PDA

View Full Version : Harrison's impact is gone... but, let's not overreact w/ the R1 pick


teegre
03-10-2013, 02:56 PM
I was hoping for the following: Harrison plays on final season, hoists the Lombardi, and retires.

Alas.

I had faith that Harrison was returning to form. At the end of the season, he looked like the Debo of old. Yes, he was 35, but he was one if the best conditioned athletes that I've EVER seen. (e.g. There was the XLV photos hoot, where he did one-armed push-ups between photos.)

Anyway, I "was" hoping that he'd play one more year, and that Corey Lemonier would be drafted (R3) and be allowed to develop for a season. This also allowed the Steelers to focus on either a S or whomever else on R1.

My initial reaction (to the release) was: "R1 has to be an OLB."

But... I've rested on the idea, and I think that R1-R3 is going to be some order of S, OLB, and a pass-catcher (TE or WR). In R1, the Steelers will go for the BAP... and then, the next two rounds will fill the other two needs. For example:

If Jarvis Jones drops to 17, then R2 & R3 would be S and TE/WR.

If Kenny Vaccaro drops to 17, then R2 & R3 would be OLB and TE/WR.

If Tavon Austin is the choice at 17, then R2 & R3 would be S and OLB.

R1: Jones, Mingo, Vaccaro, Austin
R2: Woods, Elam, Swearinger, Ertz
R3: Escobar, Lemonier, Williams, Rambo, Swope, Dobson, Patton...

One final thought: might the switch Timmons to OLB, and draft an ILB??? Just an idea.

austinfrench76
03-10-2013, 03:08 PM
Great post! Couldn't agree more. I mentioned in another thread about Timmons. Bouchette tweeted about it and I think its a good idea too....

harrison'samonster
03-10-2013, 03:11 PM
Sounds right to me. Especially if we end up keeping Colon, a high pick for the OL seems less likely. And I know you like Austin, and a lot of others here do, but maybe with the injury to Miller and Colbert's willingness to draft WR in later rounds, I would almost think we'll go after a TE earlier.

I've heard the talk about Timmons moving to OLB. Isn't that where he played in college? Do we have another Mack ILB on the team that can step up; It seems like this would be a perfect place for Spence, but the more I've heard of him the less it seems likely we can't count on his recovery.

Bane
03-10-2013, 03:13 PM
I think Harrison will be back after a few weeks of testing the Free Agency waters. If not, I say give Worilds a shot, and draft the best player available at 17.

And I'm still holding out hope for a jump up to grab Clowney next year. Don't take that away from me.

:chuckle:

TheVet
03-10-2013, 03:29 PM
I'm afraid to mess with Timmons - I'm very happy with where he is right now!

I think Harrison will be back after a few weeks of testing the Free Agency waters. If not, I say give Worilds a shot, and draft the best player available at 17.

This occurred to me as well. Both sides wanted to get a deal done - I wonder if it's truly off the table. I really think Harrison has a few great seasons left.

harrison'samonster
03-10-2013, 03:34 PM
I'm afraid to mess with Timmons - I'm very happy with where he is right now!



This occurred to me as well. Both sides wanted to get a deal done - I wonder if it's truly off the table. I really think Harrison has a few great seasons left.

personally I feel the same way about Timmons. He's developed into a good LB in the middle of the field, I'd hate to see that messed with. I also agree with Harrison, with a full off-season to work out he's going to be in great position to play up to his ability.

teegre
03-10-2013, 03:38 PM
Sounds right to me. Especially if we end up keeping Colon, a high pick for the OL seems less likely. And I know you like Austin, and a lot of others here do, but maybe with the injury to Miller and Colbert's willingness to draft WR in later rounds, I would almost think we'll go after a TE earlier.

I've heard the talk about Timmons moving to OLB. Isn't that where he played in college? Do we have another Mack ILB on the team that can step up; It seems like this would be a perfect place for Spence, but the more I've heard of him the less it seems likely we can't count on his recovery.

The way that they were using Harrison at the end of the year (stunting inside), and the way that Timmons was already playing well near the LOS, I think that him moving to OLB will be akin to Chad Brown's move: really good. (Yes, he played OLB in the 4-3 in college.)

I know... my personal has towards Austin. At 17, it's probably too high (although, I see him going at 16 to the Rams).

Anyway, trading back to 25ish, acquiring an extra pick, and then drafting Austin, Ertz, or Eifert sounds like a good option (if Jones, Mingo, & Vaccaro are gone). Then, with that newly acquired pick, trade up to 36ish, and draft Elam.

25 - Ertz/Eifert/Austin
36 - Elam
R3 - Lemonier

SteelersCanada
03-10-2013, 03:41 PM
My only gripe with this is we tried moving Timmons to OLB and it didn't work.

Other than that, I'm happy with it. As usual. Good work, T.

teegre
03-10-2013, 03:41 PM
I think Harrison will be back after a few weeks of testing the Free Agency waters. If not, I say give Worilds a shot, and draft the best player available at 17.

And I'm still holding out hope for a jump up to grab Clowney next year. Don't take that away from me.

:chuckle:

Trade the 17th pick to a team like the Bills or Jaguars... and get their R2 pick plus next year's R1 pick (which will be a top 5 pick).

Then, trade both R1 picks (and a few other picks) to get up to #1 overall. Sounds reasonable... not probable, but reasonable.

harrison'samonster
03-10-2013, 03:42 PM
make it so

teegre
03-10-2013, 03:45 PM
personally I feel the same way about Timmons. He's developed into a good LB in the middle of the field, I'd hate to see that messed with.

To clarify, I am necessarily advocating Timmons moving to OLB, but I could see how it would be a possibility. It would give the Steelers the flexibility to draft an OLB or an ILB.

teegre
03-10-2013, 03:47 PM
make it so

I forwarded my post to Kevin Colbert.

His email is still as follows, right:
firstrounddynamo@mylaterroundareiffy.com

LVSteelersfan
03-10-2013, 03:51 PM
Timmons is great at ILB because he plays both sides of the field and covers for slow of Foote. Why Foote is a starter on this team is still a head scratcher to me.

harrison'samonster
03-10-2013, 03:52 PM
I forwarded my post to Kevin Colbert.

His email is still as follows, right:
firstrounddynamo@mylaterroundareiffy.com

:rofl: Hope he gets it perfect all the way through this year.

After a draft class that was injured, in jail, or released we could use it.

harrison'samonster
03-10-2013, 03:55 PM
Timmons is great at ILB because he plays both sides of the field and covers for slow of Foote. Why Foote is a starter on this team is still a head scratcher to me.

I know I've seen this argument before so I don't really want to get into it too much. I understand that people don't think much of Foote. But he's experienced, calls the plays, stays healthy, and had over 100 tackles. What much more could you want from the player who was suppose to be the weak link of our LB unit?

pczach
03-10-2013, 04:16 PM
I don't think Timmons should change position. We already have enough unknowns going into next year. I'd much rather keep him where we KNOW he can play at an All-Pro level. If he moves, that is one more position that we are unsure about. Keep them where we know they can play and add pieces. I also think we need to sign Lewis, and have Ike, Lewis, and Allen at corner. We have Troy and Clark back, so we're good next year. Clark will be done in a couple years. You can move Taylor to FS and have Allen as the #1 and Lewis as the #2 corners. Taylor is a big, physical player that can hit and support the run well. I think he could make the transition down the road. Polamolu is the wildcard here. If he can stay healthy, he is still very athletic and can play at a very high level for a few years. I know that's a big "if", but he stays healthy, we know that the last 2 years were bad luck for injuries and not the end of Troy. This scenario would solidify our secondary for years, and keep young, experienced corners in the system they know, and allow the Steelers to focus on other areas in the draft. Our back end of the defense will be intact, and there won't be a huge learning curve for the incoming players. They could get a pass rusher, an ILB, a WR, or an OL that falls to them early in the draft. They could then get a safety later in the draft. This is the deepest safety draft that anyone can remember. There are 15 projected starters in this draft. An average year has 6-7 projected starters. I believe this plan gives the Steelers the best chance to succeed.

Bane
03-10-2013, 04:58 PM
I forwarded my post to Kevin Colbert.

His email is still as follows, right:
firstrounddynamo@mylaterroundareiffy.com

Tell him Bane sent you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEGc5EmOXxc

PhantomJB93
03-10-2013, 05:23 PM
If Vacarro is gone the pick pretty much becomes OLB by default. One of Jones, Ansah, Mingo, and Werner will be available for sure, if not several of them.

I know we've had success with late round OLB's but that's hardly a reason to pass on an OLB if they're the BPA, which in my eyes there's a 90% chance they will be. Vacarro is the only non-OLB that has a chance of being drafted; if we are indeed keeping Colon or Foster Warmack/Cooper will not even be considered, Patterson will automatically go top ten and no other wideout is as talented as those OLB's are at their position.

SteelersCanada
03-10-2013, 05:26 PM
If Vacarro is gone the pick pretty much becomes OLB by default. One of Jones, Ansah, Mingo, and Werner will be available for sure, if not several of them.

Werner has a lot of red flags. Even if he's there, I think we have to pass on him. Mingo, Jones or Ansah would be fantastic.

fer522
03-10-2013, 06:14 PM
Wouldn't it be awesome if Jones, Mingo, and Vaccaro all drop to 17(or 2 out of the 3)
Who would you guys pick?

harrison'samonster
03-10-2013, 06:16 PM
Wouldn't it be awesome if Jones, Mingo, and Vaccaro all drop to 17(or 2 out of the 3)
Who would you guys pick?

out of those three, I would have to go with Jones at this point, but I would like to point out I am glad I don't have to make that decision.

The_Joker
03-10-2013, 06:39 PM
Anyone else want to trade up for Jarvis?

SteelersCanada
03-10-2013, 06:42 PM
Anyone else want to trade up for Jarvis?

There's too many quality players in the third and fourth rounds - which is what it'd take to trade up - to go and grab Jones. But, if the Browns get the pass rushers they're looking for, it just means a prospect falls another spot.

Mingo or Ansah at 17 is completely realistic at this point.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
03-10-2013, 07:05 PM
Almost a month away thank god

:tt04:

steelfury02
03-10-2013, 07:23 PM
Just thought I'd make everyone puke a little in their mouths - his agent is def sounding desperate - while its his job to get Harrison a job, he's already spouting off that "Harrison would love playing for the Ravens" and there's a pick of him in a Browns jersey on NFL.com. Oh the humanity. Change does suck sometime - even if its time to move on.

Anyone got a sad Steelers ballad to sing? :alcohol:

harrison'samonster
03-10-2013, 07:31 PM
man Harrison's really put on weight! No wonder they didn't want to pay him his full contract...

http://www.nfl.com/photos/0ap1000000147634/0ap2000000147568

steelfury02
03-10-2013, 07:44 PM
man Harrison's really put on weight! No wonder they didn't want to pay him his full contract...

http://www.nfl.com/photos/0ap1000000147634/0ap2000000147568

Next years What the Future Holds better not show Lamarr Woodley in a Cardinals jersey.

The_Joker
03-10-2013, 07:46 PM
Wow. My respect for James Harrison is dwindling.

steelfury02
03-10-2013, 07:49 PM
I looked into the Magic Ball and saw "What the Future Holds 2023: Mike Wallace"

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTAD6qIdavGjbuMbdbLw06bm3Y8Temsa O2MwdYeW-wCjZN-c-vC

teegre
03-10-2013, 10:53 PM
Wouldn't it be awesome if Jones, Mingo, and Vaccaro all drop to 17(or 2 out of the 3)
Who would you guys pick?

Since I am an "Elam guy", I'd have to say Jones. Jones is also (at one point) the highest-rated player in this draft; were it not for a spinal abnormality (which Michael Irvin had), he would NOT be dropping. Thus...

Jones in R1, and trade up for Elam in R2*.

*(staying put in R2, and drafting Swearinger would not be too shabby either.)

teegre
03-10-2013, 10:58 PM
Anyone else want to trade up for Jarvis?

No.
That would be the epitome of "overreacting w/ the R1 pick."

OLB is indeed a need... but, Worilds will be decent enough, while Lemonier develops for a year. Meanwhile, draft Vaccaro in R1 (or whomever the BAP might be).

Steeldude
03-11-2013, 04:28 AM
Move up in the draft to get Jones. Add Woodley to the trade if there is a team dumb enough to take him.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
03-11-2013, 04:33 AM
Move up in the draft to get Jones. Add Woodley to the trade if there is a team dumb enough to take him.

Im glad you dont run the Steelers

wwhickok
03-11-2013, 06:57 AM
I truly believe the two deepest positions in this draft are WR and OLB. That is truly why i feel that if he is there at 17 we are taking Kenny Vacarro. OLB is a lot deeper than I think people realize. Sio Moore, Jamie Collins, Zaviar Gooden, Long, and thats just a few, none of which will be taken in the first round and a couple of which will be taken on day 3. WR is REALLY deep the onlu think it lacks is BIG receivers, 6'3+. There are a few but not many.

steelfury02
03-11-2013, 07:41 AM
Move up in the draft to get Jones. Add Woodley to the trade if there is a team dumb enough to take him.

I think Woodley has some funds tied up in Fudge Rounds - but even I can't go with getting rid of him until he gets his once last chance this coming season.

If we see more of this past season than it is time to let the dead weight go

I really hope we're not seeing an attitude trend here from the young guys - hoping by Wallace and Mendy going that it fixes some of that

VaDave
03-11-2013, 08:45 AM
I'm starting to come around on Woodley. Yeah, I still think he's a lard butt, but you know, he does have a penchant for coming up with timely plays, the kind that during the course of a game can be a rallying point. It was fairly obvious this was something lacking last season. Hopefully the message about his conditioning got through to him. He's still pretty young and no doubt, when he wants too," it" happens.

Hawaii 5-0
03-11-2013, 01:32 PM
Release Of James Harrison Leaves Steelers With Uncertainty At Outside Linebacker

Mar 11th, 2013 at 3:00 am by Dominic Di Tolla

As we all know, Outside Linebacker James Harrison was released by the Steelers yesterday. Unfortunately, neither side could come to a financial agreement, and “Deebo” was sent packing. With #92 now out of town, the Steelers are in a bit of a bind at the Outside Linebacker position as they head into the 2013 campaign. Sure, former Pro Bowler LaMarr Woodley is still slotted to start on the other side. But what happens if the soon-to-be 29 year-old shows up tubby and uninspired again in 2013?

Regardless of how Woodley performs, the Steelers might be set to rely on a group of largely untested players at Outside Linebacker in 2013.

To his credit, Jason Worilds has performed well in spurts as a pass-rusher (10.0 career Sacks) during his career in Pittsburgh. But the soon to be 4th year man out of Virginia Tech has missed his fair share of time due to injuries, and must prove to the team that he can stay healthy and contribute heavily in a starting role. Furthermore, Worilds must prove that he can be stout and the point of attack, and set the edge against some of the League’s best Left Tackles the run game like Harrison did.

Chris Carter’s 2012 season ended on I.R., and he will be looking to get his career “on track” in his third professional season. Overall, Carter has yet to record a single Sack at the N.F.L. level (11 Tackles total), and he looked completely over-matched when he started in Harrison’s place to begin last season. 2013 could be a “make-or-break” year for the former Fresno State Bulldog from a performance-perspective, because he is sure to have some young and hungry competition nipping at his heels.

Before he spent all of his 2012 season on Special Teams, 2012 UDFA Adrian Robinson did a solid job during the Preseason period as a pass-rusher. Granted, the former college Defensive End’s skill-set at the position was a bit raw, and he was playing against fellow backups. Yet Robinson’s relentlessness and tenacity off of the edge were welcome sights to me and fans alike. Thus, if Linebackers Coach Keith Butler can help to develop other aspects of Robinson’s game like “setting-the-edge,” playing in space in pass-coverage, and using his leverage better as a pass-rusher, the former Temple Owl could definitely be a “diamond in the rough” for the team to turn to once he is ready to play.

Finally, do not forget about the potential addition of a high Round Draft choice at Outside Linebacker either. Although it has never been in the Steelers’ nature to select Outside Linebackers in the early Rounds of the Draft (Chad Brown at #44 in 1993 is highest in 20 years, and he played ILB as well), they could very well be forced to go in that direction early this year if a talented player is available for them to take in Rounds 1-3.

As I have stated before, the possibility exists that a number of talented Pass-Rushers could fall to Pittsburgh at #17 overall due to injury, scheme-fit, off-field, or poor workout reasons. Thus, Jarvis Jones, Damontre Moore, Barkevious Mingo, or Bjoern Werner could be available for Colbert & Co. to take in Round 1. Even if the Steelers elect to fill their Pass-Rusher needs in on Day 2 (Rounds 2 & 3), there could be a wealth of talented players available for them to select from in the forms of Corey Lemonier, Jamie Collins, and Brandon Jenkins.

The competition for playing time with Harrison absent is sure to be open to any and all able bodied players at the position. Thus, it is conceivable that any Rookie selected (high or low) could be asked to play out of necessity, especially if Worilds and Carter cannot stay off of the “Injury Report” instead of in the lineup.

Final Thoughts

Over the last two decades, a “transition strategy” has always seemed to have been in place when Pittsburgh’s Outside Linebackers have left town:

Chad Brown replaced Kevin Greene when he left for Carolina in 1996.

Jason Gildon replaced Brown when he went to Seattle in 1997

Carlos Emmons replaced Greg Lloyd when he was released in 1998.

Joey Porter replaced Emmons when he signed with Philadelphia in 2000.

Clark Haggans replaced Gildon when he was released back in 2004.

James Harrison replaced Porter when he was released back in 2007.

LaMarr Woodley replaced Haggans when he left for Arizona in 2008.

I understand that it is early in the offseason. But what truly scares me though is the fact that the Steelers do not exactly have an iron-clad “transition strategy” in place at Outside Linebacker. Granted, I have faith that this franchise can find an “answer” like they have so many times before. Yet the uncertainty and inexperience surrounding the position could be cause for alarm amongst the Front Office and Coaching Staff alike.

Who do I believe has the best chance to will step up alongside Woodley as a starter this year? I have no idea. If Worilds stays healthy, he will likely have the best chance. But as long as “Deebo” can be replaced in the productive/statistical aggregate, any duo, trio, or quartet that emerges will be fine with me.

All I can say is that I am certainly interested to see what transpires, and who emerges at Outside Linebacker over the next calendar year.

http://nicepickcowher.com/2013/03/11/the-release-of-james-harrison-leaves-steelers-with-significant-question-marks-at-outside-linebacker/

Steeldude
03-11-2013, 02:32 PM
Im glad you dont run the Steelers

Woodley wouldn't have got that absurd contract if I was running the Steelers. Now we have no OLBs on the roster worth a damn. If you ran the Steelers you would be giving Woodley a raise

Still fooled by some sacks? :thumbsup:

teegre
03-12-2013, 12:20 AM
Worilds is Clark Haggans. Whomever is drafted will be LaMarr Woodley (taking over for Haggans).

Wait... the new OLB will have a career like the FIRST THREE years of Woodley's career (rotating as a rookie, followed by two stellar seasons), and NOT like the past few years.

Bayz101
03-12-2013, 12:28 AM
Woodley wouldn't have got that absurd contract if I was running the Steelers. Now we have no OLBs on the roster worth a damn. If you ran the Steelers you would be giving Woodley a raise

Still fooled by some sacks? :thumbsup:

Woodley has had a bad couple of years. I've seen what he can do when healthy, and if he shows up to camp in good health this year i'm confident he'll have a good year.

His contract certainly doesn't add up when you look at his recent production, but i'd be willing to bank on him having a comeback year next year.

I don't think he'd give Woodley a raise, he's simply trying not too overreact too much.

SteelersCanada
04-02-2013, 10:45 AM
So, I didn't know where else to put this which is why it's going in here.

NFL Draft Prospects with the Highest Bust Potential

By
Michael Schottey

Barkevious Mingo, DE/OLB, Louisiana State

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/003/078/272/hi-res-129955527_display_image.jpg?1364848963

Barkevious Mingo is a lot like Bruce Irvin in that he'll need the perfect fit to make an impact in the NFL.

When draft experts called Irvin a reach last April, they were right. However, those same experts (this guy included) didn't expect that the Seahawks wouldn't ask Irvin to do anything he wasn't fantastic at.

It didn't matter that Irvin couldn't cover the run, because they didn't want him to. That same team brought in Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett this offseason to make sure he continues to not have to.

Mingo needs a similar role and a coach who can keep his effort up at all time. If he goes top-five or top-10 and is asked to be a team's cornerstone on the defensive line, things could go bad in a hurry.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1589061-nfl-draft-prospects-with-the-highest-bust-potential/page/9

-- I don't agree with a lot of what Michael Schotty says because, frankly, he oversimplifies a lot of the time. However, I think he's right here for a couple of different reasons. I don't know if teams see Barkevious as top 10, even top 15, pick at this point. He struggles against the run and when a team is drafting an 'End in the top 10, he'd better be able to do everything. Everything. However, if we take him at 17, he wouldn't need to be everything on the defensive line. He'd be a great piece in a defense that relies on it's 'Backers to apply consistent pressure and disrupt which is something Barkevious can do.

I don't think Mingo at 17 is a reach and, to me, would be a no-brainer at 17 if he's still on the board, regardless of who else is there.