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SteelCityMom
05-07-2013, 09:03 PM
Delaware Becomes the 11th State to Allow Same-Sex Marriage

By ERIK ECKHOLM (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/e/erik_eckholm/index.html)

Published: May 7, 2013

Delaware on Tuesday became the 11th state to permit same-sex marriage (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/same_sex_marriage/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier), the latest in a string of victories for those working to extend marital rights to gay and lesbian couples.

The marriage bill passed the State Senate by a vote of 12 to 9 Tuesday afternoon.
“It’s a great day in Delaware,” said Gov. Jack Markell, a Democrat, who signed it within minutes of passage before an overjoyed crowd of activists. “I am signing this bill now because I do not intend to make any of you wait one moment longer.”
Same-sex couples will be eligible for marriage licenses on July 1.



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/08/us/delaware-to-allow-same-sex-marriage.html?_r=0

fer522
05-07-2013, 09:24 PM
Amen!!!

caplovestroyp43
05-08-2013, 01:01 AM
Barf me out, gag me with a spoon! Horrible. Just horrible. What IS the USA coming to? Where have morals and values gone?

Sad day indeed in our history. Horrible.

Vis
05-08-2013, 06:24 AM
Barf me out, gag me with a spoon! Horrible. Just horrible. What IS the USA coming to? Where have morals and values gone?

Sad day indeed in our history. Horrible.

This country is becoming less bigoted. It will never turn back. Sure the KKK still exists just as religious bigots will still exist but their ability to impose their twisted values on the country has faded.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/942475_10151423390861275_2021940572_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/946394_10151421796361275_2081787469_n.jpg

harrison'samonster
05-08-2013, 06:45 AM
Praise the Lord!

Buddha Bus
05-08-2013, 07:06 AM
Ahhhhh... the sweet smell of evolution, humanity, and progress. Congrats, Delaware!

Vis
05-08-2013, 07:08 AM
Long article




The French Parliament gave final approval to same-sex marriage on Tuesday, making France the fourteenth country in the world to have equal marriage rights nationwide. With a population of sixty-five million, it becomes the most populous country, and arguably the most politically significant, to do so. Christiane Taubira, the justice minister who sponsored the bill, proclaimed it “a generous law, and a law of equality.” Gay weddings could begin in France in June.

The new law had been a priority of France’s President, Franηois Hollande, but was strongly opposed by the Catholic Church and other religious denominations. Over the past few months, there have been a series of contentious and sometimes violent competing demonstrations and marches in Paris, and French police were alert to the possibility of more violence from the ultra-right wing; there were reports of some clashes overnight.

One question now is how the movement toward recognition of same-sex marriage globally, and especially in Europe, mirrors what we are seeing here in the United States, where political assumptions about the topic are changing rapidly. At what point does momentum make the controversial seem obvious? Eight other countries in Europe allow gay marriage (the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Norway, Sweden, Portugal, Iceland, and Denmark), as do Canada, Argentina, and South Africa. Earlier this month, two other countries, New Zealand and Uruguay, passed same-sex-marriage legislation. The United Kingdom, too, is actively considering a similar bill, which is supported by the government there and seems headed for passage this year.

In this country, as more states recognize gay unions—and the Supreme Court considers two cases on marriage equality—still others are moving rapidly in that direction. In Rhode Island, a state Senate committee advanced a marriage-equality bill on Tuesday after all five Republicans announced their support. A vote by the full state Senate there is anticipated this week, followed by another in the House, which has already approved a similar bill. If, as predicted, it passes, Rhode Island will become the tenth state to have marriage equality. It would join the rest of the New England states (Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont).

And Illinois, as I’ve written previously, is on the verge of adopting same-sex marriage. If it does, as expected, before the end of May, and before the Supreme Court decisions in June, it would be a big deal. It is not only a large state (fifth by population, with almost thirteen million people), it would be only the second state in the middle of the country to allow gay marriage (Iowa is the first). It would also be the second-largest state, after New York, to currently allow it. (California was, and would be again, the largest, if the Supreme Court strikes down Proposition 8, its gay-marriage ban)

In Illinois, prominent supporters like Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel are working hard to pass the bill; President Obama’s personal post-reλlection campaign committee is involved in the effort. Illinois Republican Senator Mark Kirk recently became only the second G.O.P. member of the Senate (after Ohio’s Senator Rob Portman) to endorse same-sex marriage, which was seen as a sign, among other things, that the state was about to enact a law. Even the head of the Republican Party in Illinois has announced his personal support—and he survived an attempt to oust him over his stance. Illinois’s Governor, Pat Quinn, a Democrat, has said that he would promptly sign the legislation.

Meanwhile, marriage legislation was recently introduced in Delaware, where Governor Jack Markell has advocated for and predicted passage. The Delaware house quickly passed the bill yesterday, and it now goes to the Senate. In Nevada, advocates recently began a multi-year process to amend the state’s constitution to remove the marriage ban. In Oregon, gay-marriage proponents are collecting signatures for a ballot initiative that would end its marriage restrictions. And advocates in New Mexico are trying to convince the courts there that current law does not restrict marriage to heterosexual couples.

And public opinion is continuing to move toward marriage equality. A new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll last week found that fifty-three per cent of Americans now favor allowing gays and lesbians to marry, a record high for that poll. The increases were led by Democrats and independents; the poll showed that twenty-seven per cent of Republicans now favor marriage rights.

That doesn’t mean the fight is over. At a recent meeting of the Republican National Committee, social conservatives still in control there were able to pass a resolution not only in opposition to same-sex marriage but asserting the constitutionality of DOMA. That action seemed a rebuke of the post-election R.N.C. “autopsy” report that suggested that Republicans reconsider their opposition. Ron Brownstein of the National Journal warned against being sanguine about a Republican transformation: “no one should underestimate the barriers to convergence [of state policy on gay marriage]. As more states tilt toward one or the other party, state policy is polarizing across many issues, from abortion to health care.” Similar conflicting trends were on display in Europe.

Still, political support for gay rights continues to gather momentum—according to a study for the Washington Post published earlier this month, in 2011 only fifteen U.S. Senators supported gay marriage. Today, fifty-one do. Obama’s announcement of his support is seen as a turning point. An analysis by Nate Silver for the Times, however, suggests that the overall rise in public support since 2006 has been more gradual and consistent, and did not necessarily accelerate over the past year. Silver has a model that predicts that by the next Presidential election, in 2016, a majority of voters in thirty-two of the fifty states will be supporters of same-sex marriage, including some purple and red states like Ohio, Nebraska, and North Dakota. This all suggests that there is a steady large-scale shift taking shape, which is likely to accelerate even further—here and abroad.

Most guesses about possible Supreme Court outcomes suggest that the growth of popular and political support would ease the reluctance, voiced by at least some of the Justices, to “getting ahead” of public opinion. There is also a scenario in which it has the opposite effect, persuading some Justices that the Court can ignore the constitutional issues and let the political process run its course. Progress toward marriage equality internationally could also affect some of the Justices, although there is a highly contentious left-right split on whether it is appropriate for the Supreme Court to look at international developments when formulating constitutional doctrine. The Court may feel that, far from getting ahead, it has fallen awkwardly behind not just the country but the world.

Vis
05-08-2013, 07:11 AM
as western democracies change the hold out red states will start losing bids for international manufacturing facilities.

Blue states will have changed. Swing states will be changing and becoming more blue because of this issue. But the flyover states will take financial incentive before they finally stop vilifying people

Buddha Bus
05-08-2013, 07:46 AM
I just find it rather entertaining, as well as dumbfounding, that a large segment of our population that purports to champion Constitutional rights and civil liberties when it comes to issues like the right to bear arms, privacy, freedom of religion, and free speech can, in good conscience, attempt to deny basic civil rights and human decency to another large segment of the population in regards to marriage equality, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

These so-called "patriots" apparently ignore whatever parts of the Constitution they wish to if it suits their own tastes or personal moral belief system, while also ignoring the facts that gay people aren't harming them in any way whatsoever by getting married and that not everyone follows the same belief system. People are free to believe whatever they wish in this country without being persecuted by the government for their beliefs. It's one of the basic principles this country was founded on. I don't recall reading in the Constitution that all men are created equal and afforded the same rights under said document... unless you're "queer".

History will bear out that the people who fought against basic equal rights for homosexuals will be looked at in the same light as people who fought against equal rights for African Americans and women in this country down the road.... and rightfully so.

Vis
05-08-2013, 07:48 AM
I just find it rather entertaining, as well as dumbfounding, that a large segment of our population that purports to champion Constitutional rights and civil liberties when it comes to issues like the right to bear arms, privacy, freedom of religion, and free speech can, in good conscience, attempt to deny basic civil rights and human decency to another large segment of the population in regards to marriage equality, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

These so-called "patriots" apparently ignore whatever parts of the Constitution they wish to if it suits their own tastes or personal moral belief system, while also ignoring the facts that gay people aren't harming them in any way whatsoever by getting married and that not everyone follows the same belief system. People are free to believe whatever they wish in this country without being persecuted by the government for their beliefs. It's one of the basic principles this country was founded on. I don't recall reading in the Constitution that all men are created equal and afforded the same rights under said document... unless you're "queer".

History will bear out that the people who fought against basic equal rights for homosexuals will be looked at in the same light as people who fought against equal rights for African Americans and women in this country down the road.... and rightfully so.

Well written and less snarky than I would have been. Applause.

Buddha Bus
05-08-2013, 07:50 AM
Well written and less snarky than I would have been. Applause.

Thank you, sir. :hatsoff: :bow:

Vis
05-08-2013, 08:06 AM
http://FunnyOrDie.com/m/800c

Buddha Bus
05-08-2013, 08:25 AM
"He doesn't care whether the couple just met on a drunken trip to Vegas, a reality show, or if they're only marrying for a green card. Dale would let any two idiots marry... unless those two idiots are gay." :rofl:

George Takei rules!

Vis
05-08-2013, 08:31 AM
"He doesn't care whether the couple just met on a drunken trip to Vegas, a reality show, or if they're only marrying for a green card. Dale would let any two idiots marry... unless those two idiots are gay." :rofl:

George Takei rules!

I'll let you quote the last line.

SteelCityMom
05-08-2013, 08:36 AM
What IS the USA coming to?

Hopefully in the direction that follows the Constitution. There's no legal basis to prevent two consenting adults, of sound mind and body, from entering into a contract. That is illegal, and goes against the 14th amendment.

I know lots of people find it icky and gross...so that's why they find it easy for them to ignore the Constitution in this instance. Like Buddha said though, you can't pick and choose what laws you want to follow. That works for the Bible as well.

Where have morals and values gone?

Which morals and values? The ones that made it ok to rape slave women, or the ones that made it ok to keep interracial marriage illegal? Must have been the ones that said women can't vote, and allowed a certain amount of violence towards them from their husbands, without repercussions. Ahhh...those were the days!

SteelCityMom
05-08-2013, 08:41 AM
as western democracies change the hold out red states will start losing bids for international manufacturing facilities.

Blue states will have changed. Swing states will be changing and becoming more blue because of this issue. But the flyover states will take financial incentive before they finally stop vilifying people

Red states can be real idiots sometimes. It's quite easy to reconcile this with Constitutionality. These idiotic moral battles they keep trying to fight are going to kill them off...and it'll be their own fault. If they just actually believed in personal liberty and freedom, they could rule the world! :muhaha:

teegre
05-08-2013, 08:41 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb-JZSyhWSc

"Two guys are in love, but they can't get married, because you don't want to talk to your child for five minutes???"

SteelCityMom
05-08-2013, 08:45 AM
Ewen McGregor is damned beautiful. :chuckle:

caplovestroyp43
05-08-2013, 11:47 AM
[QUOTE=Vis;1114928]This country is becoming less bigoted. It will never turn back. Sure the KKK still exists just as religious bigots will still exist but their ability to impose their twisted values on the country has faded. :blah::blah::blah:

Isaiah 5:20:

Woe be to those who call good evil and evil good

God

Buddha Bus
05-08-2013, 11:58 AM
Isaiah 5:20:

Woe be to those who call good evil and evil good

God

Whew! Lucky for me I don't believe in God. http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/images/smilies/whew.gif

Vis
05-08-2013, 12:07 PM
[QUOTE=Vis;1114928]This country is becoming less bigoted. It will never turn back. Sure the KKK still exists just as religious bigots will still exist but their ability to impose their twisted values on the country has faded. :blah::blah::blah:

Isaiah 5:20:

Woe be to those who call good evil and evil good

God

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)

As a man I say, hush now lowly female, follow the Father.

Vis
05-08-2013, 12:20 PM
Oh, since we're quoting that incredible tome...

“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)

"Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." (Psalm 137:9)

"Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)

"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property." (Leviticus 25:44-45)

"But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the ***** in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you." (Deuteronomy 22: 20-21)

"For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken. No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God." (Leviticus 21:18-21)


So I say unto you, who wants this shit to be true?

MasterOfPuppets
05-08-2013, 07:41 PM
here is some bible verses that "christians" so conveniently seem to forget...they claim to live their lives by the teachings of the bible , but yet despite what it says about judging others they feel it is their place to do just that.
if you truly believe in the word of God , then why are they always condemning the actions of people who have zero affect on their own personal lives ? unburden yourselves christians...its Gods job to judge the gays not yours.
it's this kinda behavior that inspired this quote from gandi...
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."


Luke 6:37 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+6%3A37&version=ESV)

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;




James 4:11-12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+4%3A11-12&version=ESV)

Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?






Romans 14:1-13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+14%3A1-13&version=ESV)

As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ...





James 1:26 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+1%3A26&version=ESV)

If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.



Isaiah 11:3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+11%3A3&version=ESV)

And his delight shall be in the fear of the Lord. He shall not judge by what his eyes see, or decide disputes by what his ears hear,

SteelCityMom
05-08-2013, 08:31 PM
This girl might need some aloe for her burn...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/944230_659348437427946_282784325_n.jpg

harrison'samonster
05-08-2013, 08:55 PM
hey SCMom, is that signature from Dr. Who?

Vis
05-08-2013, 08:59 PM
hey SCMom, is that signature from Dr. Who?

Blink.......

harrison'samonster
05-08-2013, 09:03 PM
i thought it was from that episode. that's a great one!

MACH1
05-08-2013, 10:22 PM
hey SCMom, is that signature from Dr. Who?

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQcQ5jiMpvD5OA5VoM1OuzNkp-OxeRx7KrNygWk_fxXOPzVPNjA

Duh...Should READ the words and not look at the pictures.

SteelCityMom
05-08-2013, 10:30 PM
Words are from Doctor Who, image is MST3K....two greatest shows ever. :thumbsup:

Bayz101
05-08-2013, 11:38 PM
This girl might need some aloe for her burn...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/944230_659348437427946_282784325_n.jpg

Wonder if that woman knows it's a sin to curse? Making good Christians look bad.

JonM229
05-09-2013, 10:30 AM
It's a sin to curse? Looks like I'm going to fucking burn.

Just kidding, there is no hell

Vis
05-09-2013, 10:48 AM
It's a sin to curse? Looks like I'm going to fucking burn.

Just kidding, there is no hell

Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.

Bane
05-10-2013, 01:46 AM
And, just like that, millions of heterosexual marriages were ruined by the pestilence of gay marriage.


















Oh, wait. No, they weren't. Props to Delaware. :thumbsup:

ricardisimo
05-10-2013, 03:31 AM
Now I know why my own marriage failed... because my ex-wife and I are both straight. :noidea:

Buddha Bus
05-10-2013, 05:31 AM
Now I know why my own marriage failed... because my ex-wife and I are both straight. :noidea:

Freaks.

Vis
05-10-2013, 05:39 AM
Now I know why my own marriage failed... because my ex-wife and I are both straight. :noidea:

Mine failed because I'm straight and she had a left handed thread

ricardisimo
05-10-2013, 05:54 AM
This should go in the "What are you listening to now" thread, but it seemed more appropriate here for some strange reason:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVyS9JwtFoQ

The_Joker
05-10-2013, 05:56 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_90eOj6iWXI

Rise Against made a song on this subject.

Buddha Bus
05-10-2013, 05:59 AM
Since we're posting videos about the subject, I'll repost this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlVBg7_08n0

Vis
05-10-2013, 08:06 AM
One church shuns Leroy Butler, another church welcomes him


Last week we noted that former Packers safety Leroy Butler had been told not to come to a Wisconsin church where he had been scheduled to give a speech, because the church was upset Butler wrote a message on Twitter in support of openly gay NBA player Jason Collins. But this week Butler has found a church where he’s welcome.

St. Dunstan’s Episcopal Church in Madison will have Butler in next month to talk to young people about bullying, which was the same message he was scheduled to give at the church appearance that was canceled.

“We are a religion that is about standing up next to those who are struggling, who are excluded, who are marginalized,” St. Dunstan’s Rector Miranda Hassett told NBC 15 in Madison.

Butler, who delivers speeches to schools and church youth groups several times a year, is in the process of raising money to make a documentary about his anti-bullying efforts.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/10/one-church-shuns-leroy-butler-another-church-welcomes-him/

Bane
05-10-2013, 11:04 AM
Now I know why my own marriage failed... because my ex-wife and I are both straight. :noidea:

Is she an amputee?

I'm gonna feel really bad if she is. :chuckle:

caplovestroyp43
05-10-2013, 01:09 PM
One church shuns Leroy Butler, another church welcomes him


Last week we noted that former Packers safety Leroy Butler had been told not to come to a Wisconsin church where he had been scheduled to give a speech, because the church was upset Butler wrote a message on Twitter in support of openly gay NBA player Jason Collins. But this week Butler has found a church where he’s welcome.

St. Dunstan’s Episcopal Church in Madison will have Butler in next month to talk to young people about bullying, which was the same message he was scheduled to give at the church appearance that was canceled.

“We are a religion that is about standing up next to those who are struggling, who are excluded, who are marginalized,” St. Dunstan’s Rector Miranda Hassett told NBC 15 in Madison.

Butler, who delivers speeches to schools and church youth groups several times a year, is in the process of raising money to make a documentary about his anti-bullying efforts.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/10/one-church-shuns-leroy-butler-another-church-welcomes-him/

Yeah for that church to stand up for the right morals and values! Good for them. Ahh yes, restores my faith in humanity.

:thumbsup:

caplovestroyp43
05-10-2013, 01:13 PM
This girl might need some aloe for her burn...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/944230_659348437427946_282784325_n.jpg

I totally agree with the this twitter post BUT she lost me, after quoting Scripture, and used the "F" word. THAT is not cool. Absolutely destroyed her credibility with me there. Shame on her!

jacobo
05-10-2013, 01:15 PM
Yeah for that church to stand up for the right morals and values! Good for them. Ahh yes, restores my faith in humanity.

:thumbsup:

segregation and discrimination by association restores your faith in humanity?

wow.

Vis
05-10-2013, 01:34 PM
segregation and discrimination by association restores your faith in humanity?

wow.

She likes the whole celestial dictator thing. She wants to be judged for thought crimes and enjoys contemplating others eternal torment in hellfire while she has an eternity of cream cakes and harp music. It's really the desire to be a slave because she knows that if some old book (one she probably never read cover to cover) doesn't tell her how to act, her innate self would be killing people indiscriminately. I'm sure she was glad she was a virgin on her wedding night or her father would have killed her, as the good book says. Right after it says slavery is ok and so is killing all children of a different tribe. You know, biblical morals.

And when children get bone cancer, God is mysterious. When she gets a good mortgage rate, God was looking out for her because she's so special.

Christianity, to sum up, is both the desire for servitude to a capricious father figure and the epitome of narcissism.

Snarky?

jacobo
05-10-2013, 01:39 PM
I couldn't have said it better myself vis.

JonM229
05-10-2013, 03:02 PM
"Oh Sky Cake, why are you so delicious?"
-Patton Oswalt

SteelCityMom
05-10-2013, 03:06 PM
I totally agree with the this twitter post BUT she lost me, after quoting Scripture, and used the "F" word. THAT is not cool. Absolutely destroyed her credibility with me there. Shame on her!

She lost credibility with me when she decided to ignore the parts of scripture that proved her to be a hypocrite. According to her beliefs, she should be executed right alongside the homosexuals that she feels should be executed. It's God's will.

Which piece of scripture that was referenced in that post are you referring to...the one that says homosexuals are an abomination and should be executed, or the one that says non virgin females who try to marry should be executed?

The_Joker
05-10-2013, 03:07 PM
I totally agree with the this twitter post BUT she lost me, after quoting Scripture, and used the "F" word. THAT is not cool. Absolutely destroyed her credibility with me there. Shame on her!

I love how the bad thing with that is how she cursed.

You're a :donkey:hole

SteelCityMom
05-10-2013, 03:12 PM
Yeah for that church to stand up for the right morals and values! Good for them. Ahh yes, restores my faith in humanity.

:thumbsup:

Agreed...the Episcipal church in Madison did the right thing by not being judgy. :wink02:

Buddha Bus
05-10-2013, 03:13 PM
Agreed...the Episcipal church in Madison did the right thing by not being judgy. :wink02:

There's a crass joke in there about "judgy" and "fudgy" somewhere. You'll have to excuse me.... I'm really tired.

Vis
05-10-2013, 03:18 PM
"Oh Sky Cake, why are you so delicious?"
-Patton Oswalt

What if there is a Heaven but only atheists get to go?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3ha18O1dAI

caplovestroyp43
05-10-2013, 11:46 PM
She lost credibility with me when she decided to ignore the parts of scripture that proved her to be a hypocrite. According to her beliefs, she should be executed right alongside the homosexuals that she feels should be executed. It's God's will.

Which piece of scripture that was referenced in that post are you referring to...the one that says homosexuals are an abomination and should be executed, or the one that says non virgin females who try to marry should be executed?

Hey Mom,

Believe it or not, I am a 49 year old virgin. I know that's hard to believe but it is the truth soo....I'm referring the Scripture that states homosexuality is an abomination.

I know that I'm never going to marry so I'll probably die a virgin which is cool with me. I was very lucky in my childhood when being sexually abused that son of a bitch never penetrated me. That's kind of why I have a big problem with men in general although I have to say the male friends I have made here on the other board we lost are great!

Sex to me is filthy no matter how you add it up simply because that is how I learned about it. BARF!!!! I've got better things to do with my time.

:tt02:

SteelCityMom
05-11-2013, 12:01 AM
Hey Mom,

Believe it or not, I am a 49 year old virgin. I know that's hard to believe but it is the truth soo....I'm referring the Scripture that states homosexuality is an abomination.

I know that I'm never going to marry so I'll probably die a virgin which is cool with me. I was very lucky in my childhood when being sexually abused that son of a bitch never penetrated me. That's kind of why I have a big problem with men in general although I have to say the male friends I have made here on the other board we lost are great!

Sex to me is filthy no matter how you add it up simply because that is how I learned about it. BARF!!!! I've got better things to do with my time.

:tt02:

Hey, to each their own. I'm not going to tell you to live any other way. I was basically just trying to find out if you agreed with the scripture that orders the death of non-virgin women who try to marry. There's a lot of shady stuff in the bible that people choose to ignore. I'm willing to bet (or hope at least) that you don't agree with the passages that deal with slavery, or the ones that deal with forcing a rape victim to marry their rapist. Stuff like that. I find the picking and choosing (among many Christians) disturbing to say the least. I hope you do realize, that by agreeing with the scripture that was posted (that calls homosexuality an abomination), that means you feel they should be executed. Otherwise you are going against the word of God, or maybe, just maybe, you don't feel the bible should be taken literally.

Why is it acceptable to fervently promote some passages, but not others? I've never once in my life been given a clear answer on this (I was actually chastised in Sunday school many times for bringing up questions like these). It's a huge turn off to the faith in general.

Bane
05-11-2013, 01:08 AM
The Bible is nothing more than a book of really awful stories.

It doesn't even have any halfway decent plot or character development. The writers sucked.

ricardisimo
05-11-2013, 01:20 AM
The Bible is nothing more than a book of really awful stories.

It doesn't even have any halfway decent plot or character development. The writers sucked.
But the suspense! You just don't know if god's going to win in the end!



Oh, wait...


There's always the naughty bits:

Ezekial 23:19-20

"Yet she increased her prostitution, remembering the days of her youth when she engaged in prostitution in the land of Egypt. She lusted after their genitals as large as those of donkeys, and their seminal emission was as strong as that of stallions."


Deuteronomy 23:1

"No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord."


Psalm 137:9

“Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”

Bane
05-11-2013, 01:32 AM
I want to know more about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Eve

ricardisimo
05-11-2013, 01:32 AM
Why is it acceptable to fervently promote some passages, but not others? I've never once in my life been given a clear answer on this (I was actually chastised in Sunday school many times for bringing up questions like these). It's a huge turn off to the faith in general.
Welcome to Nietzsche's world. He was a philologist after all, studying interpretations of scripture. The light finally went on in his head which has to come on in every divinity student's head who isn't a complete moron: Once I allow for interpretation, the bible suddenly becomes meaningful, but completely loses all authority.

Which is of course the point.

ricardisimo
05-11-2013, 01:43 AM
I want to know more about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Eve


"The reference to thunder is curious..."
:rofl:

Vis
05-11-2013, 03:16 AM
Why is it acceptable to fervently promote some passages, but not others? I've never once in my life been given a clear answer on this (I was actually chastised in Sunday school many times for bringing up questions like these). It's a huge turn off to the faith in general.

That's how you use the book as a tool to hurt those you want to hurt, get away with what you want to get away with and collect groups of superior acting, self-satisfied people.

caplovestroyp43
05-11-2013, 11:56 AM
>> I hope you do realize, that by agreeing with the scripture that was posted (that calls homosexuality an abomination), that means you feel they should be executed.<<

I agree with the fact that it is an abomination and destible and against God. I didn't say it, God did and that is who I follow. They have been warned; what they do is their CHOICE.

SteelCityMom
05-11-2013, 12:09 PM
>> I hope you do realize, that by agreeing with the scripture that was posted (that calls homosexuality an abomination), that means you feel they should be executed.<<

I agree with the fact that it is an abomination and destible and against God. I didn't say it, God did and that is who I follow. They have been warned; what they do is their CHOICE.

You still haven't touched on your feelings of slavery and rapist marriage in the bible, or the stoning of children, etc. etc. Why avoid (ignore would be the better word actually) those obvious examples of pure ugliness? Why aren't you advocating taking conquered nations civilians as slaves and rape toys? God said it and that's who you follow, correct?

If you're going to follow one passage literally, you have to follow them all. Otherwise you are picking and choosing to suit your own beliefs.

Vis
05-11-2013, 01:47 PM
That's what all Christians do. They have to do that because huge portions of that book is pure evil. Once they begin the cherry picking, what they follow is a window to their souls. If there is hate inside they can find justification for the hate in the book. If they like shellfish, ignore that part, think sex is dirty, concentrate on that part. Want to say dark skin is a punishment from God, pick the right book. If you like killing those who won't obey you, any of the books will work.

Caps problem, and why she never answers the questions put to her, is that her faith is unexamined and thus, not worth having. She simply has no answer to why she can wear fabric blends while using the same old writing to condemn others for loving who they love. (Cap, google the fabric blend reference if it's a new one for you)

Bane
05-11-2013, 02:17 PM
>> I hope you do realize, that by agreeing with the scripture that was posted (that calls homosexuality an abomination), that means you feel they should be executed.<<

I agree with the fact that it is an abomination and destible and against God. I didn't say it, God did and that is who I follow. They have been warned; what they do is their CHOICE.

God didn't say it. Some asshole did and wrote it in a book because he hated gay people. You're following that asshole.

By the way, gay marriage was around before Christianity. And it wasn't a "thing", because it was viewed as perfectly normal.

Vis
05-11-2013, 03:10 PM
Unless you’ve never done any of these things banned in Leviticus (and 54 to 56 are particularly tricky), perhaps it’s time to lay off quoting 18:22 for a while?

1. Burning any yeast or honey in offerings to God (2:11)

2. Failing to include salt in offerings to God (2:13)

3. Eating fat (3:17)

4. Eating blood (3:17)

5. Failing to testify against any wrongdoing you’ve witnessed (5:1)

6. Failing to testify against any wrongdoing you’ve been told about (5:1)

7. Touching an unclean animal (5:2)

8. Carelessly making an oath (5:4)

9. Deceiving a neighbour about something trusted to them (6:2)

10. Finding lost property and lying about it (6:3)

11. Bringing unauthorised fire before God (10:1)

12. Letting your hair become unkempt (10:6)

13. Tearing your clothes (10:6)

14. Drinking alcohol in holy places (bit of a problem for Catholics, this ‘un) (10:9)

15. Eating an animal which doesn’t both chew cud and has a divided hoof (cf: camel, rabbit, pig) (11:4-7)

16. Touching the carcass of any of the above (problems here for rugby) (11:8)

17. Eating – or touching the carcass of – any seafood without fins or scales (11:10-12)

18. Eating – or touching the carcass of - eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, the red kite, any kind of black kite, any kind of raven, the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat. (11:13-19)

19. Eating – or touching the carcass of – flying insects with four legs, unless those legs are jointed (11:20-22)

20. Eating any animal which walks on all four and has paws (good news for cats) (11:27)

21. Eating – or touching the carcass of – the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard, the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon (11:29)

22. Eating – or touching the carcass of – any creature which crawls on many legs, or its belly (11:41-42)

23. Going to church within 33 days after giving birth to a boy (12:4)

24. Going to church within 66 days after giving birth to a girl (12:5)

25. Having sex with your mother (18:7)

26. Having sex with your father’s wife (18:8)

27. Having sex with your sister (18:9)

28. Having sex with your granddaughter (18:10)

29. Having sex with your half-sister (18:11)

30. Having sex with your biological aunt (18:12-13)

31. Having sex with your uncle’s wife (18:14)

32. Having sex with your daughter-in-law (18:15)

33. Having sex with your sister-in-law (18:16)

34. Having sex with a woman and also having sex with her daughter or granddaughter (bad news for Alan Clark) (18:17)

35. Marrying your wife’s sister while your wife still lives (18:18)

36. Having sex with a woman during her period (18:19)

37. Having sex with your neighbour’s wife (18:20)

38. Giving your children to be sacrificed to Molek (18:21)

39. Having sex with a man “as one does with a woman” (18:22)

40. Having sex with an animal (18:23)

41. Making idols or “metal gods” (19:4)

42. Reaping to the very edges of a field (19:9)

43. Picking up grapes that have fallen in your vineyard (19:10)

44. Stealing (19:11)

45. Lying (19:11)

46. Swearing falsely on God’s name (19:12)

47. Defrauding your neighbour (19:13)

48. Holding back the wages of an employee overnight (not well observed these days) (19:13)

49. Cursing the deaf or abusing the blind (19:14)

50. Perverting justice, showing partiality to either the poor or the rich (19:15)

51. Spreading slander (19:16)

52. Doing anything to endanger a neighbour’s life (19:16)

53. Seeking revenge or bearing a grudge (19:18)

54. Mixing fabrics in clothing (19:19)

55. Cross-breeding animals (19:19)

56. Planting different seeds in the same field (19:19)

57. Sleeping with another man’s slave (19:20)

58. Eating fruit from a tree within four years of planting it (19:23)

59. Practising divination or seeking omens (tut, tut astrology) (19:26)

60. Trimming your beard (19:27)

61. Cutting your hair at the sides (19:27)

62. Getting tattoos (19:28)

63. Making your daughter prostitute herself (19:29)

64. Turning to mediums or spiritualists (19:31)

65. Not standing in the presence of the elderly (19:32)

66. Mistreating foreigners – “the foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born” (19:33-34)

67. Using dishonest weights and scales (19:35-36)

68. Cursing your father or mother (punishable by death) (20:9)

69. Marrying a prostitute, divorcee or widow if you are a priest (21:7,13)

70. Entering a place where there’s a dead body as a priest (21:11)

71. Slaughtering a cow/sheep and its young on the same day (22:28)

72. Working on the Sabbath (23:3)

73. Blasphemy (punishable by stoning to death) (24:14)

74. Inflicting an injury; killing someone else’s animal; killing a person must be punished in kind (24:17-22)

75. Selling land permanently (25:23)

76. Selling an Israelite as a slave (foreigners are fine) (25:42)

SteelCityMom
05-11-2013, 03:42 PM
That's what all Christians do. They have to do that because huge portions of that book is pure evil. Once they begin the cherry picking, what they follow is a window to their souls. If there is hate inside they can find justification for the hate in the book. If they like shellfish, ignore that part, think sex is dirty, concentrate on that part. Want to say dark skin is a punishment from God, pick the right book. If you like killing those who won't obey you, any of the books will work.

Caps problem, and why she never answers the questions put to her, is that her faith is unexamined and thus, not worth having. She simply has no answer to why she can wear fabric blends while using the same old writing to condemn others for loving who they love. (Cap, google the fabric blend reference if it's a new one for you)

I don't like pigeon holing all Christians this way. Many people who are dear to me are Christians who recognize that much of the bible is allegorical and/or a historical reference guide. Quite a few of them even openly admit that while they believe in God and the messages of Jesus, they realize it was a text written by man and cannot be 100% accurate....therefore they do not take it literally.

I have just never been able to get a straight and honest answer from those who feel it is completely accurate and should not be questioned.


–––––––––––––––––––––

Cap, I honestly would respect your answers and beliefs more if you were honest and forthcoming with them. How you can state in one thread that you are against the mistreatment of homosexuals, and then state you belive absolutely in the scripture that states they should be executed is dishonest on your part. It's one or the other. I'm also interested on your take of the other scripture I asked about, and if you believe those to be God's will. I won't judge you if you say slavery and rapist marriage is ok...I just want an honest answer.

Vis
05-11-2013, 05:03 PM
SCMom, you are opening up another huge debate on any claims of historical accuracy in the bible and how people who don't take it literally decide what they believe on questions of God's intervention in human lives, etc...

Join me in the anti-theist thread for that discussion if you like. Here, I'll stick to applauding the Minnesota house for passing their gay marriage bill. It could be the law of that state by the end of next week making them the 12th state to live up the ideals of enlightenment so dear to the architects of our republic.

caplovestroyp43
05-11-2013, 07:32 PM
I don't like pigeon holing all Christians this way. Many people who are dear to me are Christians who recognize that much of the bible is allegorical and/or a historical reference guide. Quite a few of them even openly admit that while they believe in God and the messages of Jesus, they realize it was a text written by man and cannot be 100% accurate....therefore they do not take it literally.

I have just never been able to get a straight and honest answer from those who feel it is completely accurate and should not be questioned.


–––––––––––––––––––––

Cap, I honestly would respect your answers and beliefs more if you were honest and forthcoming with them. How you can state in one thread that you are against the mistreatment of homosexuals, and then state you belive absolutely in the scripture that states they should be executed is dishonest on your part. It's one or the other. I'm also interested on your take of the other scripture I asked about, and if you believe those to be God's will. I won't judge you if you say slavery and rapist marriage is ok...I just want an honest answer.

OK let me clarify something. Especially for Vis who thinks he, she, it knows it all. I was sexually abused as a child, did you miss that? That's why I think sex is gross. If that happened to you, you may be able to comprehend it though I highly doubt it. My beliefs about sex itself is not from the Bible. It's from a horrible, horrible time in my childhood that was ruined and stolen from me because I was only 12 when it started. I was a child for God's sake and to this day I'll never figure out WHY or WHAT I did to turn on a 62 year old man. I wrestle with it a lot.

My mom and I were talking about this today. I was telling her about this debate and how folks have been lambasting me because I dare speak out against the homosexual agenda. All the stuff you mention, that was pre Jesus and the Old Testament. According to my mother we are living the New Testament and therefore those were the old laws. I believe rapists should be castrated and thrown under a jail but my views on disciplining a child aren't real good because of how I was raised with a fairly heavy fist. I was to be seen and not heard and I did the world a favor and decided against not having children because I myself would probably be horribly abusive and I know that tendency is there because it's all I knew growing up. I was so afraid of my father at one point, I used to listen to him walk across the grass. So I hope that answers your question. Should a person be forced to marry the one who rapes her? Of course not! Should children be beaten with stones, etc.? No. Discipline in moderation is fine with me. Beating and abusing is not which is something I KNOW I would have a pension towards doing.

SteelCityMom
05-11-2013, 07:39 PM
All the stuff you mention, that was pre Jesus and the Old Testament. According to my mother we are living the New Testament and therefore those were the old laws.

You do realize that the scripture you keep quoting that calls gays an abomination and says they should be executed is from the OT, right?

So I ask again, why are you using that scripture as an example of laws we should follow, and not the others that you don't like?

SteelCityMom
05-11-2013, 08:05 PM
Jesus on homosexuality...

“Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.” (Matthew 19:11-12)

Here Jesus identifies three classes of men who should not marry women. Taking his categories in reverse order, first, there are those who have made themselves “eunuchs” for the kingdom of heaven, i.e., those who foreswear marriage to better serve God. Second, he mentions those who have been “made eunuchs by others,” an apparent reference to castrated males. But Jesus mentions a third category — eunuchs who were born that way. Some might argue that Jesus was referring to males born without testicles, but this would be extremely rare. Moreover, this interpretation ignores how the term “born eunuchs” was used in other literature of the time.

In the ancient world, including ancient Jewish culture (as reflected in the Talmud), “natural” or “born” eunuchs were not associated with missing testicles. Rather, they were associated with stereotypically effeminate characteristics and behavior (just like modern gay men), and were thought by Rabbi Eliezer to be subject to “cure” (just like modern gays). Eunuchs were commonly associated with homosexual desire.

--------------

Apostle Peter says, “God shows no partiality.” (Acts 10:34)

The grace of God is available to gay people on the same basis as all other humans. That is what the story of Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch is all about.

Vis
05-11-2013, 08:34 PM
OK let me clarify something. Especially for Vis who thinks he, she, it knows it all. I was sexually abused as a child, did you miss that? That's why I think sex is gross. If that happened to you, you may be able to comprehend it though I highly doubt it. My beliefs about sex itself is not from the Bible. It's from a horrible, horrible time in my childhood that was ruined and stolen from me because I was only 12 when it started. I was a child for God's sake and to this day I'll never figure out WHY or WHAT I did to turn on a 62 year old man. I wrestle with it a lot.

My mom and I were talking about this today. I was telling her about this debate and how folks have been lambasting me because I dare speak out against the homosexual agenda. All the stuff you mention, that was pre Jesus and the Old Testament. According to my mother we are living the New Testament and therefore those were the old laws. I believe rapists should be castrated and thrown under a jail but my views on disciplining a child aren't real good because of how I was raised with a fairly heavy fist. I was to be seen and not heard and I did the world a favor and decided against not having children because I myself would probably be horribly abusive and I know that tendency is there because it's all I knew growing up. I was so afraid of my father at one point, I used to listen to him walk across the grass. So I hope that answers your question. Should a person be forced to marry the one who rapes her? Of course not! Should children be beaten with stones, etc.? No. Discipline in moderation is fine with me. Beating and abusing is not which is something I KNOW I would have a pension towards doing.



I get your history. Get help. Try for a better understanding. Don't let what happened to you poison your outlook on others.

ANd don't use Leviticus against gays just because you can't muster the compassion for them you have for children. That's a you problem

Vis
05-11-2013, 08:35 PM
Cap, why do you think the OT doesn't apply in the NT mythology?

1) “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.

2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

3b) "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)

3c) "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)

4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7)

6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)

7) Peter says that all slaves should “be subject to [their] masters with all fear,” to the bad and cruel as well as the “good and gentle.” This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18

8) “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

9) “...the scripture cannot be broken.” --Jesus Christ, John 10:35

SteelCityMom
05-11-2013, 09:07 PM
Anyway...all this biblical talk really has no place in this conversation, since this is an issue of constitutionality. We are not a theocracy, and therefore do not shape our laws strictly around the bible.

I, as a non-religious heterosexual, have the same freedom to enter into a legal contract as a religious heterosexual. That alone is legal basis to allow homosexuals to enter into the same legal contracts.

Anything else is moot. Personal beliefs are not a legal basis to restrict the constitutional rights of others.

Vis
05-11-2013, 10:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWp79jvy9aA

Bane
05-11-2013, 10:28 PM
The New Testament vs. Old Testament argument is bullshit, too. There's plenty of awful stuff (admittedly, though, not as awful) in the New Testament.

Either way, it's still picking and choosing, no matter how you put it.

New Testament Bible verses Xtians tend to ignore

Bible Verses Christians Tend to Ignore (New Testament)

Don’t Get Married: 1st Corinthians 7:27 NASB

Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be released. Are you released from a wife? Do not seek a wife.

Prayer (not doctors) if You’re Sick: James 5:14 NASB

Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up.

Women Should Shut Up in Church: 1st Corinthians 14:34 NASB

The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak.

The Wealthy Will Be Condemned by God: James 5:1-5 NASB

Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted… Your gold and your silver have rusted; and their rust will… consume your flesh like fire. You have lived luxuriously on the earth and led a life of wanton pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter.

Women: Don’t Dress Up, Fix Your Hair, or Wear Jewelry: 1st Peter 3:3 The Good News Translation

You should not use outward aids to make yourselves beautiful, such as the way you fix your hair, or the jewelry you put on, or the dresses you wear.

Return Runaway Slaves to Their Owners: Philemon 1:12 The Message

I’m sending (the slave Onesimus) back to you… I wanted in the worst way to keep him here… But I didn’t want to do anything behind your back… Maybe it’s all for the best that you lost him for a while. You’re getting him back now for good—and no mere slave this time, but a true Christian brother!

Gouge Out Your Eyeball: Matthew 5:29 New Living Translation

So if your eye—even your good eye—causes you to lust, gouge it out and throw it away.

Cut Off Your Own Hand: Matthew 5:30 New Living Translation

And if your hand—even your stronger hand—causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away.

Never Swear an Oath: Matthew 5:34 God’s Word Translation

Don’t swear an oath at all. (puts a new slant on the Pledge of Allegiance)

Don’t Defend Yourself if Attacked: Matthew 5:39 Amplified Version

But I say to you, Do not resist the evil man [who injures you]; but if anyone strikes you on the right jaw or cheek, turn to him the other one too.

Give Anything You Have to Anyone Who Asks: Matthew 5:42 Common English Bible

Give to those who ask, and don’t refuse those who wish to borrow from you.

Do NOT Pray in Public: (Matthew 6:6) Common English Bible

When you pray, go to your room, shut the door, and pray to your Father… in that secret place.

Don’t Save Your Money: (Matthew 6:19) New Living Translation

Don’t store up treasures here on earth, where moths eat them and rust destroys them, and where thieves break in and steal.

Don’t Plan for The Future: Matthew 6:34 NASB

So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself.

Do Not Marry a Divorced Woman: Matthew 5:32 NASB

Whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Don’t Wear Nice Clothes: Matthew 6:28-29 NASB

And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these. But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you?

Hate Your Family: Luke 14:26 NASB

If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters… he cannot be My disciple.

Give Away EVERYTHING You Own: Luke 14:33 NASB

So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.


http://backyardskeptics.com/wordpress/new-testament-bible-verses-xtians-tend-to-ignore/

Lady Steel
05-11-2013, 11:00 PM
OK let me clarify something. Especially for Vis who thinks he, she, it knows it all. I was sexually abused as a child, did you miss that? That's why I think sex is gross. If that happened to you, you may be able to comprehend it though I highly doubt it. My beliefs about sex itself is not from the Bible. It's from a horrible, horrible time in my childhood that was ruined and stolen from me because I was only 12 when it started. I was a child for God's sake and to this day I'll never figure out WHY or WHAT I did to turn on a 62 year old man. I wrestle with it a lot.

Cap, I am so very, very sorry for this ugly experience you have had to endure. :hug:

Bane
05-11-2013, 11:38 PM
Cap, I am so very, very sorry for this ugly experience you have had to endure. :hug:

Agreed. That's awful. I'm actually very close with a couple of people who have gone through similar/the same experiences. The havoc it wreaks on someone for the rest of his or her life is terrible. :crying02:

MasterOfPuppets
05-12-2013, 12:43 AM
there's is no such thing as dirty sex...there are only dirty people...

http://favim.com/orig/201105/03/Favim.com-32059.jpg

jacobo
05-12-2013, 12:50 PM
one thing I don't get at all is why people don't just suggest civil unions instead of marriage. anybody who opposes that is just a plain bigot who can't hide behind their religion

harrison'samonster
05-12-2013, 01:04 PM
one thing I don't get at all is why people don't just suggest civil unions instead of marriage. anybody who opposes that is just a plain bigot who can't hide behind their religion

that's a really good point!

SteelCityMom
05-12-2013, 02:08 PM
one thing I don't get at all is why people don't just suggest civil unions instead of marriage. anybody who opposes that is just a plain bigot who can't hide behind their religion

Civil unions would be great if they carried the same legal standing. They never have (yet) and that's why there's a push for marriage equality.

jacobo
05-12-2013, 03:24 PM
Civil unions would be great if they carried the same legal standing. They never have (yet) and that's why there's a push for marriage equality.

yeah, that's what I meant. most of my gay friends who care about marriage only care about the legal privileges of it and don't give a shit about the religious side. I thought civil unions in Canada and the UK have the same rights as marriages?

Bane
05-12-2013, 03:38 PM
Marriage isn't just a religious thing nowadays. Atheists and agnostics can get married, and even religious people get married in places other than churches all the time.

Regardless, your marriage isn't even recognized unless you have a license. So to hell with what religion says about it.

jacobo
05-12-2013, 04:51 PM
Marriage isn't just a religious thing nowadays. Atheists and agnostics can get married, and even religious people get married in places other than churches all the time.

which is something that fundamentalists gloss over when they deny gays right to marry. they always use marriage = religious ceremony as a reason as to why gays shouldn't marry. if gays had the rights as everyone else but it was called civil union instead, they would have nothing to hide behind

Bane
05-12-2013, 05:48 PM
which is something that fundamentalists gloss over when they deny gays right to marry. they always use marriage = religious ceremony as a reason as to why gays shouldn't marry. if gays had the rights as everyone else but it was called civil union instead, they would have nothing to hide behind

Bingo. Nobody is forcing the church to allow gays to marry. Separation of Church and State means that the government can't force them to do that. But it also means the religious can't force laws on the government.

Buddha Bus
05-12-2013, 06:37 PM
The argument that marriage is about procreation and a religious institution is crap as well. I'm happily married, as are millions of others, as a non-believing person with zero interest in having children. Our wedding ceremony was non-religious, other than my wife having her aunt read a religious prayer out of respect to her beliefs and her as a person in general which I was fine with.

Plenty of people have been married in non-religious ceremonies who are heterosexual in various different settings. Does that make them any less married? Why does the church not have a huge outcry against heterosexuals who choose to marry without religious ceremonies in a church and/or have no desire to procreate since that is the "Godly purpose" of it? We don't see the church attempting to deny civil rights to these people under the same arguments that they do homosexual marriage. It boils down to their distaste for homosexuality period, nothing else. The rest is just window dressing and reaching for any and all excuses to deny them the same basic rights as heterosexuals and it's wrong.

Vis
05-12-2013, 07:54 PM
Bingo. Nobody is forcing the church to allow gays to marry. Separation of Church and State means that the government can't force them to do that. But it also means the religious can't force laws on the government.

Don't forget that there are churches performing gay weddings. Where's their religious freedom?

ricardisimo
05-12-2013, 07:57 PM
I suspect that my marriage would have lasted longer if we were both chicks. At least, I would have been more enthused.

Vis
05-12-2013, 07:58 PM
I suspect that my marriage would have lasted longer if we were both chicks. At least, I would have been more enthused.

Your penis got in the way? Sad when marriages end because of the little things.

ricardisimo
05-12-2013, 08:06 PM
Ouch.

caplovestroyp43
05-12-2013, 09:22 PM
Your penis got in the way? Sad when marriages end because of the little things.

Hmmmmm sounds to me like you just might be talking from experience. :noidea:

caplovestroyp43
05-12-2013, 09:22 PM
Don't forget that there are churches performing gay weddings. Where's their religious freedom?

That's the EPITOMY of sickening!!!!

harrison'samonster
05-12-2013, 09:23 PM
That's the EPITOMY of sickening!!!!

pot, meet kettle

Bane
05-12-2013, 09:32 PM
Don't forget that there are churches performing gay weddings. Where's their religious freedom?

Very true. And the greatest part is: The law didn't force them to do it!

Bane
05-12-2013, 09:34 PM
That's the EPITOMY of sickening!!!!

Why? Because good, loving Christians accept everyone?

Because you feel the need to push your beliefs on other people? Even other people who follow the same God you do?

jacobo
05-12-2013, 09:38 PM
I have a feeling Cap's head would explode if she knew Jews and Muslims worship the same God as her.

SteelCityMom
05-12-2013, 09:39 PM
That's the EPITOMY of sickening!!!!

Then don't go to their church. :noidea:

Seems pretty simple to me.

Bane
05-12-2013, 09:40 PM
I have a feeling Cap's head would explode if she knew Jews and Muslims worship the same God as her.

Jews and Muslims don't exist. Only Christians and evil atheists that should be purged. That's why homosexuals should never be able to get married.

Then don't go to their church. :noidea:

Seems pretty simple to me.

That would require logic. Something the religiously devout aren't fond of.

SteelCityMom
05-12-2013, 09:42 PM
Personal freedom is a tricky concept at times.

Buddha Bus
05-12-2013, 11:27 PM
That's the EPITOMY of sickening!!!!

Why? If it's part of their belief system, who are you or I to judge or tell them they are wrong? Isn't that supposedly, according to your religion, for God to decide? And why don't you allow them the same freedom to practice their religion as they interpret it as you are asking for? Seems a little hypocritical, Cap.

Vis
05-13-2013, 03:19 AM
That's the EPITOMY of sickening!!!!

Got it, no religious freedom. You prefer freedom of your exact beliefs to control the country. How Talibany

JonM229
05-13-2013, 07:23 AM
Got it, no religious freedom. You prefer freedom of your exact beliefs to control the country. How Talibany

You're forgetting about the one last Christian theocracy: Vatican City

But good luck having a woman making any important decisions there.

Vis
05-13-2013, 08:38 AM
Minnesota Senate Expected To Pass Gay Marriage Bill, Governor To Sign

ST. PAUL, Minn., May 13 (Reuters) - The Minnesota Senate is expected to give final approval on Monday to a bill that would make the state the 12th in the United States to allow same-sex couples to marry and only the second in the Midwest.

Leaders in the Senate, where Democrats hold a 39-28 majority, have said they believe they have the support to approve a bill legalizing gay marriage. They set a vote for Monday on the measure that members of the state House approved last week.

Democratic Governor Mark Dayton has said he would sign the bill, which would make Minnesota the third state this month to legalize gay marriage after Rhode Island and Delaware. The law would take effect Aug. 1.

Minnesota would join Iowa as the only other Midwestern state to permit gay marriage and the first to do so through legislation. Iowa has permitted same-sex marriage since 2009 under a state Supreme Court order.

The Minnesota House had been expected to be the bigger hurdle, but representatives voted 75-59 on Thursday to approve a bill with some Republican support.

The measure has at least one Republican sponsor in the Senate.

Senator Scott Dibble, the bill's architect, has said the stronger-than-expected vote from representatives was very encouraging and urged same-sex marriage supporters to continue active lobbying for the bill right up to Monday's vote.

Hundreds of supporters and opponents of the proposal to legalize same-sex marriage demonstrated at the Capitol on Thursday. A similar atmosphere was expected on Monday.

The vote on Thursday was a sharp reversal for Minnesota's legislature. Two years ago, Republicans controlled both chambers and bypassed the governor to put forward a ballot measure that would have made the state's current ban on gay marriage part of the state constitution.

Minnesota voters in November rejected that measure and also voted in Democratic majorities in both the state House and Senate, setting the legislature on the path toward Monday's vote.

Republican Senator Warren Limmer, a sponsor of the proposed amendment two years ago, has said the legislation will change how businesses work, clergy speak from the pulpit and school curriculums are shaped.

"Prior to the marriage amendment (vote) in November, many people were warning that this day would come," Limmer said in an interview last week.

Opponents of the bill have questioned whether the rights of religious groups and individuals who believe marriage should be only between one man and one woman would be protected. They also questioned the speed with which the measure was being approved.

Over several years, voters in more than two dozen states approved state constitutional provisions that define marriage as a union between a man and a woman. But in the past year, gay rights advocates won a series of victories.

In November, Maine, Maryland and Washington state became the first states to approve same-sex marriage at the ballot box.

Same-sex marriage is also legal in Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York, Vermont and New Hampshire. The District of Columbia also has legalized same-sex marriage.

Illinois state senators approved a bill in February, but the measure has not been voted on in the full House.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/13/minnesota-senate-gay-marriage_n_3265119.html

caplovestroyp43
05-13-2013, 11:44 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CaptainHank/correct.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/CaptainHank/media/correct.jpg.html)

caplovestroyp43
05-13-2013, 11:45 AM
Got it, no religious freedom. You prefer freedom of your exact beliefs to control the country. How Talibany

How ignorant! I wish you would shut up and leave me be. You don't REALLY know me so leave me alone!

Vis
05-13-2013, 11:51 AM
How ignorant! I wish you would shut up and leave me be. You don't REALLY know me so leave me alone!

I know you have no respect for a Church that marries gay couples. I know that comes from thinking you know God's mind on this issue. I know you really don't so your belief is delusion. I know gays disgust you because of your problems, not theirs. And I know that you want the country to follow your beliefs to the exclusion of others.

JonM229
05-13-2013, 11:54 AM
Illinois state senators approved a bill in February, but the measure has not been voted on in the full House.

I've been waiting for months to be able to brag about living in a state that recognizes marriage equality. I was all ready to start a "We're #10" thread. Now I'm going to have to settle for #13 or later.

I was discussing with my wife (who also believes in marriage equality) that we both grew up wishing we could've been around in the 60's during the last Civil Rights movement. Fortunately for us, we're living in one now.

Vis
05-13-2013, 12:02 PM
I've been waiting for months to be able to brag about living in a state that recognizes marriage equality. I was all ready to start a "We're #10" thread. Now I'm going to have to settle for #13 or later.

I was discussing with my wife (who also believes in marriage equality) that we both grew up wishing we could've been around in the 60's during the last Civil Rights movement. Fortunately for us, we're living in one now.

Lucky 13. Any word on when the house will take it up?

JonM229
05-13-2013, 12:08 PM
They're delaying the vote until they're sure they have secured enough votes. There was Republican support in the Senate, but not so much in the House. There's also Democrats who aren't willing to vote for it due to serving a large amount of Republican constituents.

It's a shame that politicians are more willing to get re-elected than doing what's right.

Vis
05-13-2013, 12:13 PM
PA will be next.

http://www.delcotimes.com/articles/2013/05/12/opinion/doc51904b5994ee2793763013.txt?viewmode=fullstory

Editorial: Time for marriage equality in Pa. is now
Published: Sunday, May 12, 2013


As the expected U.S. Supreme Court decisions on laws affecting marriage equality draw closer, barriers for gay men and lesbians continue to drop around the country.

Some of the obstacles have been overcome by individuals, others by legislators. Both avenues to equality are important.

In the April 29 edition of Sports Illustrated magazine, National Basketball Association center Jason Collins, who split his last season between the Boston Celtics and the Washington Wizards, revealed his homosexuality.

“I’m a 34-year-old NBA center. I’m black. And I’m gay,” wrote Collins, who will become a free agent on July 1.

While other professional athletes have come out of the closet after retiring, Collins is the first openly gay athlete currently playing on a major American team.

A little more than a week later, on May 7, our neighboring state of Delaware became the 11th state in the country to legalize same-sex marriage.

“Delaware should be, is and will be a welcoming place to live, love and raise a family for all who call our great state home,” said Delaware Gov. Jack Markell as he signed into law the same-sex marriage bill a half hour after it was passed 12-9 in the Senate.

Civil unions, which were made legal in Delaware in 2011, will automatically be converted into marriages a year after the new law goes into effect on July 1. The new law also abolishes same-sex marriage prohibition established by the Delaware state legislature in 1996.

It is a far cry from Pennsylvania, where a state constitutional amendment to prohibit same-sex marriage has been proposed more than once in the last 10 years and has failed. However, Pennsylvania’s so-called Defense of Marriage Act of 1996 still prohibits the issuing of marriage licenses to same-sex couples or the recognition of same-sex marriages performed in other states.

Lawmakers, no matter their political party, are like many Americans who still see homosexuality as the ultimate taboo. Two Delaware Senate Democrats voted against the same-sex marriage law.
By the same token, legislators of both parties, like many Americans, support the right of individuals who love one another to marry, regardless of gender. One Republican senator voted in favor of Delaware’s landmark legislation.

Another Delaware legislator, Karen Peterson, who co-sponsored the legislation, came out publicly as a lesbian for the first time on the Senate floor, alluding to her 24-year relationship with a woman while debating the bill.

Peterson’s revelation most likely influenced some of her colleagues in the Delaware legislature to support same-sex marriage when they saw, as she noted, that she didn’t “have horns.”

Pennsylvania legislators are now in the same position to witness, firsthand, that homosexuals are not demons. Last November, state Rep. Brian Sims, a Philadelphia Democrat, and state Rep. Mike Fleck, a Huntingdon County Republican, became the first openly gay members elected to the Pennsylvania General Assembly.

Sims, an alumnus of Bloomsburg University, also became the first openly gay college football captain in the NCAA when he came out to his team in 2000.

The increasing acceptance of homosexuality and marriage equality probably has a lot to do with the fact that more and more Americans have friends and family members who are gay. In fact, it is hard to believe that anyone in this day and age doesn’t know someone who is gay.

Almost two years have passed since the repeal of this country’s “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy went into effect, enabling gay men and lesbians to serve in the U.S. Armed Forces without having to hide their sexuality. Officials at the Pentagon have declared the repeal a success other than incidences of anti-gay harassment that had existed before the repeal. Even conservative military chaplains have had no major complaints. The Pentagon, by the way, has made it clear chaplains are not required to preside at same-sex unions or marriages if they have religious objections.

The new Delaware same-sex marriage law also specifies that religious leaders will not be required to officiate at same-sex marriages. It is consistent with the separation of church and state.

Delaware’s marriage equality law is well-written and a good model for Pennsylvania legislators. It is time they recognize that all of their constituents have the right to marry the people they love.



Regular Session 2013-2014
House Bill 1178

Text [History] [Votes]
Short Title: An Act amending Title 23 (Domestic Relations) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, in marriage, adding a definition; and providing for civil unions.
Prime Sponsor: Representative COHEN
Last Action: Referred to JUDICIARY, April 15, 2013 [House]

JonM229
05-13-2013, 12:28 PM
I guess now we won't be able to tease each other about whose team allows those yucky gays to marry each other.

Unfortunately, the Ravens still have male cheerleaders.

Buddha Bus
05-13-2013, 12:29 PM
Unfortunately, the Ravens still have male cheerleaders.

I would use the term "male" very loosely.

Bane
05-13-2013, 12:34 PM
How ignorant! I wish you would shut up and leave me be. You don't REALLY know me so leave me alone!

You're asking for those kinds of reactions when you attack homosexuals and talk about how sickening you find gay marriage. You have no one to blame but yourself for being a bigot, and then advertising to everyone that you are.

SteelCityMom
05-13-2013, 12:36 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CaptainHank/correct.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/CaptainHank/media/correct.jpg.html)

Hey, if you don't like the Constitution of the United States, there are plenty of countries out there that are theocracies that may be better suited for you. It may conflict with your hatred towards Muslims, but you're going to have to choose one or the other.

WE ARE NOT A THEOCRACY

SteelCityMom
05-13-2013, 12:45 PM
All the stuff you mention, that was pre Jesus and the Old Testament. According to my mother we are living the New Testament and therefore those were the old laws.

You do realize that the scripture you keep quoting that calls gays an abomination and says they should be executed is from the OT, right?

So I ask again, why are you using that scripture as an example of laws we should follow, and not the others that you don't like?

And since you are bringing up the OT biblical argument against gay marriage again...this still needs answered.

JonM229
05-13-2013, 12:48 PM
And since you are bringing up the OT biblical argument against gay marriage again...this still needs answered.

Good luck with that

Vis
05-14-2013, 05:19 AM
ST. PAUL, Minn. — Minnesota is set to become the 12th U.S. state where gay couples can get married after a final legislative vote Monday that will let the weddings start on Aug. 1.

Democratic Gov. Mark Dayton has pledged to sign the bill, and scheduled a ceremony at 5 p.m. Tuesday on the front steps of the Capitol in St. Paul to do so.

JonM229
05-14-2013, 03:13 PM
Now I just hope Minnesota bans reparative therapy, which is how Michelle Bachmann's husband has made most of his money. I wonder why he chose that field:

http://talkaboutequality.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/marcus-bachmann-gay11.jpg

FABULOUS

The_Joker
05-14-2013, 03:31 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CaptainHank/correct.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/CaptainHank/media/correct.jpg.html)

:jerkit:

You wanna theocracy, take a time portal back to medieval Europe.

Vis
05-14-2013, 08:59 PM
1 hour ago
Minnesota governor signs same-sex marriage bill into law


(CNN) – Minnesota became the 12th state to legalize same-sex marriages Tuesday after Gov. Mark Dayton, a Democrat, signed a bill giving same-sex couples the right to marry.

"It's history," his Twitter account read, along with a photo of him signing the bill on the Capitol steps. The state Senate on Monday voted 37-30 in favor of approving the legislation.