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-   -   How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along... (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=92544)

Hawaii 5-0 10-18-2012 08:40 PM

How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...
 
A look at the Steelers’ offense and how Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along…

by Ian Rapoport

http://nfldotcom.files.wordpress.com...pg?w=199&h=300

Steelers fans… not happy. (Associated Press)

Through six weeks of the season, the Steelers are banged up, beaten up and 2-3. All, of course, is not well. That road loss to the Titans only underscored the issues. The defense is hurting, the offense hasn’t found its rhythm, they are currently looking up at the Bengals and Ravens in the AFC North.

Statistically, just like actually, it has been a struggle for the offense. Even with a talented quarterback like Ben Roethlisberger and WRs like Antonio Brown and Mike Wallace, they are ranked just 17th in scoring with 23.2 points and 16th in total offense with 360 yards. In other words, mediocre.

Now, there are some issues to point to as far as why the unit is inconsistent. Offensive line injuries have crushed them, and you can’t overlook that. Wallace’s holdout didn’t help. Neither have the injury issues of RB Rashard Mendenhall. But still, it is the responsibility of new offensive coordinator Todd Haley to produce, and it has yet to come together. Of course, the Haley-Roethlisberger relationship is one we have been discussing all season.

So, let’s discuss it.

I am told that the Haley-Roethlisberger relationship is what everyone expected. It is not great. They have butted heads. We’ve read about the much-publicized incident where Big Ben used last year’s signals, and that didn’t go over well. It also was indicative of a QB who didn’t trust or feel comfortable with the current system.

Before we continue the discussion on Haley — and everyone knew beforehand that he is as gruff as they come — let’s take a step back. How did the Steelers end up in this situation with an OC who clashes with the QB after Roethlisberger and Bruce Arians got along so well?

I’m told Steelers coach Mike Tomlin wanted to hire running backs coach Kirby Wilson as his offensive coordinator after last season. That was his intention. Yet Wilson was involved in a tragic incident with a fire, and no one could predict how his health would rebound. Sad to say, but the team had to essentially move on in its search. In fact, Wilson (the RBs coach, still) wears bandages from the incident.

While Wilson dealt with his health, Tomlin had to act. And so, on Feb. 7, he hired Haley. Tomlin knew there was nobody better available, thanks to Wilson’s situation. While Tomlin didn’t love Haley’s interview — it wasn’t great — he felt obligated to make the move. After all, Haley might be gone if he waited for Wilson to improve.

There is also the thought, I’m told, that Tomlin felt pressure from above, notably from Art Rooney II, to run a slightly tighter ship this year. Haley, who is intense, would theoretically help that. The issue, though, is that Big Ben and Haley have had their disagreements. With Wilson or Arians, Roethlisberger just meshed well. Thus far, it hasn’t happened with Haley.

All of which makes me wonder… If the trend of the Steelers’ offense continues, might we see Tomlin next year eventually promote Wilson, hiring the guy he always wanted to hire anyway? Could it be a one-year stay for Haley? It’s all up in the air.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2012/10/18/a-lo...getting-along/

Atlanta Dan 10-18-2012 08:57 PM

Re: How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawaii 5-0 (Post 1038938)
A look at the Steelers’ offense and how Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along…

by Ian Rapoport

http://nfldotcom.files.wordpress.com...pg?w=199&h=300

Steelers fans… not happy. (Associated Press)

Through six weeks of the season, the Steelers are banged up, beaten up and 2-3. All, of course, is not well. That road loss to the Titans only underscored the issues. The defense is hurting, the offense hasn’t found its rhythm, they are currently looking up at the Bengals and Ravens in the AFC North.

Statistically, just like actually, it has been a struggle for the offense. Even with a talented quarterback like Ben Roethlisberger and WRs like Antonio Brown and Mike Wallace, they are ranked just 17th in scoring with 23.2 points and 16th in total offense with 360 yards. In other words, mediocre.

Now, there are some issues to point to as far as why the unit is inconsistent. Offensive line injuries have crushed them, and you can’t overlook that. Wallace’s holdout didn’t help. Neither have the injury issues of RB Rashard Mendenhall. But still, it is the responsibility of new offensive coordinator Todd Haley to produce, and it has yet to come together. Of course, the Haley-Roethlisberger relationship is one we have been discussing all season.

So, let’s discuss it.

I am told that the Haley-Roethlisberger relationship is what everyone expected. It is not great. They have butted heads. We’ve read about the much-publicized incident where Big Ben used last year’s signals, and that didn’t go over well. It also was indicative of a QB who didn’t trust or feel comfortable with the current system.

Before we continue the discussion on Haley — and everyone knew beforehand that he is as gruff as they come — let’s take a step back. How did the Steelers end up in this situation with an OC who clashes with the QB after Roethlisberger and Bruce Arians got along so well?

I’m told Steelers coach Mike Tomlin wanted to hire running backs coach Kirby Wilson as his offensive coordinator after last season. That was his intention. Yet Wilson was involved in a tragic incident with a fire, and no one could predict how his health would rebound. Sad to say, but the team had to essentially move on in its search. In fact, Wilson (the RBs coach, still) wears bandages from the incident.

While Wilson dealt with his health, Tomlin had to act. And so, on Feb. 7, he hired Haley. Tomlin knew there was nobody better available, thanks to Wilson’s situation. While Tomlin didn’t love Haley’s interview — it wasn’t great — he felt obligated to make the move. After all, Haley might be gone if he waited for Wilson to improve.

There is also the thought, I’m told, that Tomlin felt pressure from above, notably from Art Rooney II, to run a slightly tighter ship this year. Haley, who is intense, would theoretically help that. The issue, though, is that Big Ben and Haley have had their disagreements. With Wilson or Arians, Roethlisberger just meshed well. Thus far, it hasn’t happened with Haley.

All of which makes me wonder… If the trend of the Steelers’ offense continues, might we see Tomlin next year eventually promote Wilson, hiring the guy he always wanted to hire anyway? Could it be a one-year stay for Haley? It’s all up in the air.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2012/10/18/a-lo...getting-along/

Another "reporter" blogging from his basement in his pajamas

He may be right but there is nothing here but a cut and paste of public information - I can think of a number of posters here who could put together the same report with better quotes - Rapoport forgot to throw out when Ben said Haley and he butted heads in Denver

Darkstorm05 10-18-2012 09:23 PM

Re: How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...
 
This is a non-story. With the Thursday game it's been a slow Steeler news week, so they're stirring the shit pot just for the sake of having something to blab about. A few wins will clear this up.

steelfury02 10-18-2012 09:31 PM

Re: How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...
 
Journalistic Integrity 101: When the only indication of author's sources is "I am told" and "we have read," don't trust it.

Not saying everything is just grand - but the media is officially steam rolling the Steelers right now, especially since they learned that "Big Ben left practice early derp a derp."

TRH 10-19-2012 08:24 AM

Re: How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by steelfury02 (Post 1038945)
Journalistic Integrity 101: When the only indication of author's sources is "I am told" and "we have read," don't trust it.

Not saying everything is just grand - but the media is officially steam rolling the Steelers right now, especially since they learned that "Big Ben left practice early derp a derp."



of course. Thats just the "blogger" making things up and attempting to offer his own opinion up as fact. Blogging is a real threat to legitimate sports journalism.
Everything i've heard and seen leads me to believe that they're getting along just fine.....if anything, much, much better than expected.

maddog78 10-19-2012 08:37 AM

Re: How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...
 
What was Kirby Wilson's resume? Coach of an average group of backs?

teegre 10-19-2012 09:07 AM

Re: How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maddog78 (Post 1039022)
What was Kirby Wilson's resume? Coach of an average group of backs?

I don't know about his résumé and/or qualifications, but one sportscenter anchor said that he was "on fire."

[Too soon?]

Darkstorm05 10-19-2012 09:25 AM

Re: How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by teegre (Post 1039028)
I don't know about his résumé and/or qualifications, but one sportscenter anchor said that he was "on fire."

[Too soon?]

Yes, too soon. That didn't stop me from laughing, though.

steelfury02 10-19-2012 09:31 AM

Re: How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...
 
Kirby's on Fiiiiiire!
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...3_1jo4HTCp5-PA

FanSince72 10-19-2012 09:46 AM

Re: How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...
 
You can deny it all you want but I think it's pretty obvious that there seems to be a conflict of interest between Ben and Haley and that's reflected in the level of play.

When a new coach or system is brought in, there will always be an adjustment period. During this time there will of course be mistakes and miscues but if the overall feeling is cooperative, you will tend to see much conversation between coach and QB along with a fair amount of "arm-around-the-shoulder" moments where things are explained and discussed.

I've seen none of that.

What I see are two ego's clashing with one another and Ben's ego seems to be the dominant one. I think he has a right to that since he's been to three SB's while Haley has just "been around".
Understandably, Haley wants to be respected and wants Ben and Co. to do what he tells them to do. But Ben - and I suspect more than a few other offensive players as well - see things differently and perhaps feel that they have been through enough things together to have a better handle on what will and will not work and resent an "outsider's" input, especially from someone who has had only minor success as an OC and even less as a HC. Maybe Ben was spoiled by Arians, but I think they had much respect for each other and there is definitely a fatherly / nurturing aspect to Arians that Ben responded to and which does not exist in Haley.

I'm not suggesting that Haley hasn't any good ideas or solid game plans, but rather that he either does not express them well or worse yet does not "click" with enough players for it to matter.

You can say all you want about "who's the boss?" and all that, but when it comes to a relationship such as that which exists between a coach and a player the "My-way-or-the-highway" approach rarely works and is especially toxic when preceded by a relationship that was more like father / son than coach / player.

I also think that Ben feels the he should be allowed to be more "in charge" of what happens on the field (Ala Peyton Manning) and I think he feels as if he's earned that right (something I believe as well).
But Haley's ego simply won't allow that and I think that's the essence of their relationship and a possible reason why, after a full preseason and now almost half a regular season, the offense hasn't yet shown signs of being pointed in any particular direction.

Being the coach of a pro QB - especially one with Ben's accomplishments, isn't like that of a typical boss / employee and like it or not someone like Ben needs to be coddled a bit and Haley is simply not the warm and fuzzy type that Arians was. I think that as long as Haley is here there may be limited progress but we'll never see that "One for all" type of thing because Haley simply doesn't have the personality that might inspire that kind of togetherness.


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