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hardwork
08-30-2006, 05:50 AM
I have no evidence of this, nor any inside information, but I'm getting the feeling that Branch is gone.

Yesterday I heard two things that concern me. One, that Branch has been shooting for free agency all along. Two, some one who's opinion I respect said he felt that Branch was not coming back to the Patriots.

I don't how he can do it though. He can't sit out the year it would cost him too much. And the Patriots aren't going to just let him walk without getting something for him.

X-Terminator
08-30-2006, 08:07 AM
I think he's going to end up being traded...there's no way the Pats let him walk for nothing.

HometownGal
08-30-2006, 08:10 AM
I have no evidence of this, nor any inside information, but I'm getting the feeling that Branch is gone.

Yesterday I heard two things that concern me. One, that Branch has been shooting for free agency all along. Two, some one who's opinion I respect said he felt that Branch was not coming back to the Patriots.

I don't how he can do it though. He can't sit out the year it would cost him too much. And the Patriots aren't going to just let him walk without getting something for him.

Until you read or hear something concrete from the Pats organization, hardwork, don't believe anything else you may hear. Rumors get started and are then exaggerated. I agree with XT here - the Pats aren't going to just allow Brady's #1 guy to walk without getting some form of compensation in return.

(Come on over to the black and gold side where you won't have to worry this season about anyone walking!) :blurp:

HburgXL06
08-30-2006, 09:55 AM
I heard bout the drama goin on in New England wit Branch and it seems to me that the pats players are skippin town left and right. I don't know what caused the exodus of New England but it's weird for me to watch and painful I'm sure for pats fans. Branch has got til October to find a new team/deal but I would think that the less than frantic response he's gotten so far would tell him that he should stay in New England at least for this season. Unless he is havin some problem wit someone inside behind closed doors I can't see what the reason he has for leavin besides wantin more money which many teams don't have much room to move wit the salary cap.

BuFu

Livinginthe past
08-30-2006, 10:10 AM
I heard bout the drama goin on in New England wit Branch and it seems to me that the pats players are skippin town left and right. I don't know what caused the exodus of New England but it's weird for me to watch and painful I'm sure for pats fans. Branch has got til October to find a new team/deal but I would think that the less than frantic response he's gotten so far would tell him that he should stay in New England at least for this season. Unless he is havin some problem wit someone inside behind closed doors I can't see what the reason he has for leavin besides wantin more money which many teams don't have much room to move wit the salary cap.

BuFu


Its purely related to the level of succes the Patriots have had in recent times.

Players get an inflated sense of self-worth, which isn't compatible with the salary cap or the Patriots ethos after a few championships.

You have had a small sample of that with Randle El and Chris Hope - just wait until the big names start arguing for an extra slice of the pie.

NM

tony hipchest
08-30-2006, 01:47 PM
http://nfl.com/news/story/9624074

IS DEION BRANCH REALLY FOR SALE?
Do any of you have a neighbor or a relative who puts his house up for sale with no intention of selling it unless he gets his asking price? They kind of want to see what the market really is for their property.


It probably would be in Deion Branch's best interest to hold onto Tom Brady and the Patriots.
Well, by announcing that Deion Branch is free until Sept. 1 to bring a trade offer back to the Patriots really is the same thing. If Deion really turned down the reported Patriots offer of $33 million over five years -- with close to $19 million of it in the first three years -- then Branch has to find a team willing to part with close to $40 million over five years.

If he can get that part of the equation covered, then the Patriots will ask for compensation from the club. If a team is willing to say Branch is worth an average of more than $7 million a year, then it is recognizing he has first-round value in the trade. New England should expect at worst a second-round pick that converts to a No. 1 if Branch meets a certain performance level.

As one GM who wouldn't mind getting another starting wide receiver said to me today, "He's better than what we have right now, but I'm not sure Brady doesn't make him look even better. I wonder what he will do with an average QB on the field."

Certainly, Brady's preseason performance (35 for 54, 17 different Patriots with a reception) suggests the talent of the QB and the system has something to do with Branch's success in the past. As a personnel director said to me, "Don't get me wrong. Branch is a very good player, but the Patriots deal on the table is the right one."

Branch probably is going to see Sept. 1 come and go without a real trade unless he makes some concessions. The next thing we are likely to hear is that he will return if there's a promise not to use a franchise tag next season. I don't believe the Patriots would ever give up their right to use the tag, so Branch will return to New England. He has hefty fines to pay, and he might want to rethink New England's offer if it's still on the table after his fact-finding mission.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

some things of note:

while litp contends they will not set a precedent and overpay for a player they are clearly doing that with the absurd offer on the table.

why would branch reject such a lavish offer? perhaps he feels the pats will continue to water down his stats and he will never realize the potential he feels he has. maybe numbers do matter to him as much as rings. maybe he feels he has not ben a success, just a mere token extension of tom brady. pretty humiliating. maybe having a hall of fame career matters too.

a good reason to sit out is that he knows he wont re sign with the patriots next year no matter the offer. sure he loses part of a million this year but if he plays and gets hurt (which is very likely) his stock plummets.

it will be cool watching how this plays out. everything says its about the money so why hasnt he accepted the best deal he will be offered? could it be that being respected as a man is worth more than another $10,000 piece of jewelry?

Livinginthe past
08-30-2006, 02:00 PM
http://nfl.com/news/story/9624074

IS DEION BRANCH REALLY FOR SALE?
Do any of you have a neighbor or a relative who puts his house up for sale with no intention of selling it unless he gets his asking price? They kind of want to see what the market really is for their property.


It probably would be in Deion Branch's best interest to hold onto Tom Brady and the Patriots.
Well, by announcing that Deion Branch is free until Sept. 1 to bring a trade offer back to the Patriots really is the same thing. If Deion really turned down the reported Patriots offer of $33 million over five years -- with close to $19 million of it in the first three years -- then Branch has to find a team willing to part with close to $40 million over five years.

If he can get that part of the equation covered, then the Patriots will ask for compensation from the club. If a team is willing to say Branch is worth an average of more than $7 million a year, then it is recognizing he has first-round value in the trade. New England should expect at worst a second-round pick that converts to a No. 1 if Branch meets a certain performance level.

As one GM who wouldn't mind getting another starting wide receiver said to me today, "He's better than what we have right now, but I'm not sure Brady doesn't make him look even better. I wonder what he will do with an average QB on the field."

Certainly, Brady's preseason performance (35 for 54, 17 different Patriots with a reception) suggests the talent of the QB and the system has something to do with Branch's success in the past. As a personnel director said to me, "Don't get me wrong. Branch is a very good player, but the Patriots deal on the table is the right one."

Branch probably is going to see Sept. 1 come and go without a real trade unless he makes some concessions. The next thing we are likely to hear is that he will return if there's a promise not to use a franchise tag next season. I don't believe the Patriots would ever give up their right to use the tag, so Branch will return to New England. He has hefty fines to pay, and he might want to rethink New England's offer if it's still on the table after his fact-finding mission.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

some things of note:

while litp contends they will not set a precedent and overpay for a player they are clearly doing that with the absurd offer on the table.

why would branch reject such a lavish offer? perhaps he feels the pats will continue to water down his stats and he will never realize the potential he feels he has. maybe numbers do matter to him as much as rings. maybe he feels he has not ben a success, just a mere token extension of tom brady. pretty humiliating. maybe having a hall of fame career matters too.

a good reason to sit out is that he knows he wont re sign with the patriots next year no matter the offer. sure he loses part of a million this year but if he plays and gets hurt (which is very likely) his stock plummets.

it will be cool watching how this plays out. everything says its about the money so why hasnt he accepted the best deal he will be offered? could it be that being respected as a man is worth more than another $10,000 piece of jewelry?

I would characterize the Patriots offer to Branch as on the generous side of realistic - to call it abusrd goes against everything to have accused the Patriots of in the past - namely being cheap skates who wont pay their players what they are worth.

Just wait until the Steelers have that level of success in the salary cap era - well, maybe thats a case of 'if', and not 'when'.

I think I probably have more faith in the F.O that operates the tightest ship on the salary cap era as opposed to the opinions of a Steelers fan who wouldnt know an unbaised opinion if it crashed thorugh his windscreen at 180mph :cool:

NM

tony hipchest
08-30-2006, 02:27 PM
I would characterize the Patriots offer to Branch as on the generous side of realistic - to call it abusrd goes against everything to have accused the Patriots of in the past - namely being cheap skates who wont pay their players what they are worth.

Just wait until the Steelers have that level of success in the salary cap era - well, maybe thats a case of 'if', and not 'when'.

I think I probably have more faith in the F.O that operates the tightest ship on the salary cap era as opposed to the opinions of a Steelers fan who wouldnt know an unbaised opinion if it crashed thorugh his windscreen at 180mph :cool:

NMyou call it "generous side of realistic" and i call it "absurd". semantics and your poetry aside, you are the one going against what you said in the past. i DID say the pats were cheapskates who should pay their players WHAT THEY ARE WORTH. you said they would never set the precedent for overpaying for any player or their house of cards could come tumbling down.

once again, i am right. the deal on the table is far above market value. it is on par with a snyder deal with randel el or a reach for givens. just cause pinkston or thrash happened to be a #1 wr on the eagles a few years back doesnt mean they were paid like a #1 wr because they simply werent. just cause branch is the best wr on HIS team, doesnt mean he is one of the best in the league. fair market value for him would be a little more than the average of bruce , moulds, and keyshawn would get. maybe ad a mil/year to account for the age factor.

you say 'if' and 'when' yet forget that the steelers are the model of success in the salary cap era. just ask the patriots for an unbiassed answer (one that might be a little difficult for you to swallow, cause once again it would prove you on the wrong side of an opinion) not only have they proven they can handle the loss of players, theyve proven they can handle the loss of coaches too.

hardwork
08-30-2006, 10:28 PM
you call it "generous side of realistic" and i call it "absurd". semantics and your poetry aside, you are the one going against what you said in the past. i DID say the pats were cheapskates who should pay their players WHAT THEY ARE WORTH. you said they would never set the precedent for overpaying for any player or their house of cards could come tumbling down.

once again, i am right. the deal on the table is far above market value. it is on par with a snyder deal with randel el or a reach for givens. just cause pinkston or thrash happened to be a #1 wr on the eagles a few years back doesnt mean they were paid like a #1 wr because they simply werent. just cause branch is the best wr on HIS team, doesnt mean he is one of the best in the league. fair market value for him would be a little more than the average of bruce , moulds, and keyshawn would get. maybe ad a mil/year to account for the age factor.

you say 'if' and 'when' yet forget that the steelers are the model of success in the salary cap era. just ask the patriots for an unbiassed answer (one that might be a little difficult for you to swallow, cause once again it would prove you on the wrong side of an opinion) not only have they proven they can handle the loss of players, theyve proven they can handle the loss of coaches too.

There is an infinitesimal worm/parasite that gets inside the brain of an ant and drives it to do nutty things that provide no benefit what so ever for the ant. The ant has no idea why it's following the wishes of the worm, in fact it doesn't even know it is.

There are people who have parasite like thoughts that get in their head and lead them to follow those thoughts around without having any idea why, or that, they are. When you run into these possessed people, ie tonyhipchest, the only thing you can do is hope that some day they'll recognize the symptoms and no longer allow themselves to host such parasitic notions.

hardwork
08-30-2006, 10:38 PM
I think he's going to end up being traded...there's no way the Pats let him walk for nothing.

I agree. If he doesn't come back he'll be traded.

hardwork
08-30-2006, 10:40 PM
(Come on over to the black and gold side where you won't have to worry this season about anyone walking!) :blurp:

I think I'll pass for right now, Gal. Thanks for the offer though.

BlacknGold Bleeder
08-30-2006, 11:48 PM
The "possesed people" lie on both side of a discussion, because their opinion is different does not make them wrong. LITP and you,hardwork, almost always seem to be on opposite sides.To say that the STEELERS have not had success at retaining their free agents without breaking the bank is absurd, unfortunately no team is able to retain all it's stars because of the most athelete's greed for more money. Very few players show any loyalty to their team, it's almost always about the money. Both teams have had success at retaining their "key players" of choice, too bad the players don't know when it is sometimes smarter to take less to enjoy team success that can also lead to extra money.

BlacknGold Bleeder
08-30-2006, 11:51 PM
(Come on over to the black and gold side where you won't have to worry this season about anyone walking!) :blurp:

Hometown,I know the offer was only made in jest but PLEASE do not ever repeat this offer!!! :bouncy:

tony hipchest
08-30-2006, 11:55 PM
There is an infinitesimal worm/parasite that gets inside the brain of an ant and drives it to do nutty things that provide no benefit what so ever for the ant. The ant has no idea why it's following the wishes of the worm, in fact it doesn't even know it is.

There are people who have parasite like thoughts that get in their head and lead them to follow those thoughts around without having any idea why, or that, they are. When you run into these possessed people, ie tonyhipchest, the only thing you can do is hope that some day they'll recognize the symptoms and no longer allow themselves to host such parasitic notions.


so youre blaming this all on the agent? the agent has the most to lose! i would go as far as saying branch is the parasite and the agent is the ant. but if the numbers kirwan stated are true it is obvious it is branch without the brains. no wonder patfans relate to him so well.

but while we are on the topic of nature stories and fairy tales i got one:

there are hard working colony ants like hardwork that make the fandom flourish. there is the queen ant belichicks who keep everybody in line. then there are people like me who come along and step on them.

Livinginthe past
08-31-2006, 12:35 AM
you call it "generous side of realistic" and i call it "absurd". semantics and your poetry aside, you are the one going against what you said in the past. i DID say the pats were cheapskates who should pay their players WHAT THEY ARE WORTH. you said they would never set the precedent for overpaying for any player or their house of cards could come tumbling down.

once again, i am right. the deal on the table is far above market value. it is on par with a snyder deal with randel el or a reach for givens. just cause pinkston or thrash happened to be a #1 wr on the eagles a few years back doesnt mean they were paid like a #1 wr because they simply werent. just cause branch is the best wr on HIS team, doesnt mean he is one of the best in the league. fair market value for him would be a little more than the average of bruce , moulds, and keyshawn would get. maybe ad a mil/year to account for the age factor.

you say 'if' and 'when' yet forget that the steelers are the model of success in the salary cap era. just ask the patriots for an unbiassed answer (one that might be a little difficult for you to swallow, cause once again it would prove you on the wrong side of an opinion) not only have they proven they can handle the loss of players, theyve proven they can handle the loss of coaches too.

Im afraid that you chanting 'absurd, absurd, absurd' doesn't necessarily make it so Tony.

How many times must I explain the difference betwen a fact and an opinion to you?

So you think they are over-paying - I do not - therefore that means I have not contradicted myself. Capiche?

Again, I trust the FO of the most successful franchise in the salary cap era more than I trust the opinion of an biased Steeler fan.

Thanks for the input though.

NM

Livinginthe past
08-31-2006, 12:38 AM
so youre blaming this all on the agent? the agent has the most to lose! i would go as far as saying branch is the parasite and the agent is the ant. but if the numbers kirwan stated are true it is obvious it is branch without the brains. no wonder patfans relate to him so well.

but while we are on the topic of nature stories and fairy tales i got one:

there are hard working colony ants like hardwork that make the fandom flourish. there is the queen ant belichicks who keep everybody in line. then there are people like me who come along and step on them.

Oh Tony,

Im sure you type these things just to provide us with some simple minded humor!

I mean - how can you seriously characterize the footballer as the parasite?

In terms of their relationship, it obvious to those who are sane that it is the agent who lives off the footballer - Deion Branch in this case.

The footballer can live without the agent - the opposite is not true - maybe you just dont know what a parasite is?

No wonder you are so keen on the word 'absurd' - it relates so well to 90% of your thoughts relating to the Patriots.

Keep going though, its always so amusing.

NM

hardwork
08-31-2006, 12:59 AM
LITP and you,hardwork, almost always seem to be on opposite sides.To say that the STEELERS have not had success at retaining their free agents without breaking the bank is absurd,

I never mentioned the Steelers. Obviously they've done a good job.

Livinginthe past
08-31-2006, 01:51 AM
I never mentioned the Steelers. Obviously they've done a good job.

Superbowl success in the salary cap era is a very new concept to these guys - they dont fully appreciate what happens to a players ego once he has won multiple titles and he can't keep raising his pay infinitely.

Whether they actually get to sample this, is another question all together - winning a second SB might be a good place to start......

NM

hardwork
08-31-2006, 03:19 AM
Superbowl success in the salary cap era is a very new concept to these guys - they dont fully appreciate what happens to a players ego once he has won multiple titles and he can't keep raising his pay infinitely.

Whether they actually get to sample this, is another question all together - winning a second SB might be a good place to start......

NM



The Patriots are rolling the team over a little each year and at the same time they're remaining competitive. It's an amazing thing to watch. They get younger less expensive players while they move the older players out yet they keep enough experience around to set the right tone. Their OL is young. They're bringing in young RBs. The core of their DL is young. And, low and behold, they're not only remaining under the cap, they're increasing their room under the cap. These guys know what they're doing.

HometownGal
08-31-2006, 08:59 AM
There is an infinitesimal worm/parasite that gets inside the brain of an ant and drives it to do nutty things that provide no benefit what so ever for the ant. The ant has no idea why it's following the wishes of the worm, in fact it doesn't even know it is.

There are people who have parasite like thoughts that get in their head and lead them to follow those thoughts around without having any idea why, or that, they are. When you run into these possessed people, ie tonyhipchest, the only thing you can do is hope that some day they'll recognize the symptoms and no longer allow themselves to host such parasitic notions.

C'mon hardwork - I think you could have made your rebuttal here without the insults and drivel. :rolleyes: What Tony said makes a hell of a lot of sense if you look deeper instead of skimming the surface.

tony hipchest
08-31-2006, 10:05 AM
Oh Tony, NM
yes, litp

Im sure you type these things just to provide us with some simple minded humor!as much as i have to explain the simple things, do you think i would drop complex humor on you?

I mean - how can you seriously characterize the footballer as the parasite?

did you mistakingly detect a serious tone and nature to my post? i suggest you start reading things twice. im impressed that my post simply making a play on hardworks nature story was so obvious to you :rolleyes:

In terms of their relationship, it obvious to those who are sane that it is the agent who lives off the footballer - Deion Branch in this case

The footballer can live without the agent - the opposite is not true - maybe you just dont know what a parasite is?

hence my sane statement that the agent has the most to lose.

ive read goulds thesis on the parasitic nature of the ant wasp. you should read it as it parlays to many forms of life. you might find yourself enlightened and realize things arent always either black or white. whats funny is hardworks definition of tonyhipchest as the parasite would be much more applicable to you 2, especially on this board.

No wonder you are so keen on the word 'absurd' - it relates so well to 90% of your thoughts relating to the Patriots.unfortunately for you and youre stance, my thoughts on the pats arent in the minority, especially in regards to the d. branch situation. i'll trust the thoughts of the gm's and capologists, and scouts, and analysts who have said branch will get no more money than what is offered by the patriots. i.e. the pats are going against their modus operandi and paying ABOVE market value. (that means you were wrong in the opinion that they never would do that for any player)

once again we see that any opinion not in line with litp's is viewed as "absurd"
*pokes his head with a needle and listens to all the air rush out*

Keep going though, its always so amusing.

many think so, and i get a kick out of it regardless.

Livinginthe past
08-31-2006, 10:29 AM
How does various GM's saying they wouldn't pay more for Branch mean that they wouldn't pay what the Patriots were actually offering?

I take that to mean that the money offered is reasonable and that anything more is unreasonable.

In other words the Patriots FO has got it just right.

Anyway, What GM's have actually offered a published opinion on this?

maybe you are just making that up?

Or did you mean former-GM's ie talking heads?

NM

tony hipchest
08-31-2006, 11:06 AM
How does various GM's saying they wouldn't pay more for Branch mean that they wouldn't pay what the Patriots were actually offering?

I take that to mean that the money offered is reasonable and that anything more is unreasonable.

In other words the Patriots FO has got it just right.

Anyway, What GM's have actually offered a published opinion on this?

maybe you are just making that up?

Or did you mean former-GM's ie talking heads?

NMa published opinion? :sofunny:

you see, here on this side of the pond, we have many more media outlets other than what you might find on a website. do you think everybody publishes their opinion? :sofunny:

you kill me. yeah, im just making it up :sofunny: (if that helps you sleep better)

it is obvious youre not in tune with popular opinion. (of course not, youre on the wrong side of it, and many who are much more knowledgable are on the right side)

you can try to dissect my statements all you want to find some ground to stand on. teams will not pay more than what he is being offered cause they dont think he is worth what he is being offered.

"As one GM who wouldn't mind getting another starting wide receiver said to me today, "He's better than what we have right now, but I'm not sure Brady doesn't make him look even better. I wonder what he will do with an average QB on the field."

this unnamed gm is not in the minority. you may wanna sleep on it before you offer a response. you seem tired. maybe youre just punch drunk. :boxing: :cool:

Livinginthe past
08-31-2006, 11:33 AM
a published opinion? :sofunny:

you see, here on this side of the pond, we have many more media outlets other than what you might find on a website. do you think everybody publishes their opinion? :sofunny:

you kill me. yeah, im just making it up :sofunny: (if that helps you sleep better)

it is obvious youre not in tune with popular opinion. (of course not, youre on the wrong side of it, and many who are much more knowledgable are on the right side)

you can try to dissect my statements all you want to find some ground to stand on. teams will not pay more than what he is being offered cause they dont think he is worth what he is being offered.

"As one GM who wouldn't mind getting another starting wide receiver said to me today, "He's better than what we have right now, but I'm not sure Brady doesn't make him look even better. I wonder what he will do with an average QB on the field."

this unnamed gm is not in the minority. you may wanna sleep on it before you offer a response. you seem tired. maybe youre just punch drunk. :boxing: :cool:

Well I remember a current GM saying "Bill Cowher is one of the most over-rated coaches of all time, if it wasn't for several; questionable decisions made by the zebra's in the Sb he would still be an icon for persistant underachievement"

Of course, I dont have a link or anything....but you know, I remember him saying it.

Maybe them 'GM's' do know their stuff.

You total lack of logic regarding the money offered to Branch is astounding.

If someone says that they dont think he is worth more than is being offered, this does not mean he already being offered too much.

Perhaps it is you who is tired, although I doubt any amount of sleep will alter this fact.

NM

tony hipchest
08-31-2006, 11:53 AM
Well I remember a current GM saying "Bill Cowher is one of the most over-rated coaches of all time, if it wasn't for several; questionable decisions made by the zebra's in the Sb he would still be an icon for persistant underachievement"

Of course, I dont have a link or anything....but you know, I remember him saying it.

Maybe them 'GM's' do know their stuff.

You total lack of logic regarding the money offered to Branch is astounding.

If someone says that they dont think he is worth more than is being offered, this does not mean he already being offered too much.

Perhaps it is you who is tired, although I doubt any amount of sleep will alter this fact.

NMyoure desperately grasping at straws as you spin out of control. your lack of comprehension is amazing. considering all that has been put on your table i can see where it might be tough to digest it all. fact remains. hes not worth the money being offered. all your hogwash will not alter that fact. the patriots know they cannot afford to lose him, hence the inflated offer that is well above market value ( now really what do you know about the market value in the nfl?)

this all may be a moot point cause as of right now it seems like its not about the money with branch, just getting out of boston where he is shackled by mediocrity. he has an inflated belief of what his capabilities are. hes small, light, and gets injured easilly. he should hold out to keep his open market value as high as possible.

Livinginthe past
08-31-2006, 11:59 AM
youre desperately grasping at straws as you spin out of control. your lack of comprehension is amazing. considering all that has been put on your table i can see where it might be tough to digest it all. fact remains. hes not worth the money being offered. all your hogwash will not alter that fact. the patriots know they cannot afford to lose him, hence the inflated offer that is well above market value ( now really what do you know about the market value in the nfl?)

this all may be a moot point cause as of right now it seems like its not about the money with branch, just getting out of boston where he is shackled by mediocrity. he has an inflated belief of what his capabilities are. hes small, light, and gets injured easilly. he should hold out to keep his open market value as high as possible.

You are the one who refuses to bow down to logic.

These 'sources' that you have concocted say he not worth more - not that he is being offered too much now.

I really doesnt matter how many times you want to repeat that you think he is being offered too much already.

Its funny that even the attempts you have at saying other 'GM's' back your opinion - end up backfiring right in your face.

The Patriots cannot afford to lose Tom Brady or Richard Seymour - they certainly can afford to lose Deion Branch - hence the two former players being signed and the latter not being signed.

It really is that simple Tony.

NM

tony hipchest
08-31-2006, 12:10 PM
You are the one who refuses to bow down to logic.

These 'sources' that you have concocted say he not worth more - not that he is being offered too much now.

I really doesnt matter how many times you want to repeat that you think he is being offered too much already.

Its funny that even the attempts you have at saying other 'GM's' back your opinion - end up backfiring right in your face.

The Patriots cannot afford to lose Tom Brady or Richard Seymour - they certainly can afford to lose Deion Branch - hence the two former players being signed and the latter not being signed.

It really is that simple Tony.

NMnothing has backfired. what is simple is that i am right and you are wrong. the educated opinions and analysis of many back this up.

Livinginthe past
08-31-2006, 12:23 PM
nothing has backfired. what is simple is that i am right and you are wrong. the educated opinions and analysis of many back this up.


Of course Tony.

Of course.

NM

hardwork
08-31-2006, 01:39 PM
What Tony said makes a hell of a lot of sense if you look deeper instead of skimming the surface.

Tell me what he said that makes sense. He just keeps grinding the same old ax no matter the topic. It's sad.

Livinginthe past
08-31-2006, 01:42 PM
Tell me what he said that makes sense. He just keeps grinding the same old ax no matter the topic. It's sad.

Im afraid, as you know, that its just so much hot-air.

Just aimless cheerleading of a poster who happens to be a Steelers fan.

Im sure he feels warm and cosy knowing that certain posters will back him up due to his team alliegence - despite displaying a complete lack of anything close to rational analysis.

You are right.

It is sad.

NM

Froggy
08-31-2006, 02:14 PM
Im sure he feels warm and cosy knowing that certain posters will back him up due to his team alliegence - despite displaying a complete lack of anything close to rational analysis.

You are right.

It is sad.

You can't be serious. As fans of Boston sports teams, you are the last people in America who should be talking about rational analysis.

Pot meet kettle.

tony hipchest
08-31-2006, 02:34 PM
rational analysis :

http://nfl.com/news/story/9624074

IS DEION BRANCH REALLY FOR SALE?
Do any of you have a neighbor or a relative who puts his house up for sale with no intention of selling it unless he gets his asking price? They kind of want to see what the market really is for their property.


It probably would be in Deion Branch's best interest to hold onto Tom Brady and the Patriots.
Well, by announcing that Deion Branch is free until Sept. 1 to bring a trade offer back to the Patriots really is the same thing. If Deion really turned down the reported Patriots offer of $33 million over five years -- with close to $19 million of it in the first three years -- then Branch has to find a team willing to part with close to $40 million over five years.

If he can get that part of the equation covered, then the Patriots will ask for compensation from the club. If a team is willing to say Branch is worth an average of more than $7 million a year, then it is recognizing he has first-round value in the trade. New England should expect at worst a second-round pick that converts to a No. 1 if Branch meets a certain performance level.

As one GM who wouldn't mind getting another starting wide receiver said to me today, "He's better than what we have right now, but I'm not sure Brady doesn't make him look even better. I wonder what he will do with an average QB on the field."

Certainly, Brady's preseason performance (35 for 54, 17 different Patriots with a reception) suggests the talent of the QB and the system has something to do with Branch's success in the past. As a personnel director said to me, "Don't get me wrong. Branch is a very good player, but the Patriots deal on the table is the right one."

Branch probably is going to see Sept. 1 come and go without a real trade unless he makes some concessions. The next thing we are likely to hear is that he will return if there's a promise not to use a franchise tag next season. I don't believe the Patriots would ever give up their right to use the tag, so Branch will return to New England. He has hefty fines to pay, and he might want to rethink New England's offer if it's still on the table after his fact-finding mission.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

some things of note:

while litp contends they will not set a precedent and overpay for a player they are clearly doing that with the absurd offer on the table.

why would branch reject such a lavish offer? perhaps he feels the pats will continue to water down his stats and he will never realize the potential he feels he has. maybe numbers do matter to him as much as rings. maybe he feels he has not ben a success, just a mere token extension of tom brady. pretty humiliating. maybe having a hall of fame career matters too.

a good reason to sit out is that he knows he wont re sign with the patriots next year no matter the offer. sure he loses part of a million this year but if he plays and gets hurt (which is very likely) his stock plummets.

it will be cool watching how this plays out. everything says its about the money so why hasnt he accepted the best deal he will be offered? could it be that being respected as a man is worth more than another $10,000 piece of jewelry?

VERSUS THIS:



"I have no evidence of this, nor any inside information, but I'm getting the feeling that Branch is gone.

Yesterday I heard two things that concern me. One, that Branch has been shooting for free agency all along. Two, some one who's opinion I respect said he felt that Branch was not coming back to the Patriots.

I don't how he can do it though. He can't sit out the year it would cost him too much. And the Patriots aren't going to just let him walk without getting something for him."


LMAO! you clowns kill me! try again litp.

Livinginthe past
08-31-2006, 03:11 PM
rational analysis :some things of note:

while litp contends they will not set a precedent and overpay for a player they are clearly doing that with the absurd offer on the table.

why would branch reject such a lavish offer? perhaps he feels the pats will continue to water down his stats and he will never realize the potential he feels he has. maybe numbers do matter to him as much as rings. maybe he feels he has not ben a success, just a mere token extension of tom brady. pretty humiliating. maybe having a hall of fame career matters too.

a good reason to sit out is that he knows he wont re sign with the patriots next year no matter the offer. sure he loses part of a million this year but if he plays and gets hurt (which is very likely) his stock plummets.

it will be cool watching how this plays out. everything says its about the money so why hasnt he accepted the best deal he will be offered? could it be that being respected as a man is worth more than another $10,000 piece of jewelry?



VERSUS THIS:



"I have no evidence of this, nor any inside information, but I'm getting the feeling that Branch is gone.

Yesterday I heard two things that concern me. One, that Branch has been shooting for free agency all along. Two, some one who's opinion I respect said he felt that Branch was not coming back to the Patriots.

I don't how he can do it though. He can't sit out the year it would cost him too much. And the Patriots aren't going to just let him walk without getting something for him."


LMAO! you clowns kill me! try again litp.


Well thats fantastic Tony.

The best part of what you quoted was unfortunately straight from nfl.com - your 'take' on it began with your opinion of the Patriots 'absurd' offer - which we have demonstrated isn't viewed as absurd by anyone who matters.

The bit you quoted underneath, again, wasn't anything to do with me.

If you have issues with what hardwork posted - take it up with him, not me.

As far as im concerned he posted what his gut feeling on the subject was, and was clear about that - what you tried to do was piggy back your thoughts on the back of a genuine article from nfl.com and pass it off as 'analysis' - including your touching thoughts on what it is to be a man.

NM

tony hipchest
08-31-2006, 03:57 PM
who took anything up with you? ive already demonstrated that you confuse the term "anyone who matters" with "myself" (meaning yourself litp). i brought a rational analysis to the conversation and then i offered my take (im not alone in my takes) so once again i have shown you to be wrong. did you not say i dont bring any rationality?

" - including your touching thoughts on what it is to be a man." ???????????

you are so confused dude! read. read again. re- read one more time. and then try posting. youre just pissed cause i said the pats have watered down his statistics in hopes that they would never be in this predicament in the 1st place. you are irrational to believe otherwise. the evidence is mounting against you. there is talks in the football circles that the pats werent gonna utilize him as much this year anyways. once again i know what i am talking about and it ticks you off that i might be right.

Livinginthe past
08-31-2006, 05:23 PM
who took anything up with you? ive already demonstrated that you confuse the term "anyone who matters" with "myself" (meaning yourself litp). i brought a rational analysis to the conversation and then i offered my take (im not alone in my takes) so once again i have shown you to be wrong. did you not say i dont bring any rationality?

" - including your touching thoughts on what it is to be a man." ???????????

you are so confused dude! read. read again. re- read one more time. and then try posting. youre just pissed cause i said the pats have watered down his statistics in hopes that they would never be in this predicament in the 1st place. you are irrational to believe otherwise. the evidence is mounting against you. there is talks in the football circles that the pats werent gonna utilize him as much this year anyways. once again i know what i am talking about and it ticks you off that i might be right.

Oh dear.

So let me get this straight.

Your rational analysis of the Deion Branch situation is thus ;

1. Various 'talking heads' have said that the Patriots should not pay Branch anymore than they have already offered

Tony's Translation : The Patriots current offer is absurdly high, which is a sign that they desperately need him.

LITP's Analysis : When the talking heads say that paying more than the current offer on the table is absurd - that has no reflection on the actual offer - in fact it intimates that it is a well placed offer - neither too much, not too little.

2. Deion Branch's ego is preventing him from signing up with the Patriots - he is worried that everyone perceives him as a makeweight in the offense.

Tony's Translation : Deion Branch has masculinity issues and needs to find a new team in order to be a real man - you actually wrote words to this effect.

LITP's Analysis : Its been pointed out numerous times that ego is the main downfall of most players, especially ones who rate themselves higher than they should.
This is nothing new and certainly does apply to this siutation -which i have allude to in previous posts.

3. Deion Branch is part of a famed offense that likes to spead the ball around, utilizing the outstanding accuracy of one Tom Brady.

Tony's Translation : The Patriots have deliberately formulated an offensive strategy to 'water down' Deion Branch's stats - whilst simultaneously winning Championships.

LITP's Analysis : Ludicrous. The Patriots utilize an offensive system that allows them to win games and Championships. That Deion Branch is a victim of spreading the ball around is a symptom, not a cause.

I dont believe any evidence is mounting against me at all, all I see is the biased irrational thought process of a Steeler fan.

If evidence was indeed mounting then you would have no problem at all in showing me a few articles that backed your theories - especially the ones that say the Patriots have deliberately kept the ball away from Deion in order to make resigning him easier.

As for your 'talking football circles' - well good luck with them - its called a rumor mill and thats what the preseason is about.

Im sure if I looked hard enough I could find a circle that told me that the Dolphins would lose to the Panthers in this years Superbowl.

I wouldnt have to look far for such a ridiculous theory.

NM

hardwork
08-31-2006, 05:40 PM
Look, LITP, it's none of my business, but why bother? This guy has no feel for the game of football. Clearly he doesn't enjoy it. He only wants to turn everything upside down. He's a punk and has been from the day he started posting in here.

Livinginthe past
08-31-2006, 05:52 PM
Sure I take your point HW.

I just get a little bored of seeing him continually spouting off about the Patriots in an ignorant fashion.

Back him into a corner and suddenly he'd rather discuss the Boston Tea party, that or crow about how annoying he feels himself to be.

NM