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View Full Version : Did there used to be a sticky "FIRE BRUCE ARIANS" on here?


SteelCitian
03-11-2013, 09:29 AM
I was wondering how those people felt now. :blah: :banging:

Steelers>NFL
03-11-2013, 09:43 AM
I, for one is so glad BA is gone!

SteelCitian
03-11-2013, 09:47 AM
I, for one is so glad BA is gone!

Would you rather have Haley or him?

Steel Peon
03-11-2013, 09:49 AM
1 season does not a final result make, and I'd say overall the offensive gameplan, especially in play calling and play design, has looked a lot more intelligent. Arians' gameplan and play calling looked too much like he was throwing shit up against a wall, and nothing was sticking.

steelfury02
03-11-2013, 09:53 AM
I was wondering how those people felt now. :blah: :banging:

I feel the same way I always felt - glad he's gone. Just because he had some initial success (btw - the Colts still sucked at scoring) doesn't necessarily mean it was good for the Steelers to keep him. If you wished he would have stayed that's cool - I just couldn't stand how stale and predictable the offense got, and I couldn't stand seeing how great they were between the 20s, only to come up with squat in the red zone.

I won't get into it - but, first year coordinator before Ben's injury and he was having an MVP-caliber season - I wouldn't say that Haley is a failure yet - let's see where it goes this season - so far, I give it an incomplete.

If you don't want Haley - who do you want instead? - neither Whiz nor Arians is coming back.

EDIT: Another thought - Arians might actually make a good head coach, time will tell - doesn't mean he is elite coordinator material. Just like Lebeau is better suited as a DC than a head coach

SteelCitian
03-11-2013, 09:55 AM
Theres always Romeo Crennel... yea right lol

VaDave
03-11-2013, 10:00 AM
Does that mean we can't dump on him anymore???

Steelers>NFL
03-11-2013, 10:09 AM
Would you rather have Haley or him?

Aonyone over BA! having said that, Haley!

VaDave
03-11-2013, 10:16 AM
Arians truly was not that bad. He wasn't that great either. Honestly, I wasn't thrilled when he was promoted, and I wasn't sad that he left.

As for Haley, I think Steeler Nation is going to be pleasantly surprised if we can get an OL to play more than one game back to back with the same personnel.....

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-11-2013, 10:47 AM
I was wondering how those people felt now. :blah: :banging:

I feel similar to when Mike Mularkey left to be the Head Coach of the Bills. Happy that a mediocre OC with more gadget plays than substance went elsewhere.

Bayz101
03-11-2013, 10:49 AM
How do I feel? Pretty damn good that he's not here, honestly. I don't care how he does anywhere else, I feel his offensive creativity here was on par with what my 7 year old cousin could accomplish, and i'm glad he's elsewhere.

But...

With all that said, I wish him luck. I certainly don't wish for his failure, I just don't believe he's a good OC. At least not with Pittsburgh.

Fire Haley
03-11-2013, 10:51 AM
...yes there was

right up there with all the "William Gay must go" threads



meanwhile

Fire Haley!! is a good one

tmacsteelerfan
03-11-2013, 10:55 AM
I feel the same way. Anybody remember the Colts last offensive play of the season in the playoff game against Baltimore? 4 and 1 and they brought out the 5 wide. I know Bruce was in the hospital for that game, but it was still his playbook and I'm sure Arians, after his play calling years in Pittsburgh, would have called the same play. We all saw it on every 3rd & 4th and short while he was in Pittsburgh. Haley wasn't that successful last year but there were times, like the Jets game, where his offense was beautiful.

harrison'samonster
03-11-2013, 10:57 AM
it was definitely time to move on from BA. I also wish him nothing but the best.

PhantomJB93
03-11-2013, 11:57 AM
Bruce Arians was horrible here. Horrible. Atrocious. Todd Haley, aside from any locker room drama (which there wasn't much), was UNFATHOMABLY better in his first year. Arians found success in Indianapolis. It doesn't change how boneheaded and stupid he was here and it doesn't justify us keeping him.

VaDave
03-11-2013, 12:05 PM
BA has a major challenge in Arizona. Pretty much, he's got to build a team from scratch.

Unfortunately very few teams give coaches the time needed to pull it off, and he'll likely end up as an OC somewhere, which is his Peter Principle level of employment.

TheVet
03-11-2013, 12:48 PM
It's great that Arians is gone, but painful in that the decision was at least two years too late. I wish him good luck in finding success in his career. For whatever reason, he failed here.

VaDave
03-11-2013, 12:58 PM
It's great that Arians is gone, but painful in that the decision was at least two years too late. I wish him good luck in finding success in his career. For whatever reason, he failed here.

I exactly wouldn't say he failed here, as much as just asking why are we surprised at his lack of excellence when there was none prior?

He was a plodder, always was, and always will be. His offense, regardless of where it was, is glaringly mediocre, and that includes his past year in Indy that his boosters claim as vilification.

As for the Memphis spread he runs. I've seen the Memphis spread run at Memphis. BA's version is not that good. Just because you use a certain offense, does not mean it is run well.

For example Reggae is a great musical genre. I'm a fairly accomplished bassist with many years of touring and studio work under my belt. Just because I play a Reggae song, and as good of a song as it may be, I'm not going to play it well. I can say I play reggae but that, does not mean I'm a good reggae musician.

TheVet
03-11-2013, 02:09 PM
Hmmm, I can't even bring myself to call Arians mediocre. But I will agree with you that it's no surprise, given that there was no prior reason to expect anything out of Arians.

Honestly, the multi-year Arians debacle is also a Tomlin failure. Why wasn't "the standard the standard" when it came to coaching? Why did it take a Rooney intervention to finally get rid of this speed bump at OC?

lloydwoodson
03-12-2013, 03:08 AM
Hmmm, I can't even bring myself to call Arians mediocre. But I will agree with you that it's no surprise, given that there was no prior reason to expect anything out of Arians.

Honestly, the multi-year Arians debacle is also a Tomlin failure. Why wasn't "the standard the standard" when it came to coaching? Why did it take a Rooney intervention to finally get rid of this speed bump at OC?

Roethlisberger.

Only reason.

Everyone knew Ben was going to cry about it., throw his new OC under the bus etc. The idea was to not rock the boat... meanwhile the Steelers offense stayed flat after a good first year by Arians.

Fire Haley
03-12-2013, 09:07 AM
Bruce Arians was horrible here. Horrible. Atrocious..

oh yeah - who wants to win a SuperBowl anyway?


Mr Dink&Dunk and the stink of his 8-8 legacy is sooooooo much better

:blah::blah:

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-12-2013, 09:48 AM
Roethlisberger.

Only reason.

Everyone knew Ben was going to cry about it., throw his new OC under the bus etc. The idea was to not rock the boat... meanwhile the Steelers offense stayed flat after a good first year by Arians.

So true. He's a players coach and Ben's neighbour and golf partner in the offseason.

I love the notion that Arians has made Manning, Roethlisberger and Luck better QB's in his NFL coaching career. :rofl: Nobody mentions his Cleveland QB developments ???

He has the pieces of a good offense in the desert with Fitz and Floyd, but will see if he gets a QB with talent that can make him look good again, or make him look like Butch Davis in Cleveland.

Steel Peon
03-12-2013, 10:25 AM
oh yeah - who wants to win a SuperBowl anyway?

I guess it bears repeating, but a lot of our success in '08 is owed to the 2 min offense, and not so much Arians. In fact, here's a very concise article concerning the matter from Stillers.com (not written by Still Mill btw), all the way back on Sep 12, '09:

http://www.stillers.com/Article/View/99556a2e-749e-4431-9077-bb53fcd6593f

Hawaii 5-0
05-25-2013, 12:16 PM
Carson Palmer: I love Bruce Arians

Posted by Michael David Smith on May 25, 2013

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/arianspalmer.jpg?w=250

Carson Palmer hasn’t been the Cardinals’ quarterback for long, but he already knows one thing: He loves playing for head coach Bruce Arians.

Palmer gushed about Arians to Michael Silver of Yahoo! Sports, and he said he can already tell the rest of the team loves the new coach as well.

“I love the head coach,” Palmer said of Arians. “I mean, I love the head coach. He keeps it real. He already has this team wrapped around his finger. And we have some talented players in this locker room.”

Veterans like Palmer don’t often describe offseason workouts as enjoyable, but that’s the way Palmer feels in Arizona.

“When you like the coach and the guys in the locker room, and you know you can still play at a high level, and you feel like you can help take a team to a Super Bowl, and you know you’re job’s not gonna be as hard as it may have been before – it’s just fun,” Palmer said. “It’s been very fun since I’ve been here. And nobody thinks OTAs are fun.”

Nobody thinks Palmer has much of a chance to take the Cardinals to the Super Bowl, either. But Palmer thinks he and Arians are building something special together.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/25/carson-palmer-i-love-bruce-arians/

NSMaster56
05-25-2013, 02:43 PM
If the Internet was as viable in the mid-90's or early 00's, surely threads like these would have existed only with the names 'Chan Gailey' and 'Mike Mularkey' substituted for 'Bruce Arians'.

In ten years nobody will give a hoot about Bruce Arians.

Fire Arians
05-25-2013, 02:48 PM
Arians is gonna flop in arizona, bank on it. And I'm still glad he's gone.

Players in indy were inspired by pagano, not bruce

teegre
05-25-2013, 03:50 PM
Arians is gonna flop in arizona, bank on it. And I'm still glad he's gone.

Players in indy were inspired by pagano, not bruce

Huh? Those "Chuck Strong" banners were OBVIOUSLY directed towards Bruce Arians.

lloydwoodson
05-25-2013, 08:33 PM
oh yeah - who wants to win a SuperBowl anyway?


Mr Dink&Dunk and the stink of his 8-8 legacy is sooooooo much better

:blah::blah:

Arians was a bad offensive coordinator. He had no business calling plays that took a long time to develop with the poor offensive line he refused to address.

The Steelers consistently struggled to score especially in the red zone.

Arians' playcalling in Superbowl XLIII was bad too. He called a designed qb draw from shotgun formation on 3rd and goal from the 4 if I remember correctly. Relying on Roethlisberger to scramble 7 or 8 yards for a touchdown- brilliant stuff.

Haley was an offensive coordinator in that game too. Warner threw for 377 yards and 3 touchdowns against a historically great defense.

Of course, scoring 20 points on the Cardinals is good... if you have low standards. And the offense being unable to kill the clock in the 4th... no big deal if Ben bails the team out at the end.

lloydwoodson
05-25-2013, 08:41 PM
Haley's offense scored more points last season than Arians' did the year before.

Haley had an offensive line that saw 3 rookies get considerable playing time, and a rash of injuries (pun intended).

Haley's quarterback was injured half way into the season and missed games plus never came back as strong as before.

There was no bonafide starting running back in Haley's offense- Mendenhall was injured and despite what people think of him he is still a 1200 yard 10 td capable running back.

Wallace underperformed as everyone will tell you. AB and Sanders couldn't hang onto a ball to save the Steelers season, and the Probowl tight end went down to end things off.

Absolutely nothing went right for the Steelers last year.

However, Haley still managed to score more points than the year before with an offense that averages 25 years in age trying to learn a new playbook.

Maybe some of you should give the guy a chance before sane people completely write you off as idiots?

Ricco Suavez
05-26-2013, 08:08 AM
Arians was not as bad as most would lead you to believe. His teams had the same issues that showed up again last year, lack of a run game that could pick up short yardage situations, too many penalties, and turnovers. Throw in a miserable O-Line for most of his years and it was a recipe for mediocre offensive production. Now add that we were near the bottom of the league for many of those years as having the worst starting field position, (the result of poor ST play and the lack of TOs by other teams) and you had a team that moved the ball as well as anyone between the 20s and stalled more than usual in the red zone.

The FO and Tomlin and Arians relied too much on Ben's ability to make something from nothing, to buy time from behind a very poor O-Line, trouble is poor O-Line play affects the running game also, affects the play of your Pro Bowl TE, even affects the routes you can have your receivers run. No, Arians was not as bad as most will tell you, but I am on record that it was time to cut him loose and I was on record that I felt Haley would not come in and be a success the first year. Now in his second, I expect to see better results. We are finally getting some quality players on the Line and if we can avoid the injury bug I expect to see a nastiness up front that we have missed for some time. It would be so exciting to see this team pick up a 3rd and 3 on the ground for a change.

FanSince72
05-26-2013, 09:13 AM
oh yeah - who wants to win a SuperBowl anyway?


Mr Dink&Dunk and the stink of his 8-8 legacy is sooooooo much better

:blah::blah:


Yeah I can't tell you how pissed off I was having to sit through five years of winning seasons and playoff games and then having to watch us go to two Super Bowls and even winning one of them no less!

I'll tell ya', I was at my wits end and I don't know how I survived.

Thank God we have someone now who can just put together a simple and uneventful season without having to worry about all that post-season crap!

Buddha Bus
05-26-2013, 10:25 AM
Still glad Brucie is gone. He'll fall flat on his face in Arizona. Just wait.

Funny how we were supposed to continue waiting for 5 years plus for Bruce to work out all the kinks in his offense and not do stupid things, but people are willing to tie Haley to a stake and light him up after his first season as new o-coordinator when his starting QB, who was on an MVP pace early, was hurt seriously and out for 3 games and then wasn't 100% when he returned. We meandered around the middle to bottom half of the league in offense for most of Arians' tenure here. HIs redzone offense sucked. His third and short yardage offense sucked. His constant reliance on WR bubble screens was predictable and overused. He didn't tailor his game plans around the personnel he had available. He didn't practice against certain defenses he would face during the season. Good riddance.

Haley also had to deal with two fragile backups who were old, a revolving door o-line, a lackadaisical number 1 WR who already had plans to leave the team, and a RB and WR corps that couldn't manage to find the handle on the football at crucial times (FYI, coaches don't fumble or drop footballs). It all seems so logical to throw him under the bus after all of that "prosperity" in the personnel. :doh:

NSMaster56
05-26-2013, 10:45 AM
Arians was not as bad as most would lead you to believe...

The FO and Tomlin and Arians relied too much on Ben's ability to make something from nothing...

This is technically true. He might have done 'the best with what was given to him'; and that best was semi-successful (at times... or at least enough).

Still, BA called offensive plays like a teenager (or drunk frat boy) playing Madden:

Too many 'cute' run or draw plays (or quick screens) on first and third [and long] down, too many failed first/second downs which set up third and longs, reliance on the deep pass, stalled offense inside the RZ, lots of broken plays where the QB either scrambles for yards or scrambles long enough until he finds an open reciever who has broken coverage...

That stuff may work at a majority clip, but not for long. Even if it does it's often not by design.

It's better to be good than lucky. The Steelers, under Haley instead of Arians, have a chance to be good instead of lucky now.

lloydwoodson
05-26-2013, 12:54 PM
Yeah I can't tell you how pissed off I was having to sit through five years of winning seasons and playoff games and then having to watch us go to two Super Bowls and even winning one of them no less!

I'll tell ya', I was at my wits end and I don't know how I survived.

Thank God we have someone now who can just put together a simple and uneventful season without having to worry about all that post-season crap!

Yeah! I miss the good old days when Roethlisberger was taking first round exits against Tebow and Garrard! I miss the 2011 season when the Steelers scored under 20 points in 7 games! I'm with you! Let's trash current Steelers coaches to honor the mediocre old ones! I miss the good old days of Arians where the Steelers had one of the most vertical passing attacks in the league with one of the worst offensive lines! We need a genius like Arians again! (This was sarcasm. I am pointing that out because 9/10 Arians and Ben homers can't tell).

MACH1
05-26-2013, 01:13 PM
I miss the good old days when my seven year old could predict what the plays were going to be.

NSMaster56
05-26-2013, 02:20 PM
Yeah! I miss the good old days when Roethlisberger was taking first round exits against Tebow and Garrard!

It should be noted that the Steelers offense (Pts per game) DECREASED by three points per game the [Super Bowl] year after the Jags/Garrard loss. The 2008 Steelers also won three more games when scoring <21 points compared to 2007 (1-3 record in 07, 4-4 in 08*).

Such is a way of simultaneously saying that the team won it all in spite of BA's offense and that the Garrard loss really shouldn't be thrown in with the Tebow one because the Steelers overcame it the very next year.

*In fact, during the BA years of 2007-2011 the Steelers had the best record when scoring <21 points at 14-19 (second-fifth place: Pats 8-11, Colts 10-19, Bengals 14-30, and Ravens 12-26).

lloydwoodson
05-26-2013, 02:41 PM
It should be noted that the Steelers offense (Pts per game) DECREASED by three points per game the [Super Bowl] year after the Jags/Garrard loss. The 2008 Steelers also won three more games when scoring <21 points compared to 2007 (1-3 record in 07, 4-4 in 08*).

Such is a way of simultaneously saying that the team won it all in spite of BA's offense and that the Garrard loss really shouldn't be thrown in with the Tebow one because the Steelers overcame it the very next year.

*In fact, during the BA years of 2007-2011 the Steelers had the best record when scoring <21 points at 14-19 (second-fifth place: Pats 8-11, Colts 10-19, Bengals 14-30, and Ravens 12-26).

Those are good stats. Wow. Almost .500 when scoring fewer than 20 points. It's almost as if... the defense was the driving force behind the Steelers success... and not Bruce Arians middle of the pack offense. Weird.

FanSince72
05-26-2013, 04:26 PM
Yeah! I miss the good old days when Roethlisberger was taking first round exits against Tebow and Garrard! I miss the 2011 season when the Steelers scored under 20 points in 7 games! I'm with you! Let's trash current Steelers coaches to honor the mediocre old ones! I miss the good old days of Arians where the Steelers had one of the most vertical passing attacks in the league with one of the worst offensive lines! We need a genius like Arians again! (This was sarcasm. I am pointing that out because 9/10 Arians and Ben homers can't tell).

Well, I don't know if I'm one of those 9 out of 10 but the numbers I remember most are:
5 winning seasons (and only one of them with less than ten games won),
2 trips to the Super Bowl,
1 Super Bowl win (and the other was within reach except for a fumble).

Those numbers worked just fine for me and I don't give a rat's ass about statistics or yards per carry or vertical this or horizontal that or whether or not we did good against defenses whose combined ages added up to Prime Numbers or any of that useless bullshit.

We won every year with Arians and Arians has kept on winning and I have no reason to believe that's going to stop anytime soon.

I hope Haley can match Arians' numbers and maybe one day he will but before we put him up for Pope, let's see if he can first come up with a winning season -- you know, like the FIVE IN A ROW that Arians had?

But hey, what do I know, right? :noidea:

NSMaster56
05-26-2013, 04:39 PM
We won every year with Arians and Arians has kept on winning and I have no reason to believe that's going to stop anytime soon.

It's been one year.

16 games.

Buddha Bus
05-26-2013, 04:40 PM
Well, I don't know if I'm one of those 9 out of 10 but the numbers I remember most are:
5 winning seasons (and only one of them with less than ten games won),
2 trips to the Super Bowl,
1 Super Bowl win (and the other was within reach except for a fumble).

Those numbers worked just fine for me and I don't give a rat's ass about statistics or yards per carry or vertical this or horizontal that or whether or not we did good against defenses whose combined ages added up to Prime Numbers or any of that useless bullshit.

We won every year with Arians and Arians has kept on winning and I have no reason to believe that's going to stop anytime soon.

I hope Haley can match Arians' numbers and maybe one day he will but before we put him up for Pope, let's see if he can first come up with a winning season -- you know, like the FIVE IN A ROW that Arians had?

But hey, what do I know, right? :noidea:

Nobody's "putting the guy up for Pope". He was attacked and it was pointed out that he's only had one season and a ton of personnel issues to deal with, not the least of which was his starting QB's near-deadly injury.

The Arians apologists were big on the team winning in spite of him because we won (in large part due to the stellar defense he had covering for his ass). They also couldn't understand the hate for him and lobbied for more time, but now, in hypocritical fashion, want to call for Haley's head on a pike after one season.

I wanted Arians gone. He had 5 years to right the offense. Yes, he did just enough to get by, but the defense was a HUGE part of that success. I was glad the front office finally saw it too. I even stated that there may be some growing pains in the first season of a new offense being instituted (which happens a lot across the NFL) and I was fine with that (and possibly missing the playoffs) as long as there was great progress made in season 2. I think this season will be the one where we can more accurately gauge Haley's effectiveness as an o-coordinator for this team. If the offense struggles this year, I may begin to worry, but it won't be full-scale panic or sky is falling. The good news is that Haley will have 5 years to figure it out. :thumbsup:

Bayz101
05-26-2013, 04:43 PM
Nobody's "putting the guy up for Pope". He was attacked and it was pointed out that he's only had one season and a ton of personnel issues to deal with, not the least of which was his starting QB's near-deadly injury.

The Arians apologists were big on the team winning in spite of him because we won (in large part due to the stellar defense he had covering for his ass). They also couldn't understand the hate for him and lobbied for more time, but now, in hypocritical fashion, want to call for Haley's head on a pike after one season.

I wanted Arians gone. He had 5 years to right the offense. Yes, he did just enough to get by, but the defense was a HUGE part of that success. I was glad the front office finally saw it too. I even stated that there may be some growing pains in the first season of a new offense being instituted (which happens a lot across the NFL) and I was fine with that (and possibly missing the playoffs) as long as there was great progress made in season 2. I think this season will be the one where we can more accurately gauge Haley's effectiveness as an o-coordinator for this team. If the offense struggles this year, I may begin to worry, but it won't be full-scale panic or sky is falling. The good news is that Haley will have 5 years to figure it out. :thumbsup:

The way I see it, our exceptional players overcame bad play-calling for most Arians' time here in Pittsburgh. I'm happy he's somewhere else.

NSMaster56
05-26-2013, 04:57 PM
Fact: The 2012 Steelers scored more than the 2011 Steelers (336 to 325). Adjusting for ST and D, 2012 outscored 2011 by another TD.

Fact: The 2012 Colts outscored the 2012 Steelers by only 21 points (337 to 326) or 1.3125 points per game. Adjusting for ST and D, the Colts Outscored the Steelers by only 14 points (<1 point per game).

Fact: The 2012 Steelers allowed 87 more points than the 2011 Steelers (314 to 227).

Fact: Since 2006, every season in which the Steelers have allowed 300 or more points they have finished 9-7 or worse and missed the playoffs.

FanSince72
05-26-2013, 07:29 PM
Nobody's "putting the guy up for Pope". He was attacked and it was pointed out that he's only had one season and a ton of personnel issues to deal with, not the least of which was his starting QB's near-deadly injury.

The Arians apologists were big on the team winning in spite of him because we won (in large part due to the stellar defense he had covering for his ass). They also couldn't understand the hate for him and lobbied for more time, but now, in hypocritical fashion, want to call for Haley's head on a pike after one season.

I wanted Arians gone. He had 5 years to right the offense. Yes, he did just enough to get by, but the defense was a HUGE part of that success. I was glad the front office finally saw it too. I even stated that there may be some growing pains in the first season of a new offense being instituted (which happens a lot across the NFL) and I was fine with that (and possibly missing the playoffs) as long as there was great progress made in season 2. I think this season will be the one where we can more accurately gauge Haley's effectiveness as an o-coordinator for this team. If the offense struggles this year, I may begin to worry, but it won't be full-scale panic or sky is falling. The good news is that Haley will have 5 years to figure it out. :thumbsup:


See, the whole "apologist" thing is what gets me.

Why on Earth would anyone have to apologize for Arians?
What did he do that even requires an apology?

Did he run over your dog or get your sister pregnant?

I don't get it.

I can't picture anyone saying something like:

"Jeez guys, I'm REAL sorry about Arians and those five winning seasons and those two Super Bowls, I really feel like dogshit about that"

Are you kidding me?

IF (and this is a huge "IF")...IF Haley can pull together an offense that can do what Arians' offenses did for five straight years and did it in exactly the same way, you'd be naming streets after him, yet Bruce Arians.gets less respect than Bin Laden

Why is that?
Can someone please explain why this man is so hated?

lloydwoodson
05-26-2013, 08:06 PM
@FanSince72

You clearly have a brilliant football mind. When New England puts up over 500 points in a season with no offensive coordinator at all as they did in 2010- could you enlighten me as to exactly how important an offensive coordinator is to the team's success?

Does the offensive coordinator deserve 100% of the credit for the team's performance or is it closer to 99%?

Why was Josh McDaniels considered one of the worst offensive minds in football after his time with Denver and St Louis but now appears to be a football genius such as yourself in his current role with the Patriots?

These are the questions only a beautiful mind like yours could answer.

Also, why do you think Todd Haley is a bad coach? Are you not impressed that Matt Cassel went to the Probowl in his offense? Do you think it's a good thing that Haley's offense scored more points than Arians offense last year with the same personnel minus a litany of injuries?

If the offense scored more points in 2012 than 2011 but the team had a worse record where does the responsibility lie for the change? Does it have anything to do with the defense allowing 14.2 ppg in 2011 but 19.6 ppg in 2012? Did the defense allow more points because they play for Arians honor?

steeltheone
05-26-2013, 08:11 PM
Fact: The 2012 Steelers scored more than the 2011 Steelers (336 to 325). Adjusting for ST and D, 2012 outscored 2011 by another TD.

Fact: The 2012 Colts outscored the 2012 Steelers by only 21 points (337 to 326) or 1.3125 points per game. Adjusting for ST and D, the Colts Outscored the Steelers by only 14 points (<1 point per game).

Fact: The 2012 Steelers allowed 87 more points than the 2011 Steelers (314 to 227).

Fact: Since 2006, every season in which the Steelers have allowed 300 or more points they have finished 9-7 or worse and missed the playoffs.

The Colts had a rookie QB ....The Colts did not have the one of the best wide receiver groups in the NFL ( as proclaimed by many Steeler fans)

Lady Steel
05-26-2013, 08:14 PM
Carson Palmer: I love Bruce Arians

Posted by Michael David Smith on May 25, 2013

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/arianspalmer.jpg?w=250

Carson Palmer hasn’t been the Cardinals’ quarterback for long, but he already knows one thing: He loves playing for head coach Bruce Arians.

Palmer gushed about Arians to Michael Silver of Yahoo! Sports, and he said he can already tell the rest of the team loves the new coach as well.

“I love the head coach,” Palmer said of Arians. “I mean, I love the head coach. He keeps it real. He already has this team wrapped around his finger. And we have some talented players in this locker room.”

Veterans like Palmer don’t often describe offseason workouts as enjoyable, but that’s the way Palmer feels in Arizona.

“When you like the coach and the guys in the locker room, and you know you can still play at a high level, and you feel like you can help take a team to a Super Bowl, and you know you’re job’s not gonna be as hard as it may have been before – it’s just fun,” Palmer said. “It’s been very fun since I’ve been here. And nobody thinks OTAs are fun.”

Nobody thinks Palmer has much of a chance to take the Cardinals to the Super Bowl, either. But Palmer thinks he and Arians are building something special together.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/25/carson-palmer-i-love-bruce-arians/



Rut-roh. Ben is gonna be jelly!

I agree with those who stated Arians is going to flop in Arizona.

steeltheone
05-26-2013, 08:14 PM
Unless Haley gets the Steelers to the Super Bowl twice, Fans will be hard pressed to say we are better without Arians.

steeltheone
05-26-2013, 08:17 PM
Rut-roh. Ben is gonna be jelly!

I agree with those who stated Arians is going to flop in Arizona.

Failing in Arizona is the norm. Whiz did a very commendable job there.

Start Tomlin in Arizona in the same situation as Whiz, he is gone by now too.

lloydwoodson
05-26-2013, 08:20 PM
The Colts had a rookie QB ....The Colts did not have the one of the best wide receiver groups in the NFL ( as proclaimed by many Steeler fans)

The Colts played the Jags and the Titans 4 times.

The Steelers played the Ravens and the Bengals 4 times.

No one was calling the Steelers receiving corps one of the best in the NFL last year. What I heard is that Wallace took the year off, and AB and Sanders couldn't hold on to the football.

Andrew Luck didn't break a rib.

The Colts were coming off a 2-14 season so there strength of schedule was very weak (They also played the Bills, Dolphins, Browns, Jets and Chiefs.)

pczach
05-26-2013, 08:59 PM
I think the mistake many are making here, is that there is no reason to say that Bruce Arians was a horrible OC. He wasn't. The Steelers won tons of games and playoff games with him running the offense. Was he perfect? Not even close. But he did get it done at a pretty high level, with what he had to operate with. Defense has gotten the majority of the salary distribution for all of Arians time here. He had horrible offensive lines to deal with, and tons of OL injuries yearly. This is a team victory or team failure, because he did what he thought he had to with the talent he had to use. Could he have done things better? Of course, but this was an organizational thing in regard to the talent. Bad OL and no dominant RB(Mendenhall had talent but couldn't stay on the field, plus the scatter brain problems). It's not like he was handed the keys to a Ferrari and ran it into a telephone pole the first time he got in it. He had a good QB and a couple good receivers, and he went with that to be his bread and butter. I'm not defending some of the play calling, and I know that Roethlisberger bailed him out at the end of games a lot. Putting a little perfume on what could have smelled like shit often. This isn't all on him. The front office and the coach were part of this.

I wasn't happy when they got rid of him, because I feel he was getting the blame for the organization not providing him with an offensive line for basically his entire time here. That being said, I think Haley is a talented offensive mind. He has had good results at times when he has had talent. He knows how to make a running game work, and believes in the running game. The problem for him is that he has never succeeded in other organizations unless he had elite talent. He could run the ball in Kansas City when they had a great OL and great running backs, but they couldn't throw the ball well, and didn't win much.

In Arizona, they were a good offensive team the year they went to the Super Bowl, but they had Kurt Warner, Larry Fitzgerald, and Anquan Boldin. They didn't run the ball well because they didn't have a great offensive line or a dominant runner. Sounds a little familiar, doesn't it.

He is now with a great franchise, and all the extra help that goes along with that. I think his offense showed some signs of what it could do last year. He will have the luxury of a young, athletic OL to work with, possible a feature RB, and some good young talent. Let's see what he can do with it. I think it could work well, but nothing is given in this league. Until he helps lead this team to championships, he will not have fulfilled his end of the bargain.

I want the guy to succeed, and I'm not going to call for his head if they don't lead the league in offense. I do think that by the second half of this year, we should be seeing some pretty effective offense. Let's hope everybody is happy come this time next year.

Buddha Bus
05-26-2013, 09:10 PM
See, the whole "apologist" thing is what gets me.

Why on Earth would anyone have to apologize for Arians?
What did he do that even requires an apology?

Did he run over your dog or get your sister pregnant?

I don't get it.

I can't picture anyone saying something like:

"Jeez guys, I'm REAL sorry about Arians and those five winning seasons and those two Super Bowls, I really feel like dogshit about that"

Are you kidding me?

IF (and this is a huge "IF")...IF Haley can pull together an offense that can do what Arians' offenses did for five straight years and did it in exactly the same way, you'd be naming streets after him, yet Bruce Arians.gets less respect than Bin Laden

Why is that?
Can someone please explain why this man is so hated?

I'll explain the apologist thing when you can explain the Pope thing. Show me where anyone said anything remotely like that. Deal?

Buddha Bus
05-26-2013, 09:12 PM
Failing in Arizona is the norm. Whiz did a very commendable job there.

Start Tomlin in Arizona in the same situation as Whiz, he is gone by now too.

Not if you are the great and all-powerful Arians.

VaDave
05-26-2013, 09:13 PM
The Cards should fire him at the first opportunity....

Buddha Bus
05-26-2013, 09:18 PM
I think the mistake many are making here, is that there is no reason to say that Bruce Arians was a horrible OC. He wasn't. The Steelers won tons of games and playoff games with him running the offense. Was he perfect? Not even close. But he did get it done at a pretty high level, with what he had to operate with. Defense has gotten the majority of the salary distribution for all of Arians time here. He had horrible offensive lines to deal with, and tons of OL injuries yearly. This is a team victory or team failure, because he did what he thought he had to with the talent he had to use. Could he have done things better? Of course, but this was an organizational thing in regard to the talent. Bad OL and no dominant RB(Mendenhall had talent but couldn't stay on the field, plus the scatter brain problems). It's not like he was handed the keys to a Ferrari and ran it into a telephone pole the first time he got in it. He had a good QB and a couple good receivers, and he went with that to be his bread and butter. I'm not defending some of the play calling, and I know that Roethlisberger bailed him out at the end of games a lot. Putting a little perfume on what could have smelled like shit often. This isn't all on him. The front office and the coach were part of this.

I wasn't happy when they got rid of him, because I feel he was getting the blame for the organization not providing him with an offensive line for basically his entire time here. That being said, I think Haley is a talented offensive mind. He has had good results at times when he has had talent. He knows how to make a running game work, and believes in the running game. The problem for him is that he has never succeeded in other organizations unless he had elite talent. He could run the ball in Kansas City when they had a great OL and great running backs, but they couldn't throw the ball well, and didn't win much.

In Arizona, they were a good offensive team the year they went to the Super Bowl, but they had Kurt Warner, Larry Fitzgerald, and Anquan Boldin. They didn't run the ball well because they didn't have a great offensive line or a dominant runner. Sounds a little familiar, doesn't it.

He is now with a great franchise, and all the extra help that goes along with that. I think his offense showed some signs of what it could do last year. He will have the luxury of a young, athletic OL to work with, possible a feature RB, and some good young talent. Let's see what he can do with it. I think it could work well, but nothing is given in this league. Until he helps lead this team to championships, he will not have fulfilled his end of the bargain.

I want the guy to succeed, and I'm not going to call for his head if they don't lead the league in offense. I do think that by the second half of this year, we should be seeing some pretty effective offense. Let's hope everybody is happy come this time next year.

That's all anyone is asking for of the Arians group..... give Haley the same amount of patience as you did Arians. To call for his job after one year is comical in the context of how long they were willing to give Arians more rope.

I know Arians had injuries to deal with as well, but it was his unwillingness at times to cater his offense to the strengths of the players he had that was so maddening. He wanted to fit the round peg in the square hole by forcing replacement players to fit his schemes even if their skill sets weren't compatible. He was very resistant to change and adjustment. To me, that doesn't make a great coordinator.

PhantomJB93
05-26-2013, 10:25 PM
I can't believe anybody actually still tries to say firing Arians was a mistake.

Yeah, we had success while Arians was the OC here. Correlation DOES NOT equal causation. We won IN SPITE of Arians. In the same way, we didn't go 8-8 because of Haley. Yeah, you can say we got rid of Arians and had our worst season in years, but it doesn't necessarily mean anything. I can just as easily say William Gay was holding our defense together all this time and our 8-8 season was a direct result of a not-so-Gay-friendly secondary.

If you don't understand why Arians gets criticized, you didn't watch the Steelers over the past several years. Horrible strategies, horrible adjustments, horrible schemes. Incredibly poor situational playcalling. Running the same screen play over and over again out of the same formation with the same personnel after it didn't work the first 3 times. Routinely going for the deep ball when all you need to extend a drive is 1-2 yards.

Haley is not the greatest OC of all time but his offense was improved in nearly every way imaginable over Arians. Before the KC game, where everything obviously fell apart, the offense was firing on all cylinders. Ben was an MVP candidate. Our horrible RB committee was somehow finding success. Third down efficiency was through the roof, partially due to Ben's greatness, probably more due to the fact Haley realized extending the drive with a short first down pass was better than going for the 50 yard TD every single play. Everything just passed the eye test. The improved offense was a big reason we won a lot of our early games and could barely be blamed for any of the losses. Everything fell apart when Ben (and others) got hurt, and ironically the defense which was weak early on picked us up, but wasn't good enough to carry us to the postseason as it was in years' past.

Arians had success somewhere else. That's great for him. It doesn't change the fact that he was holding this team back. Firing him was 100% the right decision and he needed to go. He WAS a horrible OC here. Maybe he wasn't in Indianapolis, IDK I didn't watch their games, maybe getting fired caused him to realize his mistakes and he fixed them for the Colts. All I know is he was BAD here and needed to go. Stop looking for a reason to criticize the Steelers.

lloydwoodson
05-26-2013, 11:13 PM
What Arians' groupies aren't admitting or acknowledging is that the Steelers were scoring 23.9 ppg before Ben got hurt. With the exception of that deplorable showing against the Bengals the Steelers scored 24 ppg with Ben back.

Within the next 2 seasons with Haley the Steelers will score over 400 points for the first time since Neil ODonnell as quarterback. Bank on it.

Haley will be a head coach again within 3 years and you won't have to put up with him any more.

So either enjoy Haley while he is here or hold your nose but please don't whine for the duration.

Buddha Bus
05-26-2013, 11:23 PM
Here's another thing the Arians crowd never explained either. If he was such a genius as an offensive coordinator, then why has Ben made his entire career and name on being able to extend plays and improvise to make things happen? Ben has been know to make chicken salad out of chicken shit for years now which suggests that Arians' brilliant play calls were shit and broke down to where Ben went into "sandlot mode" staying upright, scrambling, and waiting for a receiver to run around and finally get open. If Arians' playcalling was so awesome, there wouldn't be a need for Ben to do that. He would already be finding receivers open before he needed to do that. Granted, some of that was due to a porous o-line, but a lot of it was bad playcalling, an inability to recognize the shortcomings of his line personnel, and call plays to get the ball out of Ben's hands faster. I especially always loved the 3rd and 1, 5-wide empty backfield sets. A stroke of pure genius those calls were. :doh:

ricardisimo
05-26-2013, 11:36 PM
There is a good possibility that Bruce will be a decent head coach, even though he was lacking as an OC. More power to him. Oh, and good riddance.
:wave:

lloydwoodson
05-26-2013, 11:38 PM
I especially always loved the 3rd and 1, 5-wide empty backfield sets. A stroke of pure genius those calls were. :doh:

Ha! That same formation was used to end the Colts' playoff game this year. Bruce, of course, was not present at the game due to illness or his team would have won that game and probably the superbowl.

But when I saw Luck with an empty backfield on 4th and 1 I thought to myself "Bruce, you old dog! You've done it again! That's the offense I know!"

@3:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhpKDifLHTA

steeltheone
05-26-2013, 11:52 PM
You can can throw all the stats you want but the bottom line is that Bruce Arians led offense won a SB AND WENT TO ANOTHER. That is all that matters!

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-26-2013, 11:53 PM
Ha! That same formation was used to end the Colts' playoff game this year. Bruce, of course, was not present at the game due to illness or his team would have won that game and probably the superbowl.

But when I saw Luck with an empty backfield on 4th and 1 I thought to myself "Bruce, you old dog! You've done it again! That's the offense I know!"

@3:30

[/YT]

4th and 1, empty backfield and failure to convert. Yeah, I really dont miss that stuff.

Buddha Bus
05-26-2013, 11:58 PM
You can can throw all the stats you want but the bottom line is that Bruce Arians led offense won a SB AND WENT TO ANOTHER. That is all that matters!

Yep, and Trent Dilfer won a SB, so he clearly was a great QB that didn't need upgraded over. Same with Brad Johnson.

steeltheone
05-26-2013, 11:59 PM
The Colts played the Jags and the Titans 4 times.

The Steelers played the Ravens and the Bengals 4 times.

No one was calling the Steelers receiving corps one of the best in the NFL last year. What I heard is that Wallace took the year off, and AB and Sanders couldn't hold on to the football.

Andrew Luck didn't break a rib.

The Colts were coming off a 2-14 season so there strength of schedule was very weak (They also played the Bills, Dolphins, Browns, Jets and Chiefs.)

Correct,the Colts were 2-14 in 2011, The worst team in the NFL. What they did in 2012 was nothing short of spectacular, no matter who they played.

Check back to the pre season threads of 2012 season. MANY posters called our receiving core one, if not the best in the NFL.

Buddha Bus
05-27-2013, 12:07 AM
Correct,the Colts were 2-14 in 2011, The worst team in the NFL. What they did in 2012 was nothing short of spectacular, no matter who they played.

Check back to the pre season threads of 2012 season. MANY posters called our receiving core one, if not the best in the NFL.

And the Colts were tanking it in 2011 to win the Andrew Luck sweepstakes.

What they did in 2012 was begin playing professional football again, coupled with the motivation of a sick head coach in Chuck Pagano who inspired them. There was no inspiration like that in 2011.

As far as our receiving corps, no one expected that Mike Wallace would be on vacation all year and sitting on his hands waiting for a contract from another team. People figured he would play lights out in his contract year to attract suitors. Wallace gambled that he didn't need to do that and won, getting his huge contract from Miami.

The receiving corps also dropped a lot of balls (not the fault of Haley) and had to deal with playing with 3 different QBs during the season, 2 of which were well past their prime. All of that along with learning a new system to boot. Of course there would be some difficulties stemming from that.

lloydwoodson
05-27-2013, 12:11 AM
You can can throw all the stats you want but the bottom line is that Bruce Arians led offense won a SB AND WENT TO ANOTHER. That is all that matters!

Couple things:

1. Haley has also gone to the superbowl as an offensive coordinator.

2. Arians called a poor game in superbowl XLIII. Plays that stand out are the 3rd and goal shotgun draw from the 4 yard line for Roethlisberger in the 1st, and the game winning throw. The Steelers won the game on a play that was the mirror image from the previous play. Roethlisberger threaded the ball through triple coverage. TRIPLE COVERAGE!!!

Yeah, the Steelers couldn't have done it without Arians.

3. Arians won with Whisenhunt's players.

4. Arians gameplan in Superbowl XLV was completely focused on Mike Wallace while neglecting Heath Miller. Wallace had 9 catches while Miller had 2 catches for 12 yards and was wide open on the final play of the game.

5. Arians' best year was in 2007 his first year. Other defenses figured out exactly what he was doing after that and he never adjusted. Wide receiver screen passes are so 2007.

If you excel at your job in your first year and then underperform for the next 4 your bosses aren't going to like you much.

lloydwoodson
05-27-2013, 12:15 AM
And the Colts were tanking it in 2011 to win the Andrew Luck sweepstakes.

What they did in 2012 was begin playing professional football again, coupled with the motivation of a sick head coach in Chuck Pagano who inspired them. There was no inspiration like that in 2011.

As far as our receiving corps, no one expected that Mike Wallace would be on vacation all year and sitting on his hands waiting for a contract from another team. People figured he would play lights out in his contract year to attract suitors. Wallace gambled that he didn't need to do that and won, getting his huge contract from Miami.

The receiving corps also dropped a lot of balls (not the fault of Haley) and had to deal with playing with 3 different QBs during the season, 2 of which were well past their prime. All of that along with learning a new system to boot. Of course there would be some difficulties stemming from that.

Thank you for saying this so I didn't have to... not that I won't anyways. :rofl:

Buddha Bus
05-27-2013, 12:18 AM
Thank you for saying this so I didn't have to... not that I won't anyways. :rofl:



:drink:

lloydwoodson
05-27-2013, 12:29 AM
I am going with a new tactic. All these Arians lovers for whatever reason kept talking about Superbowl XL proving his competency. I am going to fight fire with fire.

The Steelers organization has 6 Superbowl Championships, 8 AFC Championships, 561 wins and 33 playoff wins. The Steelers organization is one of the most respected in any major sport and is a benchmark for success in the NFL. No organization in the NFL is run more professionally, competitively or competently. Based on poor offensive results the Steelers organization decided it needed a change of offensive coordinator based on empirical knowledge derived from decades of excellence... but what do they know... you've got a beer.

:tt03:

Buddha Bus
05-27-2013, 12:36 AM
I am going with a new tactic. All these Arians lovers for whatever reason kept talking about Superbowl XL proving his competency. I am going to fight fire with fire.

The Steelers organization has 6 Superbowl Championships, 8 AFC Championships, 561 wins and 33 playoff wins. The Steelers organization is one of the most respected in any major sport and is a benchmark for success in the NFL. No organization in the NFL is run more professionally, competitively or competently. Based on poor offensive results the Steelers organization decided it needed a change of offensive coordinator based on empirical knowledge derived from decades of excellence... but what do they know... you've got a beer.

:tt03:

Bravo! :applaudit:

Not only the empirical knowledge derived from decades of excellence, but the 5 years of inconsistent offensive performance in specific during Arians' reign as OC. Arians may have one SB under his belt, but the Rooney family has 6.

A beer? More like a lot of beer. :alcoholic

MACH1
05-27-2013, 01:06 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lxZNM0Lf6sw/TyCYkBktTDI/AAAAAAAABGQ/pvMNgD5xAJ0/s1600/BA2.jpg

Bayz101
05-27-2013, 02:30 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lxZNM0Lf6sw/TyCYkBktTDI/AAAAAAAABGQ/pvMNgD5xAJ0/s1600/BA2.jpg

"Mumble into headset, see what they come up with."

:toofunny:

VaDave
05-27-2013, 06:04 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lxZNM0Lf6sw/TyCYkBktTDI/AAAAAAAABGQ/pvMNgD5xAJ0/s1600/BA2.jpg

Classic.:hatsoff:

pczach
05-27-2013, 07:38 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lxZNM0Lf6sw/TyCYkBktTDI/AAAAAAAABGQ/pvMNgD5xAJ0/s1600/BA2.jpg

The incredible amount of time and effort that went into that tells me all I need to know about your feelings on Arians' abilities as an OC. I don't have to even look at the words! :toofunny:

The tendencies he had for calling the same plays in the same situations was classic, I know. Bad plays.

It's so funny because that's exactly how many now look at what Haley did last year. He ran the ball so often on first down with no success that it scared the crap out of many who watched it. That's all that most of this fear is about with the Haley haters. They saw Arians continue to do things the same way, even though they didn't work, but the team won anyway. Haley seems to run every single time on first down for little or no gain, and throws short passes that don't get first downs. Here's the big one: The team didn't win. I think that's what's got the fans spooked. He hasn't won yet. If he does, and I think he will, everything will be forgotten and Steeler life will go on. I think it's that simple. The fear that no matter how bad it got at times, the team found a way to win. The fear that by changing what they believed worked well enough, even if not that well, the winning will stop.

I am NOT a trained psychologist, but I think I understand the thinking.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRJ8b-lmk2dHbZIhttjwX74gXB-HENzf4HaF5fmdG3ju0kWJ0glRA

NSMaster56
05-27-2013, 08:33 AM
The Colts had a rookie QB ....The Colts did not have the one of the best wide receiver groups in the NFL ( as proclaimed by many Steeler fans)

So?

Unless Haley gets the Steelers to the Super Bowl twice, Fans will be hard pressed to say we are better without Arians.

Unless Bruce Gradkowski helps the Steelers to the Super Bowl twice as a backup, fans will be hard pressed to say we are better without Chaz Batch. :chuckle:

Check back to the pre season threads of 2012 season. MANY posters called our receiving core one, if not the best in the NFL.

MANY posters can be foolish homers (myself included).

NSMaster56
05-27-2013, 08:35 AM
You can can throw all the stats you want but the bottom line is that Bruce Arians led offense won a SB AND WENT TO ANOTHER. That is all that matters!

It's more accurate to say that a team with Bruce Arians as the OC and a GREAT Defense won a SB and went to another.

If the 2012 Steelers had only allowed 223 points (as in 2008) or 232 points (as in 2010) instead of 314 they would have been a lot more likely to make another SB run regardless of the OC.

FanSince72
05-27-2013, 09:03 AM
You can can throw all the stats you want but the bottom line is that Bruce Arians led offense won a SB AND WENT TO ANOTHER. That is all that matters!

Agreed.

BA was not typical in many respects and that's what I liked about him.
He had a consistently injured O-line to deal with and a QB who simply wasn't happy standing still. But rather than trying to make all of that fit into some game plan, he did the opposite and essentially played each game in real time.

I've often said that BA called a play more as a suggestion rather than some absolute requirement because he knew that the line was not stable and that Ben had an eye for seeing things develop and I think he let things flow along those lines. He wasn't one of these OC's who ran down some prepared list of plays whether the situation called for it or not and he didn't run plays because "they worked in practice" or because they worked against this opponent the last time they met.

BA's strength was his ability to go with the flow and to call plays (or make suggestions if you like) that dealt with the game as it was actually happening instead of in some theoretical world of whiteboards and clever schemes. BA basically played by the seat of his pants as does Ben and that's why they did so well together.

They didn't get much in the way of style points and in many cases things looked flat-out ugly. But BA focused on the only thing that matters and that was to get the ball over the goal line more often that the other guys and I think he did that very well. Not pretty or statistically impressive, but effectively and consistently enough to produce the wins associated with his tenure.

Stats and style points don't mean beans.
"W's" are all that matters and BA had quite a collection of those.

Buddha Bus
05-27-2013, 09:07 AM
Agreed.

BA was not typical in many respects and that's what I liked about him.
He had a consistently injured O-line to deal with and a QB who simply wasn't happy standing still. But rather than trying to make all of that fit into some game plan, he did the opposite and essentially played each game in real time.

I've often said that BA called a play more as a suggestion rather than some absolute requirement because he knew that the line was not stable and that Ben had an eye for seeing things develop and I think he let things flow along those lines. He wasn't one of these OC's who ran down some prepared list of plays whether the situation called for it or not and he didn't run plays because "they worked in practice" or because they worked against this opponent the last time they met.

BA's strength was his ability to go with the flow and to call plays (or make suggestions if you like) that dealt with the game as it was actually happening instead of in some theoretical world of whiteboards and clever schemes. BA basically played by the seat of his pants as does Ben and that's why they did so well together.

They didn't get much in the way of style points and in many cases things looked rather ugly. But BA focused on the only thing that matters and that was to get the ball over the goal line more often that the other guys and I think he did that very well. Not pretty or statistically impressive, but effectively and consistently enough to produce the wins associated with his tenure.

Stats and style points don't mean beans.
"W's" are all that matters and BA had quite a collection of those.

Go with the flow!?!? :rofl:

Like he did against the Browns back in 2009 throwing the ball in high winds and cold weather over and over even though it wasn't working? He absolutely ignored the ground game which would have been the better plan in those conditions, but I guess he outsmarted everyone by losing 13-6. They never saw it coming.

You're right. What were we thinking? :doh:

teegre
05-27-2013, 09:11 AM
Giving Bruce Arians the credit for XLVIII is just as sensible as giving the long-snapper all of the credit.

It was the defense and BB.

Everyone else was just along for the ride.

FanSince72
05-27-2013, 09:16 AM
Go with the flow!?!? :rofl:

Like he did against the Browns back in 2009 throwing the ball in high winds and cold weather over and over even though it wasn't working? He absolutely ignored the ground game which would have been the better plan in those conditions, but I guess he outsmarted everyone by losing 13-6.

You're right. What were we thinking? :doh:

ONE game from four years ago? :banging:

Really?

What, and Chuck Noll never called a bad game?
Or (genuflecting) Dick LeBeau?

Please...

10-6
12-4
9-7 (must have been that Cleveland game)
12-4
12-4

And let's not forget the two SB's.

If Haley even comes close to that record, I'll personally wash his car every week for a year (and I'll be 59 by then).

FanSince72
05-27-2013, 09:21 AM
Giving Bruce Arians the credit for XLVIII is just as sensible as giving the long-snapper all of the credit.

It was the defense and BB.

Everyone else was just along for the ride.

Wait! Don't tell me!
You're the Chairman of the (genuflecting) Dick LeBeau statue committee?

Buddha Bus
05-27-2013, 09:23 AM
ONE game from four years ago? :banging:

Really?

What, and Chuck Noll never called a bad game?
Or (genuflecting) Dick LeBeau?

Please...

10-6
12-4
9-7 (must have been that Cleveland game)
12-4
12-4

And let's not forget the two SB's.

If Haley even comes close to that record, I'll personally wash his car every week for a year (and I'll be 59 by then).


No, one example. He's had quite a few games over the years where he was awful and made no adjustments. The Browns game just sticks out as the most obvious sore thumb. Sometimes Ben and the defense were able to overcome his ignorance, and sometimes not.

I know it was a rare occurrence to think to myself, "wow, Bruce actually called a really good game there". I gave him credit when he did, but it wasn't very often. Saying he was 50/50 on good to bad game calling would be very generous.

FanSince72
05-27-2013, 09:37 AM
No, one example. He's had quite a few games over the years where he was awful and made no adjustments. The Browns game just sticks out as the most obvious sore thumb. Sometimes Ben and the defense were able to overcome his ignorance, and sometimes not.

I know it was a rare occurrence to think to myself, "wow, Bruce actually called a really good game there". I gave him credit when he did, but it wasn't very often. Saying he was 50/50 on good to bad game calling would be very generous.

Not 50/50 but more like 2 to 1.
55 wins 25 losses (not counting post season).

That may not be HOF stuff, but it sure as hell doesn't suck either.

Buddha Bus
05-27-2013, 09:42 AM
Not 50/50 but more like 2 to 1.
55 wins 25 losses (not counting post season).

That may not be HOF stuff, but it sure as hell doesn't suck either.

I prefer to give as much credit to the water boys. Without their superior hydration contributions to the team, we would have never had that kind of record.

The record is not a good indicator of his playcalling ability. The offensive stats that you so readily throw away would be a better indicator. There are many factors that would be worth looking at game by game to determine the reason why we won or lost, including how well the other teams' players and coaches performed as well as our own. To just look at the win-loss record would be an oversimplified way of making your argument.

teegre
05-27-2013, 09:50 AM
Wait! Don't tell me!
You're the Chairman of the (genuflecting) Dick LeBeau statue committee?

No... and even if I was, that's irrelevant.

That defense in 2008 was insanely good. Even people who despise LeBeau agree to that.

Buddha Bus
05-27-2013, 09:57 AM
No... and even if I was, that's irrelevant.

That defense in 2008 was insanely good. Even people who despise LeBeau agree to that.

Anyone who would despise LeBeau is clearly touched in the head and has a reality detachment.

FanSince72
05-27-2013, 10:15 AM
No... and even if I was, that's irrelevant.

That defense in 2008 was insanely good. Even people who despise LeBeau agree to that.

I don't despise LeBeau (quite the contrary, actually).
I just think he's lost a step and isn't responding to the changes in the game today as much or as well as he used to.

Let's face it, everyone's abilities deteriorate over time.

Buddha Bus
05-27-2013, 10:19 AM
I don't despise LeBeau (quite the contrary, actually).
I just think he's lost a step and isn't responding to the changes in the game today as much or as well as he used to.

Let's face it, everyone's abilities deteriorate over time.

True, but I think LeBeau still has life left in him as a D-coordinator. The proof is in the defensive rankings every year. Granted, there are times he looks to have lost a step, but sometimes I think it's the personnel failing him more than his schemes.

It would be nice to see some fresh blood at the D-coordinator position soon (Keith Butler), but I'm not opposed to LeBeau sticking around until he's ready to go. He's earned that and is still getting results.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-27-2013, 10:26 AM
Correct,the Colts were 2-14 in 2011, The worst team in the NFL. What they did in 2012 was nothing short of spectacular, no matter who they played.
.

in 2010 the Colts had a healthy Peyton Manning, were 10-6, finished 1st in the AFC South and were ranked #4 in points scored and #23 in points allowed.

In 2011, the Colts went with Curtis Painter, Dan Orlovsky and whoever else they had, to 2-14.

So in 2012, they get a defensive head coach, possibly the best QB prospect to come along in 10 years, several talented draft picks and an easy schedule. Tough for me to say the Colts success was Arians driven.

Lets just say I am happy he is in the desert and hope he does well, but not against us. We will see what can be done with the great offensive talent he has amassed.

The_Joker
05-27-2013, 10:29 AM
Would you rather have Haley or him?

Todd.

FanSince72
05-27-2013, 10:32 AM
True, but I think LeBeau still has life left in him as a D-coordinator. The proof is in the defensive rankings every year. Granted, there are times he looks to have lost a step, but sometimes I think it's the personnel failing him more than his schemes.

It would be nice to see some fresh blood at the D-coordinator position soon (Keith Butler), but I'm not opposed to LeBeau sticking around until he's ready to go. He's earned that and is still getting results.

The reason I say he's lost a step is his use (or misuse) of Polamalu.

Polamalu is a great athlete to be sure, but I can't honestly say he's been as effective as he is entertaining. I think that has more to do with LeBeau than Troy's over-enthusiastic style of play. I've always felt that LeBeau looked at Troy the way a cave man might look at a cell phone - he knows there's something really different about this thing but he'd be damned if he knew what it was.

I think other (younger) DC's would have homed in on Troy's specific strengths and weaknesses and designed a more specific role for him instead of what he's been doing which, to me, has been a lot of running around but not a lot of play-stopping. I see that too with CB's and LB's used in pass coverage - they're "there" but they don't seem to have that "pop" that makes them special.
Back when the game was more of a running game and when two really quick pass-rushers (or a quick SS) were often all you needed to mess up another team's passing game, LeBeau's defenses shined.

But as the game has become quicker and passing has become the dominant offensive philosophy, LeBeau seems stuck in a more "Knuckle-dragger" style of brute force and blitzes instead of adopting a more subtle and tactical type of gameplan.

I agree that LeBeau may still have some tricks left, but at this stage of his career I think it's going to take more than desire and a few tricks to meet the challenges of today's game. What needs to be done will take some time and that's where I wonder if he has enough left in the tank to change his overall philosophy and then commit to changes that may take a few seasons to fully implement.

Everyone has their moment and just I think LeBeau's moment has passed. I love what he's done and I respect the hell out of him but life moves on.

lloydwoodson
05-27-2013, 10:42 AM
I don't despise LeBeau (quite the contrary, actually).
I just think he's lost a step and isn't responding to the changes in the game today as much or as well as he used to.

Let's face it, everyone's abilities deteriorate over time.

Lebeau has 2 Superbowl championships to Arians 1. Lebeau is twice the coordinator Arians is by your own logic. Lebeau has had more wins than Arians by far.

Lebeau even went to the Superbowl as DC with the Bengals in 1988. Sure, the Bengals were driven by their league best offense and not middle of the pack defense but I'm going to abandon reason and judgement and use the FanSince72 school of thought...

Even though the Bengals were offensive driven Lebeau deserves full credit for taking the Bengals to the Superbowl because the best way to measure a coordinator's value is team record.

Buddha Bus
05-27-2013, 10:44 AM
The reason I say he's lost a step is his use (or misuse) of Polamalu.

Polamalu is a great athlete to be sure, but I can't honestly say he's been as effective as he is entertaining. I think that has more to do with LeBeau than Troy's over-enthusiastic style of play. I've always felt that LeBeau looked at Troy the way a cave man might look at a cell phone - he knows there's something really different about this thing but he'd be damned if he knew what it was.

I think other (younger) DC's would have homed in on Troy's specific strengths and weaknesses and designed a more specific role for him instead of what he's been doing which, to me, has been a lot of running around but not a lot of play-stopping. I see that too with CB's and LB's used in pass coverage - they're "there" but they don't seem to have that "pop" that makes them special.
Back when the game was more of a running game and when two really quick pass-rushers (or a quick SS) were often all you needed to mess up another team's passing game, LeBeau's defenses shined.

But as the game has become quicker and passing has become the dominant offensive philosophy, LeBeau seems stuck in a more "Knuckle-dragger" style of brute force and blitzes instead of adopting a more subtle and tactical type of gameplan.

I agree that LeBeau may still have some tricks left, but at this stage of his career I think it's going to take more than desire and a few tricks to meet the challenges of today's game. What needs to be done will take some time and that's where I wonder if he has enough left in the tank to change his overall philosophy and then commit to changes that may take a few seasons to fully implement.

Everyone has their moment and just I think LeBeau's moment has passed. I love what he's done and I respect the hell out of him but life moves on.

Not sure why you would defend Arians so vigorously, but yearn for LeBeau to retire. DL has had top 5 defenses for the majority of his tenure with the Steelers, something that could never be said for Arians. He continues to field top tier defenses year in and year out. You can't argue with those results.

I agree that Polamalu, at this stage of his career, should have a more structured role in the defense now that he getting older, slower, and more often injured. LeBeau should try to find a way to better utilize him to the strengths he has left and to protect him more. Troy isn't capable of being the "freelancer" that he used to be any longer. He needs a defined role.

I don't think LeBeau's stuck in a "knuckle-dragger" philosophy. I just think with the drop off in play of Woodley as well as his and Harrison's repeated injuries, the pass rush hasn't been as effective as in years past which, in turn, hurts a secondary that was never designed to cover as long as they need to these days. If we can get a return to form of the Steelers' linebacking corps and get pressure again, the secondary will be fine. It looks as though they are drafting faster DB personnel now which indicates a change of philosophy in the secondary, but it will take some time to implement that philosophy and integrate the personnel into it.

Till then, we need to hope Woodley gets back on track, Worilds stays healthy and provides a boost opposite him, and Jarvis Jones is the real deal.

lloydwoodson
05-27-2013, 10:54 AM
@FanSince72

Here is what Polamalu thinks of Lebeau:

"There's no question that he is the greatest coach of all time," Polamalu said, sounding as definite as a very soft-spoken guy can be, "and there's no question to me that he is the epitome of what a Hall-of-Famer should be. You're talking about a guy who played in the NFL and was very successful, with 63 interceptions - he reminds us of that all the time (laughs). He had the most consecutive starts at cornerback - over 100 games. He's been a special-teams coach, a coordinator, and a head coach. He's been part of the game longer than anybody who didn't own a team. So, to me, he's the most deserving guy ever, and the Hall of Fame people are lucky to have him as part of it."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Troy-Polamalu-runs-silent-and-deep?urn=nfl,255034

So apparently Troy thinks Lebeau is the greatest coach of all time. But what does Troy know? He is only a 2 time Superbowl winner, former defensive player of the year, 7 time Probowler, 5 time All-Pro, member of the 2000s all-decade team and Madden cover recipient!

Logic would dictate that Troy feels he was used appropriately in Lebeau's defense. Troy has also acknowledged that his role in the defense has changed. Lebeau has stated that Timmons is being allowed some of Polamalu's past freedom. The complaints you are making have already been addressed.

FanSince72
05-27-2013, 11:04 AM
Not sure why you would defend Arians so vigorously, but yearn for LeBeau to retire. DL has had top 5 defenses for the majority of his tenure with the Steelers, something that could never be said for Arians. He continues to field top tier defenses year in and year out. You can't argue with those results.

I agree that Polamalu, at this stage of his career, should have a more structured role in the defense now that he getting older, slower, and more often injured. LeBeau should try to find a way to better utilize him to the strengths he has left and to protect him more. Troy isn't capable of being the "freelancer" that he used to be any longer. He needs a defined role.

I don't think LeBEau's stuck in a "knuckle-dragger" philosophy. I just think with the drop off in play of Woodley as well as his and Harrison's repeated injuries, the pass rush hasn't been as effective as in years past which, in turn, hurts a secondary that was never designed to cover as long as they need to these days. If we can get a return to form of the Steelers' linebacking corps and get pressure again, the secondary will be fine. It looks as though they are drafting faster DB personnel now which indicates a change of philosophy in the secondary, but it will take some time to implement that philosophy and integrate the personnel into it.

Till then, we need to hope Woodley gets back on track, Worilds stays healthy and provides a boost opposite him, and Jarvis Jones is the real deal.

Let me answer this way:

Last year, LeBeau's defense was ranked Number 1 overall...

Now deep down inside, do you REALLY believe that was true?

Everyone seems to rally around some statistical "proof" that LeBeau's D is "Number One" when we all know that was far from the case.

A better stat (if you really want to categorize it) might be how did our defense rank when the game was on the line or when we HAD to keep an opponent from scoring? If you look at it that way, the "Number One" thing disappears completely.

Sure, maybe on paper we were #1, but we were far from it when it counted and that's not a LeBeau defense - at least not like the one's I remember. We USED TO have defenses like that where play to play stats didn't matter but big plays at crunch time were something to be counted upon and so the rest didn't matter. But lately we've been just the opposite - great stats, no crunch.

There was a time when we'd talk about our D in terms of some great play or series that turned the course of a game or a season and I don't even remember (nor did I care) what "Rank" we ended the season with because I knew that when it had to get done, we'd just do it.

But nowadays, we talk about rank as if it meant something because we know that the D on the field is nowhere near as good as it once was and we point to statistics instead of great plays to somehow make ourselves feel better.

I'd rather have the great plays and be ranked #10 than to have a #1 ranking but nothing else when it counts.

pczach
05-27-2013, 11:10 AM
A few years back, James Harrison said something along the lines of "Everything I am and everything I've accomplished is because of Dick LeBeau." That's incredible praise from multiple HOF caliber players. There have been many others that feel the same way. The guy knows how to put players in position to succeed. His schemes still work. I don't think LeBeau has anything to do with this discussion, but I also don't think he has been anywhere near a problem for this team. Clearly, he has consistently put great defenses on the field capable of winning games and of championship quality.

I don't think he ever stops evolving either. He has been using much more man coverage than he ever did even a few years back. The guy can still adapt and thrive while leading young men without having to beat them into submission or stroke his own ego. They follow him without question because he has earned that respect, He has a depth of knowledge that is unparalleled, he played the game at a HOF level, and they flat out love the man. I can't think of anyone else in the NFL that is thought of in this way. LeBeau is the man.

End of transmission.

SteelersCanada
05-27-2013, 11:19 AM
We'll see how he does in the mess over in Arizona with Carson Palmer as his Quarterback and not Andrew Luck.

With the third overall selection in the 2014 NFL Draft, the Arizona Cardinals select ...

lloydwoodson
05-27-2013, 12:33 PM
Let me answer this way:

Last year, LeBeau's defense was ranked Number 1 overall...

Now deep down inside, do you REALLY believe that was true?

Everyone seems to rally around some statistical "proof" that LeBeau's D is "Number One" when we all know that was far from the case.

A better stat (if you really want to categorize it) might be how did our defense rank when the game was on the line or when we HAD to keep an opponent from scoring? If you look at it that way, the "Number One" thing disappears completely.

Sure, maybe on paper we were #1, but we were far from it when it counted and that's not a LeBeau defense - at least not like the one's I remember. We USED TO have defenses like that where play to play stats didn't matter but big plays at crunch time were something to be counted upon and so the rest didn't matter. But lately we've been just the opposite - great stats, no crunch.

There was a time when we'd talk about our D in terms of some great play or series that turned the course of a game or a season and I don't even remember (nor did I care) what "Rank" we ended the season with because I knew that when it had to get done, we'd just do it.

But nowadays, we talk about rank as if it meant something because we know that the D on the field is nowhere near as good as it once was and we point to statistics instead of great plays to somehow make ourselves feel better.

I'd rather have the great plays and be ranked #10 than to have a #1 ranking but nothing else when it counts.

First of all, the defense was 6th in points allowed not first.

Secondly, no one has said this defense was better than the 2008 defense or even close because nobody thinks that.

Thirdly, the defense held the other team to 20 or fewer points in 11 games. If the offense could consistently score more than 20 points a game the Steelers would have been in the playoffs.

Fourth, in games like the Tennessee loss, Dallas loss and Cincinatti loss costly turnovers at crucial times were the deciding factor. In the San Diego loss the defense had field position so bad so often that it is hard to think of another game where the field position was as bad.

Fifth, the defense has been the backbone of this team for years. Nobody talks about the "high-flying" Steelers offense. There is no "Greatest Show on Earth." The casual fan thinks of defense when they think of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Despite Roethlisberger having been given carte blanche in the Arians era nothing has changed- it is still a defensive football team.

Lastly, all of these points are valid and the majority of posters on this forum acknowledge them. The only holdouts from an honest understanding of what this football team is are the homers with some sort of mancrush on Roethlisberger who believe the 20th ranked offenses dragged the 1st ranked defenses reluctantly to championships.

Millers the sh!t
05-27-2013, 12:58 PM
My honest prediction: before the end of the season Bruce arians will end up hospitalized with a stroke or heart attack brought on by the stress of coaching mixed with being a fat body.

SteelBlaze1
05-27-2013, 01:46 PM
I have read through most of the posts here and I admit that I was very happy to see him go, but you have to say, he did a great job with the Colts last year. A lot better than I expected.

I would think that he will do well with Arizona because I think Carson will be a much better option for Larry than the assortment of guys they had for quarterback last year.

steeltheone
05-27-2013, 03:39 PM
Yep, and Trent Dilfer won a SB, so he clearly was a great QB that didn't need upgraded over. Same with Brad Johnson.

Haley is working with primarily the same players as Arians plus a much better QB ( experience)

lloydwoodson
05-27-2013, 07:07 PM
My honest prediction: before the end of the season Bruce arians will end up hospitalized with a stroke or heart attack brought on by the stress of coaching mixed with being a fat body.

That was pretty funny. :chuckle:

Fire Arians
05-27-2013, 07:09 PM
Fire Arians! :tt03:

teegre
05-27-2013, 07:56 PM
Haley is working with primarily the same players as Arians plus a much better QB ( experience)

And...?

The Steelers were 6-3 before BB got injured, and more importantly, BB was a legitimate MVP candidate... as were the Steelers being talked about as SuperBowl contenders.

Buddha Bus
05-28-2013, 03:30 AM
Haley is working with primarily the same players as Arians plus a much better QB ( experience)

And the price of coffee in Bolivia is outrageous.

What the hell does this have to do with any of the statements I've made?:huh:

VaDave
05-28-2013, 07:04 AM
And the price of coffee in Bolivia is outrageous.

What the hell does this have to do with any of the statements I've made?:huh:

And tea in China......


Arians no more or less has been a mediocre coach with mediocre results for most of his 30yr+ career. Sadly, unless the winds of fortunes change, he's been dealt only 3 cards ( pardon the pun) in the finals of a 5 card stud tourney and his success potential in Arizona is about zip.

This hire reminds me of the Steeler's hiring of Mike Nixon as a transitional coach back in the 60s. At the time we had a bunch of aging vets, and not a great stable of young players, and or draft picks to fill the gaps, so they hired a "Good Guy". Nixon had been an assistant coach with the team since 1960, but was promoted when Buddy Parker left following the 1964 season. In reality, he had no chance for success, and posted his one and only season @ 2-12.

The Steelers hired what they thought was a Lombardi clone in Bill Austin in 67, but after the 68 season, it was obvious he wasn't much of an improvement over Nixon. Next up was Chuck Noll, and everybody know how that turned out.

Millers the sh!t
05-28-2013, 07:29 AM
And tea in China......


Arians no more or less has been a mediocre coach with mediocre results for most of his 30yr+ career. Sadly, unless the winds of fortunes change, he's been dealt only 3 cards ( pardon the pun) in the finals of a 5 card stud tourney and his success potential in Arizona is about zip.

This hire reminds me of the Steeler's hiring of Mike Nixon as a transitional coach back in the 60s. At the time we had a bunch of aging vets, and not a great stable of young players, and or draft picks to fill the gaps, so they hired a "Good Guy". Nixon had been an assistant coach with the team since 1960, but was promoted when Buddy Parker left following the 1964 season. In reality, he had no chance for success, and posted his one and only season @ 2-12.

The Steelers hired what they thought was a Lombardi clone in Bill Austin in 67, but after the 68 season, it was obvious he wasn't much of an improvement over Nixon. Next up was Chuck Noll, and everybody know how that turned out.

Chuck Noll? Tell me more!

VaDave
05-28-2013, 08:30 AM
LOL!! You're a nut case!!

FanSince72
05-28-2013, 08:40 AM
@FanSince72

Here is what Polamalu thinks of Lebeau:

"There's no question that he is the greatest coach of all time," Polamalu said, sounding as definite as a very soft-spoken guy can be, "and there's no question to me that he is the epitome of what a Hall-of-Famer should be. You're talking about a guy who played in the NFL and was very successful, with 63 interceptions - he reminds us of that all the time (laughs). He had the most consecutive starts at cornerback - over 100 games. He's been a special-teams coach, a coordinator, and a head coach. He's been part of the game longer than anybody who didn't own a team. So, to me, he's the most deserving guy ever, and the Hall of Fame people are lucky to have him as part of it."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Troy-Polamalu-runs-silent-and-deep?urn=nfl,255034

So apparently Troy thinks Lebeau is the greatest coach of all time. But what does Troy know? He is only a 2 time Superbowl winner, former defensive player of the year, 7 time Probowler, 5 time All-Pro, member of the 2000s all-decade team and Madden cover recipient!

Logic would dictate that Troy feels he was used appropriately in Lebeau's defense. Troy has also acknowledged that his role in the defense has changed. Lebeau has stated that Timmons is being allowed some of Polamalu's past freedom. The complaints you are making have already been addressed.



I'm not saying that Troy is 100% wrong, but since LeBeau has made Polamalu the star and centerpiece of his show for as long as Troy has been here, do you really think that he would say anything bad about him?

FanSince72
05-28-2013, 08:50 AM
First of all, the defense was 6th in points allowed not first.

Secondly, no one has said this defense was better than the 2008 defense or even close because nobody thinks that.

Thirdly, the defense held the other team to 20 or fewer points in 11 games. If the offense could consistently score more than 20 points a game the Steelers would have been in the playoffs.

Fourth, in games like the Tennessee loss, Dallas loss and Cincinatti loss costly turnovers at crucial times were the deciding factor. In the San Diego loss the defense had field position so bad so often that it is hard to think of another game where the field position was as bad.

Fifth, the defense has been the backbone of this team for years. Nobody talks about the "high-flying" Steelers offense. There is no "Greatest Show on Earth." The casual fan thinks of defense when they think of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Despite Roethlisberger having been given carte blanche in the Arians era nothing has changed- it is still a defensive football team.

Lastly, all of these points are valid and the majority of posters on this forum acknowledge them. The only holdouts from an honest understanding of what this football team is are the homers with some sort of mancrush on Roethlisberger who believe the 20th ranked offenses dragged the 1st ranked defenses reluctantly to championships.

LeBeau's defenses may be all of what you say they are but one thing has changed significantly over the last few years and that is that they have not been able to close the deal as they did in the past. It isn't about how many points per game they allow but rather it's about WHEN they allow those points.

There was a time when we had a lead - even a small lead - that I would just assume that the defense would take care of the rest but that's not the case anymore. Lately, unless we're up by three scores, I simply don't feel confident in our defense being able to hold a lead late in the game and that's something that NEVER entered my mind in years past.

There was a time when, for example, if we had a team in a 3rd and 9 situation I'd actually get up and fix a snack or maybe go outside and have a smoke because I'd just assume that the next play would be a punt followed by a bunch of commercials.
But lately, in the same 3rd and 9 situation, I find myself hoping that we can somehow keep them from getting a First Down and more often than not my hopes are dashed.

THAT is what's different now - that inability to get it done when it needs to get done and the stats don't reflect that.

VaDave
05-28-2013, 08:56 AM
LeBeau, has a fairly long track record of developing solid defenses dating back to his days with the Eagles in the Jaworski era. He has earned the respect of most of the players in the NFL, his Head Coach, the ownership of the best football team in the league, as well as the media. Then only people that don't seem to be overly impressed, are Steeler fans. Good figure.

BTW, the best Arians did, besides one Superbowl ring as an OC, was one winning record as a head coach at Temple. It's pretty hard to make any sort of a valid comparison that these two coaches that hold water..

steeltheone
05-28-2013, 09:26 AM
And...?

The Steelers were 6-3 before BB got injured, and more importantly, BB was a legitimate MVP candidate... as were the Steelers being talked about as SuperBowl contenders.

I agree with what you are saying the Steelers were 6-3 and BR7 looked great, but I stand by my original statement, until we accomplish something with Haley at the helm it really doesn't matter.

I'm not saying we can't and Haley might end up being better, but until he reaches the big game, stats, pro bowls don't equal Arians success.

lloydwoodson
05-28-2013, 10:38 AM
LeBeau's defenses may be all of what you say they are but one thing has changed significantly over the last few years and that is that they have not been able to close the deal as they did in the past. It isn't about how many points per game they allow but rather it's about WHEN they allow those points.

There was a time when we had a lead - even a small lead - that I would just assume that the defense would take care of the rest but that's not the case anymore. Lately, unless we're up by three scores, I simply don't feel confident in our defense being able to hold a lead late in the game and that's something that NEVER entered my mind in years past.

There was a time when, for example, if we had a team in a 3rd and 9 situation I'd actually get up and fix a snack or maybe go outside and have a smoke because I'd just assume that the next play would be a punt followed by a bunch of commercials.
But lately, in the same 3rd and 9 situation, I find myself hoping that we can somehow keep them from getting a First Down and more often than not my hopes are dashed.

THAT is what's different now - that inability to get it done when it needs to get done and the stats don't reflect that.

So your problem with the defense is that they have been bailing out the offense for years and now that they are older and often injured they can't put the team on their back and carry the offense... and this is no reflection on the offense.

Clearly you aren't a fan of defensive football. There is no way I leave the room on 3rd and 9 because that is the chance I would be able to see Harrison blow up the quarterback.

Since you're not a fan of Lebeau and seem to be a fan of Arians... just when do you think Arians will be elected to the Hall of Fame? :rofl:

steeltheone
05-28-2013, 11:14 AM
We'll see how he does in the mess over in Arizona with Carson Palmer as his Quarterback and not Andrew Luck.

With the third overall selection in the 2014 NFL Draft, the Arizona Cardinals select ...

You can say that about a Coach on any team with a franchise. How do you think Tomlin would be without BR7?

Buddha Bus
05-28-2013, 12:52 PM
LeBeau's defenses may be all of what you say they are but one thing has changed significantly over the last few years and that is that they have not been able to close the deal as they did in the past. It isn't about how many points per game they allow but rather it's about WHEN they allow those points.

There was a time when we had a lead - even a small lead - that I would just assume that the defense would take care of the rest but that's not the case anymore. Lately, unless we're up by three scores, I simply don't feel confident in our defense being able to hold a lead late in the game and that's something that NEVER entered my mind in years past.

There was a time when, for example, if we had a team in a 3rd and 9 situation I'd actually get up and fix a snack or maybe go outside and have a smoke because I'd just assume that the next play would be a punt followed by a bunch of commercials.
But lately, in the same 3rd and 9 situation, I find myself hoping that we can somehow keep them from getting a First Down and more often than not my hopes are dashed.

THAT is what's different now - that inability to get it done when it needs to get done and the stats don't reflect that.

Well, don't you think it's high time the offense tries to return the favor and take the team on their backs to help out an aging and transitioning defense? Why is it always on the defense to bail out the offense? You apparently wouldn't give the defense any credit for it if they continued doing it anyway. All of that success was solely due to the offensive mastery of Bruce Arians I guess. :doh:

Buddha Bus
05-28-2013, 12:54 PM
You can say that about a Coach on any team with a franchise. How do you think Tomlin would be without BR7?

Yeah, but Mike Tomlin looks like Omar Epps and that gets him noticed more.

lloydwoodson
05-28-2013, 04:18 PM
You can say that about a Coach on any team with a franchise. How do you think Tomlin would be without BR7?

Well the Bears made it to the Superbowl with Rex Grossman. I think that goes a long way to showing how powerful great defense can be.

Where do you think Roethlisberger would be without a top 5 defense? I will tell you. Out of the playoffs. Roethlisberger has never made a playoffs without a top 5 defense- he is 0 for 3.

teegre
05-28-2013, 05:54 PM
You can say that about a Coach on any team with a franchise. How do you think Tomlin would be without BR7?

True... because it is also true about Belichick. Belichick was nothing without Brady. QBs make HCs look smart (or dumb). Look at Cowher... no QB equals no Lombardis.

Ergo... when it comes to Arians & the Colts, I have to give 85% of the credit to Andrew Luck being drafted. Likewise, another 14% goes to the "Chuck Strong" mentality (we can defeat ANYTHING). Those two factors contributed to the turnaround of that team.

That said, I will indeed award Arians with 1% of the credit... (for that amazing bubble screen that he called on 4th & 17 :wink02:).

zcoop
05-28-2013, 06:57 PM
Bruce who? We Have Haley now, dink, dunk and all. Gotta pull for him even if we don't like the style. Arians is gone, lets move forward.

lloydwoodson
05-28-2013, 07:47 PM
Bruce who? We Have Haley now, dink, dunk and all. Gotta pull for him even if we don't like the style. Arians is gone, lets move forward.

Thank you. It also isn't like the dink and dunk offense is for no reason. The dink and dunk offense is because: 1. Use short passes in place of terrible running game 2. Offensive line inexperienced and often injured so they couldn't protect for more than a couple seconds 3. With the exception of Wallace all the receivers were short and quick and not vertical threats. Similarly Heath works best from 5-15 yards.

Buddha Bus
05-28-2013, 08:08 PM
Thank you. It also isn't like the dink and dunk offense is for no reason. The dink and dunk offense is because: 1. Use short passes in place of terrible running game 2. Offensive line inexperienced and often injured so they couldn't protect for more than a couple seconds 3. With the exception of Wallace all the receivers were short and quick and not vertical threats. Similarly Heath works best from 5-15 yards.

And 4. We're trying to keep Ben Roethlisberger out of a wheelchair.

teegre
05-28-2013, 08:50 PM
Bruce who? We Have Haley now, dink, dunk and all. Gotta pull for him even if we don't like the style. Arians is gone, lets move forward.

Excellent point, zcoop.

I agree... it's time to move on. Another way of saying it would be: why are we STILL discussing Bruce Arians & Mike Wallace???

pczach
05-28-2013, 09:20 PM
Must.....Go.......On!

:rofl:

lloydwoodson
05-28-2013, 11:03 PM
And 4. We're trying to keep Ben Roethlisberger out of a wheelchair.

Hahaha yeah I don't know how I missed that one. That should have been number one.

Buddha Bus
05-29-2013, 03:09 AM
Excellent point, zcoop.

I agree... it's time to move on. Another way of saying it would be: why are we STILL discussing Bruce Arians & Mike Wallace???

Because if someone complains enough about it on a message board, the team will surely have no other choice but to bring these guys back.... with raises. :wink02:

pczach
05-29-2013, 05:19 AM
Because if someone complains enough about it on a message board, the team will surely have no other choice but to bring these guys back.... with raises. :wink02:

There's still a chance we could swoop in and wrestle him away from the Cardinals. We still have a chance!:sofunny:

It is time to move on. Let's see how Haley uses the talent available this year. If they struggle, the shouts are going to be even louder.

I hope he shuts everybody up.

teegre
05-29-2013, 07:15 AM
Because if someone complains enough about it on a message board, the team will surely have no other choice but to bring these guys back.... with raises. :wink02:

Forget bringing back Bruce Arians; I want Ron Erhardt.

What?... dead?... oh... well, he's still better than Haley.

Fire the Grim Reaper!!!

SteelCitian
05-29-2013, 08:24 AM
I didn't think this thread would be alive this long.

VaDave
05-29-2013, 09:17 AM
Forget bringing back Bruce Arians; I want Ron Erhardt.

What?... dead?... oh... well, he's still better than Haley.

Fire the Grim Reaper!!!

Tom Moore ( unless he's still on retainer with the Denver Peytons... er Broncos), and Dan Radkovich, are also still around....

VaDave
05-29-2013, 09:22 AM
I didn't think this thread would be alive this long.

It has more lives that a cat, or if you'd rather, the political life of Hillary Clinton.........

lloydwoodson
05-29-2013, 05:32 PM
It has more lives that a cat, or if you'd rather, the political life of Hillary Clinton.........

Nothing can suck the life out of a thread like a Hillary Clinton reference.

http://i41.tinypic.com/5mzf4i.jpg

Thank you for ending this nightmare.

Hawaii 5-0
05-29-2013, 05:51 PM
It has more lives that a cat, or if you'd rather, the political life of Hillary Clinton.........

that's probably because she made a deal with the devil...

http://eviljwinter.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/hillanddevil.jpg?w=401&h=307

FanSince72
05-29-2013, 08:56 PM
Nothing can suck the life out of a thread like a Hillary Clinton reference.



Except maybe a Reagan reference.

http://www.clarioncallnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/20110210-550x399.jpg

lloydwoodson
05-30-2013, 02:44 AM
Never have a discussion about religion or politics.

The Ultimate Warrior taught me that.

Buddha Bus
05-30-2013, 03:02 AM
Never have a discussion about religion or politics.

The Ultimate Warrior taught me that.

You actually understood anything that guy said? :chuckle:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF4ZTcuhixc

FanSince72
05-30-2013, 08:13 AM
Never have a discussion about religion or politics.

The Ultimate Warrior taught me that.

Unless of course it's TEAM politics, in which case we then have sixty eight threads about it. :doh:

Hawaii 5-0
05-30-2013, 03:59 PM
Never have a discussion about religion or politics.



http://www.thehulltruth.com/attachments/dockside-chat/287613d1355364261-hijacking-threads-calling-posters-out-21675_10151092992165773_651854201_n.jpg

FrancoLambert
05-30-2013, 04:17 PM
Never have a discussion about religion or politics.

The Ultimate Warrior taught me that.

So true. If you want to pick a fight with a family member or your best friend, just start discussing politics and religion. A fight or disagreement is a sure bet.

Hawaii 5-0
05-30-2013, 06:49 PM
So true. If you want to pick a fight with a family member or your best friend, just start discussing politics and religion. A fight or disagreement is a sure bet.

not if you discuss stimulus packages...

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/sexy-hot-motivational-posters-3-16.jpg

VaDave
05-31-2013, 08:16 AM
not if you discuss stimulus packages...

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/sexy-hot-motivational-posters-3-16.jpg

Well, this certainly got my attention...........hmumminahumina..........

teegre
05-31-2013, 11:52 AM
Uh... what were we talking about again? For some reason, the blood has rushed out of my brain.

pczach
05-31-2013, 02:15 PM
Uh... what were we talking about again? For some reason, the blood has rushed out of my brain.

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4013563136/hD7138D0F/

VaDave
05-31-2013, 02:41 PM
We were talking about a certain "BOOB" that ran our offense......

teegre
05-31-2013, 03:16 PM
We were talking about a certain "BOOB" that ran our offense......

Niiiiiicely played, sir.

Way to bring it back full circle.

This is the post of the year!!!

Wait... those previous posts were pretty darn good, as well. LOL Really though, nice job.

Steelstoned1972
05-31-2013, 04:20 PM
[QUOTE=pczach;1125416]https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4013563136/hD7138D0F/[/QUO

Question : Those jugs real or fake ?

Answer : Who fucking cares !!!! :love:

Hawaii 5-0
05-31-2013, 08:44 PM
[QUOTE=pczach;1125416]https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4013563136/hD7138D0F/[/QUO

Question : Those jugs real or fake ?

Answer : Who fucking cares !!!! :love:

Question : Those jugs real or fake ?

Answer : They are real nice!!!!

Hawaii 5-0
06-09-2013, 10:20 PM
Sean Payton, Bruce Arians among best play-callers in NFL today

NFL.com
June 8, 2013

We're still three months away from meaningful plays, but play-calling is always a hot topic. Just this week, the Dallas Cowboys officially announced that offensive coordinator Bill Callahan will take over play-calling duties from head coach Jason Garrett. Meanwhile, Sean Payton said the New Orleans Saints have yet to nail down their offensive chain of command.

Obviously, this is an area of chief importance across the league, begging one simple question: Who is the best offensive play-caller in the NFL?

Jason Smith
NFL.com

Bruce Arians is finally getting his due as an offensive genius

It's Bruce Arians, and everyone else. Now you know why, without a marquee running back, the Pittsburgh Steelers were so dominant while he was calling plays for them. He finally got his credit last season, as the Indianapolis Colts surprised everyone by winning 11 games with a rookie quarterback, average talent at wide receiver and tight end, and below-average talent in the backfield. And remember how the Colts did it? By driving long distances late in games to beat Minnesota, Green Bay, Tennessee and Detroit -- in addition to being able to salt away other games late with time-consuming drives.

Arians is what you'd call a late bloomer, but it's terrific that he's at the party. And even though he hired Harold Goodwin to be his offensive coordinator in Arizona, Arians will still call the plays for the Cardinals in 2013. I can't wait to see what he does, as I expect Larry Fitzgerald to return to prominence, and Carson Palmer to turn into Kurt Warner with a late-career desert resurgence.

Bucky Brooks
NFL.com

Sean Payton is in a class of his own

Sean Payton is the top offensive play caller in the NFL, and it's not even close. Now, that's not a slight to the other great play-callers across the league, but no one matches Payton in the preparation and in-game-adjustment phases. He cleverly uses a mixture of formations and personnel groupings to exploit the weaknesses of the opponent, while operating at a rapid tempo. The Saints are one of the quickest teams to the line of scrimmage following a play, which speaks volumes about his ability to think two or three steps ahead as a play-caller.

Additionally, Payton has an outstanding feel for the game and how to set opponents up for big plays off schematic complements. Watching the Saints on tape, I've always been impressed with how well they use the "First 15" script to set up home-run plays in the second half. While most offensive coordinators attempt to utilize this approach, few can match Payton's sense of timing, awareness and anticipation when it comes to dialing up explosives.

Lastly, Peyton deserves the top spot because he is brilliant with in-game adjustments. He shows tremendous patience in sticking with his original game plan, but will make minor tweaks and adjustments to take advantage of defensive coordinator's tactical plans. This routinely results in the Saints catching fire in the second half after experiencing a series of three-and-outs early in the game.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000210201/article/sean-payton-bruce-arians-among-best-playcallers-in-nfl-today?campaign=Twitter_writers_debate

VaDave
06-10-2013, 05:49 AM
Bucky apparently has been hitting the sauce a gain I see...... Obviously he hasn't watched a whole lot of Steeler football. Maybe we should send him a copy of the 2nd Cleveland game from 2009...... Carson Palmer turning into Kurt Warner is about as likely as Obama slashing the federal budget......As for Fitz having a breakout year, he'd be great even if he had Liberace calling his plays.....

lloydwoodson
06-10-2013, 05:56 AM
Bucky apparently has been hitting the sauce a gain I see...... Obviously he hasn't watched a whole lot of Steeler football. Maybe we should send him a copy of the 2nd Cleveland game from 2009...... Carson Palmer turning into Kurt Warner is about as likely as Obama slashing the federal budget......As for Fitz having a breakout year, he'd be great even if he had Liberace calling his plays.....

Sure Liberace might not be a great playcaller but if he was head coach the Cards would lose fabulously! Think how good the Card logo would look in all sequins and shiny lame tights would be breathtaking.

VaDave
06-10-2013, 06:05 AM
Sure Liberace might not be a great playcaller but if he was head coach the Cards would lose fabulously! Think how good the Card logo would look in all sequins and shiny lame tights would be breathtaking.

:rofl:

Goldsteel86
06-10-2013, 06:11 AM
Sean Payton, Bruce Arians among best play-callers in NFL today

NFL.com
June 8, 2013

We're still three months away from meaningful plays, but play-calling is always a hot topic. Just this week, the Dallas Cowboys officially announced that offensive coordinator Bill Callahan will take over play-calling duties from head coach Jason Garrett. Meanwhile, Sean Payton said the New Orleans Saints have yet to nail down their offensive chain of command.

Obviously, this is an area of chief importance across the league, begging one simple question: Who is the best offensive play-caller in the NFL?

Jason Smith
NFL.com

Bruce Arians is finally getting his due as an offensive genius

It's Bruce Arians, and everyone else. Now you know why, without a marquee running back, the Pittsburgh Steelers were so dominant while he was calling plays for them. He finally got his credit last season, as the Indianapolis Colts surprised everyone by winning 11 games with a rookie quarterback, average talent at wide receiver and tight end, and below-average talent in the backfield. And remember how the Colts did it? By driving long distances late in games to beat Minnesota, Green Bay, Tennessee and Detroit -- in addition to being able to salt away other games late with time-consuming drives.

Arians is what you'd call a late bloomer, but it's terrific that he's at the party. And even though he hired Harold Goodwin to be his offensive coordinator in Arizona, Arians will still call the plays for the Cardinals in 2013. I can't wait to see what he does, as I expect Larry Fitzgerald to return to prominence, and Carson Palmer to turn into Kurt Warner with a late-career desert resurgence.

Bucky Brooks
NFL.com

Sean Payton is in a class of his own

Sean Payton is the top offensive play caller in the NFL, and it's not even close. Now, that's not a slight to the other great play-callers across the league, but no one matches Payton in the preparation and in-game-adjustment phases. He cleverly uses a mixture of formations and personnel groupings to exploit the weaknesses of the opponent, while operating at a rapid tempo. The Saints are one of the quickest teams to the line of scrimmage following a play, which speaks volumes about his ability to think two or three steps ahead as a play-caller.

Additionally, Payton has an outstanding feel for the game and how to set opponents up for big plays off schematic complements. Watching the Saints on tape, I've always been impressed with how well they use the "First 15" script to set up home-run plays in the second half. While most offensive coordinators attempt to utilize this approach, few can match Payton's sense of timing, awareness and anticipation when it comes to dialing up explosives.

Lastly, Peyton deserves the top spot because he is brilliant with in-game adjustments. He shows tremendous patience in sticking with his original game plan, but will make minor tweaks and adjustments to take advantage of defensive coordinator's tactical plans. This routinely results in the Saints catching fire in the second half after experiencing a series of three-and-outs early in the game.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000210201/article/sean-payton-bruce-arians-among-best-playcallers-in-nfl-today?campaign=Twitter_writers_debate

I just threw up in my mouth, so dominate that the Steelers lost the SB to Green Bay and then lost to Tim Tebow, I may vomit again.

lloydwoodson
06-10-2013, 08:41 AM
I just threw up in my mouth, so dominate that the Steelers lost the SB to Green Bay and then lost to Tim Tebow, I may vomit again.

Arians was incidental to his team's moderate success. Whisenhunt went 15-1 with Roethlisberger as a rookie against better competition. None of these experts ever mentions strength of schedule.

I think Arians' success shows how bad other coaches are. To beat Arians 1. Pinch the line he never runs outside. 2. Defend bubble screen. 3. Pin ears back on 3rd and longer than 2 IT'S A PASS!!! 4. Provide safety help to corner covering Fitzgerald he will be targeted 20 times per game. 5. Don't waste a defender on the TE (he is secretly a lineman). 6. Repeat.

Brees threw for over 5000 yards and 43 touchdowns last year because... Payton's genius inspired him all the way from his couch? Brilliant brilliant man! (I actually like Payton but let's see him run that offense with Tebow or Sanchez or any other Jets quarterback past or present).:toofunny:

Goldsteel86
06-10-2013, 08:53 AM
Arians was incidental to his team's moderate success. Whisenhunt went 15-1 with Roethlisberger as a rookie against better competition. None of these experts ever mentions strength of schedule.

I think Arians' success shows how bad other coaches are. To beat Arians 1. Pinch the line he never runs outside. 2. Defend bubble screen. 3. Pin ears back on 3rd and longer than 2 IT'S A PASS!!! 4. Provide safety help to corner covering Fitzgerald he will be targeted 20 times per game. 5. Don't waste a defender on the TE (he is secretly a lineman). 6. Repeat.

Brees threw for over 5000 yards and 43 touchdowns last year because... Payton's genius inspired him all the way from his couch? Brilliant brilliant man! (I actually like Payton but let's see him run that offense with Tebow or Sanchez or any other Jets quarterback past or present).:toofunny:

IMO Whisenhunt was more of an Offensive coordinator than Arians was, Whisenhunt used his players abilities towards the offense's capabilities. Arians had his own wishes and motives in mind, it was all about him, Whisenhunt kept Ben on track and in-check Arians just wanted to feed the monster, abandon the running game and throw, throw, throw. As you said, the dreaded "bubble screen", good night at least Whisenhunt used Bettis and Parker, Arians wasn't interested in bringing Parker back, he had his own scheme and Tomlin played right into it, so he is to blame also, IMO.

VaDave
06-10-2013, 09:04 AM
RE: The Bubble screen

I will say this, it was a very effective play for BA. Why? Because the D has 8 men in the box. When you take a look at the average yard gained on the bubble screen while he was here, he was averaging something like 6 yards a pop. Got anybody in the league that's averaging that running the ball? Well, that was his response to why he used that play so much. It was just a long hand off.

The problem with it was, he was dependent on it to get the ball down the field. But when you get to the redzone, it's as useful as a clump of farts. The running game he ditched in favor of the bubble screen, suffering from atrophy, never had the balls to drive it in on a consistent basis enough for defenses to take seriously.

ebsteelers
06-10-2013, 09:20 AM
FIRE BUDDHA BUS
FIRE EVERYONE

FanSince72
06-10-2013, 11:11 AM
http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/JPsuff/omg_zpsf357d9b5.jpg

lloydwoodson
06-10-2013, 11:15 AM
I just threw up in my mouth, so dominate that the Steelers lost the SB to Green Bay and then lost to Tim Tebow, I may vomit again.

RE: The Bubble screen

I will say this, it was a very effective play for BA. Why? Because the D has 8 men in the box. When you take a look at the average yard gained on the bubble screen while he was here, he was averaging something like 6 yards a pop. Got anybody in the league that's averaging that running the ball? Well, that was his response to why he used that play so much. It was just a long hand off.

The problem with it was, he was dependent on it to get the ball down the field. But when you get to the redzone, it's as useful as a clump of farts. The running game he ditched in favor of the bubble screen, suffering from atrophy, never had the balls to drive it in on a consistent basis enough for defenses to take seriously.

I agree that the bubble screen was effective at times. Mostly Wallace did the most with those screens and was the reason it was ran so often. However, bubble screens went for 2 ypc tops vs the Ravens. There was another team who totally shut it down but I forget who. Point is smart teams shut it down immediately. Every screen ran against the Ravens was a loss of down at best. Like I said other NFL coaches werent smart enough to shut Arians down after the Ravens gave them the blueprint.

VaDave
06-10-2013, 11:23 AM
I agree that the bubble screen was effective at times. Mostly Wallace did the most with those screens and was the reason it was ran so often. However, bubble screens went for 2 ypc tops vs the Ravens. There was another team who totally shut it down but I forget who. Point is smart teams shut it down immediately. Every screen ran against the Ravens was a loss of down at best. Like I said other NFL coaches werent smart enough to shut Arians down after the Ravens gave them the blueprint.

Might very well be the reason he's not coaching in the Burgh..... Dumb DCs may be the only reason he's survived period.......

lloydwoodson
06-12-2013, 12:24 PM
Arians mimicked the Colts and Pats offenses a lot. The bottom line is the players execution wins games.

I hpe this year the offense shows it has been working hard in the offseason and is much more crisp.

VaDave
06-12-2013, 12:37 PM
I'm going to have to disagree on BA mirroring the Pats and the Colts ( Moore-Manning) offense. Just asking, did you see defenses putting 8 in the box defending against the Pats and the Colts as often as they did with us?

I had a long debate with a poster on another board who claimed that BA intentionally drew more defenders into the box, so he could get one on one matchups on his WRs. Said it was a spread offense thing. Funny, I always though the goal of a spread O was to make the defense defend as much of the field as possible.

lloydwoodson
06-12-2013, 01:15 PM
No. There were 8 men in the box because Tomlin, Colbert and Arians ignored the OL for years.

The Pats were the first team I saw with an empty backfield regardless of down. To me thewhole NFL copied the Pats and Colts to an extent (personnel permitting.)