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Steel Glory
02-25-2013, 03:28 PM
So linebacker prospects. I just want to look at a few of them that stood out to me. Feel free to discuss others you liked or were disappointed with.

Dion Jordan:
Absolutely killed it today. I didn't know this but he used to play wide receiver. He has amazing speed and is one of the most fluid players. He can bend very, very well and looked great dropping into coverage. This guy has pretty much pushed himself out of our reach with this performance.

Damontre Moore:
Killed his stock. Ran a slow 40 and only put up 12 repetitions on the bench press. Raises questions about his training. This may push him out of the top 10 if he can't redeem himself. Steelers will look at him but seeing his performance makes him questionable in my eyes. Disappointing.

Corey Lemonier:
Ran fast. Faster than I expected with a 4.60. He also bulked up to 255 pounds. He now has the ideal size and frame to be a 3-4 outside linebacker. Though he was a little stiff, he looked good in the drills and put up 27 reps on the bench, a solid number.

Manti Te'o:
How disappointing. He hasn't helped his stock with his field work, even though he killed his interviews. He only has one speed, which isn't very fast and he only looked okay in the drills. He looked like he was trying to hard and one point even fell after losing his feet under him.

Cornelius Washington:
Surprised here. Washington was coming in as a possible Day 3 flier. However, he was a workout warrior. At 6-4, 255 lbs, he ran the second fastest official time of 4.55 and had 36 reps on the bench to go with a 39 in vert and huge broad jump. All significant of explosiveness. He was tops or near tops in every measurable.

Zavier Gooden:
Finally, this guy destroyed the combine. Fastest linebacker out there. He came in at 6-1, 234 pounds. He also put up 27 reps on the bench press, same as Lemonier, which is ridiculous because he was practically benching his own weight. Gooden played as an OLB at Missouri but is undersized. He was recruited to be a safety but became an OLB instead.... He didn't look as natural in reverse as he did running downhill and because of this and because of his background at safety, I think if he can bulk up a little, he can be an ILB project.

SteelersCanada
02-25-2013, 03:41 PM
Dion Jordan:
Absolutely killed it today. I didn't know this but he used to play wide receiver. He has amazing speed and is one of the most fluid players. He can bend very, very well and looked great dropping into coverage. This guy has pretty much pushed himself out of our reach with this performance.

I've been high on this kind since October. Look, he's going to be a monster. There was a lot of talk on these boards about how he couldn't be a 3-4 player because of his height, weight and how he was an overrated 4-3 DE and wouldn't fit as a 3-4 OLB. Now, the ignorance in that last statement is astounding but I'd be willing to bet they're eating their words - he absolutely did kill it today. He looked like a stud.

The guy projects to me like Aldon Smith. He's fast and can use his speed and acceleration to get around Tackles in the NFL. I'm not going to judge him by his 40 time as others are, but it's great to know he had an excellent vertical (swat down passes a la Watt) and really opened eyes during the drills. This is the kind of player I wouldn't mind us trading up to get. Now, all that being said, we might not have to trade up far. With the way the offensive line looked and pressing need for DTs, I feel as if Jordan is going to be pushed back. The only team that would take a run at him in the first 10 are the Jets, and I feel like Rex is going to take Ansah there as a project he can work with. Guys like Jones, Jordan, Mingo and Moore are all going to be pushed back as teams reach for Quarterbacks and LTs in this draft.

I'd give up a fourth and a fifth to trade with someone like the Panthers at 14. In all likelihood, Sheldon Richardson will be on the board at 17 so the Panthers would be keen on trading down, picking up a couple extra picks and then taking Richardson to shore up their DLine. If we're serious about shoring up our pass rush, Jordan is the place to start. Let Butler work with him and improve his technique and he'll be a force on that right side opposite Woodley.

Steel Glory
02-25-2013, 03:52 PM
I've been high on this kind since October. Look, he's going to be a monster. There was a lot of talk on these boards about how he couldn't be a 3-4 player because of his height, weight and how he was an overrated 4-3 DE and wouldn't fit as a 3-4 OLB. Now, the ignorance in that last statement is astounding but I'd be willing to bet they're eating their words - he absolutely did kill it today. He looked like a stud.

The guy projects to me like Aldon Smith. He's fast and can use his speed and acceleration to get around Tackles in the NFL. I'm not going to judge him by his 40 time as others are, but it's great to know he had an excellent vertical (swat down passes a la Watt) and really opened eyes during the drills. This is the kind of player I wouldn't mind us trading up to get. Now, all that being said, we might not have to trade up far. With the way the offensive line looked and pressing need for DTs, I feel as if Jordan is going to be pushed back. The only team that would take a run at him in the first 10 are the Jets, and I feel like Rex is going to take Ansah there as a project he can work with. Guys like Jones, Jordan, Mingo and Moore are all going to be pushed back as teams reach for Quarterbacks and LTs in this draft.

I'd give up a fourth and a fifth to trade with someone like the Panthers at 14. In all likelihood, Sheldon Richardson will be on the board at 17 so the Panthers would be keen on trading down, picking up a couple extra picks and then taking Richardson to shore up their DLine. If we're serious about shoring up our pass rush, Jordan is the place to start. Let Butler work with him and improve his technique and he'll be a force on that right side opposite Woodley.

I have also liked Jordan. He has the speed rush and is the same body type as Aldon Smith. The only difference? Jordan can cover. But, I think you are wrong about only the Jets looking at him. Cleveland is switching to a 3-4 as well and he can still play at the 4-3 end position because he can add weight. If I'm Cleveland, I think really hard about him at number 6. And right now he is my top mock to them. I had Jarvis Jones and Star Lotuleilei, but both have medical red flags.

SteelersCanada
02-25-2013, 04:02 PM
I have also liked Jordan. He has the speed rush and is the same body type as Aldon Smith. The only difference? Jordan can cover. But, I think you are wrong about only the Jets looking at him. Cleveland is switching to a 3-4 as well and he can still play at the 4-3 end position because he can add weight. If I'm Cleveland, I think really hard about him at number 6. And right now he is my top mock to them. I had Jarvis Jones and Star Lotuleilei, but both have medical red flags.

You're giving too much credit to Cleveland. This is the same organization that drafted a 28 year old rookie Quarterback and thought it was a great idea. Granted, a different staff is on board now, but I wouldn't get my hopes up if I'm Cleveland. They're in the business of making terrible decisions.

I could definitely see them taking a look, but Jordan isn't worth a top 6 pick in my opinion. I love the kid, but he isn't worth that high of a selection. They need help on offense and, same with the Jets, might have to take a long look at Ezekiel Ansah. If I'm Cleveland, though, I'm taking Jarvis Jones. That guy is a beast, spinal issues aside. They might also look at someone like Floyd to anchor their DLine.

Steel Glory
02-25-2013, 04:43 PM
You're giving too much credit to Cleveland. This is the same organization that drafted a 28 year old rookie Quarterback and thought it was a great idea. Granted, a different staff is on board now, but I wouldn't get my hopes up if I'm Cleveland. They're in the business of making terrible decisions.

I could definitely see them taking a look, but Jordan isn't worth a top 6 pick in my opinion. I love the kid, but he isn't worth that high of a selection. They need help on offense and, same with the Jets, might have to take a long look at Ezekiel Ansah. If I'm Cleveland, though, I'm taking Jarvis Jones. That guy is a beast, spinal issues aside. They might also look at someone like Floyd to anchor their DLine.

Yeah I guess haha. Cleveland is pretty terrible, with Michael Lombardi being especially terrible with his draft record. But Floyd is a 4-3 guy and with Philadelphia's release of Cullen Jenkins, he could be going there if the Raiders don't take him. Plus I want to give them a little bit of credit; their new owner was a partial owner of the Steelers

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-25-2013, 08:09 PM
Jordan will likely be gone when we draft. I've been pimping Lemonier to the Steelers in the second round for a while now and think he still grades out as early to mid of round 2.

I hate the idea of another year of Larry Foote, but could handle either Vacarro or Elam in round 1 and Lemonier in round 2

kan_t
02-25-2013, 08:14 PM
I'm high on Jordan from day 1. But I wouldn't trade up for him. One or two of the top pass rushers will drop.

SteelersCanada
02-25-2013, 08:36 PM
Damontre Moore has a chance of falling to 17 now too. I love all the 'experts' now are mocking all these pass rushers in the top 15 when they did the exact same thing last year and a lot of them fell. It's like they don't learn from their mistakes. I guess that's why they're talking heads.

kan_t
02-25-2013, 09:30 PM
Besides Jordan, pre-combine mid-first round projection like Mingo and Ansah also have excellent combine performance. Someone has to drop at 17. There is no reason for trading up in this year draft.

teegre
02-26-2013, 01:03 AM
Jordan will likely be gone when we draft. I've been pimping Lemonier to the Steelers in the second round for a while now and think he still grades out as early to mid of round 2.

I hate the idea of another year of Larry Foote, but could handle either Vacarro or Elam in round 1 and Lemonier in round 2

Elam or Vaccro... YES.

I was hoping Lemonier would drop to the Steelers in R3. Alas, if they're gonna take him, it will now likely have to be in R2.

Speaking of R3, there are so many good R3 players that I like: Ryan Swope, Leon McFadden, Corey Lemonier, Gavin Escobar... Thus, maybe the Steelers trade down from 17, still snag Elam, while picking up a extra R3 pick (or two) in the process.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
02-26-2013, 01:49 AM
Elam or Vaccro... YES.

I was hoping Lemonier would drop to the Steelers in R3. Alas, if they're gonna take him, it will now likely have to be in R2.

Speaking of R3, there are so many good R3 players that I like: Ryan Swope, Leon McFadden, Corey Lemonier, Gavin Escobar... Thus, maybe the Steelers trade down from 17, still snag Elam, while picking up a extra R3 pick (or two) in the process.

I know you love elam but say we get vaccaro how would you feel about shamarko thomas plays the same way as elam and will go in round 5 and later. He will impress at the combine.

teegre
02-26-2013, 07:39 AM
I know you love elam but say we get vaccaro how would you feel about shamarko thomas plays the same way as elam and will go in round 5 and later. He will impress at the combine.

How is he is pass coverage? I was saying elsewhere that what I like about Elam (& Swearinger) is that they bring it... but also can cover the pass very well.

I'd be very happy with Vaccaro. How do I explain this... Ah, okay. Not that either of these young safeties is at this level, but Elam versus Vaccaro is akin to Polamslu versus Reed: personal preference (both are HOF-level). I personally like Elam, but I'm smart enough to know that Vaccaro is arguably as good (both are amazing).

The guy, besides Elam, who I think is a monster tackler is Swearinger. I've seen him mocked everywhere from late R1 to R5. The dude can hit like a Mack truck... but, he can also cover the pass (he has played some CB).

Here are my tiered rankings of those three, in levels of "kid happy":

Swearinger only: ice cream cone

Elam or Vaccaro only: sundae

Elam/Vaccaro AND some other late-round S: sundae w/ extra toppings

Elam/Vaccaro AND Swearinger: sundae w/ extra toppings at Disneyland, while wearing an Batman costume & riding a tricked-out bike from ride-to-ride.

Steel Glory
02-26-2013, 10:28 AM
I would love Swearinger. I think though he would probably have to go in the 2nd or 3rd round. And yeah I've also seen him everywhere from rounds 1-5. Some people love him and think he's one of the top 3 safeties, others think he is just a head hunter and won't do well.

I know he has played cornerback for South Carolina when they were in a pinch and moved back to safety afterwards and played great before, during and after the switch. I think he is the number 3 safety behind Elam, Vacarro, with Cyprien being 4th and with Reid being 5th. He needs to wrap up though. If he launches in the NFL he can expect a bunch of fines. His game reminds me of Raheim Moore, with the Denver Broncos.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
02-26-2013, 11:03 AM
How is he is pass coverage? I was saying elsewhere that what I like about Elam (& Swearinger) is that they bring it... but also can cover the pass very well.

I'd be very happy with Vaccaro. How do I explain this... Ah, okay. Not that either of these young safeties is at this level, but Elam versus Vaccaro is akin to Polamslu versus Reed: personal preference (both are HOF-level). I personally like Elam, but I'm smart enough to know that Vaccaro is arguably as good (both are amazing).

The guy, besides Elam, who I think is a monster tackler is Swearinger. I've seen him mocked everywhere from late R1 to R5. The dude can hit like a Mack truck... but, he can also cover the pass (he has played some CB).

Here are my tiered rankings of those three, in levels of "kid happy":

Swearinger only: ice cream cone

Elam or Vaccaro only: sundae

Elam/Vaccaro AND some other late-round S: sundae w/ extra toppings

Elam/Vaccaro AND Swearinger: sundae w/ extra toppings at Disneyland, while wearing an Batman costume & riding a tricked-out bike from ride-to-ride.

My Disneyland
Vaccaro/swearinger

Elam/Phillp Thomas

teegre
02-26-2013, 12:14 PM
My Disneyland
Vaccaro/swearinger

Elam/Phillp Thomas

Vaccaro AND Elam... oh man!!!

That would be like a OWNING Baskin-Robbins & Disneyland... while wearing an Batman costume.

Steel Glory
02-26-2013, 12:17 PM
Vaccaro AND Elam... oh man!!!

That would be like a OWNING Baskin-Robbins & Disneyland... while wearing an Batman costume.

With catwoman there with you.

tony hipchest
02-26-2013, 04:43 PM
Phil Savage, Executive Director of the Senior Bowl, gives his breakdowns and analysis of LB's combine results-

http://seniorbowl.com/article.asp?articleID=529

COMBINE REVIEW: Monday -- LB

Senior Bowl 2013 Combine Workout Evaluations

*Senior Bowl participant



Groups 7-8/DL and Group 9/Linebackers encompass the entire Front Seven. Executive Director Phil Savage separates the prospects further by breaking them down accordingly:



DL = DT or DE or OLB

LB = ILB or OLB or DE



Because there is so much variation between 3-4 and 4-3 systems, the DL can generally be classified as "inside" DT's or "outside" DE's, while the LB's are categorized as "box/off-the-line" or "edge/on-the-line" linebackers. These distinctions are very important and difficult to master, especially for the organizations that are changing schemes in the off-season after scouting for a different defense during the Fall.



GROUP 9/LINEBACKERS

Missed Workout with Medical Exclusion (unless noted):

-Kiko Alonso/Oregon (no 40, drills only)

*Arthur Brown/Kansas State

-Jelani Jenkins/Florida (no 40, drills only)

*Nico Johnson/Alabama

-Jarvis Jones/Georgia

-Jake Knott/Iowa State

-Mike Mauti/Penn State

-Lerentree McCray/Florida

-Etienne Sabino/Ohio State (pulled 1st 40, no drills)

-Mike Taylor/Wisconsin



Olympic Events/Podium Awards:

40-Yard Dash/Inside Linebackers

Gold- *Zaviar Gooden/Missouri 4.47

Silver- Jonathan Bostic/Florida 4.61

Bronze-*Sio Moore/UConn 4.65



40-Yard Dash/Outside Linebackers

Gold- *Trevardo Williams/UConn 4.57

Silver- Barkevious Mingo/LSU 4.58

t-Bronze-Dion Jordan/Oregon 4.60

Corey Lemonier/Auburn 4.60



Vertical Jump/Inside Linebackers

Gold- *Sio Moore/UConn 38.0"

Silver- John Lotulelei/UNLV 35.5"

Bronze-Zaviar Gooden/Missouri 34.0"



Vertical Jump/Outside Linebackers

Gold- *Jamie Collins/Southern Miss 41.5"

Silver- *Trevardo Williams/UConn 38.0"

t-Bronze-Barkevious Mingo/LSU 37.0"

Ty Powell/Harding U. 37.0"



Bench Press/Inside Linebackers

Gold- *Sio Moore/UConn 29 reps

Silver- Mike Mauti/Penn State 28 reps

t-Bronze-*Zaviar Gooden/Missouri 27 reps

Jelani Jenkins/Florida 27 reps



Bench Press/Outside Linebackers

Gold- *Trevardo Williams/UConn 30 reps

Silver- *Ty Powell/Harding U. 28 reps

Bronze-Nate Williams/Ohio State 24 reps



Body Beautiful Award:

ILB- *Zaviar Gooden/Missouri 6014/234/32 1-4" arm/10" hand

OLB- Dion Jordan/Oregon 6062/248/33 7-8" arm/10" hand



Forget the 40/Trust the Tape:

ILB- Manti Te'o/Notre Dame 4.82

Kevin Minter/LSU 4.81

OLB- None



Acknowledge the 40/Better Check the Tape:

ILB- *Zaviar Gooden/Missouri 4.47

OLB- *Jamie Collins/So.Miss 4.64



"Best in Show":

INSIDE LINEBACKERS

1. *Zaviar Gooden/Missouri – Expected to test well, Zaviar exceeded

even the most optimistic numbers. He ran 4.47 and recorded times of 6.71 in the 3-Cone, 4.18 in the short shuttle and 11.28 in the 60-yard shuttle, plus, he benched 27 times and vertical jumped 34.0". He is sudden, has straight-line acceleration and good ball skills. He is an ideal linebacker candidate for defending the modern era "space" and spread offenses. Zaviar is a true Will in the 4-3 where he can get protection and chase the football without being required to have perfect instincts.



2. *Sio Moore/UConn – Sio has taken off since arriving at the

East-West Shrine, playing in the Senior Bowl and now performing well at the Combine. He ran 4.65, benched 29 times and jumped 38" inches before working out with efficiency on the field. Can fit either scheme, he also has some pass rush/blitz ability.



3. Jonathan Bostic/Florida – Jonathan had a real positive day after

missing the Senior Bowl with a hamstring strain. He ran 4.61, then a 6.99 in the 3-Cone and a 4.24 in the short shuttle. He has the athletic skills to play Will with the size to hold up as a Mike. Jack-of-all-trades type that can help on special teams, too.



4. Alec Ogletree/Georgia – This former high school safety is a fluid

athlete and also fits best as a Will in the 4-3. He tested well, but not spectacularly like many said he would. He is rangy, covers ground and has ball skills. Every team has to make a decision on his character, just in case he is on the board as the draft unfolds.



5. *Kevin Reddick/North Carolina – At times, Kevin looks one-speed on tape

without much space ability. Today, he ran 4.72, moved through the drills well and did not look out of place athletically. He actually ran better than the two top ILB's, Minter and Te'o.



Others of Note:

-Kiko Alonso/Oregon – Did not run, but went through position

work showing his effort and ball skills.



-Kevin Minter/LSU – Measured 5116/246 and ran 4.81, he

was better in the on-field drills, but never showed supreme burst and quickness.



-Manti Te'o/Notre Dame – All eyes were on Manti as he ran 4.82. He

was fluid in the drill work and caught the ball well, but does not have much explosion for a potential 1st rounder.



OUTSIDE LINEBACKERS

1. Barkevious Mingo/LSU – Barkevious had a stellar workout as

expected. No one questions his athletic ability and speed, but his skill set has not resulted in big-time production. A move to the 3-4 will help him because he can get matched up against tight ends and backs on occasion. Needs to be more physical at the point-of-attack, however, he is an ideal candidate for a team looking to add a right-side 3-4 OLB. He ran 4.58, jumped 37" and moves like a safety.



2. Dion Jordan/Oregon – Dion also had a supremely impressive

workout as a member of the DL group. He ran 4.60 at 6062/248, jumped 32.5" in the vertical and 10' even in the broad. Some are saying that he will gain 15-20lbs and become a 4-3 DE. The belief here is that he converts to 3-4 OLB and then becomes a Sub rusher more than a pass defender (like he was used at Oregon). An extremely gifted athlete, going to Philadelphia's new 3-4 as a long, athletic pass rusher at #4 may not be out of the question. In some ways, he brings Kalimba Edwards/South Carolina to mind, a very long-limbed prospect who could play as a LB or DE and did so at the NFL level.



3. *Jamie Collins/Southern Miss – Jamie ran 4.64 and recorded incredible

vertical and broad jumps of 41.5" and 11'7", respectively. More OLB than DE, he measured 6034/250. His production is better on the stat sheet than on the tapes, but with this kind of raw talent, someone is going to try and teach him how to play pro football. Sat out most of the week at the Senior Bowl with an injury.



4. *Ty Powell/Harding U. – Ty was a late add to the Senior Bowl, but

he has been on the way up ever since. He has explosiveness in his body as evidenced by his 37" vertical and 10'2" broad, plus his 4.64 in the 40. He worked with the DL, but there is no doubt here that he is a future

3-4 OLB. NFL scouts will be map-questing Searcy, AR on March 5.



Projected 1st Round Selections:

-Jarvis Jones/Georgia

-Dion Jordan/Oregon

-Barkevious Mingo/LSU

-Alec Ogletree/Georgia



Possible 1st Round Picks:

-Manti Te'o/Notre Dame

PhantomJB93
02-26-2013, 06:34 PM
I'd be happy with any of Jones, Jordan, Ansah, Werner, Te'o, or Ogletree. I'd be really disappointed with Damontre Moore or Barkevious Mingo. I just really hope one of the aforementioned guys falls because I'm pretty sure Patterson, Warmack, and Vaccaro will all be gone when we pick too.

Steel Glory
02-26-2013, 11:13 PM
I'd be happy with any of Jones, Jordan, Ansah, Werner, Te'o, or Ogletree. I'd be really disappointed with Damontre Moore or Barkevious Mingo. I just really hope one of the aforementioned guys falls because I'm pretty sure Patterson, Warmack, and Vaccaro will all be gone when we pick too.

Te'o in the second. But Werner isn't a guy I see being picked by us. He's a 4-3 end. And I don't think the are looking at Ogletree. He had drug problems in school and then had a DUI right before the combine.

kan_t
02-27-2013, 01:53 AM
I'd be happy with any of Jones, Jordan, Ansah, Werner, Te'o, or Ogletree. I'd be really disappointed with Damontre Moore or Barkevious Mingo. I just really hope one of the aforementioned guys falls because I'm pretty sure Patterson, Warmack, and Vaccaro will all be gone when we pick too.
I don't understand the Mingo disappointment. He had a very good combine.

teegre
02-27-2013, 08:54 AM
With catwoman there with you.

Ha, ha, ha... well played.

Steel Glory
03-03-2013, 07:38 PM
I don't understand the Mingo disappointment. He had a very good combine.

I don't think anyone is worried about his athletic ability, but he didn't perform on the field. During the interviews he admitted to taking plays off and not playing his fullest. That's what turns people off about him. I believe Sam Montgomery was the same.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-14-2013, 06:03 PM
Lemonier did position drills led by Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker coach Keith Butler.

http://blogs.nfl.com/category/pro-days/page/3/

PhantomJB93
03-14-2013, 08:03 PM
I don't think anyone is worried about his athletic ability, but he didn't perform on the field. During the interviews he admitted to taking plays off and not playing his fullest. That's what turns people off about him. I believe Sam Montgomery was the same.

This. Mingo never even had more than 8 sacks in a given season, and even that was only once in 2011, this past year he only had 4.5 and his freshman year isn't even worth talking about. 8 sacks doesn't usually buy you a top 20 draft selection, especially considering he was a DE and all he had to do was pass-rush. Jarvis Jones had as many sacks this year as Mingo did in 3, and Jarvis was also dropping into coverage on plays. Mingo has first round talent but seems like someone who is lazy to me. We complain enough about Woodley and Mingo's work ethic seems even worse given his stats and interviews.

Maybe if we drafted him we'd whip him into a harder worker but right now I'm not big on his character.