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-   -   "FIRE THE TRAINING STAFF!!!" (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=94234)

tony hipchest 11-28-2012 12:03 PM
"FIRE THE TRAINING STAFF!!!"
 
:shout:-...and conditioning coaches!!!

ive gotten so tired of hearing this crap the past 2 years. BTSC has a great piece people should read to educate themselves-

Steelers Injuries: An in-depth look at reasons behind the 83 player games missed (and counting) in 2012

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com...t-games-missed

Quote:
4. Bad conditioning. This is the one that many fans are currently questioning. What the heck our are trainers doing, or not doing, that is leading to this current rash of injuries? Football training is a curious topic and one that many have a strong opinion about.

First, let's dispense with the obvious: if a player is not willing to train their body there is nothing the trainers can do for them. Jim Wexell just wrote an article about how Keenan Lewis has finally started to heed the advice of Ike Taylor and started lifting on Mondays.

Really.

It took this long for a professional athlete to realize that he should probably take care of his body. This cannot be blamed on the trainers or the coaches. If one of the trainers could force Lewis to do something even though Lewis does not receive some immediate tangible benefit from it, then they shouldn't be a trainer. They should be in the Middle East negotiating a peace settlement. Coaches can make an athlete go to therapy, but they can't make them work hard while there. Remember, this is the essence of sports. If everyone was the gold standard, it would not be the gold standard would it?

The best trainers can do is design an excellent conditioning program. Do our trainers do that? No, but not for the reason you think. No one designs a program anymore. Everything is individualized. A trainer does an individual assessment of each athlete, sees where they have weak points, and then designs a program to address those points.

A good example of this to consider is Buddy Morris. Buddy was the legendary strength coach of the Pitt Panthers during Pitt's heyday of the 70s and 80s. When Butch Davis got the Cleveland job, he hired Morris. At that time, Morris had built his reputation on injury prevention. He had a lot of research and new exercise to combat injuries. If you walked into one of Buddy's workouts, you would see some athletes doing things like terminal knee extensions, rotator cuff work, lots and lots of core work (Buddy really brought the core stuff to the forefront), medicine ball exercises, tissue therapy, and a myriad of other things.
Guess what? None of it worked. The Browns were devastated by injuries and Davis was fired.

I'm not saying that Davis was fired because of the injuries, but the interim coach that replaced him did. He basically threw Morris under the bus. In what might be the only time in football history this happened, the strength coach called a press conference. Buddy actually made a cut-up of every injury suffered that year. His point was this: football is a high collision sport. There is no way to avoid injury. The best you can hope for is to minimize them and treat them as fast as possible.

To which, one could plausibly retort "In that case, what the heck is the point of having a strength coach and/or athletic trainers?" After a season in which the Steelers special teams were not special, a reporter asked Tomlin how he could square that fact with the amount of practice time the Steelers spent on special teams. His answer was, "Imagine how bad we would've been if we didn't practice special teams all that time."

Lokki 11-28-2012 12:35 PM
Re: "FIRE THE TRAINING STAFF!!!"
 
YEAH!

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...2g9pBNwa0giumQ

TRH 11-28-2012 12:40 PM
Re: "FIRE THE TRAINING STAFF!!!"
 
i don't disagree with the article at all - i'm a trainer myself - i don't need to educate myself - and the "will" of the individual/player is key. The only thing i WILL say...is that all trainers are not created equal. The conditioning job is to not only 'condition' but to do the best to prevent injury as well.
Are they doing our team justice? How are they in comparison with the rest of the team's trainers in the league? Can we do and hire better? Are they working with each and every player at a better-than-satisfactory level?
These are questions that we can only guess or very loosely debate since we're not in the facility. Can trainers prevent injuries? No. But the amount of them (and this goes back through all of last year too) here definitely makes one wonder, though.

steelfury02 11-28-2012 12:47 PM
Re: "FIRE THE TRAINING STAFF!!!"
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRH (Post 1055350)
i don't disagree with the article at all - i'm a trainer myself - i don't need to educate myself - and the "will" of the individual/player is key. The only thing i WILL say...is that all trainers are not created equal. The conditioning job is to not only 'condition' but to do the best to prevent injury as well.
Are they doing our team justice? How are they in comparison with the rest of the team's trainers in the league? Can we do and hire better? Are they working with each and every player at a better-than-satisfactory level?
These are questions that we can only guess or very loosely debate since we're not in the facility. Can trainers prevent injuries? No. But the amount of them (and this goes back through all of last year too) here definitely makes one wonder, though.
i'm no expert - but - it is maddening. Something has to be looked at. Fault doesn't fix the problem - but it still needs to at least be addressed. The best part of this piece is about the will of the player. These guys aren't the smartest in the world - it wouldn't shock me to find out that it has equally, if not more to do with the player's willingness to understand and commit.

Gilbert, Gilbert, Gilbert

Lokki 11-28-2012 12:55 PM
Re: "FIRE THE TRAINING STAFF!!!"
 
Some of it is just pure bad luck for us. Our own lineman taking out other linemen by falling into the back of their legs. Ben getting a fluke injury. Troy having the most severe and mysterious calf injury in history. Leftwich hurting himself while running for a TD.

tony hipchest 11-28-2012 02:00 PM
Re: "FIRE THE TRAINING STAFF!!!"
 
the steelers are a 1st class organization from the top on down. they always have one of the best coaches. colbert is a leaging GM in the league. omar kahn is perhaps the leagues best contract negotiator. the worlds leading expert on concussions and neuroscientist is their team physician consulted by the rest of the league and leagues worldwide. they have top of the line traing facilities. i mean hell they have the university of sports medecine at their disposal

there is absolutely NO indication that the steelers would half ass it and not put a premium on a training staff, look the other way and settle for second best. i thought steelerfans knew our team better.

but of course the fan's psychology NEEDs to find someone or something to blame for this-

83 Player Games Missed in 2012

David DeCastro 11

Sean Spence 11 (IR)

David Johnson 11 (IR)

Troy Polamalu 9

Rashard Mendenhall 7

Marcus Gilbert 6 (IR)

Stevenson Sylvester 6

Antonio Brown 3

James Harrison 3

Chris Carter 3 (IR)

Ben Roethlisberger 2

LaMarr Woodley 2

Isaac Redman 2

Ryan Clark 1

Maurkice Pouncey 1

Byron Leftwich 1

Jerricho Cotchery 1

Jonathan Dwyer 1

Brandon Johnson 1

Mike Adams 1

interesting were the comments on gilbert because that is the tongue in cheek conclusion the author of linked article comes up with-

Quote:
Conclusion. It's all Marcus Gilbert's fault. Yep, that correct. I just wrote 1400 words and that is the best I got. You betcha. Here is the thing. Bad technique leads to getting beat. Getting beat leads to someone getting tackled. When Gilbert gets beat, someone is usually getting tackled on the back of someone's legs. Remember that kid in high school that the coach refused to put in unless you were losing by 50? The coach wasn't being an idiot, he knew that the kid would probably get three others hurt. At least. My conspiracy theory is that he's not really that hurt. The Steelers just refuse to put him on the field until camp next year.

As a matter of fact, I'm shocked Legursky was not on the injury report this week.
:tap:

im not sure that isnt that far fetched, but then again, i beleive that gilbert is pretty much a turd who never has put in the extra work in the first place. :noidea:

Riddle_Of_Steel 11-28-2012 02:08 PM
Re: "FIRE THE TRAINING STAFF!!!"
 
but of course the fan's psychology NEEDs to find someone or something to blame for this

What this thread is missing is a comparison of the number of player games missed by other teams. It seems that we are losing guys at a much faster rate than other teams-- and if that is the case, we can play the blame game all we want, make excuses for the training staff, blame it on teh players, etc. etc. but it does not change the fact that something is not being done correctly as far as strength and conditioning.

Are we trying to say it is just coincidence, the number of injuries we have had in the last 3 seasons? It is all the players' fault?

tony hipchest 11-28-2012 02:38 PM
Re: "FIRE THE TRAINING STAFF!!!"
 
it seems WE are losing players at a faster rate because steelers are predisposed to steelers information and news and simply dont pay attention to other teams (let alone the league as a whole) as closely.

as they say WE " live in a fishbowl.

our oh so knowledgable fans, who like to constantly crow and pat themselves on the back as being the MOST knowledgable, TOTALLY discount the fact that the steelers also play a more physical brand of football than the rest of the league, yet the same fans want to brag about our team being the toughest and the baddest, while the majority of other teams play a more finesse style.

joey porter called the colts out for that shit years ago in '05.

every team has gone through a stroke of bad luck at some point and time. some teams are just more lucky enough to have kurt warner or tom brady sitting on the bench when that time arrives.

steelerchad 11-28-2012 02:51 PM
Re: "FIRE THE TRAINING STAFF!!!"
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest (Post 1055388)
the steelers are a 1st class organization from the top on down. they always have one of the best coaches. colbert is a leaging GM in the league. omar kahn is perhaps the leagues best contract negotiator. the worlds leading expert on concussions and neuroscientist is their team physician consulted by the rest of the league and leagues worldwide. they have top of the line traing facilities. i mean hell they have the university of sports medecine at their disposal

there is absolutely NO indication that the steelers would half ass it and not put a premium on a training staff, look the other way and settle for second best. i thought steelerfans knew our team better.

but of course the fan's psychology NEEDs to find someone or something to blame for this-

83 Player Games Missed in 2012

David DeCastro 11

Sean Spence 11 (IR)

David Johnson 11 (IR)

Troy Polamalu 9

Rashard Mendenhall 7

Marcus Gilbert 6 (IR)

Stevenson Sylvester 6

Antonio Brown 3

James Harrison 3

Chris Carter 3 (IR)

Ben Roethlisberger 2

LaMarr Woodley 2

Isaac Redman 2

Ryan Clark 1

Maurkice Pouncey 1

Byron Leftwich 1

Jerricho Cotchery 1

Jonathan Dwyer 1

Brandon Johnson 1

Mike Adams 1

interesting were the comments on gilbert because that is the tongue in cheek conclusion the author of linked article comes up with-



:tap:

im not sure that isnt that far fetched, but then again, i beleive that gilbert is pretty much a turd who never has put in the extra work in the first place. :noidea:
Each guy is different. At first I thought maybe it was because we have a lot of 30+ starters. But there's a ton of young guys going down.

RB's always get hurt on every team. It's just a matter of time. O-Line, more of the same.
Troy has been injury prone as he's gotten older. Wear and tear.

teegre 11-28-2012 04:51 PM
Re: "FIRE THE TRAINING STAFF!!!"
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest (Post 1055401)
the steelers also play a more physical brand of football than the rest of the league, yet the same fans want to brag about our team being the toughest and the baddest, while the majority of other teams play a more finesse style.
I once heard Chad Brown say something along the lines of "The Steelers ram their heads into people harder than anyone else. It knocks the other team down, but it eventually takes a toll on their own players, as well."


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