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pczach
03-05-2013, 06:13 PM
Everyone here wants to score points like the Patriots, right? Do you know what the biggest difference there is between the Steelers and the Patriots? It's the number of rushing touchdowns. The Patriots lead the league with 25 rushing touchdowns. The Steelers had 8. Let me say that again. The Patriots had 25 rushing touchdowns. The Steelers had 8. That's a difference of 17 TD's.

Rushing stats link: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2012&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Go

What would the Steelers have done with an additional 119 points? All this talk about Brady being so great, and Ben being several notches below is way overblown.

Here are the passing stats: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=1&statisticPositionCategory=QUARTERBACK&qualified=true&season=2012&seasonType=REG

Brady had 34 TD 8 Int in 16 games. Ben had 26 Td 8 Int in 12 games. I believe that the offensive line play is what can elevate the Steelers to an elite offense. The biggest problem this team had last year was the inability to get the necessary yards in the running game. I'm talking about the big moments....3rd and short, 4th and short, and certainly in goal to go situations. If they can run when they HAVE TO, it will open everything else up. Being one dimensional is the easiest thing to stop in football. Making teams defend both the run and the pass will transform this offense. I just think this is something that needed its' own thread. When I read people here ripping Big Ben and saying he's our problem, It drives me crazy. Every time they talk about Brady, you'd swear he was throwing 80 Td's a year. I'm just trying to give some perspective and information that I think explains the Steelers' offensive problems. A dominant line and a big time back would change everything.

harrison'samonster
03-05-2013, 06:18 PM
couldn't agree more. Very well put. Our offense by the end of the season was one dimensional.

Running the ball is so crucial to keeping Defenses off balance, controlling the clock and protecting the ball, wearing down a defense, scoring in the red-zone. It seems to me even the offenses that score a lot without a dominating running game have Rb's that contribute a lot to the passing game.

SteelersCanada
03-05-2013, 06:25 PM
Running the ball becomes a lot easier when the other team has to respect the pass because, ya know, Tom Brady is under center. The Pats could run it 8 times in a row and the defense would still be respecting the pass. While I do agree that we have to get back to running the ball efficiently (and not just in general because we have Ben under center) the way that Pats offense is built is to have the defense respect the pass and go hurry up and let Brady pick shit apart.

sluggermatt15
03-05-2013, 06:27 PM
Everyone here wants to score points like the Patriots, right? Do you know what the biggest difference there is between the Steelers and the Patriots? It's the number of rushing touchdowns. The Patriots lead the league with 25 rushing touchdowns. The Steelers had 8. Let me say that again. The Patriots had 25 rushing touchdowns. The Steelers had 8. That's a difference of 17 TD's.

Rushing stats link: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2012&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Go

What would the Steelers have done with an additional 119 points? All this talk about Brady being so great, and Ben being several notches below is way overblown.

Here are the passing stats: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=1&statisticPositionCategory=QUARTERBACK&qualified=true&season=2012&seasonType=REG

Brady had 34 TD 8 Int in 16 games. Ben had 26 Td 8 Int in 12 games. I believe that the offensive line play is what can elevate the Steelers to an elite offense. The biggest problem this team had last year was the inability to get the necessary yards in the running game. I'm talking about the big moments....3rd and short, 4th and short, and certainly in goal to go situations. If they can run when they HAVE TO, it will open everything else up. Being one dimensional is the easiest thing to stop in football. Making teams defend both the run and the pass will transform this offense. I just think this is something that needed its' own thread. When I read people here ripping Big Ben and saying he's our problem, It drives me crazy. Every time they talk about Brady, you'd swear he was throwing 80 Td's a year. I'm just trying to give some perspective and information that I think explains the Steelers' offensive problems. A dominant line and a big time back would change everything.

Thanks for sharing this, and I agree with you. In the past the Steelers have usually been very good on 3rd and short. But recently we have struggled, and I believe that cost us in games. Not converting there can make a big difference. Keeping the drive going is essential to scoring, gaining momentum, and keeping the other team's defense on the field. This has to be something that Tomlin addresses during camp this summer.

Twentyvalve
03-05-2013, 07:13 PM
I agree. I knew this, you knew that, I think the entire league knew this. Thanks for putting together the stats, as a member of this board I appreciate your time and energy. Despite the loss to the Ravens, I think the Patriots were the best team in the league. People hate Brady (I don't) but the man can throw a football. And his crew can catch.... and apparently run. I think next year they will be back with a vengeance. I would love to see us and them for the division title next year.


Everyone here wants to score points like the Patriots, right? Do you know what the biggest difference there is between the Steelers and the Patriots? It's the number of rushing touchdowns. The Patriots lead the league with 25 rushing touchdowns. The Steelers had 8. Let me say that again. The Patriots had 25 rushing touchdowns. The Steelers had 8. That's a difference of 17 TD's.

Rushing stats link: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2012&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Go

What would the Steelers have done with an additional 119 points? All this talk about Brady being so great, and Ben being several notches below is way overblown.

Here are the passing stats: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=1&statisticPositionCategory=QUARTERBACK&qualified=true&season=2012&seasonType=REG

Brady had 34 TD 8 Int in 16 games. Ben had 26 Td 8 Int in 12 games. I believe that the offensive line play is what can elevate the Steelers to an elite offense. The biggest problem this team had last year was the inability to get the necessary yards in the running game. I'm talking about the big moments....3rd and short, 4th and short, and certainly in goal to go situations. If they can run when they HAVE TO, it will open everything else up. Being one dimensional is the easiest thing to stop in football. Making teams defend both the run and the pass will transform this offense. I just think this is something that needed its' own thread. When I read people here ripping Big Ben and saying he's our problem, It drives me crazy. Every time they talk about Brady, you'd swear he was throwing 80 Td's a year. I'm just trying to give some perspective and information that I think explains the Steelers' offensive problems. A dominant line and a big time back would change everything.

Steelers5895
03-05-2013, 07:25 PM
that was why I had a hard time reading all the posts about our offense. the issue plain and simple with our offense was lack of a running game, injury to ben and inconsistent WR play. We will have a new #1 rb, our OL is looking good and should keep Ben upright and they will get a wr.

The issue down the stretch was extending drives.

Now the defense is where we need TONS of help.

pczach
03-05-2013, 07:41 PM
The Patriots didn't have a dominant running game. But they had more attempted runs, and averaged more per attempt than the Steelers(4.2 Pats 3.7 Steelers). They make more first downs and this allowed them to run more plays and score more points. They also were able to run in short yardage situations and finish drives by jamming the ball into the end zone. Look at the total number of plays run by both teams. I know Brady is awesome, but they ran the ball more times per game than the Steelers. They weren't able to run effectively just because of Brady. It's not like they surprised everyone. They lead the NFL in rushing touchdowns.Their offensive line is top notch. Brady sits back there in the pocket all day at times, even though he throws the ball 40 times a game. So I'm not buying that they run well because of Brady. They know he's going to throw, and defenses can't get to him. Here's the secret. It's the O-line.

mikegrimey
03-05-2013, 07:43 PM
The Patriots didn't have a dominant running game. But they had more attempted runs, and averaged more per attempt than the Steelers(4.2 Pats 3.7 Steelers). They make more first downs and this allowed them to run more plays and score more points. They also were able to run in short yardage situations and finish drives by jamming the ball into the end zone. Look at the total number of plays run by both teams. I know Brady is awesome, but they ran the ball more times per game than the Steelers. They weren't able to run effectively just because of Brady. It's not like they surprised everyone. They lead the NFL in rushing touchdowns.Their offensive line is top notch. Brady sits back there in the pocket all day at times, even though he throws the ball 40 times a game. So I'm not buying that they run well because of Brady. They know he's going to throw, and defenses can't get to him. Here's the secret. It's the O-line.

Yet when Matt Cassel played behind that line in 2008 they gave up a lot of sacks, kind of like how the colts OL started looking like shit after Manning left... The QB getting rid of the ball quickly has a lot to do with it

StainlessStill
03-05-2013, 07:47 PM
I don't want to be ANYTHING LIKE the New England Patriots*. So they score at will with finesse and short routes. Talk about dink and dunk? No thank you. The New England Patriots* have no idea what it's like to hit people in the mouth and play Steelers football so I don't give a shit how many TD pass's or how many rushing TD's New England* shows in their offense, I want to score our way and only our way and be compared to NO ONE.

pczach
03-05-2013, 07:53 PM
Yet when Matt Cassel played behind that line in 2008 they gave up a lot of sacks, kind of like how the colts OL started looking like shit after Manning left... The QB getting rid of the ball quickly has a lot to do with it

Cassel had a good year, and their running game wasn't as effective then as it was last year. As for the Colts, I thought maybe it was because all their offensive linemen got old and/or left the team. Jeff Saturday was blocking for Aaron Rodgers. Your right about the quarterback getting the ball out of his hand quickly, but come on...do you watch New England games. Brady has all day to throw.

Twentyvalve
03-05-2013, 08:01 PM
Better than looking like the Steelers and playing like Bad News Bears this season. Look, I am Steelers fan, don't get me wrong. I don't care how they look, as long as they win. What is wrong with "dink and dunk" if it scores TD's? And with 24 running TD's I hardly call that a "dink and dunk" offense. That is called good play calling.

I don't want to be ANYTHING LIKE the New England Patriots*. So they score at will with finesse and short routes. Talk about dink and dunk? No thank you. The New England Patriots* have no idea what it's like to hit people in the mouth and play Steelers football so I don't give a shit how many TD pass's or how many rushing TD's New England* shows in their offense, I want to score our way and only our way and be compared to NO ONE.

StainlessStill
03-05-2013, 08:06 PM
We'll never be like the Patriots.* They built an offense around a QB that plays a very, very different style and ability versus our own franchise QB. It's fast paced and very, very articulate with down to the blade of grass route running, routine and timing. Our QB simply doesn't operate that way and the Steelers won all those Super Bowls by having balance and establishing all phase's of our ability. We are an offense in transition under a new play calling regime, we'll be fine but we won't be scoring like New England* anytime soon. Simply different approach's. Touchdowns are all fine and dandy but we need to find a way to put the ball into the endzone OUR way within our approach, not somebody else's.

harrison'samonster
03-05-2013, 08:08 PM
We'll never be like the Patriots.* They built an offense around a QB that plays a very, very different style and ability versus our own franchise QB. It's fast paced and very, very articulate with down to the blade of grass route running, routine and timing. Our QB simply doesn't operate that way and the Steelers won all those Super Bowls by having balance and establishing all phase's of our ability. We are an offense in transition under a new play calling regime, we'll be fine but we won't be scoring like New England* anytime soon. Simply different approach's. Touchdowns are all fine and dandy but we need to find a way to put the ball into the endzone OUR way within our approach, not somebody else's.

I think the point of the thread was to point out that we need to have a better running game to score more points, not run an offense like the Patriots

zcoop
03-05-2013, 08:09 PM
The Patriots didn't have a dominant running game. But they had more attempted runs, and averaged more per attempt than the Steelers(4.2 Pats 3.7 Steelers). They make more first downs and this allowed them to run more plays and score more points. They also were able to run in short yardage situations and finish drives by jamming the ball into the end zone. Look at the total number of plays run by both teams. I know Brady is awesome, but they ran the ball more times per game than the Steelers. They weren't able to run effectively just because of Brady. It's not like they surprised everyone. They lead the NFL in rushing touchdowns.Their offensive line is top notch. Brady sits back there in the pocket all day at times, even though he throws the ball 40 times a game. So I'm not buying that they run well because of Brady. They know he's going to throw, and defenses can't get to him. Here's the secret. It's the O-line.

Their system is and always have been (for Brady) designed to maximize the talent they have on the team. That and the fact that Brady is a pretty smart QB who doesn't make many mistakes always gives them a chance to win. I don't like em but I have to give them credit. (cheatin and all :chuckle:)

StainlessStill
03-05-2013, 08:14 PM
I think the point of the thread was to point out that we need to have a better running game to score more points, not run an offense like the Patriots

I know that, but the title could very much be mis-leading. New England runs the ball in their type of fast paced offense that we simply can't and will not employ. It's quite obvious that the Steelers need to run the ball better as a team, it's actually what is keeping us from forming our own identity right now. The Steelers showed they can be T.O.P and chain moving SONS OF BITCH'S if Haley's offense works and that has a ton to do with an established running game. New England scored rushing touchdowns, but they did it in a way we will never approach. Yes, we need a better running game. Art II pounded his fist and demanded such a thing but it's hard to do that when you're constantly hurt and have moving pieces QUARTERLY running the offense. 2012 can seriously GF itself, haha.

wwhickok
03-06-2013, 07:04 AM
1) We don't need to score 40+ points against anyone, even the Patriots to win games.
2) Yes.

We need to keep our Oline healthy and establish a running attack that can demoralize defenses the way the Patriots do. While we don't NEED to score 40+ points per game, Id love to see us do it.

teegre
03-06-2013, 07:42 AM
OP: I agree. A better running game is essential... but... how do I say this...

As much as I dispise Belichick, he's a genius.

When no one uses the middle of the field, Belichick drafted two superb TEs. In turn, they owned those short routes & the middle of the field, when no one else did.

Likewise, with the offenses focused on passing, the defenses became "overly" focused on stopping the pass. Thus, this past season, Belichick committed to the run. Early on, they hit the wall a lot... but, eventually, they got the timing down, and became a dual threat. In turn, they now can run the ball... when few teams legitimately can.

The Steelers can be equally as balanced. When the O-line was HEALTHY, they ran "at will" against the NYGiants. In turn, once the safeties started creeping up, the receivers were more open.

The key for the Steelers is not to change what they're going (the play-calling is pretty darn good); the key is to stay healthy.

Greg Cosell averred that the Steelers were looking more & more effective as the year was progressing... until the O-line got injured (& obviously, once BB was injured).

Health... simply, health.

VaDave
03-06-2013, 07:42 AM
The key to the Pats running game is to keep as many defenders out of the box as possible by the attacking the flanks as well as short crossing routes. When we try to run, 9 guys on defense are running down hill at the LOS. When the Pats snap the ball, they got receivers running all over the place, so other than the DL, most of the other defenders are not moving towards the LOS. This is a HUGE difference.

For the record, I too admire what the Pats have done over the last 6 years ( Post Spy Gate). This is one of the best offenses in the history of the NFL we've been watching, and terms like dink and dunk be damned. Call it what you want, it freakin' works!

VaDave
03-06-2013, 07:49 AM
Do we need a better running game? Absolutely! It's been a gripe of mine since Arians took over the offense.

The best fix for a running game is better blocking, and for that you need better players that are healthy. That has been a scarce commodity for the last several seasons.

It would also help if the O actually WORKED at running the ball. Sometimes they look like they just watched some game film to prepare for certain games. It pretty obvious that working on running plays do not make up the majority of offensive practice time. If it is, heaven help us.

Kingmagyar
03-06-2013, 07:59 AM
The problem with the offense is this. It is near impossible for a team to march 10-12 plays down the field on a consistant basis without something bad happening first. A penalty, A turnover, A Sack. It's great if you start a game with a drive like that or even finish one, but in between you need those 2-3 play drives where a RB runs 50+ yards for a TD. Or you actually hit the fastest receiver in the game once in awhile deep.

Explosive plays come with adding talent on offense this draft. TE, WR, RB should be all high picks, but if they don't start getting explosive with the offense they are for sure destined to relive the 80's again and I fear they are closer to doing just that. There are holes all over this football team.

I like the idea of a Patriot's style offense that can convert over to a running game when it builds a lead. The two TE attack may in the Steeler's future as soon as the first round of this year's draft. Remember Heath Miller won't be back until late OCT-NOV and Paulson is all we got on the roster right now.

VaDave
03-06-2013, 08:03 AM
Good points about the penalties, sacks, dropped passes, and such.

RE: Runners going for 50 yards or more

I though that's what our Bubble Screens were for.... lol

No doubt a few more big plays would be really nice, but like King said, where are they going to come from?

steelfury02
03-06-2013, 09:10 AM
I don't want to be ANYTHING LIKE the New England Patriots*. So they score at will with finesse and short routes. Talk about dink and dunk? No thank you. The New England Patriots* have no idea what it's like to hit people in the mouth and play Steelers football so I don't give a shit how many TD pass's or how many rushing TD's New England* shows in their offense, I want to score our way and only our way and be compared to NO ONE.

the problem is - "our way" doesn't equal scoring. something has to give - i'm a little confused by "hitting someone in the mouth" equaling scoring?

I bet you'd give a shit if we were scoring tons of points and then it stopped. The problem is - we never score a lot of points and part of me wonders if it has to do with personnel and stubborness - if we had a fantastic line, then maybe 5-7 step drops and improv would make the offense carry this team like it should have with all this talent - but it hasn't and it won't. The supporting cast regressing is also a huge factor. I'd love for our offense to be a home-run hitting, vertical offense - but, it just isn't in the cards right now

lloydwoodson
03-06-2013, 11:08 AM
This is a repost. The exact same statement was made about 2 months ago and I destroyed that post then.

THE NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS SCORED 25 RUSHING TOUCHDOWNS AS A DIRECT RESULT OF GREAT QUARTERBACK PLAY IN THE ENGINEERING OF SCORING DRIVES.

Brady is absolutely responsible for those rushing touchdowns. The Pats do not have an AD breaking 40 yard touchdown runs.

Last year Green-Ellis had 11 rushing touchdowns on... wait for it... 667 yards. His longest run was 18 yards. Elite running back or getting stats as a result of a high-efficiency offense run by one of the best quarterbacks ever? You decide.

Brady ran for 4 touchdowns.... because he is such a great scrambler or because he threw his way to the 1 yard line?

The Pats have average running backs who excel in an amazing offense. The end.

austinfrench76
03-06-2013, 11:23 AM
To answer the thread question...No. I want to score like the Steelers when healthy. They have playmakers all over the place that under performed or were hurt last year. I agree with lloydwoodson's point in that every team has a "circumstance". Theirs is a great O scheme. We have the talent, and I believe the coaches to get it done. But, if we cannot stay healthy none of it matters. I know that I am simplifying things but that really is what last year was all about.

sluggermatt15
03-06-2013, 11:52 AM
that was why I had a hard time reading all the posts about our offense. the issue plain and simple with our offense was lack of a running game, injury to ben and inconsistent WR play. We will have a new #1 rb, our OL is looking good and should keep Ben upright and they will get a wr.

The issue down the stretch was extending drives.

Now the defense is where we need TONS of help.

I agree. As others have pointed out, you CANNOT have a one-dimensional offense in the NFL and expect to win. It's just impossible! We were nearly 1-D this year and we went 8-8. Look at the Saints, they were nearly one-dimensional this year too and they struggled.

SteelersCanada
03-06-2013, 12:00 PM
This is a repost. The exact same statement was made about 2 months ago and I destroyed that post then.

THE NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS SCORED 25 RUSHING TOUCHDOWNS AS A DIRECT RESULT OF GREAT QUARTERBACK PLAY IN THE ENGINEERING OF SCORING DRIVES.

Brady is absolutely responsible for those rushing touchdowns. The Pats do not have an AD breaking 40 yard touchdown runs.

Last year Green-Ellis had 11 rushing touchdowns on... wait for it... 667 yards. His longest run was 18 yards. Elite running back or getting stats as a result of a high-efficiency offense run by one of the best quarterbacks ever? You decide.

Brady ran for 4 touchdowns.... because he is such a great scrambler or because he threw his way to the 1 yard line?

The Pats have average running backs who excel in an amazing offense. The end.

We agreed on something! Holy shit! Well, partly I guess. Still!

:drink:

Quackjack
03-06-2013, 01:37 PM
No. The Patriot Way is the PATRIOT Way.

They do things their way, it produces results for them. We do things our way, it produces results for us.

mikegrimey
03-06-2013, 01:56 PM
Cassel had a good year, and their running game wasn't as effective then as it was last year. As for the Colts, I thought maybe it was because all their offensive linemen got old and/or left the team. Jeff Saturday was blocking for Aaron Rodgers. Your right about the quarterback getting the ball out of his hand quickly, but come on...do you watch New England games. Brady has all day to throw.

I didn't imply or say Cassel didn't play well, but the vaunted NE online suddenly started giving up a lot of sacks. Getting rid of the ball to the open receiver quickly from a spread offebse does a lot to curtail a good pass rush. It's not a big mystery, there's just not a lot of QBs out there who are great at it. Roethlisberger has played with some good o lines here in pit, but since 06, when his style of play opened up, he's taken a large amount of sacks, he was on a better pace last year, no coincidence that we altered the offense to have him utilize more short routes and quick releases. The notion that Brady has 10 seconds to complete a pass every down is an exaggeration by people who are fishing for ways to get around admitting he's great.

Hawaii 5-0
03-06-2013, 02:31 PM
No. The Patriot Way is the PATRIOT Way.

They do things their way, it produces results for them.

very true, good point.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwI_WYlEqY2rtteTU2HSN3Ym8nHMXgf 7v2vUcJ1Y2Y_Y-P6MN3

Twentyvalve
03-06-2013, 03:34 PM
Best observation yet. The more plays a team makes, the more likely chance will catch up to them via a fumble, sack, interception, bad call, penalty, etc. The Steelers were not really operating at a level in the last few years to control any of that.

Big plays win games. Especially big games. The Steelers always seemed to be pushing a stroller across the train tracks while the other team was driving the bullet train at full speed a scant second away. Other teams always seemed like they showed up to drive the train The Steelers seemed to show up with their baby stroller every game.. Go and watch highlights from 3 or so years ago. It was a much different team, even under Arians. That included the defense too. Both defense and offense need a wake-up call from 2013. Hell, even 2011 will do. Hopefully it won't take an 8-8 season to do that. Oh wait, that happened? Maybe they can wake up next year at 6-10 and play with from intensity. Or maybe they can watch the Ravens win the SB. Wait, errr, never mind, how about the Bengals?


The problem with the offense is this. It is near impossible for a team to march 10-12 plays down the field on a consistant basis without something bad happening first. A penalty, A turnover, A Sack. It's great if you start a game with a drive like that or even finish one, but in between you need those 2-3 play drives where a RB runs 50+ yards for a TD. Or you actually hit the fastest receiver in the game once in awhile deep.

Explosive plays come with adding talent on offense this draft. TE, WR, RB should be all high picks, but if they don't start getting explosive with the offense they are for sure destined to relive the 80's again and I fear they are closer to doing just that. There are holes all over this football team.

I like the idea of a Patriot's style offense that can convert over to a running game when it builds a lead. The two TE attack may in the Steeler's future as soon as the first round of this year's draft. Remember Heath Miller won't be back until late OCT-NOV and Paulson is all we got on the roster right now.

lloydwoodson
03-06-2013, 03:41 PM
We agreed on something! Holy shit! Well, partly I guess. Still!

:drink:

Haha. I don't think we disagree on everything.

After the combine I am forced to admit that Mingo is very much like Jordan. Both of them avoided the bench press and had similar numbers in the 40 etc. I really dont like that Mingo did not compete in the bench and now don't want him drafted either.

Also, I am pro-Mike Wallace (even though there is little chance he returns).

Other than that I don't see any major philosophical differences.

StainlessStill
03-06-2013, 04:34 PM
No. The Patriot Way is the PATRIOT Way.

They do things their way, it produces results for them. We do things our way, it produces results for us.

Pretty much what I was trying to say in my posts in a nutshell. +1.

SteelersCanada
03-06-2013, 05:22 PM
Haha. I don't think we disagree on everything.

After the combine I am forced to admit that Mingo is very much like Jordan. Both of them avoided the bench press and had similar numbers in the 40 etc. I really dont like that Mingo did not compete in the bench and now don't want him drafted either.

Also, I am pro-Mike Wallace (even though there is little chance he returns).

Other than that I don't see any major philosophical differences.

I'm just razzin' ya. I'm actually pro-Mike Wallace too, just not at 60 million dollars like he wants.

I think you're absolutely right on regarding the Patriots, though - Brady makes that offense tick which includes the run game. The constant need to respect and defend the pass coupled with the hurry up offense and offensive creativity is why their run game is as effective as it is.

tony hipchest
03-06-2013, 05:34 PM
i wanna score like gronk... on and off the field.

teegre
03-06-2013, 05:35 PM
i wanna score like gronk... on and off the field.

Ha, ha, ha... well played.

pczach
03-06-2013, 05:59 PM
I'm just razzin' ya. I'm actually pro-Mike Wallace too, just not at 60 million dollars like he wants.

I think you're absolutely right on regarding the Patriots, though - Brady makes that offense tick which includes the run game. The constant need to respect and defend the pass coupled with the hurry up offense and offensive creativity is why their run game is as effective as it is.

It's amazing how pedestrian their offense got without Gronk. Maybe the talent around Brady has something to do with it too. :wink02:

GoFor7
03-06-2013, 06:29 PM
The difference between the Steelers and the Patriots:

The Patriots' offense always go for the jugular, regardless of the score or how much time (or lack of time) taken off the clock. When the Patriots' defense gets a turnover, they go for the quick strike to make the other team pay. Their offense isn't worried about babysitting its defense, they try to bury the other team.

The Steelers offense on the other hand values possession more than points. They think a game should be left up for grabs until the end and hope Ben bails them out. The few times the Steeler defense does get a turnover, they refuse to go for the quick score, and instead elect run, run, sack, punt. For the Steelers, it's the offense's job to babysit the defense.

Take a look at where last year's playoff teams rank in TOP. It's nowhere near as important as some of you fossils want to believe:

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/average-time-of-possession-net-of-ot

steeltheone
03-06-2013, 07:00 PM
I'm just razzin' ya. I'm actually pro-Mike Wallace too, just not at 60 million dollars like he wants.

I think you're absolutely right on regarding the Patriots, though - Brady makes that offense tick which includes the run game. The constant need to respect and defend the pass coupled with the hurry up offense and offensive creativity is why their run game is as effective as it is.

So AB is worth 40 some mill but Wallace not worth 60?

SteelersCanada
03-06-2013, 07:17 PM
So AB is worth 40 some mill but Wallace not worth 60?

He was targeted less times, had more catches and roughly 85 less receiving yardage. He did all of this and missed multiple games playing in a brand new system where he wasn't the number one receiver.

Why are we so hard on AB? He doesn't have the TDs? Well, that's a no-brainer considering he isn't the first or second read in the endzone. He didn't have the yardage? Again, he wasn't the first read and was working in an offense that made everyone adjust. I don't understand why we're so hard on AB - he had 700+ receiving yards, missed some time and was in a period of adjustment. If he underperformed, I didn't see it.

steelfury02
03-06-2013, 08:15 PM
The difference between the Steelers and the Patriots:

The Patriots' offense always go for the jugular, regardless of the score or how much time (or lack of time) taken off the clock. When the Patriots' defense gets a turnover, they go for the quick strike to make the other team pay. Their offense isn't worried about babysitting its defense, they try to bury the other team.

The Steelers offense on the other hand values possession more than points. They think a game should be left up for grabs until the end and hope Ben bails them out. The few times the Steeler defense does get a turnover, they refuse to go for the quick score, and instead elect run, run, sack, punt. For the Steelers, it's the offense's job to babysit the defense.

Take a look at where last year's playoff teams rank in TOP. It's nowhere near as important as some of you fossils want to believe:

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/average-time-of-possession-net-of-ot

again GoFor7, i didn't hear anything from you at 5-3. I'll assume if the Steelers start scoring points you'll take full ownership of knowing it was coming. If they fail, you already know it is coming. Way to hedge your bets.

steeltheone
03-07-2013, 12:08 AM
He was targeted less times, had more catches and roughly 85 less receiving yardage. He did all of this and missed multiple games playing in a brand new system where he wasn't the number one receiver.

Why are we so hard on AB? He doesn't have the TDs? Well, that's a no-brainer considering he isn't the first or second read in the endzone. He didn't have the yardage? Again, he wasn't the first read and was working in an offense that made everyone adjust. I don't understand why we're so hard on AB - he had 700+ receiving yards, missed some time and was in a period of adjustment. If he underperformed, I didn't see it.

It's not being hard on AB....I think he is a good number 2 ( just not near as good as ppl on the board think he is)....But Wallace is a Number 1, so he should be worth significantly more.

pczach
03-07-2013, 05:14 AM
It's not being hard on AB....I think he is a good number 2 ( just not near as good as ppl on the board think he is)....But Wallace is a Number 1, so he should be worth significantly more.

Brown put up better numbers the year before playing the same WR position that Wallace played this past year. I'm not sure either one of these guys are true #1 receivers, but Brown is the more complete receiver of the two.

VaDave
03-07-2013, 07:20 AM
Brown is much better in the open field and runs better routes than Wallace. Still, Wallace has that speed thing. AB also has made some tough catches over the middle, and Wallace has that speed thing, AB can return kicks and punts, and Wallace has that speed thing......

AB still needs to work on his routes a bit, and his game awareness focus for sure. Keep in mind he was a diamond in the rough when he came and is not quite there yet. I'm fairly certain, we've seen the best Wallace has to offer.

pczach
03-09-2013, 09:18 AM
Brown is much better in the open field and runs better routes than Wallace. Still, Wallace has that speed thing. AB also has made some tough catches over the middle, and Wallace has that speed thing, AB can return kicks and punts, and Wallace has that speed thing......

AB still needs to work on his routes a bit, and his game awareness focus for sure. Keep in mind he was a diamond in the rough when he came and is not quite there yet. I'm fairly certain, we've seen the best Wallace has to offer.

I can't argue with your logic!

sluggermatt15
03-09-2013, 11:31 AM
Brown is much better in the open field and runs better routes than Wallace. Still, Wallace has that speed thing. AB also has made some tough catches over the middle, and Wallace has that speed thing, AB can return kicks and punts, and Wallace has that speed thing......

AB still needs to work on his routes a bit, and his game awareness focus for sure. Keep in mind he was a diamond in the rough when he came and is not quite there yet. I'm fairly certain, we've seen the best Wallace has to offer.

Agree with you, Dave. I also believe Wallace has made drops that he shouldn't have, some at critical times this past season. He's not like Heath, IMO, who rarely drops a pass. I really think you hit the nail that his speed separates him from some of the other guys the Steelers have. I would say if Wallace would be a more complete player he would be worth keeping.

Fire Arians
03-09-2013, 12:48 PM
i wanna score like justin timberlake actually, but that's just me