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-   -   Could Defenses Manipulate New Rule? (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=19873)

BeuffordLTD 09-20-2007 09:03 AM

Could Defenses Manipulate New Rule?
 
This year the NFL introduced a new ruling that basically states that a delay of game penalty (5 yards) will be assessed if a player spikes the ball after a play (see penalty on Evans last week.)

Now, if the receiver gains a first down, the offense keeps the first down, but starts 1st and 15. Couldn't a defensive player just kick the ball after an offensive player spikes it, earn a delay of game penalty, and create a scenario with offsetting penalties and redo the play...basically nullifying the first down?

I could be totally wrong on this, just looking for some insight.

tony hipchest 09-20-2007 09:06 AM

Re: Could Defenses Manipulate New Rule?
 
i dont know if that could be considered unsportsmanlike conduct, and earn the offense 15 yds and a 1st down. no matter the ruling, i think theres a rule in place that would not give the defense such an easy way out.

rog 09-20-2007 09:10 AM

Re: Could Defenses Manipulate New Rule?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BeuffordLTD (Post 297080)
This year the NFL introduced a new ruling that basically states that a delay of game penalty (5 yards) will be assessed if a player spikes the ball after a play (see penalty on Evans last week.)

Now, if the receiver gains a first down, the offense keeps the first down, but starts 1st and 15. Couldn't a defensive player just kick the ball after an offensive player spikes it, earn a delay of game penalty, and create a scenario with offsetting penalties and redo the play...basically nullifying the first down?

I could be totally wrong on this, just looking for some insight.

If the defender kicked the ball after the offensive player spikes it the play would already be over so it would be a dead ball foul which means the offense would keep the first down not to mention that by kicking the ball by the defender could possibly be looked at as unsportsmanlike conduct resulting in a 15 yard penalty.

ShutDown24 09-20-2007 09:21 AM

Re: Could Defenses Manipulate New Rule?
 
Did you catch that on NFL network’s official review? Eisen really got the V.P there... His face was like ____________ Anyway; with Pereira’s explanation yes a defense could manipulate that rule.

"Any minor foul at all that coincides with another minor foul from the opposing team automatically off-set"

SO yes, if the receiver were to spike a ball then have the defender pick it up and spike it, it would definitely give the defense the edge deducting the offensive gain. They are both dead ball fouls since the receiver spiked/threw the ball after he was downed obviously.

Answer: Yes - But it is WAAAY to hard to pull off on purpose to be of any use. And will anyone use it besides maybe the Patriots? Doubtful, especially considering the fact that most players don’t even know about the spike/throw rule yet… ><

BeuffordLTD 09-20-2007 09:22 AM

Re: Could Defenses Manipulate New Rule?
 
Thanks for the info.

I hadn't considered the dead ball call in which a more severe penalty is assessed rather than offset.

Mosca 09-20-2007 09:40 AM

Re: Could Defenses Manipulate New Rule?
 
Wouldn't it just offset the 5 yards? D kicks the ball, O starts with first and 10 instead of first and 15.


Tom

rog 09-20-2007 09:46 AM

Re: Could Defenses Manipulate New Rule?
 
When the offense gets a first down and then gets a dead ball foul after the play they get to keep the first down. I would have thought they would get to keep the first down even if the defense makes an offsetting penalty but I guess I was wrong on that one.

ShutDown24 09-20-2007 10:06 AM

Re: Could Defenses Manipulate New Rule?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rog (Post 297100)
When the offense gets a first down and then gets a dead ball foul after the play they get to keep the first down. I would have thought they would get to keep the first down even if the defense makes an offsetting penalty but I guess I was wrong on that one.


You should be right but unfortunatley according to Mike Pereira (V.P of NFL officiating) that isn't the case :(

Livinginthe past 09-20-2007 10:22 AM

Re: Could Defenses Manipulate New Rule?
 
I don't follow the logic of this one - team A gets the first down, ball is dead gets spiked.

Foul assessed at the end of the play 1st and 15.

D-player kicks the ball away, offsetting the original foul - offense gains back the 5 yards - 1st and 10...and back where we started.

I can't see how a defensive penalty can possibly move the ball backwards.

rog 09-20-2007 10:31 AM

Re: Could Defenses Manipulate New Rule?
 
I would hope that if a defender kicks or throws the ball after a play they get hit with unsportsmanlike conduct or something.


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