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cowherpower
02-27-2013, 06:16 PM
This practice (which all teams do) of restructuring contracts is starting to get me concerned. It's like what is happening with the federal deficit. We are prolonging the inevitable...pushing the can down the road. It would make sense if we were extremely close to getting back to a Superbowl but since we are not, it seems kinda desperate.

All teams do it but we are going to be in cap hell for the next few years. Instead of dropping dead weight like they should they are pretending that keeping this crew together is paramount to success when in fact we are quite old and in need of major infusion of young talent. Heath, Troy, Ben, Harrison, Ike are all getting older and injury prone and Worilds, Hood, Heyward, Lewis, Brown have not become the 'next batch' of homegrown talent we needed to take over. Instead of biting the bullet and reloading they are holding on to these guys out of sheer desperation.

I think it would make sense if they were doing all these moves to sign someone special, but I have a feeling it's for Lewis, a marginal, maybe average-above average corner. Why is it so bad to just drop the veterans, take the hit, let the younger players play, draft well, and put themselves in a position to make another run in a couple of years. You have a supposed franchise QB, youngish O Line, young receivers...fill in the gaps for a year on D. draft defensive difference makers in next two drafts and viola!!

I am really worried about our sustainability over next 5 years and this off season so far.

harrison'samonster
02-27-2013, 06:20 PM
it is a little concerning

STEELMANIAK
02-27-2013, 08:19 PM
I agree 100%.

Our team needs to evolve instead of trying to cling onto every last ounce of football these old guys have and wasting the teams salary cap in the process.

I hate to say it but, especially Troy. He is one of the top paid guys are our team and has been a non-contributor the last 3 seasons. He's plagued with injuries and also hasn't stepped up into the leadership role like he should have.

Lebeau is another one. I think he has a lot do with the reason why these young guys haven't had the chance to shine yet. Our defense is to "complex" is a poor excuse for these guys not to be starting. It can't be that complicated because I am pretty sure there our several teams around the league injecting rookies into their starting lineup that have little issues with the learning curve.

teegre
02-27-2013, 09:05 PM
I was talking about this in another thread.

If the cap had gone up as to the original plan, the Steelers would have been right at the cap the past two seasons. The freeze messed up their "checkbook" so to speak. The silver lining is that it has forced them to make cuts. While some of those cuts have been good, others have & will be very tough (Ward).

If they can weather this current storm, they should once again be fine in two seasons (when the cap goes back up).

SteelersCanada
02-27-2013, 09:10 PM
While I don't like it, I don't agree that we're 'not close to another Super Bowl'. I think you're buying too much into the hype of these other teams. Look at what happened to Houston, New England, San Fran, etc. this year. All these 'up and coming now elite' teams lost to teams they really had no business losing to. That shows holes amongst other things, but I digress.

I don't like restructuring either, but I hope it's because they're just getting into cap compliance by March 12th. Then, after June 1st, the true cuts will come. Harrison, Keisel, Troy, Colon amongst others will be cut to save maximum cap space. It's what I hope they're doing and it's what makes the most sense. Get into cap compliance now and then start the real cap shedding after June 1st. We could potentially be around 20 - 25 million under the cap if the correct cuts are made after that magical date - June 1st.

Bane
02-27-2013, 09:26 PM
While I don't like it, I don't agree that we're 'not close to another Super Bowl'. I think you're buying too much into the hype of these other teams. Look at what happened to Houston, New England, San Fran, etc. this year. All these 'up and coming now elite' teams lost to teams they really had no business losing to. That shows holes amongst other things, but I digress.

I don't like restructuring either, but I hope it's because they're just getting into cap compliance by March 12th. Then, after June 1st, the true cuts will come. Harrison, Keisel, Troy, Colon amongst others will be cut to save maximum cap space. It's what I hope they're doing and it's what makes the most sense. Get into cap compliance now and then start the real cap shedding after June 1st. We could potentially be around 20 - 25 million under the cap if the correct cuts are made after that magical date - June 1st.

I think Troy, Kiesel, and Ike will be kept for at least this year, but Colon, Harrison, Starks, and Foster may be canned. Troy, when not injured, proved that he was far too destructive to not be given another chance.

I will probably cry IRL if they let Troy go. I know he's old, and his mane is graying, but still.

SteelersCanada
02-27-2013, 09:28 PM
I think Troy, Kiesel, and Ike will be kept for at least this year, but Colon, Harrison, Starks, and Foster may be canned. Troy, when not injured, proved that he was far too destructive to not be given another chance.

I will probably cry IRL if they let Troy go. I know he's old, and his mane is graying, but still.

I hear ya, but he's not worth 10 million dollars. Not even close.

Bane
02-27-2013, 09:47 PM
I hear ya, but he's not worth 10 million dollars. Not even close.

That, I agree with. Perhaps he'd be willing to take a pay cut to finish out his career, if this is his last year. I doubt it, but who knows?

cowherpower
02-27-2013, 10:09 PM
While I don't like it, I don't agree that we're 'not close to another Super Bowl'. I think you're buying too much into the hype of these other teams. Look at what happened to Houston, New England, San Fran, etc. this year. All these 'up and coming now elite' teams lost to teams they really had no business losing to. That shows holes amongst other things, but I digress.

I don't like restructuring either, but I hope it's because they're just getting into cap compliance by March 12th. Then, after June 1st, the true cuts will come. Harrison, Keisel, Troy, Colon amongst others will be cut to save maximum cap space. It's what I hope they're doing and it's what makes the most sense. Get into cap compliance now and then start the real cap shedding after June 1st. We could potentially be around 20 - 25 million under the cap if the correct cuts are made after that magical date - June 1st.

Well said, I hope you right but I remember thinking the same thing for the last few years and it never seems to happen on the scale necessary.

austinfrench76
02-27-2013, 11:20 PM
Agree. It's just creating more cap hell!!! It's probably just time to cut some bait and take our lumps. Sucks but reality.

wwhickok
02-28-2013, 04:39 AM
I dont agree that we're not close to another SB but I would agree thay with every wasted draft pick and every veteran who is just eating up Cap Space, we are getting further away.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
02-28-2013, 09:23 AM
Calming The Steelers 2014 Salary Cap Fears Following The Recent Contract Restructures
Thursday, February 28th, 2013 at 8:39 am by Dave Bryan

The Pittsburgh Steelers are not even through with their restructures this offseason and already there is concern about the damage that they are doing to 2014 and beyond by pushing forward more money. Fans go through this concern every year because most just don't understand the real numbers and what lies ahead. Thank God Omar Khan does.

Here is the 2014 big picture for you.

The Steelers currently have 32 players under contract for 2014. Assuming the forthcoming restructures of quarterback Ben Roethlisberger and linebacker LaMarr Woodley go as planned, the team will have $122,517,760 committed to the 2014 cap with those 32 players.

Hopefully you have not kicked the chair out from beneath at this point.

The top 10 cap commitments in 2014, after the Roethlisberger and Woodley restructures are completed this week, will total out somewhere around $104,654,252, which is 85% of the $122,517,760 total. Those 10 players, in order, are Roethlisberger, Woodley, Lawrence Timmons, Troy Polamalu, Ike Taylor, James Harrison, Antonio Brown, Heath Miller, Willie Colon and Maurkice Pouncey.

There is still a chance that Harrison and Colon could be released this offseason, but if they're not, it is hard seeing both being on the roster in 2014. If both are ultimately released next offseason, instead of this offseason, it will free up $10.925 million worth of cap space in 2014 for starters.

Taylor will be entering the final year of his contract in 2014. Depending on his play in 2013, he could be a candidate to have his base salary of $7 million cut in half or be released outright. This is especially true should the Steelers wind up re-signing unrestricted free agent cornerback Keenan Lewis this offseason. Cutting Taylor outright next offseason, should that be the end result, would save $7 million cap space in 2014. Should he take a pay cut instead, the amount of the cut will be cap money saved.

Polamalu is an enigma and his 2014 status depends entirely on his play in 2013. Should he play in at least 14 games, and do so at an All-Pro level, his $8.25 million base salary in 2014 will be justified. We will leave that one alone for now, but 2014 will be the final year of his current contract just so you know.

Both Roethlisberger and Pouncey will be prime candidates to have their contracts extended next offseason, which in turn will lower their 2014 cap hits. How much? That is entirely too hard to speculate right now, but the process will produce cap savings in 2014.

Timmons and Brown will once again be prime candidates to have their contracts restructured next offseason, assuming of course both are healthy and productive. Even Woodley, assuming he has a bounce back season in 2013, could be a candidate for yet another restructure. All three will be fallback options, and I am in no way guaranteeing that all three will be restructured again. Just keep it in the back of your head as an option.

Miller, depending on how his knee recovers in 2013, could also be in line for a short extension, which in turn would lower his 2014 cap number.

As you can see, I have addressed all 10 players currently in the top 10 for 2014 with only three of them, at most, being restructured next offseason. There is quite a bit of cap savings to be had within those 10 players through the various means I laid out.

So what about the new draft class this year, and what about players such as Lewis, who might be re-signed this offseason? We still have to fill out a Rule of 51 for next offseason, right?

Correct.

Lewis if re-signed, will have a very manageable cap hit in 2013 and in 2014 I anticipate he will have a base salary and a roster bonus that can easily be rolled into a signing bonus via a restructure. If they need to. The Steelers just did that this offseason with Brown in the second year of his new contract so you should expect it with Lewis next offseason. They might not have to do it, but consider yourself warned.

The 2013 draft class, what remains of them of them next offseason, should only require roughly $5.5 million in cap space in their second season. The 2014 draft class will have a rookie pool in the neighborhood of $5.5 million, but they will be displacing the bottom end of the Rule of 51. The bottom of the roster at this time next year will consist of more futures players, just as it does this year. Always remember displacement.

Are there any candidates for the franchise tag next offseason? Not really, no, but if not extended this offseason, linebacker Jason Worilds would be the only one that might remotely warrant consideration. That, however, depends entirely on what happens on the field in 2013. Should he and Ziggy Hood be extended prior to the start of the 2013 season, both of their second year cap hits in 2014 should be more than manageable.

Restricted free agents next offseason? Outside of running back Baron Batch and cornerback DeMarcus Van Dyke, assuming both stick, there shouldn't be many, if any. There could be a few exclusive rights free agents, however, depending on who makes the 2013 roster. Those players are cheap to retain.

To recap. 85% of the total cap commitment in 2014 is comprised of 10 players. At this time next offseason it will be a much lower percentage. The situation is not as bad as many would have you believe. Like every offseason there could be a termination or two and a few restructures are almost certain to happen. Extending the contracts of both Roethlisberger and Pouncey will alleviate more of the cap strain and a few more restructures will take care of the rest.

So will the Steelers be over the cap in February of 2014? Yes, more than likely, but once again it will be very fixable with very limited carnage. This is the life of a team in the NFL that has a franchise

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/02/steelers-2014-salary-cap-fears-contract-restructures/

Bane
02-28-2013, 10:31 AM
I still hope they'll trade Harrison instead of release him. Especially if they're gonna draft an OLB. Someone will give up something big for him.

wwhickok
02-28-2013, 10:48 AM
I still hope they'll trade Harrison instead of release him. Especially if they're gonna draft an OLB. Someone will give up something big for him.

Its what I would do.

steelfury02
02-28-2013, 11:34 AM
something big for Harrison? I wouldn't count on that. I would count MAYBE a 3rd rounder - but with the type of WRs/RBs you can get in the 3rd round, why give up that potential for an aging LB that MIGHT be destructive?

I think a 5th is probably more of what someone would get for him

67 calsteel
02-28-2013, 11:48 AM
nobody is going to trade for him.Why because no one will pay him that much when they could wait til he gets cut and get him at half the cost.

ebsteelers
02-28-2013, 12:31 PM
james harrison probably isnt worth a tenth round pick right now..


steeler fever gives me the 0-16 vibing coming for the next decade

Terminator
02-28-2013, 12:47 PM
Lamarr Woodley being the 2nd highest paid player on our team is a travesty.

livingthrudying
02-28-2013, 01:28 PM
Lebeau is another one. I think he has a lot do with the reason why these young guys haven't had the chance to shine yet. Our defense is to "complex" is a poor excuse for these guys not to be starting. It can't be that complicated because I am pretty sure there our several teams around the league injecting rookies into their starting lineup that have little issues with the learning curve.


I Live in dallas and about the only thing Jerry jones has ever said that i agree with relates to this. Rob Ryan was fired and he said the defense was too complex. That Rob was enamored with wanting to create elaborate schemes rather than having fundamentally sound defense. Too many looks and deceptions confused the defensive players more than the other teams offense.

I love D Lebeau don't get me wrong he is a genius to an extent. But when your overall scheme is so complicated that you have to keep players in that know "your"defense taht arent as good of players anymore vs younger players that have play making ability then you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. Not to mention when a NFL players typical career is about 10 years (average). Wasting 3 years sitting on the bench learning a defense thats just absurd to waste 30% of anyones career is crazy.

Lebeau also has relied on being to fancy because of Troy's ability and doesnt seem to have any plan in place for when Troy is gone (he already is as he will never be the player he was before).

Bane
02-28-2013, 01:53 PM
something big for Harrison? I wouldn't count on that. I would count MAYBE a 3rd rounder - but with the type of WRs/RBs you can get in the 3rd round, why give up that potential for an aging LB that MIGHT be destructive?

I think a 5th is probably more of what someone would get for him

I'm not saying he's worth something big, just that there are teams out there who would give us more than his value.

Long story short, I'd rather we get value for him while we still can. Because I think a team in need with a goofy GM will give us more than he's worth. Whether that's a third or a fourth, I don't care. I would simply rather get something than cut him.

SteelersCanada
02-28-2013, 01:56 PM
something big for Harrison? I wouldn't count on that. I would count MAYBE a 3rd rounder - but with the type of WRs/RBs you can get in the 3rd round, why give up that potential for an aging LB that MIGHT be destructive?

I think a 5th is probably more of what someone would get for him

Raiders gave up multiple first and second round picks for Carson Palmer. I guarantee we could garner at least a high second round pick from a team like the Jets for Polamalu and Harrison.

Stupid organizations do stupid things and we should take advantage of that.

ebsteelers
02-28-2013, 02:13 PM
Raiders gave up multiple first and second round picks for Carson Palmer. I guarantee we could garner at least a high second round pick from a team like the Jets for Polamalu and Harrison. Stupid organizations do stupid things and we should take advantage of that.

maybe in madden..

highly doubt it would work with the cap with one player, let alone 2 players for a 2nd round pick..

and your guaranteeing it based of ???

palmer was like 30 when the raiders traded for him,

troy and harrison both over that..so not a pray of trading 2 injuried over priced guys for a 2nd round pick...

SteelersCanada
02-28-2013, 02:29 PM
maybe in madden..

highly doubt it would work with the cap with one player, let alone 2 players for a 2nd round pick..

and your guaranteeing it based of ???

palmer was like 30 when the raiders traded for him,

troy and harrison both over that..so not a pray of trading 2 injuried over priced guys for a 2nd round pick...

What am I guaranteeing based off of? Both of those guys are former DPOY. Say what you will, there's a market for guys like that. Just because they were unproductive for us doesn't mean they will be for another team. You're in the mindset of 'well, who would want them? they're too old' but aren't looking at it from the other perspective - Harrison still got 6 sacks at 35 and Polamalu was leading in Pro Bowl votes until he was taken off the ballot due to injury.

It doesn't matter how old they are, there is a market for these guys if they became available. Of course, a renegotiation of contracts would have to take place for a team that might not be willing to take on a 20 million dollar cap hit for these two, but if the price was right for the both of them, a deal would get done.

Maybe the Jets was a bad example as they're in worse cap shape than we are, but you get the point. A team that has some cash to spend that is willing to negotiate a contract with these two would do it. You don't think the Patriots would be interested in acquiring Troy? Or the Niners - who have 15 picks - would be interested in letting Goldson walk and grabbing Polamalu in return for a second round pick?

Carson Palmer was a guy that never really accomplished anything in his career and was traded for multiple first and second round picks. Troy is a former DPOY and arguably the best Safety in the league when he's healthy. I don't see the argument of 'well, there's no market for him' when there's obviously going to be interest for someone like that. It'd be silly to suggest otherwise.

cowherpower
02-28-2013, 05:20 PM
Calming The Steelers 2014 Salary Cap Fears Following The Recent Contract Restructures
Thursday, February 28th, 2013 at 8:39 am by Dave Bryan

The Pittsburgh Steelers are not even through with their restructures this offseason and already there is concern about the damage that they are doing to 2014 and beyond by pushing forward more money. Fans go through this concern every year because most just don't understand the real numbers and what lies ahead. Thank God Omar Khan does.

Here is the 2014 big picture for you.

The Steelers currently have 32 players under contract for 2014. Assuming the forthcoming restructures of quarterback Ben Roethlisberger and linebacker LaMarr Woodley go as planned, the team will have $122,517,760 committed to the 2014 cap with those 32 players.

Hopefully you have not kicked the chair out from beneath at this point.

The top 10 cap commitments in 2014, after the Roethlisberger and Woodley restructures are completed this week, will total out somewhere around $104,654,252, which is 85% of the $122,517,760 total. Those 10 players, in order, are Roethlisberger, Woodley, Lawrence Timmons, Troy Polamalu, Ike Taylor, James Harrison, Antonio Brown, Heath Miller, Willie Colon and Maurkice Pouncey.

There is still a chance that Harrison and Colon could be released this offseason, but if they're not, it is hard seeing both being on the roster in 2014. If both are ultimately released next offseason, instead of this offseason, it will free up $10.925 million worth of cap space in 2014 for starters.

Taylor will be entering the final year of his contract in 2014. Depending on his play in 2013, he could be a candidate to have his base salary of $7 million cut in half or be released outright. This is especially true should the Steelers wind up re-signing unrestricted free agent cornerback Keenan Lewis this offseason. Cutting Taylor outright next offseason, should that be the end result, would save $7 million cap space in 2014. Should he take a pay cut instead, the amount of the cut will be cap money saved.

Polamalu is an enigma and his 2014 status depends entirely on his play in 2013. Should he play in at least 14 games, and do so at an All-Pro level, his $8.25 million base salary in 2014 will be justified. We will leave that one alone for now, but 2014 will be the final year of his current contract just so you know.

Both Roethlisberger and Pouncey will be prime candidates to have their contracts extended next offseason, which in turn will lower their 2014 cap hits. How much? That is entirely too hard to speculate right now, but the process will produce cap savings in 2014.

Timmons and Brown will once again be prime candidates to have their contracts restructured next offseason, assuming of course both are healthy and productive. Even Woodley, assuming he has a bounce back season in 2013, could be a candidate for yet another restructure. All three will be fallback options, and I am in no way guaranteeing that all three will be restructured again. Just keep it in the back of your head as an option.

Miller, depending on how his knee recovers in 2013, could also be in line for a short extension, which in turn would lower his 2014 cap number.

As you can see, I have addressed all 10 players currently in the top 10 for 2014 with only three of them, at most, being restructured next offseason. There is quite a bit of cap savings to be had within those 10 players through the various means I laid out.

So what about the new draft class this year, and what about players such as Lewis, who might be re-signed this offseason? We still have to fill out a Rule of 51 for next offseason, right?

Correct.

Lewis if re-signed, will have a very manageable cap hit in 2013 and in 2014 I anticipate he will have a base salary and a roster bonus that can easily be rolled into a signing bonus via a restructure. If they need to. The Steelers just did that this offseason with Brown in the second year of his new contract so you should expect it with Lewis next offseason. They might not have to do it, but consider yourself warned.

The 2013 draft class, what remains of them of them next offseason, should only require roughly $5.5 million in cap space in their second season. The 2014 draft class will have a rookie pool in the neighborhood of $5.5 million, but they will be displacing the bottom end of the Rule of 51. The bottom of the roster at this time next year will consist of more futures players, just as it does this year. Always remember displacement.

Are there any candidates for the franchise tag next offseason? Not really, no, but if not extended this offseason, linebacker Jason Worilds would be the only one that might remotely warrant consideration. That, however, depends entirely on what happens on the field in 2013. Should he and Ziggy Hood be extended prior to the start of the 2013 season, both of their second year cap hits in 2014 should be more than manageable.

Restricted free agents next offseason? Outside of running back Baron Batch and cornerback DeMarcus Van Dyke, assuming both stick, there shouldn't be many, if any. There could be a few exclusive rights free agents, however, depending on who makes the 2013 roster. Those players are cheap to retain.

To recap. 85% of the total cap commitment in 2014 is comprised of 10 players. At this time next offseason it will be a much lower percentage. The situation is not as bad as many would have you believe. Like every offseason there could be a termination or two and a few restructures are almost certain to happen. Extending the contracts of both Roethlisberger and Pouncey will alleviate more of the cap strain and a few more restructures will take care of the rest.

So will the Steelers be over the cap in February of 2014? Yes, more than likely, but once again it will be very fixable with very limited carnage. This is the life of a team in the NFL that has a franchise

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/02/steelers-2014-salary-cap-fears-contract-restructures/

that's a great article and I understand where you are coming from. But you kinda prove my point. If those 10 players were younger and better it wouldn't be a problem. Unfortunately those aren't a stellar 10 to be taking up so much space. You have a borderline washed up Troy, a getting there Harrison, an out of shape underachiever in Woodley, an 30 year old TE coming off injury, a #2 WR making #1 money...I mean, seriously only sure fire no doubter are Pouncey and Timmons. Maybe you throw in Ben and Brown in there. Great, that's four core players that really warrant there salaries. We then have to be put in a position of having to sign extensions to players maybe we shouldn't, because we need them to help our cap out.

But if you cut bait now, you take the hit, play the youngsters and get them ready. You'd then have this draft, next draft, and some cap room going into 2014. That sounds better than going into 2014 with unproven young players, aging veterans who are in lineup as much to justify their cap number as for their talent, and trying to replace Ike, Troy and others on the fly. It also means we are forced to pay too much for Lewis who is imho at best a #2 corner.

I get the argument that we seem to be in this position in the past and have made it work. I counter that we had much better talent waiting in the wings to take over i.e Ike, Timmons, Mendenhall, Woodley, Wallace, Brown, Heath, Pouncey. Now after essentially average to wasted 3-4 DE picks and poor secondary picks our cupboard is bare. Not a RB in the stable, Worilds is no world beater, Spence is injured, Brown seems a wasted cb pick to me. 2012 draft whether through injury or ineffectiveness has given us zero production.

Let's just truly rebuild instead of extend and pretend. We have some decent offensive side talent and a couple pieces on D. Why can't we just get this over with regarding the cap and cutting players, and use next two drafts, and 2013 FA season to go on another sustainable run?

steeltheone
02-28-2013, 07:37 PM
What am I guaranteeing based off of? Both of those guys are former DPOY. Say what you will, there's a market for guys like that. Just because they were unproductive for us doesn't mean they will be for another team. You're in the mindset of 'well, who would want them? they're too old' but aren't looking at it from the other perspective - Harrison still got 6 sacks at 35 and Polamalu was leading in Pro Bowl votes until he was taken off the ballot due to injury.

It doesn't matter how old they are, there is a market for these guys if they became available. Of course, a renegotiation of contracts would have to take place for a team that might not be willing to take on a 20 million dollar cap hit for these two, but if the price was right for the both of them, a deal would get done.

Maybe the Jets was a bad example as they're in worse cap shape than we are, but you get the point. A team that has some cash to spend that is willing to negotiate a contract with these two would do it. You don't think the Patriots would be interested in acquiring Troy? Or the Niners - who have 15 picks - would be interested in letting Goldson walk and grabbing Polamalu in return for a second round pick?

Carson Palmer was a guy that never really accomplished anything in his career and was traded for multiple first and second round picks. Troy is a former DPOY and arguably the best Safety in the league when he's healthy. I don't see the argument of 'well, there's no market for him' when there's obviously going to be interest for someone like that. It'd be silly to suggest otherwise. Troy can be most productive in a star studded Defense because he can play randomly...if he has to play the typical safety, he is not worth close his salary.

Harrisons 6 sacks are pathetic at his pay. It is his time, like it was Porter and Gildon to break ties.

TheVet
03-01-2013, 01:14 AM
I'm not ready to say goodbye to Harrison yet; he was increasingly effective every game after he came back, and he was his completely awesome self by the end of the season. But I understand the Steeler way, and I could see it happening, but this one would hurt. I really hope they can work something out. Also, despite all those LB drafts, we're left without a proven backup.

Similarly comments for Troy, but even more so - he's just too incredibly great to let go of yet.

I really hope we take the risk with these guys, and hope they can stay healthy... hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst...

ebsteelers
03-01-2013, 08:30 AM
What am I guaranteeing based off of? Both of those guys are former DPOY. Say what you will, there's a market for guys like that. Just because they were unproductive for us doesn't mean they will be for another team. You're in the mindset of 'well, who would want them? they're too old' but aren't looking at it from the other perspective - Harrison still got 6 sacks at 35 and Polamalu was leading in Pro Bowl votes until he was taken off the ballot due to injury.

It doesn't matter how old they are, there is a market for these guys if they became available. Of course, a renegotiation of contracts would have to take place for a team that might not be willing to take on a 20 million dollar cap hit for these two, but if the price was right for the both of them, a deal would get done.

Maybe the Jets was a bad example as they're in worse cap shape than we are, but you get the point. A team that has some cash to spend that is willing to negotiate a contract with these two would do it. You don't think the Patriots would be interested in acquiring Troy? Or the Niners - who have 15 picks - would be interested in letting Goldson walk and grabbing Polamalu in return for a second round pick?

Carson Palmer was a guy that never really accomplished anything in his career and was traded for multiple first and second round picks. Troy is a former DPOY and arguably the best Safety in the league when he's healthy. I don't see the argument of 'well, there's no market for him' when there's obviously going to be interest for someone like that. It'd be silly to suggest otherwise.


doesnt matter how old they are?

i think that is off base, but to each is own.

im not saying there isnt a market for them, just not a high second round pick.. maybe 4th or 5th even still unlikely

unless harrison is healthy there is no market for him at that salary though.

if i was a team like the 49ers, i'd rather trade my second rounders for revis who although injuried is a heck of a lot younger then troy or harrison

cowherpower
03-01-2013, 09:00 AM
Seeing the Falcons cut Dunta Robinsons, MIchael Turner and John Abraham is exactly what I feel the Steelers need to do. Those are big names with bloated cap numbers and they are using a cleaver on that roster. Kudos to them. But like another poster said, it's possible there are some major Steelers cuts to come so we shall see

Hawaii 5-0
03-07-2013, 02:34 PM
Pittsburgh Steelers: Searching for Middle Ground

March 4, 2013
by Mike Tanier

The Steelers are an old team. Of the 42 players who started at least one game in 2012, 15 were at least 30 years old. They are a successful team: Roethlisberger, Woodley and Timmons, three of their four high-profile refinances this week, were key starters for the 2008 Super Bowl champions; Antonio Brown joined them for the 2010 AFC championship run.

The Steelers are also a frugal franchise, one that rarely signs top-tier free agents and has historically been judicious about parting ways with expensive veterans. But when a team is both old and successful, contracts start piling up. James Harrison, soon to be 35 and in obvious decline after a six-sack season, costs more than $10 million in cap space. Larry Foote, 33 before next season, and Casey Hampton, 36, are unrestricted free agents. The Steelers would like to restructure Harrison and keep Foote; they also have expensive, declining defensive starters like Ike Taylor and Ryan Clark clogging up cap space. Most of these players helped the team win one Super Bowl and appear in a second; many were on the 2005 championship team as well. At least the Steelers are paying for a dream home they got to enjoy for years, not an investment rental they were always repairing.

Like the Cowboys, the Steelers have wriggled under the salary cap for 2013 by causing some 2014 problems, and they still need a little more wiggle room to be able to sign draft picks, tender offers to restricted free agents like receiver Emmanuel Sanders, make an offer to Foote, and do anything more than watch during free agent season. Unlike the Cowboys, the Steelers do not have many problems that extend beyond 2014. The Roethlisberger, Woodley, Timmons and Brown commitments eat up $50 million in cap space in 2015, but there is little else on the books by then, and three of the players getting paid are a franchise quarterback and a pass rusher and receiver who will be only 29 years old that year.

Even after the restructurings, the Steelers face a fascinating dilemma. Their nucleus is just one year removed from a 12-4 season, so a purge does not seem necessary; plus, the structure of so many of their veteran contracts would cause a dead money nightmare (cutting Harrison this year, which is still a possibility, would burn $4.9 million in dead money). At the same time, new deals for players at the Harrison-Foote age-and-performance level seem like a terrific way to be in financial peril in two years. The generation below Woodley-Timmons has never coalesced, so releasing too many veterans would cost the Steelers heavily on the field. If the Steelers emulate the Falcons, they risk sparking a full-court rebuilding cycle. If they emulate the Cowboys, they risk paying millions for the rights to release Harrison in two years.

The Steelers never emulate anyone; they follow their own path, and it often always works. So far, they have navigated a treacherous route between austerity and the splurge this offseason. Take care of the franchise quarterback? Sure. Make sure the Steelers pass rush still looks like a Steelers pass rush, even if it costs a premium? Some things have to be done. James Harrison's agent says he will not take a pay cut, and Larry Foote would love to return? Well, perhaps Jason Worilds and Sean Spence are ready for increased roles. In the draft, they will look for players who can be productive starters in 2015. By then, most of the problems of paying aging champions will have solved themselves. Until then, there is enough talent to compete for the division.

The Steelers see a window that will be open for one more year. The Falcons are tinkering with an environmentally conscious light-and-ventilation system they hope will work indefinitely. The Cowboys are running the electric lights and dual-zone air conditioning. Nothing comes without a price in the NFL. It's all a matter of whether you want to pay now like the Falcons, pay in 2014 like the Steelers, or pay in perpetuity, like a certain team in silver and blue.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/42239236

FrancoLambert
03-07-2013, 04:28 PM
2nd or 3rd round pick for Harrison? Where do I sign?

JVip
03-08-2013, 02:29 PM
Lebeau also has relied on being to fancy because of Troy's ability and doesnt seem to have any plan in place for when Troy is gone (he already is as he will never be the player he was before).

You're on this board, so I am assuming you watched every Steelers game as obsessively as most here.. If so then you should recall that Troy was missing a vast majority of the games last year. Once adjustments were made the defense played pretty dam good (minus the turnovers). I just don't get all the DL bashing. We had Will Allen playing safety, he was coached up and played well beyond his potential. Pretty sure the man has a solid gameplan for when Troy is not here.

I usually don't post much, but the DL & BB bashing has gotten way out of hand. I can't believe all the people calling for a change from the 3-4. There is a reason teams keep switching to a 3-4 from a 4-3.

austinfrench76
03-08-2013, 09:15 PM
And I agree that this cap restructuring year after year is getting old. Lets hope the 2015 cap is as bug as I've heard its going to be...

steelerchad
03-08-2013, 10:26 PM
I think the Steelers think they have 5 more good years with a franchise QB. You won't see a wholesale release of vets and infusion of young guys until they are ready to start over at QB. They won't waste 2 or 3 of Ben's last 5 or 6 years grooming young guys.
By the time those guys are ready to win, Ben will be done and who knows what we'll end up with at QB. For every team that has a top tier QB there are 4 who don't. Chances are we're more likely to end up with someone closer in talent to Mike Tomczak than Ben. If you don't believe it just list the names in between Bradshaw and Ben.

Kordell
O'Donell
Woodley
Maddux
Graham
Tomczak
Brister

probably forgot a couple, but does it really matter.

steeltheone
03-08-2013, 10:45 PM
I think the Steelers think they have 5 more good years with a franchise QB. You won't see a wholesale release of vets and infusion of young guys until they are ready to start over at QB. They won't waste 2 or 3 of Ben's last 5 or 6 years grooming young guys.
By the time those guys are ready to win, Ben will be done and who knows what we'll end up with at QB. For every team that has a top tier QB there are 4 who don't. Chances are we're more likely to end up with someone closer in talent to Mike Tomczak than Ben. If you don't believe it just list the names in between Bradshaw and Ben.

Kordell
O'Donell
Woodley
Maddux
Graham
Tomczak
Brister

probably forgot a couple, but does it really matter.

Jim Miller, Todd Blackledge, Steve Bono, Scot Cambell, Cliff Stoudt

Hawaii 5-0
03-10-2013, 08:31 PM
Over past 3 years, no one has restructured more contracts than Steelers

By Mark Kaboly
Published: Sunday, March 10, 2013

The Steelers are all in, and there doesn't appear to be an end in sight.

The team has been leading the charge of restructuring the contracts of young, high salary-cap stars to get into compliance with the recent trend of a flat salary cap since the NFL lockout 19 months ago.

It's a change in behavior, if not philosophy, for a franchise that seldom seemed to need tweaking of its financial books.

The Steelers restructured three of their top salary cap players recently — Ben Roethlisberger, Antonio Brown, Lawrence Timmons — that pushed $14 million into future years to get into cap compliance before the Tuesday deadline.

It hasn't been just the Steelers. More than 15 restructures have taken place during the past two weeks around the NFL, including seven in Dallas.

“It just seems like a lot of teams are doing it nowadays,” veteran Pittsburgh-based agent Ralph Cindrich said. “Really, it has been around since the start of free agency in 1994. There would be always a restructure of contracts in order to create cap room.”

The Steelers are among the leaders in restructuring contracts since the lockout ended in August 2011, when the cap dropped $3 million after the uncapped 2010 season.

They have reworked 13 deals — Roethlisberger three times; Timmons twice; Brown, Heath Miller, Chris Kemoeatu, James Harrison, Brett Keisel, LaMarr Woodley, Ike Taylor, Willie Colon once — that pushed $54.7 million into future years.

Andrew Zimbalist, an economics professor at Smith College in Massachusetts, said it is what organizations are faced with in a league like the NFL that has a hard salary cap.

“It is what teams have to do to hold onto their personnel and still meet the tighter cap,” Zimbalist said. “I think it makes sense in general, but I am sure some teams are encumbering themselves, and it may become difficult.”

WHAT IS A RESTRUCTURE?

Restructuring is done to create cap room for a specific season. Teams convert a large portion of that year's salary into a bonus. That bonus is then spread out over the remaining years of a player's contract, lowering the amount of money that is applied to the team's maximum payroll — or salary cap — for the upcoming season.

For example, Roethlisberger was set to make $11.9 million in salary this year. The Steelers converted $9 million of that salary into a bonus that was paid to Roethlisberger immediately in a lump sum. For salary cap bookkeeping purposes, that bonus will count as $3 million a year over the remaining three years of his contract. The move saved the Steelers $6 million in cap space this year but pushed it into the future, raising Roethlisberger's cap hit for each of the following two years.

Although popular now, this maneuver has been used less frequently in recent years because of the salary cap skyrocketing by nearly $40 million from 2005-09.

In 2010, with no salary cap, restructures weren't needed. In the several years prior to that, with the 2006 collective bargaining agreement giving more money than ever to the players, teams didn't need to resort to restructuring to create current cap room, as plenty of teams were below the spending limit.

“I don't know if it is more or less this year, but you see the same teams going through it year after year, one of which is the Steelers,” ESPN business analyst Andrew Brandt said. “Don't kid yourself. There are a lot of teams out there who are not doing it.”

THE STEELERS WAY

The question surrounding teams that restructure contracts is whether the deferred money will catch up to them, forcing them into future salary purges?

“It is hard to say if there is a way around it,” Brandt said.

So far, it hasn't caught up to the Steelers, and according to Zimbalist, it is a practice that some teams need to do.

“I think it is a prudent practice, and it is one that has been followed for a long time in the NFL,” Zimbalist said. “Given the structure of the salary cap, it makes sense for them to do it.”

The Steelers target young players they plan to keep for an extended time early in their first lucrative contract. Also targeted is the franchise quarterback because he counts the most against the cap and isn't in danger of being cut.

Still, eventually there will be dead money — money that counts against the salary cap despite the player no longer being with the team — that the organization has to address.

“If a team builds up $20 million, $30 million, $40 million of nonroster money, then they are working on a $120 million cap with $80 million or $90 million,” Brandt said. “Sure, teams can be successful because they have really good players or they don't need to build up a lot of depth, but in theory it would seem to be a big problem.”

Restructuring leads to a top-heavy roster, which puts an added importance on adequate scouting and drafting. Before Roethlisberger's deal was restructured for the third time, four players accounted for almost 50 percent of the Steelers' cap number. Now the salaries of the top five players account for more than 40 percent of the cap.

“They are trying to get as much flexibility as they can during the transition years,” Zimbalist said. “(The fact that) they are engaging in this more than they have in the past is attributable to adjustments to the ... cap.”

The other drawback is that it prevents the Steelers from signing some of their top-tier free agents and even entertain pursuing the open market; they are doing all they can to keep their own players.

The last notable free agent the Steelers landed was nearly a decade ago in Duce Staley.

“You may need to restructure like that in order to win a Super Bowl and to be in that position,” Cindrich said. “If you do, then so what? To me, if it gets you to the Super Bowl and win it, and if it works for one year, then it is worth it. The way that I look at it is, if you win a Super Bowl, then it doesn't catch up to you.”

The NFL announced last week that the salary cap will be $123 million, which is where it was in 2009 in the final capped year of the previous CBA. The cap is unlikely to climb in coming years, despite the expected influx of as much as $40 million from TV contracts in 2015. Steelers general manager Kevin Colbert said as much last year.

“It would be hard for me to believe that any team is counting on that,” Brandt said.

But it is hard to deny the results the Steelers have had on the field since going all out in restructuring: They went to the Super Bowl, won a division, made to the playoffs twice and won 35 games over the past three years.

The Steelers declined to comment, citing team policy of not speaking about organizational philosophy.

THAT'S HOW THEY DO BUSINESS

While the Steelers believe — based on recent history — that restructuring is the model that best fits their organization, others disagree with the philosophy.

Brandt spent 10 years as Green Bay's contract negotiator from 1999-2008 and is the director of sports law at Villanova and a lecturer at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School of Business. He doesn't subscribe to the model of short-term room for long-term consequences.

He calls it a “vicious cycle.”

“From a fiscally responsible point of view, you try not to do it,” Brandt said. “You can always justify it, as in, ‘We are going for it and trying to win now versus later.' I understand that. I am just a strong believer in a pay-as-you-go model where you are never pushing out charges to the future. I believe in protecting the future more than worrying about the present. It is a philosophical decision.”

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/3568268-74/cap-million-steelers#ixzz2NBP6243A