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VSP644
03-11-2013, 02:43 PM
I read yesterday about the Steelers possibly targeting Victor Butler. Butler is an unrestricted free agent from Dallas. Has anybody heard or read anything regarding Butler or any other FA that we maybe looking at here on the near future?

OX1947
03-11-2013, 02:51 PM
who?

Steelers>NFL
03-11-2013, 02:52 PM
yeah, WHO?

Steelers>NFL
03-11-2013, 02:55 PM
He is a backup LB. Stuck behind Spencer & Ware, hence reason for limited playing time.
Might not bs a bad sign.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5344/victor-butler

Hawaii 5-0
03-11-2013, 03:08 PM
just curious, where did you hear or read the Steelers were interested in Victor Butler?

Jets targeting Dallas Cowboys outside linebacker Victor Butler

New York Daily News 3/11/2013

The Jets aren’t expected to make a big splash when free agency officially starts on Tuesday, but new general manager John Idzik hopes to make some smart economic signings to fill areas of need for a team that missed the playoffs for the second consecutive season.

The Daily News has learned that the Jets are targeting Cowboys outside linebacker Victor Butler to fill one of those needs. Gang Green released outside linebacker Calvin Pace a few weeks ago and unrestricted free agent Bryan Thomas isn’t expected to re-sign with the team. The Jets could go in a number of directions with the No. 9 overall pick in next month’s draft, including an outside pass rusher. Butler’s skill-set falls in line with what the Jets need with the loss of Pace and Thomas.

The 6-2, 245-pound Butler, the Cowboys’ fourth-round pick in 2009, has been a backup in Dallas. He had 21 tackles, three sacks and two forced fumbles playing for Rex Ryan’s brother, Rob, last season.
Butler, who has 11 sacks in four seasons, will turn 26 this summer.

http://www.hotboxsports.com/NFL/article/49171

VSP644
03-11-2013, 03:24 PM
I can t remember what site I read it on. But as soon as I read it I started to do a little research....Butler is 26yrs old and has sat behind Spencer & Ware. He is looking for a starting gig. This guy might be someone the Steelers are seriously looking at as he will be a 2nd tier FA which means he could come cheap with a lot of upside!!!:tt04:

Bayz101
03-13-2013, 11:02 PM
Bump.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/3/13/4102072/steelers-free-agency-victor-butler

harrison'samonster
03-13-2013, 11:05 PM
if he wants to start, Pittsburgh's a place where he'll get a shot

Hawaii 5-0
03-14-2013, 01:51 AM
Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora:

OLB Victor Butler, who could be a diamond in the rough, is visiting the Steelers tomorrow. Several teams interested

https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora

tony hipchest
03-14-2013, 01:54 AM
typical steelers move

#winning

Fire Haley
03-14-2013, 03:15 AM
The next James Harrison!


unless Harrison himself come crawling back to the Steelers for vet minimum now that the market for old pass rushers has tanked

Galax Steeler
03-14-2013, 03:21 AM
Are we showing more intrest in free agency this year are is it just me?

wwhickok
03-14-2013, 06:42 AM
Really excited about this. He didn't start in Dallas because of who was in front of him not because he isn't good. I'm not ready to compare him to Harrison but he, I think, would start at ROLB.

Steelers>NFL
03-14-2013, 07:41 AM
my bet is, he is signed today. word is that he an under the rader type player. kind of players the Steelers like/find.

pete74
03-14-2013, 08:04 AM
His old defensive coordinator now in new Orleans wants him as well as the Jets so if we don'tssign him today it'sgoing to turn into a bbidding war that we won't take part in. I would love to have him.

Steel_Bus_24
03-14-2013, 09:03 AM
I never get my hopes up when it comes to FA

Fire Haley
03-14-2013, 10:23 AM
I never get my hopes up when it comes to FA

Wise move!



some Cowboy fans think he's a diamond in the rough too, take it for what it's worth


Victor Butler starting to draw attention

His one trick is sacks. I don;t find that to be a bad trick at all. If giving the chance he might blow up in the right situation. He might not ever be a long term solution at Lber but for a team that is looking for a cheap hidden gem he is a good option right now as long as you’re not braking the bank.. I feel like how Kevin Burnett stood on this team is kind of how Victor Butler was treated on his way out. He'll be a starter someday. And yes he isn't Demarcus Ware. But like Burnett he also made some plays.

Wasn't just a guy. He will give some team 8 or 10 sacks if giving the opportunity too all season. In the right situation Butler could be a very good pickup. I think that is a far assessment.

We can’t pay him much because of Ware and Spencer’s presence. But that doesn’t mean Butler is a bum. I fully expect him to go somewhere and put up a couple sacks and for there to be a thread on here about how we missed out on his talent. And then for Butler to kind of be a journeyman who gets released a lot and proves the cowboys right for not paying him a lot but also proves he can be a solid starter. Like I said before, he simply has two top rated players infront of him that demand to be on the field most of the game.



He will be awesome somewhere. He will be the one casualty/mistake that results from going to the 4-3.Which is fine, he was never going to get a shot here behind Ware & Spencer if we had stayed 3-4.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=112&f=1786&t=11370061

CanuckCurtain
03-14-2013, 06:23 PM
Bump.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/3/13/4102072/steelers-free-agency-victor-butler

love the last sentence in that article:chuckle:

ZoneBlitzer
03-14-2013, 07:24 PM
I never get my hopes up when it comes to FA

It's the most painful part of the year for Steeler fans.

PhantomJB93
03-14-2013, 07:55 PM
It wouldn't be the worst move in the world and I wouldn't complain about it if it happened, but if we're not drafting an OLB to start immediately I think Worilds deserves at least one year as a starter.

FacemeIke
03-14-2013, 08:42 PM
If I was an unproven LB with potention I'd want to sign in Pitt before anywhere else and have the opportunity to be a part of the Steeler LB tradition and learn and grow in a system that has created so many HOFers. If I was him I wouldn't leave Pitt without a contract as long as they offered me anywhere near market value!

SteelersCanada
03-14-2013, 09:11 PM
I think this kid has the potential to be a stud, he just needs to be in the right atmosphere. LeBeau and Butler can create such an atmosphere.

Justp94
03-14-2013, 09:20 PM
If I was an unproven LB with potention I'd want to sign in Pitt before anywhere else and have the opportunity to be a part of the Steeler LB tradition and learn and grow in a system that has created so many HOFers. If I was him I wouldn't leave Pitt without a contract as long as they offered me anywhere near market value!

You're absolutely right. What are you thoughts on possibly bringing in Ernie Sims on a 2-year deal to challenge Foote for his starting spot or for depth at ILB? I think the former 1st round pick of the Lions proved he was good last year on the Cowboys by being asked to just be a fill in guy then one week later stepping up as being the playcaller on defense. I think he'd be a compliment to Foote and Timmons at ILB, especially since we don't know how Spence will be after that injury last season.

Hawaii 5-0
03-15-2013, 01:45 AM
Steelers to bring in OLB Victor Butler for a visit

By Neal Coolong on Mar 13 2013

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/9695919/150990432.0_standard_500.0.jpg

A teammate of cornerback Keenan Lewis's at Oregon State, Butler was a fourth round pick in 2009, and has performed fairly well in his time with Dallas.

In an offseason that's seen the Steelers lose a third round pick from the 2009 draft (Mike Wallace) and their first round pick in 2008 (Rashard Mendenhall), they may be in position to take a young player off another team.

Cowboys outside linebacker Victor Butler, a fourth-round pick in 2009, is set to visit the Steelers, reported CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora via Twitter Wednesday.

La Canfora said "several teams" will be interested in Butler, who had three sacks and a forced fumble, appearing in all 16 of Dallas's games last season. Interest from other teams is intriguing, and while the Steelers have been fleeced out of a few of their new fourth-year free agents (with Keenan Lewis, a college teammate of Butler's at Oregon State), it's tantalizing to think about signing someone else's.

Butler saw limited duty with the Cowboys, considering the talent they have at outside linebacker. He provided decent pressure when he was in there, but there are some concerns about the level of run support he's able to provide.

The Steelers had Dan Connor in for a visit recently, but no contract materialized out of it. Butler would be the second, and would be in position to compete for a starting position with Jason Worilds, and fill in for LaMarr Woodley when he pulls a hamstring.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/3/13/4102072/steelers-free-agency-victor-butler/in/3614167

ZoneBlitzer
03-15-2013, 03:04 AM
^ Sounds interesting. Does the author know when BlubBarr will pull his hammy? It would be good to get a heads up.

Galax Steeler
03-15-2013, 03:11 AM
I hate waiting on stuff like this lets just sign him and get on with it.

Steelers>NFL
03-15-2013, 08:17 AM
I hate waiting on stuff like this lets just sign him and get on with it.

antsy aren't we? lol... I hear, I feel the same way.

It's almost like, signing any FA outside of Pittsburgh is an exciting thing.

steelfury02
03-15-2013, 08:23 AM
this, along with the Notre Dame Tyler Eifert pick idea are some of the most interesting ideas I've read thus far - I would be thrilled to land a guy with this much upside - I would be thrilled to see him in a starting role or in a depth role where he is biting at Worilds ankles - I think Worilds is a guy that needs to stay on his toes a little bit in terms of earning playing time.

For all of Woodley's hammy issues - if we get this guy and Woodley has a big year - the OLB crew just became a strength - I don't like where it stands right now

WokeUpWithaWoodley
03-15-2013, 12:51 PM
Can't we just sign him already!!!!:tt04:

Fire Haley
03-15-2013, 01:44 PM
tick...tick...tick


The New Orleans Saints would be high on the target list for Cowboys free-agent linebacker Victor Butler if he leaves Pittsburgh without a contract, according to a source.

The problem for the Saints is Butler may not leave Pittsburgh as the Steelers are pushing hard to land the 25-year-old linebacker.

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2013/03/new_orleans_saints_would_be_hi.html

Steelers>NFL
03-15-2013, 01:50 PM
tick...tick...tick


The New Orleans Saints would be high on the target list for Cowboys free-agent linebacker Victor Butler if he leaves Pittsburgh without a contract, according to a source.

The problem for the Saints is Butler may not leave Pittsburgh as the Steelers are pushing hard to land the 25-year-old linebacker.

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2013/03/new_orleans_saints_would_be_hi.html

SIGN him! Give us, Steeler fans something to look forward to. Even if we know very little about him, other then Cowgirl fans speaking high about him. DO IT!! :tt03:

GMU Steeler
03-15-2013, 01:55 PM
It would be awesome if Butler ended up being a Farrior type signing. He's still fairly young too. Get it done please. Guy looks like he's got talent but was just stuck behind talent.

Hawaii 5-0
03-15-2013, 01:57 PM
The problem for the Saints is Butler may not leave Pittsburgh as the Steelers are pushing hard to land the 25-year-old linebacker.



I think this was the Steelers' plan all along in case Deebo didn't accept his pay cut and why we held firm and ended up releasing him. it makes more sense to give $ to a promising up and coming 25-year old OLB than to an aging player like James Harrison whose best years are behind him.

GMU Steeler
03-15-2013, 02:00 PM
I think this was the Steelers' plan all along in case Deebo didn't accept his pay cut and why we held firm and ended up releasing him. it makes more sense to give $ to a promising up and coming 25-year old OLB than to an aging player like James Harrison whose best years are behind him.

It actually makes sense especially given the fact that we played Butler's team this year. I don't remember him in the game or how well he did but this guy could be a steal if we got him for the right money and I think honestly would give us more flexibility on what to draft in Rd-1.

Hawaii 5-0
03-15-2013, 02:29 PM
Steelers shouldn't let Victor Butler leave without a contract

by Gerry Dulac

Former Dallas Cowboys outside linebacker Victor Butler is visiting the Steelers today and they would be wise not to let him leave without his signature on a contract..

Not only is Butler being pursued by the Jets and the Saints, who have hired his former defensive coordinator in Dallas, Rob Ryan.

But he is a talented, up-and-coming outside edge rusher who just happened to be playing behind two Pro Bowlers with the Cowboys – DeMarcus Ware and Anthony Spencer.

Butler is 6-foot-2, 245 pounds and was a pass-rush specialist with the Cowboys. If nothing else, he would give the Steelers more depth on the outside; more important, he would certainly push Jason Worilds to be the replacement for James Harrison on the right side.

http://sulia.com/channel/pittsburgh-steelers/f/e43a2af2-a1a3-44e7-9e2e-8d0bcacb3d2a/?source=twitter

TheVet
03-15-2013, 02:48 PM
I'm really liking this Bulter discussion - our LB situation has me worried, and this sounds promising. This has the feel of a classic Steelers move.

Steel_Bus_24
03-15-2013, 03:09 PM
If he leaves to go visit another team then thats that for that

Hawaii 5-0
03-15-2013, 03:11 PM
Colin Dunlap ‏@colin_dunlap:

Trib's @MarkKaboly_Trib just told me on @937theFan that Victor Butler is commanding 5-5.5M and #Steelers might only want to pay about 3.5M

https://twitter.com/MarkKaboly_Trib/status/312023004697722880

SteelersCanada
03-15-2013, 03:15 PM
If he wants 5.5 million he can enjoy his tenure with the Jets.

Steelers>NFL
03-15-2013, 03:18 PM
If he wants 5.5 million he can enjoy his tenure with the Jets.

true DAT!.

He is trying to cash in the way Ellerbe did with the Phins.

teegre
03-15-2013, 03:18 PM
I think this was the Steelers' plan all along in case Deebo didn't accept his pay cut and why we held firm and ended up releasing him. it makes more sense to give $ to a promising up and coming 25-year old OLB than to an aging player like James Harrison whose best years are behind him.

My fear is that this is Jyles Tucker, part II.

I hope that it's James Farrior, but I have my doubts.

Steel_Bus_24
03-15-2013, 03:20 PM
Colin Dunlap ‏@colin_dunlap:

Trib's @MarkKaboly_Trib just told me on @937theFan that Victor Butler is commanding 5-5.5M and #Steelers might only want to pay about 3.5M

https://twitter.com/MarkKaboly_Trib/status/312023004697722880

Warning Profanity

Ay8jtEUKC1Y

TheVet
03-15-2013, 03:41 PM
Colin Dunlap ‏@colin_dunlap:

Trib's @MarkKaboly_Trib just told me on @937theFan that Victor Butler is commanding 5-5.5M and #Steelers might only want to pay about 3.5M

https://twitter.com/MarkKaboly_Trib/status/312023004697722880

Oh well, this was a fun thought while it lasted.

Varg
03-15-2013, 03:58 PM
Please god, I would forgive the Lewis ordeal if you give us this young up and coming linebacker....... Please give some positive news this offseason !!!

WokeUpWithaWoodley
03-15-2013, 04:01 PM
Oh well, this was a fun thought while it lasted.

Give him 4 and a nice signing bonus with some good incentives plz

WokeUpWithaWoodley
03-15-2013, 04:02 PM
The Pittsburgh Steelers had a small group of visiting free-agents Friday, but all left without a contract. Sounds like a theme in the AFC North today.

According to Gerry Dulac of The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, running back Beanie Wells, outside linebacker Victor Butler and tight end Kellen Davis all finished their visits without any contract talks with the Steelers but that doesn't rule out the possibility of negotiations later.

All three address a void for the Steelers. Pittsburgh is looking to find a featured running back after Rashard Mendenhall signed with Arizona, an outside linebacker to replace recently released James Harrison and a tight end to fill in while Heath Miller recovers from knee surgery.

In other news, offensive lineman Willie Colon signed a one-year, $1.2 million deal with the Jets just two days after being released by Pittsburgh. The Steelers didn't want to pay Willie Colon's $5.5 salary this year because of injury concerns, and they were right to cut the offensive lineman. Colon is expected to start at guard for New York, according to ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/67268/no-deals-from-steelers-after-free-agent-visits


Shit

SteelersCanada
03-15-2013, 04:13 PM
I'm not even upset. Rumor had it he was looking for 5.5 million and what has he shown that he's worth that kind of money?

Enjoy playing for either Rob Ryan or Rex Ryan, pal.

austinfrench76
03-16-2013, 10:31 PM
5.5mm for this guy??? No way, I like him and what he looks like he could be but no way. That money kept us Lewis. No way.

Hawaii 5-0
03-23-2013, 06:07 PM
Victor Butler reportedly will visit Cleveland Browns

By Chris Wesseling
Around the League Writer
Published: March 22, 2013

Transitioning to a 3-4 scheme under new defensive coordinators, the New Orleans Saints and Cleveland Browns have been competing for outside linebackers in free agency.

The Browns already have outbid the Saints to win Paul Kruger as the centerpiece of Ray Horton's defense. Now they have a chance to steal another young edge rusher from New Orleans. Former Dallas Cowboys linebacker Victor Butler left his visit to the Big Easy and former defensive coordinator Rob Ryan without a contract, according to The Times-Picayune. His next stop will be Cleveland, beginning on Sunday, The Plain Dealer confirmed Friday.

Butler previously had visited the Pittsburgh Steelers while drawing interest from the New York Jets.

A promising reserve in his first four NFL seasons, Butler could be targeting a starting role with his next team. If that's the case, the Browns could be behind the eight-ball with Kruger and Jabaal Sheard atop the depth chart.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000152989/article/victor-butler-reportedly-will-visit-cleveland-browns

Hawaii 5-0
03-26-2013, 01:54 AM
Butler rebuffs Browns, heads to Philly

Posted by Mike Florio on March 25, 2013

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/victor-butler1.jpg?w=250

The Victor Butler tour continues, with no end in sight. And Butler’s journey has now taken him back to Pennsylvania.

According to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, Butler wrapped up a visit to the Browns without signing a contract. He’ll now head to Philadelphia for a visit with the Eagles.

Butler, a free agent who started his career with the Cowboys, started his effort to find a new team with a trip to see the Steelers. He also has visited the Saints.

The obvious conclusion is that Butler wants more money than anyone has offered.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/25/butler-rebuffs-browns-heads-to-philly/

SteelersCanada
03-28-2013, 11:47 AM
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 3h

Nice pickup in New Orleans: Saints plan to sign Cowboys LB Victor Butler.

-- This, to me, says two things: one, I don't think they're going to draft a pass rusher in the first round anymore as they have other needs to address now. Look for the Saints to take someone like Vaccaro in the first round as they address their secondary. The other which ties into our draft is, this means another pass rusher is going to fall. Look for guys like Barkevious Mingo, Jarvis Jones and Damontre Moore to still be on the board when we're picking at 17.

This was good for us. The Saints signing Butler just means more pass rushing talent is going to fall which coincides with exactly what we need to draft. Barkevious Mingo at 17, please and thanks.

Rabbit
03-28-2013, 11:50 AM
Please, god, not Barkevious Mingo. I would prefer someone who actually produced in college.

SteelersCanada
03-28-2013, 11:53 AM
Please, god, not Barkevious Mingo. I would prefer someone who actually produced in college.

You mean like how JPP didn't produce in college?

If you're judging prospects by their college success, you're doing everything wrong. Just a heads up.

ebsteelers
03-28-2013, 12:01 PM
what was with all the hype for butler i never watch the cowgirls so i dont know much about him.

just look at his stats 11 career sacks doesnt exact job off the page.

heard he wanted 5 million dollars... doesnt seem worth it..

rather a young olb falls into us come next month

SteelersCanada
03-28-2013, 12:02 PM
what was with all the hype for butler i never watch the cowgirls so i dont know much about him.

just look at his stats 11 career sacks doesnt exact job off the page.

heard he wanted 5 million dollars... doesnt seem worth it..

rather a young olb falls into us come next month

In all fairness, it's hard to get sacks when you're sitting behind DeMarcus Ware.

Rabbit
03-28-2013, 12:07 PM
JPP only started 7 games, but he still had 16.5 TFL and 7 sacks in that timeframe. He was obviously raw but talented.

I'm not saying I judge dudes based on stats they put up, but Mingo is a massive reach at pick 17 to me. He has some good qualities, but he absolutely disappears for worryingly long periods of time on tape. For a guy on a loaded defense like the one LSU has, there should be more production there. He never had more than one tackle for a loss or one sack in a game all of last year. That's concerning. Then it came out at the combine that he and Sam Montgomery admitted to taking entire games off. Games, not just plays. Who's to say he has the sudden drive and work ethic when he's getting paid first round money?

His frame is also really narrow, and who knows if he'll be able to maintain his only consistent trait (closing speed) when he has to pack on some muscle. I just can't get behind a guy who is invisible for long stretches of time. He wasn't much help in the run game, either.

harrison'samonster
03-28-2013, 12:12 PM
Then it came out at the combine that he and Sam Montgomery admitted to taking entire games off. Games, not just plays. Who's to say he has the sudden drive and work ethic when he's getting paid first round money?



I had forgotten about that. I don't think it matters how good he is, that has been something in the past that would make the Steelers pass on him.

SteelersCanada
03-28-2013, 01:37 PM
JPP only started 7 games, but he still had 16.5 TFL and 7 sacks in that timeframe. He was obviously raw but talented.

I'm not saying I judge dudes based on stats they put up, but Mingo is a massive reach at pick 17 to me. He has some good qualities, but he absolutely disappears for worryingly long periods of time on tape. For a guy on a loaded defense like the one LSU has, there should be more production there. He never had more than one tackle for a loss or one sack in a game all of last year. That's concerning. Then it came out at the combine that he and Sam Montgomery admitted to taking entire games off. Games, not just plays. Who's to say he has the sudden drive and work ethic when he's getting paid first round money?

His frame is also really narrow, and who knows if he'll be able to maintain his only consistent trait (closing speed) when he has to pack on some muscle. I just can't get behind a guy who is invisible for long stretches of time. He wasn't much help in the run game, either.

JPP played against weaker competition and didn't show greatness for any stretch of time and often times, disappeared for stretches in the game. Does this remind you of anyone?

Sam Montgomery said that he and Barkevious took games off. Montgomery said that, not Mingo. I'm not going to let Sam speak for the both of them and until I hear it from Barkevious' mouth, I'm going to take it with a grain of salt.

You said he disappeared for long stretches of the game and this is fair. There were games where he looked like he wasn't making an impact, but this wasn't because of lack of talent and/or dedication, it was because of what they were asking him to do. If you can find it (it's gotta be somewhere) go and look at the LSU - A&M game. It became painfully obvious that Barkevious was asked to contain, not sack, Manziel and he did it perfectly. Manziel rushed for 27 yards on 17 attempts because Mingo forced him to stay in the pocket and make plays with his arm, not his legs. He's versatile enough that he can shut down an offense in more than just one way and he showed it during this game. Joeckel did a good job against him, let's give credit where credit is due, but Mingo ultimately made Manziel a non-factor in that game. Montgomery was getting shut down on the other side by Jake Matthews but Mingo on the other side was generating a fair amount of pressure despite being asked to contain and keep Manziel from making the "big play".

His frame is very similar to Dion Jordan's. He's lean and strong, but versatile enough to be all over the field. I understand your concerns, but it's the exact same things people said about JPP. We'd be drafting him on his potential and ridiculously high ceiling and not necessarily what he could do for us as an immediate starter. A year behind guys like Worilds and Woodley while getting taught the mechanics by Butler would do this kid good.

It's important to understand why he "disappeared". A change in defensive philosophy and double-teams caused it.

Rabbit
03-28-2013, 01:51 PM
JPP, despite having almost no football experience under his belt, outproduced in seven games what Mingo did in both his 2010 and 2012 campaigns. Pierre Paul was also a much more athletically gifted prospect, his H/W/S and raw athleticism were off the charts in comparison to Mingo. He also had a pure bullrush move that Mingo has never shown, JPP could rely on strength, speed and technique to get by offensive tackles whereas Mingo to this point has only shown flashes as a speed rusher.

I agree that Mingo had a different role than normal to play against Texas A&M, and he performed it well for the most part, but you're just not going to have your pass rushers playing contain all game at the next level. No NFL offense is based around quarterbacks running like they do in college. Sure, you have the read option here and there, but it's a trend/package moreso than an actual offensive gameplan.

Since we're picking and choosing specific game films from which to watch, I would advise taking a look at LSU's game against Florida, who run an actual pro style system. Mingo was overmatched the entire game by Mike Gillislee and the Gators' offensive line, and he missed a couple of open field tackles. He's simply not good against the run. I hate to bring up JPP, but again, he had more solo tackles in 7 games than Mingo did in any of his three years at LSU.

You say that he disappeared because of philosophy and double teams, but the fact is that he regressed after teams started gameplanning for him. He simply didn't show up for and couldn't produce on a loaded defense in the NCAA's best conference and that is a major cause for concern.

SteelersCanada
03-28-2013, 02:11 PM
JPP, despite having almost no football experience under his belt, outproduced in seven games what Mingo did in both his 2010 and 2012 campaigns. Pierre Paul was also a much more athletically gifted prospect, his H/W/S and raw athleticism were off the charts in comparison to Mingo. He also had a pure bullrush move that Mingo has never shown, JPP could rely on strength, speed and technique to get by offensive tackles whereas Mingo to this point has only shown flashes as a speed rusher.

I agree that Mingo had a different role than normal to play against Texas A&M, and he performed it well for the most part, but you're just not going to have your pass rushers playing contain all game at the next level. No NFL offense is based around quarterbacks running like they do in college. Sure, you have the read option here and there, but it's a trend/package moreso than an actual offensive gameplan.

Since we're picking and choosing specific game films from which to watch, I would advise taking a look at LSU's game against Florida, who run an actual pro style system. Mingo was overmatched the entire game by Mike Gillislee and the Gators' offensive line, and he missed a couple of open field tackles. He's simply not good against the run. I hate to bring up JPP, but again, he had more solo tackles in 7 games than Mingo did in any of his three years at LSU.

You say that he disappeared because of philosophy and double teams, but the fact is that he regressed after teams started gameplanning for him. He simply didn't show up for and couldn't produce on a loaded defense in the NCAA's best conference and that is a major cause for concern.

JPP played at USF. Mingo played at LSU in the SEC against Florida, 'Bama and Georgia in the SEC. So, granted, he produced more but in a weaker conference. Let me ask you this, would Mingo have put up the same numbers for USF if he played against the kind of competition that the Big East has? I do.

We're not picking and choosing game film, the A&M game was just an example of his versatility. He did what he was asked to do against the best Tackle prospect that scouts have ever seen (since Orlando Pace). That in and of itself is impressive. Holding the Heisman Trophy winner to 27 yards rushing and making him look average isn't easy to do. Granted, LSU's secondary had something do with this as well but regardless, Mingo looked good against Joeckel.

I'm a Gator fan and the Gators don't run a pro offense. They can't, not with Driskel running the offense. I mean, it could technically be called a 'pro style offense' but Jeff Driskel is a bad, bad Quarterback. I don't know, it's always bothered me when people called it pro style. Anyway, we're way off track here. Where was I? Oh, ya. Mingo is average against the run and this is something I'm willing to concede. He lacks the brute strength to push a Tackle back and crash the interior of the pocket and close running lanes. However, this is balanced out when you look at how good McLendon and Heyward are at stopping the run. It's important to note this because Heyward would be played on Mingo's side if we drafted him and thus wouldn't have to be elite at stopping the run.

I also agree that he wouldn't be asked to stop the read option game in and game out, but again, that A&M example was just to show he's versatile and can provide multiple looks and things for a defense. He's quick and agile enough to blow by Tackles at the next level, but I'm also willing to concede the fact that he needs to develop a 'next level' block shedding move. Against guys like Thomas using pure speed isn't going to work.

I disagree on it being a cause for concern. While I'm sticking by what I said about why he disappeared, he's still young and can develop. If he develops that next level block shed move and continues to work on his technique, the kid is going to be a monster at the next level. You're absolutely right in terms of they gameplanned for him but I doubt he would start as a rookie and thus could learn and work with Butler as well as get mentoring from guys like LT and Woods which would mold him into a more mature and better pass rusher. Saying he couldn't produce is a bit of a stretch as he did in 2011 and showed what kind of player he can be if he's coached correctly with the correct pieces around him.

The potential is there for this kid to be amazing. I think not taking him at 17 if he's there is a mistake and I doubt Mike and co. would've gone to LSU's pro day if they didn't see anything in this kid. Granted, they might have been there to look at Eric Reid, but they stayed for Barkevious Mingo.

ebsteelers
03-28-2013, 02:15 PM
In all fairness, it's hard to get sacks when you're sitting behind DeMarcus Ware.

right i guess between being behind ware and spencer sacks are readily avaliable.
but a 2 year deal seems fair and he is sticking with ryan so i guess it makes sense for all parts involved.

Rabbit
03-28-2013, 07:20 PM
SteelersCanada, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm pretty sure we're both in the same ballpark on his potential and limitations, but I'm more hesitant to pull the trigger on the risk/reward at #17 than you are.

SteelersCanada
03-28-2013, 07:22 PM
SteelersCanada, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm pretty sure we're both in the same ballpark on his potential and limitations, but I'm more hesitant to pull the trigger on the risk/reward at #17 than you are.

Probably. Maybe he is a reach, who knows, but I'm willing to take that risk because of what the kids potential is.

kan_t
03-28-2013, 09:59 PM
I'm still not holding my breath that Mingo will be available at 17. Jarvis Jones is still my pick.