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-   -   GREG COSELL: Haley & Big Ben (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=95143)

teegre 12-20-2012 11:27 AM

GREG COSELL: Haley & Big Ben
 
Greg Cosell was on The HERD (Colin Cowherd’s ESPN radio show) this morning. Cosell is a tape guru, who tells it as it is: no sugar coating; not stats; just tape… and, as Cowherd says, the tape does not lie.

Cowherd asked Cosell about the relationship between Haley & Big Ben.

Haley said that he talked to one of Big Ben’s former coaches, and that that coach applauded Haley for trying to lengthen Big Ben’s career. As that coach said, and Cosell agreed, “Even as big as Big Ben is, all of those hits take a toll.”

Cosell said that the plays that Haley was calling were working well (aside from the fumbles, which is another story in & of itself). They were keeping BB upright and not sacked… and BB & the offense was productive.

The problem arose when the O-line got injured/shuffled, and then the running game suffered, and BB got hurt, and they just haven’t gotten back on track.

But, Cosell was adamant that Haley was & is still making the right calls, but that injuries (O-line, BB), no running game, and turnovers have led to a slowed offense.

SUMMATION
Cosell averred that Haley is indeed making the right calls, in order to prolong BB’s career, as well as make BB & the offense better. .

austinfrench76 12-20-2012 01:15 PM

Re: GREG COSELL: Haley & Big Ben
 
Couldn't agree more with Cosell. More than anything, Turnovers has killed this year. Specifically by the WR's. Unbelieveable!

Cyphon 12-20-2012 01:22 PM

Re: GREG COSELL: Haley & Big Ben
 
I am very happy with Haleys offense to this point. Especially after what I watched with Arians. The biggest problem we have had are injuries and execution, not play calling.

steelfury02 12-20-2012 01:30 PM

Re: GREG COSELL: Haley & Big Ben
 
4 things for this offense to click and score enough points

O-line has to stay healthy

RBs need to get positive yardage, even just 3-4 yards, falling forward to get teams to respect it enough

WRs need to POSSESS the ball

YAC. I can't repeat that last one enough. IMO - we don't need to be bombing it on 3rd and short. Get the receivers the ball, hope they possess it, and let them run away with it. Consistent 3 to 5 step drops and release is the name of the game. Let the receivers do the work.

SteelersCanada 12-20-2012 01:30 PM

Re: GREG COSELL: Haley & Big Ben
 
I have a couple problems with Haley's offense. I think what needs to be addressed first and foremost is the lack of gameplanning around Mike Wallace. Why is he running intermediate and underneath routes when he has the talent and speed to blow the top off a defense? The same could be said for Manny and AB - we should be running a vertical offense that gives Ben the chance to throw it down field more often. I'm not saying I'm completely against the 'dink and dunk' that he's implemented, but we have talented WRs and we're not using them properly. We've invested in our offensive line heavily the past few years to protect Roethlisberger and his offense often times feels like it's going overboard with keeping Ben safe. He isn't made of glass and he isn't going to change how he plays - let the receivers run and let Ben make things happen the way only Ben can.

The other major gripe I have about his offense is the lack of running outside the tackles. Look, when Rainey is on the field, he shouldn't be running it up the middle. Let him bounce it outside and make a play in open space instead of having to fight through linebackers and defensive linemen. I don't understand the big fad here in Pittsburgh of "run it up the middle! ya!" when that shit isn't working and hasn't for years.

Despite the weaknesses in his gameplan, it's still a step up from watching Arians call plays.

JeromeBetties63 12-20-2012 01:35 PM

Re: GREG COSELL: Haley & Big Ben
 
Please lower the number of times we throw wide receiver screens. Less is more when it comes to that play. It can work if we don't use it so stinking often. Ben was getting sacked less. That's a very good thing. However, he can't be hogtied. They need to strike a balance.

teegre 12-20-2012 02:11 PM

Re: GREG COSELL: Haley & Big Ben
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelersCanada (Post 1067072)
I have a couple problems with Haley's offense. I think what needs to be addressed first and foremost is the lack of gameplanning around Mike Wallace. Why is he running intermediate and underneath routes when he has the talent and speed to blow the top off a defense? The same could be said for Manny and AB - we should be running a vertical offense that gives Ben the chance to throw it down field more often. I'm not saying I'm completely against the 'dink and dunk' that he's implemented, but we have talented WRs and we're not using them properly. We've invested in our offensive line heavily the past few years to protect Roethlisberger and his offense often times feels like it's going overboard with keeping Ben safe. He isn't made of glass and he isn't going to change how he plays - let the receivers run and let Ben make things happen the way only Ben can.

The other major gripe I have about his offense is the lack of running outside the tackles. Look, when Rainey is on the field, he shouldn't be running it up the middle. Let him bounce it outside and make a play in open space instead of having to fight through linebackers and defensive linemen. I don't understand the big fad here in Pittsburgh of "run it up the middle! ya!" when that shit isn't working and hasn't for years.

Despite the weaknesses in his gameplan, it's still a step up from watching Arians call plays.

DEEP TO WALLACE
That's the one area where I think Haley has "failed" (for lack of a better word). I think that even if Wallace is only a "one-trick pony" (which I do not really think is accurate), it is one hell of a trick. Ergo, throw it deeeeep to him five or six times per game, and have him run deep ten to twelve times per game. If nothing else, it makes the FS play waaaay deep.

Of course, that said, BB is not the best at throwing the deep ball (I guess that he isn't perfect). And, of course, there is the fact that Wallace will drop half of those passes.

Math...

BB hits Wallace in stride once in every three attempts (2 of 6 attempts)... Wallace catches one in every two good throws (1 of 2)... carry the one... one long reception per game.

Again, even if they only connect once per game, the number of attempts alone would push the FS back.

RUNNING OUTSIDE
I, too, wonder why that is.

Maybe they don't have the OGs to pull & block to the outside... (El-Gonzo Jackson, please tell us if that is so).

Maybe the RBs can't get outside... BUT, Rainey sure as heck can. Hmmm...

I don't know why they don't run outside. Good question.

MAIN GOALIf his main goal was to prolong BB's career and/or make BB a more effective passer, Haley has accomplished his goal.

Rotorhead 12-20-2012 02:20 PM

The problem with trying to run Rainey ourside is everyone in the world knows je wont be able to run up the middle so they cover the outside, he has been completely inneffective the few time we have run it outside.

Riddle_Of_Steel 12-20-2012 02:58 PM

Re: GREG COSELL: Haley & Big Ben
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelersCanada (Post 1067072)
I have a couple problems with Haley's offense. I think what needs to be addressed first and foremost is the lack of gameplanning around Mike Wallace. Why is he running intermediate and underneath routes when he has the talent and speed to blow the top off a defense? The same could be said for Manny and AB - we should be running a vertical offense that gives Ben the chance to throw it down field more often.

I agree with you-- somewhat. What you are asking for here, is Bruce Arians to come back to the Burgh.

The goal of Haley's offense is to take the high-percentage gains and keep Ben from holding the ball trying to force something downfield.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelersCanada (Post 1067072)
I'm not saying I'm completely against the 'dink and dunk' that he's implemented, but we have talented WRs and we're not using them properly.

Although he is quick, sending Antonio Brown deep is not using him the correct way. He is a possession receiver, who specializes in YAC.

Mike Wallace's talent is single-fold-- he can run really fast. Can't catch, can't run clean routes. Sure, send him deep every play. For what it's worth-- teams don't fear him as uch anymore. he does not draw the double coverage he did in past years. They know he will drop it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelersCanada (Post 1067072)
We've invested in our offensive line heavily the past few years to protect Roethlisberger and his offense often times feels like it's going overboard with keeping Ben safe. He isn't made of glass and he isn't going to change how he plays - let the receivers run and let Ben make things happen the way only Ben can.

Ala Bruce Arians......

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelersCanada (Post 1067072)
The other major gripe I have about his offense is the lack of running outside the tackles. Look, when Rainey is on the field, he shouldn't be running it up the middle. Let him bounce it outside and make a play in open space instead of having to fight through linebackers and defensive linemen. I don't understand the big fad here in Pittsburgh of "run it up the middle! ya!" when that shit isn't working and hasn't for years.

Despite the weaknesses in his gameplan, it's still a step up from watching Arians call plays.

^^^ This for sure.

The reason they keep running it up the middle, is because other than the miniature Rainey, they do not have an outside run threat except the one that has been inactive for the last three weeks.

Ricco Suavez 12-20-2012 03:14 PM

Re: GREG COSELL: Haley & Big Ben
 
I liked the way Haleys offense was progressing after about the 4th or 5th game. If I had any complaints they were and are, not enough shots down field with the deep ball, and running way too much on first down. Now as far as using Wallace as a deep threat I agree, but only to an extent. Using him too often, becomes predictable and will tire our true deep threat out during the course of a game. On the other hand his presence should draw a lot of double coverage which will open the underneath routes up more. Brown should be used for deep routes also to keep the secondary honest.


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