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Livinginthe past
08-23-2006, 05:00 PM
Looks like 1st year rookie has done enough to beat out some strong competition from Martin Gramatica.

Im reasonably sure that some teams will have a look at this guy now that he has been released.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/

NM

tony hipchest
08-24-2006, 09:05 AM
some strong competition from Martin Gramatica.



NM

:rofl:

dan snyder might see if he has something left in the leg.

BlackNGold203
08-24-2006, 09:07 AM
wow....

From Viniteri to an untested rookie.....

How many games will THAT cost the Pats???

Cape Cod Steel Head
08-24-2006, 12:59 PM
wow....

From Viniteri to an untested rookie.....

How many games will THAT cost the Pats???I'm thinking at least three.:bouncy:

BlackNGold203
08-24-2006, 01:04 PM
In the AFC....just one game could cost you a playoff spot....

Livinginthe past
08-24-2006, 01:39 PM
As I keep saying the drop off between a rookie and Vinatieri in his prime is quite large - however I dont think that will be the Vinatieri we would have seen this year.

Being in a dome will boost his numbers for sure, helping both his accuracy and his length but I have my doubts as to whether he could have kicked a FG of the type that tied the game against the Raiders when the dynasty started.

Quite frankly saying that the Patriots will lose 3 extra regular games because of Adam's absence is nonsense - when the Patriots won their last two SB's they had a very healthy points differential - it was only in the post season that we came to rely on his golden leg.

Another bonus for Steeler fans - when/if we play you guys you may get a little closer to beating us without a WR who laterals the ball to the opposition. :chuckle:

NM

HometownGal
08-24-2006, 01:47 PM
As I keep saying the drop off between a rookie and Vinatieri in his prime is quite large - however I dont think that will be the Vinatieri we would have seen this year.

Being in a dome will boost his numbers for sure, helping both his accuracy and his length but I have my doubts as to whether he could have kicked a FG of the type that tied the game against the Raiders when the dynasty started.
Quite frankly saying that the Patriots will lose 3 extra regular games because of Adam's absence is nonsense - when the Patriots won their last two SB's they had a very healthy points differential - it was only in the post season that we came to rely on his golden leg.

Another bonus for Steeler fans - when/if we play you guys you may get a little closer to beating us without a WR who laterals the ball to the opposition. :chuckle:

NM

Maybe not, but he sure as heck could have kicked the tying field goal in the AFC playoff game last year against the Colts. There isn't a better pressure kicker in the league.

tony hipchest
08-24-2006, 02:11 PM
As I keep saying the drop off between a rookie and Vinatieri in his prime is quite large - however I dont think that will be the Vinatieri we would have seen this year.

Being in a dome will boost his numbers for sure, helping both his accuracy and his length but I have my doubts as to whether he could have kicked a FG of the type that tied the game against the Raiders when the dynasty started.

Quite frankly saying that the Patriots will lose 3 extra regular games because of Adam's absence is nonsense - when the Patriots won their last two SB's they had a very healthy points differential - it was only in the post season that we came to rely on his golden leg.

Another bonus for Steeler fans - when/if we play you guys you may get a little closer to beating us without a WR who laterals the ball to the opposition. :chuckle:

NMwhen the pats won their last 2 sb's they had crennell, weiss, vinatieri, givens, law, mcginest, etc. how was that points differential last year?

poor randle el. his career (and sb ring won in the game where he threw the nicest pass and became the only wr to toss a td in a sb) will be forever tarnished by that lateral against the pats. proof again that if you cant beat the pats, you cant be champs :rolleyes:

Cape Cod Steel Head
08-24-2006, 03:01 PM
As I keep saying the drop off between a rookie and Vinatieri in his prime is quite large - however I dont think that will be the Vinatieri we would have seen this year.

Being in a dome will boost his numbers for sure, helping both his accuracy and his length but I have my doubts as to whether he could have kicked a FG of the type that tied the game against the Raiders when the dynasty started.

Quite frankly saying that the Patriots will lose 3 extra regular games because of Adam's absence is nonsense - when the Patriots won their last two SB's they had a very healthy points differential - it was only in the post season that we came to rely on his golden leg.

Another bonus for Steeler fans - when/if we play you guys you may get a little closer to beating us without a WR who laterals the ball to the opposition. :chuckle:

NMRemember this 35% of all NFL games are won by 3 points or less.:bouncy:

Livinginthe past
08-24-2006, 03:37 PM
Remember this 35% of all NFL games are won by 3 points or less.:bouncy:

Well im not too sure where you get those particular stats from CCSH, but maybe they apply to more run-of-the-mill teams?

My calculations lead me to believe that Patriots regular season games over the last 3 years have been decided by an average of 11.71 points.

Furthermore, 7 out of the 48 regular season games over that span were decided by 3 points or less - which I calculate to be much less than 35% - the figure is actually 14.58%.

Feel free to do your own research - maybe the other teams in the league keep their games much closer than the Patriots.

NM

Livinginthe past
08-24-2006, 03:41 PM
when the pats won their last 2 sb's they had crennell, weiss, vinatieri, givens, law, mcginest, etc. how was that points differential last year?

poor randle el. his career (and sb ring won in the game where he threw the nicest pass and became the only wr to toss a td in a sb) will be forever tarnished by that lateral against the pats. proof again that if you cant beat the pats, you cant be champs :rolleyes:

As you ask, the points differential last year was an average of 11.68 points.

I think you may agree that 4 extra field goals is quite a stretch for most FG kickers.

When I say differential I am sure you realise that I am not talking purely about Patriots victories, but their losses too.

In other words, games that Adam could have affected with a swing of his golden leg.

NM

Mosca
08-24-2006, 03:51 PM
The first stat is useless, the second one is more valuable. But it might be worthwhile to see how many of those games that were decided by 3 points or less were victories; in the Pats' case, it wouldn't surprise me at all if ALL of them were victories. That guy was good.

edit: Average point difference is meaningless here; they could win one game by 60 and all the others could be 3 points. The actual number of games decided by a small margin is the stat we want to pay attention to.

It might cost them a game or two. Three would be a stretch, but it could happen. Or the new guy might be good, you never know with kickers; they come out of nowhere. We've sat through some years where guys couldn't find the uprights if they had big arrows saying "KICK IT HERE" pointed at them. It sucks.


Tom

Livinginthe past
08-24-2006, 04:10 PM
The first stat is useless, the second one is more valuable. But it might be worthwhile to see how many of those games that were decided by 3 points or less were victories; in the Pats' case, it wouldn't surprise me at all if ALL of them were victories. That guy was good.

edit: Average point difference is meaningless here; they could win one game by 60 and all the others could be 3 points. The actual number of games decided by a small margin is the stat we want to pay attention to.

It might cost them a game or two. Three would be a stretch, but it could happen. Or the new guy might be good, you never know with kickers; they come out of nowhere. We've sat through some years where guys couldn't find the uprights if they had big arrows saying "KICK IT HERE" pointed at them. It sucks.


Tom

While I agree the first stat is less relevant - it certainly isn't useless.

When a 'fact' such as 35% of games are decided by 3 points or less is proclaimed, I find it difficult to conflict with the fact that the average victory/loss is by an average 4 times greater.

Sure you get statistical anomalies but only 9 of those games were decided by 20+ points and the largest was 31.

I took the liberty of researching our win/loss ratio in 3 points or less games - we won 4 and lost 3 - hardly better than average.

There are plenty more factors to be considered.

Did Adam miss a kick that ensured any of these losses?

Did Adam kick the last points of the game, in effect winning it?

NM

Mosca
08-25-2006, 08:46 AM
Very interesting. I guess the guy just got that clutch rep from the Tuck Game, and it's stuck with him, like Maz got the clutch hitter rep from the '60 series.

Time will tell; I said, kickers are a strange bunch. The new kid might be the best ever, or the Pats could be looking to sign a guy mid-season.... and the real answer is probably in the middle somewhere. Mike & Mike were talking kickers this morning, and that was the one thing they said about Vinateri, that he wouldn't have missed the kick in the playoffs that Vanderjagt missed. He's got the ice in his veins, that's for sure. ('Course we don't KNOW that he wouldn't have missed, either.)


Tom

tony hipchest
08-25-2006, 09:27 AM
pat kirwan breaks down some stats and facts regarding rookie kickers. while the pats may be shaky from the 40+ yard range they should be alright from anywhere else compared to what they were last year. (unless the kid goes norwood or vanderjagt)

http://nfl.com/news/story/9617650

Livinginthe past
08-25-2006, 11:11 AM
The Patriots will be stonger from 40+ than they were last year.

40+ outdoors is beyond the 2005/6 Vinatieri.

NM

tony hipchest
08-25-2006, 11:47 AM
The Patriots will be stonger from 40+ than they were last year.

40+ outdoors is beyond the 2005/6 Vinatieri.

NM

sorry but kirwans fact based opinion trumps this one.

ExtonSteelFan
08-25-2006, 12:44 PM
The Patriots will be stonger from 40+ than they were last year.

40+ outdoors is beyond the 2005/6 Vinatieri.

NM

Vinatieri kicked a 43 yd FG to win the game last Sept. at Heinz Field and you just said 40+ is beyond the 05/06 Vinatieri?

Mosca
08-25-2006, 12:57 PM
One thing that needs to be taken into account is that the kicker doesn't exist independent of the rest of the game. How many times did Cowher elect to go for it, or punt short, because he knew Reed wouldn't have a good shot at a long kick in the Heinz wind?

The game will be played differently because of who's kicking. In the Pats' case, this might mean going for 4th and 3 at the 32 instead of kicking a 48 yarder... which might also mean 6 every now and then instead of 3.

Everything is interdependent on everything else.


Tom

Livinginthe past
08-25-2006, 01:14 PM
Vinatieri kicked a 43 yd FG to win the game last Sept. at Heinz Field and you just said 40+ is beyond the 05/06 Vinatieri?


On a predictable basis, yes.

There is something magical about Heinz field that inspires all Patriots to out-do themselves.

NM

tony hipchest
08-25-2006, 01:19 PM
On a predictable basis, yes.

There is something magical about Heinz field that inspires all Patriots to out-do themselves.

NMits called primantis sandwhiches. when 'chick farts on adams foot the whole team knows it.

ExtonSteelFan
08-25-2006, 09:02 PM
On a predictable basis, yes.

There is something magical about Heinz field that inspires all Patriots to out-do themselves.

NM

Oh, because that's not what you said earlier, but ok :rolleyes: