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-   -   Final Mock (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=102775)

cbrunn 03-22-2014 09:59 AM

Final Mock
 
This is just what I want and not really projecting what the team will do ... and I will use Walterfootball latest Mock to see who's there when we pick

I'll also add a 3rd comp , Won't go passed the 5th because who knows what'll happen

1 - Kelvin Benjamin, WR , FSU
-Yes I understand he's a boom or bust prospect but I just cannot let that potential passed me, and at worst he'd end up going to Bmore, Cinci or Clev ... I don't really want to play this guy 2 times a year mixed with what they already got. YR 1 Benjamin would mainly be used in Redzone, Slants and Fades, Projection 5+ TDs in YR 1

2 - Kyle Van Noy, ILB/OLB, BYU
- this is I wanted last year in the 1st rd, He didn't have the same kind of year but this position versatility he brings... He could start Inside next too Timmons, and provide depth at OLB if Jarvis or Worilds gets injured - kind of a 2 birds with 1 stone kind of pick

3rd - EJ Gaines, CB, Mizzou
- Gaines is molded to be a Steeler, He plays good off coverage and is really strong in run support. Shut Mike Evans down in their battle.

4 - Phillip Gaines, CB, Rice
- This guy is Ike Taylor 2.0 - Smaller School, all the athletic Tools - but Honestly I don't expect him to fall this far, but in Waltersmock he did, So that's what I'm going by - (Gaines and Gaines CB Duo would also be pretty cool)

5- DeAndre Coleman, DE , Cal
- Will bring some depth and added competition at the DE position with Arnfelt and Williams - I can see the starting Dline being, Heyward - Thomas - McClendon ... but we still need some depth

devin7558 03-22-2014 10:53 AM

Re: Final Mock
 
I like all those picks. I'm not a huge believer in going after Benjamin with that #1 though. He could be had trading back some. I think he will be a quality possession redzone target but he's maddeningly inconsistent from game to game and even drive to drive. If he puts it all together fast he has 10 + TD potential so I see the risk reward type of value there. I wouldn't be terribly mad at that pick but I think this is such a deep WR class there's no rush to reach. They need to hit their #1 selection out of the park this time around.

Van Noy would be perfect in the 2nd if he hangs around that long. He is one of, if not the best defensive playmaker in this draft and that's saying something. He strengthens the entire LB corp.

I'm like EJ Gaines for all the reasons you slotted him at the compensatory pick. He's solid. Excelled against big time college WRs. His comfort ability in off coverage is a huge positive.

Phillip Gaines will probably be there when they pick. He has all the measurable traits and would need time and a lot of coaching but he closes in a flash and has good hands and length. It's another high risk/reward pick. A pretty good comparison to a young Ike. Is he as hungry as Ike was though?

My favorite selection is Coleman. He will be toward the end of my final mock too. He's built like and plays like a natural steeler 5 tech DE. I got to watch 4 or 5 Cal games this year and he blew me away. He has raw strength and holds the edge so well. He also drew 2 lineman consistently and still made plays. He will be overlooked come May. I think he could come in and be the primary backup spot or challenge for the spot in camp.

cbrunn 03-22-2014 05:22 PM

Re: Final Mock
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by devin7558 (Post 1281680)
I like all those picks. I'm not a huge believer in going after Benjamin with that #1 though. He could be had trading back some. I think he will be a quality possession redzone target but he's maddeningly inconsistent from game to game and even drive to drive. If he puts it all together fast he has 10 + TD potential so I see the risk reward type of value there. I wouldn't be terribly mad at that pick but I think this is such a deep WR class there's no rush to reach. They need to hit their #1 selection out of the park this time around.
.

But no other WR has the potential that Benjamin has though ... I think realistically he can go anywhere from 20-32 , I don't think he drops out of the 1st round ... and 1 team is San Fran who has the Ammo and Quality of a team to take a chance and trade up and get the guy that they seem to really like (I thought about posing a trade down with them, But man I can't just imagine playing this guy)

Also if not, I see Baltimore who picks right after us I believe would take a large look at him - Torey Smith and Kelvin Benjamin could be a scary Duo to face twice a year, and they need to help out Flacco either Oline or WR

Cinci not many "Needs" and other WRs other than AJ aren't really scary at all - AJ Green and Kelvin Benjamin could help out Andy Dalton a lot

Cleveland same thing - Josh Gordon and Kelvin Benjamin (also maybe along with Sammy Watkins @#4) ... That is wayyy to scary for me to see twice a year

I'd just rather have that guy on our team , with AB and Wheaton

PhantomJB93 03-23-2014 03:11 AM

Re: Final Mock
 
I don't mind your mock, and while I'm not a fan of Benjamin at 15 (at all) I understand why you guys want it, but I don't think the argument that Baltimore, Cincy, or Cleveland would wind up with him should matter, at all. Yeah, nobody wants to see them get a great player we could have had, but our draft strategy should be solely on making US better, not being fickle and preventing a division rival from getting somebody even if they're not the top selection for our own team.

And I think the only way Kelvin Benjamin is the best player "for us" at 15 and not "for not Baltimore/Cleveland/Cincinnati" is if the top 10 teams all decide to pass on quarterbacks and snag up all the good defensive players and Watkins/Evans; a scenario which I do not think will happen.

cbrunn 03-23-2014 07:48 AM

Re: Final Mock
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PhantomJB93 (Post 1281909)
I don't mind your mock, and while I'm not a fan of Benjamin at 15 (at all) I understand why you guys want it, but I don't think the argument that Baltimore, Cincy, or Cleveland would wind up with him should matter, at all. Yeah, nobody wants to see them get a great player we could have had, but our draft strategy should be solely on making US better, not being fickle and preventing a division rival from getting somebody even if they're not the top selection for our own team.

And I think the only way Kelvin Benjamin is the best player "for us" at 15 and not "for not Baltimore/Cleveland/Cincinnati" is if the top 10 teams all decide to pass on quarterbacks and snag up all the good defensive players and Watkins/Evans; a scenario which I do not think will happen.

That's not the only reason, but who I would rather play does factor in, not like WR isn't a "need" , not like its just a position like RB or QB or something where we are set... He has the highest potential out of any WR ... And he's better than Evans, my opinion

Who at 15 is a better option?

Dennard - I love dennard big supporter - and it comes down to the player would I rather play dennard or Benjamin, I'd rather play dennard

Gilbert - over rated cause he's athletic, his burn tendency is wayy to high

Mosely - I hate Alabama products, they are way to hard to tell how good cause the talent and coaching around them - I just don't trust them

Barr - why another OLB, unless they feel Jarvis can slide inside, but I believe in Jarvis, was a rookie playing in a defense no other rookie ever played in besides this past year

Lewan - not sure if he'll drop, but I want play makers - you can argue he's a better player if you want - but the focus on the 2 lines has left us at a loss for play makers, that's the bottom line

Ebron - I'm not a huge fan of ebron, He's good but honestly Benjamin is a better blocker in my opinion so Benjamin can play that jimmy graham, Hernandez type role if you want to go there again came down to who I would rather play, and I'd rather play ebron than Benjamin

Nix - over rated, I wouldn't touch him before the 2nd round - and again tired of spending picks on guys for the lines, I want play makers

I would take Benjamin over Evans if Evans was still on the board

MontaniSemperLiberi 03-23-2014 03:34 PM

Re: Final Mock
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cbrunn (Post 1281967)
That's not the only reason, but who I would rather play does factor in, not like WR isn't a "need" , not like its just a position like RB or QB or something where we are set... He has the highest potential out of any WR ... And he's better than Evans, my opinion

Who at 15 is a better option?

Dennard - I love dennard big supporter - and it comes down to the player would I rather play dennard or Benjamin, I'd rather play dennard

Gilbert - over rated cause he's athletic, his burn tendency is wayy to high

Mosely - I hate Alabama products, they are way to hard to tell how good cause the talent and coaching around them - I just don't trust them

Barr - why another OLB, unless they feel Jarvis can slide inside, but I believe in Jarvis, was a rookie playing in a defense no other rookie ever played in besides this past year

Lewan - not sure if he'll drop, but I want play makers - you can argue he's a better player if you want - but the focus on the 2 lines has left us at a loss for play makers, that's the bottom line

Ebron - I'm not a huge fan of ebron, He's good but honestly Benjamin is a better blocker in my opinion so Benjamin can play that jimmy graham, Hernandez type role if you want to go there again came down to who I would rather play, and I'd rather play ebron than Benjamin

Nix - over rated, I wouldn't touch him before the 2nd round - and again tired of spending picks on guys for the lines, I want play makers

I would take Benjamin over Evans if Evans was still on the board

I definitely agree with everything your saying! Benjamin has the highest potential of all this year's receivers to make an impact for the Steelers: he uses his body (and sometimes his hands - lol) to shield the defender away from the ball and he goes up for the jump ball better than everyone mentioned. (I'm a WVU fan so to me he looks like Stedman Bailey with Size... that's a good thing)

Evans is a poor route runner and doesn't use his frame effectively to highpoint the ball.

I think Brandon Coleman, Devin Street, and Cody Latimer will also be better NFL receivers than Evans.

devin7558 03-24-2014 10:54 PM

Re: Final Mock
 
Watch his tape...all of it. He has some vey glaring weaknesses. I think he's a probable bust.

Negatives:

Drops
Drops
Drops
Raw athlete, is not refined in any one aspect of the position
Not a deep threat in college let alone the NFL
rarely makes the tough catches in the middle of the field
Mental lapses leading to hard to explain drops and miscommunications with his QB
Rarely attacks the ball, he waits on it consistently and even catches with his body most times
Does not improvise well when a play breaks down, rarely works back to the QB
Looks lost at times, especially in the running game or when he's the last read on the play
Will need a LOT of route running work in a pro offense
Doesn't separate at the top of the route
Pushes off the Defender (gets away with it a lot)
Drops way to many balls...way to many
Is likely a #2 "possession" WR at the next level
Will turn 24 when selected this season and may not be a full time contributor in this offense until he is 26 or 27.
Not an overly physical guy for all that size.
Hand fights instead of boxing out defenders in the end zone
Was rarely challenged at the line by CBs in press coverage, will face that more in the NFL
His conditioning is average. Looks winded by the end of most games which leads me to my final opinion:
Questionable work ethic. Has succeeded due to natural size not technique.

All of these are sound reasons he should go early to mid 2nd round. He is a monumental reach at 15 and is easily the biggest risk/reward offensive player in this draft. This draft is loaded at WR. Take one later. If you watch the tape Evans is a superior prospect all the way around. So is Ebron.

devin7558 03-24-2014 10:59 PM

Re: Final Mock
 
That beig said he is a playmaker. I understand the excitement about him. I just think at 15 it's a bit early.

Kingmagyar 03-25-2014 12:32 AM

Re: Final Mock
 
Doing a lot of research on Benjamin right now and comparing him to a lot of the other receivers in the draft and in particular the kinds of receivers the Steelers have drafted. (guys with lots of catches in college)

What I have found so far about Benjamin mostly from his last year of stats is:

Benjamin had 84 rec/ for 1,506 in 2 years
8 out of 14 games held to 3 catches or less. And that wasn't against stellar competition (wake forrest, bethune-cookman, nevada, etc.)
And had only 3 100 yard games in 14 all season.
4.61 speed in 40.
Biggest games were 9 for 212 against Florida and 3 for 103 Boston Col.
His game log stats for 2012 are not great either with him only topping 60 yards 3 times and his high was 77.

Look at his game by game stats. Very inconsistent.

The Steelers may be enamored with his height and body mass but NFL network had a stat that in the entire history of the NFL only 2 players played WR over 240 and neither was a star. He would have to be the first to break that trend. Benjamin is not Calvin Johnson and AJ Green. He will never be those guys simply because he runs 4.61 in the 40.

Penn State's Allen Robinson runs just as fast (or slow) as Benjamin but has far greater numbers.
177 rec. for 2479 in 3 seasons.
Last Year 97 rec for 1,432.
9 of the 12 games played had at least 98 yards.
At least 7 rec in 10 of the 12 games played.

and he can be drafted in the 2nd.

PhantomJB93 03-25-2014 01:04 AM

Re: Final Mock
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cbrunn (Post 1281967)
That's not the only reason, but who I would rather play does factor in, not like WR isn't a "need" , not like its just a position like RB or QB or something where we are set... He has the highest potential out of any WR ... And he's better than Evans, my opinion

Who at 15 is a better option? My big board: Barr, Evans, Dennard, Gilbert, Ebron, Mosley, Fuller, Nix, Benjamin. In that order.

Dennard - I love dennard big supporter - and it comes down to the player would I rather play dennard or Benjamin, I'd rather play dennard But Dennard would be better for our own team? I get what you're saying but it still sounds like you're prioritizing who would be a good draft pick for the Ravens ahead of who would be a good draft pick for the Steelers

Gilbert - over rated cause he's athletic, his burn tendency is wayy to high Completely agree that Gilbert is more flashy than solid and will get burned, but at the same time he will produce splash plays and turnovers which we sorely lack. I could go either way on him honestly

Mosely - I hate Alabama products, they are way to hard to tell how good cause the talent and coaching around them - I just don't trust them Agree to an extent but has also been one of the best defenders for the last few seasons and ILB is a huge need. He's far down on my big board at 15 but I would still give him a shot before I drafted a lot of other guys projected to go in the 20's. But I definitely think Skov is much better value in the third or even the second and would much prefer to get a CB or WR in the first or second and get Skov if we can.

Barr - why another OLB, unless they feel Jarvis can slide inside, but I believe in Jarvis, was a rookie playing in a defense no other rookie ever played in besides this past year If Barr is on the board he is the BPA, simple as that. If it weren't for Clowney and Mack who are generational talents he would be a slam-dunk top 5 pick and the top pass rusher in just about any other draft class. I don't think he will be but I don't think you can pass on him either. This would indeed create a weird situation but I'd try to trade down with somebody who really wants him (Cardinals?) and if that couldn't happen I'd draft him and make Worilds or Jones an ILB.

Lewan - not sure if he'll drop, but I want play makers - you can argue he's a better player if you want - but the focus on the 2 lines has left us at a loss for play makers, that's the bottom line Completely agree and he just got in some trouble with the law, I'd stay away from him

Ebron - I'm not a huge fan of ebron, He's good but honestly Benjamin is a better blocker in my opinion so Benjamin can play that jimmy graham, Hernandez type role if you want to go there again came down to who I would rather play, and I'd rather play ebron than Benjamin Ebron is a much more polished receiver with much better hands, and has the bulk to legitimately play TE. Benjamin is a "better blocker" as a WR but he is blocking primarily DB's downfield, blocking for a TE at the line is much different and even if it's not his strongsuit, he can still do it and comparing Ebron's blocking to Benjamin's is like comparing apples to oranges. I would pick him at 15

Nix - over rated, I wouldn't touch him before the 2nd round - and again tired of spending picks on guys for the lines, I want play makers I definitely think he's a first round prospect but I agree, hell no at 15

I would take Benjamin over Evans if Evans was still on the board IDK about this but I won't argue it, Evans produced more in college, has much better hands, and is definitely more NFL-ready but Benjamin may have more upside if he gets it together

I addressed all of these within the quote, overall I agree with a lot of your points but I still think you're looking too much at how Benjamin would help the Ravens than how he'd help the Steelers. If we played the Ravens every game that strategy might hold water but the reality is we only play them twice, perhaps three times a year...does Benjamin really help the Steelers in those other 14 games more than Dennard would? Does he really hurt the Steelers enough in those two games to justify taking him even if Dennard is better for the other 14? I'm totally cool with trading down and taking him if that's possible but we don't (or shouldn't) get to pick this early often and Benjamin's drops/inconsistency just makes him too big a gamble at 15 when there are other more solid, NFL ready talents that also fill positions of need available.


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