. If the Steelers used #1 on Lacy and missed out on a DT or LB isn't the draft deep enough to find one in the 3rd or 4th? The team is well equipped at WR even after releasing Wallace but really could benefit from a TE,maybe I'm missing something:noidea:

teegre
02-22-2013, 05:22 PM
The Steelers were #1 total defense,#1 Passing defense but #14 Passing offense and #22 Rushing the ball. I understand that this years draft has an awesome crop of defensive talent but it seems that the Steelers need a lot more help offensively, allowing Lacy to pass the Steelers by seems flat out dumb. If the Steelers used #1 on Lacy and missed out on a DT or LB isn't the draft deep enough to find one in the 3rd or 4th? The team is well equipped at WR even after releasing Wallace but really could benefit from a TE,maybe I'm missing something:noidea:

1. The offense has youth. All of these starters are three years in or less (25 years or younger):
AB, Sanders, Pouncey, DD, Gilbert, Adams... even Beachum.

The three RBs (Redman, Dwyer, Batch), while not very effective, are young, too.

BB and Heath are the only two "old" guys.

2. The four "blue chip" O-linemen have NEVER played a down together. There is a lot of promise (assuming that they stay healthy). The thought is that if they play well, those three "average" RBs will be running through HUGE holes & gaining 4 YPC.

3. Lacy at 17: NO.
Lacy in R2: OKAY.
There is better value at 17 than Lacy... even on the offensive side of the ball. If you want offense, Chance Warmack & Tavon Austin are better players; heck, John Cooper is a better value than Lacy.

4. The drop-off between Lacy and (let's say) Gillislee is not very big... but, Gillislee can be had in R3.

5. The defense is oooooold. The safeties are both gone after this season. Harrison might be gone now. And, Foote... well, you've read those threads.

casteeler
02-22-2013, 07:59 PM
1. The offense has youth. All of these starters are three years in or less (25 years or younger):
AB, Sanders, Pouncey, DD, Gilbert, Adams... even Beachum.

The three RBs (Redman, Dwyer, Batch), while not very effective, are young, too.

BB and Heath are the only two "old" guys.

2. The four "blue chip" O-linemen have NEVER played a down together. There is a lot of promise (assuming that they stay healthy). The thought is that if they play well, those three "average" RBs will be running through HUGE holes & gaining 4 YPC.

3. Lacy at 17: NO.
Lacy in R2: OKAY.
There is better value at 17 than Lacy... even on the offensive side of the ball. If you want offense, Chance Warmack & Tavon Austin are better players; heck, John Cooper is a better value than Lacy.

4. The drop-off between Lacy and (let's say) Gillislee is not very big... but, Gillislee can be had in R3.

5. The defense is oooooold. The safeties are both gone after this season. Harrison might be gone now. And, Foote... well, you've read those threads.

I like your point of needing a Saftey due to age.The defense is oooold buuuut the RBs suuuuck.Lacy appears to be a running back that the Steelers could use every down and in every situation for years to come. Lacy just plays like a Steeler

WokeUpWithaWoodley
02-22-2013, 08:06 PM
I like your point of needing a Saftey due to age.The defense is oooold buuuut the RBs suuuuck.Lacy appears to be a running back that the Steelers could use every down and in every situation for years to come. Lacy just plays like a Steeler

Lacy averaged at least 5 yards before any contact, he won't get that at the next level esp with the steelers. Round one to high for him and he won't be there when we pick in second.

teegre
02-22-2013, 09:01 PM
I like your point of needing a Saftey due to age.The defense is oooold buuuut the RBs suuuuck.Lacy appears to be a running back that the Steelers could use every down and in every situation for years to come. Lacy just plays like a Steeler

"buuuut the RBs suuuuck."

That part made me laugh. Nicely played.

Really though, the running game comes down to two things:

1) Value. At 17, Lacy is not the best player in the board. While he might be the best RB on this draft, and he plays like a Steeler, trading back would be the smart move (if one wanted Lacy). Make sense?

2) O-line. During the NYGiants game, the O-line was at their healthiest... and they forced their will on the G-men. In other words, a dominating O-line makes any RB look good. So, one should focus on the O-line. (And, again, the four blue-chippers have not played a single down together. I think that you will like this new O-line.)

SUMMATION:
There are a ton of very good (albeit not great) RBs that can be had in R2-R5. Unless one trades back for Lacy (to 28), it would be better "value" to grab one of those second-tier RBs... to play behind a re-vamped O-line.

VaDave
02-23-2013, 07:15 AM
Always room for another blue chip OLman.

Steel_Bus_24
02-23-2013, 09:54 AM
While I wouldn't scoff at us taking an elite OL in the 1st because we've neglected it for so many years before this recent stint.........You have to think the wear an tear on our safeties and horrible pass rush will make us go S or OLB before OL

teegre
02-23-2013, 10:04 AM
While I wouldn't scoff at us taking an elite OL in the 1st because we've neglected it for so many years before this recent stint.........You have to think the wear an tear on our safeties and horrible pass rush will make us go S or OLB before OL

It all depends on who's there at 17.

If Jarvis Jones, Ezekial Ansah (who, reportedly, they love), Chance Warmack, & Kenny Vaccaro are all still available... tough decision.

If all of the OLBs are gone, Vaccaro is gone, and Warmack is gone... who knows???

And, there are multiple combinations of some of those aforementioned players being or not being there.

pczach
02-23-2013, 11:06 AM
If the Steelers have their man at 17 they make the pick. If not, they move down, and use the extra pick to move up in the 2nd to get 2 players in the top 40-45 picks. I don't think any RB is worthy of a 1st round selection, and drafting just for need can get you in trouble if you reach. They will probably take the highest available on their board at LB, S, or WR in the 1st round. After that, I would try to move up to get targeted players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. With the 4th round picks or later I would love to see them take a flyer on a Lattimore or Mauti type player(Huge upside, great character, natural leaders, playmakers, 1st round talent but injured). We also have to be prepared for the possiblity that with the Steelers losing many players, there's a good chance they'll move down a couple times to pick up lots of additional picks. Lots of fresh bodies are needed. I'll try not to get frustrated, but I can't promise anything!:wink02:

harrison'samonster
02-23-2013, 11:18 AM
If the Steelers have their man at 17 they make the pick. If not, they move down, and use the extra pick to move up in the 2nd to get 2 players in the top 40-45 picks. I don't think any RB is worthy of a 1st round selection, and drafting just for need can get you in trouble if you reach. They will probably take the highest available on their board at LB, S, or WR in the 1st round. After that, I would try to move up to get targeted players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. With the 4th round picks or later I would love to see them take a flyer on a Lattimore or Mauti type player(Huge upside, great character, natural leaders, playmakers, 1st round talent but injured). We also have to be prepared for the possiblity that with the Steelers losing many players, there's a good chance they'll move down a couple times to pick up lots of additional picks. Lots of fresh bodies are needed. I'll try not to get frustrated, but I can't promise anything!:wink02:

that last point is very true. I wouldn't be to upset myself if this is the case.

pczach
02-23-2013, 01:59 PM
that last point is very true. I wouldn't be to upset myself if this is the case.

I also think that if they move down to get more picks that they are more likely to gamble on a player with an injury concern.....or two.:popcorn:

PhantomJB93
02-23-2013, 02:29 PM
When was the last time the Steelers actually moved down? We talk about it every year on here because we're always in that awkward draft position where everyone from pick 15-32 seems the same, and we sit here and fantasize about picking up that extra second or third, but it never happens. We occasionally move up if there's somebody we REALLY want, and if there isn't there's always somebody we have pinpointed to take at our actual pick, whether it's a slight reach or not. There's always somebody our front office has picked out and they don't risk trading back in case somebody else wants them too.

It's possible a trade-back could happen in a later round but we're either picking at 17 or moving up to get a Jones, Ansah, Patterson, or Te'o who somebody else is likely to take.

Anyway, as for me I'm hoping we go LB in the first (Jones, Ansah, or Te'o), WR in the second (Hopkins, Hunter, Rogers, or Woods), and RB in the third (Lattimore or Ball). Then grab a safety or TE in the later rounds.

teegre
02-23-2013, 04:03 PM
If the Steelers have their man at 17 they make the pick. If not, they move down, and use the extra pick to move up in the 2nd to get 2 players in the top 40-45 picks. I don't think any RB is worthy of a 1st round selection, and drafting just for need can get you in trouble if you reach. They will probably take the highest available on their board at LB, S, or WR in the 1st round. After that, I would try to move up to get targeted players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. With the 4th round picks or later I would love to see them take a flyer on a Lattimore or Mauti type player(Huge upside, great character, natural leaders, playmakers, 1st round talent but injured). We also have to be prepared for the possiblity that with the Steelers losing many players, there's a good chance they'll move down a couple times to pick up lots of additional picks. Lots of fresh bodies are needed. I'll try not to get frustrated, but I can't promise anything!:wink02:

This is THE draft to trade down.

Most years, the top ten is far, far better. This year, the players in the top ten are not significantly better than those available at twenty. That's not belittling the top ten; it means that this draft is just very deep.

Again, there are about 20-25 very good players. Then, there is about 20-25 more players in that second tier... who are just a peg below that first group. Thus, this is THE year to have multiple picks in the first two rounds.

Trade back to 25, and acquire an extra R2 pick. Heck, I would not be upset with trading back from 25, and acquiring a third R2 pick. For example:

34: Elam, SS
47: Austin, WR
57: Lattimore, RB
R3: Lemonier, OLB

teegre
02-23-2013, 04:07 PM
When was the last time the Steelers actually moved down? We talk about it every year on here because we're always in that awkward draft position where everyone from pick 15-32 seems the same, and we sit here and fantasize about picking up that extra second or third, but it never happens. We occasionally move up if there's somebody we REALLY want, and if there isn't there's always somebody we have pinpointed to take at our actual pick, whether it's a slight reach or not. There's always somebody our front office has picked out and they don't risk trading back in case somebody else wants them too.

It's possible a trade-back could happen in a later round but we're either picking at 17 or moving up to get a Jones, Ansah, Patterson, or Te'o who somebody else is likely to take.

Anyway, as for me I'm hoping we go LB in the first (Jones, Ansah, or Te'o), WR in the second (Hopkins, Hunter, Rogers, or Woods), and RB in the third (Lattimore or Ball). Then grab a safety or TE in the later rounds.

Your comments about trading back are based on fact, history, & logic. We deal solely with "what we want" in the months leading up to the draft. Get it together, man!!!

pczach
02-23-2013, 08:43 PM
Fans always want what they want, but the Steelers always have a plan and they stick to it. The thing we never know is the list of evaluations on players. They will have a list of targeted players and where they think they can get them in the draft. If a player they covet is available when their pick comes up, they take him. If they know they can get that player later, or a similarly rated player, they can move down and get additional picks. That's why the draft is so exciting and difficult to predict. Nobody knows for sure which players will be taken or when. They have to react on the fly. The one thing we know for sure is that this draft is not top heavy. Most experts are saying that there is not much difference between the #2 pick or the #30 pick. There is a lot of depth, particularly on defense. I was just pointing out that the team may be releasing up to 15 players from last years roster. That's a ton of bodies that have to be replaced. This will all depend on how many players are released, but the team will already know who's staying and who's going. If there are lots of roster spots to fill, you can count on them moving down, particularly with the talent available late in this draft. This isn't a year after winning the Super Bowl, where the roster is going to be relatively unchanged and you are just adding depth and complimentary talent. You can target a particular player or two and just take best available when your picks come up.

I think all past patterns can go out the window this year. The Steelers need to do what they have to do to strengthen the team. We'll know when we find out who is being let go and how many holes have to be filled.

SteelersCanada
02-24-2013, 06:04 PM
Using similar logic, but swapping the first two rounds for S and OLB, how does this sound?

S
OLB
WR / TE
S

R1: S: Matt Elam, Kenny Vaccaro
R2: OLB: Corey Lemonier (Khaseem Greene)
R3: WR: Swope, Dobson, Hamilton, Patton TE: Escobar
R4: S: Swearinger, Rambo, McDonald, Williams (either one), Motta

I saw you post this and I thought I responded but apparently I didn't hit submit. So, here we go again!

I don't have a problem with that at all. If that's the way they go, I'm all for it actually. However, specific guys have to be off the board for this to be done. Jordan, Mingo and Moore all have to be off the board for me to feel comfortable with that. Also, I'd only take Elam if we find someone to trade down with (which, by the way, is looking more and more likely. I have a feeling that Warmack and Cooper are both going to be there at 17 and someone like the Vikings, Packers or Patriots are going to offer to trade. Or the 49ers who have 14 picks). I like the Lemonier pick, too, and I feel as if he's sorta flying under the radar. I won't critique your other picks because you wrote this pre-combine, but there's a couple of WRs who made my jaw drop today. I feel as if Escobar in the third round is an absolute must if he's there. You convinced me, brah - the kid is forreal.

teegre
02-24-2013, 11:58 PM
I saw you post this and I thought I responded but apparently I didn't hit submit. So, here we go again!

I don't have a problem with that at all. If that's the way they go, I'm all for it actually. However, specific guys have to be off the board for this to be done. Jordan, Mingo and Moore all have to be off the board for me to feel comfortable with that. Also, I'd only take Elam if we find someone to trade down with (which, by the way, is looking more and more likely. I have a feeling that Warmack and Cooper are both going to be there at 17 and someone like the Vikings, Packers or Patriots are going to offer to trade. Or the 49ers who have 14 picks). I like the Lemonier pick, too, and I feel as if he's sorta flying under the radar. I won't critique your other picks because you wrote this pre-combine, but there's a couple of WRs who made my jaw drop today. I feel as if Escobar in the third round is an absolute must if he's there. You convinced me, brah - the kid is forreal.

OLBs: They'll likely all be gone.

ELAM: True. While I want Elam on the Steelers, the smartest move would be to trade back & draft him at 25ish. Actually, if John Cyprien keeps gaining momentum, Elam could drop into R2.

ESCOBAR: I am pleased to have convinced you. :wink02: I watched Escobar many a night, and the kid is Aaron Hernandez. He also reminds me quite a bit of Heath Miller, in the sense that Ryan Lindley played like BB: scramble around, look downfield, and then hit Escobar to convert the third down. Escobar actually had a better sophomore season (better QB)... so, he actually lost some draft status... and now, with his bad combine, he would be a R4 steal for the Steelers. R3 makes a ton of sense, and I would gladly applaud his selection in that round.

VaDave
02-25-2013, 06:44 AM
Fans always want what they want, but the Steelers always have a plan and they stick to it. The thing we never know is the list of evaluations on players. They will have a list of targeted players and where they think they can get them in the draft. If a player they covet is available when their pick comes up, they take him. If they know they can get that player later, or a similarly rated player, they can move down and get additional picks. That's why the draft is so exciting and difficult to predict. Nobody knows for sure which players will be taken or when. They have to react on the fly. The one thing we know for sure is that this draft is not top heavy. Most experts are saying that there is not much difference between the #2 pick or the #30 pick. There is a lot of depth, particularly on defense. I was just pointing out that the team may be releasing up to 15 players from last years roster. That's a ton of bodies that have to be replaced. This will all depend on how many players are released, but the team will already know who's staying and who's going. If there are lots of roster spots to fill, you can count on them moving down, particularly with the talent available late in this draft. This isn't a year after winning the Super Bowl, where the roster is going to be relatively unchanged and you are just adding depth and complimentary talent. You can target a particular player or two and just take best available when your picks come up.



I think all past patterns can go out the window this year. The Steelers need to do what they have to do to strengthen the team. We'll know when we find out who is being let go and how many holes have to be filled.

I hear ya, there is going to be a ton of roster spots open on our team, but if Jonathan Cooper is on the board at 17, you got to take him.. We'd have the best, youngest, talented Oline in the league, possibly for years.

SteelersCanada
02-25-2013, 12:13 PM
OLBs: They'll likely all be gone.

ELAM: True. While I want Elam on the Steelers, the smartest move would be to trade back & draft him at 25ish. Actually, if John Cyprien keeps gaining momentum, Elam could drop into R2.

ESCOBAR: I am pleased to have convinced you. :wink02: I watched Escobar many a night, and the kid is Aaron Hernandez. He also reminds me quite a bit of Heath Miller, in the sense that Ryan Lindley played like BB: scramble around, look downfield, and then hit Escobar to convert the third down. Escobar actually had a better sophomore season (better QB)... so, he actually lost some draft status... and now, with his bad combine, he would be a R4 steal for the Steelers. R3 makes a ton of sense, and I would gladly applaud his selection in that round.

Well, we're going to have to "settle" for Mingo because Jordan had an insane combine. I mean, settling for Mingo is still one of the better picks in the draft but I really, really wanted Jordan. Damontre Moore is also in the conversation - he had a terrible conversation and 12 reps on the bench is unacceptable. His stock just dropped considerably.

I'd take Escobar in the third. Means Lattimore in the second, though. So, we can't take a Safety until at least R4 which could be a problem.

teegre
02-26-2013, 12:40 AM
Well, we're going to have to "settle" for Mingo because Jordan had an insane combine. I mean, settling for Mingo is still one of the better picks in the draft but I really, really wanted Jordan. Damontre Moore is also in the conversation - he had a terrible conversation and 12 reps on the bench is unacceptable. His stock just dropped considerably.

I'd take Escobar in the third. Means Lattimore in the second, though. So, we can't take a Safety until at least R4 which could be a problem.

Not that I want to wait that long, but it is a deep, deep draft for safeties. Assuming it's Jones/Mingo/Ansah in R1, then Lattimore & Escobar in R2 & R3, this could be R4 & R5: Swearinger & Williams.

Not too shabby.

teegre
02-26-2013, 12:41 AM
I hear ya, there is going to be a ton of roster spots open on our team, but if Jonathan Cooper is on the board at 17, you got to take him.. We'd have the best, youngest, talented Oline in the league, possibly for years.

Someone agrees with you.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/02/steelers-jonathan-cooper-chase-warmack-draft-board/

pczach
02-27-2013, 02:54 PM
I hear ya, there is going to be a ton of roster spots open on our team, but if Jonathan Cooper is on the board at 17, you got to take him.. We'd have the best, youngest, talented Oline in the league, possibly for years.

I don't disagree with you. I'm just saying that we don't know who the Steelers have on their list of top players. If he's available at 17 and the Steelers have him rated as a top 10 player, they are going to take him. All this depends on who's already off the board when the Steelers make their picks and who's available, and where they are rated on the teams list of players from best to worst. If there's value, they make the pick. If not, they move down if possible.

TheVet
02-27-2013, 11:25 PM
I hear ya, there is going to be a ton of roster spots open on our team, but if Jonathan Cooper is on the board at 17, you got to take him.. We'd have the best, youngest, talented Oline in the league, possibly for years.

This would make me very happy! :thumbsup:

SteelersCanada
03-02-2013, 02:37 PM
Here's an interesting situation:

Say you're sitting on the board at 17 and Jacksonville calls you. This is what they offer:

To Jacksonville:

17th Overall Selection
47th Overall Selection
2014 5th Round Pick

To Steelers:

2014 First Round Pick
33rd Overall Selection
2014 Second Round Pick
2014 Fourth Round Pick

Do you take it? Now, bear in mind, there's a very good chance that Jacksonville ends up with at least the third overall selection with the potential to be selecting first overall which means Jadeveon Clowney or Teddy Bridgewater, should we choose to go the Quarterback route. Now, "Johnny Football" is eligible for next years draft and you know teams are going to want to trade up for a Heisman winner. You're looking at the potential for multiple first and second round picks in that situation. If I'm in that situation, I can't say the words "done deal" fast enough.

There are a couple of drawbacks, though. For starters, we're out of the Vaccaro and Mingo sweepstakes. Next, we're probably out of the Cornelius Carradine sweepstakes at that point, too. We wouldn't have an extra second round pick in this years draft but would be stockpiling them for next year.

I say the pro's outweigh the con's. But hey, I'm just bored.

harrison'samonster
03-02-2013, 02:50 PM
Steelers Canada, I like it I just think we have to many needs this year.

Wallace17
03-03-2013, 11:51 AM
1st round- Ezikel Ansah please please please do not pass on this guy. Hopefully he is still there If not take the risk on Javris Jones. I would not mind Ogletree or Dion Jordan Either. If none are availble take some offense. Cordelle patterson or Eddie Lacy would fit nice as well.
2nd Round- We do not get anything through offense at this point we need a back at this point Monte Ball fit our mold or Eddie Lacy. Lacy is the safe Pick but Ball has steeler written all over him. Im usally not wrong about running backs. I wanted Ray Rice when we had the chance to draft him over mendenhall. Good pick tomlin.
3rd round-Ok this is our round to grab a wide reciever I say Robert Woods all day this guy is a pure hands wide reciever. He was easily the best WR at the combine. If he is gone buy then Justin Hunter a big 6'4" guy the only thing that worrys me is another big WR like limas Sweed.
4th-Baccari Rambo we need to get younger at FS. Thats All i Am saying hey if hunter or woods are still availible take another wr would be a steal but we need to get younger at safety and rambo is a beast
5th- I know we proably already would have a running back by now but two isnt going to cut it take marcus Lattimore he would of prob been a first round pick if not for his knee.
6th- Jake stoneburner TE- Miller is hurt and pope sucks.
7th round- Denard robinson WR,QB and Mike Mutati ILB

kan_t
03-04-2013, 12:13 AM
Here's an interesting situation:

Say you're sitting on the board at 17 and Jacksonville calls you. This is what they offer:

To Jacksonville:

17th Overall Selection
47th Overall Selection
2014 5th Round Pick

To Steelers:

2014 First Round Pick
33rd Overall Selection
2014 Second Round Pick
2014 Fourth Round Pick

Do you take it? Now, bear in mind, there's a very good chance that Jacksonville ends up with at least the third overall selection with the potential to be selecting first overall which means Jadeveon Clowney or Teddy Bridgewater, should we choose to go the Quarterback route. Now, "Johnny Football" is eligible for next years draft and you know teams are going to want to trade up for a Heisman winner. You're looking at the potential for multiple first and second round picks in that situation. If I'm in that situation, I can't say the words "done deal" fast enough.

There are a couple of drawbacks, though. For starters, we're out of the Vaccaro and Mingo sweepstakes. Next, we're probably out of the Cornelius Carradine sweepstakes at that point, too. We wouldn't have an extra second round pick in this years draft but would be stockpiling them for next year.

I say the pro's outweigh the con's. But hey, I'm just bored.

That's a no-brainer from the Steelers side. You can then try to trade the 2014 2nd and 4th rounds picks for another 2013 pick.

Hawaii 5-0
03-04-2013, 12:45 AM
Means Lattimore in the second, though. So, we can't take a Safety until at least R4 which could be a problem.

no way do you draft Lattimore in the second round, he may not even be able to play at all this year...

Fire Haley
03-04-2013, 03:07 PM
It all depends on who's there at 17.


quite right

if DE/OLB Mingo/Jarvis Jones, S Kenny Vacaro and maybe even WR Tavon Austin is there - which way do you go?

only the Big Board knows

steelfury02
03-04-2013, 03:34 PM
quite right

if DE/OLB Mingo/Jarvis Jones, S Kenny Vacaro and maybe even WR Tavon Austin is there - which way do you go?

only the Big Board knows

don't worry - Artie will screw it up - just like he when he screwed it up and told Cowher and co. to take a kid from Miami of Ohio instead :coffee:

teegre
03-04-2013, 03:41 PM
quite right

if DE/OLB Mingo/Jarvis Jones, S Kenny Vacaro and maybe even WR Tavon Austin is there - which way do you go?

only the Big Board knows

Matt Elam is my heart choice, with Tavon Austin being a close second. BUT, Elam would be a reach... as might be Austin.

Vaccaro makes a ton of sense.

Vaccaro & Elam are great, but there are many "good" safeties to be had in R2 (even through R5). There is only one Tavon (although, there are a lot of good WRs).

There are a bunch of OLBs at the top... and then none for a while. Thus, the "smart" pick would be Jones or Mingo... but, honestly, I keep going back to Austin.

If I could get Austin in R1, and trade up in R2 for Elam, I wouldn't care about the rest of the draft.

kan_t
03-05-2013, 03:22 AM
quite right

if DE/OLB Mingo/Jarvis Jones, S Kenny Vacaro and maybe even WR Tavon Austin is there - which way do you go?

only the Big Board knows
Jarvis Jones. Yes he has injury concern. But you take the chance of having the best OLB in the draft.

pete74
03-05-2013, 04:23 AM
Jarvis Jones. Yes he has injury concern. But you take the chance of having the best OLB in the draft.

If Jones is there I would grab him in a second. With that said I wouldbe as surprised as last year's draft when DeCastro fell if Jones is still there at 17.

Hawaii 5-0
03-05-2013, 03:29 PM
It’s Time for the Steelers to Add Playmakers

March 5,2013
by steeldad

http://www.steelcityblitz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Mike-Tomlin-300x275.jpg

This is something I really wanted to wait and write a week or so heading into the draft, but I just need to get it off my chest. Obviously much of what I say here can be severely altered in the next few weeks due to off-season moves and rookie pro days, but that really isn’t going to change my thinking too much.

The Pittsburgh Steelers need playmakers and they can’t wait for the 3rd round of the 2013 NFL Draft to get them.

You have to go back to the 2008 draft to find a time when the Steelers selected a skill-position player in the first round. In 2012, the Steelers did not select a skill player until the 5th round and he’s no longer on the roster. In 2011, they did not select a skill position guy until the 7th round.

The Steelers for years have sunk money into their defense and now with a franchise quarterback in his prime, it’s time to show the offense some love. Look at this breakdown of how much money is contractually spent on defensive players versus offensive for the Steelers. It’s a little mind-numbing, but not surprising.

League-wide, the Steelers rank 4th in terms of amount spent on defense and they rank 29th in the amount spent on offense. If you think in terms of money, the defense takes up $64.9 million while the offense takes up $45.2 million.

I’m not suggesting those should be more on a level of 50/50, but it’s clear that this organization needs to stop wasting the talent of a pro bowl quarterback by surrounding him with second-tier talent.

Since 2008, the Steelers have drafted a defensive tackle, center, defensive end and guard with their first picks. Of that group, only Maurkice Pouncey has ‘panned out’ to this point and while there is still time for Cam Heyward and Ziggy Hood, that time is expiring quickly. Certainly David DeCastro will need another year or two before any judgment can be passed.

The bottom line is that the Steelers need to show Todd Haley and Ben Roethlisberger that they are willing to spend high picks on offense. Yes, the defense still needs to replace aging vets but the way this draft is shaking out, I like the depth of potential playmakers in the early rounds more than ever before.

The Steelers need to look into this direction sooner rather than later.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/its_time_for_the_steelers_to_add_playmakers/13056292

teegre
03-05-2013, 06:01 PM
Play-maker... sounds like Tavon. :wink02:

Really though, as someoine said in a Wallace thread (please, do NOT turn this into a Wallace thread): Wallace did not fit in Haley's quick-strike offense... but... Tavon sure as hell does. Why had I not thought of this fact before!?!

I have been asking for a tall WR (or a TE) for the red-zone (and I still would like one), but Tavon is the PERFECT weapon for the Haley offense.

Blacksburg Zach
03-05-2013, 07:07 PM
Play-maker... sounds like Tavon. :wink02:

Really though, as someoine said in a Wallace thread (please, do NOT turn this into a Wallace thread): Wallace did not fit in Haley's quick-strike offense... but... Tavon sure as hell does. Why had I not thought of this fact before!?!

I have been asking for a tall WR (or a TE) for the red-zone (and I still would like one), but Tavon is the PERFECT weapon for the Haley offense.

What's wrong with another Wallace thread? We don't have nearly enough of those threads on this forum. I think we could also use a few more Ben threads, for we certainly don't have enough of those, either.:chuckle:

Hawaii 5-0
03-05-2013, 07:33 PM
What's wrong with another Wallace thread? We don't have nearly enough of those threads on this forum. I think we could also use a few more Ben threads, for we certainly don't have enough of those, either.:chuckle:

exactly, there is no such thing as too many Mike Wallace threads...:tt02:

teegre
03-05-2013, 10:57 PM
What's wrong with another Wallace thread? We don't have nearly enough of those threads on this forum. I think we could also use a few more Ben threads, for we certainly don't have enough of those, either.:chuckle:

My next thread:
"Mike Wallace says that BB buries his head in the sand, while LeBeau is busy being old."

tony hipchest
03-05-2013, 11:27 PM
Itís Time for the Steelers to Add Playmakers

March 5,2013
by steeldad

The Steelers for years have sunk money into their defense and now with a franchise quarterback in his prime, itís time to show the offense some love. Look at this breakdown of how much money is contractually spent on defensive players versus offensive for the Steelers. Itís a little mind-numbing, but not surprising.

League-wide, the Steelers rank 4th in terms of amount spent on defense and they rank 29th in the amount spent on offense. If you think in terms of money, the defense takes up $64.9 million while the offense takes up $45.2 million.



http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/its_time_for_the_steelers_to_add_playmakers/13056292

pretty crappy editorial if you ask me.

ben is the highest paid player on the team and one of the highest paid qb's in the league. no player who has received one, has ever played out the entirety of their $100,000,000 contract. ben will likely become the 1st player to do so.

its impossible to call players such as miller, brown, wallace, pouncey (all pro bowlers) 2nd tier talent.

the defense is mostly made up of veterans on their 2nd nfl contract. most of the offense are are on their 1st rookie contracts as we field one of the youngest in the league.

this editorial basically says the younger you are the less talented you are which certainly isnt the case.

pouncey, decastro, gilbert, adams are all 1st and 2nd round draft picks. 2nd tier talent is rarely drafted that high.

max starks, while far from the most talented LT in the league has taken a hometown discount and played on the vet minimum after EARNING the franchise tag 2 years in a row which paid him as a top 5 LT in the league.

i call horse pucky... :bs: :poop: