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JonM229
06-19-2013, 02:48 PM
Third Republican Senator Backs Same-Sex Marriage (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/19/third-republican-senator-backs-same-sex-marriage/?hpt=hp_t2)

Republican Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska announced her support Wednesday for same-sex marriage, becoming the third sitting GOP senator to back the right for gay and lesbian couples to marry.

She made her endorsement during an interview with a local television station in Alaska and in an opinion piece on her website, just days before the Supreme Court is expected to rule on two high-profile cases involving same-sex marriage.

"I support the right of all Americans to marry the person they love and choose because I believe doing so promotes both values: it keeps politicians out of the most private and personal aspects of peoples’ lives – while also encouraging more families to form and more adults to make a lifetime commitment to one another," she wrote.

Human Rights Campaign President Chad Griffin applauded the senator, describing Murkowski as "courageous and principled."

"We hope other fair-minded conservatives like Senator Murkowski stand up and join her. Alaska may be nicknamed 'the Last Frontier,' but we've got to make sure that LGBT Alaskans don't have to wait to find justice," he said in a statement.

A majority of Americans support allowing same-sex couples to marry, with 57% in favor and 40% opposed, according to a recent ABC News/Washington Post poll. About a third of Republicans and 71% of Democrats support the issue.

"I think you are seeing a change in attitude, a change in tolerance," she told Alaska Public Media in March. "And an acceptance that what marriage should truly be about is a lasting, loving committed relationship with respect to the individual."

In 1998, Alaska became one of the first of now-29 states to pass an amendment to its constitution defining marriage as between a man and a woman.

Murkowski backed similar proposals on the federal level in 2004 and 2006.

"It may be that Alaska will come to revisit its position on gay marriage, and as a policy maker I am certainly reviewing that very closely," she said.

Vis
06-19-2013, 03:32 PM
And history marches on.

PATS16N0
06-19-2013, 03:35 PM
Let's pass gay marriage so we can go back to talking about real issues.

Oh, wait, that won't happen. Even if it was passed, the political establishment would come up with another stupid issue that affects about 2% of the population for all of us to fixate and argue over for the next 15 years while they continue ransacking the nation's liberties.

Fire Haley
06-19-2013, 03:36 PM
The Republican party is dead to me - who is that Paul guy again?



and even fucking Obama voted for a fence



Senate rejects border fence

Senators on Tuesday rejected building the 700 miles of double-tier border fencing Congress authorized just seven years ago, with a majority of the Senate saying they didnít want to delay granting illegal immigrants legal status while the fence was being built.

The 54-39 vote to reject the fence shows the core of the immigration deal is holding. The vote broke mostly along party lines, though five Republicans, including Sen. Marco Rubio and the rest of the billís authors, voted against the fence, and two Democrats voted for it.


Read more: http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/18/senate-rejects-border-fence/#ixzz2WhF4bNgM

Buddha Bus
06-19-2013, 03:37 PM
Let's pass gay marriage so we can go back to talking about real issues.

Oh, wait, that won't happen. Even if it was passed, the political establishment would come up with another stupid issue that affects about 2% of the population for all of us to fixate and argue over for the next 15 years while they continue ransacking the nation's liberties.

Good God, a sensible post from you! :eyecrazy:


Did you just get back on your meds today or something?

Vis
06-19-2013, 03:38 PM
Let's outlaw the NFL in Mass

Fire Arians
06-19-2013, 03:51 PM
another politics thread, cause we don't have enough of that here

43Hitman
06-19-2013, 03:59 PM
The Republican party is dead to me - who is that Paul guy again?



and even fucking Obama voted for a fence



Senate rejects border fence

Senators on Tuesday rejected building the 700 miles of double-tier border fencing Congress authorized just seven years ago, with a majority of the Senate saying they didnít want to delay granting illegal immigrants legal status while the fence was being built.

The 54-39 vote to reject the fence shows the core of the immigration deal is holding. The vote broke mostly along party lines, though five Republicans, including Sen. Marco Rubio and the rest of the billís authors, voted against the fence, and two Democrats voted for it.


Read more: http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/18/senate-rejects-border-fence/#ixzz2WhF4bNgM

Dude, both parties have been exactly the same minus a letter for over 20 years. I am glad though that we are finally waking up to this mess. Better late than never I say.

Don't get me wrong I have been fooled for a long time too, so I don't want to sound like I've always known this shit. Not until I started doing my own research did I find out how similar both parties are in stripping away our liberties and how we haven't had a real candidate for the people since before I was born.

Fire Haley
06-19-2013, 04:22 PM
another politics thread, cause we don't have enough of that here




I believe Vis and I were the only ones that voted for a Politics forum

43Hitman
06-19-2013, 04:42 PM
I believe Vis and I were the only ones that voted for a Politics forum
I voted against, but so far all conversations have been civil. As soon as that changes, if it does, I will remove myself from the discussions. I find it pleasant that we can voice our opinions without being labeled a 'looney lib", "neocon" or "paulbot". That to me is the first step for all of us to affect change in our country. We all have a lot we can agree on right now and we should seize the moment.

MACH1
06-19-2013, 04:48 PM
I voted against, but so far all conversations have been civil. As soon as that changes, if it does, I will remove myself from the discussions. I find it pleasant that we can voice our opinions without being labeled a 'looney lib", "neocon" or "paulbot". That to me is the first step for all of us to affect change in our country. We all have a lot we can agree on right now and we should seize the moment.

Vis already has you labeled. Question is are you dead to him yet. :toofunny:

Sorry Vis couldn't help it.

Vis
06-19-2013, 04:53 PM
I voted against it too. Things get heated in a locker room. Put on your big girl panties

JonM229
06-20-2013, 09:03 AM
Looks like one of the biggest Conversion therapy firms is shut down, but not before issuing an apology to the gay community:

Group Apologizes to Gay Community, Shuts Down 'Cure' Ministry (http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/20/us/exodus-international-shutdown/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)

After 37 years, Exodus International, an organization whose mission was to "help" gay Christians become straight, is shutting down. But not before issuing an apology.

"We're not negating the ways God used Exodus to positively affect thousands of people, but a new generation of Christians is looking for change -- and they want to be heard," Tony Moore, an Exodus board member, said Wednesday.

The announcement comes less than a day after Exodus issued a wide-ranging apology to the gay community for "years of undue judgment by the organization and the Christian Church as a whole," a statement from the group says.

"Exodus is an institution in the conservative Christian world, but we've ceased to be a living, breathing organism," said Alan Chambers, the president of Exodus. "For quite some time, we've been imprisoned in a worldview that's neither honoring toward our fellow human beings, nor biblical."

Chambers, who has a wife and children and previously identified as gay, has acknowledged that he has "ongoing same-sex attractions."

"It is strange to be someone who has both been hurt by the Church's treatment of the LGBTQ community, and also to be someone who must apologize for being part of the very system of ignorance that perpetuated that hurt," Chambers said. "Today it is as if I've just woken up to a greater sense of how painful it is to be a sinner in the hands of an angry church."

LGBTQ stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and questioning.

New focus on a therapy

Exodus, which has promoted "freedom from homosexuality through the power of Jesus Christ," has de-emphasized conversion therapy in recent years as more of the counselors in its network have abandoned the practice.

The American Psychological Association defines conversion therapy as aimed at changing sexual orientation, but adopted a resolution in 2009 condemning the practice.

In it, the organization said "mental health professionals should avoid telling clients that they can change their sexual orientation through therapy or other treatments."

But the same resolution also encouraged therapists to consider the religious beliefs of clients who say such beliefs are important to their views of homosexuality.

The APA removed homosexuality from its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders in 1975.

But yet with the apology, some things have not changed, according to Chambers.

"I cannot apologize for my deeply held biblical beliefs about the boundaries I see in scripture surrounding sex, but I will exercise my beliefs with great care and respect for those who do not share them," he said. "I cannot apologize for my beliefs about marriage. But I do not have any desire to fight you on your beliefs or the rights that you seek."

A new ministry

With the closing of Exodus International, the board of directors voted to begin a new and separate ministry called Reduce Fear.

"This is a new season of ministry, to a new generation," Chambers said. "Our goals are to reduce fear, and come alongside churches to become safe, welcoming and mutually transforming communities."

It's meant to align with Jesus' New Testament message found in John 13:34 -- "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."

"From a Judeo-Christian perspective, gay, straight or otherwise, we're all prodigal sons and daughters," Chambers said. "Exodus International is the prodigal's older brother, trying to impose its will on God's promises, and make judgments on who's worthy of His Kingdom.

"God is calling us to be the Father -- to welcome everyone, to love unhindered."

So I guess being religious and being a homosexual don't have to be mutually exclusive. I wonder when Michelle Bachmann's husband will shut down his conversion therapy practice (as well as when he will also admit to ongoing same-sex attractions).

Vis
06-20-2013, 10:42 AM
I think Michelle will finally admit to being Mike

teegre
06-20-2013, 10:43 AM
Dude, both parties have been exactly the same minus a letter for over 20 years. I am glad though that we are finally waking up to this mess. Better late than never I say.

Don't get me wrong I have been fooled for a long time too, so I don't want to sound like I've always known this shit. Not until I started doing my own research did I find out how similar both parties are in stripping away our liberties and how we haven't had a real candidate for the people since before I was born.

Spot on.

As I've mentioned before:
If one takes away a few little things here & there, on the major issues, it is extremely difficult to distinguish between Bush Sr., Clinton, GW, & Obama.

What they SAY publicly is different, but the policies that actually transpire are very similar.

Iraq, Serbia, Iraq again, Syria...

As Chuck D once said:
"Neither party is mine, not the jackass or the elephant."

The_Joker
06-20-2013, 05:29 PM
Let gays marry, legalize weed, get your grubby paws off of our guns.

Is that too hard US Government?

harrison'samonster
06-20-2013, 06:05 PM
I voted against, but so far all conversations have been civil. As soon as that changes, if it does, I will remove myself from the discussions. I find it pleasant that we can voice our opinions without being labeled a 'looney lib", "neocon" or "paulbot". That to me is the first step for all of us to affect change in our country. We all have a lot we can agree on right now and we should seize the moment.

can't agree with this more. don't forget that a huge method the two parties use is to get us to hate each other. they've got the news stations in on it as well.

Lokki
06-20-2013, 06:29 PM
I guess I'm just a hot mess... I'm kind of in the middle of the road but I lean more Republican on most issues.. I'm an active, church-going Baptist, but I support gay marriage. I also believe in evolution over creationism. I have to tune out the pastor from time to time.

harrison'samonster
06-20-2013, 06:36 PM
I guess I'm just a hot mess... I'm kind of in the middle of the road but I lean more Republican on most issues.. I'm an active, church-going Baptist, but I support gay marriage. I also believe in evolution over creationism. I have to tune out the pastor from time to time.

I'm pretty moderate, leaning towards the Democrats. I go to church most Sundays (excepts when I'm working too much and can't get up on my day off). the main thing on the Democrat platform I'm against is abortion.

teegre
06-20-2013, 06:42 PM
I guess I'm just a hot mess... I'm kind of in the middle of the road but I lean more Republican on most issues.. I'm an active, church-going Baptist, but I support gay marriage. I also believe in evolution over creationism. I have to tune out the pastor from time to time.

That just means that you're going to hell... twice. (:wink02:)

Really though, great post... I think that many can empathize with your "situation."

The_Joker
06-20-2013, 06:49 PM
I'm pretty moderate, leaning towards the Democrats. I go to church most Sundays (excepts when I'm working too much and can't get up on my day off). the main thing on the Democrat platform I'm against is abortion.

I say damn both parties, but I think the Dems are the lesser of two evils.

Two evil evils.

Also, never going to a church ever again.

harrison'samonster
06-20-2013, 07:03 PM
I say damn both parties, but I think the Dems are the lesser of two evils.

Two evil evils.

Also, never going to a church ever again.

well....you're always invited to go back to church, keep an open mind. maybe in the future you'll find the right one and enjoy it.

:drink:

The_Joker
06-20-2013, 07:06 PM
well....you're always invited to go back to church, keep an open mind. maybe in the future you'll find the right one and enjoy it.

:drink:

Yeahhhhhhhhh thanks for the offer but no.

JonM229
06-20-2013, 08:16 PM
I definitely go liberal on most social issues. I really don't know enough about economics to decide one way or the other. When in doubt fiscally, I read Paul Krugman, but I know a lot of conservatives don't like him.

I think marriage equality is a pretty big issue, which will probably be equated with the Civil Rights Movement in future decades. Science has already proven there's nothing physically or psychologically wrong with homosexuals in general, so why do people get so upset about them being able to marry one another?

Without trying to sound like I'm bashing religion, all of the religious texts were written prior to modern science. We know way more about the world and people now than we did when those books were written.

43Hitman
06-20-2013, 08:19 PM
I guess I'm just a hot mess... I'm kind of in the middle of the road but I lean more Republican on most issues.. I'm an active, church-going Baptist, but I support gay marriage. I also believe in evolution over creationism. I have to tune out the pastor from time to time.

No, you're not a hot mess, you're just using common sense. Its just that we've been taught that there are lines, when in reality there isn't.

Buddha Bus
06-20-2013, 08:37 PM
No, you're not a hot mess, you're just using common sense. Its just that we've been taught that there are lines, when in reality there isn't.

Exactly! That's the problem with party politics. It teaches people group-think and discourages free thought. Politicians within their own party are expected to mostly follow the party line and use talking points to bend the minds of the masses to their way of thinking like some kind of cult. Corporate media is another major tool used by the government and the big 2 parties to brainwash people as well.

I used to lean Democrat, but have increasingly been forcing myself away from both major parties as they are not much different from each other. They are only concerned about retaining their own power and making more money for themselves. They no longer have the best interests of the general population in mind. I consider myself a social liberal, but think fiscal conservatism has validity in some areas. I'm pro-choice, non-religious, support the legalization of marijuana, am OK with gun ownership within reason (even though I own none of my own), am anti-capital punishment except in the most extreme and undeniable circumstances, am against illegal immigration, support same-sex marriage, and believe we have a responsibility to help people in need in regards to welfare, unemployment, housing, and healthcare. That doesn't mean I don't believe all of those programs shouldn't be watched vigilantly for abuse by people taking advantage of the system. A lot of people truly need those services, but there are also a lot of people who rape the taxpayer by freeloading off of hardworking people and they should be cut-off and/or punished.

As someone stated, the big 2 are all about pitting us against each other to squabble amongst ourselves while they are looting, raping, and pillaging while we're distracted. Diversion makes for an easier getaway to the crime. Until we can all wake up and agree enough that we aren't the real enemy, they will continue sneaking out the backdoor with all of our shit.

The_Joker
06-20-2013, 08:39 PM
OMG. BUDDHA. STOP BEING SMART.

IT... BURNS!!!!

Lokki
06-20-2013, 10:55 PM
I'm against is abortion.

I'm like 99.9999999% against abortion. However, I think there are certain situations where I could turn a blind eye, such as a woman getting pregnant from rape, but the "morning after pill" could be used before it really got to that point. A woman has to deal with enough emotional trauma and scarring from something like that. They shouldn't have to live with another physical reminder of it, in a child.

Lokki
06-20-2013, 10:55 PM
As someone stated, the big 2 are all about pitting us against each other to squabble amongst ourselves while they are looting, raping, and pillaging while we're distracted. Diversion makes for an easier getaway to the crime. Until we can all wake up and agree enough that we aren't the real enemy, they will continue sneaking out the backdoor with all of our shit.

Yup.. Watch this hand over here, while I reach around with my other hand and take your wallet and give you a good fisting.

teegre
06-21-2013, 01:09 AM
Exactly, Buddha.

The two (main) parties care more about getting re-elected and/or blaming the other party, than they do about actually getting anything done while in office.

That's why I always go the "write-in" candidate route. Since I turned eighteen, I have always voted for the sane guy, for most offices:

Lex Luther

Why? He is upfront about his greed, corruption, & theivery. And, I like me some honesty.

Vis
06-21-2013, 06:39 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3p0GDlpVcs

MasterOfPuppets
06-21-2013, 02:18 PM
Exactly! That's the problem with party politics. It teaches people group-think and discourages free thought. Politicians within their own party are expected to mostly follow the party line and use talking points to bend the minds of the masses to their way of thinking like some kind of cult. Corporate media is another major tool used by the government and the big 2 parties to brainwash people as well.

I used to lean Democrat, but have increasingly been forcing myself away from both major parties as they are not much different from each other. They are only concerned about retaining their own power and making more money for themselves. They no longer have the best interests of the general population in mind. I consider myself a social liberal, but think fiscal conservatism has validity in some areas. I'm pro-choice, non-religious, support the legalization of marijuana, am OK with gun ownership within reason (even though I own none of my own), am anti-capital punishment except in the most extreme and undeniable circumstances, am against illegal immigration, support same-sex marriage, and believe we have a responsibility to help people in need in regards to welfare, unemployment, housing, and healthcare. That doesn't mean I don't believe all of those programs shouldn't be watched vigilantly for abuse by people taking advantage of the system. A lot of people truly need those services, but there are also a lot of people who rape the taxpayer by freeloading off of hardworking people and they should be cut-off and/or punished.

As someone stated, the big 2 are all about pitting us against each other to squabble amongst ourselves while they are looting, raping, and pillaging while we're distracted. Diversion makes for an easier getaway to the crime. Until we can all wake up and agree enough that we aren't the real enemy, they will continue sneaking out the backdoor with all of our shit.
you my friend are a libertarian. here is who we all need to vote for...

Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson open to running for president again in 2016

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/FRCrNGD7kgPXxu3dhTdFKA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/theticket/126145178.jpg

Buddha Bus
06-21-2013, 02:58 PM
you my friend are a libertarian. here is who we all need to vote for...

Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson open to running for president again in 2016

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/FRCrNGD7kgPXxu3dhTdFKA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/theticket/126145178.jpg

I voted Libertarian in the last election even though I hadn't really done my homework on the candidate. I know it's not the best idea to vote for someone you know little or nothing about, but I figured I couldn't do any damage as there was no chance of a third party candidate winning the presidency this go around anyway and all I would have done is not vote otherwise. I just wanted to send a message and be able to sleep well at night knowing I tried. I wasn't going to vote at all till my wife gave me shit about it and I realized she was right. I knew I was "throwing my vote away" per se, but you've gotta start somewhere and you can't bitch if you don't. Thankfully, I enjoy bitching enough to not want to give that right way. :chuckle:

More people need to break away from this "I don't want to throw my vote away" lesser-of-two-evils mindset. I myself was stuck in that rut for a long time, even though I didn't really like the candidate I was usually voting for much more than the one I despised. They are two sides of the same coin with no regard for you or I in any way whatsoever. The sooner we pull together and get past the bickering and fear of the "boogeyman candidate", the sooner we will be able to affect change in this country.

That said, I fear it may be too late to do it now, but I'm still gonna damn sure try to vote these scumbags out of office. It's the only legal option left. Of course, now I guess I'm on some kind of government watch list from this rant. If I turn up missing, you know the black helicopters found me. :wink02:

steelax04
06-21-2013, 03:47 PM
I voted Libertarian in the last election even though I hadn't really done my homework on the candidate. I know it's not the best idea to vote for someone you know little or nothing about, but I figured I couldn't do any damage as there was no chance of a third party candidate winning the presidency this go around anyway and all I would have done is not vote otherwise. I just wanted to send a message and be able to sleep well at night knowing I tried. I wasn't going to vote at all till my wife gave me shit about it and I realized she was right. I knew I was "throwing my vote away" per se, but you've gotta start somewhere and you can't bitch if you don't. Thankfully, I enjoy bitching enough to not want to give that right way. :chuckle:

More people need to break away from this "I don't want to throw my vote away" lesser-of-two-evils mindset. I myself was stuck in that rut for a long time, even though I didn't really like the candidate I was usually voting for much more than the one I despised. They are two sides of the same coin with no regard for you or I in any way whatsoever. The sooner we pull together and get past the bickering and fear of the "boogeyman candidate", the sooner we will be able to affect change in this country.

That said, I fear it may be too late to do it now, but I'm still gonna damn sure try to vote these scumbags out of office. It's the only legal option left. Of course, now I guess I'm on some kind of government watch list from this rant. If I turn up missing, you know the black helicopters found me. :wink02:

I need to go take a long walk off a short cliff. We think along the same lines much more than I ever want to admit.

Goodbye cruel world!

Buddha Bus
06-21-2013, 04:03 PM
I need to go take a long walk off a short cliff. We think along the same lines much more than I ever want to admit.

Goodbye cruel world!

You're screwed. Seek help now before it's too late! :chuckle:

teegre
06-21-2013, 04:27 PM
I voted Libertarian in the last election even though I hadn't really done my homework on the candidate. I know it's not the best idea to vote for someone you know little or nothing about, but I figured I couldn't do any damage as there was no chance of a third party candidate winning the presidency this go around anyway and all I would have done is not vote otherwise. I just wanted to send a message and be able to sleep well at night knowing I tried. I wasn't going to vote at all till my wife gave me shit about it and I realized she was right. I knew I was "throwing my vote away" per se, but you've gotta start somewhere and you can't bitch if you don't. Thankfully, I enjoy bitching enough to not want to give that right way. :chuckle:

More people need to break away from this "I don't want to throw my vote away" lesser-of-two-evils mindset. I myself was stuck in that rut for a long time, even though I didn't really like the candidate I was usually voting for much more than the one I despised. They are two sides of the same coin with no regard for you or I in any way whatsoever. The sooner we pull together and get past the bickering and fear of the "boogeyman candidate", the sooner we will be able to affect change in this country.

That said, I fear it may be too late to do it now, but I'm still gonna damn sure try to vote these scumbags out of office. It's the only legal option left. Of course, now I guess I'm on some kind of government watch list from this rant. If I turn up missing, you know the black helicopters found me. :wink02:

My friend is all the time calling me a Libertarian. But, I keep telling him: "I don't even go to the library, let alone work at one."

My friend is such a dumbass.

Buddha Bus
06-21-2013, 04:53 PM
My friend is all the time calling me a Libertarian. But, I keep telling him: "I don't even go to the library, let alone work at one."

My friend is such a dumbass.



It's time we put the Dewey Decimal System on trial! :rage:

vasteeler
06-21-2013, 05:02 PM
I voted Libertarian in the last election even though I hadn't really done my homework on the candidate. I know it's not the best idea to vote for someone you know little or nothing about, but I figured I couldn't do any damage as there was no chance of a third party candidate winning the presidency this go around anyway and all I would have done is not vote otherwise. I just wanted to send a message and be able to sleep well at night knowing I tried. I wasn't going to vote at all till my wife gave me shit about it and I realized she was right. I knew I was "throwing my vote away" per se, but you've gotta start somewhere and you can't bitch if you don't. Thankfully, I enjoy bitching enough to not want to give that right way. :chuckle:

More people need to break away from this "I don't want to throw my vote away" lesser-of-two-evils mindset. I myself was stuck in that rut for a long time, even though I didn't really like the candidate I was usually voting for much more than the one I despised. They are two sides of the same coin with no regard for you or I in any way whatsoever. The sooner we pull together and get past the bickering and fear of the "boogeyman candidate", the sooner we will be able to affect change in this country.

That said, I fear it may be too late to do it now, but I'm still gonna damn sure try to vote these scumbags out of office. It's the only legal option left. Of course, now I guess I'm on some kind of government watch list from this rant. If I turn up missing, you know the black helicopters found me. :wink02:

this need to be played while reading this.....i agree 100%

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl_rljOB4AE

vasteeler
06-21-2013, 05:04 PM
I voted Libertarian in the last election even though I hadn't really done my homework on the candidate. I know it's not the best idea to vote for someone you know little or nothing about, but I figured I couldn't do any damage as there was no chance of a third party candidate winning the presidency this go around anyway and all I would have done is not vote otherwise. I just wanted to send a message and be able to sleep well at night knowing I tried. I wasn't going to vote at all till my wife gave me shit about it and I realized she was right. I knew I was "throwing my vote away" per se, but you've gotta start somewhere and you can't bitch if you don't. Thankfully, I enjoy bitching enough to not want to give that right way. :chuckle:

More people need to break away from this "I don't want to throw my vote away" lesser-of-two-evils mindset. I myself was stuck in that rut for a long time, even though I didn't really like the candidate I was usually voting for much more than the one I despised. They are two sides of the same coin with no regard for you or I in any way whatsoever. The sooner we pull together and get past the bickering and fear of the "boogeyman candidate", the sooner we will be able to affect change in this country.

That said, I fear it may be too late to do it now, but I'm still gonna damn sure try to vote these scumbags out of office. It's the only legal option left. Of course, now I guess I'm on some kind of government watch list from this rant. If I turn up missing, you know the black helicopters found me. :wink02:

this needs to be played while reading this.....i agree 100%......Buddha for president:usa:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl_rljOB4AE

Buddha Bus
06-21-2013, 05:10 PM
this needs to be played while reading this.....i agree 100%......Buddha for president:usa:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl_rljOB4AE

Holy crap! If you think the country's in a mess now, just think about how fucked we'd be if I was in charge! :doh:

The Lincoln Bedroom would never smell the same again. :monkey: :chuckle:

SteelCityMom
06-21-2013, 05:26 PM
Let gays marry, legalize weed, get your grubby paws off of our guns.

Is that too hard US Government?

You took a vacation from here and became a libertarian...didn't you! :chuckle:

MasterOfPuppets
06-21-2013, 05:37 PM
I voted Libertarian in the last election even though I hadn't really done my homework on the candidate. I know it's not the best idea to vote for someone you know little or nothing about, but I figured I couldn't do any damage as there was no chance of a third party candidate winning the presidency this go around anyway and all I would have done is not vote otherwise. I just wanted to send a message and be able to sleep well at night knowing I tried. I wasn't going to vote at all till my wife gave me shit about it and I realized she was right. I knew I was "throwing my vote away" per se, but you've gotta start somewhere and you can't bitch if you don't. Thankfully, I enjoy bitching enough to not want to give that right way. :chuckle:

More people need to break away from this "I don't want to throw my vote away" lesser-of-two-evils mindset. I myself was stuck in that rut for a long time, even though I didn't really like the candidate I was usually voting for much more than the one I despised. They are two sides of the same coin with no regard for you or I in any way whatsoever. The sooner we pull together and get past the bickering and fear of the "boogeyman candidate", the sooner we will be able to affect change in this country.

That said, I fear it may be too late to do it now, but I'm still gonna damn sure try to vote these scumbags out of office. It's the only legal option left. Of course, now I guess I'm on some kind of government watch list from this rant. If I turn up missing, you know the black helicopters found me. :wink02:
you gotta crawl before you can walk. the goal was to get 5% of the votes
Attaining 5% ensures ballot access to all 50 states and DC in the next election and matching federal funds. These two checkpoints are huge in getting traction in the mainstream for a third party.
So, if you haven't voted yet, and you are still unsure for whom you will cast your vote later today, please consider a third party vote, specifically Gary Johnson as he has the best chance to get to 5%. Now get out there and get this done. Let's change this system once and for all!

teegre
06-21-2013, 05:49 PM
It's time we put the Dewey Decimal System on trial! :rage:

Fire books!!!

43Hitman
06-21-2013, 06:29 PM
I voted for Gary Johnson and I was very proud of my decision to break away from the status quo.

The_Joker
06-22-2013, 11:04 PM
I voted for Gary Johnson and I was very proud of my decision to break away from the status quo.

I heard he was pretty good. Too bad the masses can't vote anything but Blood Red or Sickly Blue.

43Hitman
06-23-2013, 09:32 AM
I heard he was pretty good. Too bad the masses can't vote anything but Blood Red or Sickly Blue.
Hopefully that's starting to change. Looking forward to 2014.

JonM229
06-23-2013, 09:34 AM
Nader '16!

fer522
06-23-2013, 10:04 AM
JON, i thought you said you'd vote for me!! What a Friend :banging:

Buddha Bus
06-23-2013, 11:49 AM
JON, i thought you said you'd vote for me!! What a Friend :banging:

If he did that, that would be two severely misguided things he supports.... you and the Ravens. :chuckle:

43Hitman
06-23-2013, 11:54 AM
If he did that, that would be two severely misguided things he supports.... you and the Ravens. :chuckle:

sorry fer, but thats funny. :drink:

Bayz101
06-23-2013, 12:56 PM
If he did that, that would be two severely misguided things he supports.... you and the Ravens. :chuckle:

:toofunny:

The_Joker
06-23-2013, 01:13 PM
Liberal =/= Democrat
Liberal =/= Libertarian
Liberal =/= Obama supporter

Just sayin.

SteelCityMom
06-23-2013, 02:44 PM
Liberal =/= Democrat
Liberal =/= Libertarian
Liberal =/= Obama supporter

Just sayin.

Yes, and that's not what I meant by my statement. You just seem more like the classic liberal, which is actually what libertarians represent more of today than the modern form of liberalism.

Liberalism used to mean you were a conservative, and then I think the Whigs or someone fucked that up. Or maybe it was the Canadians...I can never be sure.

The_Joker
06-23-2013, 02:56 PM
Yes, and that's not what I meant by my statement. You just seem more like the classic liberal, which is actually what libertarians represent more of today than the modern form of liberalism.

Liberalism used to mean you were a conservative, and then I think the Whigs or someone fucked that up. Or maybe it was the Canadians...I can never be sure.

Neo-Liberals are basically Conservatives...

Classical Liberals are Libertarians socially, but Liberals economicly.

SteelCityMom
06-23-2013, 03:42 PM
Neo-Liberals are basically Conservatives...

Classical Liberals are Libertarians socially, but Liberals economicly.

Classical liberals were not even close to (modern) liberals economically lol. Hell, they weren't even like libertarians economically. They were the kind of free market thinkers that would put even the most far right conservatives to shame today. They even thought child labor laws, pensions, and any bank regulations were an interference by the state. Some of that is a bit too far for me, but I share the desire for a much smaller gov't in a lot of other respects. Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations is the perfect place to start to understand their economic ideals.

Government should be limited to defense, public works and the administration of justice, financed by taxes based on income...this was the core belief (and is in most forms, the core beliefs of libertarians as well, though most today do not go so far against some regulations and welfare intervention). Today's libertarians picked up ideals from social liberalism and mixed that with economics from classical liberalism...and *poof*!

fer522
06-23-2013, 04:20 PM
If he did that, that would be two severely misguided things he supports.... you and the Ravens. :chuckle:

Wtf Bayz!! Ban buddhas ass that was a personal attack! You don't think I could be a good president cos I'm brown? :chuckle:

The_Joker
06-23-2013, 09:53 PM
Wtf Bayz!! Ban buddhas ass that was a personal attack! You don't think I could be a good president cos I'm brown? :chuckle:

Can we just ban Buddha for the sake of banning Buddha?

caplovestroyp43
06-23-2013, 10:13 PM
Very disappointed to see that a Republican would back such a sinful act. I consider her a RINO Republican In Name Only.

Horrible, horrible, horrible.

Atlanta Dan
06-23-2013, 10:26 PM
Very disappointed to see that a Republican would back such a sinful act. I consider her a RINO Republican In Name Only.

Horrible, horrible, horrible.

Times change - some change with them, some do not
At the oral argument today in Hollingsworth v. Perry, Justice Scalia repeatedly questioned Ted Olson on when same-sex marriage became unconstitutional. From the transcript:

JUSTICE SCALIA: I’m curious, when -≠ when did — when did it become unconstitutional to exclude homosexual couples from marriage? 1791? 1868, when the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted? Sometimes — some time after Baker, where we said it didn’t even raise a substantial Federal question? When — when — when did the law become this?

MR. OLSON: When — may I answer this in the form of a rhetorical question? When did it become unconstitutional to prohibit interracial marriages? When did it become unconstitutional to assign children to separate schools.

JUSTICE SCALIA: It’s an easy question, I think, for that one. At — at the time that the Equal Protection Clause was adopted. That’s absolutely true. But don’t give me a question to my question. When do you think it became
unconstitutional? Has it always been unconstitutional? . . .

MR. OLSON: It was constitutional when we -≠as a culture determined that sexual orientation is a characteristic of individuals that they cannot control, and that that -≠

JUSTICE SCALIA: I see. When did that happen? When did that happen?

MR. OLSON: There’s no specific date in time. This is an evolutionary cycle.
http://www.volokh.com/2013/03/26/when-did-same-sex-marriage-become-unconstitutional/

The_Joker
06-23-2013, 10:47 PM
Very disappointed to see that a Republican would back such a sinful act. I consider her a RINO Republican In Name Only.

Horrible, horrible, horrible.

It's not about whether it is sinful or not (though I have a strong opinion that it is not), it is about whether or not the gov't has the right to deny someone marriage based on religious grounds.

Tell me, all biases aside, where can you point and say "Ah ha! Gay marriage is illegal because X document says so!"?

Edit: See Bayz, when someone presents their opinion in a somewhat respectable way, I can too.

SteelCityMom
06-23-2013, 11:10 PM
Now if the rest of the Republicans would just jump on this bandwagon and give support to the Constitution, like they should, they could start trying to dig themselves out of the PR nightmare they've created for themselves.

The_Joker
06-23-2013, 11:11 PM
Now if the rest of the Republicans would just jump on this bandwagon and give support to the Constitution, like they should, they could start trying to dig themselves out of the PR nightmare they've created for themselves.

It's honestly painful when they make a valid point on gun rights, but then say homophobic things in the same breath...

Bayz101
06-23-2013, 11:32 PM
It's not about whether it is sinful or not (though I have a strong opinion that it is not), it is about whether or not the gov't has the right to deny someone marriage based on religious grounds.

Tell me, all biases aside, where can you point and say "Ah ha! Gay marriage is illegal because X document says so!"?

Edit: See Bayz, when someone presents their opinion in a somewhat respectable way, I can too.

Excellente! Worry about you, Quack. That's all you need to do. :drink:

The_Joker
06-23-2013, 11:35 PM
Excellente! Worry about you, Quack. That's all you need to do. :drink:

And all people need to do in response is not say gay people are scum. Easy, right?