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-   -   Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D' (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=92593)

Atlanta Dan 10-20-2012 12:31 PM

Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'
 
I do not agree with the premise of this article that the Steelers D under Dick LeBeau has been consistently overhyped, but as opposed to the usual "LeBeau sucks" rant this article brings a lot of stats to ponder -excerpt below from a very detailed review

As a compiler of football statistics and a Pittsburgh native who has experienced every single high and low, here's the truth:

The Steelers' defense is vastly overrated, just like much of LeBeau’s coaching career has been ...

The most sustained coaching success LeBeau has had started when he returned to the Steelers in 2004. Since then Pittsburgh has gone 101-46 (.687) with two Super Bowl wins.

But two more important events happened in Pittsburgh in 2004: the drafting of franchise quarterback Ben Roethlisberger and Troy Polamalu moving into the starting lineup. Each player has been the team MVP on their side of the ball.

Since 2007, no defense has allowed fewer points or yards than the Steelers, ranking No. 1 in the league in fewest points allowed three times (No. 2 in 2007).

That sounds nice, but you have to ask yourself what you want from a defense.

Should it shut down the Cleveland Browns and their annually different quarterback twice a year, or do you want a defense that will show up against the best competition too? Do you want a defense that can finish the job, or a defense that’s going to fall apart in the clutch?

You can have all the top-ranked statistical defenses you want. If you cannot make a play to win a game or perform anywhere close to your usual level against the best of the best, then the only reality is your defense is overrated.

Stating the facts
Since 2007, Pittsburgh’s defense has allowed 20 game-winning drives in the fourth quarter or overtime, which is tied with Green Bay for the league's second most.


http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/49468506/ns/sports-nfl/

SteelerJay 10-20-2012 12:53 PM

Re: Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'
 
ouch! that hurts...

The author fails to understand the concept of the defense which, in addition to stopping the run, is keen to not give up the big play and to let the qb work his way down the field. The concept preached during Cowher's years was 'keep the receiver ahead of you', meaning, give the cushion, but make the tackle, and let the QB earn it by being accurate and making more throws. In the long run, the defense can be more successful with this approach. However, with quality QB's, this concept does not work as well.

tanda10506 10-20-2012 01:11 PM

Re: Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'
 
The type of stats that the author is using points out how the bed was shat in 2009, 2011, and this year. Nearly all the examples given were from those years. So while it's true that the team was not good in 2009 or 2011, that doesn't mean the defense has been overrated since 2007. I assure you that the 2010 defense, and especially the 2008 defense, was not overrated.

As for LeBeau, it's the same question that everyone asks of all the greats: "was it them or there players". The question is asked about the Pats w/ Brady and Bellicheck all the time. A great coach can do a lot but if there is a huge lack of talent on the field then the team will likely still struggle, and if a talented team is not coached properly and not disciplined then they will struggle too.

Atlanta Dan 10-20-2012 01:16 PM

Re: Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tanda10506 (Post 1039204)
The type of stats that the author is using points out how the bed was shat in 2009, 2011, and this year. Nearly all the examples given were from those years. So while it's true that the team was not good in 2009 or 2011, that doesn't mean the defense has been overrated since 2007. I assure you that the 2010 defense, and especially the 2008 defense, was not overrated..

Fact remains that the Steelers made the Super Bowl only in years they did not need to deal with Brady in the playoffs

In their Super Bowl runs in 2008 and 2010 they only played 2 top tier QBs - Warner in 2008 and Rodgers in 2010

FanSince72 10-20-2012 02:17 PM

Re: Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'
 
http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/...ps81889a23.jpg

harrison'samonster 10-20-2012 03:14 PM

Re: Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'
 
I think one important part of our D is having a players that can make big plays when needed.

Obviously Troy has been that player for us, and without him the whole scheme is questionable. Any NFL team should have players who can routinely make the easy plays. If you're counting on them making mistakes, that's fine, but you also need to have players that will take advantage of those mistakes.

Edman 10-20-2012 03:14 PM

Re: Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'
 
It's the truth. Our Defense was never that great.

The last time it was ever "good" was 2008. Since then, it's been above average at best. Proof that Statistics don't tell the story.

The fact that this Defense falls to shit without Troy Polamalu is proof of it's real mediocrity. We have 11 players on Defense, but we had one player who made big plays (Troy). Oh, and you can't answer for the shitload of game-winning drives and the many times it's made mediocre Quarterbacks look incredible since 2009. Cassell, Gradkowski, Hasselbeck, Palmer, Tebow... the embarrassing list goes on. Do we not forget the near embarrassment against Fitzpatrick in Buffalo in 2010? If Steve Johnson doesn't drop the pass, we lose and don't get a home game.

The last time I saw the Steelers Defense consistently good pre-2008 was 2004 and 2005. They weren't dominant, but they always played well in crunch time. Those Defenses never collapsed in the 4th quarter.

Edman 10-20-2012 03:27 PM

Re: Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelerJay (Post 1039202)
ouch! that hurts...

The author fails to understand the concept of the defense which, in addition to stopping the run, is keen to not give up the big play and to let the qb work his way down the field. The concept preached during Cowher's years was 'keep the receiver ahead of you', meaning, give the cushion, but make the tackle, and let the QB earn it by being accurate and making more throws. In the long run, the defense can be more successful with this approach. However, with quality QB's, this concept does not work as well.

2009, 2011 and this year is proof that you don't exactly need a "quality QB" to beat this Defense.

harrison'samonster 10-20-2012 03:48 PM

Re: Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'
 
I would have to disagree with one thing Edman, 08 and 04 defenses were great. I wouldn't just say that they were good. But that's my opinion.

Twentyvalve 10-20-2012 03:51 PM

Re: Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'
 
What? Were we not ranked historically at the top of the league for the last umpteen years? I think as fans we are so critical we can lose sight of fact and reality. I think you are blending this year with seasons past - no comparison. The Steelers, historically, kicked ass on D. Please post stats that rates or D as mediocre over the last 5-6 years. Not individual game states, but season stats. I will be surprised if you find us in the bottom half of the league I will be surprised.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edman (Post 1039208)
It's the truth. Our Defense was never that great.

The last time it was ever "good" was 2008. Since then, it's been above average at best. Proof that Statistics don't tell the story.

The fact that this Defense falls to shit without Troy Polamalu is proof of it's real mediocrity. We have 11 players on Defense, but we had one player who made big plays (Troy). Oh, and you can't answer for the shitload of game-winning drives and the many times it's made mediocre Quarterbacks look incredible since 2009. Cassell, Gradkowski, Hasselbeck, Palmer, Tebow... the embarrassing list goes on. Do we not forget the near embarrassment against Fitzpatrick in Buffalo in 2010? If Steve Johnson doesn't drop the pass, we lose and don't get a home game.

The last time I saw the Steelers Defense consistently good pre-2008 was 2004 and 2005. They weren't dominant, but they always played well in crunch time. Those Defenses never collapsed in the 4th quarter.



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