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BrandonCarr39 03-22-2010 11:23 PM

IRS Gains Broader Powers Under Health Reform

Congressional Democrats broadly expanded the powers of the Internal Revenue Service in health reform, says a new analysis from ranking Republicans on the House Ways & Means Committee.

The IRS’s powers are effective immediately, as an estimated $400 billion in new taxes and fees kick in starting in 2013.

The insurance mandate takes effect in 2013, too. New coverage subsidies for small businesses begin immediately; the new long-term care entitlement starts in 2011; and new insurance exchanges start in 2013 as well.

Broader IRS powers also are being enacted despite the news that dozens of states may mount potential court challenges based on the constitutionality of health reform’s insurance mandate, among other things (Click on EMac's January column: “Is Health Reform Unconstitutional?”). Florida, Alabama, Idaho, Nebraska ,Virginia, Texas, Utah and Washington number among the states planning court challenges.

Some legal experts say this fight may reach the level of the US Supreme Court, as it centers on the US Constitution's interstate commerce clause. Congressional Democrats say they have the power to mandate that taxpayers must buy health insurance or pay a fine.

Even though legal experts say the US constitution does not force Americans to buy any good or service as a condition of being a citizen, and that the constitution does not let Congress regulate the act of doing nothing, meaning having to pay a fine if you don't buy insurance.

Also, the insurance exchanges launched in the bill essentially do not let taxpayers buy health insurance across state lines, although the new law says states may merge their exchanges with neighboring states.

The IRS will now have the ability to issue liens, seize tax refunds, assess penalties, and to verify whether taxpayers' health insurance coverage is "acceptable."

“One of the most troubling aspects of this new IRS authority is the newly granted power to collect additional taxes from Americans whose health insurance coverage is deemed to be insufficient to meet the definition of minimum coverage, as defined by federal bureaucrats, required to be purchased,” the House Republicans’ analysis says.

The report adds: “Disturbingly, the IRS would be in charge of verifying that every American taxpayer has obtained acceptable health coverage for every month of the year. If the IRS determines that a taxpayer lacks acceptable insurance for even a single month, then the IRS would impose a new tax on that taxpayer, even auditing the taxpayer and could assess interest and penalties on top of the tax.”

The agency might have to hire as many as 16,500 additional staffers, including new auditors and agents, so as to oversee the program, says Rep. Dave Camp, R-Mich., the ranking Republican on the Ways and Means Committee. That would come at an additional taxpayer cost of $10 billion, estimates show.

"It is a very dangerous expansion of the IRS' power and reach into the lives of virtually every American," Rep. Camp said in a statement.

The Ways and Means report says, among other things:

IRS agents would be tasked with determining whether Americans had obtained the insurance coverage required under the individual mandate.
Individuals could be fined $2,250 or 2 percent of income, whichever is greater, if you are unable to prove you have "minimum essential coverage."
The IRS would be empowered to confiscate tax refunds if necessary.
Audits probably would increase as a result of the legislation's new requirements.
The budget for IRS operations will balloon by $10 billion in the next decade in order to administrate the new program.
Nearly half of the new individual mandate taxes will be paid "by Americans earning less than 300 percent of poverty, $66150 for a family of four.

Read more:

steelerdude15 03-22-2010 11:28 PM

Re: IRS Gains Broader Powers Under Health Reform

Some legal experts say this fight may reach the level of the US Supreme Court
This is going to go to the Supreme Court, it might be a little while, but it will be there. I'm pretty sure more states will also join with the nine that are planning on suing.

BrandonCarr39 03-22-2010 11:37 PM

Re: IRS Gains Broader Powers Under Health Reform
Did y'all know that the IRS also has a stranglehold on their fellow 501c3 churches? If any pastor tells you that to just merely keep their tax-exempt status, they only need not endorse a political candidate-They are LYING.

by Dr. Greg J. Dixon


The most prominent and successful certified public accountant firm in the nation today, that specializes in keeping churches out of trouble with the Internal Revenue Service, is now boldly saying to the pastors of America that they not only have to be "ordained by God, but also the IRS."

They also say that the IRS is dictating terms to the churches by declaring in clear and no uncertain terms that, "The government doesn't want your Bible, they want your checkbook!" In seminars all over the US, Chitwood and Chitwood of Chattanooga, Tennessee, is repeating this startling announcement to pastors and church leaders. Without so much as a blush, Michael Chitwood, the main speaker, says, besides the above quotes, "Pastor, if you don't get your house in order, get ready, you are going to have a jail ministry" as he practically screams out to those present as to what pastors and church leaders must do to avoid jail time and the confiscation of church property by the federal government.

Besides giving the pastor his job description, which is based on the Roman Catholic model of worship and polity, the IRS is demanding many other things that are clearly designed to make the IRS Commissioner the new head of the churches in America Some of these demands are as follows: The church must collect a Federal ID (Social Security) number from visiting evangelists, missionaries, preachers and singers before they invite them to the pulpit. They must give a Form 1099 to any minister who receives up to $600 in a years time, which includes missionary support. If the ID is not received, the church leaders must withhold a jeopardy assessment of 39% on the spot and send it to the IRS. They must agree to the IRS definition of benevolence. They cannot deal in cash at any level, but must deposit all offerings into a checking account and write checks for every purpose. This means, of course, that the church, in order to conduct its ministry, has to have an Employer Identification Number which must be provided by the IRS by filing Form SS-4 which a true New Testament church could never do and remain obedient to her Lord. In fact, church leaders would have to misrepresent the church as a religious organization rather than a N.T. Church to do so. Other things that pastors and church leaders are required to do are to be an informer against their members and also to preach only IRS prescribed sermons. Also, all fund raising material must be submitted to the IRS for their approval.

The job description for pastors is a list of nine specific sacerdotal duties which again is a Roman Catholic definition meaning sacred. The Catholic church teaches that these sacraments, when administered by a priest, are essential to ones salvation. This is totally opposite to the Bible definition which states that baptism and communion are memorials of the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and that they follow salvation. The nine duties are: baptisms, weddings, serving the Eucharist (the Catholic sacrament of communion), teaching , spiritual counseling, christenings or baby dedications, administration of church affairs and the regular conducting of worship services. If the pastor does a substantial number of these things, he will receive very lucrative tax breaks. This is in clear violation of the scriptures concerning the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes which the Lord Jesus said that He hates (Rev. 2:6, 2:15). It is the setting up of a privileged class of clergy with benefits from the state that lay members do not receive. Others who minister to the church in the area of music, youth, children, education and other areas of responsibility don't qualify.

This is consistent with what officials of the IRS told Attorney David Gibbs of the Christian Law Association (CLA) in 1984 when they said that their definition of church is "once per week adult worship." They said that they did not consider such ministries as Sunday school, Christian school, busses, youth camp, vacation Bible school, nursing home, etc., to fall within their definition of the word "church". This Gibbs/IRS meeting took place in Washington, DC at the time that the so called champion of Christian liberty was hammering out a compromise with the Dole Committee (Sen. Bob Dole-R-Kansas) in the US Senate to bring the churches into compliance with the FICA tax (social security) laws. This was the deal that would eventually cause the raid and seizure of the Baptist Temple 17 years later. It's too bad that Gibbs didn't sound the alarm at that time and call the Bible believing pastors together for a summit meeting to map out a strategy that could have possibly saved our churches and ministries. The unregistered church pastors tried, but unfortunately our words fell on deaf ears. The so called "big" preachers were too busy receiving their tax deductible gifts and building their empires to be concerned over the future of God's work. Now the enemies of Christ have sprung the trap and it is too late.

These requirements should be intolerable enough by just the fact that the IRS would even dare to suggest duties for pastors, but to impose under the penalty of imprisonment and confiscation of property the same responsibilities of Roman Catholic priests is nothing short of naked tyranny. Obviously, the inquisition has returned and the pastors and churches of America are not even aware that it has arrived. The raid and seizure of the property of the Baptist Temple is the direct result of the pastors and church refusing to bow down to this new wave of Catholic terror that has come upon our land. The issue in the Baptist Temple case isn't taxes as the IRS, with the help of the media, has led the people of Indianapolis and nation to believe. The issue is very simple. Will the churches of America bow down to the IRS in violation of the first commandment, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me," or will they bow down to the Lord Jesus Christ? Our Lord said, "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon" (Matthew 6:24). The purge is now on as we hear of churches and ministries being closed on a regular basis. But there is still no evidence that the pastors have awakened from their stupor.

The benevolent requirements for churches are beyond atrocious. They are five in number: food, clothing, housing, medical emergencies and utilities. The church cannot help with transportation or auto repairs and a myriad of other things that churches have historically done on a regular basis. The church cannot make loans to the pastor, members, or others which churches have always done. Obviously, they want to make sure that the money lenders get their profits even from the poor. Can you imagine the government of the US limiting a church as to its duties in regarding charitable activity? There is no subject in the Bible that is nearer to the heart of God than charity. According to the apostle James, it is the test of pure religion (James 1:27). Paul the Apostle declares that charity is of higher value even than preaching and sacrifice (I Cor. 13:1-3). For the churches to debase such a high and noble service to Christ by submitting its administration to the wicked IRS is beyond belief. How will the preachers of America give an account of caving into this coercion by an abusive Bush administration who is continuing with the policies of those before him? How will church leaders face the Lord Jesus at the Judgment Seat of Christ when He asks them why they violated His clear commands concerning alms giving? He said, "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men, Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly." But now the churches are required to get the permission of the IRS before helping someone other than in the manner and purpose that they approve. Then records will have to be kept for the IRS so that the publicans can make sure that the church is in fact following their guidelines. And, of course, they expect church leaders to report this alms giving to the IRS so that they can even gouge the poor for more tribute. And all of this so the churches can keep their tax exemption and the people can get their precious tax deductions for their tithes and gifts. As James Dobson's organization said when challenged, "It's just good stewardship." Thievery, good stewardship? How sad.

It may be that the churches have now gone too far. When they begin building their dynasties on the backs of the poor our Lord, no doubt, will be swift in His removal of their candlestick. He said to the church at Ephesus, "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works: or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent" (Rev. 2:5).

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steelerdude15 03-23-2010 02:25 AM

Re: IRS Gains Broader Powers Under Health Reform
As I've always said.... keep state and church separate... let's not tax or do anything to churches and/or pastors.

steelax04 03-23-2010 01:49 PM

Re: IRS Gains Broader Powers Under Health Reform
Funny how the IRS isn't getting any new funding or other mechanisms to collect the fees other than deducting it from your tax return... and that's if you are eligible for a return.

Godfather 03-23-2010 02:07 PM

Re: IRS Gains Broader Powers Under Health Reform

Originally Posted by steelax04 (Post 789187)
Funny how the IRS isn't getting any new funding or other mechanisms to collect the fees other than deducting it from your tax return... and that's if you are eligible for a return.

Yep...looks like the mandate doesn't have any teeth:

There's still a great deal wrong with this bill but it's not quite as bad as it looked at first.

SteelerEmpire 03-23-2010 03:39 PM

Now We Know Who Obama Is... What He's Capable Of...
I think the R's are underestimating their opponent (their President)... Obama. And here's why:

He was a younger African American (only 45) that chose to run for the highest office in the land.
It was said he was "untested", didn't have enough experience and "was not qualified" to be President.
He was not a national figure (I know I didn't know who he was) before he began his campaign for President in 2007.
He ended up raising more money than "any " campaign for President in the history of this nation... using a new, largely untested, tool for that level of a campaign... the internet.
He became the 'favorite candidate' on the international scene.
He beat the well oiled favorite, the "Clinton Machine", in the Primaries to become the Democratic nominee.
Became the first "other than White American" President in this nations history, coming seemingly out of nowhere... which caught many by surprise... and at only 46 years old.
When he got into office he was criticized for "doing too much at once" and people wanted him to "slow down"... as if his peers that he worked with could not keep up with him... wanted him to go at their 'slower pace'... friends called him, "the hardest working man in politics".
Won an "in advance" Nobel Prize simply based on his "promises"...
Proposed a major over-haul of an entire industry (health care) in the face of the 'very powerful' Health Care Lobby and the senators and congressmen that that industry basically controls.
Ran into several stumbling blocks like those nasty meetings and rallies by opponents. Losing the Democratic majority and the resultant media's repeating over and over that health care was dead. R's (and some D's) consistently saying, "start over from the beginning". And massive pressure by many in America to get on the economy. Seemed like everyone was saying abandon health care..... but no, he didn't...... During all this, and at only about his first year in office, we now have a revised health care system... a feat that was failed by 70 years of Presidents.
This victory showed a lot people that Obama is stern, hard, and a "political soldier" when he wants to get something done.

Now. If he can accomplish all of this, the R's are in for a difficult battle... Their opponent, although he is physically skinny, is no "light weight " by any means.
He comes across to the public as a simple regular guy. Off camera... quite different.
Now their is still over 7 months till the November elections...2 1/2 till the 2012 cycle. 7 months and 2 1/2 years respectively for Obama to work. This guy and the Dems still have more momentum going for them than the R's do at this point (though polls say that folks hate all of them at this point... but R's more than D's) because the only thing people still have to measure the R's by are the Bush years.

Long story short, the R's are in for a fire-fight..

Obama. Love him or hate him... you got to give it to him...

Polls are already starting to change. Check this out: LINK:

What Will The GOP Do Now ? LINK:

fansince'76 03-23-2010 04:11 PM

Re: Now We Know Who Obama Is... What He's Capable Of...

Originally Posted by SteelerEmpire (Post 789209)
Polls are already starting to change. Check this out: LINK:

Just wait until the effects of this POS legislation are fully felt.....

ricardisimo 03-23-2010 04:18 PM

Re: Now We Know Who Obama Is... What He's Capable Of...

Originally Posted by SteelerEmpire (Post 789209)
This victory showed a lot people that Obama is stern, hard, and a "political soldier" when he wants to get something done.

There is no reason for anyone on the Left to celebrate this "victory" anymore than there was under Clinton. People said exactly the same thing about Bill after his glorious "success" forcing NAFTA down everyone's throats. Six months later, everyone realized he was a major suckwad corporatist, and "the Left" locked themselves in their rooms for the next six years.

I think the briefest look at the stock market returns within the insurance industry should tell you everything you need to know about this legislation, and about who is "tough" and a "fighter", or a "political soldier" or whatever other nonsense is floating around out there. It's the corporate lobbyists, of course. No one's tougher than them, it seems.

RunWillieRun 03-23-2010 04:22 PM

Re: Now We Know Who Obama Is... What He's Capable Of...
The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

He is propped up by a loving media and has (had) super-majorities in both houses of Congress (If he was so powerful and amazing, why couldn't he help get a democrat elected, in Massachusetts, in Ted Kennedy's seat? Why couldn't he get all the Dems to vote for the healthcare bill? The only bipartisanship was the opposition! People are starting to see what the hopey-changey facade really means. He may be powerful with his majorities in congress, but he's losing the American people....and that is good thing for the American people. Maybe in the future, they'll look more closely when someone says they want to, "fundamentally transform" America. Those who bought the snake oil are realizing that the shit doesn't work...Now they're looking to punish the salesman (politically, that is).

In regards to the poll, I have no doubt he'll get a little short-term bump in the polls from passing this but then reality will set in when all of the bullshit in this bill gets exposed as fraudulent and based on lies and false promises.

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