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View Full Version : A new way to think about the Sanders situation


teegre
04-16-2013, 04:22 PM
I remember back in the 90s, losing a ton of free agnets, right after the best year of their career. It was painful to watch Yancey Thigpen leave. It was even more painful to see Chad Brown playing for a different team. While Chris Hope's departure was not nearly as profound as those other two's, it created a similar feeling of "Argh!!!" And, that is merely the players that I can recall off the top of my head.

Then, there is Manny Sanders.

Some are saying that if Sanders has a stellar year, that he would then be too expensive to resign. To which, I say, good.

I have seen this time & time again, but not just with the Steelers... it happens to every team. Every year, I witness these young players playing hungry... seeking out a big contract. In turn, these young, hungry players put up ridiculous numbers... and then ask for the world in return. Alas, the team that drafted them usually can NOT match the offer (given by a team with lots of cap space), and thus, the young player leaves.

Vincent Jackson is the first name that comes to mind... followed by Mike Wallace.

Both of these wide-outs played very well for the teams that drafted them, and then went elsewhere (for oodles of cash). I can not fault those players; if a team offered me the world to play for them, I might just take it. The difference between $7 million per year and $12 million per year, is the difference between my children never having to worry about money and my grandchildren never having to worry about money. Money isn't everything, but it sure does help with paying college tuition.

Anyway, I digress.

The point is that after a short rookie contract, laden with stellar effort, I have seen these hungry players not produce once that contract is signed. Are they lazy? I do not think so. I just think that they peaked... or, better yet, that hungriness is gone.

Let's go back to the first thing that I said about Thigpen & Brown. They had the best year of their career years... and then left. The thing that we tend to forget is that they never really produced as well as they did when they were young & hungry.

Projecting that same pattern onto Sanders, I could see him having a break-out year... because, he is very hungry to prove himself. I could see him catching 80 balls for 1,200 yards, and 6 TDs. And then, I could see him becoming a player for another team.

But, what will we get when he leaves? Nothing. I disgree. The Steelers will have gotten a year of great production... a career year. Furthermore, Big Ben only has a few years left in the tank... and I do not really want to "waste" another year waiting for a new, R3 WR to develop. Do not get me wrong: draft another WR, hope that Sanders plays his tail off & has a career season, and then once Sanders leaves, insert that next guy.

Plax is to Tone, as Tone is to Wallace, as Wallace is to Sanders, as Sanders will be to Robert Woods.

In other words, getting the BEST year of a player's career is not a bad thing.

pczach
04-16-2013, 04:38 PM
I remember back in the 90s, losing a ton of free agnets, right after the best year of their career. It was painful to watch Yancey Thigpen leave. It was even more painful to see Chad Brown playing for a different team. While Chris Hope's departure was not nearly as profound as those other two's, it created a similar feeling of "Argh!!!" And, that is merely the players that I can recall off the top of my head.

Then, there is Manny Sanders.

Some are saying that if Sanders has a stellar year, that he would then be too expensive to resign. To which, I say, good.

I have seen this time & time again, but not just with the Steelers... it happens to every team. Every year, I witness these young players playing hungry... seeking out a big contract. In turn, these young, hungry players put up ridiculous numbers... and then ask for the world in return. Alas, the team that drafted them usually can NOT match the offer (given by a team with lots of cap space), and thus, the young player leaves.

Vincent Jackson is the first name that comes to mind... followed by Mike Wallace.

Both of these wide-outs played very well for the teams that drafted them, and then went elsewhere (for oodles of cash). I can not fault those players; if a team offered me the world to play for them, I might just take it. The difference between $7 million per year and $12 million per year, is the difference between my children never having to worry about money and my grandchildren never having to worry about money. Money isn't everything, but it sure does help with paying college tuition.

Anyway, I digress.

The point is that after a short rookie contract, laden with stellar effort, I have seen these hungry players not produce once that contract is signed. Are they lazy? I do not think so. I just think that they peaked... or, better yet, that hungriness is gone.

Let's go back to the first thing that I said about Thigpen & Brown. They had the best year of their career years... and then left. The thing that we tend to forget is that they never really produced as well as they did when they were young & hungry.

Projecting that same pattern onto Sanders, I could see him having a break-out year... because, he is very hungry to prove himself. I could see him catching 80 balls for 1,200 yards, and 6 TDs. And then, I could see him becoming a player for another team.

But, what will we get when he leaves? Nothing. I disgree. The Steelers will have gotten a year of great production... a career year. Furthermore, Big Ben only has a few years left in the tank... and I do not really want to "waste" another year waiting for a new, R3 WR to develop. Do not get me wrong: draft another WR, hope that Sanders plays his tail off & has a career season, and then once Sanders leaves, insert that next guy.

Plax is to Tone, as Tone is to Wallace, as Wallace is to Sanders, as Sanders will be to Robert Woods.

In other words, getting the BEST year of a player's career is not a bad thing.

Gosh, you're an upbeat guy!:tt:

I understand what you're saying, and I agree with much of it, but the problem is that the Steelers were never limited financially the way they are now with the salary cap issues. They would find other parts of the team to strengthen and lean on until the new parts fit into place and were ready to perform. They can't just go out and get a great deal on a free agent that would solidify a unit of the team. They are forced to go almost exclusively through the draft, and hope the talent they draft can be developed into the players they need on the field almost immediately. They have always built through the draft, but were able to make key acquisitions in free agency to supplement the drafted talent. That ability has been taken away by the financial pinch they are in. In other words, they better do very well in this draft and the next. If they don't, they could be in a position very unfamiliar to them and to us as fans.

TRH
04-16-2013, 05:07 PM
I would have preferred the 3rd round pick but i hear what you're saying. And speaking of Chad Brown, i think thats the greatest example of a player who should have stayed where he was, he was an superstar in Pittsburgh and could have solidified a stellar career instead of moving elsewhere and never quite being what he was here.

Bane
04-16-2013, 05:19 PM
Bane approves. I like this line of thinking. Out of left field, but only because it's not a way we normally think of this situation. We really should in most, if not all, cases.

This puts me at ease with Sanders's situation, although I'd still like to see Bradshaw here.

Buddha Bus
04-16-2013, 05:26 PM
I remember back in the 90s, losing a ton of free agnets, right after the best year of their career. It was painful to watch Yancey Thigpen leave. It was even more painful to see Chad Brown playing for a different team. While Chris Hope's departure was not nearly as profound as those other two's, it created a similar feeling of "Argh!!!" And, that is merely the players that I can recall off the top of my head.

Then, there is Manny Sanders.

Some are saying that if Sanders has a stellar year, that he would then be too expensive to resign. To which, I say, good.

I have seen this time & time again, but not just with the Steelers... it happens to every team. Every year, I witness these young players playing hungry... seeking out a big contract. In turn, these young, hungry players put up ridiculous numbers... and then ask for the world in return. Alas, the team that drafted them usually can NOT match the offer (given by a team with lots of cap space), and thus, the young player leaves.

Vincent Jackson is the first name that comes to mind... followed by Mike Wallace.

Both of these wide-outs played very well for the teams that drafted them, and then went elsewhere (for oodles of cash). I can not fault those players; if a team offered me the world to play for them, I might just take it. The difference between $7 million per year and $12 million per year, is the difference between my children never having to worry about money and my grandchildren never having to worry about money. Money isn't everything, but it sure does help with paying college tuition.

Anyway, I digress.

The point is that after a short rookie contract, laden with stellar effort, I have seen these hungry players not produce once that contract is signed. Are they lazy? I do not think so. I just think that they peaked... or, better yet, that hungriness is gone.

Let's go back to the first thing that I said about Thigpen & Brown. They had the best year of their career years... and then left. The thing that we tend to forget is that they never really produced as well as they did when they were young & hungry.

Projecting that same pattern onto Sanders, I could see him having a break-out year... because, he is very hungry to prove himself. I could see him catching 80 balls for 1,200 yards, and 6 TDs. And then, I could see him becoming a player for another team.

But, what will we get when he leaves? Nothing. I disgree. The Steelers will have gotten a year of great production... a career year. Furthermore, Big Ben only has a few years left in the tank... and I do not really want to "waste" another year waiting for a new, R3 WR to develop. Do not get me wrong: draft another WR, hope that Sanders plays his tail off & has a career season, and then once Sanders leaves, insert that next guy.

Plax is to Tone, as Tone is to Wallace, as Wallace is to Sanders, as Sanders will be to Robert Woods.

In other words, getting the BEST year of a player's career is not a bad thing.

And, not only do we get his best year potentially, we get more time and flexibility to draft his replacement next year or have a guy like David Gilreath step up with another year's experience. We don't know what we would have gotten if we had received the 3rd rounder from the Pats*. We know we have a WR in Sanders who has some serious skills and will be playing his heart out for next year.

It's not a Wallace situation where he is disgruntled and just trying to protect himself. He's said he's flattered and feels wanted by what the Steelers did and will try to prove to them they did the right thing. I only see a win-win here, barring another injury.

Fire Arians
04-16-2013, 05:27 PM
chad brown was the shit

TheVet
04-16-2013, 05:48 PM
...

Great read, well thought out! Yes, I also appreciate watching young players on the way up who are playing with desire (which is one of the reasons players like Mendy and Gilbert are so irritating, but I digress). Even if we can't retain these great young players, we do benefit from the production. So hopefully we'll enjoy Sanders' best year!

In this case, though, I would have preferred the third round draft pick. Our recent drafts have been so disappointing that we have holes everywhere, so I really want to get on with the rebuilding. We need those extra draft picks, because it's not like we're suddenly going to move from "swing and a miss, swing and a miss, strike 3" to a Ted Williams .400 average. If Colbert and Tomlin keep misfiring, we'll need lots and lots of additional rounds. Even if they're perfect, we don't have enough picks right now.

pczach
04-16-2013, 06:36 PM
chad brown was the shit

I love great, short, right to the point posts that have absolutely nothing to with the original point of the post but make perfect sense!:toofunny:

teegre
04-16-2013, 06:57 PM
pczach,
Yes, I am indeed upbeat. LOL As far as money goes, I guess that what I'm saying is that if the Steelers can get Sanders' "BEST" season of his career for $2.5 million, it is a bargain. And then, if they can get the "BEST" year (or two) of Woods' career for a similar cheap amount... followed by Leroy Whatshisname's "BEST" year or two... followed by Joe Wunderkind's "BEST" year or two... et cetera...

In other words, money will not be an issue, if the Steelers keep getting the "BEST" years from their young (inexpensive) players.

TRH,
I hear you. An extra pick is always nice, because draft picks are like gold in this league. BUT, getting the "BEST" year of a player's career is worth a R3 pick (in my opinion)... and that is exactly what I think that we are going to see: Sanders' best season of his career.

The Vet,
You said it best (and in far fewer words than I did): "Even if we can't retain these great young players, we do benefit from the production."

I like the recent drafts, but I think that we've already been over that topic, in the other thread ("Greatest Drafts in Steelers History").

Bane,
I knew you'd see what I was talking about.

Buddha,
Exactly. You are seeing this situation the way in which I am... and then some.

NSMaster56
04-16-2013, 07:33 PM
If Sanders helps the Steelers have a great year it will have been worth it.

Fire Haley
04-16-2013, 07:38 PM
I just think of it as a one year rental - just like in hockey

if it helps us win, I'm for it

steeltheone
04-16-2013, 08:06 PM
I would have preferred the 3rd round pick but i hear what you're saying. And speaking of Chad Brown, i think thats the greatest example of a player who should have stayed where he was, he was an superstar in Pittsburgh and could have solidified a stellar career instead of moving elsewhere and never quite being what he was here.

If not for Greg Lloyd, Chad Would have stayed. The Steelers could not pay both.

I'm not sure Sanders is a difference maker like Brown and Thigpen.

Hawaii 5-0
04-16-2013, 08:26 PM
And speaking of Chad Brown, i think thats the greatest example of a player who should have stayed where he was, he was an superstar in Pittsburgh and could have solidified a stellar career instead of moving elsewhere and never quite being what he was here.

Chad Brown couldn't stay in Pittsburgh.

there simply weren't enough good sushi bars there.

Steelers5895
04-16-2013, 09:28 PM
If not for Greg Lloyd, Chad Would have stayed. The Steelers could not pay both.

I'm not sure Sanders is a difference maker like Brown and Thigpen.

not the case. The steelers had room to sign one player that off season to a big contract. It was Chad Brown or Jerome Bettis.

If they signed Chad Brown, they would have cut Lloyd that year off his injury rather than have him back at 60% like he was in 1997.

Chad Brown was one of my all time favorite Steelers. Wish he was here longer

Bane
04-16-2013, 09:31 PM
Bane,
I knew you'd see what I was talking about.

If you're trying to label me as predictable, I will break you.

:chuckle:

teegre
04-16-2013, 10:29 PM
If you're trying to label me as predictable, I will break you.

:chuckle:

Well, just as you are about to break me, Catwoman (Lady Steel) will burst onto the scene, and shoot you down, with a couple of motorcycle-mounted machine-guns. :wink02:

(Seriously, what an abysmal ending to the GREATEST super-villians of all time. That alone ruined TDKR.)

Bane
04-16-2013, 10:35 PM
Well, just as you are about to break me, Catwoman (Lady Steel) will burst onto the scene, and shoot you down, with a couple of motorcycle-mounted machine-guns. :wink02:

(Seriously, what an abysmal ending to the GREATEST super-villians of all time. That alone ruined TDKR.)

I loved Bane's death. It took a fucking cannon to bring him down.

Ra's and Talia died from injuries from some lame crashes, Barsad was shot down, and Harvey got tackled like a bitch.

Me FTW.

teegre
04-16-2013, 10:48 PM
I loved Bane's death. It took a fucking cannon to bring him down.

Ra's and Talia died from injuries from some lame crashes, Barsad was shot down, and Harvey got tackled like a bitch.

Me FTW.

Hmmm, I never thought about it that way. I guess that... nah, it was CATWOMAN, man!!!

BlaZeQuietly
04-16-2013, 10:53 PM
It was probably best we retained Sanders, I wanna see some new faces on the field next year not ALL new faces, Sanders made a few mistakes of his own last year but he will get better with time Brown, Sanders, Burress/cotch doesn't sound too bad for next season. I really hoping we pick up bradshaw as well so we can use the line to patch up O line an defense.

cowherpower
04-17-2013, 02:13 AM
Gosh, you're an upbeat guy!:tt:

I understand what you're saying, and I agree with much of it, but the problem is that the Steelers were never limited financially the way they are now with the salary cap issues. They would find other parts of the team to strengthen and lean on until the new parts fit into place and were ready to perform. They can't just go out and get a great deal on a free agent that would solidify a unit of the team. They are forced to go almost exclusively through the draft, and hope the talent they draft can be developed into the players they need on the field almost immediately. They have always built through the draft, but were able to make key acquisitions in free agency to supplement the drafted talent. That ability has been taken away by the financial pinch they are in. In other words, they better do very well in this draft and the next. If they don't, they could be in a position very unfamiliar to them and to us as fans.

and they were not financial strapped quite as bad because it seemed like they let those aging players go i.e Brown, Woodson, Porter, Thigpen, Holmes, Plex, etc. before they killed the cap situtation. The Steelers really were the poster boys for knowing exactly when to do this. But they failed to do this w/Smith, Farrior, Hampton, and Troy. I think partly because they wanted to give it one and two more years w/this crew, but also because they failed to draft and develop and talent on the D side of the ball for so long. I agree that this draft is as important a draft I can remember. We SHOULD have the makings of a solid line, we have Ben, some receivers, a decent enough base for the D. We have to hit a couple of home runs preferably in the secondary and OLB and developmental WR whilest still somehow getting a RB. Can't wait for the draft!

Fire Arians
04-17-2013, 03:13 AM
*clap clap clapclapclap* Man-Ti-Teo!!!!

*sneaks out*

VaDave
04-17-2013, 07:10 AM
I remember back in the 90s, losing a ton of free agnets, right after the best year of their career. It was painful to watch Yancey Thigpen leave. It was even more painful to see Chad Brown playing for a different team. While Chris Hope's departure was not nearly as profound as those other two's, it created a similar feeling of "Argh!!!" And, that is merely the players that I can recall off the top of my head.

Then, there is Manny Sanders.

Some are saying that if Sanders has a stellar year, that he would then be too expensive to resign. To which, I say, good.

I have seen this time & time again, but not just with the Steelers... it happens to every team. Every year, I witness these young players playing hungry... seeking out a big contract. In turn, these young, hungry players put up ridiculous numbers... and then ask for the world in return. Alas, the team that drafted them usually can NOT match the offer (given by a team with lots of cap space), and thus, the young player leaves.

Vincent Jackson is the first name that comes to mind... followed by Mike Wallace.

Both of these wide-outs played very well for the teams that drafted them, and then went elsewhere (for oodles of cash). I can not fault those players; if a team offered me the world to play for them, I might just take it. The difference between $7 million per year and $12 million per year, is the difference between my children never having to worry about money and my grandchildren never having to worry about money. Money isn't everything, but it sure does help with paying college tuition.

Anyway, I digress.

The point is that after a short rookie contract, laden with stellar effort, I have seen these hungry players not produce once that contract is signed. Are they lazy? I do not think so. I just think that they peaked... or, better yet, that hungriness is gone.

Let's go back to the first thing that I said about Thigpen & Brown. They had the best year of their career years... and then left. The thing that we tend to forget is that they never really produced as well as they did when they were young & hungry.

Projecting that same pattern onto Sanders, I could see him having a break-out year... because, he is very hungry to prove himself. I could see him catching 80 balls for 1,200 yards, and 6 TDs. And then, I could see him becoming a player for another team.

But, what will we get when he leaves? Nothing. I disgree. The Steelers will have gotten a year of great production... a career year. Furthermore, Big Ben only has a few years left in the tank... and I do not really want to "waste" another year waiting for a new, R3 WR to develop. Do not get me wrong: draft another WR, hope that Sanders plays his tail off & has a career season, and then once Sanders leaves, insert that next guy.

Plax is to Tone, as Tone is to Wallace, as Wallace is to Sanders, as Sanders will be to Robert Woods.

In other words, getting the BEST year of a player's career is not a bad thing.

I'm not so sure it's a lack of hunger that slows them down, i's more like the fear of getting injured. Wallace was a classic example last year, who played exactly like a guy with a big check coming, but had to remain healthy to collect.

As for Sanders eventual departure, we will be drafting WRs in the next two drafts. We don't turn up a suitable replacement, we always have the option of a franchise tag, not that we would use it. unless like you say, he has his year of all years.....

steelerchad
04-17-2013, 08:33 AM
I would have preferred the 3rd round pick but i hear what you're saying. And speaking of Chad Brown, i think thats the greatest example of a player who should have stayed where he was, he was an superstar in Pittsburgh and could have solidified a stellar career instead of moving elsewhere and never quite being what he was here.

If he has a great year then leaves and has another great year, we'll get a 3rd round comp pick the following year anyway.
I'd rather have the great season and a 3-7 round comp pick.
Like Teegree says, a lot of players never play at top level again when they get the big contract.
You have to find a way to have a nice balance of veteran talent and young, cheap, hungry rookies. The new rookie salary cap, makes mid level 2nd contract guys expedable.

teegre
04-17-2013, 08:43 AM
If he has a great year then leaves and has another great year, we'll get a 3rd round comp pick the following year anyway.
I'd rather have the great season and a 3-7 round comp pick.
Like Teegree says, a lot of players never play at top level again when they get the big contract.
You have to find a way to have a nice balance of veteran talent and young, cheap, hungry rookies. The new rookie salary cap, makes mid level 2nd contract guys expedable.

Excellent point.

While the Steelers missed out on a R3 in this draft, if Sanders has a stellar year, once he does leave, the Steelers will likely garner a R4 pick (if not a R3 pick) for him.

So, the options are:
A R3 only ...or... a great year & a R4 pick in a later draft?

I'll take option B.

FrancoLambert
04-17-2013, 05:29 PM
I loved Bane's death. It took a fucking cannon to bring him down.

Ra's and Talia died from injuries from some lame crashes, Barsad was shot down, and Harvey got tackled like a bitch.

Me FTW.

Thanks guys, I still haven't seen TDKR. Nice to know how it ends! :chuckle:

harrison'samonster
04-17-2013, 05:33 PM
Batman wins!

Bane
04-17-2013, 05:37 PM
Thanks guys, I still haven't seen TDKR. Nice to know how it ends! :chuckle:

I win.

Batman wins!

Hey. It's a touchy subject.

harrison'samonster
04-17-2013, 05:39 PM
Hey. It's a touchy subject.

:rofl:

teegre
04-17-2013, 05:57 PM
Thanks guys, I still haven't seen TDKR. Nice to know how it ends! :chuckle:

D'oh. Sorry, man. :banging:

Other spoilers:
Despite having billions of dollars, and the ability to construct a suit that can deflect bullets, Bruce Wayne doesn't seem to have the assets nor the wherewithal to create a voice modulator, and thus he is reduced to talking in garbles, in order to disguise his voice.